shot an ion today..

[zyklon69]

Wow, i was seriously amazed, i've been a mag owner for many years, and i was just blown away by this gun, a $200 gun at that. no wonder the resale value of mags are crummy. It was a stock ion too, amazing. What do you guys think of these?? I wish i could get an electronic trigger like that for my mag.

[Cow hunter]

spydermag might be just what you want, then you have the speed and the mag reliability. but really the ion is old news, have you been under a rock for, what is it now, 2 years? :)

[stop whining buy a mag]

Wow, i was seriously amazed, i've been a mag owner for many years, and i was just blown away by this gun, a $200 gun at that. no wonder the resale value of mags are crummy. It was a stock ion too, amazing. What do you guys think of these?? I wish i could get an electronic trigger like that for my mag.

Everything about an Ion is terrible. That is why you see an upgrade for every single Ion part. I would only shoot an Ion if I was given $700 to upgrade every last piece of that gun so there was nothing stock on it.

[Pneumagger]

they are quick. Great BPS for the dollar for sure. ION reliability leaves something to be desired, but in general if you treat an ION well it may treat you well back. There were 4-5 IONS at the field today and all shot great.

[geekwarrior]

I stopped at the SP booth at the SoCal open yesterday to see if they could fix my Maxflow. There customer service sucks. 5 sloppy looking guys sitting around. Asked for help, one guy grumbled and got up. Looked like he was stoned. They didn't have the part they needed in any of there 6 fancy toolchests. They just sanded the bur on the metal peice, swapped an Oring, and told me "good luck" with a smirk and a laugh. Took it home...not fixed. :mad:

[Pneumagger]

You need some cocker gnomes in there

ION gnomes are way harder to please than cocker gnomes. I think Mag gnomes are parapalegics (sp?) because they never revolt :D

[Toll]

2 Ion's at the field today

Both managed to balls up. One the on-off button came off the board (these are new in box, just out from the pro-shop) and the other worked fine a for little while and then just encountered huge drop off, no matter what we put on it (new batteries, fresh tank, etc)

Out of the box they were a pain in the ***.

[dahoeb]

I stopped at the SP booth at the SoCal open yesterday to see if they could fix my Maxflow. There customer service sucks. 5 sloppy looking guys sitting around. Asked for help, one guy grumbled and got up. Looked like he was stoned. They didn't have the part they needed in any of there 6 fancy toolchests. They just sanded the bur on the metal peice, swapped an Oring, and told me "good luck" with a smirk and a laugh. Took it home...not fixed. :mad:

i had a similar experience with sp. my impulse board was broke, so i mailed it in to them. they went out of their way to replace the hammer assembly which never game me any problems, and according to the reciept the marker was fired and chronoed before they mailed it back to me.
however, i gassed up the marker, and they replaced the bad board with ANOTHER bad board. interesting how they chronoed it while it still had a malfunctioning board. i was so fed up i just went out, paid 75 dollars and replaced the board myself, and voila, it worked.

[RRfireblade]

Great gun for the price IMO. Only real upgrade it 'needs' is a trigger.


Beyong that everything else works perfectly on par with the cost and performance of the marker. Putting $700 into it is completely rediculous and un-neccesary. It was never meant for that but then again , people put that much into Spyders so to each their own i guess. ;)

These things are Rentals all over the feilds around here the the feild owners all say they love 'em. Fast , easy to maintain and cheap to fix. Plus the Renters love 'em to death.

Out of the box, I've never come across any issues that the owners shouldn't learn how to fix anyway. Most common thing is un seated hoses , about as easy a fix as it gets.

Bottom line, you usually get what you pay for. In this case you get a little bit more and the whole paintball world has been trying to catch up ever since. :)

[Lenny]

I don't know. I know Ions are both loved and hated for their price, quality, and all of that, but my friend has one and played with it stock for along time. He only had one problem with it ever (board fried, he got a blackheart) and just purchased a new bolt for it. It really doen't kick all that much and the accuracy (with a Freak) is really good. It's consitency sucks, however. He was shooting +-15. (I was playing +-25 today ONLY because I didn't feel like lubing the reg internals. Normally it's +- 3-5) Anywho, I say it's sweet.

Though, mags kick more arse! :shooting: Stick with it, there are ways to make it faster.

[zyklon69]

is there an electronic trigger i can get for my minimag.. it's got the level 10, retro valve, nitro. bleh bleh bleh. I love my mag, would never sell it, but i would like some more fire power to keep up with these kiddies these days.

[VFX_Fenix]

Spyder/Mag conversions, Hyperframe, Boo Yah, E-Mag lowers. Take your pick and enjoy.

[deathstalker]

...That is why you see an upgrade for every single Ion part.
This can be said for almost every marker currently being manufactured, and quite a few that aren't anymore. The only ones off the top of my head that this doesn't apply to (with the exception of recently-released markers) are PPS and CCI products. The existence of an aftermarket does not mean the base product "sucks".

For a sub-$200 marker, its a decent value.

The only thing that makes it seem amazing is the rebound feature. Remove that, and it isnt as wonderful as it would seem. One of the biggest complaints is the sloppy trigger. Then the foregrip reg. Then the feedneck. Then the barrel.

