Paintball 'Terrorists'

[BigEvil]

Oh boy....

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Two Students Indicted for Jihad (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-07-19T232347Z_01_N19341728_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-GEORGIA.xml&archived=False)

ATLANTA (Reuters) - A federal grand jury indicted two U.S. citizens on Wednesday on charges of plotting "violent jihad" and undergoing paramilitary training in northwest Georgia to prepare themselves for terrorist acts.

Syed Haris Ahmed, 21, born in Pakistan and a student at Georgia Tech, was arrested in March. Wednesday's charges superseded an earlier indictment against him, adding three counts of material support of terrorism and a foreign terrorist organization.

FBI officials in April arrested Ehsanul Islam Sadequee, born in 1986 in Bangladesh. He was also added to the indictment.

Both men developed contacts with other supporters of jihad, traveling to Toronto, Canada, and made video clips of "potential terrorist targets" in Washington including the Capitol building, the indictment said.

"Ahmed, Sadequee and another person known to the Grand Jury engaged in physical and rudimentary paramilitary training including activities with paintball guns in northwestern Georgia," said the indictment filed at Atlanta district court.

It said Ahmed traveled to Pakistan to get paramilitary and religious training with the aim of fighting in Kashmir, while Sadequee went to Bangladesh in part to support jihad.

The case is one of several in which U.S. justice officials have prosecuted suspects whose alleged plots were in their very early stages.

U.S. Attorney David Nahmias defended the validity of making arrests and charges before a specific plot has been hatched.

"The indictment does not allege that these defendants had proceeded to a point that they posed an imminent threat to the United States. But in today's world we no longer wait until a bomb is built and ready to explode," he said in a statement.

© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

----------------------------------------------------

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Wow, so I suppose being a tourist and enjoying paintball is now an illegal combination.

[Toll]

You are brown and have a gun.

Must either be gang warfare or jihad time.

[Arstron]

So somone spends a ton of money on this kid to go to georgia tech just as a "cover" so that he can train with paintball guns to be a terrorist? That just sounds fishy to me. Of course I have no idea at all if he really was planing on anything or not, plus I dont know what he was studing, but come on. Why would anyone go to college to be a teroist just to plan on shooting people?

[Severe]

This has less to do with paintball and more to do with the fact that these guys were associating with known terrorist and engaging in questionable activities. Hell, they could have been running around with broomsticks and the result would have been the same.

[warbeak2099]

How does playing paintball teach you to blow yourself up in crouded areas? I don't even see how it could train you for combat since it is soooooooooooooooo different from firing a real firearm it's not even funny. Whether or not these guys were terrorists, I don't think paintball had anything to do with their training. I'm pretty sure they just liked playing it.

[nate2k191]

This has less to do with paintball and more to do with the fact that these guys were associating with known terrorist and engaging in questionable activities. Hell, they could have been running around with broomsticks and the result would have been the same.

agreed. I don't think this will have much, if any, affect on paintball. The real issue is with them actually bieng terrorists or not.

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

How does playing paintball teach you to blow yourself up in crouded areas? I don't even see how it could train you for combat since it is soooooooooooooooo different from firing a real firearm it's not even funny. Whether or not these guys were terrorists, I don't think paintball had anything to do with their training. I'm pretty sure they just liked playing it.

IMO -I respectfully have to disagree with part of your position. There are as always -- many different ways to participate in paintball sports. Its very possible these guys were using paintball as a milsim training tool. Using proven military tactics that can relate to small arms fighting is not such a far fetched idea. Law enforcement does it, and paintball can be a first step in training to use real weapons in this manner.

Not so hard to imagine these guys developing simple two or three man skills that are the basis for small arms assault techniques being used in any conflict shown on CNN. Not to sound paranoid - but things like this do happen when the right bunch of morons get together. I'd also have to assume they were concentrating on woodsball primarily.

HLD...

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

Oh boy....

