wierd, but hopefully fixable

[the mag guy]

Ok so I know my stuff about classic alves and x-valves, but for dome reason I cant figure this one out.

The scenario:

I'm running c02 on my clasic, every thing is stock, I gas it up and no leaks. AS soon as I pull the trigger it it starts venting so fast that liquid co is literally shooting out of the gun in miliseconds. its nuts. Anyway, So I dissassemble the the on/off and everything seems fine, all o-rings are there, nothing is bent. so I lubed it all up and oput it back. I opened the powertube and everything seems in place. I compared it to the exploded view and its looks fine, I opened up the two halves and the huge o-ring is perfect and the seat (fat) oring is just fine. The littles spring rod is not bent or warped at all and the spring is fine too. I took out the velocity adjuster and all the little black o-ring assebly parts seem ok.

I figured it was the crappy spring, I look out my heavy spring and popped it in, same case, same leak. WHat am I doing wrong? Am I overlooking anything. I've used tons of KC Troublefreem so its definatley not a lube issue. Any suggestions.

oh i almost forgot, while the gun is venting, i can force a squeedie down to the back and hold the bolt in and the leak stops, but the second i let up it gurgles liquid co2. lmk people

[rb211]

Replace your power tube o-ring. Check your sear for wear, and be sure that you are using the appropriate spacer in the power tube. Also, check to be sure that your rail bushing is in place. You should also consider an expansion chamber using CO2, especially if you are getting liquid in the gun.

[athomas]

Is it shooting and then venting, or is it not shooting and just venting instead?

Gassing up and not leaking would indicate that the powertube oring is probably ok. Pulling the trigger, shooting, and then having a massive leak would indicate a bad on-off oring.

[Maverick27502]

bad on/off ring makes sense...question, does the sear look overly worn or damaged in some way. because it sounds like the bolt is stuck in the forward position. I've had this happen to me once or twice while using CO2 on my Mag but only after I shot like bag of paint through it non-stop. So I'm not sure what it could be besides the on/off and the spring not pushing the bolt back/sear not catching.

[the mag guy]

to answer a few questions quick off

1. the sear is in excellent condition.

2. The spacer is the correct size b/c it is the only spacer that goes with the stock valve.

3. I hace an expansion chamber and im still blowing liquid.

4. The bolt isnt stuck foward, the sear is still holding it in place.

5. initially, when I gas up thye gun, there is not leak. Upon pulling the trigger it begins to vent like crazy, but the gun never fully shoots. after the trigger is released it vents and I either have to hold the trigger down all the way or use my battle swab to hold the bolt back. when I say hold it back, im talking barely. the bolt is still held in the sear.


I have not tried replacing any o-rings yest, but upon inspection of all the o-rings they all seem in tact and in good condition. I am kinda embarrased this is happening, I can tune X-valves with LX and ULT over the phone or tune the in persoin, but I cant get a dang classic working. What I will try toimnorrow night is take off all o-rings from the classic and put them in a bag. then I will remove all o-rings from my perfectly fine X-valve and put them on the classic. if it works, I'll buy an o-ring replacement kit. it that doesnt fix it I;m definatley gonna need some help.

[Ace12GA]

to answer a few questions quick off

2. The spacer is the correct size b/c it is the only spacer that goes with the stock valve.


Is this a lvl7 bolt? If it is, theres a selection of spacers, not just one.

When you first gas it up and it doesn;t leak, do you pull the trigger and release and then it leaks? Or does it start to leak when you pull the trigger, and continue to leak when you release it? If its the former, its almost certainly the power tube o-ring or spacer. If its the latter, its got to have something to do with the on/off, and possibly the powertube o-ring /spacer. Its a little odd that you can press on the bolt slightly and that stops the leak some. That sort of indicates a wear issue with the sear or bolt, since that seems to indicate the bolt is not being retained fully under preasure.

Can you be more detailed about the sequence of events. I pull the trigger and it leaks is not specific enough.

Does it leak when the trigger is pulled then released? If yes, probably power tuibe spacer or o-ring. Possibly sear wear issue.

Does it continue to leak when you hold the trigger in? If yes, on/off issue, o-ring or damaged on/off assembly.

Does it leak when you pull the trigger before you release it? If yes, on/off issue, o-ring most likely.

Thats my $0.02 from what my classic valves have done over the last year.

[the mag guy]

1. No, it is not a lvl 7 bolt, it is the stock bolt that comes with a classic valve.

2. Can you be more detailed about the sequence of events.

I thought I did this, um no leaks till i let go of the trigger and then everythign described as above. I work the early shift at work tomorrow so as soon as I get home (prolly around 7 pm), I'll make a short video. hopefully it will help. I guess im not as good as describing things as I thought.

3. Does it leak when the trigger is pulled then released?

YES. Also as stated my sear is in good condition, but it does make sense what you said. I have two spare sears lying around. one still in the package. I'll give it a shot if o-ring replacement doesnt work. When I get home, I'll change out the on/off rings and the power tube rings.

4. Does it continue to leak when you hold the trigger in?

Not so much. If I hold the trigg all the way back real hard it doesnt leak.

