Problems with my brand new mag :(

[sTaLa]

I just bought a Pro Classic directly from Airgun with the ULE body, the classic valve, Level 10 bolt and I run it with CO2. I tried it for the first time today... and I got some problems.

At my first game (AG chronoed it so I figured I didn't have to do it) the gun worked really well. Before the second game, I chronoed it and I had to lower the velocity a bit since I was shooting 297-304 PSI.

But then my problems began. I had to shoot really slowly or the gun would misfire: a kind of "pshhh" and nothing got out... or the balls falled in front of me. I also found that the balls didn't go very far.

So I thought it might be that I didn't have enough CO2, so I got a refill, and waited for about 45 minutes (lunch time). Still had the same problem... so I used my Spyder for the rest of the day.

I wanted to film a video of the problem to show it to you... but here at home... the gun works well. The problem appeared only once and I think it is because I didn't pull the trigger completly (I really took my time at the field and I was pulling the trigger completly).

My guess is maybe the velocity... but I can't be sure since I don't have any chrono at hand. What do you guys think could be my problem?

Thanks,
Alexandre

And by the way, I had an argument with a guy today that told me airgun recently developped the Level 12 bolt... to my knowledge they're still at the Level 10... could you confirm it?

[PhoenixWolf]

The Level 10's velocity is varied in 2 ways: spring strength and air pressure. When the gun gets to the point where you cannot lower the velocity further without it misfiring, you need to switch to a stronger mainspring. This will reduce velocities further, so you will need to crank the velocity up to the desired point. This will allow the gun to continue to operate at lower velocities. Basically the Automag valve has a cutoff point. Below this point, it won't fire correctly. Above this point, it works fine. This is why you need to use the springs to vary the velocity beyond what the valve can do by itself.

[sTaLa]

So I shot something like 50-70 blank shots at a rapid fire rythm... the gun worked well but it began its problem again... Hence I made that vid:

http://media.putfile.com/My-mag-problems

Do you still think it's a spring problem?

[sTaLa]

And here's a pic of the spring kit I received with the gun... Wich one should I install with the bolt? And will I have to tune the bolt if I change the spring? I'm quite afraid of dissambling my gun since I don't know it really well.

Someone showed how to do it with my Spyder so I do it after each game... but I'm lost with the mag since I don't know any owner near me :(((

Thanks again!

http://www.rx7club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192894

[sTaLa]

The image doesn't appear to me... here's the link to it.

http://www.rx7club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192894

[ProblemKinder]

you didn't happen to notice the warning on the marker that tells you specifically not to use CO2, did you?

[egb groupie]

you didn't happen to notice the warning on the marker that tells you specifically not to use CO2, did you?
he has a classic valve, so it's ok....

[sTaLa]

So I changed the spring for a longer one (wich does not make sens since the instructions I reveived). The gun came with the smaller spring, wich is made for low velocity and I had problems at low velocity.

Anyway, I opened the gun, and to pieces flew apart because there was still some air in the system :confused:. What I picked up is the "on/off pin" with a small cylinder that has some holes on the periphery and the center. Was there supposed to be an o-ring or anything else?

I put the middle spring, and nothing happened when I pulled the trigger... really nothing. So I put back the smaller spring, and the problem was even worse.

Should I take a look at the carrier? Damn, that bolt was supposed to be tune!!!

[sTaLa]

Ok... so I turn up the velocity of my gun with the smaller spring and evrything seems to work fine. My only issue is that I might shoot too high next time I'll get chronoed (one thing is that I used a 9" barrel today... I should get a 14" next week... maybe that will lower the velocity as I need it to be).

If the gun still exceeds 290 fps, is there another way to adjust the velocity than the spring and and the screw?

[MANN]

the silver (long) spring is for higher velocitys (@290) I would recomend the red one(that the one I use (@280ish) I would not recomend the low spring. It will cause your bolt to wear too much if you use the higher speeds.

[sTaLa]

the silver (long) spring is for higher velocitys (@290) I would recomend the red one(that the one I use (@280ish) I would not recomend the low spring. It will cause your bolt to wear too much if you use the higher speeds.

But today it shot to fast, even with the lower spring I was at 297 - 304. Lower than than that the gun would not shoot.

Anyway... now that I know what might be the problem I'll take a look at it next time I'm near a chrono.

And was there something else thant the on/off pin and the ring in the hole under the valve?

Thanks.

[minimag03]

Ok, answer a few questions and I'll give you come clear instructions.

1) What color spring came installed in the marker?

2) When you lowered your velocity the first day, how low did you lower it?

3) When the valve is out of the gun, how hard is it to pull the bolt off the tip of the valve? It sounds like it will be a little hard for you to pull it off.

