Worrisome marker features - what do you think?

[Lohman446]

I recently had the chance to test one of the most amazing pieces of machinery available to paintball players. It was an awesome marker, capable of nearly 40BPS. I did happen to read something though in the owners manual that concerned me

If the trigger is not tuned very very carefully to avoid it, and the user has set it right, they can hold the trigger in one certain spot and the marker goes full auto.

When in this full auto mode, if you have not used an obscure setting to chrono it, the marker will rise far above the chronoed at speed. Users have reported 10FPS and higher spikes.

What do you think AO?

[SCpoloRicker]

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/6644/owlwhatyoudid2bm.jpg

[the123]

I recently had the chance to test one of the most amazing pieces of machinery available to paintball players. It was an awesome marker, capable of nearly 40BPS. I did happen to read something though in the owners manual that concerned me

If the trigger is not tuned very very carefully to avoid it, and the user has set it right, they can hold the trigger in one certain spot and the marker goes full auto.

When in this full auto mode, if you have not used an obscure setting to chrono it, the marker will rise far above the chronoed at speed. Users have reported 10FPS and higher spikes.

What do you think AO?

Reminds me of an RT valve, if the marker is not chronoed by using the set procedure, fps can be higher than the safe, legal limit. Which piece of machinery did you test?

[1337caesar]

I recently had the chance to test one of the most amazing pieces of machinery available to paintball players. It was an awesome marker, capable of nearly 40BPS. I did happen to read something though in the owners manual that concerned me

If the trigger is not tuned very very carefully to avoid it, and the user has set it right, they can hold the trigger in one certain spot and the marker goes full auto.

When in this full auto mode, if you have not used an obscure setting to chrono it, the marker will rise far above the chronoed at speed. Users have reported 10FPS and higher spikes.

What do you think AO?


Sounds dangerous. we should ban them and force the company who makes them to produce a new high end electro even better than the last one they released...

if only it was so easy....

[behemoth]

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/6644/owlwhatyoudid2bm.jpg
qft.

[iambored]

Where do you get the mexican owl pics? And can't you do that with any poorly tuned electro
(I'm no electro expert)

[bentothejam1n]

I recently had the chance to test one of the most amazing pieces of machinery available to paintball players. It was an awesome marker, capable of nearly 40BPS. I did happen to read something though in the owners manual that concerned me

If the trigger is not tuned very very carefully to avoid it, and the user has set it right, they can hold the trigger in one certain spot and the marker goes full auto.

When in this full auto mode, if you have not used an obscure setting to chrono it, the marker will rise far above the chronoed at speed. Users have reported 10FPS and higher spikes.

What do you think AO?
What gun is it? Some ramping isnt that much different like mode 3 and 4 on my tadao'd borg. i forget what the mode is called but its psp or nxl. i personally dont care if some one was shooting full auto. It probably takes them longer to refill their hopper than to shoot it, well atleast the people i play with
ahh i feel stupid

[CKY_Alliance]

What gun is it? Some ramping isnt that much different like mode 3 and 4 on my tadao'd borg. i forget what the mode is called but its psp or nxl. i personally dont care if some one was shooting full auto. It probably takes them longer to re
fill their hopper than to shoot it, well atleast the people i play with


its not the ramping that is worrisome..its the verlocity increase...but idk if its only 10-20 then chrono it lower then legal limit so it rises to that..but most people wouldnt be considerate enough to do that, ive been shot with like 320-330+ it hurts but not much worse then 300...wasnt ramping velocity becoming pretty popular not long ago? Like didnt people start making boards that could do this..i guess by changing the dwell? well i say that in past tense but it may still be very present...the manufactuer should work on that, there got to be a fix, they just dont want to spend the money for the R&D.

[ahellers]

umm. i could be wrong but i belive hes talking about an automag with an RT or X valve :ninja:
t

[wjr]

I feel a bit behind the curve here... but isn't he talking about the E-mag?

