What are you looking for in future advancements...

[RogueFactor]

This isnt limited to mags, rather the industry as a whole.

Mfr's usually go where the consumer leads them. So I ask you, the consumer, where do you think it goes from here?

At this point, markers are shooting faster than allowed. Up to twice as fast in some cases. Not much point in improving on the speed issue, already been done.

Guns are to the point of being as light as they can be, as small as they can be, as short as they can be. Any advancements in these areas will have minimal effect.

Efficiency is always an opportunity to capitalize on. But if we are shooting as much paint as we are capable of right now with ramping...whats the point? Besides maybe carrying smaller tanks?

Markers being cheaper? Can they get much cheaper than they are?

What else is there?

[Pneumagger]

I think markers can get cheaper. That is really the next/current wave. Look at the ion...they are everywhere...speed, price, monotube looks.

If a manufactureer could gear up to sell one kind of QUALITY marker as cheap as possible, and let the aftermarket take care upgrades...I think that would be the right direction. Also... I don't feel that markers really need to shoot past 20 bps to really capture a bulk of the markert

[behemoth]

This isnt limited to mags, rather the industry as a whole.

Mfr's usually go where the consumer leads them. So I ask you, the consumer, where do you think it goes from here?

At this point, markers are shooting faster than allowed. Up to twice as fast in some cases. Not much point in improving on the speed issue, already been done.

Guns are to the point of being as light as they can be, as small as they can be, as short as they can be. Any advancements in these areas will have minimal effect.

Efficiency is always an opportunity to capitalize on. But if we are shooting as much paint as we are capable of right now with ramping...whats the point? Besides maybe carrying smaller tanks?

Markers being cheaper? Can they get much cheaper than they are?

What else is there?

Free paradigms for Behemoth.

Get to it.

[trevorjk]

i like to think of paintball guns as a pinnicle. except for minor advancements in the designs and such, i really dont think your going to get much greater efficiency, and speed. smaller and lighter, just mill more off.

i see most improvements on the feild it self. with a better quaity lower cost mesh netting. a lower cost indoor feild grass/turf that is extremely easily maintained. over head walk ways above the feild for the birds eye view. sure this cost more then buying a new shocker. but i think fields need to step up to the plate and accomade the spectator into the game. a more friendly viewing experience that is safe for everyone.

as far as i see it. paintball feilds them selves could vastly be improved

[pennywise]

i like to think of paintball guns as a pinnicle. except for minor advancements in the designs and such, i really dont think your going to get much greater efficiency, and speed. smaller and lighter, just mill more off.

i see most improvements on the feild it self. with a better quaity lower cost mesh netting. a lower cost indoor feild grass/turf that is extremely easily maintained. over head walk ways above the feild for the birds eye view. sure this cost more then buying a new shocker. but i think fields need to step up to the plate and accomade the spectator into the game. a more friendly viewing experience that is safe for everyone.

as far as i see it. paintball feilds them selves could vastly be improved
I agree. I feel that this is one area that is overlooked. All of "Paintball's" attentention is focused on the gear--focus on the fields for a little bit.

[behemoth]

I honestly think reball feilds are the future.

[mobsterboy]

the only place left to go is being unique.

[pennywise]

the only place left to go is being unique.
Even then, it won't last long. If being "unique" works, expect others to follow, thereby killing your "uniqueness".

Unique doesn't last long in paintball.

[RoadDawg]

I want to see a different style of tournament play. Elimination and then getting the flag is old and boring. I want to see something jazzier or spazzier.


As far as the "birds eye view" of paintball, HB NPPL used to do this with the pier. Unfortunately balls hitting bunkers tend to bounce into the crowd at high speeds. Thus making it "unsafe" and messy w/o nets. It only takes one bad bounce to get the lawyers involved.

[DiSoRdeR]

Personally I think the future of paintball is going to involve more pump action. When I first bought a pump I was lucky enough to see or play with another person who had one. Now Im seeing five or more people with pumps each time and I think it is great. I think alot of people are getting sick of the cost of playing with electros or even semis so they go back to paintballs roots.

I think once more companies realize this and put some more pump products out there it will catch on more since there are few if any improvements left for electros. Plus playing with a pump adds a new element to the game and over all it is just way more fun. Every thing goes full circle and its just a matter of time.

[FinchMan]

I've some times pondered the industry returning to CO2 power.
It's already focusing on lowering costs to attract more players, and HPA systems are a significant startup cost for new players. Plus, using CO2 would probably boost efficiency per fill.


Then there is also gun reliability/indestructability. Some new guns have it, a lot of them don't.

If tommorow's designs could keep the good points of today's guns and add some of the great points of older designs, that would really be nice.

My list (no order):
Speed, price, ease of mantainence, efficiency, weight, balance, size, reliability, indestructability... Oh yeah, Quietness. :ninja:

[Pballwizz]

Precise electronic velocity adjustment (with locks and limits and such)

[mr.mag218]

I honestly think reball feilds are the future.
QFT i've believed that since i first played at one.

[VFX_Fenix]

Removal of a required air system all together (No CO2 or HPA Required). Your gun, your paint, end of story.

While I realise this is something that NPS has/is in progress I've yet to see a production, or even a working prototype .68 Cal gun of this nature (live, video or otherwise). Then improving reliability, capacity, speed, etc.

Loader technology. Personally I see the Q-Loader as, more or less, the zenith or current loader tech. Simple, compact, fast. I'd wonder what could be done to increase effective payload (to even 200 balls/fill?).

Fields. I'll echo a desire for more spectator friendly venues.

Paint - Better marking characteristics with fewer possibilities of staining, there are still some paint lables out there making staining paint and it honestly puts me off a bit. And, as ever, the continuing trend towards better paint for lower prices.

It's a short list...

[SpitFire1299]

I like everything the way it is. Im actually kind of afraid of change at this rate. :ninja:

[RRfireblade]

Someone makes a thread like this every year and every year later markers get smaller , lighter and faster for less money so...

Efficiency will get better but only to the point that there is a physical limit as to how little air will get a paintball up tp 300 fps.

Therefore....

Markers will continue to get smaller , lighter , (theoretically) faster , more efficient and cost less overall.

Long term will get you to smaller integrated loaders and air systems and more advanced electronic packages.

IMO.

;)

[the mag guy]

I can tell you where the air side of paintball will eventually end up. I know a lot of you wont think this is true, but do yuor researched before you pick me apart.

CO2 will be gone, Nitro with a few exceptions will be gone. Propane is the future.
Hear me out:

If you had the same size propane tank as the generic 20 oz co2 tank, the propane tank would allow up to 50,000 shots per fill. 50,000!

Guns can now be lighter because the tank size can be reduced to hardly anything if you want to keep about a 2,000 shot fill tank.