---------------------------------------

Two Students Indicted for Jihad (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-07-19T232347Z_01_N19341728_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-GEORGIA.xml&archived=False)

ATLANTA (Reuters) - A federal grand jury indicted two U.S. citizens on Wednesday on charges of plotting "violent jihad" and undergoing paramilitary training in northwest Georgia to prepare themselves for terrorist acts.

Syed Haris Ahmed, 21, born in Pakistan and a student at Georgia Tech, was arrested in March. Wednesday's charges superseded an earlier indictment against him, adding three counts of material support of terrorism and a foreign terrorist organization.

FBI officials in April arrested Ehsanul Islam Sadequee, born in 1986 in Bangladesh. He was also added to the indictment.

Both men developed contacts with other supporters of jihad, traveling to Toronto, Canada, and made video clips of "potential terrorist targets" in Washington including the Capitol building, the indictment said.

"Ahmed, Sadequee and another person known to the Grand Jury engaged in physical and rudimentary paramilitary training including activities with paintball guns in northwestern Georgia," said the indictment filed at Atlanta district court.

It said Ahmed traveled to Pakistan to get paramilitary and religious training with the aim of fighting in Kashmir, while Sadequee went to Bangladesh in part to support jihad.

The case is one of several in which U.S. justice officials have prosecuted suspects whose alleged plots were in their very early stages.

U.S. Attorney David Nahmias defended the validity of making arrests and charges before a specific plot has been hatched.

"The indictment does not allege that these defendants had proceeded to a point that they posed an imminent threat to the United States. But in today's world we no longer wait until a bomb is built and ready to explode," he said in a statement.

© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.

----------------------------------------------------

I'm placing you in charge of all suspicious paintball activity surveillance BigEvil. I authorize you to use that "special paint" if you personally see more guys doing this.... :cool: Carry on.

HLD...

[warbeak2099]

IMO -I respectfully have to disagree with part of your position. There are as always -- many different ways to participate in paintball sports. Its very possible these guys were using paintball as a milsim training tool. Using proven military tactics that can relate to small arms fighting is not such a far fetched idea. Law enforcement does it, and paintball can be a first step in training to use real weapons in this manner.

Not so hard to imagine these guys developing simple two or three man skills that are the basis for small arms assault techniques being used in any conflict shown on CNN. Not to sound paranoid - but things like this do happen when the right bunch of morons get together. I'd also have to assume they were concentrating on woodsball primarily.

HLD...

Law enforcement and military trainers do not use conventional paintball markers or rounds. A paintball marker designed for playing paintball asa sport would be quite useless in training you how to fire small arms weapons. The tactics are totally different. Except maybe CQB tactics. But other than that, a paintball marker that is designed for the sport is useless because of it's inferior accuracy and range. Sorry, playing with a Tippmann or Tac-One will not in any way make you able to be a crack soldier with an AK-47, AN-94, AR-15, etc.

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

Law enforcement and military trainers do not use conventional paintball markers or rounds. A paintball marker designed for playing paintball asa sport would be quite useless in training you how to fire small arms weapons. The tactics are totally different. Except maybe CQB tactics. But other than that, a paintball marker that is designed for the sport is useless because of it's inferior accuracy and range. Sorry, playing with a Tippmann or Tac-One will not in any way make you able to be a crack soldier with an AK-47, AN-94, AR-15, etc.

You're right -- I'm completely wrong.

http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessays/jan2003/p011403a1.html

http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessays/jan2003/p011403a2.html

HLD...

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Hehe...I smell sarcasm.

The skeptic in me still wonders if the Dept. of Homeland Security, thats the dept. that wasted all that money, and had all those sleeping guards, could possibly do their job right, and whether things like this are done just to make it seem like they are doing their job.

[Toll]

I want to bunker the military.