[Head knight of Ni]

I recently had the chance to test one of the most amazing pieces of machinery available to paintball players. It was an awesome marker, capable of nearly 40BPS. I did happen to read something though in the owners manual that concerned me

If the trigger is not tuned very very carefully to avoid it, and the user has set it right, they can hold the trigger in one certain spot and the marker goes full auto.

When in this full auto mode, if you have not used an obscure setting to chrono it, the marker will rise far above the chronoed at speed. Users have reported 10FPS and higher spikes.

What do you think AO?

Talking in ifs is fine and well. The on-field experiences show us otherwise. When fields open at 9 am and don't require CO2 users to re-chronograph at 2 pm with 10-30 degree differences then we can call-out the more obscure problems.

PS- You're not that sneaky. :ninja:

[ahellers]

so do we get a prize for figuring it out now? :confused:
t

[Head knight of Ni]

so do we get a prize for figuring it out now? :confused:
t

*cough*RT/X-valve*cough*

[lather]

I think you are talking about an RT valved Mag. ;)

Although, any velocity spikes are highly dependent on the amount of input pressure to the RT/X valve.

Though technically you can increase velocity with an Electro that has a board with an ABS feature. (Increases dwell time of the first shot if the gun hasnt been shot for a user defined unit of time to eliminate FSDO). But thats one shot at a higher velocity after every 5-10 secs of non shooting at least.

[dahoeb]

i think i see what youre getting at, Lohman....
in my "piece of machinery", even when i sweet spot it and get it going full auto, its still slower than people with other ramping "pieces of machinery" and when i release the trigger it immediately stops, no extra rounds flying out like with ramping.
and if my "piece of machinery" does go up in velocity, i've never noticed.

either way, the only time i can sweet spot a "piece of machinery" to go full auto is in the staging area, if i really try; even then its only like 3 rounds before i lose it.....
i have really slow fingers so i can never get my machinery to shoot fast ;).....

unless you have the pressure cranked up, its very hard to get those conditions in-game. i'd be a lot more worried about boards that are MADE TO do exactly what you described, instead of being just some weird by-product of its operation

[SummaryJudgement]

I played against the Jax Warriors (back in the day), when they had RTs before they were on the market. I got a first hand taste of what an RT could on the field AFTER it was chronoed. Ouch...................

[FinchMan]

It was an awesome marker, capable of nearly 40BPS.

That just about gives it away. :tard:

I guess it could be a problem, but only if the owner of said awesome marker chooses to abuse it and nobody else is smart enough to tell.

Perhaps they should ban this marker from tournaments just to be safe. :ninja:

[Lohman446]

I played against the Jax Warriors (back in the day), when they had RTs before they were on the market. I got a first hand taste of what an RT could on the field AFTER it was chronoed. Ouch...................


Oh, you mean before the RT effect on velocity and trigger were public knowledge?

[dahoeb]

I played against the Jax Warriors (back in the day), when they had RTs before they were on the market. I got a first hand taste of what an RT could on the field AFTER it was chronoed. Ouch...................
let me play devils advocate for a moment.....
assuming they chronoed at 270fps, upon getting hit, would you be able to say, "wow, they were definately shooting 283fps!" maybe they just hit you in a more painful than normal spot? maybe just close range on sensitive area? theres a lot of factors to consider...

i'm not really trying to dispute your claim that those markers might've been hot, but i've just never seen or heard anyone complain after getting shot with a mag, complaining that the valve was shooting hot.

my point (as it relates to the thread in general) is that when almost ANY paintball gun starts shooting fast, the velocity will bounce around some and you'll have a good chance of getting hit with a hot paintball. i don't think its "OK" that the rt velocity will increase over rapid long strings, so please don't get the wrong idea and i'm not trying to justify it happening really, just laying out another point of view.

also, just out of curiosity lohman, how fast did the marker have to shoot before the velocity increase?

