What Happened to Tippmans Propane Gun?

[AGD]

I have not heard anything about it in a while, anyone have an update?

AGD

[punkncat]

I am suprized at the renewed attention you pay this product. You seem more interested in its progress than any player around here....

I had heard something about the production of a semi model. Beyond that I have actually seen ONE in use on the playing field since their inception.

[Lohman446]

From the field side of it I have yet to be at a field that would allow them when asked - and yes I have asked a lot of fields. Without Tippman pushing to prove them safe in the industry that cannot be good for them.


I think they missed a niche anyways. Most rec only off field players are not going to spend $200 on a pump. Most people who will spend this on a pump are probably not concerned about getting 50,000 rounds off a fill.

[stop whining buy a mag]

My local field refuses to sell them or fix them claiming that it hurts their profits by decreasing the demand for air.


But I don't buy their BS.



I know of one local guy that owns it but he is a complete gun whore. I've also seen a few other random people at scenario games.

[Lee]

havn't seen a single one in play.

[Rudz]

maybe tippman needs to get on the ball, im sure its a geat idea, just needs some push, i would love to see some conversion valves and such

[PumpPlayer]

I'm a regular pump player and a member of the SCP group at EMR.

I see at least 2 or 3 of them on the field every weekend out of about 300-600 people depending on the event.
But that's a very pump-friendly field, I think.

The people that use them feel that it's still a bit of novelty and there are obviously better-performing direct-feed pumps out there for the price (sniper, Illusion are both in the price range). But, they say, there is something to be said for the reliability and the ability to strap a case on your back without having to carry a huge tank (or two). It takes a while to shoot that case of paint, but you can trigger away indeffinitely without ever worrying about ammo or air supply. Slowly but constantly firing aimed shots is in some ways better than throwing short bursts of paint downfield. I'd say that for scenario or big game play, a C3 is a great 'support' tool and is really good for the people that like to hang in the back and fire at absolutely everything they see. The only downside is that your pumpin' arm gets quite a workout. The C3s do shoot very straight if you put decent paint through them.

The other thing some people like is that with the hot gas and unported barrel, they're fairly loud. Some people have tossed AA intimidators and other loudeners on them and the effect is pretty neat.

Again, they're still mostly novelty but there are some people out there who use them and enjoy them. There is a market (albeit a small one). Part of me feels that the purpose of the C3 was to open the path for a semi- version once it's feasable and to provide Tippmann with plenty of free word-of-mouth advertizing. I've shot them and it is indeed a solid product, though. Worth the money if you're not looking for sheer BPS.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

The only one I've ever seen is Meph's. It seemed very solid & smooth.

I have to agree though, that I don't really think it has found it's market. It SHOULD be sold at Wally-World and other non-paintball places, specifically those that service remote areas. Places where it is difficult for a player to get a CO2 or HPA fill, and where paint is expensive.

[splat15k]

As Lohman already mentioned, very few players are willing to spend $200 on a pump that has a long pump stroke and looks like tupperware. Might as well get a used phantom to play pump...or get a new ion to play semi (this is what I think a new player would do).

[LegumeOfTerror]

i think the CO2 swap programs popping up at walmarts is what killed it. they can use regular CO2 powered guns and get fills without to much trouble at all. on a similar note, i wanna know what happened to the e-volt. that seemed to be a better idea imo.

[Chronobreak]

tom, heres another one for ya

what happened to the E-volt :cool:


both seem to push the limits of fields allowing them since as said most fields need air sales, or have the fees included and dont wanna pay people $ if they have their own source.

we do allow them at our field(probly as long as theyr not real popular) i have only seen one nib, and one being played with since they were released.

--edit i notice legum thought the same thing i did
i made a thread about it on pbn, and manike commented, however he did tell me a bit more about it than i or he can or will publickly state :ninja:

[Pneumagger]

co2 swap program? what is this?

[Chronobreak]

co2 swap program? what is this?

apparently wal-mart workers arent intelligent enough to fill tanks properly

from what i hear,..you bring in yuor tank and they give you a filled one

--like propane

[LegumeOfTerror]

it works like the propane tank swap, you know the "blue rhino" thing? same company. its called "rhino power" you take in an empty of any brand, give em from 5 to 7 bucks, and they hand you a brand new pre-filled tank. ive done it a few times for some backyard playing. also, i mentioned the e-volt first, so i get the e-points!

