07 AGD emag...kinda

[bunny5]

“Mini-facts”:
Weighing it at 1.99 lbs (including barrel, ASA, 9volt battery and regulator) the Invert Mini might be THE Lightest & Tightest electronic marker available.

Outstanding velocity consistency

Break Beam Anti-Chop Eyes Standard

Multi-mode (NXL, PSP, NPPL & Millennium) firing capability with easy “tournament lockout”

Clamping feed-neck

“Cocker” threaded barrel

No hoses to crimp or break

Initial production colors will be polished finish Black, Red or Blue

One year limited warranty standard

MSRP $449.95

Available through your local Retailer in time for Christmas


<img src="http://i9.tinypic.com/2hqa5pg.jpg" border="5">
<img src="http://i9.tinypic.com/4cavakg.jpg" border="5">
<img src="http://i10.tinypic.com/2gvu2w1.jpg" border="5">
<img src="http://i9.tinypic.com/2iuuwm0.jpg" border="5">


Update: 10/22/06
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[etjoyride]

It certainly bears a resembleance(sp?)

[Arstron]

What company is making that? I am not sure if I like it or not....

[evildead420]

wow, thats hot lookin.

[Head knight of Ni]

What company is making that? I am not sure if I like it or not....

Invert the offshoot of Empire. Similar to the dye/proto relationship.

[grEnAlEins]

What company is making that? I am not sure if I like it or not....
Maybe this was what beemer was babeling about... :rofl:

[Arstron]

Maybe this was what beemer was babeling about... :rofl:

So you mean this can make little timmy walk?!?! :dance:

"Invert the offshoot of Empire. Similar to the dye/proto relationship."

I will check that out.

[geekwarrior]

now thats nice.... :eek:


/ curses AGD for not keeping up
//wait, is this what MarkM was talking about!? :eek: :eek:

[d4m4don3]

OOOOH AAAAAH :wow:

and within my budget......Nooo....must resist....must wait for reviews.....



Arghhh!!!! :cuss:

[Pullman]

Hrrrmmm,

Now I know what to replace the Promaster with :D

[warpfeedmod]

No hoses to crimp or break?


Where does the air go from the bottom? Up into the grip?

[bunny5]

No external hoses. apparently the hoses are inside of the gripframe. :spit_take

[rkjunior303]

Invert the offshoot of Empire. Similar to the dye/proto relationship.

calling manike.. calling manike.....

[SummaryJudgement]

That's interesting. Is it some kind of spooler? I think it looks nice Very x-mag/shockerish.....

[Tool-of-death]

That's interesting. Is it some kind of spooler? I think it looks nice Very x-mag/shockerish.....
popit not spool

[behemoth]

Jesus that's ugly.

[BigEvil]

WOW that made me just flash back to last year when I was really ill with the flu. I had sever diarrhea.. and that somehow reminded me of it. I cant quite say why.

DOnt forget your flu shots this year kiddies :)

[SummaryJudgement]

:rofl:

Glad you're back man.........

[mobsterboy]

meh, its what most new overhyped guns are looking like that are trying to compete with the ions size, well, actually it would be the shockers size, that got stolen by the ion

[Tool-of-death]

WOW that made me just flash back to last year when I was really ill with the flu. I had sever diarrhea.. and that somehow reminded me of it. I cant quite say why.

DOnt forget your flu shots this year kiddies :)

That left a lovly image

[manike]

meh, its what most new overhyped guns are looking like that are trying to compete with the ions size, well, actually it would be the shockers size, that got stolen by the ion

Compete?

I camoflaged this gun so I could play with it openly by hiding it INSIDE an Ion body. The Ion body slips right over it, and leaves a bunch of room inside...

[Toll]

Never heard of it. Sounds neat. Too bad it's not the second coming of the emag like I had invisioned.

[iambored]

sweet! finally a marker with no external tubing!!!

[punkncat]

I think its cool as hell. If its as good as the hype it might be worth looking into.

However, a downside I can see is w/o standard design it will be dependant on factory upgrades, such as the reg, possibly the board, can't change the bottomline?

We will see.

[FromTheBack]

I like the look of it besides how big the grip frame looks compared to the rest of the marker. I guess it's just a small it is but something about the frame strikes me oddly.

I really am really curious to see what it looks like on the inside. Manike can you elaborate on that?

Does kinda resemble what a future evolution of mags could of looked like.

[Head knight of Ni]

calling manike.. calling manike.....

IIRC, that's how the "cogniscenti" explained it.

[FromTheBack]

Gas-thru frame for a mag?...sorry keeping this on topic

[CKY_Alliance]

Compete?

I camoflaged this gun so I could play with it openly by hiding it INSIDE an Ion body. The Ion body slips right over it, and leaves a bunch of room inside...

so this is the empire gun? or is this something you PS bunny?

ok so i see it is the new empire gun...interesting...Manike, well anyone who knows, what type of operating system?

i see it has a poppet..is it like the onyx or a timmy?

[Tool-of-death]

it looks funny..... I like it yet at the same time I don't...

I'm not sure if I like the looks of the no hosing.

Also the milling looks..... well plain, boring and ugly. I hoper they do somthing a little diffren for milling before they release it.

[fire1811]

It will be interesting to see what people say about the fore grip. Since everyone complained that the emags was so ugly. This is not much better.

[StygShore]

didnt see this one coming from anywhere....

I kinda like it.. but thats cuz it looks like a mag....

kinda...

mostly...

Styg

[A-Tach-One]

I actually like it, what would you say the angle is on the grip frame?

[mobsterboy]

I actually like it, what would you say the angle is on the grip frame?

20 to 25 degree range probably, so it would be like a 65 to 70,

[wooky]

Yep I would own one, it looks kinda cool.

[Tool-of-death]

I wonder if I could rig it to run on CO2.....

[Beemer]

Outstanding velocity consistency

Well lets see the numbers on this one. Or is it hype? Whats the fps on every ball at 15bps.
Plus minus one would be Outstanding.

[st6212]

What's the copper/brass thing at the front of the ASA?

[pennywise]

I like it. It's practically priced and looks light as hell.

[grEnAlEins]

Well lets see the numbers on this one. Or is it hype? Whats the fps on every ball at 15bps.
Plus minus one would be Outstanding.
Well I was wrong. This is not the gun that beemer was babeling about :spit_take

[doc_Zox]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//mini_Xray.jpg

[MANN]

:rofl: :rofl:
So all the markers have sent their "helpers" to make an ubermarker. I like it.

[grEnAlEins]

internals
:spit_take Hahahahahaha. That was awesome! Just what I needed to start the day! :rofl:

[AGDRetro]

Jesus that's ugly.

Christ himself would agree...

[Pneumagger]

You forgot to add Flava-Flav.


http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//mini_Xray.jpg

[Pneumagger]

Looks to be a spooler, blow forward, or inline poppet. No word on efficiency though :confused:
So the HPR is in the frame,Electronics in the foregrip, and the on off is attached to the grip.

It won't be terribly bigtime for the simple fact that it lacks upgradability. If the HPR, on off, foregrip, and super light milling are unchangeable like that, then all the user has choice over is the feedneck.

Unless it's got something besides weight going for it (i.e. - efficiency, durrability, recoil, etc.) I don't impacting anything except ION sales. Hopefully it's not a LPRless Spoolvalve (shocker-clone).


And it's ulgy IMO.

[Tool-of-death]

Looks to be a spooler, blow forward, or inline poppet. No word on efficiency though :confused:
So the HPR is in the frame,Electronics in the foregrip, and the on off is attached to the grip.

It won't be terribly bigtime for the simple fact that it lacks upgradability. If the HPR, on off, foregrip, and super light milling are unchangeable like that, then all the user has choice over is the feedneck.

Unless it's got something besides weight going for it (i.e. - efficiency, durrability, recoil, etc.) I don't impacting anything except ION sales. Hopefully it's not a LPRless Spoolvalve (shocker-clone).


And it's ulgy IMO.

it's an inline popit

[FromTheBack]

The main thing they were trying to do is make it Small hence the name "Mini" so I am guessing they saved aesthetics for bare minimum body weight for those of you highlighting the look of it.
Honestly it doesn't look that bad considering how much aluminum they had to work with. and it's a pretty innovative design with all the norms out of electronics in grip, external air, aesthetically milled bodies. I think Empire, or whoever made it for Empire (Simon?), did a good job of creating something original, small, and hopefully a killing machine.

[doc_Zox]

the fore grip seems a tad small to stuff a 9volt in there:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//minib.jpg

check out the bore size for the bolt

the red line is the diameter of the rear plug
it falls outside of the body

the yellow line is the available real estate

[Teamslayer76]

Nasty. What kind of hell spawned gun is this. :tard:

[manike]

it's an inline popit

It is NOT an inline poppet in the sense like a conventional poppet gun, or Bob Longs new gun.

It does have a poppet. But it doesn't have a ram or a hammer hitting it... :spit_take

[Pneumagger]

rotational poppet?

Also, I guess alot of guns could probably run off of 6 volts (4AAA) that might be in the foregrip.

The only thing that really worries me is the pricetag. I hope hope they dont pull an SP move and go with 2000 series aluminum. Anything this skimpy better have at least 6000 to keep rigidity and decent tolerences.

[manike]

rotational poppet?

Nope.

It's 6061 high quality aluminium IIRC.

The fore grip holds a single 9Volt batter.

[warbeak2099]

Wow, this seems great. I'm definitely buying one if they really go for $450.

[FromTheBack]

So the bolt is small as hell meaning it probably doesn't have a lot of kick and probably doesn't require a lot of air to move?...that is if it has an LPR of any sorts.

Disclaimer: I am guessing...I am no expert on bolt/air power mechanics.