[ahellers]

well its my understanding that a paintball when fired slows considerably after being fired, so i would have to wonder how fast a paintball is generaly going when it hits you, i mean to get hit at 300 fps you would have to put your face right in front of the barral. so if a gun does happen to be shooting hot i dont belive you would be able to tell when it hit you.
t

[Jaan]

I recently had the chance to test one of the most amazing pieces of machinery available to paintball players. It was an awesome marker, capable of nearly 40BPS ...
What do you think AO?
Still too slow. That's only 1 ball every 7 feet at 280 fps. You need to bump it up a bit so there are at least 2 balls at a time in a 12" barrel because the front ball will create a negative air space and suck the ball behind it out thereby cancelling the effect of turbulence in front of the ball and giving you better accuracy.

[AGD]

Oh, you mean before the RT effect on velocity and trigger were public knowledge?

In fact it was always public knowledge (thats why SP tried to have it banned when the Shocker was outlawed). We quoted a chrono procedure from day one where you hold the trigger back, release and fire quickly to see the effect of velocity climb and take that into account. Runaway was never allowed in tournaments so velocity climb at those rates was not a factor.

AGD

[Lenny]

Wait... what's the point of this thread?

Probably to "teach us" something...

[Head knight of Ni]

Wait... what's the point of this thread?

Probably to "teach us" something...

It was to try to show that 'Mag owners are just as blindly biased as anyone else.

[ahellers]

well it didnt seem to me that it took to long to catch on. in fact i only see one post that didnt get it.
t

[AGDRetro]

All I have "learned" from this is that Lohman446 is a retard, but that was a decision I'd already come to a while back after reading, well any one of his posts really...

[Head knight of Ni]

All I have "learned" from this is that Lohman446 is a retard, but that was a decision I'd already come to a while back after reading, well any one of his posts really...

:rolleyes: Lohman is one of the better posters on this forum.



/Lohman not Yakitori...

[Indignant]

All I have "learned" from this is that Lohman446 is a retard, but that was a decision I'd already come to a while back after reading, well any one of his posts really...


Because YOU'RE a really productive poster...

[gibby]

Okay...so I haven't been keep up with loader technology. But what loader can achieve that 40bps limit? Qloader? And if there isn't one, why bring it up anyway if it's not currently possible with today's loaders?

[lather]

All I have "learned" from this is that Lohman446 is a retard, but that was a decision I'd already come to a while back after reading, well any one of his posts really...

ehh not worth the time......

[Beemer]

I recently had the chance to test one of the most amazing pieces of machinery available to paintball players. It was an awesome marker, capable of nearly 40BPS. I did happen to read something though in the owners manual that concerned me

If the trigger is not tuned very very carefully to avoid it, and the user has set it right, they can hold the trigger in one certain spot and the marker goes full auto.

When in this full auto mode, if you have not used an obscure setting to chrono it, the marker will rise far above the chronoed at speed. Users have reported 10FPS and higher spikes.

What do you think AO?

I know I said you were on a roll but what is your motivation? What is this amazing piece of machinery of which you speak. :ninja: Did somebody get in your Cherios?

Dont be bitter cause you are hitting the burn out phase. The Wizard told me I would hit it to.
That was back in 95. I said no way. He just grinned and said you will see its just a matter of time. I was 28 when I started playing. I hit burn out 16 years later. Most of that was hard core tourny bla bla. Dam the flipping Wizard was right. I never Quit, I still play. Its just a bad withdrawal thing. You will get thru it. You wont quit. Just like I didnt. Its like a heroin addict. You will still need a fix when you can get it. :shooting: How long have you been Playing this stupid GAME? :spit_take


Now if you have other real issues you are concerned about maybe you can find help.
If you really want to push the TK safety button go ahead but be warned. I did it at lunch once with him and I swear I saw some real fire in his eyes. I dont think he likes me much after that lunch. I have a bad habit of asking to many right questions.

If you have a fight to pick or a point to prove, with SAFETY or anything else I think you need to step back and look at the Whole Industry. That is where the real issues are. Not just AGD.
He put his Name on the Standards and SAFETY first and look what happened.