5. Does it leak when you pull the trigger before you release it? nope

about the squeegie thing I mentioned. its similar to the trigger thing. as long as im holding it in, there is not leak. the second I let off pressure...thar she blows :spit_take .

thanks for all your help







Thats my $0.02 from what my classic valves have done over the last year.[/QUOTE]

[the mag guy]

ok I wont be getting home till a bit later tonight. What I'll do is try to make a short video and we'll see where we can go from there. I'll try all o-ring replacements first before i make the vid tonight

[the mag guy]

ok so I get home and replace the sear with a brand new sear, i replace every oring on the power tube (one in the back and one on the screw. I replaced the orings in the ON/off. Still same symptoms. I tried sticking my x-valve's completley net rt on/off b/c it works in classics, but not this one. I still got the same symptoms. So im assuming that the on/off is fine and my problem is elsewhere. I completley dissassembled the valve and looks at it like the exploded view is. I then put it together slowly, making sure not to miss anything. gas it up and this time when I gassed up it was leaking down the barrel. Upon checking this out I realized I ran out of co2 as well. I will refill in the morning and start again. I will beat this valve with your help. As soon as I get air I can make a vid as well. One for the classic leak, and one for my sweet p mag.

[the mag guy]

oh yeah, i even replaced the stainless polished body with my dust black minimag body. Still same original results. before I ran out of air I also tried the med weight spring from my LX kit. no different results.

[LiveWire]

sounds like lvl 7 spacer to me... lvl 7 is what comes with the stock classic, not the lvl 10.

[the mag guy]

I thought they came stock w/ something less than lvl 7. oh well, I dont know too much about classics but i know my share of x-valves and what not

[the mag guy]

real quick, do you think that I could use a large carrier from the lvl 10 instead of the old spacer without converting anything else to lvl 10?

[Pneumagger]

no. you need the spacer. One techniquie is to add LX shims to the spacer to make it longer. But it sounds like you need a smaller spacer. Try shaving the spacer down some... CAREFULLY and EVENLY. If you shave to much, you can always ad LX shims. Now were only taling about .005-.025 inches here, so dont go overboard with the shaving.

Or ou could buy a new spacer kit for $15 or so

[the mag guy]

ok well I re-oiled everything made sure all o-rings were good. fresh can of co2. check the vid, this is crazy. I might seem a bit suprised in the video, its because I didnt gas up the gun pre video.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/th_classic.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/themagguy/?action=view&current=classic.flv)

for some reason on my computer the sound and vid arent syncing up.
Whats happens is:
When I gas up the gun it leaks. After pulling the trigger once it stops, but I get nothing from the trigger. almost like the sear is catching on something. When I hit the back of the gun it leaks like crazy until I pull the trigger again. Then the cycle repeats.

[Maverick27502]

I'm at a loss man. Wish I could help you more. It's honestly puzzling. :tard: :confused:

[the mag guy]

this is nutz, I forget the name of the dude I bought this valve from, but I think he might have messed me over. Im not accusing him, but in a pm he sent me he said it was working fine before he sent it to me.... Im thinking it wasnt

[rb211]

Is the rail bushing in place?

[athomas]

I say check the rail bushing as well. If it is in place, the next thing is to get a shorter powertube spacer.

What type of bolt is on the gun? Is it a stock AGD level 7 bolt or an ANS or other aftermarket bolt?

Are the orings genuine AGD or a generic brand? Generic orings can sometimes cause problems.

[the mag guy]

I say check the rail bushing as well. If it is in place, the next thing is to get a shorter powertube spacer.

What type of bolt is on the gun? Is it a stock AGD level 7 bolt or an ANS or other aftermarket bolt?

Are the orings genuine AGD or a generic brand? Generic orings can sometimes cause problems.


All agd brand o-rings. the new ones came straight off my x-valve. The bold is the stock classic bolt, nothing aftermarket on this gun.

and the rail bushing is in place. tomorrow sometime i will try the valve in my p frame and ule body just to see.

[Ace12GA]

The x-valve uses different o-rings than a classic. Aside from that, its a strange problem. I would still conclude the spacer issue, and it would be worth the couple of bucks to try different spacers. I have a problem similar to this with one of my classic valves. When I gassed it up it leaked a little down the barrel, and when I pulled the trigger it dumped. When I held the trigger in, it still leaked. I ended up buying a full parts kit and spacer kit. Replaced all the o-rings, and it still leaked down the barrel. Messed around with the spacers, and finally fixed it. Its been working great since then.

[the mag guy]

Ok It is fixed!

Solution:

1. Powertube spacer problem
2. Missing Rail Bushing

First off I wanna Touch on #2 because of the vid i made. I didnt realize how important the rail bushing is, I pulled my rail bushing off of my pneumag ans stuck it on the classic, and it shot and cycled perfectly with the exception of a small leak. The leak was fixed by finally shaving a bit off of the powertube space. After looking around in my parts bucket, I found an old mag spacer that said ".220" on it. It ended up being the exact same size as the one in the tube. So I tired it and still got a leak. I shaved tiny bit by tiny bit off. each time completley cleaning everything and reassembly. After about a hours of that crap I had a fully functional mag! :headbang:

I was going to be up for sale, but my friend fell in love with it and is buying it today.
Thx for all your help AO.