The only reason I can't see Nitro/Comp. Air going away is because propane is very low pressure. Guns like ours (the mags owners and other HP markers) would not even think about operating on such low pressures of propane.

What to expect from this? When the wave catches on, the LP industry will start booming again. But this time when they say LP they mean it. I expect to see many more markers coming out powered by propane.

This wont be an overnight thing. Im gonna say give it 3-5 years tops before you see where some of the tings I'm describing.

As for those worried about shooting so mast it would ignite ythe propane...do your research plz before you post something like that.

The only thing I can see that would be something to consider is playing indoors in large groups with propane. 20+ people playing all shooting propane. thats a lot of gas in the air. With proper ventillation though, it would work fine.

Tippmann has already leaned towards this venture and produced a propane marker. ITs actually rather impressive.

Now another way to go is with Helium. pretty much the same thing, but a bit more efficient.
Please dont just bash this post w/o doin a bit of research. I'm serious, this is where we are ehading folks. Unless some crazy propane disaster kills the movement.

[BigEvil]

With the intergration of Blue Tooth technology into a new and more powerful generation of paintball controller boards, I would like to see fields and tournaments have to ability to "Spot-Flash" players markers with approved software. This would help limit cheater codes and hidden modes. (of course it would open up a whole new world of ways to try to get around it)

I also think that many of the adults who are avid players and have been turned off by the punk- speedball mentality will continue to migrate to scenario/woodsball and pump.

I dont think pump will ever make a HUGE comeback, but it may get trendy for a while.

Re-ball for indoors is fine, but who is going to go rake them up outside?

[y0da900]

I can tell you where the air side of paintball will eventually end up. I know a lot of you wont think this is true, but do yuor researched before you pick me apart.

CO2 will be gone, Nitro with a few exceptions will be gone. Propane is the future.
Hear me out:

If you had the same size propane tank as the generic 20 oz co2 tank, the propane tank would allow up to 50,000 shots per fill. 50,000!

Guns can now be lighter because the tank size can be reduced to hardly anything if you want to keep about a 2,000 shot fill tank.

The only reason I can't see Nitro/Comp. Air going away is because propane is very low pressure. Guns like ours (the mags owners and other HP markers) would not even think about operating on such low pressures of propane.

What to expect from this? When the wave catches on, the LP industry will start booming again. But this time when they say LP they mean it. I expect to see many more markers coming out powered by propane.

This wont be an overnight thing. Im gonna say give it 3-5 years tops before you see where some of the tings I'm describing.

As for those worried about shooting so mast it would ignite ythe propane...do your research plz before you post something like that.

The only thing I can see that would be something to consider is playing indoors in large groups with propane. 20+ people playing all shooting propane. thats a lot of gas in the air. With proper ventillation though, it would work fine.

Tippmann has already leaned towards this venture and produced a propane marker. ITs actually rather impressive.

Now another way to go is with Helium. pretty much the same thing, but a bit more efficient.
Please dont just bash this post w/o doin a bit of research. I'm serious, this is where we are ehading folks. Unless some crazy propane disaster kills the movement.


The Tippmann actually relies on the combustion of the propane, and that is where the 50,000 shot estimate comes from. Simply relying on the expansion of propane due to to a pressure gradient and absorption of energy from outside it's container (ambient temperature, and or heating elements of some design) like we do with CO2, I highly doubt could approach anything even remotely close to that. A set volume of liquid propane will expand to a gas with a specific amount of energy (pressure and volume).

At 80 degrees fahreneit, propane only has a vapor pressure of 128PSIG, CO2 has a vapor pressure of roughly 950PSIG at the same temperature.

Don't get me wrong, I think we will see great things come from propane as a source of propulsion for our equipment, but it will come from either a chemical reaction with something else, or straight up combustion, not just as a source like CO2 is.

[BigEvil]

Wide-scale propane use could attract unwanted attention. Using 'combustion' to propel a paintball out fo a gun might give some or our wonderful lawmaker friends ideas about classifying them as firearms.

Im not saying that propane will never happen, but maybe very slow at first.

[buzzboy]

As before mentioned the guns will only get marginally better. I think we should not really focus on smaller and lighter but keeping the same size/weight and making it stronger.

Field equipment should be made cheaper for the same quality. Namely chronos and air bunkers.

Paint can always be made cheaper. Or at least better deals for larger quantities. Would make me very happy.

Also equipment such as masks would be nice to see some quality improvements. Maybe more masks that perform as well as the top ones. Right now there are what, about 8 masks that just blow everything else out of the water.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I honestly think reball feilds are the future.

Reball fields or cheaper paint.

Yes, I am fully aware paint has come down drastically in price over thepast 10 years. But I truly believe that in order for the sport to grow, it needs to cost less to play. Sure, $75 a day isn't horribly, but it certainly isn't great. Not much can be done other than rising demand, so yeah..

The circuitry of paintball- I can't see any other major advancements other than the upcoming Bluetooth boards.

As my general thought on upcoming markers, it will merely follow the automotive market. Cars mainly get aesthetic face lifts for the new year with some minor mechanical changes.

Meh, we'll see...

[behemoth]

Reball fields or cheaper paint.

Yes, I am fully aware paint has come down drastically in price over thepast 10 years. But I truly believe that in order for the sport to grow, it needs to cost less to play. Sure, $75 a day isn't horribly, but it certainly isn't great. Not much can be done other than rising demand, so yeah..

The circuitry of paintball- I can't see any other major advancements other than the upcoming Bluetooth boards.

As my general thought on upcoming markers, it will merely follow the automotive market. Cars mainly get aesthetic face lifts for the new year with some minor mechanical changes.

Meh, we'll see...

I talk about paintball, and people are like 'Wow, i wanna try that, what does it cost.'

soon as you say 'Admission is 10, and paint is 60 for 2000' they say 'Nevermind.'


-- Also, big evil, you'd have to make an outdoor feild with netting, and some sort of gutter system around the outside of the feilds,with a slight pitch to the feild. so the reballs would collect themselves, if a few got stuck, the players walking off, or the refs could double check the feild real quick, and kick them towards the tape.

It dosent seem all that complicated to me.

[Hexis]

Reliability, Consistency and Efficiency. In that order.

[Nutsnyomowf]

I honestly think reball feilds are the future.

QFT i've believed that since i first played at one.

You might as well play AirSoft.
Oh yeah I say we leave it be paintball is in a great state the way it is.

[pito189]

I would like to see field improvments.

Better overall fields. Quicker times between games is always my biggest complaint. Socializing is fine, but when I pay my money I want to play as many games as I can.

I think making tournaments ultra efficient. Getting people to their fields on time, know exactly when you are going to play and at what time would be a big improvement. Especially at the smaller regional tournaments. Some kind of system designed that would allow for the tournament organizer to input teams, and then have a projector able to display them on a screen, also have a printed times sheet for each time. Making it affordable for the smaller tournaments to use would be nice.