[Pronby]

Now I know what I'm getting for christmas. :D

Is there any more info about the internals?

[FromTheBack]

Is there any more info about the internals?

Manike is teasing us...making us work for it...OOOhh the Hype!

[Pneumagger]

manike, I'll trade you an emag for this...lol.

Any info about max ROF and efficiency.

[Tool-of-death]

Now I know what I'm getting for christmas. :D

Is there any more info about the internals?

since the AEDES isent coming out any time soon I think I might just pick this one up.

Assuming it's possable to run it on CO2 that is.

[MaD_SaM]

looks better then an ION! I like the price. Ill try to get one once I read all the hype driven buyer reviews.

[SCpoloRicker]

Plus minus one would be Outstanding.

You're being glib. You're being glib, Beemer. You haven't done the research. I have.

[geekwarrior]

You're being glib. You're being glib, Beemer. You haven't done the research. I have.

lol.....did you know people are using glib as a street drug now?

[Piranti]

Going to take a wild stab at how the internals work, basically the trigger solenoid hits the poppet valve not a hammer from the bolt itself. Which would make the internals probably quite similar to a Mag. If I guess properly its a spring return blow forward Poppet valve design. Where the Solenoid releases the air from the poppet valve to blow the bolt forward and a spring returns the bolt to its rest position. In theory it could be quite efficient.

But I am not an Airsmith nor pneumatical Engineer.

[Pneumagger]

is such a thing as a pneumatical engineer

[d4m4don3]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//mini_Xray.jpg
The emag and the cocker had elves......
But not the invert
besides the elves there are trolls, fairys and leprechauns!
This must be an uber agg marker. :tard:

[Piranti]

You forgot Papa Smurf.......

[d4m4don3]

Truly outstanding!!
:rofl:

[Miscue]

Humm... I wonder if the electronics are located in the foregrip... and if so, what's in the grip frame? I always thought that putting electronics in the gun itself was not the best place... but instead it would be better to use a detachable module or something external. I would personally want to put it in a tank cover with a pocket.

Some advantages would be... you can change it on the fly... don't have to get a whole new gun if your electronics fail... the gun frame doesn't have to be built around the electronics... and it's probably easier for aftermarket folks to make new electronic stuff for the marker.

[manike]

Humm... I wonder if the electronics are located in the foregrip... and if so, what's in the grip frame? I always thought that putting electronics in the gun itself was not the best place... but instead it would be better to use a detachable module or something external. I would personally want to put it in a tank cover with a pocket.

Some advantages would be... you can change it on the fly... don't have to get a whole new gun if your electronics fail... the gun frame doesn't have to be built around the electronics... and it's probably easier for aftermarket folks to make new electronic stuff for the marker.

FTW! You got it. Almost exactly. :hail:

http://myspace-449.vo.llnwd.net/01219/94/42/1219332449_l.jpg

What were people saying about it being thick? :confused:

Notice the shape of the grips in the back ground too... :headbang:

The top of the foregip is specially shaped so it is really comfortable to hold, you hand just fits into the well with no gauges or protrusions getting in the way of comfort.

Oh, and another side image to put some more scale to it...

http://myspace-211.vo.llnwd.net/01219/11/22/1219332211_l.jpg

[FromTheBack]

Interchangable Electronics packs.....BRILLIANT!

So it's a further evolution of mag based innovation and technology and put into the mainstream market through a mag-lover that designs for Empire...can't wait for this thing to be out Manike.

[peewee]

Hrrrmmm,

Now I know what to replace the Promaster with :D
Hey was that you at state line last Saturday?? With the blue promaster? I had the lasoya PM.

[edweird]

Simon,

excellent new shooter you built there.... been keeping an eye on it quietly on the other other tinkering site. I want to see some specs on it for sure!

between your gun and colin's I think we have the next gen for sure. Im already commited on getting one of colins (well to be fair ive been commited and in line since 03 IAO for a full production gun from colin) but your new shooter is definatly looking to round out my new stable of guns

[iambored]

what's in the foregrip?
board, batteries, what?

[Pullman]

Hey was that you at state line last Saturday?? With the blue promaster? I had the lasoya PM.


Nope,

I was in Moscow, Idaho last weekend. I've never actually been to Stateline. If I wanna get hosed down I normally go to the BK field (in Lewiston) cause it's only 40 minutes away. :D

[hitech]

Can't comment on anything but the looks (as we don't know anything else about it), but I like the way it looks. Then again, I like the look of the battery pack on an eMag!

I does look like Simon had a hand in the design, milling kinda like the xMag...

:cheers:

[Cow hunter]

ehh looks alot like a shocker....

[Tool-of-death]

ehh looks alot like a shocker....

A better shocker.

[doc_Zox]

so a golf ball is 1.68 inches in diameter and a 9 volt is ~1x2 inches
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//mini.jpg

[Tool-of-death]

I still wanna know whatthe effeciency is compaired to the aedes...

[PsychoBaller]

WOW that made me just flash back to last year when I was really ill with the flu. I had sever diarrhea.. and that somehow reminded me of it. I cant quite say why.

DOnt forget your flu shots this year kiddies :)



Hah, that made me laugh aloud.




And I concur with a majority of replies in this thread - Nasty looking marker, as in disgusting. May be small, may be light, but just blech.



-baller

[Tool-of-death]

Think of it like this fellas... its really the only other single-tubed marker to compete with the Ion.

The two main high-end markers during the 90's were the Cocker and the Mag. And for the last decade, everyones been making Cocker/Spyder look-alikes.

SP was smart, and went a different route. Making a Mag look-alike. Theyve capitolized on the fact that NOBODY else was doing it. And they did it cheap, with the Ion.

Now, NPS is joining the game. Smart move. The only thing that sucks about it is NPS has to pay SP for their electro IP. So SP makes money off every sale of both markers.

Food for thought.

Welcome to the wonderfull world of marketing :cheers:

However I don't think this infringes on anything to do with SP. But then again I don't know the details of the SP pantent.

[doc_Zox]

if it has a battery & an on/off switch and it shoots paintballs

it infringes SP patent

[Vendetta]

I love the design. Finally something that doesn't look like it was inspired by a tattoo parlor, or American Chopper.

[geekwarrior]

I love the design. Finally something that doesn't look like it was inspired by a tattoo parlor, or American Chopper.

qft

[Triangle]

Think of it like this fellas... its really the only other single-tubed marker to compete with the Ion.

The two main high-end markers during the 90's were the Cocker and the Mag. And for the last decade, everyones been making Cocker/Spyder look-alikes.

SP was smart, and went a different route. Making a Mag look-alike. Theyve capitolized on the fact that NOBODY else was doing it. And they did it cheap, with the Ion.

Now, NPS is joining the game. Smart move. The only thing that sucks about it is NPS has to pay SP for their electro IP. So SP makes money off every sale of both markers.

Food for thought.


And you know what?
That's life.
It happens in every other industry and I can't see why everyone is still obsessing over how Evil Smart Parts is.
Let it go already, nothing has changed.
We're all stilling over priced markers that shoot faster than we can pull the trigger.
Life goes on.

[yingyang]

Wheres the vavle!

[Miscue]

Interchangable Electronics packs.....BRILLIANT!

So it's a further evolution of mag based innovation and technology and put into the mainstream market through a mag-lover that designs for Empire...can't wait for this thing to be out Manike.

Eh... it's not that brilliant. :)

I'm surprised that it took so long... or I might be unaware of an older marker that does that.

[iambored]

So if the electronics are in the foregrip which explains the button( :confused: ) on the front of it so does it like just have a connection plate so you pop one off and put a different one on?

[Miscue]

I don't like the name "Mini." Maybe something like... "The Violator," or... "The Intruder," or... "The Penetrator." Those are good names. Should run it by marketing... see what they think.

[gibby]

I don't like the name "Mini." Maybe something like... "The Violator," or... "The Intruder," or... "The Penetrator." Those are good names. Should run it by marketing... see what they think.

"The Rapist?" :D

[Miscue]

"The Rapist?" :D

Nah... not subtle enough. "The Offender" is another good one.

[SCpoloRicker]

I don't like the name "Mini." Maybe something like... "The Violator," or... "The Intruder," or... "The Penetrator." Those are good names. Should run it by marketing... see what they think.

Bzzzt. ;)

More like, "Lets give it a little milling and call it Private Label!"

/marketing guy

[Head knight of Ni]

The new "deviant", or you could call it the Kobe.

I kinda like the gun, but I prefer the aedes right now.

[Tool-of-death]

The ades because colin said it might be able to run CO2.

[nippinout]

Nah... not subtle enough. "The Offender" is another good one.


Therapist.

http://members.cox.net/recockulous/Sean_20Connery.jpg

[G Squat]

More than an Emag, I think it resembles an electric Epic. I'm so so on'em right now but I'd like to fiddle with one to see what I really think. I'm fine with my minion right now but cant wait til I get a new mag. BTW Tool, chill about the CO2. This is 2006... switch to Nitro. No more frosted flakes out the barrel.

[mclaggan123]

it looks like a bent ULE body. can empire rip off anymore companys or can they comeup with something original. that has emag written all over it.

[Miscue]

Ooh... I got it! "The Priest"

[CKY_Alliance]

it looks like a bent ULE body. can empire rip off anymore companys or can they comeup with something original. that has emag written all over it.





So they ripped off a tube...hmm didnt relize AGD was the creater of the almighty TUBE :ninja:

Everything isnt about AGD, sorry, and if they did rip the look of the e-mag off....(which well they didnt) then atleast they are doing something progressive with it.

