Lighter Markers...

[Dye Angel Guy]

I understand the reasoning on people wanting lighter markers but is it really that important. I have used heavy markers like the shoebox shockers and emags to lighter angel speeds and timmies but does 3oz really throw your game off that much or is that extra weight wearing people out on the field.

If the wieght is an issue of getting tired out go lift some weights and get over it. For those hours upon hours of scenario games I can see the weight getting to you after that long of time.

If playing with lets say an Angel LCD in speedball makes you play worse compared to an Angel Speed something is wrong with your game. If people think 3oz.(figuratively, I know the difference is like 8oz. or something) makes them slower to the point that it will make you get hit something is wrong there also. Yes, you will be slower according to physics but the odds of it slowing you down enough to get hit instead of not getting hit are very slim.

Sorry everyone I just had to finally say it.


P.S. I am 6'3" and only 158pounds and I only complain about people complaining about how heavy their gun is compared to another.

[Lenny]

Lol. I agree.

[ttink]

I also agree but I think a lot of it is merely bragging rights, or companies just needing to "innovate".

[JRingold]

Well, I agree and disagree with you at the same time. If that makes any sense...

I can definitely tell the difference it takes on my body between using my X-mag and My RT-ULE Pro. When I play all day long with my X-Mag, I feel completely wasted that night and the next day. When I play all day long with my RT-ULE Pro, I don't have the same level of fatigue. Now, I've not actually weighed either setup, so I honestly don't know if there is much of a difference in the weight of the setups or not, it "feels" like the X-Mag setup is a lot heavier than the RT-Pro ULE. I'll take some pictures and put them on the scale and get back to you...

At the same time, while playing, I can say that I get hit a lot less when using the X-mag. That could be due to the RoF differences, or the confidence that I have when using it over the RT-Pro, I don't know...

[GT]

I dont think you have the entire view of the issue. It really has more to due with the balance of the setup than weight of the marker. I think one reason some people are not fans of mags is becuase they are traditionally more back heavy. A shoebox distrbutes the weight evenly.

[Dye Angel Guy]

Ah yes, having your marker setup balanced I think is way more important than how much it weighs but personally I would rather have a back heavy setup for 2 reasons.

1. If I play back I can rest most of the weight on my arm/shoulder.

2. I can move the front of the gun quicker without the back end swinging around on me.

Just my 2 cents, oh wait because of the COIN ACT there will not be pennies anymore so what is going to happen to the statement?

[KKPASA]

I play with a phantom and a mag there is a BIG difference in weight. I notice a difference in my game play towards the end of the night, but after working out for a few months I can say that the weight of the mag doesn't effect me any more.

[SpitFire1299]

Did you make this topic because i made the 8oz lighter DM6 topic? :D

I think that once you really get into speedball, you begin to want the best.. lightest and smallest with good performance. It just all around will help your game, but at the same time theres people just as good if not better with there big old guns.

[SR_matt]

meh, i see both ways, at scenarios is definatly improtant but liek you said a short say is no biggy

my old cocker compared to teh mag im building is goign to make a differance (old orry mech cocker) i will be able to throw the mag up more easily i think (also the size helps a little)

while 3 oz by itself isnt a lot think if you use a boost pack in your hopper (half or a 1/3 the weight of normal batteries), get a tank that is 3 oz lighter you just saved almost half a pound.

ya you think o half a pound isnt to much but pick up a piece of lead that is half a pound (yes i know every material that is weight to 1/2 a pound will be the same weight, i say lead because it is dense). and you wil realize that 1/2 a lb will matter a decent amount.

i see the stupidity in it but i also see the good points to it.
-matt

[bentothejam1n]

If the wieght is an issue of getting tired out go lift some weights and get over it
people like light weight guns because they can move them faster when snapping or when moving the gun. being strong doesnt nesscesarily make you faster when moving your gun. sorry if nobody can understand what im saying because im running on about 4 hours of sleep :sleeping:

[zaqwert6]

Basically it's this....

Generally speaking all current markers FAR out perform thier user. The only tangible difference beyond that is size and weight.

Both are pretty easy to visually compare unlike most other attributes.

;)

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I also agree but I think a lot of it is merely bragging rights, or companies just needing to "innovate".

I agree with your first statement. Alot of it is kids bragging or justifying their purchase because it is lighter. I think most players, including teenagers, know that you will not feel a 3oz. weight difference.

Balance is really key. It can make a bigger difference than just the weight of the marker.

And to the person who said weight is important in a scenario game, you have no idea. 3 days straight using an 04 Viking, 88/4500 and a Halo in the sun....I was able to hold another plyers 06 Cyborg with a 68/4500 and Halo and it felt so much lighter. The difference was just astounding...

