Proposition for those looking for that custom edge...

[mobsterboy]

Ok, lets start this whole idea/proposition/lucrativeconcept with three warnings. One, there’s no real guarantee this will not just crack, blow up or just keel over. Two, this is not going to be cheap. With this being a brand new idea, a preorder will be the way to pay. I know there have been preorder fiascos in the past, but with such a high risk project that will be my first actual project I fully put together, I do not have the funding to actually put this project in motion myself…which is why I come to you, AO.

My idea: Automag Paintball parts out of Lexan. Now let’s talk risks. First off, I have no real clue as to whether this will fully work out, but I am very certain that due to the nature of Lexan, it should be fine and dandy. My ultimate goal is to make Xmag bodies, but I am willing to settle for either a Karta or a Chord Body. Now whether Colin and friends at Deadly Wind are up to allowing the use of their current designs is a totally different mess.

Here’s some upsides to this. Lexan is, well from what I’ve viewed, very strong, workable, and heat resistant as well as having high tensile force tests. This link might help some understand what it really is and why I see it as an optimum raw material for parts. http://www.sdplastics.com/polycarb.html

Now the cost. Well, the cost will be interesting to figure out. Basically the more people we get to commit, the less it will be. For instance. If the min preorder for 1 is going to be 600 for the whole shebang, 5 could possibly be 450 each, 10 could be in the range of 400, 20 being in the area of 350, and 30 could be very well 300 each.

As far as coloring of these things go. Ive seen a brush on “anodizer” of sorts that soaks into the lexan, but don’t quote me on that.

Questions? I’ll try and comment on this to the best of my knowledge. I haven’t done a ton of research on this, but if you think, “hey what the hell, I’ll go for it”, this project is for you. And again, these would be trial runs. As of now, everything is a variable to me, but that’s how it is when you go exploring.

And if this is just a total flop, I could consider trying to at least meet a minimum order by doing rails, foregrips, emag battery housings and such. Everything’s a possibility with enough support.

[geekwarrior]

it says it holds up to high impact, but what about the wear of the bolt being cycled thousands of times? i'm ignorant, may be a dumb question :rolleyes:

edit: from the site

Wear factor against steel 40 psi 50fpm : 2500x10~10
Coefficient of friction 40psi 50fpm : 0.38 Dynamic

[personman]

glhf

[DaveSM]

1- the maximum tensile strenght is 3,2 times weaker then aluminium
2- It's UV sensitive so playing outside would shorten it's usefull life and after some time it even may snap.

If you want to use it as a body you will still have to use a steel ring and clip as the aluminium body. I wouldn't recommend Lexan for the main body because of wear and reduced mechanical properties over time when exposed to UV. If you want to make parts out of Lexan then you should do grip frames, grip panels and AM/MM rails or RT PRO rails. Lexan shouldn't be used to hold any pressurized gaz as you would have to recalculate dimensions on the part if you don't want it to blow up on you when you are tucked tight on it in a bunker.

So my advice as student in mechanical engineering, you may use it but I really don't recommend it and if you want to get optimal results you willl have to change a few dimensions on the parts to stay within a correct safety factor.

[mobsterboy]

ok, these are kinda the same things i hit with Shawn while chatting with him about it. I kinda knew id have to use a steel ring insert on it, like most ule bodies.

Dave, I kinda understood the value of tensile strength, but just by looking at the numbers and thinking the basics of tensile strength is the maximum pressure (basically) the part can take without taking permanent deformation. Now if its things like a karta or a xmag body, thats definitely gonna be a lot thicker than a ule body. Assuming that, the ule, as thin as it is, has anyone actually done anythign to kill one of those ON THE FIELD? :ninja edit: so is the strength really an issue? I mean, i dont see too many ppl running these over with their cars to see what happens. With a body, im not aware its actually holding air. I dont know if this was too general, but im hoping just to do mag parts. I knew that no air could be held, and thats fine with me. when i said foregrips, i meant non gasthru... The UV part...could that be combated with the "anno" coating?

personman...do you ever make sense? GLHF? Good Luck....

