So who/what exactly did SP ruin?

[Cow hunter]

So who/what did SP ruin? im doing somewhat of a project and id like to have a complete a list as possible. so far i can list

-AKA
-The E-mag
-ICD(to a point)
-Who did they steal the shocker from, was it PMI?


i know about the lawsuits and such, id just like to find out who else was affected

[hgp3fat]

The X-Mag...

And who knows how many others stopped working on new innovations just out of the fear of legal action.

[Cow hunter]

The X-Mag...

And who knows how many others stopped working on new innovations just out of the fear of legal action.
no that was stopped due to high production costs




Dude. Do a search.
nah, this is easier

[AutomagRT1483]

Dude. Do a search.

[hgp3fat]

I stand corrected, one less reason to hate them.

Can you just imagine the time and r&d dollars wasted by some companies and people after SP started with all the litagation. Just wiping the chalkboard clean of all those ideas, and having to start over with fresh ones... Hey on second thought maybe that was good for paintball...

Just look at that new Tippmann Triumph for example. (warning: This comment is laden with sarcasm.)

[Toll]

Everyone laughs at it, but imagine the possibilities of getting a very cheap piece of kit that contains a was board and the tippmann innards and simply finding an empty 98 frame.


Or lacking that, creating your own bastardization.

[JaKaL]

They ruined paintball. To a point. They definately ruined innovation in the game by getting greedy.

The shocker was stolen from PneuVentures Inc. "PVI"
Straight up jacked. And then patented as their own innovation.

[REDRT]

Smartparts didn't ruin anything really IMO. They put themselves in a position to be a industry leaders through hostle/lucrative business practices. Ironic how a once barrel company became an industry leader.
AGD a once industry leader has become casturated has beens.

[Chronobreak]

quality control

but that was long ago :cool:

[Lohman446]

They ruined paintball. To a point. They definately ruined innovation in the game by getting greedy.

The shocker was stolen from PneuVentures Inc. "PVI"
Straight up jacked. And then patented as their own innovation.

SP bought it from PVI. I guess when you go into the store your stealing too huh? Get your facts right before you begin to spew that type of nonsense.

As to the E-mag and X-mag TK flat out stated that there were a lot of reasons for the discontinuation of both. SP was just a drop in a very large bucket.

I don't understand how enforcement of intellectual property rights is wrong. I don't understand how anyone thinks it is. Don't get into this but.. but WDP Yeh, WDP and SP share a patent now. Is it easier for others to get hold of now? Oh... wait, the courts upheld that patent. WDP kind of backdoored their way into that patent with an employee of PVI not having signed a work product agreement. Good for them but it shows again, that buying something from PVI is not stealing it.

[SR_matt]

its the fact that they didnt come up with it and the fact that the patent was sooooooo wide that it was like saying "patent on a gas powered car"

IIRC wdp didnt back door at all, 2 people that haad the original patent promised it to 2 different people and thats what got messed up.

-matt

[Lohman446]

its the fact that they didnt come up with it and the fact that the patent was sooooooo wide that it was like saying "patent on a gas powered car"

IIRC wdp didnt back door at all, 2 people that haad the original patent promised it to 2 different people and thats what got messed up.

-matt

You're a patent attorney then? Because the outcomes of various cases and disputes seems to indicate to me that the courts and those who were part of it viewed it as valid.

A lot of companies do not come up with their own ideas. There is a VAST difference between purchased and "jacked"

[SR_matt]

well just becasue the courts say its ok doest mean that it was, if some one was to ask teh average joe on the street which company rightfuly owned rights to a new chemical compound and threw out some random info to him do you think that 100% of the time he will make the right choice? no

o and no im not a lawyer but my father was a contracts lawyer for 20 years
-matt

[deathstalker]

AKA is still around. They CHOSE not to make a deal with SP and therefore discontinued manufacturing Vikings and Excals. Considering you can still buy them brand new from AKA, I don't see how any damage was done. They still have them stocked.

ICD? Hmm, they've released several versions of the Freestyle and the Promaster since the whole "issue" began. I fail to see how they have been harmed, too.

[deathstalker]

well just becasue the courts say its ok doest mean that it was, if some one was to ask teh average joe on the street...
Most "average joes" couldn't find the state they live in on a map.

[Lohman446]

well just becasue the courts say its ok doest mean that it was, if some one was to ask teh average joe on the street which company rightfuly owned rights to a new chemical compound and threw out some random info to him do you think that 100% of the time he will make the right choice? no

o and no im not a lawyer but my father was a contracts lawyer for 20 years
-matt

I'd ask for a paternity test.

[SR_matt]

excuse me?
-matt

[WenULiVeUdiE]

AKA is still around. They CHOSE not to make a deal with SP and therefore discontinued manufacturing Vikings and Excals. Considering you can still buy them brand new from AKA, I don't see how any damage was done. They still have them stocked.

No, papers were signed. However, those papers did not enable them to continue manufacturing Vikings and Excaliburs. It also included some others things.