(like he said ^)

[Chronobreak]

. also, i mentioned the e-volt first, so i get the e-points!

(like he said ^)

moo point

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1722320&highlight=e-volt

:D , legum your not gonna get anymore info than what is posted in that thread

seems like it would be ok for renegade ballers who play 1-2 games then take like a 2-3 hr break while their guns charge..

seems like if it were brought to a field..space/outlet/power might be a problem.

[LegumeOfTerror]

now thats just plain mean...

also, i would think youd get more than one battery and swap em. that is, if they arnt terribly expensive. i always thought of dewalt power drill batteries when i read about it.

[BigEvil]

I have not heard anything about it in a while, anyone have an update?

AGD

I think people bought these just out of curiosity more than anything. Everyone wanted to see how they worked.

RIght now they are just oddities. It will take some doing to really improve the technology to the point were it can be applied to a modern-style paintball gun. (High ROF, Electro-controled, ect)

Not sure if anyone considered this, but the use of propane as a power source might make the govt take a closer look and classify them as actualy firearms, since combustion is used to propel the paintball.

[LegumeOfTerror]

im pretty sure combustion is used to push a piston that compresses air, and air is still used to fire the paintball. so i guess kinda indirectly uses combustables propel it?

[Jaan]

My friend has a C3 that he plays with at Fox 4 in Upton MA. They never gave him any guff about it as long as he could chrony. He's bringing it to their all pump game on Sept. 30th. I might borrow it for a game to see how well it handles. I also know that PW Paintball in Plainville MA sells them, although I'm not sure how many he's sold.

[MoeMag]

Havent sold 1 in 4 months. Thats saying alot out of AZ's biggest store.

[Doc Nickel]

As I've said before, the C3 was an answer to an unasked question. It has no real purpose, fills no real need, sates no real demand.

Yes, it's interesting, and possibly even groundbreaking technology, but truth be told, as it is, the C3 is pointless.

Pump, in general, is now a small niche market. Yes, it's still popular, even growing again in some places, but SP still sells fifty Ions to every Phantom that gets sold. And I'd bet about five M98s sell for every Ion.

Worse, it's a direct feed gun- most pumps sold these days are Stock Class, or at least can be quickly and easily configured as such. The C3 can't.

Third, the C3 is not a tiny gun. Heck, it'd be huge even if it were a semiauto. The trend these days is smaller, lighter, and more compact; windowed milling, 45 ci "peanut" tanks, and so on. You'd have a hard time selling a gun the size of the C3, even if it were a fast electro.

And last, as interesting as the propane technology is, it's almost entirely unnecessary.

Fifty-Kay out of a tank is way cool, sure, but so what? Any town large enough to have a soda fountain has access to CO2, and it's a rare place that doesn't have some access to HPA or compressed nitrogen. The number of places that might need to use propane instead of either HPA or CO2, while certainly not zero, is still pretty small.

To say nothing of having that sort of efficiency on a pump. The vast majority of pump players won't go through fifty thousand shots over the lifetime of the gun. Most semiauto users that don't go through that much in a year- that's twenty five cases!

It's like having a turbocharged V-12 on a Rascal scooter. It's interesting, but pretty much useless.

Now, that technology/efficiency would be far more useful in a semiauto, of course, except that I kind of doubt we'll see that, considering how the C3 already has a heat issue at "just" four shots per second. Combusting propane produces both heat (naturally) and water vapor, neither of which are kind to a paintball.

The faster you shoot and the more you shoot, the worse both issues get. So I suspect the technology is really not workable for anything but a pump, and at the moment a pump like that really isn't marketable.

Doc.

[iambored]

If you want to hear someones self-imposed burns about the c3 listen to this

and I quote (It is from some store review or pbnation or somethin):

The only reason I bought this piece of junk was for my companies party. You can't even shoot fast. I shot this guy smoken a cigerrette and THE PIECE OF JUNK BLEW UP! Now I've got 2nd degree burns on my hands

Now I figure that it is a pump so no it ain't gonna have +20bps
If you have goggles on you cannot smoke
And if you so close that the propaine doesn't diffuse through the air you are TO CLOSE
And the says he has experience I think

[dahoeb]

that guy sounds like he doesn't know what hes talking about. he bought a pump, and is complaining that "it doesn't even shoot fast". i just quit reading after that.

