which marker for woodsball & few shots

[jnjloo]

hey,
I play woods ball with some friends (8-10 or so) and we play about 90% of the time with limited paint, about 50 rounds/ game. cheaper, have to be more accurate, ect. (I know alot of people don't care for it but.......)

anyway, I'm looking for a more accurate gun than the spyder shutter i've used for a long time. I like to sniper mostly and want to hit the same place with each shot instead of having them weave around each time like I have now. Distance is good certainly, but reliablility is upmost. I prefer c02 tho I know nitro is better, as I already have a co2 tank and like to be able to fill in the woods, so wouldn't mind using a remote line and hardware if needed. I am not a fan of tinkering (so I'm reading probably autococker is not my wish), just want a reliable gun. I'm looking at mag's (obviously), and don't know which one would be suited for me. I had decided on a rt pro, but when reading more about it, it says specifically it is designed for fast shooting, which I would like to be able to do, but don't need too much (by that I mean rapid fire, not 15balls/sec). I see the tac-one looks good, but I'm looking for a used gun, and there aren't many. Also looking for one with a angled feed so I can use a red dot scope (just the way of things).

Any help is appreciated, I know NOTHING about any markers other then spyders, besides reading up a bit on mags and the level 10 and such.

thanks
dan

[ahellers]

sounds like a pro classic might suit you well. you cant use a red dot with the SS bodie but you might be able to find a tac 1 body used for a fair price.
t

[buzzboy]

If you want to get a mag you will need a classic valve if you want co2. And then a remote or anti siphon CO2 really helps. Look for a powerfeed automag or minimag that has a siterail. Then you will be able to mount the red dot. Do you have an agitated hopper? If you don't even though you won't shoot too much paint a good hopper is a good idea just in case.

[peewee]

I prefer pumps in limited paint games. My phantom or my old CCM had always worked well, for simple you cant beat the phantom. I'd take a look at a right hand gravity feed bottom lined phantom.

[TheGrindPunk]

Woodsball is all I play, and I know about shot conservation. One case will last me and my brother for a good 4-5 hour day. I started out playing with a compact 2000 and a TL-Plus..... Then I moved to a minimag with a lapco bigshot barrel and x-chamber (cause a 20oz co2 tank lasts all day plus about 200 more shots at home). You can't go wrong with a minimag or a pro classic.... heck, you can get a pro classic and slap a minimag body on there for an extra $10 and not have to get an after market front grip. I'd say look into those two markers - best bang for your buck hands down.
:shooting:

[jnjloo]

thanks alot guys, I"m looking!!!! (might check out the a5 with a flatline too, sorry :), but have to look around)

[ahellers]

save your money and dont get the flat line, its not all its cracked up to be. if your looking at tippys check www.tippmannowners.com for advice.
t

[kruger]

Yea, the flatline does have a little better range, but accuracy sucks.

[Shirow]

I would second a pro classic, any mag with an x/retro valve won't work with CO2.

You won't be shooting that fast with a pro classic and a single trigger frame, it's easy to take care of and it will fulfill all your needs.

[doc_Zox]

roll yer own:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox/PB/tacmag03.jpg

[peewee]

Sir would that be a punisher skull on the side of the bike grip??

[Lenny]

Sniper... ugh... Don't get me started... :cuss:

Anything with a classic valve will suit your needs. Classics run great on CO2, will not be out shot by a mech frame (pneumags not included), and the durability, reliability, and eas of maintenence are unparalleled (almost).

Just be sure to keep liquid out of the gun. Any Automag valve hates liquid CO2. Run a tank vertical with a shoulder stock, run remote, get it anti-siphoned, whatever; just keep liquid CO2 out of the gun. It tends to break o-rings and seals, and after too heavy rapid fire, will make your gun lock up for a minute or so.

*Zox, awesome Automag! I've never seen anything like it! Truly original!

[doc_Zox]

i do own a Punishers rig, but that one is a dead-by-dawn original

we kinda do like the skull thing

alot

[jnjloo]

Thanks for the input. I'll look for a classic valve and go from there. as i'm new to mag's the 68 is a classic valve right?

and I'll do the remote setup and start with that.

thanks again
dan

[jnjloo]

I'm basically looking for what's in the pic (assuming it can take a co2), just need to keep it within my 350 ish budget.

thanks again!!