Peace Out

____________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

[SlartyBartFast]

Wait... what's the point of this thread?

Probably to "teach us" something...

Nah Lohman's in a bad mood and let the troll out from under the bridge. :rolleyes:

Seriously Lohman, how about keeping the baiting and trolling to one thread per subject? This seems like the fourth one on the same basic whine.

[SummaryJudgement]

Oh, you mean before the RT effect on velocity and trigger were public knowledge?

Oh yeah....laser beams man, laser beams....

Oh yeah, and Tom's right (well, naturally). The chrono procedure was pretty well established with the RT's, but that also taught you how to intentionally produce a hot shot. I never accused anyone I played with of intentionally "cheating" (because everyone was nice all in all), but you'd be a range where their shots would almost be rolling on the ground towards your feet, and then....laser beams :wow:

[hitech]

Users have reported 10FPS and higher spikes.

You're kidding, 10 fps spikes. That's crazy. 10 fps over the limit will break masks, leave open wounds in players at close range and is unsafe! All markers that can vary that much should be banned....


:rofl:

[SlartyBartFast]

:rofl:

QFT.

Seems to me some people need to get their medication adjusted. :p

[SR_matt]

to end the dwell increase = more fps debate, after lasoya was accused of it peopel started testing it, any gun that uses an lpr to push the ram forward into a valve will not get a large jump is fps weather the dwell is lowest or highest (i think the jump was sub 10 fps, this was in PB2X last year)

unless some one could adjust the lpr via electronics you dont need to worry about dwell ramping on most guns
-matt

[robnix]

I recently had the chance to test one of the most amazing pieces of machinery available to paintball players. It was an awesome marker, capable of nearly 40BPS. I did happen to read something though in the owners manual that concerned me

If the trigger is not tuned very very carefully to avoid it, and the user has set it right, they can hold the trigger in one certain spot and the marker goes full auto.

When in this full auto mode, if you have not used an obscure setting to chrono it, the marker will rise far above the chronoed at speed. Users have reported 10FPS and higher spikes.

What do you think AO?

This is a trick question isn't it?

[CrimsonGhost]

Well since we are asking opinion..

I would LIKE to think the makers of ANY marker would do EVERYTHING in thier power to NOT make a marker capable of spiking,running away at the trigger etc.
I would LOVE to think the makers of a marker would make the marker so air tight that it is impossible for a customer to mod.
cough cough ...RIIIIGHT!

But nearly all markers are able to do so now days.
Talented tech and devious owners have always tried to get a "leg up" on other players.
Cockers, Thumbing the backcblocks,
Shocker s/f (shoeboxes) it was the covering the bleed off cap.
RT, self explained and well known ways to "cheat" .
Co2, use chemical handwarmers on the bottle after the chrono.
Chrono any marker with the barrel backed out ...different speeds.
Make a 2 faced bolt for a removable bolt marker...one is normal flow, one is restricted.
Aadjustable dwell from the tirgger, modes, bounce,etc. all part of the new age of electros.

Is it right?
No.

But since NO company has been able to kill cheating or fudging completely ...seems we are going to have this convo until the sport is banned.
You tighten one screw...2 more come out.

:cheers:

[Gunga]

i think i see what youre getting at, Lohman....
in my "piece of machinery", even when i sweet spot it and get it going full auto, its still slower than people with other ramping "pieces of machinery" and when i release the trigger it immediately stops, no extra rounds flying out like with ramping.
and if my "piece of machinery" does go up in velocity, i've never noticed.

either way, the only time i can sweet spot a "piece of machinery" to go full auto is in the staging area, if i really try; even then its only like 3 rounds before i lose it.....
i have really slow fingers so i can never get my machinery to shoot fast ;).....

unless you have the pressure cranked up, its very hard to get those conditions in-game. i'd be a lot more worried about boards that are MADE TO do exactly what you described, instead of being just some weird by-product of its operation

An RT/X-Valve or any variant thereof can go full auto. However, it's a malfunction not a feature, unlike the various shooting modes on e-guns. Nor can you 'dial-a-bps' accurately as with an e-gun. Unless you have spare on/off pins or an ajustable tank, you can't turn bouncing on or off. Even if you did have the pins and an adjustable tank, it's a PITA.