4) Have you tried oiling thr marker yet?

Feel free to catch me on AIM or MSN and I should be able to walk you though any probelms you are having with your mag.

[Coralis]

When shooting a mag on CO2 i have always found that they need more oil than with HPA to keep shooting reliably I was assumed that this was due the the fact that the oring were being subjected to cooling caused by the expansion and contraction of CO2.

[flyingpootang]

Co2 is very unstable. If using a bottle on a ASA and you point the marker down you are feeding it liquid co2 which will give you a higher velocity. When you rapid fire the bottle will start to freeze and white smoke and snow will shoot out of the barrel. The best solution is to use a comressed air system from ebay 35-50, or install a Jtube into you co2 bottle.

[Pneumagger]

the level 10 requires some fine tuning. Unfortunately co2 varies too much to use the Level 10 reliably. you may have to cut a spring by a half coil or so to get it to shoot that low. And use an expansion chamber if you insist on Co2.

[sTaLa]

1) What color spring came installed in the marker?

2) When you lowered your velocity the first day, how low did you lower it?

3) When the valve is out of the gun, how hard is it to pull the bolt off the tip of the valve? It sounds like it will be a little hard for you to pull it off.

4) Have you tried oiling thr marker yet?
1) It was the short one, the same as on the Level 7 bolt.

2) Maybe I got it a bit to low. I didn't have any clue of the problem so I didn't really tried another velocity... maybe I can fix my problem by getting my velocity higher :confused:

3) There is a small resistance, but nothing really difficult to manage.

4) Euuh... no. Do I have to put oil in the hole where the bottle goes? And how many drops?
How often should I put oil in the two holes under the valve and how many drops?


or install a Jtube into you co2 bottle
I run a remote... that should help a bit no?


you may have to cut a spring by a half coil or so to get it to shoot that low
I had to do the same on my Spyder cause they tended to shoot to high back in those days... I don't know what's the situation now. But I didn't feel comfortable with a spring that didn't have a flat end so I bought a springs kit. Wouldn't a non-flat ended spring damage my mag?


Thanks again!

[minimag03]

You might just need to oil it. Put about 3 drops on oil in the hole that you screw your tank into, then fire the gun without paint about 100 times. Clean your barrel after you are done firing. You will need to put about 2-3 drops in the gun everytime before you play a day on paintball or about every case on paintballs.

Also, install the red spring onto the bolt and next time you play put your velocity at about 285 fps. you might also want install an extra shim in the level 10. There should be some in the extra parts they gave you. Its done by taking the valve out of the gun, taking off the bolt, and using a a wrench to remove the brass piece off the end of the valve where the bolt was. Once you have it off, drop the shim inside the tube and make sure it lands flat. Reassemble and see if that helps.

EDIT: Also, I wouldn't suggest cutting any springs yet. I have used mags for years and never had to cut one.

[zyklon69]

What's happening is that.. by waiting longer intervals between shots, you're giving time for the liquid co2 that's inside your gun to turn into a gas. That's why when you're trying to rapid fire, you're not giving it time to turn over, therefore you can't rapid fire. Try using a remote system or get a compressed air tank.

[minimag03]

What's happening is that.. by waiting longer intervals between shots, you're giving time for the liquid co2 that's inside your gun to turn into a gas. That's why when you're trying to rapid fire, you're not giving it time to turn over, therefore you can't rapid fire. Try using a remote system or get a compressed air tank.



I run a remote... that should help a bit no?

:ninja:

[sTaLa]

I just disassembled my Level 10 bolt, and it didn't have the "back up washer" (part #1 on the diagramm). Could that explain any of my problems?

I'm going to try the level 7 bolt that came with the kit... the problem is that I only have the .225 spacer... anyway.

[athomas]

The lack of a backing washer could cause all sorts of problems.

When you do get all the parts together, make sure the carrier is properly sized for the oring on the bolt stem.

The smallest spring will allow you to operate the mag on all velocity ranges. The middle and longer bolt springs allow you to make the bolt softer on paint but will move the operational velocity range higher. ie; The gun may require a higher velocity setting just to work properly. This velocity setting may be higher than the field limit.

[minimag03]

I wouldn't suggest using the smallest spring on velocities above 270. It caused major inconsistancy for me and probably would wear the bolt much faster.

[athomas]

The bolt spring doesn't affect the wear on the bolt. The short spring has been used successfully on the mag since the beginning. The short spring will give the best consistency due to it operating above the minimum pressure requirements. As you approach equilibrium of bolt tension vs chamber pressure, then you get inconsistencies. This is what happens when you use the longer springs. Any consistency problems caused by a short spring were no doubt caused by one that was worn or weak.