[doc_Zox]

thats a 12 gram co2 powered classic 68

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox/PB/tacmag02.jpg

[jnjloo]

hmm,
looks like the 68 classic auto with angled feed, expansion chamber, level 10 bolt, remote air, and sight rail might be just what I need. Glad I didn't get a rt pro.

So.................... honestly, has anyone ever had an A5 flatline and a 68 classic so they can give an honest comparison. I was accuracy, distance, and reliability. (yeah, I know don't want much) oh yeah, and affordibility :) I'm in about the 300 ish price range

thanks again
dan

[Shirow]

Accuracy and distance are not going to be much different, marker to marker. If you shoot a paintball at 280fps, it's going to go the same distance (variable based on barrel, paint match etc.)

All you really should think about is:

Does this gun do what I want?
Will it run on CO2?
Is it easy to maintain?

Both the A5 and the Pro Classic fit those requirements. Which one is better? I like mags - they are more upgradable. If you have no plans to ever go to HPA or have no interest in upgrading, then maybe the A5 would be better for you - you don't have to buy an agitated hopper for it.

Really, those are the only things worth comparing, IMO.

[jnjloo]

hmm, then if accuracy and distance are about the same marker for marker (is that all markers or just these two?), maybe I should just stay with my sypder shutter??? It doesn't seem overly accurate tho, even with 4 different barrels.............
dan

[mobsterboy]

a5's felt too breakable to me. The trigger was really plastic and weak feeling, there was no real trigger pull response to it, it felt honestly like a capcom time crisis gun when i pulled the trigger on a friends a5. I hate the design, they made that thing too bulky and their cyclone feed is only as good its tuned to be. Just pick up a standard classic valved mag on the Automags.org Buy/Sell/Trade section, I'm sure you can find a cheap classic with lvl 10 for like 100 to 150. Pick yourself out a couple upgrades or keep the difference. personally, Im going back to a classic valve, it was and always will be my favorite, hands down for woodsball

[Shirow]

hmm, then if accuracy and distance are about the same marker for marker (is that all markers or just these two?), maybe I should just stay with my sypder shutter??? It doesn't seem overly accurate tho, even with 4 different barrels.............
dan

Well, maybe the barrels all suck, plus you are using CO2 which isn't going to be terribly consistent. Maybe the paint is horrible?

I shot one of my friends Spyders back in the day and it shot all over the damn place too, so maybe Spyders are just cheap pieces of junk with crooked bolts or something, I don't know.

Let me rephrase - I doubt you would notice a huge accuracy difference between an A5 or a Pro Classic, but I would agree that A5s feel cheap to me.

[yingyang]

You think about going pump?

[jnjloo]

no, no pump, had one back in the day, and prefer to shoot a little quicker if I need too. We usually play with a 50 rnd limit, so not 10/sec obviously, but once in a while..............

I think i'm going to rental a few from a guy in town to narrow it down, I just can't decide for sure. Like to test a few and see for myself, should help.

thanks all
dan

[Toll]

I got my a5 cheap as all hell and I was relatively happy with it, I find the flatline to be over rated for what it actually gives....what good is 15 more feet when your marker now sounds like a cannon and you are lucky if the wind doesnt take them well off course.


Maybe an Autococker? They are pretty good on co2 but if something goes wrong, they're a headache.

[Marroonblooded]

had spyder for years, but with out a decent bolt (venturi or bob long riffle effect bolt like me :D ) they suck... maybe you just need to upgrade what you got... they shoot hot but are fairly dependable with proper cleanning and lubbing as with every other gun (except for cockers they like to be difficult) However an automag is better, more consistant... kinda like comparing cheap bicycle or car to a nicer one... automags are sturdy as hell ( i have broken 3 spyder frames and the whole gun is kinda chauncy, works fine... but...)

The A5 is a decent gun... played with one two weeks ago... i like the concept and unique is always cool, but its big, loud, clumsey(sp), and did i mention big? (huge compared to the mag which means more tangle ups in the woods).

and the flatline... all i can say is that this needs to be added to the gimic thread for sure!