[RavishingEddie]

So they ripped off a tube...hmm didnt relize AGD was the creater of the almighty TUBE :ninja:

Everything isnt about AGD, sorry, and if they did rip the look of the e-mag off....(which well they didnt) then atleast they are doing something progressive with it.


The EMag still owns all :argh:

[Tool-of-death]

More than an Emag, I think it resembles an electric Epic. I'm so so on'em right now but I'd like to fiddle with one to see what I really think. I'm fine with my minion right now but cant wait til I get a new mag. BTW Tool, chill about the CO2. This is 2006... switch to Nitro. No more frosted flakes out the barrel.

I would in a heart beat EXCEPT!!!

$0.50-1.00 for a CO2 fill
or $15 for a HPA fill.

That is the price here in bum ****ed egypt, and besides.......I like forsted flakes....

[RavishingEddie]

I would in a heart beat EXCEPT!!!

$0.50-1.00 for a CO2 fill
or $15 for a HPA fill.

That is the price here in bum ****ed egypt, and besides.......I like forsted flakes....

Wow man that is really weird. Here in Cali Co2 is more expensive. :confused:

[CKY_Alliance]

Wow man that is really weird. Here in Cali Co2 is more expensive. :confused:
CO2 is almost always more expensive because they cant make it like they can compressed air, co2 u have to buy or rent tanks and pay to have them filled, compressed air you can make a one time purchase of a compressor and make air...they prolly charge 15 dollars for all day air (still pricey) and dont offer co2 all day and chrge by the fill.

[Tool-of-death]

CO2 is almost always more expensive because they cant make it like they can compressed air, co2 u have to buy or rent tanks and pay to have them filled, compressed air you can make a one time purchase of a compressor and make air...they prolly charge 15 dollars for all day air (still pricey) and dont offer co2 all day and chrge by the fill.

outlaw only, the neaest field is a good 3 hour drive away.

thats 15$ PER fill of HPA

I get CO2 1$ per lb + tax (I pay bout 23$ for 20lbs of CO2)

it costs $78 to get A 450 CuFt air tank filled to 4500 PSI not to mention the 9$ a month rental fee.

[RoadDawg]

Looks pretty.... ugly. I vote for the name of... "Sinner"

*you're not so smart Mr Trebek w/o the cards* :nono:

[Marroonblooded]

Think of it like this fellas... its really the only other single-tubed marker to compete with the Ion.

The two main high-end markers during the 90's were the Cocker and the Mag. And for the last decade, everyones been making Cocker/Spyder look-alikes.

SP was smart, and went a different route. Making a Mag look-alike. Theyve capitolized on the fact that NOBODY else was doing it. And they did it cheap, with the Ion.

Now, NPS is joining the game. Smart move. The only thing that sucks about it is NPS has to pay SP for their electro IP. So SP makes money off every sale of both markers.

Food for thought.

Same thing with the cummins diesel engine in Dodges (Ford owns cummins)

But I like it... beauty through simplicity is the way to my heart, prob.ly one of my favorite designs but i have always loved automags and regardless of who copied or didnt copy, this looks very simular to one in deed... i would probably have to think before I traded my classic automag for it... oh wait... no i wouldnt

and i think ions look gay with all those ridges on them and crap... ya... = dumb, this gun looks way hotter than any ion i've ever seen (really not saying too too much... but whatev)

cheers,
:bounce:

[warbeak2099]

I love how everyone says it's a emag knock off. Oh my god, Chevy makes pickup trucks therefore they must be copying Ford! First of all, GM is better than Ford. SECOND OF ALL, AGD does not have a patent on single tube guns. AGD wasnt even the first to make single tube. So this is obviously a Nelson clone...

[Marroonblooded]

I love how everyone says it's a emag knock off. Oh my god, Chevy makes pickup trucks therefore they must be copying Ford! First of all, GM is better than Ford. SECOND OF ALL, AGD does not have a patent on single tube guns. AGD wasnt even the first to make single tube. So this is obviously a Nelson clone...

I kinda hope that was rip on me... :bounce: , cuz I never said anything about it being an automag rip... but there are definitely similarities (namely kinda similar to the emag but better) and if you dont see that then possibly you need some glasses... and I never mentioned any preference to any truck... merely stated that for every dodge diesel (the Cummins, I anticipate more diesels in their near future) ford makes a buck- in reference to the smart parts "scandal" :rofl:

and you can love all the chevys in the world, that will not bother me


Back to subject: I usually don't look at guns and say "I'm going to get that" but this one makes me reconsider that philosophy.

I agree

Oh and another name for the later remodels = the molester

[SpecialBlend2786]

I love how everyone says it's a emag knock off. Oh my god, Chevy makes pickup trucks therefore they must be copying Ford! First of all, GM is better than Ford. SECOND OF ALL, AGD does not have a patent on single tube guns. AGD wasnt even the first to make single tube. So this is obviously a Nelson clone...

Single tubes have been around forever sure, but this is only the second production marker which houses the battery in the foregrip. The first one being the emag.

Anyway, I like it.

[SpecialBlend2786]

Interestingly, the E-mag had the hump on the back of the trigger frame too. It was considered 'uncool'. The Timmy came out with the clam-shell and a back hump, and it was a big hit!

For years, the E-mags 'foregrip' has been a big complaint. It would be ironic if the foregrip on this marker is a big hit too. I guess it would prove that the idea itself isnt uncool, just who it is that markets it.

Food for thought.

Good point. I actually remember SEARCHING for a emag with the hump when I was getting mine. Comfortable as hell for big hands.

I think the main complaint of the emag battery pack was the weight though, which was much more than a simple 9 volt.

[Triangle]

Thanks Derek for your business acumen. Now that youve said so, I guess I can let it go :rolleyes:


Oh because Smart Parts is going to smack you down too?
Oh noes everyone!! WATCH OUT.

[Lohman446]

I don't like the name "Mini." Maybe something like... "The Violator," or... "The Intruder," or... "The Penetrator." Those are good names. Should run it by marketing... see what they think.


I don't know 'Cue. I'm slightly concerned that when someone says something is small you think along lines like that.

/mmm.. second thought
//I don't really care
///At all

[geekwarrior]

I don't know 'Cue. I'm slightly concerned that when someone says something is small you think along lines like that.

/mmm.. second thought
//I don't really care
///At all


rofl! nice

[SpitFire1299]

I think its a nice gun.. and a good inovation. AGD's battery pack idea was taken in a way, but now everyone will call your emag an invert instead of a shocker.

[damageINC]

I think it looks pretty sleek, personally. As with all things sports oriented, however, I tend to shy away from anything eletronic. There's the whole issue with shock from hitting stuff and dropping it, water and the elements, or just shoddy soldering on the boards. I was wondering more about ease of maintaince and durability....can anyone involved with this speak to that end? Making it that small and light I'd think the sidewalls would be so thin that hitting the deck or sliding into a bunker would dent the damned thing.

I say they name the thing the little richard....at least the shortened moniker (aka timmy's) would be something people wouldn't forget about. :P

[tribalman]

And the difference Was?
The Emag was heavy, the Timmy was not.
The hump on the emag was gigantic, and the timmy's was not.

If the timmy sold better than the Emag, I bet they were doing something correct.

Hey! how about you add a hump to a Chimera, or an I frame, and you can tell everyone how original you are!

Or maybe you'd like to go ripping off custom products again.

hrm....gets emag, and freestyle, and clamshelled timmy.
the freestyle has the hump also, its slight smaller, but the whole frame is slightly smaller than the emag. like special blend says, it's more comforable. my hands aren't big but i'd rather have something bigger to grip than a small frame and reg. i like the emag lowers and the battery pack. the only thing (too me) that comes close to the emag in comfort is my tac-one with bicycle grip. on all 3 frames the hump is about the same size.


and in the discussion of the mini. i think it looks ok. if the front grip feels ok and will fit an emag battery, i just my try to fit one onto the emag. the only thing i don't like is how the body slims at the midpoint between the back and the feedneck. infact, i don't like it on the freestyle either. it's not as big on the freestyle, but i still don't like it.

[warbeak2099]

Lol, the foregrip is way smaller than the one on an Emag. You'll never fit an Emag batt in there.

[superfreakmabsta]

ok, so who makes this thing, and do they honestly expect to sell this gun for around 500. that seems a bit cheap.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

ok, so who makes this thing, and do they honestly expect to sell this gun for around 500. that seems a bit cheap.

Empire, or NPS.

They've got the distribution and scale to make a profit at that price, I guess.

[warbeak2099]

ok, so who makes this thing, and do they honestly expect to sell this gun for around 500. that seems a bit cheap.

Lol, if it's cheap then people will buy it. I'd expect it to go like hotcakes for under $500. Why wouldn't NPS?

[Doobie]

I kinda think with the right marketing, and if they put it in the right teams hands, it could be a winner. Everyone wants smaller, lighter, faster right? It's smaller, and seems lighter, and with the caps in most major tournys it's AS fast as...so why woudn't it do well?
Way to go Manike! :bounce:

[tacq]

were did you get the pics

[warbeak2099]

If it has Angel threaded feedneck... I just don't know if I'll ever stop wetting myself. Please have Angel feedneck threads, please please please!

[StygShore]

huh? why is an angel threaded feedneck so important?


Styg

[manike]

If it has Angel threaded feedneck... I just don't know if I'll ever stop wetting myself. Please have Angel feedneck threads, please please please!

Sorry. It has SP/ICD threaded feednecks. It's close to Angel but not quite the same. 'Some' Angel feednecks may thread in, though it is not recommended.

[StygShore]

Rumor has it some peopel threw some paint out of these over the weekend... whats the scoop?


Hows it work, whats it do, will it slice bread?


Styg


hmmm... wait its an electro... it does the same all the other electros do.. just in a different shell...