Dedicated fields with built in bunkers. Every morning the person opening the field comes in and presses a button and the corresponding field rises out of the ground and inflates itself. Fields could be playable in 5 minutes and taken down the same way. Setting up airball bunkers blows.

Making fields more user friendly. Bathrooms, tables, everything that you would expect at a stadium at any other sport, but just fails at paintball fields.

[eadtf]

Personally I would like to see paintballs drops to say .34 or 16 caliber. I think there is room for development in the realm of connecting a hopper / magazine to the marker. One of the biggest drawbacks to a paint gun is the ammo feed. If a manufacture developed a marker that would allow the paint to me loaded into the stock and fed to the breech in an efficient manner, say 16BPS, and carry 100-140 rounds, the game would be better off. I think the prospect of propane seems to be a good alternative to get more shots out of less air so let’s have a look at the rounds.

[dahoeb]

a marker thats not full of orings....that would greatly increase reliability and reduce maintenance. make a marker that requires 1 oring or less and actually performs good. i know this is probably wishful thinking but it'd be nice.

a mech (doesn't have to be a mag necessarily) that can shoot as fast as an electro would be great as well (cough *deadlywind/PTP* cough cough).

standardized threading for all markers, not just for barrels, but for everything would be convenient. that probably wouldn't really be a technological "advancement", but it'd be nice.

[FiXeL]

Personally I would like to see paintballs drops to say .34 or 16 caliber. I think there is room for development in the realm of connecting a hopper / magazine to the marker. One of the biggest drawbacks to a paint gun is the ammo feed. If a manufacture developed a marker that would allow the paint to me loaded into the stock and fed to the breech in an efficient manner, say 16BPS, and carry 100-140 rounds, the game would be better off. I think the prospect of propane seems to be a good alternative to get more shots out of less air so let’s have a look at the rounds.

I don't think there is anything more efficient than gravity feed. Granted, manufacturers could make a feed system that would feed balls from a stock-like magazine but the loading system would make the marker expencive and to me it seems a bit hard to make with a acceptable payload. I rather stick a warp next to my marker so i would not have a hopper sticking out. (assuming this is the reason why you mentioned a stock fed magazine) Ok, even gravity feed has been a thing of the past with force feeders like the Halo, Vlocity and Qloaders. (does warp classify as a force feeder?) But the principle is simple and it works, why bother with somthing complicated that possibly could break down?

Also dropping the .68 cal paintball to a smaller one does seem a good idea because you can hold more paint in the same volume of the loader, but it also would mean the mass off the ball would be less, so it has less energy. In that case the deviation from wind would be alot bigger, so im not sure that's the way to go even if you increase the muzzle velocity.

Propane has a promising future in paintball, but it will take some years before the first semi markers will be out there. The Tippmann C3 tends to heat up while rapid firing, and this problem should first be tackled before developing a semi marker. I'm really looking forward to this technoligy, even though it will probably be classified as a firearm in the country i live.

One future advancement i sure hope will happen is that manufacturers stop hyping their products, but i guess that's wishfull thinking. I really don't care how light it is, how fast it can dry fire, color lcd screen, bluetooth inside, or intel inside for that matter. I just want a gat that shoots straight. :)

Sorry for any bad spelling, i'm dutch so don't complain. I'm doing the best i can. :P

[PumpPlayer]

I'll post my thoughts before reading the thread so as not to be influenced in any way.


I think that with as many people are playing now and as many different marker types as there are, the big market is going to be in production customization.

The custom market has a lot of demand but a true scratch-built custom gun is very expensive and your choices are limited. Sending an existing marker out for custom work is a real pain and it can take years to get a marker back once you send it out.

I think the best way a company can capitalize on this growing and unanswered demand for custom work is to have production customization. Simply by having many different choices in a few different areas on a marker can give you the potential for hundreds of different setups. Possibly thousands or tens of thousands. Furthermore, the cost increase for each upgrade can be very low because it doesn't force anyone to devote special time to your marker.


Take a look at the Phantom as a small example of production customization.
There are different valves, feeds and grips that all come standard. Choose a stock from 4 different types or none at all. Different barrel lengths and finishing options. Clear or black parts, small or large, C/A or 12-gram setup, etc. When you're done, you can select from over 100 color choices. All at reasonable cost.

The demand for aftermarket parts is huge and I think it represents the desire for customization options. The new electro markers hardly have any options to them at all besides a choice of maybe a few different color schemes.

By offering options on new equipment, you let people have a chance to custom-build their marker and you can really capture a huge portion of the market with that.

[duby]

i would love to see a standardizing of all markers out there. same barrel threads, same feedneck threads, one allen wrench to take apart and adjust every marker on the market.

[Jackel411]

I would like to see cheap low end electros go away..


Its like giving a dodge viper to a first time driver. Most people dont know how to maintain them let alone use them in the right way. I spend 90% of my day as a field air tech up to my elbows in Ions that need things soldered on , or full cleaning or lubing or in some cases total and major over hauls.

Other than that...

Id like to see the tech come back into the game.. it used to be different tuning guns , Like cockers and mags, you can spend some time tweaking things and it would be a sweet gun.. now everything is just skill in a box to a degree.. half of the things dont work as they are said to or just over complicate things

Case in point..... bearing triggers, This can be achived by polishing the insides of triggers and all metal it contacts.. Ive done with with my timmy and it works great..

Other than that.... and this is my last one...

When did guns get so damned ugly? In my shopping for a new high end marker I couldnt find anything asetically pleasing to my eye.. DM6 looks like some space gun , PM6 same thing , private label shockers that are out now are just uggo and after seeing a Naughty Dogs in person my opinion dropped more , New timmys bleh.. I ended up going with an ego because the lines are plain enough for me not to get sick over the design

[SlartyBartFast]

I would like to see field improvments.

Field and store improvement will only happen once the wholesale and distributor side of the paintball busines gets its act together.

Then ,we might eventually see the pinnalce of improved service and fields, nationwide paintball field franchises.

Note that there are companies attempting to start this strategy.

[robnix]

soon as you say 'Admission is 10, and paint is 60 for 2000' they say 'Nevermind.'


I have a friend that goes skiing almost every weekend of the winter. He complains that paintball is too expensive, go figure. $500.00 for a decent ION setup plus, the $50.00 a day it costs to play is less than what he pays to ski through the winter.

[nate2k191]

production customization.

MAGS!

they range from pump to scenario to rec to tourney and everywhere in between - and they are quality products.

paintball's future... like most said, cheaper paint, better fields. There are plenty of guns to choose from.

propane... we can wait and see.

reball... i'd rather paintball.

[RogueFactor]

as far as i see it. paintball feilds them selves could vastly be improved

Agreed. Fields would need to make more money to do that. With everyone wanting lower prices, I dont see that happening without a vast increase in volume(more people playing).