RT bounce has unfortunately been publicized so much (Zak's videos being a big part) that kids want to 'fix' their properly functioning guns to bounce. In other words, cheat. :tard:

[dahoeb]

An RT/X-Valve or any variant thereof can go full auto. However, it's a malfunction not a feature, unlike the various shooting modes on e-guns. Nor can you 'dial-a-bps' accurately as with an e-gun. Unless you have spare on/off pins or an ajustable tank, you can't turn bouncing on or off. Even if you did have the pins and an adjustable tank, it's a PITA.

RT bounce has unfortunately been publicized so much (Zak's videos being a big part) that kids want to 'fix' their properly functioning guns to bounce. In other words, cheat. :tard:

hmm
thats a good point, although i think this malfunction is pretty rare unless you tinker with the marker. the only time i had full auto and other uncontrollable issues is when i fudged up my ULT and have never personally seen someone else pull it off during a game.
i definately see where you're coming from though.

[SlartyBartFast]

that kids want to 'fix' their properly functioning guns to bounce. In other words, cheat. :tard:

Another important point ot consider. Once a Mag is set up to cheat, it's setup to cheat.

It would be very difficult (I won't venture saying impossible) if not improbable for a gun to behave legally before a game and be changed to an illegal mode by the player between the time the marker is chrono'd and the game begins.

Unlike electronics which can easily be setup to be legal when checked and illegal once the player is using the marker.

[glickstue]

to end the dwell increase = more fps debate, after lasoya was accused of it peopel started testing it, any gun that uses an lpr to push the ram forward into a valve will not get a large jump is fps weather the dwell is lowest or highest (i think the jump was sub 10 fps, this was in PB2X last year)

unless some one could adjust the lpr via electronics you dont need to worry about dwell ramping on most guns
-matt


Your statement seems to defy logic if you hold the valve open on a knock open valve marker such as a timmy, bushmaster or ego for longer via an increase in dwell time you will see an increase in fps.

I actually tried it this afternoon and with as little as a change in dwell time of .5 ms I saw 10 to 20 fps changes in velocity. I started with my ego in the 290 fps @ 8 ms of dwell and increased the dwell by .5 ms and re-cronoed the gun. By the time I hit 10.5 ms of dwell my ego was firing at about 390 fps I even had one shot go as high as 413.


A regulated valve on a paintball marker is nothing more than a means to deliver a predetermined amount of air. If you change the amount of time that valve is opened or the pressure of the regulated air sitting on the other side of the valve you change the amount of air delivered.

[SR_matt]

i think the reason behind what heppened was that on the markers tested the lpr was able to charge up the ram to its full psi almost imedately so by leaving the ram forward longer it didnt do much because teh valve had pushed the ram back and closed off the valve.

i really think it depends on how the lpr is tuned to the gun and how fast it can charge the area it is to fill

i knwo it is some what illogical but i know it was printed with proof and it can seem just as logical as illogical

-matt

[shaunyoung000]

I think it's ridiculous what some of these guns are doing. If the reg is set at 15bps, why go any higher? If you have auto, only to 15, it shouldn't make much of a difference. However this velocity spike is very confusing. There's really no practical application other than to get people hurt. However, most fields allow chrono to 280 only to remedy this problem, giving themselves a type of fudge factor.

Some of the companies producing such "cheater boards" and double switches on boards, need to realize what the purpose of paintball is. And that it is a game to have fun. Too many times have I seen a young player get the impression that he/she should only play to win. Or seeing how many people they can overshoot.