Well, hows the New/old valve work?

[warbeak2099]

huh? why is an angel threaded feedneck so important?


Styg

Because I'd want to put my RPG warp adapter on it so I can run my Qloader into a 90* warp elbow instead of the awkward Qloader elbow.

But alas, according to Manike that cannot be... I'm still going to buy this gun lol.

[SpecialBlend2786]

I'm just back to say that I like it. Again.

[punkncat]

I'm just back to say that I like it. Again.


I will second that. I look forward to seeing and very possibly owning one. This is the first thing I have considered purchasing new in a long time. I am going to wait until after the initial wave and see how they perform first though.

[warbeak2099]

I've decided this will be my reward for getting off of mandatory PT. Hey now, I didn't know we were supposed to do curl ups... I thought we had to do as many SIT UPS as we could in 2 minutes. But anyhoo, next PFA if I pass, this is my prize lol.

[don miguel]

I got to play around with my friend's (AO:who am i?) new custom annod emag. he got it off ebay for 500$. Everything looked awesome, but I noticed the battery pack was very wobbly and I didn't expect that. Are they usually like that? he had the screw tightened up all the way and everything. Otherwise the gun was awesome! peace.

-don miguel :dance:

[fire1811]

I got to play around with my friend's (AO:who am i?) new custom annod emag. he got it off ebay for 500$. Everything looked awesome, but I noticed the battery pack was very wobbly and I didn't expect that. Are they usually like that? he had the screw tightened up all the way and everything. Otherwise the gun was awesome! peace.

-don miguel :dance:

Take a chunk of old bolt bumper and put it slide it between the gun and the pack.

[CKY_Alliance]

I got to play around with my friend's (AO:who am i?) new custom annod emag. he got it off ebay for 500$. Everything looked awesome, but I noticed the battery pack was very wobbly and I didn't expect that. Are they usually like that? he had the screw tightened up all the way and everything. Otherwise the gun was awesome! peace.

-don miguel :dance:

umm completely wrong thread?

so any word on how it opperates? Im assuming an inline popet like the onyx?

[warbeak2099]

onyx? can i get a link to that plz?

[CKY_Alliance]

onyx? can i get a link to that plz?

You might know it as the mummy..
I dont know if that thread says it but it has since been released, they where only selling limtied numbers at events and i dont know if retailer have them yet..but i held one at MAO..and omy is it light and comfy..like a timmy and matrix combined...but the cut the wiegh in half..it riddic..didnt get to see it shoot but theres a vid..its a nice gun and works prety much like a tippman...http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1737116


Oh that thread says those might be prototype pics.but they are not that is what the final product looks like and its just a secksi in person.

[warbeak2099]

Wow that's pretty sweet. Really expensive though. The Mini seems like a great gun also, and it's half the price.

[RoadDawg]

ok, so who makes this thing, and do they honestly expect to sell this gun for around 500. that seems a bit cheap.

It's called overseas manufacturing.

[warbeak2099]

It's called overseas manufacturing.

It's also called NPS is a huge company and can mass manufactor crap for pennies. But yea, overseas too.

Still, if the gun shoots well I'm buying one.

[RoadDawg]

It's also called NPS is a huge company and can mass manufactor crap for pennies. But yea, overseas too.

Still, if the gun shoots well I'm buying one.

It doesn't matter if the company is big or not. It's all location of manufacturing. It is a simple fact that most things are cheaper to make overseas then in the U.S.

[Lenny]

I got to play around with my friend's (AO:who am i?) new custom annod emag. he got it off ebay for 500$. Everything looked awesome, but I noticed the battery pack was very wobbly and I didn't expect that. Are they usually like that? he had the screw tightened up all the way and everything. Otherwise the gun was awesome! peace.

-don miguel :dance:
"My friend this..." and "My friend that..."

How on earth did you get so many friends? And why do they seem to have every gun in the world? And why eBay? Are there no local pro shops? Do they not use any B/S/T forums?

[Lohman446]

It doesn't matter if the company is big or not. It's all location of manufacturing. It is a simple fact that most things are cheaper to make overseas then in the U.S.

I buy firearms made in the US that cost less than $500 - why is that cheap for a paintball marker? We have simply accepted higher prices than we should have.

[Lohman446]

Im in the market for a quality new, US made, sub-$500 retail firearm. Which one are you referring to, I might be interested.

Nice :) New England Firearms make several under that price. The Ruger 10/22 is well below (not sure if either are US built or European). Mossberg and Remington both have several below that number.

[Arstron]

I buy firearms made in the US that cost less than $500 - why is that cheap for a paintball marker? We have simply accepted higher prices than we should have.

I buy a $900 lawn mower every 4-5 years, that's cheaper then a number of paintball guns and a lawn mower takes a lot more to build. :dance:

[doc_Zox]

heres an interesting mini concept

imagine a speedball series wherein
the players were required to install tournament provided electronic packs

[manike]

heres an interesting mini concept

imagine a speedball series wherein
the players were required to install tournament provided electronic packs

Yep, that would be very easy to do, as would having one set up for PSP play, one set up for NPPL, one for NXL, one for rec play etc.

Then you can simply swap foregrips rather than have to go through and adjust all your settings...

[Lohman446]

Id prefer a handgun. Any suggestions?



Sorry, I didnt answer your previous question.

The equivalent of your 10/22 rifle in the paintball world would be a CCI Phantom, which can be purchased for well under $500 retail. Nearly half that estimate.

Rifles, and their design, date as far back as the 1400's, and became more widely used in the mid 1800's. Handguns have a history that dates back to the 18th century. Machine guns designs date back to the mid-1800's as well.

Point being, the design and manufacture of nearly every design style of firearm has at least a 200 year head start, some more.

The volume at which these firearms have been made just over the last 200 years allows them to be sold cheaper. Besides the obvious consumer base that firearms have, they are also purchased in large part by governments around the world.

The same cannot be said for paintball markers.

You can be dense when you want to, and I know you are far smarter than that. I was throwing out a comparison, a firearm is similiar in a lot of ways to a paintball marker. If anything one could have considered a tolerance issue from an air system over a firearm, but you had to go into something rather meaningless. I'm not debating that $500 is a comparatively good price for a paintball marker, but to those who say "wow, how do they get this so cheap?" are ignoring some pretty obvious points. Is it cheaper than we are used to? Yeh. Is it relatively cheap compared to other things of comparable size, materials and complexity that are manufactured? Not at all. Now, can we easily justify the prices? Yeh, niche marketting (even in the "big boy" paintball manufacturers) for instance. But it does not have to be that expensive to manufacture a paintball marker.

[RoadDawg]

I buy firearms made in the US that cost less than $500 - why is that cheap for a paintball marker? We have simply accepted higher prices than we should have.

Why do you see plants closing down and moving to Mexico? Cheaper labor to do the same job. Why pay $20/hour when you can pay $10/hour (or less)? Here is a challenge for you. Go to ANY Disney company retail store and find something that is made in the U.S. In the many times I've tried, I've only found a handful of items. Reason being it costs more for labor here in the US, then say China.

For your firearm example: There is more of a market for firearms then paintball. The larger the market, the lower the costs can go. Any basic Economics class will teach you that.

Also depending on the style you go with, a firearm (rifle/handgun) aren't all that complicated. While pball markers aren't exactly tough either, the market isn't as large plus everyone is all about C'N'C milling, stuff you don't see on many rifles/handguns and if you do, the price is higher.

Another example is look at a basic motorcycle vs a OC Choppers bike. It is cheaper to make more then one. Example being it is cheaper (per item) to make 1000 then it is to make 100 items. Rogue could tell you first hand about this.

[Lohman446]

Why do you see plants closing down and moving to Mexico? Cheaper labor to do the same job. Why pay $20/hour when you can pay $10/hour (or less)? Here is a challenge for you. Go to ANY Disney company retail store and find something that is made in the U.S. In the many times I've tried, I've only found a handful of items. Reason being it costs more for labor here in the US, then say China.

For your firearm example: There is more of a market for firearms then paintball. The larger the market, the lower the costs can go. Any basic Economics class will teach you that.

Also depending on the style you go with, a firearm (rifle/handgun) aren't all that complicated. While pball markers aren't exactly tough either, the market isn't as large plus everyone is all about C'N'C milling, stuff you don't see on many rifles/handguns and if you do, the price is higher.

Another example is look at a basic motorcycle vs a OC Choppers bike. It is cheaper to make more then one. Example being it is cheaper (per item) to make 1000 then it is to make 100 items. Rogue could tell you first hand about this.


Oh.. niche marketing that I referred to. Any basic economic class could have taught you what I was referring to without having to dumb it down to the "its cheaper to build 1000 than it is one". I still maintain that $500 for something the size and complexity of a paintball marker is not cheap.

[Lohman446]

Id prefer a handgun. Any suggestions?

Ruger makes several

[Lohman446]

Density has little to do with it. The differences between a real firearm and paintball marker have a greater impact on production cost and manufacturing capabilities than any similarities. That was the point of my post, which you missed.
.

I missed it. I did not address it with


Is it relatively cheap compared to other things of comparable size, materials and complexity that are manufactured? Not at all.

Could have sworn I addressed it.

[Lohman446]

Density has little to do with it. The differences between a real firearm and paintball marker have a greater impact on production cost and manufacturing capabilities than any similarities. That was the point of my post, which you missed.

There are plenty of paintball markers cheaper than $500, as there are plenty of firearms more expensive than $500. Both have a high-end to their market, which employ the best production practices available, and cost more than the lowest.


So you are implying that todays "high end" markers use a substantially different method of production than low end?