Fields and shops are closing all the time.

I think Slarty hit the nail on the head--->


Field and store improvement will only happen once the wholesale and distributor side of the paintball busines gets its act together.

Then ,we might eventually see the pinnalce of improved service and fields, nationwide paintball field franchises.

Note that there are companies attempting to start this strategy.

[RogueFactor]

I have a friend that goes skiing almost every weekend of the winter. He complains that paintball is too expensive, go figure. $500.00 for a decent ION setup plus, the $50.00 a day it costs to play is less than what he pays to ski through the winter.

Yeah, but you dont get bonus-balled skiing :D

A bad day of pump play only cost $20. A bad of ramping play costs $100+. Makes it realy easy to quit playing ramp-style when having a bad day costs so much.

A bad day of skiing/snowboarding is still enjoyable. And if it isnt, at least you know when you show up what the conditions of the snow will be like. Not quite true at the field....crappy attitudes are always lurking :ninja:

[robnix]

Yeah, but you dont get bonus-balled skiing :D

A bad day of pump play only cost $20. A bad of ramping play costs $100+. Makes it realy easy to quit playing ramp-style when having a bad day costs so much.

A bad day of skiing/snowboarding is still enjoyable. And if it isnt, at least you know when you show up what the conditions of the snow will be like. Not quite true at the field....crappy attitudes are always lurking :ninja:

True, it's all how you play(ski), and the value you percieve in the activity. Dollar for dollar though, there's just not that much difference in actual cost.

[Troen]

personally, i'd like a flamethrower on my paintball marker, nothing fancy, just something to roast someone who bonus balled me

[Toll]

I'd like to see the price of paint drop and standardized threadings.


Maybe a marker that is infact the pinacle.

-Mechanical
-Easy to walk (15+ bps)
-Durable
-Light
-Can be fit with a 12gram adapater and a pump arm
-Efficient
-Runs on co2


Something that will never break, is quick enough to be a speedball marker if you wanted it to be and will fit your means/playstyle.

Why?

-If you are new to paintball you probably don't have the connections to get stuff cheap..so you have to rely on stores. Pick up an Ion/halo/tank package you're looking at 600$ Cdn and if something goes wrong, you have no idea how to fix it.

Co2 means you get plenty of shots, even if you're just getting your 9oz filled to go play in the woods with your buddies

Want to play pump? Doable
Want to lay paint down? Doable


Ofcourse, you can do all of this with an automag, so I think we may have a winner ^^

[hgp3fat]

Who knows what the future holds for the various forms of paintball play. The one thing I want to see is a general change in the players attitudes.

The players are the ambassadors of the game. Sadly alot of our ambassadors are punks, bullies, and bad sportsmen... and they attract the same.

I used to love NBA basketball, but over the past few years have lost all interest in it. Their ambassadors are to blame. I hope my new game doesn't join the NBA in my mind.

[jsdatjsd]

Unless some crazy propane disaster kills the movement.

Even propane has a life limit. Propane costs are going up, with gas. Not a consideration now, or even in 10 yeears. But in 20 years, where will the petrol industry be?


Also, I think there is an obvious place that paintball will go, and it will take time, but it will probably go there.

1) Body armor, thicker lexan, or whatever they use for the goggles (1/4" or more), and 600 fps shots. Fast enough to knock someone down, if they got hit with a short string.

2) Move away from spherical projectiles. You get less ammo since it has to be fed via a magazine rather than a hopper, but think of the distance inprovements.

600fps, body armor, oblong paintballs, ranges out to 500 feet.

Im there when that happens!

THen your anodizing can extend to your body armor.

ANyone for aluminium plate mail?

:headbang:

[Toll]

*searches for the picture of the guy in the Master Chief suit with a tippmann*

[jsdatjsd]

*searches for the picture of the guy in the Master Chief suit with a tippmann*


Yeah, but master chief has that yucky green ano.

I wwant gold pinstripes on hot pink!
:hail:

[ttink]

I would like to see simpler markers on the whole. Granted, many markers are fairly simple today, but getting rid of electronics would help with alot of problems (this is jsut my experience though). A few companies putting out fast-firing mechs would be cool IMO.

[DiSoRdeR]

Maybe some type of rail gun to go along with that body armor? Markers would no longer need an air source then. :D

[jsdatjsd]

Maybe some type of rail gun to go along with that body armor? Markers would no longer need an air source then. :D

CUrrent rail guns require massive capacitors, just to shoot a penny a feqw yards. Try shooting a non-ferrous object like a paintball with a railgun and you would need a powerplant larger than an aircraft carrier.

I have seen a strawberry levitated with magnets before, but, holy cow, those were huge magnets.

I wanna hear people exclaiming, "this new gun is so awesome, I get 100 shots out of it!" because they use so much air to shoot one ball.

I want the paint flying so fast it heats up from friction with the barrel.
I want the guns so lound they sound like cannon.
I want people to be knocked on theit tushes when hit.
I want shoulder pads, neck braces, articulated joints, and huge booming sounds when someone shoots.
I want the paint going so fast that it would rip the hopper off the feedneck on one of todays markers.
I want paintball guns to have stocks because there is real recoil!
I want the paint travelling fast enough, that if it was any faster, firction with the air would burst the ball in midflight.
I want ambulances waiting on the sidelines!


:headbang:

[dahoeb]

holy crap dude.....thats hardcore....^^

a year ago there was a battery powered paintball marker released by NPS called the EVolt. i'd like to see where that technology goes, theres definately room for advancement in that.

[Duck Hunt]

I want to see people focus more on playing ability than equipment....


Sean

[REDRT]

The only advancement I'd like to see is AGD stop going backwards and step it up with a new electro. Everythiong else seems ok to me or atleast going well enough.

[DoomWithAnXmag]

Weight and size of the actual markers are pretty low. Accuracy is as good as it will get with paintballs such as they are now. Markers are faster then they need to be and any new advanced electronics like internal velocity control and FPS meters would just add complexity and are really just gizmos.
How about a propane marker with modern electronics. The gun would use 12 gram tanks which would still be guite a few shots. Drop paintball size to .50 inch or smaller. If we could create a fill that would cover a larger area with less volume to drop paintball size enough we could even integrate hoppers on to the gun. Imagine a pod roughly coke can sized built flush onto the top or a marker holding 200 .30 or so sized paintballs.

[the mag guy]

Wide-scale propane use could attract unwanted attention. Using 'combustion' to propel a paintball out fo a gun might give some or our wonderful lawmaker friends ideas about classifying them as firearms.