[Glickman]

they ruined the faces of people who are business-ignorant by making them cry :rolleyes:

[deathstalker]

No, papers were signed. However, those papers did not enable them to continue manufacturing Vikings and Excaliburs. It also included some others things.
Thanks for the clarification. My point is more that they COULD have inked a deal allowing them to continue, but still chose not to.

[NewbieMagMan10988]

I'd ask for a paternity test.



W T F :tard:

LOL

Mike

[Glickman]

Thanks for the clarification. My point is more that they COULD have inked a deal allowing them to continue, but still chose not to.

feel free to correct me anyone, but they COULD have still produced their guns, but they were faced with heafy royalty fees, which is the reason they stopped, not that they were physically forced correct?

a business cease-and-desist ususally has a fine print saying "... or pay us a few mill ;) "

[deathstalker]

i dont believe thats entirely true. when he says the papers would not have let them produce them anymore, that means they couldnt produce them without paying a royalty fee. as long as you file the paper work and pay the royalty fee, you can produce with a copyrighted part.
That's exactly my point. :tard: They chose not to pay. AKA CHOSE the deal they did. They could have paid their money, but didn't. I would have a very hard time believing SP singled out any companies and refused them the chance to buy in.

[RRfireblade]

its the fact that they didnt come up with it and the fact that the patent was sooooooo wide that it was like saying "patent on a gas powered car"

IIRC wdp didnt back door at all, 2 people that haad the original patent promised it to 2 different people and thats what got messed up.

-matt

They bought the company , it came with the Patent.

They manipulated the USPTO and very likey greased examiner's pockets to get patent continuations that they never should have got. Who was more dirty? USPTO or SP ? That's anyone's guess.

SP actually got ripped by the WDP court case IMO simply cause they got misrepresented by PVI in that PVI apparently did not have full rights to the Patent they sold and got paid for.

That being said....

How SP aquired PVI is a whole other dirty story that's rarely told.

All in all , business is business and there are a hundred thousand other things that went on before that and since that know one ever hears about and has had equal or greater effect on the industry.

You have 2 choices, either get in business and play ball to survive.....or get out.

It's that simple.

[warpspyder]

You have 2 choices, either get in business and play ball to survive.....or get out.

It's that simple.

As much as many people hate SP, this is very true. SmartParts is a business. Businesses exist to survive. And with a market such as paintball that isn't as widespread as say cars, you've got do do everything in your power to get every cent you're entitled to (even if the reasons you're entitled to that money is a bit shady).

I'm in no way approving of what they *have* done, I'm just pointing out that business is business. This sort of thing is nothing new in the world of business.

I typed the word business a lot :tard:

[Lohman446]

Does anyone actually beleive AKA is still producing markers from parts they "just happened to have laying around"?

[WenULiVeUdiE]

feel free to correct me anyone, but they COULD have still produced their guns, but they were faced with heafy royalty fees, which is the reason they stopped, not that they were physically forced correct?

They were not heafty. SP would not charge $100 in royalties per gun.


Does anyone actually beleive AKA is still producing markers from parts they "just happened to have laying around"?

They were able to contiue the run of markers they were manufacturing. They still had many many raw bodies left as well as parts. Simply put, the papers AKA signed prevents them from manufacturing any new markers. Assembling and manufacturing are different. ;)

[Lohman446]

They were not heafty. SP would not charge $100 in royalties per gun.



They were able to contiue the run of markers they were manufacturing. They still had many many raw bodies left as well as parts. Simply put, the papers AKA signed prevents them from manufacturing any new markers. Assembling and manufacturing are different. ;)


I understand that. But who keeps a 4 year surplus of parts laying around?

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I guess it was a decently large run of parts. Vikings had started to become quite popular around the time the lawsuit happened. And afterwords popularity plumeted. Sales dropped along with prices.

[RRfireblade]

I understand that. But who keeps a 4 year surplus of parts laying around?


Why AGD of course. :)

[Ydna]

The main issue is no longer what was patented, but rather what you think about what SP did with the patents.

There are MANY screwed up things that are patented, relating to paintball. A gun that uses electronics is far from the top of the list of shady things. Sure it isn't innovative now, but it sure was back then. Barrel plug, stacked tube marker, drilling holes in a barrel, hopper elbows, just to name a few things that have made it to the books. Even the way the autococker SOUNDS when fired was a claim in legal patent.

There are many litigations and legal interactions that don't make it to the internet world. SP has won some and lost some, and is quite literally no longer occupied with a lot of those issues. They have enough money right now as it is, and enough crap going on to pull in more and more. Instead, nowadays you will find many other companies that are getting into the **** when it comes to litigations, such as K2 and BrassEagle.

[SCpoloRicker]

I work for electro-pneumatic patent-attorney-on-teh-intarwebs, so I'm really getting a kick out of a lot of these replies... :rolleyes:

/lohman rolling strong...

[hitech]

It is my understanding that SP when BACK and updated their patent to include more than they originally had after "electros" started becoming popular. Their first attempts were refused and then granted after they left out references to prior art that they included in the previous failed attempts.