[SR_matt]

o i understand that, i used an old mech cocker with a 68/45 for a full scenario and i was sore for the next week or so (i can do it fine now but still that was bad)

my friend shoots a viking and ya that thing is a tank
-matt

[68magOwner]

for years i used unmilled vikings, dm3's, Z gripped old RT mags, and similar heavy setups, and, they never botherd me at all. Latley i have been playing with my shockers quite a bit (just changing things up from the long time timmy use) and, i recently picked up and played with a DM3, and i can honestly say, the weight bothered me. The thing shoots great, but, just wasnt near as comfortable to snap with, or shoot while reloading (holding up with one hand), or even post up for extended time periods.

[Nutsnyomowf]

Disagree.A lighter marker alows the player to run faster, draw quicker,and hold his/her marker in a steady position longer.

[BigEvil]

The special effects people in Hollywood have put most of the midgets out of work, since they dont have jobs playihng ewoks and munchkins anymore, the midget lobby is invading paintball. They cant handle real-people size paintball markers True story.

Watch out for the proffesional horse Jockey Association.

[SR_matt]

actualy its the jockey guild

but idk dude id watch out for some of the jockeys my bro in law is a hall of fame jockey and dang hes a strong dude, all 5'3'' 135 lbs of him (he retired in november so hes put on a little weight)... then agin he did have to deal wil 2000 lbs of horse :p

-matt

[rx2]

If you think paintball is out of hand, you should look at bass fishing reels; especially the Japanese domestic reels. Some people throw a fit when they find out that a new model reel has a .5 once increase in weight - and the thing is still less than half of a pound.

Of course, there are some merits to light setups, especially if they can help you achieve better balance. I, for example, have developed a severe case of medial epicondylitis in both arms. As such, a half of a pound off of a marker can make a huge difference in the level of pain I feel when hoisting the marker, as well as when I have to move it back and forth quickly, as when running.

But, there is a diminishing return. After all, if you make the body, or other components, lighter without reducing the mass of the bolt, you will begin to feel increased recoil. This is not to mention the possibility of reducing the structural integrity.

[Dye Angel Guy]

Maybe it is just getting to the point of our technology not inventing anything else beyond the ordinary and people are running out of ideas so they have to make up new stuff that really isn't new.


P.S. Heaviest marker ever: My Minimag I used in like 2000, SP Gadget Grip, KAPP DropZone 2, Center Flag Hyper Frame, Armson Stealth, Warpfeed, 114/3000 Crossfire tank. That thing was heavy but I loved playing with it and honestly never got tired of carrying that thing around.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

P.S. Heaviest marker ever: My Minimag I used in like 2000, SP Gadget Grip, KAPP DropZone 2, Center Flag Hyper Frame, Armson Stealth, Warpfeed, 114/3000 Crossfire tank. That thing was heavy but I loved playing with it and honestly never got tired of carrying that thing around.

My "heaviest" set up was 2 years ago. I had a 2001 STO Cocker with a 114/3000 tank. However, I used a tank ring, which added half a pound. The tank Reg was one of an adjustable brass regulator, adding probably 1.5-2 pounds. The entire bottle was probably 3lbs. empty, full add 2 pounds. The entire set up weighed in at 9.5-10 lbs. I think my Viking is even or is over by .25 to .5lbs.

[ttink]

There is a differnce in weight and its affect on performance when comparing say, a new shocker to an old SS classic valved mag. Sure, you will probably be able to do things quicker with the shocker. But I really think the point of this thread was to point out how companies MUST get that one extra ounce shaved off, and that will not really affect things that much, if at all IMO.

EDIT: When my double barreled mag is finished it will proabably wiegh around 10 pounds with hoppers and the tanks. :eek:

[mag_lover05]

i play with a phantom and an emag.

with the phantom i can run like theres nothing there.... with the 10 round feed tube and a 12 grame it is lighter than your pack:) and about as heavy as a halo....

[rx2]

If you want heavy, you should have seen my friend's old VM-68 that he had in the early 90s. Not only are VMs huge and heavy to start with, but he had it set up Magnum-style with two 20oz. CO2 tanks (one in front, and one under the gripr frame), and a 16 inch brass barrel.

[Tao]

I have heard many people (some big huge guys too) complain that a warp is too heavy and they don't use it. Instead they practive shooting techniques such as holding your gun sideways so the hopper stays behind the bunker. (LOL!!!!!!!!!!!)
Anyway I think it basically boils down to that the advantage of the lower hopper thanks to the warp is not worth spending a few minutes more at the gym! :P

[Tao]

If you want heavy, you should have seen my friend's old VM-68 that he had in the early 90s. Not only are VMs huge and heavy to start with, but he had it set up Magnum-style with two 20oz. CO2 tanks (one in front, and one under the gripr frame), and a 16 inch brass barrel.