In paintball the so called "accuracy" is really precision or the ability of the gun to be consistant, not accurate... if you know consisitantly where the ball will go or act (my spyder with the bob long bolt is very presise but not so accurate, has a consistant rise followed by a very slight clockwise like motion... you can then evolve to accuracy via aim adjustment

Also, even with only 50 balls in your hopper... if you do ever need to pump out some paint, the automag is considerably faster thant the a5

[Mag11806]

out of the markers you're considering, i'd go with the mag. new minimags are around $240 direct from AGD, used ones are available for around 100-150 if you look around a little.

if you're not ripping on it, the classic valve should be ok on co2 as long as you aren't playing in colder weather.
i've owned a minimag for years and in my experience, they're still one of the lowest maitenance/ most reliable markers out there. as a plus, depending on where you play, the mag will stand out more than a tippman.

[Banshee23]

had spyder for years, but with out a decent bolt (venturi or bob long riffle effect bolt like me :D ) they suck... maybe you just need to upgrade what you got... they shoot hot but are fairly dependable with proper cleanning and lubbing as with every other gun (except for cockers they like to be difficult) However an automag is better, more consistant... kinda like comparing cheap bicycle or car to a nicer one... automags are sturdy as hell ( i have broken 3 spyder frames and the whole gun is kinda chauncy, works fine... but...)



The Bob Long & venturi bolts for the spyder aren't very good at all, not sure where you found your info. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock bolt as long as you remove the venturi from it (very easy to do, you just unscrew it from the fromt of the bolt). The best bolts used to be the AKA lightning bolt or the check-it bolt, not sure if either are made anymore though.

jnjloo, your inconsistentcy problems probably stem mostly from both your barrel choice & your reg (biggest thing). The shutter reg is awful, if you moved to a real reg like a Palmer stablizer you'd see a definate shot to shot consistency improvement which should lead to some accuracy improvement. With the barrel, get a good but relatively cheap barrel like a CP one piece. Stay away from 32 degrees & CMI barrels and the like, they tend to be not very good. Do the stock bolt mod to your gun or buy one of the anti-chop bolts they make now for spyders. And don't use really cheap paint, no marker or barrel makes crap paint fly straight. That should help your shutters performance. Or just get a classic mag with lvl 10, an exp chamber, & a remote line ;)

P.S. If you want to go the fix your spyder route here's a link to the BEST spyder upgrade/tinker/upgrade page ever: http://web.archive.org/web/20050205081247/www.ottersccustoms.com/upgrade.html (Otter's site is down right now so you need to view it from that link - the web archive page rocks :headbang: )

[jnjloo]

thanks all,
appreciate the spyder comments too without just saying something like "all spyder's suck" as I have had mine for a long time and liked it. I can shoot one shot perfectly on spot (with my red dot scope), but shooting several in a row makes it go all over the place, with also makes me think that it might be the regulator. I have just bought a new barrel jt I believe 14 inch seems ok, but didn't make any difference.

Sure is hard getting your mind around what to do. Had my choice down to a 68mag or a a5, leaning towards the mag, went into the local shop, n he says mags suck autocockers are best and never mess up if you don't take them apart and mess with them....... opposite of what i'd heard. Need to be like old henry ford and jsut have one choice :). "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black"

I'll try the bolt mod, you say it just screws out banshee?, worth a try. Instead of a Palmer reg, which is about 110, I think I still will try a diff gun, will keep the shutter for backup tho, (sold my 2nd one to get a new gun), as I rarely have any trouble with it, always works.

confused, but still working on it ;)
dan

[Marroonblooded]

The Bob Long & venturi bolts for the spyder aren't very good at all, not sure where you found your info. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock bolt as long as you remove the venturi from it (very easy to do, you just unscrew it from the fromt of the bolt). The best bolts used to be the AKA lightning bolt or the check-it bolt, not sure if either are made anymore though.

jnjloo, your inconsistentcy problems probably stem mostly from both your barrel choice & your reg (biggest thing). The shutter reg is awful, if you moved to a real reg like a Palmer stablizer you'd see a definate shot to shot consistency improvement which should lead to some accuracy improvement. With the barrel, get a good but relatively cheap barrel like a CP one piece. Stay away from 32 degrees & CMI barrels and the like, they tend to be not very good. Do the stock bolt mod to your gun or buy one of the anti-chop bolts they make now for spyders. And don't use really cheap paint, no marker or barrel makes crap paint fly straight. That should help your shutters performance. Or just get a classic mag with lvl 10, an exp chamber, & a remote line ;)