[eNder159]

As I've said before, the C3 was an answer to an unasked question. It has no real purpose, fills no real need, sates no real demand.

Yes, it's interesting, and possibly even groundbreaking technology, but truth be told, as it is, the C3 is pointless.

Pump, in general, is now a small niche market. Yes, it's still popular, even growing again in some places, but SP still sells fifty Ions to every Phantom that gets sold. And I'd bet about five M98s sell for every Ion.

Worse, it's a direct feed gun- most pumps sold these days are Stock Class, or at least can be quickly and easily configured as such. The C3 can't.

Third, the C3 is not a tiny gun. Heck, it'd be huge even if it were a semiauto. The trend these days is smaller, lighter, and more compact; windowed milling, 45 ci "peanut" tanks, and so on. You'd have a hard time selling a gun the size of the C3, even if it were a fast electro.

And last, as interesting as the propane technology is, it's almost entirely unnecessary.

Fifty-Kay out of a tank is way cool, sure, but so what? Any town large enough to have a soda fountain has access to CO2, and it's a rare place that doesn't have some access to HPA or compressed nitrogen. The number of places that might need to use propane instead of either HPA or CO2, while certainly not zero, is still pretty small.

To say nothing of having that sort of efficiency on a pump. The vast majority of pump players won't go through fifty thousand shots over the lifetime of the gun. Most semiauto users that don't go through that much in a year- that's twenty five cases!

It's like having a turbocharged V-12 on a Rascal scooter. It's interesting, but pretty much useless.

Now, that technology/efficiency would be far more useful in a semiauto, of course, except that I kind of doubt we'll see that, considering how the C3 already has a heat issue at "just" four shots per second. Combusting propane produces both heat (naturally) and water vapor, neither of which are kind to a paintball.

The faster you shoot and the more you shoot, the worse both issues get. So I suspect the technology is really not workable for anything but a pump, and at the moment a pump like that really isn't marketable.

Doc.

/endThread

[SCpoloRicker]

/endThread

While Doc certainly is a valid opinion, I disagree. Specifically, due to the scenario marketplace.

[Arstron]

If somone can make a semi auto that can run off of these propane tanks, I could see it taking off.
http://blbikeshop.com/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=5348

[Doc Nickel]

While Doc certainly is a valid opinion, I disagree. Specifically, due to the scenario marketplace.

-A scenario marketplace which has been ignoring the gun in droves.

Scenario games and players are based more around "lookalike" markers and quasi-roleplaying, than the C3's single benefit of a long-lasting tank. In the scenario market, too, semiautos are the rule, pumps the rather rare exception.

In any case, my opinion is irrelevant- the market, the buyers, have already spoken. There is no demand for the gun, and it is not selling.

Now, if Tippmann can solve the heat and moisture issues, make it work as a relatively fast semiauto (minimum of 8BPS, 12 would be better from a a marketing standpoint) and stuff it into a package at least half the size of the current gun, they'd have something.

They may be able to do the latter two, but the heat and moisture are inherent properties of the propellant, and may not be solvable.

Doc.

[BigEvil]

They may be able to do the latter two, but the heat and moisture are inherent properties of the propellant, and may not be solvable.

Doc.

QFT - next thing they will have a semi-auto with a water jacket on it.

[craltal]

-A scenario marketplace which has been ignoring the gun in droves.

Scenario games and players are based more around "lookalike" markers and quasi-roleplaying, than the C3's single benefit of a long-lasting tank. In the scenario market, too, semiautos are the rule, pumps the rather rare exception.

In any case, my opinion is irrelevant- the market, the buyers, have already spoken. There is no demand for the gun, and it is not selling.

Now, if Tippmann can solve the heat and moisture issues, make it work as a relatively fast semiauto (minimum of 8BPS, 12 would be better from a a marketing standpoint) and stuff it into a package at least half the size of the current gun, they'd have something.

They may be able to do the latter two, but the heat and moisture are inherent properties of the propellant, and may not be solvable.

Doc.

i agree with you that the "scenario marketplace" has spoken and ignored this gun and they usually LOVE tippmann guns. the only positive thing i can see would be turning around after a day of play, taking the tank off your gun and firing up the grill for dinner.