[Rudz]

i would suggest battery packs, and triggers first, maybe rails, and move on from there, i would be intrested in battery packs, maybe even a full marker if the project is a success

[athomas]

The body, while strong enough, would physically wear due to the back and forth motion of the bolt and spring. Lexan doesn't have good wear properties. You could combat this by using a metal insert where the bolt and spring resides. Then, the metal insert would protect the body in that area.

[the mag guy]

The body concept is pretty sweet. I'm pretty sure there are different grades of Lexan so you'd havr to make sure you got the good one. My reasoning behing my statemenet is that I once had a computer case made of entirely lexan. One day last semester, in a freak accident, I watched it fall from a shelf about 3/12 ft off the ground. My poor computer broke into 40+ pieces! The two biggest side were not shattered, but the attachments brok off those. Btw the lexan that was used on my comp was barely over a quarter inch thick.

My point is not that someone might drop their marker from 4 ft, but that a player running and diving into a bunker (roughly the same distance) could possibly shatter their marker.

I think I agree with DaveSM about resizing the body, but not due to pressure, you're just gonna have to make the sucker thicker than you initially thought.

Oh, and cracks. When Lexan gets a tiny crack in it, you might as well kiss it goodbye. Its just like if a window gets a crack in it. It may be small, but if any other force acts on it, it either gets larger or breaks entirely.

So, a crack from a dive then repetitive shooting and the possibility of the marker getting shot makes me think the lexan would break a lot more easily.

I'm not trying to bring down your idea at all, I'd be interested in the idea if it gets off the ground. I wouldn't mind being a contributor of smaller amounts of funds now and then if we could get all the details banged out. Just think if everyone here donated like $X.XX with the promise of however much they donated off the price of the body. Some people here might just throw a few bucks at you to donate. i dunno.

I like the idea

[Pacifist_Farmer]

The tensile strength is the point at which once crossed the piece will neck and break, the yeild strength represents the point at which permanent deformation occurs. Yeild strength is often 1/3 to 1/2 of the UTS.

*This being polycarbonate we would need to do more research as to its performance, the yield for lexan is probably very close to the UTS*


I think the only viable way to do this is with a steel or aluminum insert, thin walled but designed to hold all the moving parts and pressurized volumes. Place that in a lexan, slug like body with whatever milling you please. The lexan reinforcement will allow you to use a much thinner wall on the metal.

[the mag guy]

makes sense, you would have only been able to see the bolt move a couple times anyway before it scratched the crud outta the lexan. So I agree, an aluminum insert would be the way to go.


You could run some el wire or led's on your gun if you were runnin electro! :rofl: that would be so ghetto. I wouldnt mind seeing it done though. Put some black light el wire spiraling around where the paintball sits to get it glowin all fancy like! once again an entertaining yet completley impractical idea form me. sorry guys.

[CoolHand]

ok, these are kinda the same things i hit with Shawn while chatting with him about it. I kinda knew id have to use a steel ring insert on it, like most ule bodies.

Dave, I kinda understood the value of tensile strength, but just by looking at the numbers and thinking the basics of tensile strength is the maximum pressure (basically) the part can take without taking permanent deformation. Now if its things like a karta or a xmag body, thats definitely gonna be a lot thicker than a ule body. Assuming that, the ule, as thin as it is, has anyone actually done anythign to kill one of those ON THE FIELD? :ninja edit: so is the strength really an issue? I mean, i dont see too many ppl running these over with their cars to see what happens. With a body, im not aware its actually holding air. I dont know if this was too general, but im hoping just to do mag parts. I knew that no air could be held, and thats fine with me. when i said foregrips, i meant non gasthru... The UV part...could that be combated with the "anno" coating?

personman...do you ever make sense? GLHF? Good Luck....