As far as function, its not significantly more efficient than a mag. So youll need to upgrade that too(with a bolt kit). And getting a better board is an upgrade SP sells too, so you can add that to the bill.

Dont forget, youll end up paying as much for an Air tank as the marker, add that to the list. And as far as bodies go, the stock one isnt all that great. Be prepared to buy an aftermarket body.

So, all in all....by the time youre done with it, youll have an $800 ion:eek:

Youd have been better off just buying a quality ramping marker in that price range from the start.:cheers:
The "improvements" you listed can be applied to virtually any marker available. Not only that, most people buy "improvements" no matter what marker they own. How many times have you seen a post from someone saying they are waiting for their marker to arrive and are already asking what "upgrades" they should buy for it? Even if he bought that $800 ramping marker, you and I both know more money would be spent "improving" it. This is an OOOOOOOOOLD argument in the paintball world. Anyone and everyone who has ever bought and upgraded a budget-minded marker has faced the same, ahem, constructive criticism. "You spent $XXX on that? You could have just bought Y marker instead (and then upgraded it with a new valve, bolt, frame, body, board, feedneck, barrel, grips, trigger, etc.)." Not to mention you can use CO2 with the Ion (and many other entry-level markers), so an HPA tank is not a necessity.

Looking at my E-Mag, I have two ULE bodies, one vert and one Warp, clamping feedneck, X-Valve, ULE rail, huge and heavy battery/foregrip, and I usually use a J&J Edge kit with it. With the exception of the battery, none of these things came with it from the factory. As soon as school begins in September and I'm earning a paycheck again, I plan to go XMOD, a $100+ option. I'm afraid to total up what my $450 "bargain" has really cost me.

[Pneumagger]

I don't know if that's true for all Markers. I shot a stock dark ego yesterday. It doesn't need one bit of improvement and other than a user wanting a cosmetic change, that marker is perfection. User said he paid $1800 for it new! What a deal :rolleyes:

[Lohman446]

Funny. When I bought my Ion I changed the feedneck and put a drop on it and shot it without any complaints. Is there room for improvement? Yeh... there is in most markers. However, for the $250 that was dealer cost at the time it was a fine marker.

[SR_matt]

im sorry when a company releases a marker and with in 2 months every single part has an after market replacement (or just that you can build one from teh ground up with non SP parts) it obviously has way to many problems
-matt

[iambored]

My friend got an ion and thought I was crazy for not gettin one. Wonder what he did with...

[Lohman446]

im sorry when a company releases a marker and with in 2 months every single part has an after market replacement (or just that you can build one from teh ground up with non SP parts) it obviously has way to many problems
-matt

Why? The marker performs just fine stock. Upgrades are available. I don't see the problem? The aftermarket rushed to one of the hottest selling markers of all time? What a surprise... :rolleyes:

[SR_matt]

theres no other marker around that has upgrades for every part 2 months after the fisrt release. my impressions of the ions are of the first 6 months of them being out and working at a field, and from what ive seen i would debate that it works fine stock but thats my oppinion
-matt

[ZEROte]

im sorry when a company releases a marker and with in 2 months every single part has an after market replacement (or just that you can build one from teh ground up with non SP parts) it obviously has way to many problems
-matt

its called customization. people like different things. it doesnt mean that the ones on there arent good, just that there is an option to change it if you dont like it.

[bentothejam1n]

im sorry when a company releases a marker and with in 2 months every single part has an after market replacement (or just that you can build one from teh ground up with non SP parts) it obviously has way to many problems
-matt
Companies are just capitalizing on the ion's massive popularity. You can build a mag with aftermarket parts besides half of the vavle. i think way too many people jump on the "ion hating train" just because they hear that the ion sucks from somebody and they believe it. It kind of reminds me of a highschool gov't class :rofl:

[stop whining buy a mag]

This can be said for almost every marker currently being manufactured, and quite a few that aren't anymore. The only ones off the top of my head that this doesn't apply to (with the exception of recently-released markers) are PPS and CCI products. The existence of an aftermarket does not mean the base product "sucks".


O rly? How many upgrades are available in the Kingman line of markers. What can you get for a 98/A-5 that is not made by Tippmann. Quality is obvious. Go on PBReview and search for Ion. Then look at how many upgrades they have listed. 62 upgrades for a gun. When you search Tippmann, you'll notice that the majority of the upgrades come from Tippmann or BT. Most of them are either RT's, E-bolts, or Double Triggers.

I still can't believe people defend the Ion. For a new player that does not know what to expect out of a gun, the Ion is probably the way in. For anyone who plays on a regular basis and does tournaments the Ion sucks. Too many corners cut by SP.

[paintman1234]

if you were a company, and saw a $250 marker for sale with 17 bps an option you would make as many upgrades for it as you can.

for those saying the body looks ugly, sure its made of plastic, but I hate to say it but look at the mag bodies....(this coming from a mag owner) your stuck with a straight tube unless you want to fork out HUGE!!! amounts of money for a deadly wind body or a slug...

