Attn. Hunters: Can buckshot kill a horse from 400 yards?

[CaptaiN_JacK]

The simple question:

Can 12 gauge birdshot rounds ("for clay pigeon, small game, and small bird" use, said the box) fired from 400 yards away be able to kill a horse?

The story (I'm a little gittery right now, so sorry about the bad grammer):


I went out skeet shooting today for the first time ever with a good friend. We went to a pond area in the middle of a cornfield(at least 1/4 mile away from any other houses). We had seen 2 horses about 1/4 mile down the road when we first got there and called my neighbor to get ahold of the owners and tell them their horses were out (which she did). 30 mins later the neighbor I called about the horses pulled up and told me there's a dead horse in a ditch and a bunch of horses out at my other neighbors house (this is the point where I almost had a nervous breakdown).

After we quick got the guns packed up we went over there to talk to them, and they were just getting the horses back in their pasture as we pulled up. We saw the dead horse in the ditch right next to their driveway (no blood in sight). We talked to the owners (about 65 years old) and asked what happened, etc. The wife immediatly told us the horse was shot, but the husband said he never thought it was us. I asked maybe we spooked them too much by shooting but he said he shoots clay pigeons in their backyard and the horses are fine with it. When we were leaving I asked if it would be OK if we kept shooting and he said it would be fine.

We had only shot off around 30 rounds skeet shooting at that point. Some of the stray shots may have been aimed towards their farm, but most weren't aimed that far south, and they were pretty close to the ground anyways. Their farm, and the site where the horse was found dead, as about 400 yards from where we were shooting. There is a possibility that our shots could have hit the horses, which is why I'm asking this question. And I just about forgot, just as we were unpacking the guns at my house the guys son pulled up and told us another horse was dead. It died in the pasture, so it died after we talked to them.

I don't know much about shotguns, birdshot, and velocity, but I can't imagine the bb's were traveling fast enough to puncture a horse (and kill it). I also don't think, in a single shot, that at that distance more than 1 bb would hit. We were using "recreational" shells meant for skeet shootings.

I have not lied or omitted things in the events described. Please help calm my nerves, FC.

[Lohman446]

You were not using "buckshot" to shoot skeet, you were using bird shot. There is a big difference.

Is it possible? I suppose so, but I really doubt it. Even with perfect elevation it is unlikely that any shot pattern is going to go that far.

[silentdeath55]

I'm going to go ahead and say no to that. 400yrds is a long way, and the shot would have lost a lot of velocity at that point. There are a few other factors such as wind, trajectory of the shot etc. I do more rifle/slug hunting and shooting, but have done quite a bit of trap shooting, but I am still by no means an expert. I still say approx. 1200 ft is a long way. Check out some shell manufacturers web sites and you should find the "lethal" range. Hope this helps......

[CaptaiN_JacK]

You were not using "buckshot" to shoot skeet, you were using bird shot. There is a big difference.


Yeah, I'm a newb at this shotgun stuff :tard:

So what's the difference?

[punkncat]

Yeah, I'm a newb at this shotgun stuff :tard:

So what's the difference?

Buckshot is a big slug or "bearing" that carries considerable weight. Used in a shotgun to take down larger game.

Birdshot is a small light pellet used for small game so as not to destroy it.


There is no way that you could have killed those horses with birdshot from that distance. I seriously doubt the ability to actually kill a horse at close range with birdshot. You could cause serious injury up close, but killing would be luck.

[CaptaiN_JacK]

Buckshot is a big slug or "bearing" that carries considerable weight. Used in a shotgun to take down larger game.

Birdshot is a small light pellet used for small game so as not to destroy it.


All these years I've been called birdshot "buckshot" and buckshot "slugs", oh well.

[Pneumagger]

with birdshot, you would've had to been nearly point blank with a tight group to take down a horse. I think it would be worse to get hit with a too fast paintball from 1' than birdshot at 400'

[Al_Steel]

Short answer... no freaking way, stop worrying. :D

Long answer... there are 2 basic shotgun rounds Slugs and Shotshells.

Slugs are large hunks of lead, a single bullet fired from the gun just like a rifle, except it's got a lot shorter range and it's a lot bigger! If you were using slugs to shoot skeet then you are a trick shot and should go make money putting on target exhibitions. Yes a slug could bring down a horse, but you weren't using slugs so we'll move on.

