Rifled barrels and...wait for it...Reballs?!

[shorty24]

So the whole debate with rifled barrels being more accurate died because you can't effectively use rifling on an object filled with a liquid. Fair enough. I am curious as to how they would work with reballs though. Is there any reason why they couldn't/wouldn't? Has anyone tried this yet?

[Lohman446]

So the whole debate with rifled barrels being more accurate died because you can't effectively use rifling on an object filled with a liquid. Fair enough. I am curious as to how they would work with reballs though. Is there any reason why they couldn't/wouldn't? Has anyone tried this yet?


Wow, its a good consideration. I still think that your going to come down to too light of a spherical object for its size to be really effective but that does kill off one of the main arguments against it. Understand though at least some rifled barrels the rifling bore is so much bigger than the ball its not going to touch. Interesting thought though, maybe.

[Pneumagger]

They would work much better than a paintball for the reason you list. When hunting in ohio for example, you can only hunt deer with a shotgun or muzzleloader. Muzzleloaders are rifled for this very reason and achieve excelent accuracy...if you know how shoot them. A skilled shooter can easily tell the difference between a rifled and unrifled muzzle loader.

Personally, I feel that at speeds of 300fps, a spherical object doesn't cut enough wind for rifling to really have an impact. Also, it may have something to do with the fact that paintballs sort of "sit" in the bore of a gun. They are not real tight fits like a real gun, which is why paintball barrels may be deficient at spinning a paintball. After shooting a pistol or rifle with lead practice rounds, you can clearly see that there may be shavings of lead in the barrel, indicating tight mating surfaces.

Edit:
Bahh, lohman beat me to it

[LegumeOfTerror]

it would be a small difference, if any, i would think. the preveiosly mentioned lack of mass and the fact that spheres are terrible projectiles would ruin most of the effects. thats my guess anyhow...

[CrimsonGhost]

Sounds like an excuse for somoeone with a cam,Armson barrel, and time to do some testing.

I know that using a SOLID gel ball sized at .699 in an armson barrel (years ago) shot straight ..at 25 ft using a bolted down cocker on a bench. ball drop was less than 1/4 " at this range. Chronoed at 300 fps. Target was a cardboard stack and a piece of paper.
Never thought anything of it because....what good is a solid gel ball?(Unless your playing Submission ball)
Still fun to play with though.

We used a mech cocker because thats all there was at the time(years ago hehe) and we were in a cocker shop.
Revi loader. with a board mod.
88 ci 45k tank
Palmer Stab reg
Palmer Rock lpr/cocking reg.
Sto Pneumatics.
LPR chamber
Tornado valve.
Full face open bolt.

I would love to see what a reball type round does under test.
:cheers:

[shorty24]

Well see, I ask because I just purchased a PTP micromag body and it came with the stock Armson rifled barrel. And all our practices at GVSU are done with...reballs! So I can't wait til I have this gun up and running to test it out!

[Shingo]

Are there barrels available that are tight enough to match reballs? I have a case of Reballs and they all look perfectly round and their sizes/weight are very consistant with each other. I would think these would perform better then a "perfect" case of the best paint out there if you can get a good paint / barrel match.



~Shingo~

[shaunyoung000]

yeah, maybe with a tight rifled barrel, about 684 is what my reballs are

[Doc Nickel]

There will be very little improvement, because it isn't the liquid fill, it's the shape.

The liquid does not flow, spin or slosh in relation to the shell- the masses (weights) are absurdly small, and the viscosity and surface tension are correspondingly very high.

Yeah, we've all heard the "spin a bowl with ice water in it" example. Except that's not right- try spinning a bowl full of Hershey's chocolate syrup instead.

The shell doesn't "wobble" or deform to any measurable degree. It's too brittle and being spherical, it's too well self-supported.

The fill can't "slosh" because being 100% full, there's nowhere for the fill to slosh to.

So for the purposes we subject them to, paintballs can be considered effectively solid.

That said, the sphere is aerodynamically poor- that why we invented Minie` balls and later pointed, elongated bullets. Spinning the ball will do little or nothing, because there's no long axis or aerodynamic "center" for it.