Ion's are right now the best value in paintball, sure they arnt top of the line out of the box but did you really expect them to be when you paid $200 for it?

:cheers:

[robnix]

for those saying the body looks ugly, sure its made of plastic, but I hate to say it but look at the mag bodies....(this coming from a mag owner) your stuck with a straight tube unless you want to fork out HUGE!!! amounts of money for a deadly wind body or a slug...


It's all personal taste. I like the straight tube over most any other marker out there. It's a clean and elegant look that no other marker does as well. Some people like the uber milled look of some markers, some like the riceboi look of the ion. It's all personal taste.

:)

[paintman1234]

I aggree,

personally I think bolth are ugly, But I could care less how it looks... as long as it shoots people im happy. But if i wanted to I could get a new ion body on ebay for like under $100

I dont know what kartas and stuff are going for latly but probly around $250? You can see the diffrence anyway.

:argh:

[MoeMag]

Hey I bought one of these little monsters for a backup gun and well...
Not bad.
I still need to put a reg on it but other than that all of the internals have been replaced.
It has a virtue board, qev, shocktech bolt, clamping feedneck, and a freak barrel.
I will say straight up, these guns are cool. there are a few problems with them straight out of the box, but that is just an example of SP quality control. I have had to deal with numerous buttons fall off the board, screws stripped from the factory, frame/body screws not alighning, bad boards, feednecks stripping out, eye boards corroding, and triggers breaking just to name a few but thankfully not on mine. but after all that, they really are nice little guns.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d53/MoeRoark/DSCN0150.jpg

[Jack & Coke]

RRfireblade and deathstalker are correct.

As far as performance, reliability, and customization/upgrade options go, the Ion is a great value at $199 (http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;?ProductID=P6XAqArbGfgAAAEBJ9hekf3f)!

If that was my budget for an electro paintball gun, I'd certainly consider it my top choice.

[Banshee23]

O rly? How many upgrades are available in the Kingman line of markers. What can you get for a 98/A-5 that is not made by Tippmann. Quality is obvious. Go on PBReview and search for Ion. Then look at how many upgrades they have listed. 62 upgrades for a gun.

How does having alot of aftermarket parts available for a marker qualify it as being garbage? I can buy an aftermarket upgrade for every single part on a Cocker too, doesn't mean it's a bad marker. I'm not a huge ION fan but lots of people around here shoot em with little to no problems.

[Lohman446]

The more I hear "reasoning" on why the Ion sucks the more I realize how much some people are like zealots. :D No offense

[geekwarrior]

I don't think they're too bad...definately need an on/off, and I hate the front reg, the thing spins all around and just feels cheap, but replace that, the on/off, get a clamping feedneck, and its not a bad little gun...

[stop whining buy a mag]

How does having alot of aftermarket parts available for a marker qualify it as being garbage? I can buy an aftermarket upgrade for every single part on a Cocker too, doesn't mean it's a bad marker. I'm not a huge ION fan but lots of people around here shoot em with little to no problems.

My hate on the Ion comes from the fact that I would never shoot one for a few reasons. Number one being it is Smart Parts. I don't care what they do legally, everything about their company just sucks from service to quality control.

The Ion isn't bad if you don't plan on playing seriously. If you play rec once a month then the Ion is an option. Of course, there are many other guns in that price range that will do just as well. I'd rather pick up a simple RT Pro than a slightly upgraded Ion.

When you want to play on a competitive level, the Ion is lacking in every area even though it is marketed to be the cheap tournament gun. So many little things would have to be done for me to even consider using one. I'd rather play with an E-Bolted A-5. You'd need a new board, new trigger, clamping feedneck, new barrel, new regulator, QEV, and something to replace the ASA. Even after all that the Ion feels cheap and is more of a headache than any other gun. The way it must be taken apart for little fixes is probably the worst overall design. Smart Parts could have done better for just a little more money.

[RusskiX]

This can be said for almost every marker currently being manufactured, and quite a few that aren't anymore. The only ones off the top of my head that this doesn't apply to (with the exception of recently-released markers) are PPS and CCI products. The existence of an aftermarket does not mean the base product "sucks".

The "improvements" you listed can be applied to virtually any marker available. Not only that, most people buy "improvements" no matter what marker they own. How many times have you seen a post from someone saying they are waiting for their marker to arrive and are already asking what "upgrades" they should buy for it? Even if he bought that $800 ramping marker, you and I both know more money would be spent "improving" it. This is an OOOOOOOOOLD argument in the paintball world. Anyone and everyone who has ever bought and upgraded a budget-minded marker has faced the same, ahem, constructive criticism. "You spent $XXX on that? You could have just bought Y marker instead (and then upgraded it with a new valve, bolt, frame, body, board, feedneck, barrel, grips, trigger, etc.)." Not to mention you can use CO2 with the Ion (and many other entry-level markers), so an HPA tank is not a necessity.

Looking at my E-Mag, I have two ULE bodies, one vert and one Warp, clamping feedneck, X-Valve, ULE rail, huge and heavy battery/foregrip, and I usually use a J&J Edge kit with it. With the exception of the battery, none of these things came with it from the factory. As soon as school begins in September and I'm earning a paycheck again, I plan to go XMOD, a $100+ option. I'm afraid to total up what my $450 "bargain" has really cost me.