[Tool-of-death]

When did the disscusion of the 07 E-mag turn into an economics class :confused:

I come to paintball forums to read the same thing 50 times over and over again, not to learn stuff JEEZE :nono:

[warbeak2099]

Yea, anyone have new info on this? Invert's site is in limbo...

[Lohman446]

Im not implying it, I am being very direct about it. Let me give you examples from 3 of the most common low-end markers: Tippmann, Spyder, and Ion.

There is a huge difference between casting a part, and machining it. Both in cost and quality. Tippmanns are cast, and their cost is evident of this. Companies will only make molds for casting if they have the sales volume to justify it. The cost of the molds are very expensive.

Certain grades of aluminum cannot be cast, others are poor at being machined. Typically, higher grades of aluminum(and costlier) are machinable, not castable. Adding to the cost of a machined product. Those lower grades of aluminum that are cast, are also poor at being anodized. Which is why you dont see 'fancy' anodized Tippmans.

Ion bodies are also a good example of this too. Ion bodies are molded plastic, and are considerably cheaper than their machined aluminum counterparts. This is the reason why a standard Ion is $179, and the SP PL Ions with aluminum bodies are $400+. This is also why Tippmann has come out with their new plastic marker.

As RoadDawg stated, overseas manufacturing and assembly also effects cost. This is why Spyders are so cheap.

Also, intricate parts or fancy milling that require a 4 axis machine will be costlier than a 2/3 axis design. 2/3 axis machines are fairly common, whereas 4 axis(and above) are not due to high capital investment. High end markers use this sort of machining, low-end do not.

So, there are considerable differences between high and low-end. From materials, manufacturing processes and methods, and labor.

I'll give you a noticeable difference. But there is little doubt SP makes a profit at $179. I just don't buy that there is $300 worth of milling, materials, and anno (anno done in bulk is not as expensive as paintball seems to think it is) in the Shocker more than the Ion.

[Tool-of-death]

I'll give you a noticeable difference. But there is little doubt SP makes a profit at $179. I just don't buy that there is $300 worth of milling, materials, and anno (anno done in bulk is not as expensive as paintball seems to think it is) in the Shocker more than the Ion.

There are diffrences between the ion and the shocker other than the milling and anno.

[Lohman446]

There are diffrences between the ion and the shocker other than the milling and anno.

That cost anymore to produce?

[warbeak2099]

That cost anymore to produce?

No I really don't think the Shocker costs $500 more than the Ion to produce.

But anyways... BACK TO TOPIC. HAS ANYONE ANYTHING TO ADD ABOUT THE MINI?

[Tool-of-death]

That cost anymore to produce?

Yeah considering they like you said erlier, mill the gun, the anno it, they use the maxflow reg rather than the ion POS, they use alumiinum (which like you said erlier costs more than plastic) they put a good feed neck on it ect ect ect

and really it only costs them probubly about 200-300$ per shocker, then they sell it to their distributars for 450$ then they sell it to the consumer for 600$.

Your preching A lot of stuff about marketing yet me, a 15 year old with no life and has never taken an economics class in his life could tell you why the shocker costs more.

[warbeak2099]

Yeah considering they like you said erlier, mill the gun, the anno it, they use the maxflow reg rather than the ion POS, they use alumiinum (which like you said erlier costs more than plastic) they put a good feed neck on it ect ect ect

and really it only costs them probubly about 200-300$ per shocker, then they sell it to their distributars for 450$ then they sell it to the consumer for 600$.

Your preching A lot of stuff about marketing yet me, a 15 year old with no life and has never taken an economics class in his life could tell you why the shocker costs more.

Those things cost more, but at a mass production level, certainly not $500 more.

[RoadDawg]

Those things cost more, but at a mass production level, certainly not $500 more.

Unless you add in the designer's cut, the millers cut, the anno'er's cut, the marketing guy's cut, the engineer who designs the box's cut, the workers who package the item's cut, the security guy's cut, and shipping to distributiors cut etc. It all adds up awful fast.

While I will agree that a shocker certainly isn't worth the price tag, the economics guy who is responsible for the price obviously has a different opinion because he is getting what he is asking for it. So his supply and demand are at their equilibrium. If people weren't buying it, the prices would go down but the fact is people are buying it so they are going to maximize their profits by charging more until fewer are sold.

These numbers aren't picked randomly they are selected through the research.

[Lohman446]

with no life and has never taken an economics class in his life could tell you why the shocker costs more.

Your an idiot if you think its that simple. :p

[warbeak2099]

Unless you add in the designer's cut, the millers cut, the anno'er's cut, the marketing guy's cut, the engineer who designs the box's cut, the workers who package the item's cut, the security guy's cut, and shipping to distributiors cut etc. It all adds up awful fast.

While I will agree that a shocker certainly isn't worth the price tag, the economics guy who is responsible for the price obviously has a different opinion because he is getting what he is asking for it. So his supply and demand are at their equilibrium. If people weren't buying it, the prices would go down but the fact is people are buying it so they are going to maximize their profits by charging more until fewer are sold.

These numbers aren't picked randomly they are selected through the research.

Wow you're really missing something here. All of those costs do not add up to the difference per gun. Because SP mass produces their products, each unit costs very little to produce. As Lohman said, the bigger the batch, the less $$ for anno and stuff. You're also missing the fact that Ions require the same added costs. So again, why the $500 difference?

[warbeak2099]

"the designer's cut, the millers cut, the anno'er's cut, the marketing guy's cut, the engineer who designs the box's cut, the workers who package the item's cut, the security guy's cut, and shipping to distributiors cut etc."

I see, so the Ion does not require any of that...

[SCpoloRicker]

Your an idiot

I lol'd.

/I get your point
//but still

[Majinebz]

I'd buy it, when do they release it for sales? Any projected date? Sorry if its been posted already but theres too much reading and I have been writing a resume for the last 3 hours.... ughh EBZ

[geekwarrior]

I'd buy it, when do they release it for sales? Any projected date? Sorry if its been posted already but theres too much reading and I have been writing a resume for the last 3 hours.... ughh EBZ

Christmas I think they said, around $500. I'm hoping to see it at the OC fairgrounds on the 21st

[tacq]

who is making this gun is it AGD or some other brand and any new news on the mini

[mobsterboy]

Ah hah, there you go with your logic again.
It's only ok to steal if you're doing it, Rogue.

derek, hey heres an idea. Dont be an asshat. You got beef with rogue? Grind it and have a cookout all up in your grill. Theres this box in the upper right hand corner of the page, its got a link "Private Messages", learn to use them. Because for some odd reason you seem to have this vendetta against rogue, but i dont see you with a vendetta against the rest of the world? I mean, do you really think product innovation has gone this far this long without someone copying someone elses work, someone borrowing someones ideas, someone hijacking someone elses work?

Or better idea, just go get banned again if you are going to be beligerant

[warbeak2099]

Those arent the only factors. I listed factors in addition to those that werent listed by RoadDawg. You asked why the $500 difference, I answered.

I just don't see it being a $500 difference. The Shocker is overpriced considering what it probably costs to make one. I can't see why the Shocker isn't more like $450-500. It's current pricetag is ridiculous since you can get way better guns for less money. For example, this Mini seems like it will be a superior gun if it can do everything they're saying it can. Hopefully it will.

Tacq, are you serious? "who is making this gun is it AGD or some other brand and any new news on the mini". Please read the first post in this thread. I'm not going to answer that question nor should anyone else. To just jump to the last page without reading the first page or even first post... just go back and read.

[kruger]

I am probably going to regret jumping into this conversation, but here goes...

The cost of manufacturing a paintball marker, or anything is pretty much irrelevant. It is what the market is willing to pay for these items. The "gotta have " factor is what keeps these markers way overpriced. Marketing creates an image and to most yourg players, Image is everything. They may not be able to play paintball, but they are going to look the part to all their friends. The markers today all pretty much shoot the same. They will all shoot 300fps, and most will have a rate of 15bps or better. Now, if the objective was to only shoot the paintballs, then there would be no difference from one marker to another. But, we all know that that is not the case. The objective is Image. At least from the manufacturer's point of view. The look that you present to other players is what most, not all, of the younger players are looking for. And the younger demigraphic is exactly where all the marketing is aimed. So, this year, marker "X" is the gotta have gun. Get it while its hot kiddies, dont want to have last years gun in your hand. Does it cost 1100 bucks to make? Nope, but that is what you are going to have to pay, if you want to have that "Image".

And, you tell me, how is the Ego any better than an Impulse? In today's paintball world both shoot fast enough, both shoot the same distance. The Impulse is a bigger gun, and more difficult to manufacture, the Ego is lighter and probably a bit easier. Better, more availible tech to mill the markers. So, how is an Ego 1100 and an Impulse only 200 to 300 used? Marketing.
That is major difference.

[mr. right-wing]

:D I like it, but you know what its missing...an X-Valve :D

[warbeak2099]

I dont either. But that doesnt mean it isnt there.

Aside from the manufacturing differences, one must take into account all the other business expenses.

Consider this, a pair of Air Jordan's ran $150+. We both know the actual cost of manufacuring wasnt $150. They were made in China, and from some accounts didnt cost more than $5 in materials to make.

But to pay Michael Jordan to put his name on them cost multi-millions. And his name is what sold those shoes.

Whats my point? Well, there are quite a few sponsored Pro teams that shoot the Shocker. And that cost is factored into the price of the Shocker. Advertising & Marketing...it isnt free :spit_take

No that's not what I meant. I mean, they advertise and do promos for the Ion as well. As long as you're with me on the fact that the gun is definitely not worth $500 more than an Ion, that's what I was saying. In fact, I'd rather shoot an Ion...

mr. right-wing... gar! Why must you go there! It's nothing like a mag!!!