Worse, Reballs and T-Balls do have seams and "nubs" from the injection-molding process. And since these will be randomly aligned in the bore just as a paintball's seam would be, inducing a spin will produce erratic lift effects just like with a regular paintball. (IE, like Z-bodies and Flatlines.)

Now, somebody mold the ReBall material into a Minie` ball projectile shape with the same overall weight, and then you'll see an improvement in accuracy.

Doc.

[Temo Vryce]

That has got to be the best arguement for the glass of ice water theory I have read yet. I have always used raw eggs but the chocolate suryp is a great referrence.

Your paint to barrel match will depend on when the barrel was manufactured. If it was made when the rifling bit was brand new it will have a large bore. If it was made closed to the end of the life cycle of the bit it will be smaller bore. I only know this because I have shot to identical Armson Stealth barrels. One would shoot small bore paint like Diablo Inferno like a dream the other prefered larger bore paint like Zap.

Will the barrel have an effect on the reballs? Yes I believe so. Will be better than that of it's effect on paintballs? That I can't answer as I have never used reballs. I am interested in knowing how it works out for you though.

Thanks again for the wonderful post Doc. It brought tears of joy to my face.

[shartley]

There will be very little improvement, because it isn't the liquid fill, it's the shape.

The liquid does not flow, spin or slosh in relation to the shell- the masses (weights) are absurdly small, and the viscosity and surface tension are correspondingly very high.

Yeah, we've all heard the "spin a bowl with ice water in it" example. Except that's not right- try spinning a bowl full of Hershey's chocolate syrup instead.

The shell doesn't "wobble" or deform to any measurable degree. It's too brittle and being spherical, it's too well self-supported.

The fill can't "slosh" because being 100% full, there's nowhere for the fill to slosh to.

So for the purposes we subject them to, paintballs can be considered effectively solid.

That said, the sphere is aerodynamically poor- that why we invented Minie` balls and later pointed, elongated bullets. Spinning the ball will do little or nothing, because there's no long axis or aerodynamic "center" for it.

Worse, Reballs and T-Balls do have seams and "nubs" from the injection-molding process. And since these will be randomly aligned in the bore just as a paintball's seam would be, inducing a spin will produce erratic lift effects just like with a regular paintball. (IE, like Z-bodies and Flatlines.)

Now, somebody mold the ReBall material into a Minie` ball projectile shape with the same overall weight, and then you'll see an improvement in accuracy.

Doc.
I think aside from all this great information the REAL reason it will not work is because for rifling to work on a REAL firearm the round must conform to the rifeling and it is actually cut into the round. The black powder example used by another member is closer to what happens, but is lacking the critical factor of the ball being shaped by the rifling.

As someone who has shot both smooth bored muskets and rifled Kentucky rifles (both being black powder and flint lock from the same time period) I can tell you that not only is there a difference in firing, but in loading as well. The musket ball simply drops into the barrel and is held in place by the paper cartridge being rammed down after it. While the KR on the other hand is a much different story. The ball is almost the same size as the boar (where a musket ball is not even close) and then a patch of cloth is placed around the ball and forcibly rammed down the barrel. This action actually cuts the grooves in the ball as it is loaded. Then when fired it uses those same grooves and spins as it is shot out of the weapon.

The seams on the rounds make no difference. And both balls to be fired by muskets as well as KRs have seams from casting… similar to paintballs.

It is the loading and conforming aspects that make the rounds do what they do as well as their size.

I will argue however that the statement that a ball spinning will do little to nothing because it does not have a long axes or aerodynamic center is not entirely correct. It sounds good on paper but anyone who has shot a musket VS a KR will attest that the rifling goes indeed impart spin which makes it more accurate. Yes, the mini-ball shape did greatly increase that accuracy, but there was indeed still a notable difference between a musket and a Kentucky rifle even though the balls were both round.

I would say that with a reball it would not work the same though since you would have to make the ball actually conform to the rifling and be the correct size to do so. And then you have the length of the barrel and the speed of the ball to factor in as well.

All in all though I just don’t see it as being worth even trying. I see it as an academic exercise and little more than mental masturbation for paintball forums. Why? Because the sport uses (for the most part) standard paintballs and not reballs.