QFT :hail:


The more I hear "reasoning" on why the Ion sucks the more I realize how much some people are like zealots. No offense

QFMFT ;)

[SpecialBlend2786]

My hate on the Ion comes from the fact that I would never shoot one for a few reasons. Number one being it is Smart Parts. I don't care what they do legally, everything about their company just sucks from service to quality control.

The Ion isn't bad if you don't plan on playing seriously. If you play rec once a month then the Ion is an option. Of course, there are many other guns in that price range that will do just as well. I'd rather pick up a simple RT Pro than a slightly upgraded Ion.

When you want to play on a competitive level, the Ion is lacking in every area even though it is marketed to be the cheap tournament gun. So many little things would have to be done for me to even consider using one. I'd rather play with an E-Bolted A-5. You'd need a new board, new trigger, clamping feedneck, new barrel, new regulator, QEV, and something to replace the ASA. Even after all that the Ion feels cheap and is more of a headache than any other gun. The way it must be taken apart for little fixes is probably the worst overall design. Smart Parts could have done better for just a little more money.

Would you rather play with a stock A5?

I think you're missing the point here...

[stop whining buy a mag]

The only reason why I would not compare a stock Ion to a stock A-5 is because the A-5 does not come with the E-Bolt.

Maybe having a DM6 spoils you.

[Lee]

i really enjoy mine. only internal upgrade is a qev.

got a trigger, feedneck, asa as well and thats it. still use the stock reg and board. i've never had any trouble with mine and it's one of the early ones. number 330 i think.

decent efficiency, nice speed. good eyes. very halo worthy.

[RRfireblade]

Here's the bottom line.

Is it a good deal at $200 new?

What would 'you' buy instead for $200 new ?

How much more performance can you get else where at that price ?

What other marker at that price has as many available upgrades , both performance and cosmetic?

If the list is sooo long, why did like a cajillion IONs sell in the first 2 months ?

[Lohman446]

The one "valid" complaint I will give you guys: Its a pain to take apart. Other than that RRFireblade brings up a good point. What compares to it in the $200 range. Every marker needs an air system and a hopper so telling me I have to add those are ridiculous. Even if I give you "you have to have a barrel, and ASA, etc." I am also going to point out the number of classic mags sold without so the "user could build their own". The barrels I have found functional, as well as the reg. I don't sand loaders but this is not the only feedneck with that issue.

[geekwarrior]

The one "valid" complaint I will give you guys: Its a pain to take apart. Other than that RRFireblade brings up a good point. What compares to it in the $200 range. Every marker needs an air system and a hopper so telling me I have to add those are ridiculous. Even if I give you "you have to have a barrel, and ASA, etc." I am also going to point out the number of classic mags sold without so the "user could build their own". The barrels I have found functional, as well as the reg. I don't sand loaders but this is not the only feedneck with that issue.

Agreed...as much as some of you may hate it, Smart Parts put out a good product (relative to the price) It's a small, capable marker, with eyes and upgrades up the wahzoo....

[craltal]

Most of the bad hype comes from the problems that occured at the roll out of these guns, ie higher demand than supply so corners were cut to get them out as quickly as possible, including some assembly by shops rather than the factory. Add this to the hate that resulted from the whole patent issue and you have staunch haters.

It reminds me of the whole "CO2 is dirty so don't use it" argument.

the only issues I can see with the Ion is that it uses the much finer Impluse threading for the feednecks and the composite triggers. 99% of people's complaints about the performance of the reg never bothered to break them in properly (now if you don't like the ergonomics, that's a whole different ballgame)

But remember, we're talking about a $200 gun. It's like buying a Kia and wondering why it doesn't perform like a BMW. Both will get you from your home to the field and back and isn't that what's most important?

[Pneumagger]

The only reason why I would not compare a stock Ion to a stock A-5 is because the A-5 does not come with the E-Bolt.

Maybe having a DM6 spoils you.

OK, feel free to compare, but make it a fair comparison. A NEW tippan A5 with egrip will cost about $350. A New Ion is about what, $179?

$150 will easily get you a bunch of goodies (ASA, Feedneck, Reg) that will make the ion shooting just about as good/consitent as anything.

[Toll]

Still don't particularly like Ions (Doubt I ever will, but regardless)

http://www.ansxtreme.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=IONUPGRADEKITSILBLK

^---Is pretty neat.

All you really need is a breech, bolt tube, feedneck, reg and board....all of which can be aquired peicemeal for relatively cheap. For the price, that's quite bit you're getting in that ans package.


If some one was interested in building their own Ion, I'd start there.

[deathstalker]

O rly? How many upgrades are available in the Kingman line of markers. What can you get for a 98/A-5 that is not made by Tippmann. Quality is obvious. Go on PBReview and search for Ion. Then look at how many upgrades they have listed. 62 upgrades for a gun. When you search Tippmann, you'll notice that the majority of the upgrades come from Tippmann or BT. Most of them are either RT's, E-bolts, or Double Triggers.
Kingman has a huge aftermarket for the same reason as the Ion: A LOT OF PEOPLE OWN THEM!