Im not saying that propane will never happen, but maybe very slow at first.


they are already considered firearms in my home town. My buddy got a ticket for discharging a firearm in his back yard, when all he was doing was tweaking his gun. My home town also considers BB guns firearms on the same grade as real guns. (I dont consider BB guns real guns)

[REDRT]

they are already considered firearms in my home town. My buddy got a ticket for discharging a firearm in his back yard, when all he was doing was tweaking his gun. My home town also considers BB guns firearms on the same grade as real guns. (I dont consider BB guns real guns)
firearm
One entry found for firearm.


Main Entry: fire·arm
Pronunciation: 'fI(-&)r-"ärm
Function: noun
: a weapon from which a shot is discharged by gunpowder -- usually used of small arms

Humm doesn't seem to fit

air gun
One entry found for air gun.


Main Entry: air gun
Function: noun
1 : a gun from which a projectile is propelled by compressed air
2 : any of various hand tools that work by compressed air; especially : AIRBRUSH

Now that seems to fit. Law makers seldom use a dictionary?

[the mag guy]

Im not trying to go all geeky on y'all, but I think the bluetooth thing is gonna catch on but then fade out. My current boss used to be an electrician and is pretty much an engineer. He built a bluetooth jammer that could be carried in a backpack. His reasoning to make it was because he got tired of people talking on their phone/headsets during movies. He wanted to relax and watch his movie. When he turns it on, everything bluetooth in a 30 ft radius quits working. It doesnt break, how it works is it covers the spectrum with garbage signal and floods out everything. He just cranks it on and watches people go "hello..?" its great. Whenever he tunrs it off, bluetooth works again. He has since developed an aiming device so he can "point and shoot" to disable bluetooth. Its not like pinpoint or anything, he can just focus it in a direction instead of in a big sphere.

anyway the reason I told you this charming story was not to say if he brought this to a paintball field and tunred it on nobody's gun would work, but think of the possibilities. This is pure speculation here, but I would assume there is a frequency that would flash the board and erase any type of shooting mode. Or you could make a gun go haywire.

all im saying is bluetooth is just small term wireless, therefore somebody somewhere will find a way to use his/her computer to clusterscrew your gun, or your entire team while playing on the field.

I'm down with bluetooth. I'd really like to see how the electro world will change from it.

I just wanted to let you know I am working on a product that WILL change the way paintball is played. Most likely the woods/tactical side, but the speedball side as well. I;m not going into detail at all right now, because I'm in the starting process of patents and all that crap. But mark my words, I will change paintball.

I will answer 3 questions:
1. It has something to do w/ bluetooth.
2. IT IS NOT shooting mode software or any type of hacking/flashing device.
3. It is an accessory that will be available aftermarket.

I hope to have my prototype up by late december.

[RogueFactor]

Now that seems to fit. Law makers seldom use a dictionary?

They dont use dictionaries.

When laws are made, whether they are city, state, or federal, the term/s that comprise that law are defined in the subsections. This keeps folks from saying "my dictionary defines it different your honor".

This is why in some places paintball markers are defined as firearms, and in others they are not.

[Lohman446]

firearm
One entry found for firearm.


Main Entry: fire·arm
Pronunciation: 'fI(-&)r-"ärm
Function: noun
: a weapon from which a shot is discharged by gunpowder -- usually used of small arms

Humm doesn't seem to fit

air gun
One entry found for air gun.


Main Entry: air gun
Function: noun
1 : a gun from which a projectile is propelled by compressed air
2 : any of various hand tools that work by compressed air; especially : AIRBRUSH

Now that seems to fit. Law makers seldom use a dictionary?

It fits perfectly if one uses the Michigan legal definition of firearm.

[White_Noise]

standardized threading:
cocker barrels, and maybe angel or matrix feednecks
also a fan of using only 3 wrenches: 3/16, 1/8, 3/32.

field advancement: get spectators involved. tourney players want pball on Tv, and in order for that to happen it needs to be spectator friendly, we're working on the game type, why not make the fields for it?

[WenULiVeUdiE]

standardized threading:
cocker barrels, and maybe angel or matrix feednecks
also a fan of using only 3 wrenches: 3/16, 1/8, 3/32.

AKA Feedneck threading is the strongest. Never have to worry about stripped bodies or feednecks again. ;)

Barrel threading is fine. I'd just like to see the price of them come down. Yeah, $110 for an anodized aluminum tube...Meh, easy and safe to buy used!

[SlartyBartFast]

Before you ask for "improvements" or "advancements" in markers, hoppers, or other paintball equipment you should answer one questions first:

What changes do you want to see to the GAME of paintball.

A game or sport will only be mature and gain wide spread acceptance once it has defined itself.

Think of the myriad "advancements" that could be made to football, hockey, baseball, even technology driven sports like NASCAR, F1...

Even taking the examples to the absurd, fishing is easier a night with lights, or even better with explosives, but against the rules of sport fishing competition.

Why do established games and sports limit themselves in this way? Because changing the equipment changes the game.

[BigEvil]

they are already considered firearms in my home town. My buddy got a ticket for discharging a firearm in his back yard, when all he was doing was tweaking his gun. My home town also considers BB guns firearms on the same grade as real guns. (I dont consider BB guns real guns)


Some places are still way behind the times with liberal definitions like that. In many areas, paintball guns are considered "toys". IF you are stupid, and say, shoot up someone or something with them I think then it would fall under "assult" or "vandalism".

I believe there is still a BAN in NYC on paintball guns. Im not 100% sure on that though. Doesnt mean you cant get them, but your not supposed to have them in city limits. I know there were efforts to get that law changed but I dont know what ever became of it.

[txaggie08]

Honestly at this point, my interest is more in nice cosmetic upgrades and lower costs. The guns shoot plenty fast enough.


BTW, I have to say it, the shocker is the crappiest design for a marker ive ever seen in my life. Ive helped, or done myself,disassemble old shockers, mags, bushmasters, impulses, intimidators, angels, spyders and autocockers(maybe more, im not thinking of any right now). I sat down to help a friend lube an 04 yesterday. Why the hell would you design a gun that A. that difficult to get apart, yet has to be lubed regularly and B.is built one out of the cheap *** ultra thin crap metal(i realise aluminum is light but the bolt and guide just feel cheap) and call it "high end". SP knows better, i actualy am impressed with how the impulse is built quality wise. the old shockers were rocks if i remember right. I will never buy a newer shocker PERIOD.

[Lohman446]

Honestly at this point, my interest is more in nice cosmetic upgrades and lower costs. The guns shoot plenty fast enough.


BTW, I have to say it, the shocker is the crappiest design for a marker ive ever seen in my life. Ive helped, or done myself,disassemble old shockers, mags, bushmasters, impulses, intimidators, angels, spyders and autocockers(maybe more, im not thinking of any right now). I sat down to help a friend lube an 04 yesterday. Why the hell would you design a gun that A. that difficult to get apart, yet has to be lubed regularly and B.is built one out of the cheap *** ultra thin crap metal(i realise aluminum is light but the bolt and guide just feel cheap) and call it "high end". SP knows better, i actualy am impressed with how the impulse is built quality wise. the old shockers were rocks if i remember right. I will never buy a newer shocker PERIOD.