Shotshells have several pellets, this can range from about 6 large (.36 caliber) pellets in 000 buckshot to hundreds of fine (like coarse sand) pellets in #9 birdshot. It depends upon what kind of "choke" the gun is using but most shotshells are good out to about 50 yards and that's if you are using a long barreled goosegun with a full choke (tightest possible pattern). Beyond that the pellets spread out in all directions and loose speed rapidly. You could shoot a shotgun right at someone 300 yards away and never hit em with a single pellet b/c the shot is so spread out.

Which brings us to the shot size. Since you were shooting skeet you were probably using bird shot or some kind of target load. Birdshot is too small to kill anything but a bird or very small game unless fired at pointblank range. Buckshot, as the name implies, is made for deer sized and larger game but isn't effective beyond 100 yards unless you get REAL lucky. You would have to shoot a horse at 50 yards and get a solid hit with 00 or 000 buck to bring it down.

The horse likely got spooked, ran, tripped, broke it's neck. It happens, horses aren't too bright that way. My brother has had horses for years and they aren't the sharpest animal in the barn.

[CaptaiN_JacK]

Well I just got a visit from the Sheriff's office. The guy was really nice and never accusing, but with this wierd set of coincidences he just had to investigate a bit and get the story straight. I told him the 100% truth and he believed me, and then he went to my friends house and talked to him. He realizes there was no way the birdshot could have killed the 2 horses, so the .22 is really the only thing he was wondering about.

I feel much better now.

[Glickman]

since that was cleared up heres some advice when skeet shooting:

always carry a few extra magnum buckshot shells, eject a shell in your friends gun and slip in one of those for a good laugh :D

btw. dont actually add any because any smart skeet shooter knows exactly how many shells are in his gun and that could lead to some not so fun stuff

[bentothejam1n]

when are they gonna do the atopsy??

[shives007]

Some of you may recall my story from about 2 years ago. The end of it is that I have a pellet in my forehead to this day.

We were opening Pheasant season in SD as we have every year. I was walking wing on a field. The dogs got in early and flushed a rooster. One of our hunters, one of the safest gun handlers I have ever met, took a shot. I heard shot whizzing by, not unusual at about 30 yards. Then, I felt a smack on my forehead. I put the back of my hand up, thinking it stung like a paintball hit. I was about to continue walking when I noticed the blood on my hand. His Holland & Holland (costs more than my house) is usually a pheasant killing machine. On that shot he missed the bird and got me. I wrapped a bandana around my head, and finished the day. I had a small wound, but didn't think anything of it. It wasn't until after it healed that I realized a pellet is still there. And, there it is going to stay.

So, 30 yards punctured the relatively soft skin of my forehead, but not my skull. From my experience, you are lucky to break a clay at 80 yards. I doubt anyone would notice past 120 yards.

Shives

[Pneumagger]

uhh, shot is made of lead...no?

[shives007]

...Nothing there to casue it to break down. If ingested pellets are of very little risk. There is very little chance that they would remain in the digestive track long enough for the acids to do much work. In the tissue of my forehead, there just isn't anything to cause it to enter my system. Removing it would require a bigger scar or going above my hairline and tunneling down to reach it (~1.5"). Besides, removing it would have to be treated as a gun shot wound: plastic tipped tools to avoid damaging the pellet, a police officer on hand to verify chain of custody, etc. Even if I'm not pressing charges :tard:

Shives

[Army]

Lead oxide is poisonous, not the metal itself.

Being Rangemaster at our club range, I am regularly pelted with shot from the trap & skeet field when I go to the 100/125yd line. Distance is roughly 150-175yds. Getting hit by a thrown potato chip hurts more.

000 buckshot has an overall travel distance of around 1000yds..that's TOTAL flight at an optimal upward angle of acceleration. They remain lethal only to about 250+yards. Your target loads will have a total distance capability of about 400+yds. The pattern at that range would be in the tens of feet wide, so actually hitting the horse with even one pellet would be great luck.

[ultralight]

one of my buddies was shot with target load at a trap range from about 25 yards. most of it didn't even puncture his carhart. don't worry, you didn't shoot the horses.

[master_alexander]

haha... the whole story is kinda funny to me...

but as others said, you definatley did not kill the horse. the only thing that could have happened is the horses ate something that was shot with led pellets and died of lead poisioning, however i even highly doubt that.

but if you di find out what happened, let us know. :D

[billybob_81067]

Yeah there's no way you could have shot the horses with the shotguns...

I do know however that small game shot out of a 20 ga. will kill a dog at 100-150 feet. :p

[CaptaiN_JacK]

They aren't getting an autopsy because it costs more than they're willing to pay, and at this point it's pretty useless. I think it was probably something they ate when they were running around outside the fence. Or maybe a heart attack or something like that, but I doubt that.