There can be several reasons why Tippy and BT are almost the sole manufacturers of upgrades for Tippmanns. The first is price, the second is the target demographic, and the third is demand (a fourth might be the design of the markers). Tippmann is an established name and competing with them can prove too costly. As the demographic begins to change (actually, it's coming full circle) and the population of scenario/milsim players grows, it's quite possible we WILL see aftermarket companies releasing products for Tippies because many of those players are adults with expendable income. However, the current cost to develop upgrades and competitively price them is prohibitive.


theres no other marker around that has upgrades for every part 2 months after the fisrt release. my impressions of the ions are of the first 6 months of them being out and working at a field, and from what ive seen i would debate that it works fine stock but thats my oppinion
-matt
I might need to throw an intarweb brick at your head and SWBAM's for you to understand the existence of an aftermarket has no bearing whatsoever on the quality or performance of the base model (insert car analogy for manufacturers like BMW and Audi). Also, no other marker sold so well, so fast. As has been previously pointed out, other companies wanted in on the action. Why did they begin making parts? MONEY! Also, it doesn't seem like you ever HELD one, let alone played with one.

I guess some people still refuse to believe that the paintball industry has grown enough that companies CAN focus on turning a profit, hence the SP hate that still exists. I wish some of those people would at least evaluate the marker for what it is, rather than the company manufacturing it.

[afortuna]

Isn't it funny how many people will knock the marker that have never owned the marker? To hate a marker because of the manufacturer and not the product itself is childish at best. Bad manufacturers can make good products just like good manufacturers will make a bad product from time to time.

I've owned a stock ION. I've also upgraded it until the only stock part left was the breech.

Negatives: A. Cleaning the marker is nothing short of building a highrise apartment complex in New York. Heaven help you if you happen to break a ball at the bolt. .B. The trigger is sloppy, but an easy fix. By the way, how many Automag owners still play with the stock frame and trigger? .C. I'd like to see SP just start building them with 360 QEV's as stock. It really is a good enhancement to the marker. .D. It's not the quietest marker on the field if you add a QEV.

Positives: A. $200 or less for an electro with eyes is awesome. .B. Weight. They don't weigh very much and with a few choice upgrades weigh even less. Mine was eventually down to a hair over 2 pounds and very HOT looking to boot. .C. It's EASY to get parts for, unlike other markers on the market. Having all of the aftermarket upgrades and manufacturers means the gun can be used for a longer period of time.

I'd eventually own another as a back-up once I can get rid of the Spyder Xtra and Mongoose. Until that time, the wife won't let me. Then again, if I can get the parts together to Pneumag my stock Automag, well the ION will just have to sit on someone else's shelf.

[SR_matt]

Also, it doesn't seem like you ever HELD one, let alone played with one.
your are right that i have never owned one but i have held and shot many different ones. from stock all the way to pretty much total aftermarket parts. all of them i didnt like, they dont shoot how i like, they feel kinda of junkie, and i have seen so many people have problems with parts breaking not because they didnt know what they were doing but because of low quality pieces that were SP replacements.

-matt

[Sam5992]

i have an ion.... i like it, but i would sell it for a mag in a heartbeat. I'm saving up fora mag right now. The reason i bought it is because it was $200 and for $200 the ion if a very nice gun. It might stop working on me at some point, butive ave it for a few months and its fine... Its not great, but its not bad either.. Smart Parts did a good thing by making a cheap-good gun, but they did a bad thing by being nazis and lowering the valueof every other gun....

so yea, the ion is nice, but it not "it blew me away" nice... IMO.

[lather]

At $250 the Promaster is a much better value than the Ion imo.

[kruger]

Then, there is something else to factor in. At the time that the Ion came out, paintball was just starting on TV. There was even talk of an Olympic event involving paintball. All the little kiddies could buy a 17bps marker for about 200 bucks. Think about the marketing here. Even if only 40% of the Ions were to new players, that is a really big influx of potential buyers in the sport of paintball. It did not matter if you were playing scenario ball or speedball. The Ion was a good starter marker for either one. And, I just want to say that, yes, you can end up spending 800 on an Ion. BUT, that is over a period of time. Not everybody has 800 all at once. You can build a decent marker one upgrade at a time. The Ion was never meant to be an awsome marker, and it never will be. It is what it is. It is a good marker. A easily manufactured, fast marker that is cheap to produce. Isnt that the American way?

[Sam5992]

At $250 the Promaster is a much better value than the Ion imo.

i dunno about that..... the promaster definatly looks nicer and is metal, so it doesnt seem as junky, but my friend has been having TONS of problems with his. He wants to sell it and get an ion.... and there are not as many upgrades for the promaster. If i had the choice between the two i would have to say ion... but thats just me.

[AGDRetro]

I see the Ion as the modern Autococker in the respect that it is easy to build one from scratch do to the overwhelming amount of aftermarket parts. The market is there because the gun is so cheap, everybody can afford an Ion... why else would so many manufacturers make parts for it? Everybody has to customize!