[Doc Nickel]

QFT - next thing they will have a semi-auto with a water jacket on it.

-Nope. That would cause the water vapor to condense into droplets on the inside of the barrel.

That's why the C3 has that funky plastic/carbon-fiber barrel; it doesn't transfer heat as well as aluminum or stainless, and so minimizes condensation.

That's also, I believe, why the gun didn't come with Tippman/A5 or 'Cocker threading- so players wouldn't/can't use a metal barrel.

Doc.

[SlartyBartFast]

If somone can make a semi auto that can run off of these propane tanks, I could see it taking off.
http://blbikeshop.com/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=5348

Forget that. Those are huge. Use these:
http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=57466&catid=29108&brand=8408&trx=PLST-0-BRAND&trxp1=29108&trxp2=57466&trxp3=1&trxp4=0&btrx=BUY-PLST-0-BRAND&cmbProdBrandFilter=8408

Granted those are Butane. There are also tiny little oxygen and gas cylinders for micro welding and cutting torches.

Or, build in a small cylinder that can be refilled, say enough to shoot a case...

Or, how about Airsoft "Green Gas"?

[SlartyBartFast]

-Nope. That would cause the water vapor to condense into droplets on the inside of the barrel.

That's why the C3 has that funky plastic/carbon-fiber barrel; it doesn't transfer heat as well as aluminum or stainless, and so minimizes condensation.

That's also, I believe, why the gun didn't come with Tippman/A5 or 'Cocker threading- so players wouldn't/can't use a metal barrel.

Doc.

Makes sense. But no combustion gas should get into the barrel...

The combustion/Explosion drives the piston that compresses air. Is the air intake that close to the combustion exhaust? Too lazy to search for and look at the diagrams I have...

[Ace12GA]

I think Doc is referring to the fact that when you combust propane, part of the exhaust is water vapor, which will condense on a cool metal barrel, creating water droplets inside the marker.

[SlartyBartFast]

I think Doc is referring to the fact that when you combust propane, part of the exhaust is water vapor, which will condense on a cool metal barrel, creating water droplets inside the marker.

I know EXACTLY what Doc is talking about.

Just by the design, combustion gas shouldn't get to the barrel.

[Doc Nickel]

It's my understanding that combustion gasses directly fire the paintball.

Doc.

[SlartyBartFast]

It's my understanding that combustion gasses directly fire the paintball.

Doc.

Sorry, my stupid. :tard:

Looked up the WARPIG animation and my copy of the C3 parts diagram. :rolleyes:

Can't remember if I posted this before, but it was on my computer along with the C3 stuff:


How to make the C3-semi:

Currently, when the propane explodes, there is no movement of the piston required for the exhaust to vent through the velocity control piston.

If the piston was propelled back by the explosion before the exhaust gases could escape through the velocity adjusting piston, you could have one cylinder prime another.
So, not one combustion chamber, but two horizontally opposed cylinders that are fixed to a common shaft.

Cycling the bolt could perhaps simply be accomplished by using an Automag type blow-forward bolt or Tippmann type blow-back bolt.

For some reason I can't get the idea of a liquid cooled, V8 powered, Tippmann 98 out of my head. :rotfl Then when asking how many RPM a marker gets, it won't be because someone made a type or slip-up while asking about bps. :p

DAMN! How the semi version would work seems absolutely clear in my mind. My attraction to paintball and my Bachelor's in Automotive Design unite!

Think Tippmann is hiring? lol

[Jaan]

Doc,

You're right that 50k shots for a pump gun is excessive, but the thing to do is to simply make the tank smaller. It's certainly conceivable that the propane source could be small enough to fit unobtrusively inside the body of the gun, and small enough to play all day but still require a refill every time you played. We don't see big air source tanks as a problem now, and they're not really, but I think we could all live without them. I can imagine the current crop of paintball markers to be the equivalent of flintlocks ... not much different than hand canons and matchlocks before them. People used muzzleloaders for centuries and were perfectly happy with them until that one little bit of technology came along, the fulminated mercury cap and soon after cartridge ammunition. Don't forget, cartridge ammunition didn't catch on right away either.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I'm sure tanks as small as 12 Grams could be used with the C3.