Well that would be better than a single tank right under the barel...those things are almost imposible to shoot with a tank right up front! It is sooo front heavy! I am surprised no one knows the beauty of those guns: you don't need an agitating loader to feed them since they agitate your loader on their own :P

[onedude36]

Heaviest settup: 04 unmilled viking, 68/45 apocolypse(sp) which weighed an easy 8-12 lbs by itself, halo and such.

Edit: I couldnt even shoulder it. Id kinda drag it allong behind me on a run and put the tank under my arm pit because i couldnt shoulder it very long. I now run a shocktech dm5 :clap:

[blamtro]

:tard: I hope this was said with complete sarcaism in mind...



I can definitely tell the difference it takes on my body between using my X-mag and My RT-ULE Pro. When I play all day long with my X-Mag, I feel completely wasted that night and the next day. When I play all day long with my RT-ULE Pro, I don't have the same level of fatigue.

[dahoeb]

weight does matter, but only to a point. for example, a NON-uled emag with a 112ci steel tank and a warp feed will probably start to wear you down a little bit by the 6th hour of play. but you certainly don't need a 1 1/2 lb marker setup to get by, just a nice medium for whatever is comfortable for your size and/or strength.

for me, a ule rt pro with a 68ci fiberwrapped tank seem to be perfect, not too light and toy like but definately light enough so i can quickly snap and go all day without getting tired.

[ThePixelGuru]

You're all forgetting that, while a gun that weighs a couple ounces less isn't absolutely needed, it is a slight advantage. Yes, you'll be able to move it just a little faster, you'll get a little less fatigued, you can hold your marker ready for longer, etc. It's not that we absolutely need these things, but given the choice between a marker that weighs 2lbs and one that weighs 10, it's not that hard a choice to make. We don't need markers that shoot 20bps, but if we've got the choice between 18 and 20bps, we're going to take 20. We don't need a lot of things our markers can do, but if we can get them, we will. Every little bit helps, guys, and when you get to the finals in a tournament, you'll be glad to be shooting a great marker and not just a passable one.

[Toll]

The weight doesn't bother me as much as the balance.

My friend's cocker weighs quite a bit (oldschool left feed 99 series) with a warp, halob and a boom stick...Not to mention the 88/45 tank. I like it better than some setups that were lighter simply because it's weight was where it needed to be. I put my stiffi kit on there the one day and it was a huge pain in the ***, simply because it wasn't balanced like it was before.

[RavishingEddie]

:) My Emag weighs 2 lbs 14 oz. W/O tank :) It lost to my friends 06 Ego that weighs 2 lbs 8oz. ;) But I then removed the Emag battery and case and it weighed at 11 oz. :wow:

If can find a way to get a lighter battery we will have a new winner. :)

[jenarelJAM]

Lithium^^^ ;)

All you people who complain about your vikings, the things are HOLLOW. I take mine to the field and honestly can't feel it dragging me down at all.
I normally think that the "go to the gym" comment is overused and doesn't always relate, since many paintballers get some serious exercise just playing paintball nonstop, but onedude36, if you can't shoulder your viking, it's not the viking's fault.

I think lightness is indeed the market's next goal. Since the electronics have plateau'd, and paintballs aren't changing any time soon, there's not much left to improve on. I wouldn't mind dropping a couple oz. off my setup, or even up to a couple pounds, but the tradoff is price and quality. When I look for a new gun, the first thing I look for is reliability. Guess what my two guns are, a viking and mag(and broken spyder... hm...). Next I look for is a decent trigger/board, and then price. At the end of my list is cosmetics and weight. I'm not a huge guy, but I could care less how much the thing weighs if it has everything else I want. If I can shoot it comfortably, I'm all set. If you can't shoot it comfortably, well, either go to the gym or settle for something else.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

All you people who complain about your vikings, the things are HOLLOW. I take mine to the field and honestly can't feel it dragging me down at all.
I normally think that the "go to the gym" comment is overused and doesn't always relate, since many paintballers get some serious exercise just playing paintball nonstop, but onedude36, if you can't shoulder your viking, it's not the viking's fault.

I do agree with you. However, I only complained when I was dealing with a 3 day scenario game and to be honest, it was not that bad. I had started lifting weights a few months back just so my arms wouldn't die when I played in the scenario. It's not like I'm weak, I just needed the endurance.

However, I find it odd that you look for a decent trigger/board combo as your second requirement for a new marker. I guess that just falls under personal speed and comfort. For me it goes price, reliability, efficiency. Looks and a trigger do not matter to me.