[Lenny]

At $250 the Promaster is a much better value than the Ion imo.

I hear they have quite a few board problems, but then again I've never shot one. They do look good, though!

I hate this whole "Ion sucks" thing. If you don't like it, DON'T BUY ONE!! Easy as that!

I must defend it though, I do believe it to be well worth it for the price. I think the problem is everyone compares it to other high-end electros and various other electropneumatics. The Ion is a low-end "high-end" gun. It's not going to perform like a DM/PM or an Ego, so don't expect it to. Comparing it to other markers at the same cost, it has alot to offer. That being said, this is probably the only gun in that price range that can even stand a chance in a modern tournament.

Yeah, it's plastic, yeah it's sloppy, yeah it's ugly; but then, it has breakbeam eyes, a board that allows for 17bps, is 100% electropneumatic in function, and is only $200. That's way more than a Spyder can say.

Be honest, for it's competition, it isn't bad, not at all. When compared to more expensive markers in it's "class", it's blown away.

[lather]

Promasters have Predator lite boards, never had a problem with the board, the reg however is a different story.

[SpecialBlend2786]

Promasters have Predator lite boards, never had a problem with the board, the reg however is a different story.

Welcome to the world of ICD regs :)

[blamtro]

99% of people's complaints about the performance of the reg never bothered to break them in properly

I have never heard of a need to "break in" a regulator. How do you go about this? What are the signs of a not broken in vs. a broken in reg?

:confused:

[Pneumagger]

I have never heard of a need to "break in" a regulator. How do you go about this? What are the signs of a not broken in vs. a broken in reg?

:confused:

:confused: yes, regs need to break in for consistency. Every gun needs this.

[11 Bravo]

I have never heard of a need to "break in" a regulator. How do you go about this? What are the signs of a not broken in vs. a broken in reg?

:confused:

You just use it. When it breaks in you will see that your consistancy at the chrono has improved.

[craltal]

I have never heard of a need to "break in" a regulator. How do you go about this? What are the signs of a not broken in vs. a broken in reg?

:confused:


To quote the owner's manual for a Palmer Stabilizer:
"There will be a short break-in period, (approx. 2000-3000 shots), in order for the springs and seals in the STABILIZER to "take their set". Once the regulator has settled in, you should find little or no need to make further adjustments to it."

if a high end reg states this, I would imagine that all of them face the same circumstances, the only difference being how long it takes for this process to happen.

:cheers:

[SR_matt]

thats an over statement thoug of what it takes (after like a 1000 its pretty much broekn in... at least on teh stab)
-matt

[craltal]

thats an over statement thoug of what it takes (after like a 1000 its pretty much broekn in... at least on teh stab)
-matt

lol, it's a manufacturer doing the ole' CYA and overtsating, but the idea gets put out there.

[AZ_09]

im REALLY surprised no one has mentioned the promaster.

Promasters come with a better board and body for only $250 now. Plus the stock barrel is actually pretty good.


I myself would get the promaster over the ion, except now with the price drop you have to think....
will it be like the freestyle and get new version every year? Or, are they just going to put out more upgrades and just make it lower in price to compete with the ion

[craltal]

im REALLY surprised no one has mentioned the promaster.

Promasters come with a better board and body for only $250 now. Plus the stock barrel is actually pretty good.


I myself would get the promaster over the ion, except now with the price drop you have to think....
will it be like the freestyle and get new version every year? Or, are they just going to put out more upgrades and just make it lower in price to compete with the ion

check post #47. and the subsequent ones. The promaster is discussed.

[AZ_09]

yah, sorry,

i must have missed alot, or didnt see the second page

[the mag guy]

i think a couple of you seem to have the idea.

The bottom line is money. Seriously the insdustry feeds off the the want of customization.

Tons of people have ions. I know I'm gonna stir some stuff up here, but a lot of after market parts are like putting a flag on a go-cart. It doesnt do anything except change the look. I know there are some upgrades that actually change performance.

Selling aftermarket parts just puts more money into the company's hands. It doesnt mean the gun is crappy at all.

heres the deal. As long as there is a huge market for a specific paintball gun, there will be a huge market for aftermarket accessories.

I am a member of this aftermarket group as well. Did I really need a ULE body for my gun? no. Did I want one? yes!

[geekwarrior]

I am a member of this aftermarket group as well. Did I really need a ULE body for my gun? no. Did I want one? yes!


the ule body wasnt just for looks. It made the mag lighter, made it center feed, and made it cocker threaded to accept a wider variety of barrels. Also gave you options on clamping feednecks. I still agree with you but maybe not the best example :p

[Chaos_Theory!]

I love my ion, but it costs a tad more than $200. lol

[Ydna]

lol, you have a point there....

[Rabbit]

I took the time to read this entire litany of haters and lovers arguing. I have owned an Ion. Yes, I hate Smart Parts. Bottom line, the Ion, for the money AT THE PURCHASE PRICE is the single best deal a person can get. Period. Now that said, the feedneck needs improvement, cause it flat out sucks nuts. The trigger is iffy. It's a thing that could use some work, but it is functional.