Unless you strip the hole how is a Shocker hard to get apart?

[Patron God of Pirates]

I want the trigger frame up front and the fore grip in the back at an angle like a Y-Frame (Y-Aft-Grip). No, I'm serrious! I also want the tank attached to the new aft grip instead of the trigger frame.

Watch how tourny paintball is played, no one even holds the grip frame. All the weight is born by the foregrip (while firing). This makes no sense becuase the majority of weight is situated towards the back and the heaviest item (tank) is attached to the grip frame.

It seems radical, but use your hands and imagine it (left hand on aft grip, right hand for walking). See, way more comfy. Niether wrist is ganked when playing tight (the way you should).

I may just make a whole post about this with a drawing.

:shooting:

[Pneumagger]

I don't know if it's been said, but how about hoppers that can feed up and beyond an actual on gun 40-50 bps? It would be inpressive and fun to see the best of the best wave their bps-penises around with equipment to support their superguns instead of just hearing a gun click 40 bps.

[Pneumagger]

I want the trigger frame up front and the fore grip in the back at an angle like a Y-Frame (Y-Aft-Grip). No, I'm serrious! I also want the tank attached to the new aft grip instead of the trigger frame.

Watch how tourny paintball is played, no one even holds the grip frame. All the weight is born by the foregrip (while firing). This makes no sense becuase the majority of weight is situated towards the back and the heaviest item (tank) is attached to the grip frame.

It seems radical, but use your hands and imagine it (left hand on aft grip, right hand for walking). See, way more comfy. Niether wrist is ganked when playing tight (the way you should).

I may just make a whole post about this with a drawing.

:shooting:

meh, I don't know. Typically you aim, steady, snap, and adjust with the front grip because of the leverage it gives you. putting a trigger on the front grip would ruin the ergonomics of the gun. you would have to do the aim adjustments with the back hand - unless you want to aim and pull ther trigger with the same hand simultaneoulsy...but as you stated no one really holds the frame when shooting anyhow...so now you're pretty much just stuck with adjusting the aim with the back hand using an inferior leverage point.

I think that would be like swinging a baseball bat crosshanded or something - just plain unamerican :D

[Patron God of Pirates]

meh, I don't know. Typically you aim, steady, snap, and adjust with the front grip because of the leverage it gives you. putting a trigger on the front grip would ruin the ergonomics of the gun. you would have to do the aim adjustments with the back hand - unless you want to aim and pull ther trigger with the same hand simultaneoulsy...but as you stated no one really holds the frame when shooting anyhow...so now you're pretty much just stuck with adjusting the aim with the back hand using an inferior leverage point.

I think that would be like swinging a baseball bat crosshanded or something - just plain unamerican :D


Aim, Steady, and Snap would all be easier without "gank-wrist". The leverage point does not change beacuse the weight distribution (tank on rear grip) is still the same. You would still be rotating around the heaviest point. Only here the weight is more comfortable to bear, and the more coordinated hand is doing the aiming. Without the need for the aiming hand to also bear the weight of the marker, aim could easily be adjusted with an open palm (rotate left) or extended thumb (rotate right). It would also be easier to hold steady while shooting.

Add to that, switching the grips would also seem to require the marker to be electro or PNUEMATIC in order to off set the firing mechanisim. Good for you, no? ;) ;) ;)

[Lohman446]

Most the weight is held by my arm adn the tank.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Most the weight is held by my arm adn the tank.

This is just my point. People have adjusted to play the game very succesfully, but all you need to do is look at a gank-wristed speedballer to know that the design is hardly form following function. You shouldn't need to shoulder/hug/tuck your marker in order to comfotably bear the weight.

All of this is, of course, IMHO

[Lohman446]

This is just my point. People have adjusted to play the game very succesfully, but all you need to do is look at a gank-wristed speedballer to know that the design is hardly form following function. You shouldn't need to shoulder/hug/tuck your marker in order to comfotably bear the weight.

All of this is, of course, IMHO

Cradling the tank is functional, keeping my elbow in just cradles the tank. Could be wrong but it seems natural enough

[Pneumagger]

I run remote alot. 1 tank and 2-4 pods on the pack means I can shoot one handed with a ULE mag and an apache if need be.

[Tim Taylor]

Bluetooth or some other wireless connectivity on fields would be great. It could be set up in such a way that they would fire only when the field sends the 'Game-On' code to the gun. When a player is eliminated their gun would be shut off. This would greatly help in safety on and off the field.

The code would also set the guns to the field limits based on player preferences. It would also be possible to set up handicaps for more advanced players vs novice players. Limiting firing rates based on player level might be interesting.

Number of shots taken, BPS, etc. could all be calculated.

Yes, Bluetooth can be hacked but guns can be altered to go beyond the rules so a cheater will always be.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Cradling the tank is functional, keeping my elbow in just cradles the tank. Could be wrong but it seems natural enough

While I'm being radical, the tank should be turned around so it is toataly out of the way. :)




I run remote alot. 1 tank and 2-4 pods on the pack means I can shoot one handed with a ULE mag and an apache if need be.

Here is idea that is under used and frowned apon for no good reason. Take it a step further. Run your remote through your pack belt to a 360 swivel in front of you and then to the marker. This way you can switch hands and play tight without worying about the air line...


;) :) :D I got a million of these

[paint magnet]

This is just my point. People have adjusted to play the game very succesfully, but all you need to do is look at a gank-wristed speedballer to know that the design is hardly form following function. You shouldn't need to shoulder/hug/tuck your marker in order to comfotably bear the weight.

All of this is, of course, IMHO


I doubt it would take off. Look at the times ergonomics have been tried before - the Z grip, WDP Space frame, Y grip and numerous copies thereof--all were great ideas and worked great, but for some reason they just didn't sell. Making a great product doesn't always guarantee it will catch on.

[Patron God of Pirates]

I doubt it would take off. Look at the times ergonomics have been tried before - the Z grip, WDP Space frame, Y grip and numerous copies thereof--all were great ideas and worked great, but for some reason they just didn't sell. Making a great product doesn't always guarantee it will catch on.

That is the crux of the matter. It's all about marketing after all. But then Rouge did start this thread on AO, one of the few consumer bases that seems to prefer merit over hype.

[NewbieMagMan10988]

i Think we need reball like projectiles that are not only reuseable, but leave a mark of some sort. This way you have all the benifits of reball, with less cheating.

I think we all know its easy to cheat in reball. Thats my big complait abuot it.



Newer feilds would be nice, differnt kinds of bunkers/layouts.


Who knows...