Considering the character of most people, of course it's in our nature to like to win, but to what expense? Running newbies and amateurs away from the sport from blistering bruises? Parents prohibiting their kids from playing because of potential dangers? Someone's permanent visual injury due to high velocity, or even worse death?

Just my thoughts. I remember playing when tournament games lasted close to an hour, and strategy and skill were the elements to be a good player. The game has evolved so much since I first began playing. Regardless, I have changed my play style to adapt as well, but for how long?

[glickstue]

i think the reason behind what heppened was that on the markers tested the lpr was able to charge up the ram to its full psi almost imedately so by leaving the ram forward longer it didnt do much because teh valve had pushed the ram back and closed off the valve.

i really think it depends on how the lpr is tuned to the gun and how fast it can charge the area it is to fill

i knwo it is some what illogical but i know it was printed with proof and it can seem just as logical as illogical

-matt

That would mean the LPR was most likely improperly tuned, you want the lpr pressure set up so that it can apply just enough force to hold the completely valve open. Too little pressure and you get inconsistent performance and beat down, too much pressure and you end up with excessive paint breakage.

Someone tell me if my reasoning is wrong though???

[tribalman]

Unfortunately, there is. The first is to have greater range. This is a huge benefit off the break. The second is to have a faster ball that is MUCH harder to dodge.

to all players who use the dwell cheat or have an easy way to adjust your volocity(not allen keys, i mean thumb screws or other means) i have one question, are you willing to risk my physical well being just so you can "win at all costs". thank you, i really appreciate that.

i have personally had this happen to me. it was at a big game. i was 2 field widths away from the opposing teams base. it was fairly open field, there were bunkers, but they were setup the wrong way(typically the field runs N-S, but cause it was a big game, field boundries were taken out so the fields went E-W)and i was out of range, so i walked up. i knew they were there, i knew they saw me walk up cause i heard them start shooting as soon i was about 1 1/2 field widths away. i then stopped, and watched shots bounce off me with no force at all. i stood there, and danced. after a while they realized no shots were hitting, and the shots slowed. i kept dancing. now i never took my eyes off of the opposing players. all of a sudden a few shots went wizzing past my head as if i was in a speed ball field and we were 30 feet apart. at that point a ducked into a bunker. how could this have happened? a person ran up. nope. from another side? nope, i watched the shot come from straight ahead.

now what could have happened if this moron forgot to turn his volocity back down when he is in closer combat with either myself or other players?

i think markers need to not only have a bps lock, not just regulations, but a lock. the board won't allow the player to shoot faster. and also have volocity locks. it should still allow for some adjustment, but not nearly as much as now. this game is way to unsafe and it is really making me think about quitting, which is really sad to me cause i love to play the game.

there is a 300 fps limit for a reason! don't go above it for any reason. you want better range? aim the gun up a bit more! shots not breaking? get closer! please stop risking physical harm of others just cause you want to think you are better!

[SR_matt]

while i like the idea of FPS locks it would be imposiable for them to work correctly. look at a spyder, there is not way to prevent adjusting the velecioty there. cockers, throw a harder spring in. every mechanical gun will not allow for it and i cant think of an electro pneumatic that the system couldnt be jumped around pretty easily
-matt

[teufelhunden]

An RT/X-Valve or any variant thereof can go full auto. However, it's a malfunction not a feature, unlike the various shooting modes on e-guns. Nor can you 'dial-a-bps' accurately as with an e-gun. Unless you have spare on/off pins or an ajustable tank, you can't turn bouncing on or off. Even if you did have the pins and an adjustable tank, it's a PITA.

RT bounce has unfortunately been publicized so much (Zak's videos being a big part) that kids want to 'fix' their properly functioning guns to bounce. In other words, cheat. :tard:


I can't really think of that many other products that have a "malfunction" that is so easy to reproduce under normal use. I'm sure some car, somewhere has a problem with its cruise control software, but I've never heard of "ZOMG IF YOU HOLD THE ACCELERATOR IN JUST THE RIGHT PLACE YOU GO 150 MPH"

Nor have I ever heard of a "malfunction" being used in product advertising.