And for all the 'it's plastic' haters.... WTF do you think the Mag and cocker frames were before they got upgraded? That's right kiddies, PLASTIC. Call if what you want, but those frames were nothing more than plastic.

As far as being able to build one entirely from aftermarket parts? Yep, been there, done that. Actually kinda liked it. When you can do that and then say 'No it's not an Ion' and mean it (because, honestly, it isn't an Ion), even though it does have Ion replacement parts, it makes you feel kinda proud. Yeah, Ion parts, but is it REALLY an Ion? if not one single part came from SP does that still make it an Ion?

Love them or hate them, they are here. And I don't see them going away anytime soon. Get over it.

Edit: to the poster who said Breakbeam eyes, Uhm, no, they arent, not until you get the Virtue eyes. The stockers are a Bouncer type beam. ;)

[iambored]

My great revolt against SP cannot be stopped by ions or $275 2-color fade imps with vision, I stick with mags, egos, dm,pm, timmies,excals, borgs, and vikings after all I've heard more bad about SP than good and for the price of a nice ion I could get a new ego etek, plus when you have a replacement for every piece on the marker I sorta consider that bad, but I have great things about them and maybe if I can get one with a tank cheap I'll try it to give me the right to not like 'em

[Lohman446]

My great revolt against SP cannot be stopped by ions or $275 2-color fade imps with vision, I stick with mags, egos, dm,pm, timmies,excals, borgs, and vikings after all I've heard more bad about SP than good and for the price of a nice ion I could get a new ego etek, plus when you have a replacement for every piece on the marker I sorta consider that bad, but I have great things about them and maybe if I can get one with a tank cheap I'll try it to give me the right to not like 'em


Wow.. the price of the Etek must have really taken a nose dive :rolleyes:

[Pneumagger]

ego etek >> 100 IONs or 72 Imps

[iambored]

Quality over quantity is important and wholesale and ebay bonded members work wonders and
$45 Fire Bolt
$100 Aluminum Shell
$50 New Reg
$ 45 QEV
$120 Better Barrel
$200 Good Tank
$100 New Board
$75 Break-Beam Eyes
$70 Hopper to keep up
$200 Base Marker
$ 50 Firing Can
$45 Better Trigger

So overall a nice ion is $1100.00 + shipping and handling and I just cannot see that being good
but I just would rather buy a mag for the price of the base ion

[kenndogg]

Quality over quantity is important and wholesale and ebay bonded members work wonders and
$45 Fire Bolt
$100 Aluminum Shell
$50 New Reg
$ 45 QEV
$120 Better Barrel
$200 Good Tank
$100 New Board
$75 Break-Beam Eyes
$70 Hopper to keep up
$200 Base Marker
$ 50 Firing Can
$45 Better Trigger

So overall a nice ion is $1100.00 + shipping and handling and I just cannot see that being good
but I just would rather buy a mag for the price of the base ion


$45 Fire Bolt
Firebolt- most places have them for $40 max

$100 Aluminum Shell
Not a necessary upgrade, more vanity than anything

$50 New Reg
I'll give you that one

$ 45 QEV
$45 for a qev? did you make that price up? $15 for a clippard that fits w/o any modifications

$120 Better Barrel
CP makes a great barrel for under $50, who uses stock barrels anyways, most people upgrade this regardless

$200 Good Tank
Tank would apply to any gun, should not even be considered in the equation

$100 New Board
T-board can be had for $80 but is a new board really necessary? IMO no Stock ion board allow you to adjust fire rate, dwell, fire modes(including ramp).

$75 Break-Beam Eyes
$75 for break beam eyes!? Once again did you make this up? Stock ion eyes are break beam so why do you need to upgrade?? :rolleyes:

$70 Hopper to keep up
See the tank comment

$200 Base Marker
Actually they are $179 now

$ 50 Firing Can
Firing can-not necessary but $35 if you really think it helps

$45 Better Trigger
any where from $20-$45

My Ion was $179, Warrior trigger and feedneck combo was $45, Techt l6 bolt was $55, Sidewinder reg was $70, Clippard QEV was $15, Evil driver barrel was $40. Total comes out to be just a bit over $400.
My Ion has little kick, good efficiency and just as fast as any high gun.
Just because you can upgrade any parts doesn't you have too or need to.
Honestly all you really need for a base ion is a qev and feedneck and it will be a great gun for the money.

[iambored]

Wow, I need to find some where else to shop fast (Starts searching for paintball stores at google)

[geekwarrior]

Wow, I need to find some where else to shop fast (Starts searching for paintball stores at google)

I think you do, if you've been paying the kind of prices you listed, well, you've been bent over and :eek:

[Lohman446]

$45 Fire Bolt

Not needed


$100 Aluminum Shell

Definetly not needed, considering this as needed is kinda just retarded


$50 New Reg

MAYBE... though not really. But I'll even give you this


$ 45 QEV

Not needed, my Minion efficiency is worse than a stock Matrix. As are many other markers out there


$120 Better Barrel

Thats a heck of a barrel. Checked prices lately? Even if I give you this you can buy very good barrels for $50 all day Personally I have been satisfied with the Ion stock barrel, though I have heard some of them were bad


$200 Good Tank
OMG.. the Ion needs a tank? This is one of the most retarded things I see people complain about. Every marker (ok, there is one exception out there) needs a tank


$100 New Board

Vanity purchase. The Ion board functions just fine in most any circumstance needed.