Mike

[Jack & Coke]

-Mechanical
-Easy to walk (15+ bps)
-Durable
-Light
-Can be fit with a 12gram adapater and a pump arm
-Efficient
-Runs on co2



with the exception of "easy to walk", you have just described a Blazer.

maybe one of these days someone will experiment and make a pneumatic grip frame conversion for the blazer...

mechanical and fast:
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/animation/blazer-test-.MPG

normal version:
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/1811/067sx.jpg

pump version:
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/8430/112gr.jpg

electro version:
https://palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/images/EBZBB.jpg

CO2? Normal single stab is fine, but for the ultimate in CO2 regulation, go dual stabs:
http://palmer-pursuit.com/images/blazer/blazer-engraved-hidden-gp-sig.JPG

[RogueFactor]

with the exception of "easy to walk", you have just described a Blazer.


Yeah, but its old technology. PPS hasnt made anything new for their markers since forever ;)

[Pneumagger]

maybe one of these days someone will experiment and make a pneumatic grip frame conversion for the blazer...

I'll take a blazer on... I ain't afraid!

/busts out dremmel
//thinks twice (how does a blazer work :confused: )
///Gives a sinister laugh out loud and picks up 2nd dremmel

[RogueFactor]

Investing in newer and better fields would require a field owner to see a greater return on that investment.

If fields are closing down, they dont have enough to stay open let alone invest in new or better.

The new/better fields open up, and need to charge a higher price for admission because its new and better.

Guess what?....players go to the cheaper crappier fields cuz its cheaper. When it closes the reason was "nice fields, but it was too expensive".

I know it would be nice to have newer, better fields...I just dont know how that is possible.

[Lohman446]

Investing in newer and better fields would require a field owner to see a greater return on that investment.

If fields are closing down, they dont have enough to stay open let alone invest in new or better.

The new/better fields open up, and need to charge a higher price for admission because its new and better.

Guess what?....players go to the cheaper crappier fields cuz its cheaper. When it closes the reason was "nice fields, but it was too expensive".

I know it would be nice to have newer, better fields...I just dont know how that is possible.

Ready for this one. The reason most fields close is because those starting them up have no clue of standard business returns when they are starting, are (generally) unprepared for the amount of work that goes into a business and the less than spectacular return on investment. I hear too many people who think its some get rich scheme. Most fields fail because of a lack of a decent and reasonable business plan.

[the mag guy]

I don't know the laws on paintball fields and such, and though it is against some kind of city ordinance, I'd like to see indoor fields that are in city. I think if paintball were easier to access or was more in the public view, more people would come or atleast come to watch. Where I am currently living, the closest field is over an hour away. Hunstville, though not a big town, has plenty of places to make a field, whether it be indoor or out. I dont think an in city place would be successful here b/c of the towns size. But......

Clear across the US there are old walmarts and targets that are just sitting there abandoned. I've always wondered what if I went in with a group and we bought one. Make a couple indoor fields mayber an AIR field or two and a clever drain system to wash it all down at the end of the day. I think it would be pretty sweet to wash down the filed each day with the fire sprinkler system.

I know there are a lot of obstacles that I would have to overcome (money, law and so on) before I could make a field, but, if possible, I really think having a close field would be successfull.

[p8ntball72]

Do you think if walmart and target couldn't make a profit and had to close a store that a paintball field would? :tard:

[rmg]

Being fairly new to paintball, I think the most improvement can be made with better accuracy. In other words, a better paintball. I have tried the more expensive brands but still find them lacking. Yes, I understand barrel to paint matching, but I don't find a great improvement from the cheap stuff. The paint needs to be more consistant and round, cheaper would be nice, but you can't have everything.

I would also echo some of the others about "better" fields. Easier and cheaper for the field owners to build and maintain, allowing the owners to maintain the fields better. Sorry, no real ideas on how to do this.

Only my opinions of course.

[wjr]

"I don't know the laws on paintball fields and such, and though it is against some kind of city ordinance, I'd like to see indoor fields that are in city. I think if paintball were easier to access or was more in the public view, more people would come or atleast come to watch.'


Some fields are like that. I played at one up in Ohio that was in the middle of a suburb right next to an apartment complex and it wasnt even an indoor field.

[SlartyBartFast]

I know it would be nice to have newer, better fields...I just dont know how that is possible.

Franchising. Reduced risk for the franchisee, with prepared plans and procedures, and the power of bulk buying of supplies and advertising, in return for guaranteed revenues for the franchiser. I beleive Pev's for one offers franchises.


The reason most fields close is because those starting them up have no clue of standard business returns when they are starting, are (generally) unprepared for the amount of work that goes into a business and the less than spectacular return on investment. I hear too many people who think its some get rich scheme. Most fields fail because of a lack of a decent and reasonable business plan.

Solved by franchising. A good franchise prepares the investor for what to expect and ultimately offer franchises only to those investors that are a good match for their business plan.

[spwz99]

Do you think if walmart and target couldn't make a profit and had to close a store that a paintball field would? :tard:


What about instances like my home town where they closed the smaller Wal-Mart to open a Supercenter? :tard: They were making enough of a profit that they outgrew their old building.

I would like to see the sport get cheaper. I can understand a field with an admission fee OR field paint only rules. But not both. If the "admission fee" is just another name for all day air, then fine. But dont charge me to get in and then screw me when I buy a case of paint. I personally believe that if paintball prices would drop significantly, either due to increased efficency in production or some other break through, then we would have fewer people quitting the sport because its too expensive and they can only play until they have to buy a car or pay for college. The increase in the number of players who stay with the sport alone would probably be enough to cover any losses in immediate profits, let alone the number of new players the sport would gain if prices went down. I know several people who don't play any more or never did because it's too expensive.

Personally I can't stand the punk, bad*** image that so many players cling to today. GROW UP. The NBA is an excellent example of what paintball could look like if people don't change. Of course it is harder to vandalize something with a basketball, than a paintball marker, but that is something we just have to deal with. I'm really talking about the number of snot nosed punks with an attitude so invasive I don't even want to play on the same field with them. Here is where self regulation needs to happen in the sport. If people like that understood that no one likes to play with them or thought what they were doing was 'cool' then maybe they would change, or, maybe they would leave the sport. Either way, no big loss for me.

In short, I would love to see a drop in the price of paint, and the sport lose its punk, outlaw image and gain a legitimate face to those who don't play.

[Lohman446]

Solved by franchising. A good franchise prepares the investor for what to expect and ultimately offer franchises only to those investors that are a good match for their business plan.

There are problems involving the atmosphere around many fields here. You add a new hurdle. Do you honestly think fields that offer trade of field fees / paint / proshop discounts are complying with labor and pay laws, including taxing, social security withholdings, worker's compensation insurance, etc. ? There is no way this is going to be tolerated in a corporate style system.