Read Pacifist_Farmer's post, and take it to heart. UTS is NOT something you want to design to.

Most parts in the world operate at about a 3:1 factor of safety. Meaning, you take the yield stress (NOT the UTS) of the material, then divide that by three. That number is your permissible stress in service.

Also, polycarbonate is VERY sensitive to stress risers, meaning that threaded holes are basically impossible. Every sharp inside corner or scratch is a stress riser, and it will start a crack that will very quickly develop into a feature that will render the part useless (IE, it will break in two).

Trust me on this one, we used to machine polycarb for water block tops, and it was basically pointless. Machined fine, but once assembled, would shatter into about 8 pieces after a week of setting on the shelf. There is just too much residual stress in the material to cut stress risers into it and expect it to live.

And, on a final note, polycarb will turn white when you machine it, scratch it, or clean it with a solvent. So any work you do turns the part a milky white color. In order to get it back to clear, it takes a crap ton of sanding and buffing, of every single surface you machined, inside and out.

I don't understand the fascination with clear parts anyway, but regardless of why you want them, it simply isn't possible to "port" over a design from aluminum to polycarb. If you want to build one at all, be prepared for it to be massive, and for it to last about a week, or one day of play (if that), whichever comes first.

[rtjrom]

If you really want to know more about clear parts i would try and get in contact with Doc cause i know he used to make clear parts kits for phantoms and i never heard any trouble about them and they looked really nice. i also agree with the steel or aluminum insert i think that would take down the stress on the lexan itself making it far more durable and i still think it would look really nice.

[p8ntball72]

Hit up "haveblue" and the "Tinker Guild" for info. :ninja:
http://www.haveblue.org/chrismader/misc%20pictures/WGP/clear_cocker.jpg

[personman]

personman...do you ever make sense? GLHF? Good Luck....
Good luck, have fun :)

[the mag guy]

Hit up "haveblue" and the "Tinker Guild" for info. :ninja:
http://www.haveblue.org/chrismader/misc%20pictures/WGP/clear_cocker.jpg
:eek: :clap:

I bet that it hasnt been fired tho, b/c as soon as you do it will scratch like crazy. anyway awesome pic

[mobsterboy]

K, the body might have to wait till i test just how well machine grade lexan will withstand shots, dives and such. I'll inquire about other items. Whats the interest in battery packs?

[Pneumagger]

they make delrin turtle cocker bodies that people actually use. But delrin has alot more yeild and resistance to stress isers than does polycarbonate.

[ttink]

Well mag bodies dont actually hold the pressure do they? So why not just make like 4 metal guide rods in the body where the bolt would move, and not have the bolt touch the Lexan at all? You could leave a very small gap between the bolt and thebody so it would not scratch, but the bolt would still work because of the guide rods. Im just throwing this out there, I'm only 15 so I really dont know what im talking about when it comes to Lexan, but i figured I'd give my input.

[slade]

...well. something tells me this wont end very well.

so, how are you planning to have this machined, anyway? i doubt you will have access to the CNC code from AGD europe or deadlywind. are you planning to write your own code, or pay someone to do it for you? do you have a machine shop lined up?

i know you know the parts could fail, but id say the failure is more likely than you think. you said it could break from stress, which is one concern. wear would be more of a worry for me. lexan scratches rather easily. also you have to take into account the fact that lexan is rather flexible. remember, mags require very tight tolerances. not only will the parts have to be machined to tight tolerances, but you cannot have flex in the parts. there can be enough problems with just a ULE body as it is. so even if you get a working body that does not crack or wear out very quickly, it will likely have more problems than a poorly tuned first run x-mag that was left out fully disassembled in a rainstorm.

acid rainstorm.

battery packs would probably sell and would be much less of a problem. you would still have to worry about cracks/stripped threads though, and the battery isnt nearly as interesting to see as the bolt of a mag. you could make a test piece to see strength, and then if all goes well write a short CNC program.

hmm, this reminds me, whatever happened to that vert emag frame that kid on here was going to make?