$75 Break-Beam Eyes

Vanity purchase. The stock eye system has worked fine in every Ion I have shot, and some for an extended time.


$70 Hopper to keep up

OMG - the Ion needs a good hopper. OMG... like, I just feed my Etek one at a time


$200 Base Marker

Ok.. need the marker.


$ 50 Firing Can

Not knowing what this is I cannot tell you why it is retarded



$45 Better Trigger

Ok, I'm going to be nice on this one and give it to you. Its a maybe, but ok.

So even if I give you the base Ion $200, a good barrel ($50), a clamping feedneck ($50), a trigger and reg, both of which I think are stretching it ($100) I'm still only to $400 for a decent customized marker. Prices of the Etek drop?

[Chaos_Theory!]

lol, my ion is upped with the best of the best parts that most people cant find or get and it hasnt cost me $800.

[Lohman446]

Edit: to the poster who said Breakbeam eyes, Uhm, no, they arent, not until you get the Virtue eyes. The stockers are a Bouncer type beam. ;)

It has dual bounce eyes? SP advertises it as break beam, why is it not break beam? I see two eyes...

[Chaos_Theory!]

Edit: to the poster who said Breakbeam eyes, Uhm, no, they arent, not until you get the Virtue eyes. The stockers are a Bouncer type beam. ;)

Hate to bust your balls kid but the stock ion does have break beam eyes. Virtue eyes just light up as well as being break beam.

[glickstue]

If we're going to get technical the only gun I know of that has two eyes is Bob Long's new gun. Every other gun that comes to memory whether it’s a break beam or a bounce beam system has 1 sender and 1 receiver which means only one component is actually the "eye".

[REDRT]

No matter what upgrades one does it will not feel like a mag. For me that is grounds for dismissal.

[Ydna]

yes, the gun comes with beam-break eyes. Just about every gun does, except for E-blade cockers and Shockers/Impulses/Nerves.

However I must say the exact amount of "required" upgrades is a HUGE case of personal preference.

I would say a new trigger would be a good investment if you don't like the stock one. A new feedneck would be nice too. Also a barrel kit.
Beyond that, you already have a gun that shoots as fast as you need, has eyes, gets relatively decent efficiency, is lightweight, what else do you need?

All a bolt will do is reduce recoil. You can change that by yourself just by shooting different.
New fire chamebr is pointless unless you want to have yours be a different color than black...or hell you could also buy a new one in black...
QEV is good to have, nice for efficiency but not a requirement.
Board is also nice to have, but not a requirement.
New reg isn't needed unless you get a finnicky one, or just don't like the idea of "stock'.
New lazer eye board....pointless.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against upgrades but a TON of the stuff for the Ion is released and promoted while pushing the bull**** meter to the top. Companies will not hesitate to take advantage of kids that don't know what looks flashy and what functions better. I don't know how much my Ion cost but I'm sure it was very expensive. But I own another two which are nearly stock, and would function just fine if needed...

[afortuna]

since most markers we buy will usually need one anyway. Now, when I say a barrel kit I'm also including in that definition just an upgraded barrel. Anyway you look at it, most markers need a new barrel to better match paint for great efficiency. This isn't a defect of the ION alone.

Stock board is fine. Most places won't let you shoot above 15BPS anyway. I loved the replacement body, but it was purely for looks. Id did not help the marker any. QEV is a good upgrade for clearly under $20. Firing can doesn't need to be replaced. There are claims of efficiency, but nothing is proven. $1,100 is a considerable overstatement.

[mag_lover05]

My Ion has little kick, good efficiency and just as fast as any high gun.



good god its pbn all over again. an ion is not a high end gun. i cant believe im saying this on AO. i never thought it we would see such conversations.

[Lohman446]

good god its pbn all over again. an ion is not a high end gun. i cant believe im saying this on AO. i never thought it we would see such conversations.

Yeh, but that was before we had people blatantly dismissing a marker just because of its manufacturer.. . :rolleyes: Though I will question the just as fast as anything claim I also question why its not "as good as anything else" in a capped ramping situation.

[kenndogg]

good god its pbn all over again. an ion is not a high end gun. i cant believe im saying this on AO. i never thought it we would see such conversations.


Hey kid, did I ever state the Ion was a high end gun? I said it could keep up with any high end gun. :rolleyes: The point I'm trying to make is it's a great gun for the money with a lot of desired features found in many of the high end guns out there.
15bps capped ramping is the same regardless of which gun it comes out of.

[Chaos_Theory!]

No matter what upgrades one does it will not feel like a mag. For me that is grounds for dismissal.

Sorry, but thats pretty damn pathetic. Mags are great guns but guns that arent just like them are just as good in most cases. Being a major fan boy like that is kind of odd.