[G Squat]

I'd like to see a roller bearing trigger for a mag, or maybe a newer lighter rail with a newly designed sear axle pin... Oh, wait. Rogue already did that. Awesome work. I will have one very soon. They'll work on my ultimate mag frame, correct?

[spwz99]

Do you honestly think fields that offer trade of field fees / paint / proshop discounts are complying with labor and pay laws, including taxing, social security withholdings, worker's compensation insurance, etc. ? There is no way this is going to be tolerated in a corporate style system.

What about companies that offer employee discounts? how is that any different?

[MoeMag]

I think paintballs problem is a lack of positive exposure to the public. “People” look at paintball and see people shooting at other people for sport… like hunting. Most of us think of it as an advanced form of tag. Now yesterday I had a lady come in the shop and looked at the gun wall and straight up said to my face…”this is where all the militia crazies hang out.” That made me go into my defense mode. I don’t take lightly to that. To all you scenario players out there… I have no problem with what you do because I am involved in paintball and understand it, its how the sport started and we should not loose that, but most “people” don’t get it. ESPN I think did a good thing by putting paintball on TV. It noticeably made summer business pick up for the weeks it was on, but its back to normal now (at 115*f no one plays paintball here in the summer). But honestly its like watching ping-pong or chess on TV. Paintball needs Monday night football to happen with it. We need a professional format of play that can be put on TV and made entertaining. That alone I think would make things go nuts.

Also NPPL and PSP does pretty good about holding events in major cities, but I think if they had an event tour, to many diffrent cities, kind of a concert type situation it would do really well too. I mean only die hard paintball fans are going to drive all the way to a major city to watch it.
I don’t know but Paintball just doesn’t look that good on TV. It might be an in person kind of thing.

Anyway I may have gone off too long but, we need to let the public see what it is, and get more into it, thus allowing the companies make more money to put back into product development. That alone I think would help us all the most.

[SlartyBartFast]

What about companies that offer employee discounts? how is that any different?

That's different because it is above and beyond minimum labour standards. Not in lieu of them.

Plus, in many jurisdictions employee discounts or freebies and other benefits are taxable as income.

[Lohman446]

That's different because it is above and beyond minimum labour standards. Not in lieu of them.

Plus, in many jurisdictions employee discounts or freebies and other benefits are taxable as income.

Supposed to be above and beyond. Do you really think, at least in many places, they are? Do you really think they are reported properly, at least most of them?

[SlartyBartFast]

Supposed to be above and beyond. Do you really think, at least in many places, they are? Do you really think they are reported properly, at least most of them?

Uhm Lohman, I was reponding to the question above. I'm in agreement that most small operator paintball fields and stores do not follow the above the table practices.

However consider this: Oraganisations and companies that do everything above board usually have better profitability and a long term future. Thos barely getting by a relying on stop-gap or under-the-table methods, while they may shine in the short term, are usually doomed to failure sooner or later.

If the business can't survive doing everything above board, it usually mean one or more business fundamnetals are being ignored or overlooked.

[Lohman446]

Uhm Lohman, I was reponding to the question above. I'm in agreement that most small operator paintball fields and stores do not follow the above the table practices.

However consider this: Oraganisations and companies that do everything above board usually have better profitability and a long term future. Thos barely getting by a relying on stop-gap or under-the-table methods, while they may shine in the short term, are usually doomed to failure sooner or later.

If the business can't survive doing everything above board, it usually mean one or more business fundamnetals are being ignored or overlooked.

I agree whole heartedly there. However, the below board methods are not a cause of going under, just another symptom of generally poor business practices.

I don't know. I can go to the field at anytime (the field owner lives there), get whatever I want, pay him back whenever I see him again. I can play at anytime I want to drag a group out there, and open the store and run a tab should it not be open when I am. I help set up fields, voice and carry through a lot of changes to improve things. If I want to play paintball at 5AM in the indoor I can. If I happen to jimmy a lock to get in, its no big deal. I have a lot of fun because the people I play with, and allow me to play, are my friends. If I had to answer to some corporate policy I would probably cease playing. His business practices are strong enough that he has been there "forever" and I know enough to not think there is any major concern of a problem in the future.

/Yeh, I'm a jerk
//Yes, yes I do thing I'm just that much better than everyone else :D
///Ok, I'm not really the only one.

[paint magnet]

Yeah, but its old technology. PPS hasnt made anything new for their markers since forever ;)

Kind of hard to improve on perfection, eh?


i Think we need reball like projectiles that are not only reuseable, but leave a mark of some sort. This way you have all the benifits of reball, with less cheating.

The marking reball idea sounds good at first until you consider the fact that you're going to have them lying around all over the place. Try making a run to a bunker walking on marbles. You'd also have to deal with the issue of people fighting over whose were whose after the game was over.

[RogueFactor]

Ready for this one. The reason most fields close is because those starting them up have no clue of standard business returns when they are starting, are (generally) unprepared for the amount of work that goes into a business and the less than spectacular return on investment. I hear too many people who think its some get rich scheme. Most fields fail because of a lack of a decent and reasonable business plan.

I see that more with shops than fields. Most that open pb shops(like bicycle shops), think that retail pb is a sure-fire winner. Then they realize its not.

For whatever reason fields close, ultimately its because the field isnt making enough money. That can be because people stop showing up, or the costs of the field are greater than the revenue coming in from those that do show up.

Either way, there isnt yet a single field as the "model" field to copy. If there was, everyone would copy that model, and prosper. Or that field would expand across the country with their successful model. I dont see either of these happening yet.

And the problem with that is, what works in one region of the country can easily fail in another.



Clear across the US there are old walmarts and targets that are just sitting there abandoned. I've always wondered what if I went in with a group and we bought one.

Those buildings, and the land they sit on, are VERY expensive. I looked into that years ago, it wasnt feasable. Those big companies see that land as an investment when they purchase it. Either to sell to developers when they leave, or to lease to other big-box retail.



Franchising. Reduced risk for the franchisee, with prepared plans and procedures, and the power of bulk buying of supplies and advertising, in return for guaranteed revenues for the franchiser. I beleive Pev's for one offers franchises.

The concept of a franchise is sound. Franchises usually require 2 things to be successful 1. A proven system. 2. A matured and stabilized industry. Paintball is far from either of those.

Example. Starbucks didnt create their industry overnight. It took multiple decades, and only until recently was it capable of successful franchises once it built its proven system, and the industry stabilized enough to become mature enough to be accepted(meaning, 30 years ago it wasnt widely accepted to buy gourmet coffee at $3 a cup)by its branding. This is inherantly required to the franchise concept.


I'd like to see a roller bearing trigger for a mag, or maybe a newer lighter rail with a newly designed sear axle pin... Oh, wait. Rogue already did that. Awesome work. I will have one very soon. They'll work on my ultimate mag frame, correct?

Yes, they will :D