Most parts in the world operate at about a 3:1 factor of safety. Meaning, you take the yield stress (NOT the UTS) of the material, then divide that by three. That number is your permissible stress in service.
you should have told that to that mechanical engineering professor i had last summer. something came up and i said that a lot of the time parts are tested to 2-3 times their operating stress, and he said that never happens, yield stress is generally somewhere around 20% more than operating stress.

[Troen]

you should have told that to that mechanical engineering professor i had last summer. something came up and i said that a lot of the time parts are tested to 2-3 times their operating stress, and he said that never happens, yield stress is generally somewhere around 20% more than operating stress.
ah, the education system these days.

[slade]

ah, the education system these days.
hmm, i forgot to add the part that both are probably used in different situations, and neither is really completely correct.

[Ace12GA]

Design stress parameters are variable depending on the type of loading in general. I believe a machinery's handbook has tables in regard to design factors for various materials and loading situations. If that doesn't, a good book on materials science probably would. Its been a while since college, so don't quote me on that stuff.

[CoolHand]

hmm, i forgot to add the part that both are probably used in different situations, and neither is really completely correct.

There is no "correct" for factor of safety.

It all boils down to how much risk is acceptable.

In the mining industry, it is not uncommon to design a temporary slope with a FS of less than one, because it won't be there long enough to fail. If it becomes permanent, it gets regraded to stay put indefinitely.

For most steels, there is an FS that will give an infinite service life in situations with cyclical loading, but that is only "correct" if that is what you're after.

I also did not mean for it to sound like the project is impossible, it's just going to be impossible to cut a lexan duplicate of an XMag body and have it work right.

With a proper redesign, it could work, but it seems far too pointless to me to spend that kind of time on.

[the mag guy]

so don't quote me on that stuff.

oooohhh! Quoted! :rolleyes: hah j/k man

Ok, i know all this technobabble is fascinating, but I want to bring up one thing. That is a clear cocker. It's body holds pressure, unlike the mags. (im negating when the bolt shoots b/c of the time frame).


I'm not trying to negate what everyone is saying, they are all good points. As for a bit of optimism: If a cocker can do it, so can a mag. It seems to me it would at least last longer than the clear cocker body.

oh and i like the guide rail idea that ttink had. I think it has some potential. this would let you see the bolt in all its glory. it would also be sweet to do a level 10 anti chop video.

I just think that if it is possible, it wont look like your typical mag. I say you mold it to look like a nova 700 (the thickness!!!!) lol.

We can sit here and argue theories all day, I say we get this ball a rollin'!

[mobsterboy]

ok, well, i was thinking at least they'd be like some of maghogs guns. Just beauty for the collector. I'm thinking that if i can get ppl interested in a lexan rail, possibly milled after an alpha styling, or maybe something rogue does, i can meet a minimum order number, and then do a one off for a body, or maybe 2, and test it. Anyone that just wants to dive into this headfirst, lmk.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Slade did you go to WPI? For some reason I think you once mentioned WPI.


Safety Factor of 2 was what I understood to be the minimum for safe operation, especially something that is going to be right next to your face after you take a dive.

In the paintball world this is likely enough but it is often easy to reach a 3 SF in low pressure cases, so why not?

It should be possible to remelt the surface of the lexan to remove fogging, and relieve some of the residual stresses, although this would destroy any tight tolerances, and sharp edges.

[Rudz]

im intrested in battery cases, and grips, maybe a trigger, a karta rail?

[slade]

There is no "correct" for factor of safety.
sorry, thats exactly what i was saying, guess it didnt come out right. i was trying to say that neither statement about a safety factor was entirely correct, and each is applicable in different situations.