[mr. right-wing]

No that's not what I meant. I mean, they advertise and do promos for the Ion as well. As long as you're with me on the fact that the gun is definitely not worth $500 more than an Ion, that's what I was saying. In fact, I'd rather shoot an Ion...

mr. right-wing... gar! Why must you go there! It's nothing like a mag!!!


No, but its a step in the right direction :D

[warbeak2099]

No, but its a step in the right direction :D

For what? It's a completely new kind of gun. It's not a step in any direction, it's brand new. It isn't building on any existing platform. It is a new platform.

[warbeak2099]

With the volume that they're selling, it more than makes up for those costs. I just don't believe that it's within reason.

[warbeak2099]

I assure you they sell more Ions than Shockers.

I agree.

[Lohman446]

:rolleyes: Yeh, its paintball manufacturers are all so altruistic. Its all about making just enough money. Its nothing about maximizing profits through whatever way necessary

[Majinebz]

Well, most companies are starting to ship their designs over to asia and have them milled. dirt cheap and fairly good quality. I think even dye has started having their guns milled in asia. Its all sent back to USA, they slap an anno on it and piece it together here. That way they can say, "made in the good old USA". So if the DM (whatever) is milled in asia for pennies and then sent back to USA after some import/export fees. They anno it and slap the parts in it, and sell it for the same price they where when they were made in America. So they make 400 or so more dollars per marker sale because of outsourcing jobs to asian milling factories. :mad: AND not to mention taking jobs away from the american public.

So if the guns gonna be milled in asia, it better have that cheap A$$ Thai whore smell and one night stand price with it. which was around 500 BHT last I was there. :headbang: hehehe

I also think the hype has to do with the price as stated above. Which is kinda sad. Like where does SP have their markers made now? Kingman? Dye? etc... etc... its all going to outsourcing and your still paying for a hyped AMERICAN claimed made and priced item, that really cost the company a small fraction of what they charge..

[astroboy]

it's called supply and demand if people stopped paying $1200 for a gun then the prices would fall but those flag ship guns are still selling well because for whatever reason a lot of people don't mind paying that price...

[manike]

Well it would be great to get this back on topic... so here's some more images to distract you... :rofl:

OK, for all of those wondering just how big the foregrip is and how it all works...

http://myspace-084.vo.llnwd.net/01280/48/01/1280901084_l.jpg

http://myspace-981.vo.llnwd.net/01280/18/91/1280901981_l.jpg

http://myspace-179.vo.llnwd.net/01280/97/13/1280903179_l.jpg

See... the foregrip is 'mini', just big enough to house a 9V and a board turned sideways. :D So if the foregrip is that small... puts the rest of the gun to scale huh?

Can't wait to see the faces of those of you that come and shoot it at Commanders Cup. :D :tup:

[kruger]

You know, I thought that I had just about all the markers that I could stand. But, I think that I have just enough room for one more.......... :cool:

When this thread started, and the pics were posted, I just liked the "look" of this marker. And the price is very reasonable, in my opinion. Mark another one "sold"

[warbeak2099]

When and where is CC?

[$tevo]

im kind of liking it.. it doesnt seem to bad. but i would wait to buy until there are some reviews on it

[the electrician]

thanks for posting the pics manike, and getting this back on track.

as with all new stuff, I can't wait to take one apart :)

[CKY_Alliance]

Well it would be great to get this back on topic... so here's some more images to distract you... :rofl:

OK, for all of those wondering just how big the foregrip is and how it all works...

http://myspace-084.vo.llnwd.net/01280/48/01/1280901084_l.jpg

http://myspace-981.vo.llnwd.net/01280/18/91/1280901981_l.jpg

http://myspace-179.vo.llnwd.net/01280/97/13/1280903179_l.jpg

See... the foregrip is 'mini', just big enough to house a 9V and a board turned sideways. :D So if the foregrip is that small... puts the rest of the gun to scale huh?

Can't wait to see the faces of those of you that come and shoot it at Commanders Cup. :D :tup:
Ok that kinda answers what i was wondering..so there is a microswitch in the grip and some wires that go the length of the grip and connect it to the board? Looks to have the same type solenoid as the ion well same design atleast?

[coach10ef]

i'm in france in europe, can you give me a adress to contact a people for send this gun in europe

:clap:

[warbeak2099]

We don't have that much information about purchasing from Invert yet. The gun isn't even out. Invert's website hasn't even been updated with the new pics and all that. When the gun is released, I'm sure you'll be able to have it shipped to Europe or actually, NPS should have European distributors.

[manike]

The solenoid in this gun is NOTHING Like that in an Ion. This is a quality, easy to replace, unit. You'll be impressed when you see it... I think...

NPS Europe would be the place to get stuff for Europe....

[geekwarrior]

The solenoid in this gun is NOTHING Like that in an Ion. This is a quality, easy to replace, unit. You'll be impressed when you see it... I think...

NPS Europe would be the place to get stuff for Europe....

is this going to be at the Commanders Cup? never mind...just read it above :p


I guess the next question is, when can I buy one? :dance:

[warbeak2099]

These blasted things are never during a break. Meh, it's out in Cali anyways. I guess I will just have to wait. I would like to hold one and try one out before buying it though.

[CKY_Alliance]

The solenoid in this gun is NOTHING Like that in an Ion. This is a quality, easy to replace, unit. You'll be impressed when you see it... I think...

NPS Europe would be the place to get stuff for Europe....


My bad, just looks very similiar. And what about the microswitch? Does it use a microswitch?..only way i could think it would work would be a switch or eye in the frame like normal then a wire that goes through the top of the grip frame to the board?..is that how it works?..

[geekwarrior]

My bad, just looks very similiar. And what about the microswitch? Does it use a microswitch?..only way i could think it would work would be a switch or eye in the frame like normal then a wire that goes through the top of the grip frame to the board?..is that how it works?..

I'm trying to figure this out to, because earlier he said the only wires in the gun were the 2 to the battery and the 2 to the eyes. :confused:

[warbeak2099]

I'm trying to figure this out to, because earlier he said the only wires in the gun were the 2 to the battery and the 2 to the eyes. :confused:

Maybe the switch is on another board and that board plugs right into the main control board.

[CKY_Alliance]

Maybe the switch is on another board and that board plugs right into the main control board.

ye but then theres a whole nother board thats not needed..its like smartparts with their solenoid boards..why a whole board when u can just run a wire...when ull have to run one w/ or w/out a seperate board.


Edit: i wonder if the switch is in the top of the trigger frame..right above the trigger...hmmm that would make for a lot shorter wire to the board..and it could come through the little metal hole and just plug into the top of the board..

[warbeak2099]

I suppose we will see soon enough...

[FinchMan]

I like the idea of removeable electronics that could be swapped out for tournaments, but you'd still need to adjust the gun to set your dwell and stuff.

[kruger]

I got a Dealer flyer from Empire yesterday and, along with their weekly specials, there was just a pic of the Mini. No info or even a name. Just the pic.

[d4m4don3]

I'm trying to figure this out to, because earlier he said the only wires in the gun were the 2 to the battery and the 2 to the eyes. :confused:

You said wires, maybe they're traced out on the trigger frame, sort of like on a pcb?

[warbeak2099]

You said wires, maybe they're traced out on the trigger frame, sort of like on a pcb?

Wait what? Can you explain that a little more? Traced out on the frame...

[CKY_Alliance]

Wait what? Can you explain that a little more? Traced out on the frame...


I think its kind of like those things you put on your cell phone battery to give you better service...its like a circuit of flat metal..but i could be wrong

kinda like this thing..its like the infomercial thingys..
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/calcellular-store_1919_30610283

[m-a-r-k-7]

if the Aedes doesn't caome out... or I get tired of wating for it I'll get one of these. The idea of no eye wires or hoses excites me.

[warbeak2099]

Oh yea ok. I know what you're talking about. That'd be pretty cool. Damnit, I don't want to wait 2 and a half more months.

[d4m4don3]

Wait what? Can you explain that a little more? Traced out on the frame...
You ever look at a circuit board and see the metal traces on them? That can probably provide a conduit/path to the eyes and solenoid without the use of wires. But I've never seen that done on a marker before. Questioin is can it be or has it been done with the mini?

[Fred]

Simon - gonna have these at PSP world cup this year?

[warbeak2099]

How about a pre-order list?

[-Commander-]

Is the ASA physically attached to the frame, or can it be loosened a little to be reversed or lowered a little to allow for a butt-stock and what-not? Any info would be great!

Thanks,
-Commander-

[warbeak2099]

Is the ASA physically attached to the frame, or can loosened a little to be reversed or lowered a little to allow for a butt-stock and what-not? Any info would be great!

Thanks,
-Commander-

Not sure yet. However, you could always use a gas thru stock if it doesn't come off.

[RoadDawg]

it's called supply and demand if people stopped paying $1200 for a gun then the prices would fall but those flag ship guns are still selling well because for whatever reason a lot of people don't mind paying that price...

I've already stated that but no one cared. :rolleyes:

Quite simple enough SP is able to get the $500 per shocker because people are paying that much for them as is the same for all markers. Are they worth that much, obviously because people are buying them. (Econ 101)

Anyway... I still think this "Mini" is ugly and should be renamed "sin against humanity".

[warbeak2099]

I've already stated that but no one cared. :rolleyes:

Quite simple enough SP is able to get the $500 per shocker because people are paying that much for them as is the same for all markers. Are they worth that much, obviously because people are buying them. (Econ 101)

Anyway... I still think this "Mini" is ugly and should be renamed "sin against humanity".

Shockers are $700 not $500.

You are one of very few. Most of us think it looks good. But that's your opinion so who really cares right? However, unlike a lot of the other markers out there (NXT Shocker, anything with a Shocktech body, etc) the Mini actually has a sleek, clean design. It's simple yet different so it stands out. I personally think it's pretty classy and sweet. What specifically do you find unattractive about it?