That's all...

[Arstron]

Forget that. Those are huge. Use these:
http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=57466&catid=29108&brand=8408&trx=PLST-0-BRAND&trxp1=29108&trxp2=57466&trxp3=1&trxp4=0&btrx=BUY-PLST-0-BRAND&cmbProdBrandFilter=8408

Granted those are Butane. There are also tiny little oxygen and gas cylinders for micro welding and cutting torches.

Or, build in a small cylinder that can be refilled, say enough to shoot a case...

Or, how about Airsoft "Green Gas"?

I know I have heard of smaller tanks, that 40gram tank was the smallest I could find online. A 12 gram sized tank would be perfect though.

[JRingold]

They work great up here in Minnesota for the winter pump and pistols games. Nothing like carrying a hand warmer that shoots paintballs when it's below 15 degrees.

I haven't seen any outside of the winter games... There seems to be an appeal to those around here who play outlaw once or twice a year.

[SR_matt]

the whole thing about propane not being useful/needed as a propelent, was HPA needed? no u could get a palmers stab and an antisyphon and have no problems what so ever (and spend a little less money) but HPA caught on


and please dont start the whole well co2 doesnt work in this gun, that gun what ever cause there is a way to get it to work in any gun its jsut the question of how many regs and filters u would need.
-matt

[REDRT]

What Happened to Tippmans Propane Gun?

AGD

Very limited to no interest in it I feel. I think Doc has it down pretty good and has given it some thought. Why the interest in C3 Tippmanns? Maybe some thought on MAGs and us long time supporters ;)

[Doc Nickel]

the whole thing about propane not being useful/needed as a propelent, was HPA needed? no u could get a palmers stab and an antisyphon and have no problems what so ever (and spend a little less money) but HPA caught on

-You're forgetting that CO2 self-chills as the gas is used. The faster or the more you shoot, the cooler the tank gets. The cooler the tank gets, the lower the tank pressure, and so the lower the pressure going into the gun.

Palmer's Stabilizers and antisiphons can reduce some of the liquid effects, but no regulator can add pressure to the output.

Yes, Angels, Egos and Intimidators can run just fine on CO2, but after a fast pod or two, the tank cools down to below what the gun needs to cycle, and you get blooper shots. Cooler weather simply speeds up the process, but even hot weather can rarely keep up with CO2s cryogenic effects. So yes, you can, and do, have "problems" using CO2.

HPA offered far better temperature stability, and therefore far better consistency, and therefore improved accuracy. It let players play more and longer in cool weather or even winter, and so on. Early HPA systems sold for $300 to $450, so you paid dearly for those benefits, but enough players found it useful enough that it "caught on".

And that's the problem with the C3. Most fields have access to HPA or compressed nitrogen, and the systems themselves can be had for under $100 now. The C3 would have been revolutionary back in 1993. Still useful as recently as 1996 or '97, but today it's kinda pointless.


and please dont start the whole well co2 doesnt work in this gun, that gun what ever cause there is a way to get it to work in any gun its jsut the question of how many regs and filters u would need.
-matt

-Again, regs and filters can't ADD pressure. If the gun needs 300 PSI, and the tank cools off enough to only give you 200 psi (easy to do, especially with a fast gun and cool weather) then you get reduced velocity or blooper shots- if, indeed the gun even keeps working. (Like a Level-10-equipped 'Mag, for example.)

And even if the tank doesn't cool off completely, there's still the velocity fluctuation as the tank pressure drops, warms up between games, drops again, warms back up, gets refilled, etc.

HPA offered major improvements over CO2, which is why it caught on. Especially after people developed screw-in systems that could be easily adapted to older markers, as well as costing considerably less than the other systems of the time.

Propane offers one improvement- efficiency, or shots per tank- but adds several drawbacks (heat, condensation) and cannot be retrofitted to any other marker. In this case, the benefits are far outweighed by the drawbacks, and I suspect it'll be quietly forgotten.

Doc.