Slade did you go to WPI? For some reason I think you once mentioned WPI.
should i take it as a compliment that you think ive already graduated from college? ;)

i went to WPI last summer for mechanical engineering. thats where i had the teacher i mentioned.

im currently working at methods machine tools for the summer, and have one year of highschool left. WPI isnt my first choice, but it is fairly high on my list of colleges.

before i go any farther, though, i should clarify something, since ive gotten myself into this situation before on AO. The teacher i mentioned was from WPI, but i didnt intend to reflect poorly on either that teacher or on WPI. he was a good teacher, just in that one situation he made it sound like there is one safety factor that is always adhered to, when i know that in many situations a much larger margin of safety is used. when i mentioned that, he essentially said no, safety factors arent that high.

now that ive politely clarified that, its time to be more direct.


As for a bit of optimism: If a cocker can do it, so can a mag.
ugh... did you actually just say that? think about it. "if material A is useable in situation 1, it will be useable in situation 2; while situation 1 and 2 have similarities, they are far different in operation, stress, and required tolerances" ...does that seem like a good assumption to you?


this would let you see the bolt in all its glory. it would also be sweet to do a level 10 anti chop video.
there already is a video of an x-mag with its breech removed pinching a ball.


We can sit here and argue theories all day, I say we get this ball a rollin'!
ugh again... do i even have to say anything to that one?


ok, well, i was thinking at least they'd be like some of maghogs guns. Just beauty for the collector. I'm thinking that if i can get ppl interested in a lexan rail, possibly milled after an alpha styling, or maybe something rogue does, i can meet a minimum order number, and then do a one off for a body, or maybe 2, and test it. Anyone that just wants to dive into this headfirst, lmk.
so far youve mentioned at least 5 different products/companies that you want these products to be like or look like. of course people will use other products or concepts as a reference, but youre essentially just saying "these products are cool, it should be something like this" without putting much thought into origionality or even simply how you are going to do this, who is going to write the code, and in general how everything is going to happen. you mentioned prices, but from how youre talking it seems like youre just throwing ideas out there, hoping someone will bite. as you said, youre basically just diving into this headfirst... the only question is how large the bump on your head is going to be.

and, well, also maybe whether or not said bump will have any effect. so i lied, two questions.

[mobsterboy]

think of it this way slade. Why bother to create a new product WITH a completely new look when cad time will be almost eliminated if i get an existing maker to do it. Depending on who makes the products that are in demand, I will use who is most resourceful for me. This was never a "Im making this" it was a "Proposition (i have this great idea and id like to bring it to AO cuz most of the AO members are either physics majors of some sort, or machinists/ppl who know about this stuff)". To be truthful with you, I never really thought i was going to head up a project just because ive got too much **** in my life anyway. Its more of a "anyone can do this, do you have the patience, resources and effort to?"

BTW, for the haters, and the ones that think it will fail, have you used the machining grade, have you done tests, have you dove with it? I really could care less if it blew up in my face, at least im trying

[the mag guy]

1. ugh... did you actually just say that? think about it. "if material A is useable in situation 1, it will be useable in situation 2; while situation 1 and 2 have similarities, they are far different in operation, stress, and required tolerances" ...does that seem like a good assumption to you?

2.there already is a video of an x-mag with its breech removed pinching a ball.

3. ugh again... do i even have to say anything to that one?




1. if you actually all read my posts here, I said exactly what you did, except I didn't horribly chop your quote and paraphrase your post.

2. Who cares if there is an x-mag w/ its breech removed! It the whole gun clear? I think Not! I dont want to see it pinching a ball, I want to see the thing working.

3. please don't uh again me. See, what I was saying, if you didn't get it, is to take all these suggestions into consideration, but people aren't answering his question. I did. I said I was willing to help fund what I could. I did't see you answer his question. Thats why we should get started on this thing, I'd like to actually see it one day.



lets just chill out and quit complaining about everything. aight? :rofl:

[DaveSM]

Don't take it wrong. It could be done but it would need a LOT of re-engineering and calculation to be sure you stay within a correct safety factor for this application.