[st6212]

Is the ASA physically attached to the frame, or can it be loosened a little to be reversed or lowered a little to allow for a butt-stock and what-not? Any info would be great!

Thanks,
-Commander-

I don't think its physically attached. Looks like you can remove it for disassembly, from the images it looks to be using a dovetail-type mount. But since the air goes through the frame and there aren't supposed to be any external hoses, it would suggest that the ASA is not an ordinary ASA and is needed as part of the marker in order to function the way it's designed. ie. you can't use any old ASA, drop forward or mini rail to replace the ASA on there.

That's what it seems like.

[Lurker27]

Shockers are $700 not $500.

You are one of very few. Most of us think it looks good. But that's your opinion so who really cares right? However, unlike a lot of the other markers out there (NXT Shocker, anything with a Shocktech body, etc) the Mini actually has a sleek, clean design. It's simple yet different so it stands out. I personally think it's pretty classy and sweet. What specifically do you find unattractive about it?

Yep, he's one of very few.

http://www.ans-ion.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SPSHOCKERVISION&click=7

Check before you speak next time.

[manike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_wo7uE1mUQ

The metalic sound is shooting the post in the far background. The plastic sound is shooting the nearby drum. Pretty much anytime you can see the target being shot, it's the back ground post with the base, long stem, and ball on top.

Shooting at about 290fps. Approx 200psi on the reg.

[Miscue]

Alright... now make a smaller pack that you can mount somewhere else... and put a regular foregrip on it... as an option. =)

[geekwarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_wo7uE1mUQ

The metalic sound is shooting the post in the far background. The plastic sound is shooting the nearby drum. Pretty much anytime you can see the target being shot, it's the back ground post with the base, long stem, and ball on top.

Shooting at about 290fps. Approx 200psi on the reg.

nice :headbang:

[warbeak2099]

Yep, he's one of very few.

http://www.ans-ion.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SPSHOCKERVISION&click=7

Check before you speak next time.

Um that's an 05/06 that the website is trying to clear out. The current 07 NXT models are $799 stock. You need to check before you speak next time.

http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=ACx8bRNSRsR86lZh_KK8xRmGv4MFZCeOm40=?Pro ductID=8MjAqArbhuQAAAENOpc3n%2eu9

Yea sorry, using outdated info to prove a point doesn't work.



Anyhoo, that video is amazing. I cannot wait till December. *cough*PRE-ORDER LIST*cough*

[grEnAlEins]

Um that's an 05/06 that the website is trying to clear out. The current 07 NXT models are $799 stock. You need to check before you speak next time.

http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=ACx8bRNSRsR86lZh_KK8xRmGv4MFZCeOm40=?Pro ductID=8MjAqArbhuQAAAENOpc3n%2eu9

Yea sorry, using outdated info to prove a point doesn't work.



Anyhoo, that video is amazing. I cannot wait till December. *cough*PRE-ORDER LIST*cough*
I was about to say close to the same thing, but you beat me to it... I was gonna go with either "He probably meant the NXT when he said Shocker" or I was gonna go the "I work for SP, SFT, NXT, etc. So I am reallly getting a kick out of..." route :rofl:

[warbeak2099]

"I work for SP, SFT, NXT, etc.

I lol'ed. :rofl:
Gotta love that line.

[warbeak2099]

It's not the current model anymore! That's a clean out sale Rogue. 06's were not $499 when they were the current model. They were $600-700 depending on whether or not they were vision. Now all the NXT's are vision. The NXT is not like a special edition just in case you didn't know. It's the new/current Shocker. So not, that is not a representation of the price of current Shockers. ANS is simply clearing out their 06's.

Seriously though, back on topic. The Mini. How have you found the efficiency to be? And how about a preorder list!!!

[warbeak2099]

Yea it does mean that it isn't the current model. It's been replaced. Just like the automotive industry, the 07 model comes out in the fall of 06. That's how it works. Shockers were not $499 at the beginning of the season. Maybe blind ones, but vision Shockers were between $600-700. At least $600.

Reall though, can we get back on topic?

[Lohman446]

Yea it does mean that it isn't the current model. It's been replaced. Just like the automotive industry, the 07 model comes out in the fall of 06. That's how it works. Shockers were not $499 at the beginning of the season. Maybe blind ones, but vision Shockers were between $600-700. At least $600.

Reall though, can we get back on topic?

I was offered new black ones (not a dealer myself) for $550 at the beginning of this year before the NXT

[warbeak2099]

I was offered new black ones (not a dealer myself) for $550 at the beginning of this year before the NXT

Vision? I'm just going by the online store prices which usually tend to be cheaper than anywhere else so... w/e.

Manike I'm assuming this is an lp gun so I'm gonna have to ditch my HP preset right?

[Lohman446]

Vision? I'm just going by the online store prices which usually tend to be cheaper than anywhere else so... w/e.

Manike I'm assuming this is an lp gun so I'm gonna have to ditch my HP preset right?


Yeh, Vision - local retailer

[warbeak2099]

Yeh, Vision - local retailer

Far out, nice deal.

[grEnAlEins]

Manike I'm assuming this is an lp gun so I'm gonna have to ditch my HP preset right?
Maybe not. It depends on the reg they use. I use a PE HP on my shocker (has maxflo). I was not able to use it on my A4Fly untill I swapped the reg.

[warbeak2099]

Maybe not. It depends on the reg they use. I use a PE HP on my shocker (has maxflo). I was not able to use it on my A4Fly untill I swapped the reg.

That's true. Seeing as the stock reg isn't changeable, I just want to know if it can handle an HP tank.

[Majinebz]

Is it just me or does it seem slow in the video??

Well, I like its size and no micro/macroline and the price is very nice.

How is the air efficiency on it? Say how many shots per 68cu 4500psi?

Can the board be manipulated besides firing modes? IE dwell, ROF, Eye delay, etc, etc

A question on the air going into the frame. does it have a milled passage for the air to go through?? (how it should be) or does it go into a macroline of some sort?? If it is a milled passage, I Hope they milled it fairly large cause then it would have a good makeshift air/dump chamber plus make the frame lighter.

Also, does this mean we are stuck using the regulated on/off assemblie with the marker? How reliable is it??

What type of detents does it use? cocker, Angel?? Custom??

Later, EBZ

[hitech]

How do you use a non-screw in tank?

[manike]

The video was only really intended to show that it wasn't vapor ware and to give an idea of scale.

I was shooting it in Semi, and in NXL mode (capped at 15bps). This video wasn't to show speed.

The new arms race is not about speed. It's about size, weight, ease of maintenance, consistency etc.

It's relatively easy to make a fast gun, it's not as easy to make a small, light, consistent gun... :cheers:

Yes you can adjust the dwell, and eye delay. It has a large volume chamber for the gas in the grip.

Hitech, right now, you don't. Sorry.

[punkncat]

The new arms race is not about speed. It's about size, weight, ease of maintenance, consistency etc.

It's relatively easy to make a fast gun, it's not as easy to make a small, light, consistent gun... :cheers:



I find it sortof funny. I realize that this is really the only way that marker manufacturers can go considering the speed threshold is well beyond the ball and loaders ability to match.
I am hoping that with these new light and small markers someone is going to catch up with loader and tank technology. In other words new markers are so small and light, but you still have to use this heavy tank and hopper on it throwing off the weight and feel. Some light sexy piece of aluminum stuck off inbeween a couple of heavy bubbles.....

[PumpPlayer]

I wish to see a decent, reliable 50 or 100-round hopper.


But then, I can wish in one hand and...

[Toll]

If there was a safe way to have a 13/9000 tank, that'd be neat....1000's of shots, weigh very little...destroy your ribcage and fling your arm a kilometer away...sweet.

[REDRT]

My $.02

Not AGD and not an Emag. Misleading title :nono:

[Majinebz]

Yeah, well I assumed it was capped but needed a confirmation.
Think about this though. Not that your little toy applies to this. But what if the gun is only capable of 15 because "its not about speed anymore" Cough cough horse *****. And all of the rules for paintball change to 20bps cap. So now you have a slow marker, cause the company who designed and manufactured the thing decided speed was not an issue anymore.

As for this race of arms BS.

You talked all about guns beign lighter, better consistency yap yap yap.... (You forgot the ergonomics, air effciency, reliability of the product and its components. Theres alot more then even that)

Yet the only thing you answered was the board questions. And enlarged air chamber in the grip.

Where are the other questions I wanted to know, like effieciency?? How many shots on a 68ci 4500psi? How about a 45ci 5000psi??

Whats the Regulator reliability?? Isn't the on/off the regulator also? So how reliable is it?? Ohh so if it fails, instead of screwing on a backup regulator that all other markers have, we are screwed, cause the marker is like HP computers and all parts are proprietary!!!

Can't use your flatline on it... that sucks.

how about what type of ball detent also??

Most of the questions I asked related to the BS you just yapped about?? Infact since I'am on that subject, Wheres that info??

What kind of consistency does it get?? What is it? You guys should have some numbers from testing?? "Outstanding velocity consistency" that does not answer *****!!

hell, you didn't answer much chump. Are you a rep for the product?? Cause I would rather drop an extra 500 bucks to DYE for a marker then deal with a smart a$$.

[kruger]

wow. This marker is not even on the market yet. I dont think that Manike CAN give all the information out just yet. And, I dont think that he is trying to just drum up Hype for it either. And, it would be prudent to wait and see what some of the reviews of this thing say, just to get some real world feedback on actual usage. Chill down a bit dude.