[SR_matt]

well ive never seen a co2 tank cool off that much that quickly but i can see how it would happen.

with a brand new stab i tried to dump liquid into my pump gun and didnt get any spikes at all (and my field has a bad habbit of over filling tanks so i know there was plenty of liquid).

i dont see how a co2 tank can cool off enough to drop from 850 psi down to sub 400 psi by just shooting a pod or 2 even if u literaly dump the psi out.
-matt

[Doc Nickel]

You haven't used CO2 much, have you? :D

Were you shooting the pump over a chronograph? Or just winging it and "seeing what'll happen"? A typical marker running unregged CO2 can easily see a 100FPS jump by going liquid, and a regulated marker that gets liquid past the reg, and then left to warm up a bit, can see more than that. The reg acts as a check valve, and so you can easily see 1,200+ psi at the valve chamber.

As for the tank cooling, a CO2 tank is only 850 PSI at 70 degrees. It's 750 psi at 60 degrees, 650 at 50 degrees, 550 at 40 degrees, and so on (very roughly, see this chart (http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2pv.gif) for details.)

Watch a store fill a CO2 tank. Typically they'll "bleed" it a bit (dump CO2) to cool the tank. If you've watched this, you've seen the "frost" form on the tank? That means the tank is below freezing- 32 degrees or below, or well under 500 psi. Doesn't take much bleeding to get it that cold, does it? Two or three seconds, in my experience. After ten, the tank "rattles"- the liquid CO2 inside has frozen into dry ice, twenty or thirty degrees below zero, and essentially zero pressure.

In any case, it's a moot point. The market- the players and buyers- have decided that HPA is a better propellant, and one that's basically required for any decently fast mid to high end marker.

Yes, CO2 is still a very workable and viable propellant, but HPA is better and eliminates several of CO2's definite drawbacks. As far as cost goes, while a CO2 tank is "cheaper", to get the best use, as you noted, it needs to be paired with a regulator. A Stabilizer is anywhere from $90 to $110, plus about $35 for the tank. While HPA tanks can be had for about the same price.

Doc.

[nerobro]

well ive never seen a co2 tank cool off that much that quickly but i can see how it would happen.

with a brand new stab i tried to dump liquid into my pump gun and didnt get any spikes at all (and my field has a bad habbit of over filling tanks so i know there was plenty of liquid).

i dont see how a co2 tank can cool off enough to drop from 850 psi down to sub 400 psi by just shooting a pod or 2 even if u literaly dump the psi out.
-matt

I think the key words there are "tried to dump" and "pump". If you're running liquid out of the tank, you're removing a smaller volume of material. So for the tank to maintain pressure, it only need to vaporize a very small amount of liquid. You're also saying you were using a pumpgun, they use even less co2 than a semi.

If you'd like to see just how fast you can make a gun inoperable on co2, grab a 9oz tank, at room temprature. Put it into a minimag, or any mag and point the gun so tank is vertical. That will keep the CO2 in the bottle, and assure you're drawing off only gas CO2. Start fireing, fast. I'll bet you get 15 shots out before it malfuctions. With my micromag I'd get 50-60 before I'd have a block of dry ice in my 20oz.

I wonder if any of my co2 tanks are still in date... That would be a fun video to post.

I think doc has it right. A decade ago the C3 technolgy would have been a worldbeater.

[SR_matt]

i used co2 for a year and a half when i started and started again when i built my pump. i was getting +/- 2 fps weather my tank is total full or down almost empty (my gun is running at 220 psi out of the stab)

yes doc i do know all the psi-temp stuff and yes i know the chilling and filling stuff (i used to fill tanks at the field... with out a scale, totaly stupid but ididnt know any better at the time because no one there used/had/or cared about a scale)

-matt

[billmi]

As I've said before, the C3 was an answer to an unasked question. It has no real purpose, fills no real need, sates no real demand.

I think the question of where can gas to power a paintgun was asked. But the problem is it has been answered. 18 years ago, when the question was unanswered for a lot of people, the C3 would have sold like hotcakes.

[don miguel]

my friend jordan has one and it sucks, propane, ha ha, propane jokes. noi it really does suck. it chops like a mother too, thats why they say it shoots 1/2 a ball per second. :D

[SR_matt]

if ur chopping with a pump its not the guns fault its the user
-matt

[d4m4don3]

if ur chopping with a pump its not the guns fault its the user
-matt
Actually with that gun its a possibility, if you fire it enough times the marker will heat the feedneck and warp the balls in the neck.

[PsychoBaller]

Heh, all the Smokers blew themselves up while smoking around the sucker! Stupid propane.