On the economical side it would also cost a big load of cash to get this tested and done. Our answers may sounds arsh to your hears but a few of us (including myself) know enough about this to warn you that if you don't have the sufficient knowledge to complete this projetc you shouldn't even start it.

Machining grade Lexan won't magically be any better then any other grade of Lexan. It even might be worst. Two days ago I was machining aluminium for my student club (a submarine Autonomus Underwater Vehicule) and I had a piece of aluminium that at first sight it would had seem normal. It had a welding spot on it though. I just picked up this material and started to take away some material. After a short time the piece simply snapped and bent in a way aluminium don't do usually. We stopped machining it and I realized that this parts while heated by the welding process had lost it's T6 heat treatment. I picked another junk of aluminium whitout any weld spot and machined my part whitout any other problems. There is times where you need to use your judgment and this was one of thoses. The material may look alike but what you can do with one might not be doable (sp) with the other one.

Also, a picture of a lexan cocker doesn't prove anything. Had it been aired? Was it only an assembly? How thick is the body? Look at the feedneck and you'll see it's integrated within the body. Try to find pictures from the fishbone cocker by trigernomic. There is simply no more meat left on this cocker but he also said that he would never air up this cocker. It can be done but probably not the way you would like it to be.

[slade]

think of it this way slade. Why bother to create a new product WITH a completely new look when cad time will be almost eliminated if i get an existing maker to do it. Depending on who makes the products that are in demand, I will use who is most resourceful for me. This was never a "Im making this" it was a "Proposition (i have this great idea and id like to bring it to AO cuz most of the AO members are either physics majors of some sort, or machinists/ppl who know about this stuff)". To be truthful with you, I never really thought i was going to head up a project just because ive got too much **** in my life anyway. Its more of a "anyone can do this, do you have the patience, resources and effort to?"

BTW, for the haters, and the ones that think it will fail, have you used the machining grade, have you done tests, have you dove with it? I really could care less if it blew up in my face, at least im trying
well, for starters, who do you expect to hand you their CAD/CAM files, or their CNC code? secondly, if they did, what makes you think you could even use it? if i recall correctly, AGD had to use 7075 aluminum for the ULE bodies. 7075 is much more expensive than 6061, but AGD used 7075 because it is much stronger and strain resistant. karta bodies arent much thicker than ULE bodies. if 6061 aluminum doesnt work, what makes you think lexan will?


The body concept is pretty sweet. I'm pretty sure there are different grades of Lexan so you'd havr to make sure you got the good one. My reasoning behing my statemenet is that I once had a computer case made of entirely lexan. One day last semester, in a freak accident, I watched it fall from a shelf about 3/12 ft off the ground. My poor computer broke into 40+ pieces! The two biggest side were not shattered, but the attachments brok off those. Btw the lexan that was used on my comp was barely over a quarter inch thick.
the mag guy, i read through posts but didnt look at the names of those who posted. but now that i did, i have another comment. are you sure you were actually using lexan? as in, did you buy it from a reputable place labled as lexan, with the lexan brand name on the product? im almost certain you just bought an acrylic computer case. its not a different "grade", its an entirely different material. acrylic shatters easily. polycarbonate, on the other hand... i used a piece of 3/16" lexan for battlebots, and the sheet took a hit from a 50 pound hammer controlled by a 4" bore pneumatic cylinder, probably running at around 100-150 PSI. the sheet was dented, but didnt crack at all.


3. please don't uh again me. See, what I was saying, if you didn't get it, is to take all these suggestions into consideration, but people aren't answering his question. I did. I said I was willing to help fund what I could. I did't see you answer his question. Thats why we should get started on this thing, I'd like to actually see it one day.
fine, then i wont fund his project, because i have an issue with setting fire to money without thinking the outcome fully through. youre essentially saying "lets get started on this" when there are so many issues people are bringing up. would you rather think out and address issues before you drop money into this, or after?