[REDRT]

I can't really think of that many other products that have a "malfunction" that is so easy to reproduce under normal use. I'm sure some car, somewhere has a problem with its cruise control software, but I've never heard of "ZOMG IF YOU HOLD THE ACCELERATOR IN JUST THE RIGHT PLACE YOU GO 150 MPH"

Nor have I ever heard of a "malfunction" being used in product advertising.

I wouldn't consider it to be a malfunction. One tigger pull is a pull and release. RTs push back on the release. Sweat spoting is nothing more than a shorter pull and release. It is still there, but it is short. Because the valve recharges so fast it is able to keep up in rapid bursts seemingly like some full auto, ranaway, malfuction as its been improperly called. It's more like a mecanically enhansed semi auto. You let go of the trigger on an RT is stops firing. I've picked up many electros set to continue to fire after you've stopped shooting with no fingures on the trigger due to additional shots added per the ramping features! An RT will never do that ever. Also If one has never witnessed a true ranaway mag you just don't know. Rts are slow in compairison to a true runaway.

[SR_matt]

^^^ put an RT onoff in ur mag with an oring up in the hole and your mag will run away and cant even shoot 2 balls out (i couldnt get the mag to only shoot 1 shot, it did at least 3 )
-matt

[REDRT]

^^^ put an RT onoff in ur mag with an oring up in the hole and your mag will run away and cant even shoot 2 balls out (i couldnt get the mag to only shoot 1 shot, it did at least 3 )
-matt

Hahh? You make no sence in your writings to me.

[SR_matt]

i installed my RT on off incorrectly (i put an oring sitting ontop of the onoff in the valve) it basicaly went totaly FA
-matt

[RoadDawg]

i installed my RT on off incorrectly (i put an oring sitting ontop of the onoff in the valve) it basicaly went totaly FA
-matt

Keyword is bolded.

AGD advertises that the valve can reach __ bps without drop off. It doesn't say it will shoot that fast every time under normal use. It's claiming the recharge rate is better then any other valve out there. Is that really advertising that it is shooting at full auto? Now the malfunction is just that. It doesn't happen all the time, you have to look for it. Every player I've met with a mag can't afford to take the time to "sweet spot" it on the field. It takes them away from the game and people are putting so much paint on them from the ramping software that they don't have time to find it anyway. Those with adjustable tanks who put the input over 1000 can reproduce it easier but they won't make it past chrono if the ref knows how to test the RT.

The velocity spikes are never that bad if you've chrono'ed properly and have a decent tank on gun. AGD even goes over how to properly chrono your RT. This is not different then any other marker on the field. I've seen Spyders jump 15+/- consistantly, same with any "rental" marker.

tribal- People won't care about other players safety until you do get hurt. Otherwise they just want to win and will do what it takes to do so, especially if it's a tourny. Until tournies start punishing players who continue to play unsafe it will continue. Hell I've had it done to me in practices by a spoiled little "bear".

[mobsterboy]

I can't really think of that many other products that have a "malfunction" that is so easy to reproduce under normal use. I'm sure some car, somewhere has a problem with its cruise control software, but I've never heard of "ZOMG IF YOU HOLD THE ACCELERATOR IN JUST THE RIGHT PLACE YOU GO 150 MPH"

Nor have I ever heard of a "malfunction" being used in product advertising.

guess you dont look into video games or computer software much, do you?

[teufelhunden]

guess you dont look into video games or computer software much, do you?


Plenty. However, most software bugs aren't of the "press the J key and I get an error" unless its your own system that's fragged. They're more of the "In a little shop in Ironforge if I look at the wall just right and spin as fast as I can the graphics card crashes" or "In dust2 when I climb on top of the crates at bombsite A I can AWP the terrorist spawn"

Not "I hold my finger in the right place and I get a simulated F/A effect!"