[Thordic]

It definitely matters.

I went from a 9-10lb setup (Minimag with warp and flatline) to a 4-5 lb setup (custom RT I built for light weight) and I felt that my game improved immediately. Granted thats a HUGE difference, but it does make the case for light weight.

I was able to snap shoot quicker, move around quicker on the field, etc. A couple ounces here and there may not matter, but it adds up fast if you get the lightest marker, lightest tank, etc.

[BigEvil]

Not only take a good hard look at your needs, but be smart about your purchases. I play speedball and scenario, I need LP and HP for my different guns, so I picked up an adjustable tank and long ago purchased a Redz big game pack that works for speedball, but can also hold the tank on a remote for those crazy long humps in sceario games. Does it suck that my tank weighs 500lbs? Does it suck that I have to go crazy on the plumbing with a non-screw in tanks - yes, but I also dont have to lug two or three different ones in my gear bag.

There are TONS of options, dont quickly go with whats popular right now.

[jenarelJAM]

I do agree with you. However, I only complained when I was dealing with a 3 day scenario game and to be honest, it was not that bad. I had started lifting weights a few months back just so my arms wouldn't die when I played in the scenario. It's not like I'm weak, I just needed the endurance.

However, I find it odd that you look for a decent trigger/board combo as your second requirement for a new marker. I guess that just falls under personal speed and comfort. For me it goes price, reliability, efficiency. Looks and a trigger do not matter to me.

Yeah, I understand that on a 3 day scenario, you would want to drop as much weight as possible. I apologize if my coment came out overgeneralized.

Efficiency is up there on my list too, but I wasn't thinking of it at the time of post(haven't played in awhile). The reason trigger/board is so high on my list is because now I'm used to tadao, and looking at my friend with his angel, I'd never wan't that board. It takes too long to start up, too hard to adjust settings, etc. I don't care so much if my board is capable of firing at 35+ bps. The trigger really has its own group, the feel of the grip/trigger. I like a blade trigger, and I like a thin grip.

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

I have to agree with the guys on the "try and get in better shape " side of the equation. I look at scenario games as a good reason to ramp up my workout schedule to meet the challenge of the game. I've been using an A5 with all the bells and whistles for quite some time before the E-Mag I now use. Sure its easier to carry an Ego, but if you're really wheezing after a couple of hours carrying the heavier markers out there --- then you should address your physical conditioning.

IMO- If you're in good health - then there should be no reason why you can't build up your speed and endurance for using heavier equipment. Its not like you're carrying an extra 5 lbs of marker -- the effect of the weight difference is more psycological than actual. But if your game is speedball, I can see a lighter setup helping to a degree in reaction times to get on target faster.

HLD...

[JRingold]

:tard: I hope this was said with complete sarcaism in mind...

You couldn't tell by the way I typed it?

I've found another correlation... When I use a lighter marker, I use less paint. When I shoot a heavier marker, I shoot more paint. It's like a one case to three comparison... :p

[electriceel125]

You people know nothing of weight! Try out my nasty typhoon. Double barrel full brass. Two revvies full of paint and a 68 4500 tank. That thing is a monster that could be considered a lethal beating weapon.

[Shives]

I like a lite gun, it off-sets the tank :p


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/shives/NitroNelie2.jpg

Shives

[deathstalker]

People use poor logic when discussing weight, not to mention no one can verify the difference in weight makes a significant difference. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with people when it comes to weight, just questioning how they know they are correct. Have they run time trials on themselves? I'm willing to bet there is a difference when one compares the heaviest markers available to the lightest, but I'm also willing to bet there is no significant difference when markers weighing close to each other are used.

In other words, someone who has used a Tippmann for a while will notice a huge difference when handed an Ego. Their game might change as well. However, someone already using, say, an '05 Ego will not notice a difference when handed an SL-66 and their game will not be any different. The smaller the difference in weight, the more difficult it is to determine. There has been quite a bit of research conducted on this.

*EDIT*
Besides, how much lighter is that former M-98 toting player going to be when he switches to a lighter marker like an Ego, but has to carry three more pods for all the extra paint he shoots? ;)

[SR_matt]

well its kind of like runners and swimmers, while the little stuff doesnt make a huge differance but it does make you a little bit faster (and the sport is comming to the point that if some one can get to the 50 .2 seconds before the other one they can get the better posistion in enough time to shoot the other guy).

and think about it, if the millitary could amke there guns less than a 1 pound they would so its kind of the same basic idea.
-matt

[BigEvil]

I like a lite gun, it off-sets the tank :p


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/shives/NitroNelie2.jpg

Shives

WOW great tank. I had one of those until PMS lost it. :-(