[DaveSM]

well, for starters, who do you expect to hand you their CAD/CAM files, or their CNC code? secondly, if they did, what makes you think you could even use it? if i recall correctly, AGD had to use 7075 aluminum for the ULE bodies. 7075 is much more expensive than 6061, but AGD used 7075 because it is much stronger and strain resistant. karta bodies arent much thicker than ULE bodies. if 6061 aluminum doesnt work, what makes you think lexan will?

I can quote on that too. I did a ULE body by myself as a final project at the CEGEP at the end of my 3 years technical formation in mechanical engineering (I'm now at the university in mechanical engineering). I made it out of 6061-T6 aluminium but I had a lot of trouble with vibrations and thin walls. Machining a functionnal lexan body with 1:1 dimensions is absolutely impossible.

Also it takes a lot of hours to have good G-code. Sloppy G-code can be done fast but if you want to prevent wear on your tools, have a good surface finish and don't lose hours on things you can do in minutes you have to take time and think deeper then that. Also if you change the material you have to change the parameters and test them back. If it works on aluminium, it won't work on steel. If it works on 6061 it might not work on 7075. If it works on 7075, it won't be efficient on 2021. There is a lot of things that has to come into account when you machine something. You do not only clamp the part on the mill and start right away. If it was as easy as using a toaster we wouldn't have engineers.

[the mag guy]

are you sure you were actually using lexan? as in, did you buy it from a reputable place labled as lexan, with the lexan brand name on the product? im almost certain you just bought an acrylic computer case. its not a different "grade", its an entirely different material. acrylic shatters easily. polycarbonate, on the other hand...

...would you rather think out and address issues before you drop money into this, or after?


sorry, i had to chop your quote, but i left the questions addressed to me. And sorry for my post, I read over it and it seemed a bit harsh. I didnt mean it that way. I hate arguing on the net, its pointless.

1. I am not 100% sure. It was a blue case that I bought from a computer store in huntsville, Tx. The sticker on it said Lexan, and the guy gave me some spill how they use it somehow to make bulletproof glass. I wasn't listening tho. I was extremely surprised when it broke, b/c i know it takes a lot to break it. I just didn't feel like telling a 5 page story in a forum. Know that I think about it though, I probably just got ripped off :cry: . I don't know too much about lexans and polycarbonates, but I know a little. Thats not why I'm runnin my mouth about specs. I try to stick with the things I know. If I do make a suggestion on a shady topic, I make a suggestion and make sure somone knows its just a suggestion.

2. I would definatley like to think out the issues. I really like reading what y'all have posted, it looks really really helpful to someone doing this project. Mobsterboy said he didn't really care if it blew up in his face, so I am assuming a little trial and error never hurt anyone (unless it really blows up in your face). I was just trying to say that you dont have to have an engineering degree to cut on a piece of lexan. It prolly helps though.


anyway I'm sure with enough theory and testing it will come out just fine.

[mobsterboy]

god, wheres derek to tend to martha when you need him?
slade, I will admit, you brought up good points. A) from talking to one dealer/manufacturer, he didnt seem to mind if I used his CAD files as long as it was through him and there was a $500 minimum order. B) My best bet at this point is prob RRFireblade if he isn't hella busy
C) Why would makers like Deadly wind care if I had them mill something and have them use their own cad files? Especially if they are cad files that have long since been retired, such as karta rails...

Dave, yeah, Im see that Im gonna just need to take a hit to the wallet if I really wanted to do this right and make sure that the strengths, thickness and wear damage is all accounted for. After all, if Im not gonna do it right, better not do it at all. Im gonna see about hitting into some CAD Design classes at my local community college and maybe get a machining class in as well. Physics can't come until next year as that Im only a freshman and the Physics i want requires Math 140. Anyone have CAD skills and want to dabble with some designs for me?