But seriously, I play at least once a month, or ever other - Scenarios or local woodsball stuffness, and have yet to EVER see this gun on the field yet.... ah well.





-baller

[Tool-of-death]

You haven't used CO2 much, have you? :D

Were you shooting the pump over a chronograph? Or just winging it and "seeing what'll happen"? A typical marker running unregged CO2 can easily see a 100FPS jump by going liquid, and a regulated marker that gets liquid past the reg, and then left to warm up a bit, can see more than that. The reg acts as a check valve, and so you can easily see 1,200+ psi at the valve chamber.

As for the tank cooling, a CO2 tank is only 850 PSI at 70 degrees. It's 750 psi at 60 degrees, 650 at 50 degrees, 550 at 40 degrees, and so on (very roughly, see this chart (http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2pv.gif) for details.)

Watch a store fill a CO2 tank. Typically they'll "bleed" it a bit (dump CO2) to cool the tank. If you've watched this, you've seen the "frost" form on the tank? That means the tank is below freezing- 32 degrees or below, or well under 500 psi. Doesn't take much bleeding to get it that cold, does it? Two or three seconds, in my experience. After ten, the tank "rattles"- the liquid CO2 inside has frozen into dry ice, twenty or thirty degrees below zero, and essentially zero pressure.

In any case, it's a moot point. The market- the players and buyers- have decided that HPA is a better propellant, and one that's basically required for any decently fast mid to high end marker.

Yes, CO2 is still a very workable and viable propellant, but HPA is better and eliminates several of CO2's definite drawbacks. As far as cost goes, while a CO2 tank is "cheaper", to get the best use, as you noted, it needs to be paired with a regulator. A Stabilizer is anywhere from $90 to $110, plus about $35 for the tank. While HPA tanks can be had for about the same price.

Doc.

He speaks the truth, I fill CO2 tanks every time I go paintballing.

What is really fun is my friend filled his 16oz CO2 tank up to probubly 15.8 oz and ran it under warm water. :D woo was that an interesting experience :D

However in my experience I've never actually seen a CO2 tank freeze or get to an inoperable pressure during normal gameplay, and combine a anti-siphon tube with a palmer stabalizer and you pretty much rule out alot of the drawbacks of CO2. If someone invented a heated palmer stab you would have almost not problums running CO2 on any gun (with the exception of an X-valved automag) with few very few problums.

Also, round here CO2 is around $0.50-1.00 per fill vs. the $10-15
HPA fill.

also just for the record most pump guns out there are designed for CO2. so really you cannot get effective results....

[Tool-of-death]

my friend jordan has one and it sucks, propane, ha ha, propane jokes. noi it really does suck. it chops like a mother too, thats why they say it shoots 1/2 a ball per second. :D

My friend had one an when it worked I liked it, bit big and bulky but it was still a great gun none the less.

Also if you choping you are either A: pumping to fast, 2: using crappy paint, c: being retarded.

[Miscue]

As I've said before, the C3 was an answer to an unasked question. It has no real purpose, fills no real need, sates no real demand.


Here's a question... "How do I get my marker to shoot flames?" I want fire to come out... and perhaps with some modifications... I could shoot paintballs that are on fire. I think that would be at least 5 minutes of pointless fun.

[d4m4don3]

Here's a question... "How do I get my marker to shoot flames?" I want fire to come out... and perhaps with some modifications... I could shoot paintballs that are on fire. I think that would be at least 5 minutes of pointless fun.
Fire the c3 in the dark you'll see the flames :wow:

[Tool-of-death]

Here's a question... "How do I get my marker to shoot flames?" I want fire to come out... and perhaps with some modifications... I could shoot paintballs that are on fire. I think that would be at least 5 minutes of pointless fun.

doesent work like that, the C-3 does a good job of burning all of the propane in the chamber, at most you'll feel a little blast of heat.

[Miscue]

Fire the c3 in the dark you'll see the flames :wow:

That's not good enough... what's the point of a propane gun if it doesn't shoot visible flames all the time? I want something like this (note the backpack loader) to shoot paintballs:

<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Usafl_notes_.jpg">

[SlartyBartFast]

That's not good enough... I want something like this (note the backpack loader) that shoots paintballs:

Wagner makes the paintball version of that I believe. ;)