[silentdeath55]

So there arn't even entry marks from a projectile on the horses and they were saying you shot it? Pretty smart farmers.......

[Indignant]

you didn't kill them.

[zt10]

listen to army, i too have been peppered quite a few times dove hunting,even with buckshot or a slug wont go 400yrds, :shooting:

[geekwarrior]

if Dick Cheney cant take a 60 some yr old down with birdshot, there's no way you killed that horse....

[Lohman446]

Well I just got a visit from the Sheriff's office. The guy was really nice and never accusing, but with this wierd set of coincidences he just had to investigate a bit and get the story straight. I told him the 100% truth and he believed me, and then he went to my friends house and talked to him. He realizes there was no way the birdshot could have killed the 2 horses, so the .22 is really the only thing he was wondering about.

I feel much better now.


What .22? Because that is within the realm of possibly taking down a horse at 400 yards - not likely but within possible.

[CaptaiN_JacK]

What .22? Because that is within the realm of possibly taking down a horse at 400 yards - not likely but within possible.

Just a cheap plinker from WalMart, but we didn't start shooting it until after the first horse was dead, and we were very careful with where we shot it--the exact opposite way of the horses.

silentdeath55--The wife is the only person that said the horse got shot, and that was before they even saw the other side of the horse. The husband never really thought it had been shot, especially after we told him all we had been shooting was birdshot. If you had a horse and all of a sudden it dropped dead without any explanation, wouldn't you immediatly become suspicious of the 2 guys shooting loud guns 1/4 mile away?


We didn't kill the horses, and we know that now. I just wish we knew what did, because this is quite the mystery..

[Thordic]

The first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was Animal House.

3 day for blatant cussing and circumvention of the filters. This ain't the Thorums buddy. Army

[MoeMag]

From AO hunter jumper horse person...
Can birdshot kill a horse, probably not. Their skin is fairly tough. I could see understand an eye getting poked out but that’s about it. A .22 on the other hand could get in and “bounce around” on the insides and tear stuff up maybe at worst tearing an artery or something like that making them bleed out.
But okay I’m not an expert in what a bullet can do to a horse. What I do know is how they behave. What in the world were the horses doing out loose? Apparently it was a strange enough situation that you were alarmed enough to contact the owners. Well domestic horses are not used to dealing with being out on their own. They are not wild animals plain and simple. Some would be just as bad as a poodle trying to cross a LA freeway, except they weigh 1200lbs and will mess a car up. They were probably very nervous and being that they are “flight” animals when they heard gun fire it probably spooked them. So they started running and the one probably tripped and fell in the ditch and killed itself. Horses don’t handle things like that too well. One of my friends horses killed itself trying to jump a fence trying to get away from someone with a welder that he could see a few hundred feet away, he clipped his back feet on the fence and snapped his neck. When they get nervous they get fast and stupid.

[Al_Steel]

hmmm.. I replied before I read your post about the .22. Were you using the .22 to plink in the direction of the horses? I so were your shots low to the ground or at a high angle?

A .22LR has enough power at 200 yards to kill a horse with a well placed shot, or even a not so well placed shot that bounces off a rib and into an artery. But again it's highly unlikely at the ranges you describe. Beyond 200 yards the velocity of a 22 LR round really starts to drop. At 400 yards it could go still through the skin though. I can see why the LEO was concerned about the 22. It's possible to kill a horse at that range with a .22. It's not likely at all, but possible. You would have to be a world class sniper that could hit the horse in a VERY vital spot at that range or just extremely unfortunate but it's possible.

I'm more inclined to go with MoeMag's assessment of what happened.

[Lee]

i've seen ricochets from #4 high brass .410 bounce off people at a lot less range than that. stung the guy bad, but no penetration.

may sound like shens, but it's true.

i seriously doubt you are responsible for the horses.

[starchief1959]

With a target load, there's no way you even got near the horses at 400 yards. Especially if you were aiming low as you say.

[CaptaiN_JacK]

I liked skeet shooting so much I went to the local gun shop yesterday and picked up 75 rnds and a box of clay pigeons. I shot 50 rnds off in our shelterbelt over a cornfield. I'd say I hit about 95% of the singles, and 2 out of the 10 doubles I tried. I'm going to shoot off the other 25 rnds today. I can't wait to go pheasant hunting with my brother-in-law this fall! This is a helluvalot more fun than shooting blackbirds with a .22.