[slade]

sorry, i had to chop your quote, but i left the questions addressed to me. And sorry for my post, I read over it and it seemed a bit harsh. I didnt mean it that way. I hate arguing on the net, its pointless.

1. I am not 100% sure. It was a blue case that I bought from a computer store in huntsville, Tx. The sticker on it said Lexan, and the guy gave me some spill how they use it somehow to make bulletproof glass. I wasn't listening tho. I was extremely surprised when it broke, b/c i know it takes a lot to break it. I just didn't feel like telling a 5 page story in a forum. Know that I think about it though, I probably just got ripped off :cry: . I don't know too much about lexans and polycarbonates, but I know a little. Thats not why I'm runnin my mouth about specs. I try to stick with the things I know. If I do make a suggestion on a shady topic, I make a suggestion and make sure somone knows its just a suggestion.

2. I would definatley like to think out the issues. I really like reading what y'all have posted, it looks really really helpful to someone doing this project. Mobsterboy said he didn't really care if it blew up in his face, so I am assuming a little trial and error never hurt anyone (unless it really blows up in your face). I was just trying to say that you dont have to have an engineering degree to cut on a piece of lexan. It prolly helps though.


anyway I'm sure with enough theory and testing it will come out just fine.
yeah, you pretty much did get ripped off. it wasnt actually lexan. there is bulletproof polycarbonate though, although its around an inch thick.


god, wheres derek to tend to martha when you need him?
slade, I will admit, you brought up good points. A) from talking to one dealer/manufacturer, he didnt seem to mind if I used his CAD files as long as it was through him and there was a $500 minimum order. B) My best bet at this point is prob RRFireblade if he isn't hella busy
C) Why would makers like Deadly wind care if I had them mill something and have them use their own cad files? Especially if they are cad files that have long since been retired, such as karta rails...

Dave, yeah, Im see that Im gonna just need to take a hit to the wallet if I really wanted to do this right and make sure that the strengths, thickness and wear damage is all accounted for. After all, if Im not gonna do it right, better not do it at all. Im gonna see about hitting into some CAD Design classes at my local community college and maybe get a machining class in as well. Physics can't come until next year as that Im only a freshman and the Physics i want requires Math 140. Anyone have CAD skills and want to dabble with some designs for me?
well, of course someone will do the CAM/CNC work for you if youre paying them. but its highly unlikely someone is going to just hand you their designs or code. Xmags are no longer in production and someone on AO asked for the CNC file a while ago... he didnt get it. i doubt deadlywind would just hand out their designs and programs that they put so much work into, regardless of whether or not they are still producing their bodies. but hey, go ahead and ask them, and if they will tell them to send a copy my way. but its not going to happen.

i actually looked into community college courses a while ago, and it seemed as if everything had a prerequisite. you want to take a class to learn pro-e? well sure, they have it, but you first have to take a computer aided design class, and before that a general engineering design class, and before that...

[mobsterboy]

i actually looked into community college courses a while ago, and it seemed as if everything had a prerequisite. you want to take a class to learn pro-e? well sure, they have it, but you first have to take a computer aided design class, and before that a general engineering design class, and before that...

If between FAFSA federal grants, state lottery funding and my life scholarship Im getting a surplus amount to do whatever I want in a community instate college for the two years. I will be there, why not take some extra classes I evidently have an interest in? My backup plan, although very messy and requiring more time spent in the classroom should i choose it halfway through, is engineering. I just find that business is something i have more of an interest in. Particularly finance and international, which the college I'm going to has a great program for (University of South Carolina).

As far as the cad design stuff, if Im paying them do make a product they already have designs for, they could just charge me a minimum cop-out fee for the designs when they use them, why would they charge fullprice for something they already have around though? If that was the case, Id have them totally redesign the whole body to a completely different look. No need to pay the same amount for a less unique look.