Odd, because when the Canadian military comes to the field they're all using different sorts of markers that are authentic looking, if not infact real fire arms with modified ammunition. Running about with a 98, even with the velocity at max, would hit no where near what these things can.

It really comes down to wether or not you look suspicious. Guess what? You're not white and you have something that makes loud noises and looks like a gun? You should be very, very careful. How ever, saying "zomg terror!!" and arresting them because they exibit signs of terrorism (dark skin, speak in a funny accent) is a bit much. If it was a bunch of white kids out there playing there wouldn't have even been a check.

-I'm not saying it to be a dig, I'm saying to be a realistic type of guy. Why? because in the last couple of years there have been fewer people named Jim Brown that have attempted to blow things up.

[JRingold]

Yeah, it's been a good 12 years since the last American performed a high profile terrorist attack on an American target, and he was a Gulf War Veteran. So we should have at least another two or three years before we have to start suspecting the white boys playing in the woods again... :eek:

It's more about how they were doing whatever they were doing and with whom they were associating. I agree that the paintball has little to do with this situation.

[REDRT]

My feelings on students over 21 here in this country from terrorist nations should have their student visas revoked and deported. They seem to be the bombers. Eliminate the threat before it becomes a problem.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Say good bye to every graduate student in engineering, and most of the rest of them for good measure.

Oh and by the way I'm sure 90% of those students go on to become US citizens.

"Ya'll are smart and work harder than the rest of us, Git out!"

[BigEvil]

"Ya'll are smart and work harder than the rest of us, Git out!"


LMAO
Does that mean I have to get rid of all of my Mexicans?

Seriously though... doesnt matter if your smart or work hard. Break the law, and you should suffer the consequenses. Anyone who has let their visa expire are breaking the law.

[Mango]

Law enforcement and military trainers do not use conventional paintball markers or rounds. A paintball marker designed for playing paintball asa sport would be quite useless in training you how to fire small arms weapons. The tactics are totally different. Except maybe CQB tactics. But other than that, a paintball marker that is designed for the sport is useless because of it's inferior accuracy and range. Sorry, playing with a Tippmann or Tac-One will not in any way make you able to be a crack soldier with an AK-47, AN-94, AR-15, etc.



You are completely wrong. Let's wait until we have first hand experience in a subject before trying to discuss it.

In the police academy, we used paintball pistols to train with. At a local paintball field here in south jersey, over 30 law enforcement agencies use a CQB house to train with. This once again involves the use of paintball pistols.

At this same facility, local law enforcement use paintball (with Tippmans) to develop teamwork skills and tactics.

[nate2k191]

did paintballing start in the military? as training, then become mainstream?

[slade]

My feelings on students over 21 here in this country from terrorist nations should have their student visas revoked and deported. They seem to be the bombers. Eliminate the threat before it becomes a problem.
...and that would be why you have no authority whatsoever on this subject.


You are completely wrong. Let's wait until we have first hand experience in a subject before trying to discuss it.

In the police academy, we used paintball pistols to train with. At a local paintball field here in south jersey, over 30 law enforcement agencies use a CQB house to train with. This once again involves the use of paintball pistols.

At this same facility, local law enforcement use paintball (with Tippmans) to develop teamwork skills and tactics.
then again, there is a large difference between law enforcement and the military. law enforcement officers mostly use pistols and avoid firing unless they are forced to (a stray bullet knocking a 6 year old off his tricycle wouldnt go over well). and if an officer is forced to fire, it is generally at close range.


did paintballing start in the military? as training, then become mainstream?
nope. i thought by this point pretty much everyone on forums knew that... it started as a game of capture the flag.

[Toll]

Cattle markers.

[thegrayghost]

Cattle markers.

well paintball originated with the Forestry Service marking trees...as for terrorists, they can and could cover up training in the woods using paintballs as training aids...do not under estimate what can and can not be done...our Country is at War...observation on something out of the ordinary should be reported to the Authorities, and let them evaluate...

thegrayghost