[Majinebz]

Well, for everything he could not answer he could have just stated that the information is not available at this time. Instead he wanted to give me a lecture about what the paintball market industry is about.... which was all BS anyway.

I would like to know alot of those questions without getting a BS or hype answer. I assume everyone else here would also. Does anybody disagree with that statement? Reliable information about a product that you may spend your money on??

Not vague misleading statements like "Outstanding velocity consistency" ALOT of marker companies claim this. Or "MAYBE the lightest, tightest marker avaialable." Halfblocks anyone??

Manike are you even affiliated with Invert?? If so, the information asked about should not be very hard to obtain right?. Especially if its only 2 months to its debut.

If not, WTF are you the one who chose to answer my questions?

[warbeak2099]

Majinebz, I'm sure by being a total douchebag you're going to get a lot out of him.

If you would read this thread and the one on pbn, the velocity has been reported to be around +5/-5 over the chrony before the regs are properly tuned / broken in. Manike has stated a bunch of times that he will not be releasing exact numbers for efficiency yet. Freaking shut the hell up about it already you're acting like a toddler with a temper tantrum. He has made statements saying it is reliable as well. I can't even begin to deal with the rest of the crap you posted. Look who's calling who a chump. He isn't going to give out all this info before NPS says it's ok. So sit down and wait like the rest of us. What makes you so special that he should answer to you? God get off your high horse, you're full of yourself and it's just sickening.

Oh and nice job avoiding the swear filter. I hope you enjoy ur temp ban. Reported.

[CaptainNeeda]

Flame on:

:mad:

Flame off:

[Majinebz]

hahahah thanks, +5 - 5.... ohh and yes, I'am special. thank you! :clap:

[manike]

Yeah, well I assumed it was capped but needed a confirmation.
Think about this though. Not that your little toy applies to this. But what if the gun is only capable of 15 because "its not about speed anymore" Cough cough horse *****. And all of the rules for paintball change to 20bps cap. So now you have a slow marker, cause the company who designed and manufactured the thing decided speed was not an issue anymore.

As for this race of arms BS.

You talked all about guns beign lighter, better consistency yap yap yap.... (You forgot the ergonomics, air effciency, reliability of the product and its components. Theres alot more then even that)

Yet the only thing you answered was the board questions. And enlarged air chamber in the grip.

Where are the other questions I wanted to know, like effieciency?? How many shots on a 68ci 4500psi? How about a 45ci 5000psi??

Whats the Regulator reliability?? Isn't the on/off the regulator also? So how reliable is it?? Ohh so if it fails, instead of screwing on a backup regulator that all other markers have, we are screwed, cause the marker is like HP computers and all parts are proprietary!!!

Can't use your flatline on it... that sucks.

how about what type of ball detent also??

Most of the questions I asked related to the BS you just yapped about?? Infact since I'am on that subject, Wheres that info??

What kind of consistency does it get?? What is it? You guys should have some numbers from testing?? "Outstanding velocity consistency" that does not answer *****!!

hell, you didn't answer much chump. Are you a rep for the product?? Cause I would rather drop an extra 500 bucks to DYE for a marker then deal with a smart a$$.

I'm sorry, but I won't answer any questions from you presented with such an attitude as in your last two posts. There is a LOT of information that we are deliberately holding back at this point. I think I know a little more about the paintball market and what is happening with it right now than most. :ninja:

Yes, I am the guy in the video. I'm one of the engineers that has worked on this project. I know everything there is to know about this gun, but I'm only allowed to release so much information at this point. Sorry.

If you're attitude was the prevalent one here I would be less and less likely to release information here or to reply here. And people wonder where the 'Old AO' went. People like you ruined it. :(

To those that are waiting patiently and have manners. :cheers: :headbang: Much <3!

[Majinebz]

Heck, I was just a potential customer!! Again, I say again, You could have stated the information is not yet available. I woulda shut my trap. But Instead you gave me a speach about the marker arms race. Which I took as you showing an attitude towards me. Cause I know there are plenty of people who would disagree with your statement regardless what you think you know. Because that is all personal opinion.

And whats up with this??? "If you're attitude was the prevalent one here I would be less and less likely to release information here or to reply here. And people wonder where the 'Old AO' went. People like you ruined it." WTF do you know?? I barely ever post here unless its something of intrest. I wont clutter this thread anymore. Ohh God, I dont even wanna imagine what your customer support is gonna be like!!! :eek: YIKES!!!

Dude, you just lost a customer. I'll drop that extra 500 bucks to Dye, who atleast will answer questions with thought to the customer in mind. Not boost their own egos!

[11 Bravo]

Majinabez is usually an ok guy. With the dealings I had with him anyways. It suprised me to see his attitude. He must have sat on a tack or something.

[Piranti]

I for one deplore "Manjina's" (sp...Majinebz) attitude here towards one who if I recall correctly was once an Engineer for AGD. Manike comes here posts about a marker he is helping to develop which is reminiscient of an E-Mag in looks, however modernized it is. As he even stated; which he shouldn't have to, that he is unable to release all the information about the marker and its operation. Even Nicad from Deadlywind has not released all of the inner workings of his 'Aedes' marker, and you damn well sure don't see Bob Long releasing the detailed information you are seeking about his new marker the 'Onyx' - formerly known as 'The Mummy 2'.

Manike did US the Ao community a favor by showing us a marker that he thought some of us would like due to its overall similarities to an Emag. He probably also expected a more mature and positive attitude from our community. Personally I am ashamed at some of the responses and posts by some members of AO recently. Sadly it is reminding me of the weak rambling of the PBN kiddies. That type of behaviour does not belong here nor; I suspect, do most of the AO community want that. We take pride in that we are different and more mature on average than some of the other PB communities.

What did most of our parents drill into our heads growing up? 'If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all'.

Either way, Thank you Manike for showing us and telling us what you can about this marker. I hope to see it and possibly dry fire it this weekend at the Commanders Cup in OC.

EDIT- Bunny5 posted information and pic's, Manike comes in and tells us a tad more than bunny5's post.

[warbeak2099]

Here here Piranti! Agreed. A general thank you to Manike is in order!

THANK YOU MANIKE!

[geekwarrior]

held and shot this today. :D so awsome. My friend had his Angel 1 along, and the mini is noticably smaller and lighter. Shot a hopper of reballs through it, no kick, super smooth. I am getting one! Might have to hold out for the silver, it is hawt!!! Super small and tight! :shooting:

[warbeak2099]

held and shot this today. :D so awsome. My friend had his Angel 1 along, and the mini is noticably smaller and lighter. Shot a hopper of reballs through it, no kick, super smooth. I am getting one! Might have to hold out for the silver, it is hawt!!! Super small and tight! :shooting:

SWEET! :dance:

[dsrkd]

I was able to shoot one today too! 1st it is extremely light. It 'feels' comfortable in the hands with taper in the upper portion of the battery pack. The samples I handled all had nice finish work. Reasonably quiet, fast and almost no kick. Halls sensor type trigger. Easy on/off, programs thru the board and the on/off button (ala nerve board programming kind of). You open up the battery pack to access the board. I was told 'limited editions' will be periodically offered (like the silver one geekwarrior refers to). The blue version will be very tempting for me.
All in all I liked it.

[d4m4don3]

Add to the fact that they ran another circuit board from the foregrip to the eyes, and solenoid. Completely modular so that breakdown and reassembly is a lot simpler. Plus one of the reps mentioned firing 1600 shots. :wow:

[SpecialBlend2786]

Piranti is my favorite 2k6'er as of now.

[bunny5]

Update: 10/22/06

Video on page 1.

[Piranti]

Egads this is a very nice marker. Everyone saying this marker is light and small just cannot do it justice.

Went to the Commanders Cup this saturday and got to fire it with reballs. The marker itself is lighter than most tanks and hoppers filled with paint. It is surprisingly well balanced with either a peanut or 68/45 on it with a load of paint in a Halo B. It does not require a drop forward at all, if you somehow managed to put one on the gun would be too close to your face. Well at least with how I hold my marker and shoot them. They were getting probably like 1800 - 2k shots from a 68/45 using reballs chronoed low enough to use them 240-250ish. The trigger pull is very nice with adjustable magnetic return using a Hall Effect sensor like our beloved E-Mags. Firing the marker was enjoyable in trigger feel response and recoil. There was little to no recoil, least that I noticed.

For those that dont like the front grip, bah, Most of us don't fully circle our hands around our front foregrips anyways, more like cup them and with how the front grip is it is very comfortable to hold and move the marker around.

One of my friends who plays almost exclusively with a pump, loved it and wants to get one now as well.

Top points for this marker:

1. Light - with the barrel, battery, reg(in the frame), and On/off ASA it is incredibally light.
2. Size - Single tube design, and small but not too small to make it uncomfortable.
3. Air Efficiency - Very Efficient marker on air consumption.
4. Price - for under 500 this marker is phenomonal.
5. Child Proof - Maintenance and care for this marker is nearly childproof. Only one hose in the gun, no external lines at all to worry about.
6. Innovation - Probably the best feature of the marker, I really tip my hats off to these guys they have come up with some rather ingenious and NEW things on how to make a marker go. Did i mention the NEW innovations in this marker with several patents that SP should not be able to touch ?


Also looked at the Bob Long Onyx. Although it is a very nice marker it comes with a hefty pricetag and is probably twice the weight, Bang for Buck Mini beats it hands down.


If anyone gets a chance to take a look at these markers do it you wont be dissapointed.

[Mango]

Heck, I was just a potential customer!! Again, I say again.....
$
$$
$$$
$$$$
$$
This douchenozzle can go
http://home.comcast.net/~jtrussell7/DieInAFire3.gif





On topic:
Nice one Simon! I'll be picking one of these up to add to the collection.