P.S. If you want to go the fix your spyder route here's a link to the BEST spyder upgrade/tinker/upgrade page ever: http://web.archive.org/web/20050205081247/www.ottersccustoms.com/upgrade.html (Otter's site is down right now so you need to view it from that link - the web archive page rocks :headbang: )

I will agree that they aren't great but a lot better than the bolt that came on my spyder... not even a true venturi... and I have found my bob long to be great... for an old bones spyder anyway (nice and consistant)

[olinar]

hmm,
looks like the 68 classic auto with angled feed, expansion chamber, level 10 bolt, remote air, and sight rail might be just what I need. Glad I didn't get a rt pro.

So.................... honestly, has anyone ever had an A5 flatline and a 68 classic so they can give an honest comparison. I was accuracy, distance, and reliability. (yeah, I know don't want much) oh yeah, and affordibility :) I'm in about the 300 ish price range

thanks again
dan
i acutally own a flatlined a5 and a classic.
for the milsim look its definitely the a5.you can make a classic look milsim but itll take wuite a few parts. the flatlined a5 shoots farther than anyother barrel.but accuracy is definitely compromised.especially with rapid fire.my a5 looks great but its not all its cracked uo to be then again anythin tippman is like that. i have been dissapointed too many times by my tippys but ,my classic keeps me happy.

[jnjloo]

ok,
a complete turn around. As I'm doing woodsball, mostly sneaking around few shots and such, I ended up getting a phantom pump! :ninja:
I will keep the other semi-spyder and try teh phantom, got HUGE reviews on all sites about it, and fits just what I need perfectly, need to get to be a better aimer/player anyhow.
I sure appreciate all the input from you all and offers for guns, may not like it in the end, but will give it a try.

(let the flaming begin) :rofl:

dan

[Shirow]

ok,
a complete turn around. As I'm doing woodsball, mostly sneaking around few shots and such, I ended up getting a phantom pump! :ninja:
I will keep the other semi-spyder and try teh phantom, got HUGE reviews on all sites about it, and fits just what I need perfectly, need to get to be a better aimer/player anyhow.
I sure appreciate all the input from you all and offers for guns, may not like it in the end, but will give it a try.

(let the flaming begin) :rofl:

dan

Nobody on this forum would flame you for getting a Phantom..

[jnjloo]

lol that's good to know, think it will make me a better player n suits my needs more. I never thought of it till yingyang mentioned it, then ran across a review site. I owned a few pumps before (like 1990) and they SUCKED, so had a bad view of them, but makes sence they are better now. Think it will suit my needs just fine. Thanks again for all the support guys
dan

[don miguel]

I say go for a minimag, because thier valve is strong, and a pretty good stock barell. My mag is great when I have good paint for it. so Mabe you just need good paint, or a minimag. :D it' worth it.
http://store.airgun.com/images/product/large/lg_187.jpg and mabe when you rake in the dough you can make it into this baby, (she is good for sniping).
http://www.specialopspaintball.com/shop/prodimages/1000009a.jpg

[personman]

I think you already said you got one but the phantom is an excellent choice. VERY high quality and if you ask me, underpriced. Its an awesome deal.

However, if you are ever looking for a nice semi, you absolutely cannot beat the price that a used classic mag goes for nowadays. You can get one for under 150 that should do you right :)

[jnjloo]

yeah,
Been lookn at the longbow too (drool drool) :wow:

but what I really need are some skillz, and think the phantom might help me aquire some. I may still try to sell my other semi and trade it in for a classic 68, probably not till next spring though.
dan

[don miguel]

yeah,
Been lookn at the longbow too (drool drool) :wow:

but what I really need are some skillz, and think the phantom might help me aquire some. I may still try to sell my other semi and trade it in for a classic 68, probably not till next spring though.
dan
I am heavily thinking about going pump, but I am not sure yet. I gaurentee that you will gain skills and when you get a semi again you will own everyone. Good luck with the phantom, its a pretty nice gun. Rumor has it that specialops is making a phantom longbow kit, so if you like the longbow you might be in luck.

[jnjloo]

I had also read that on the special ops site that they should soon be coming out with a kit for the phantom for the longbow, sounds interesting, though I keep reading that all guns shoot the same distance and basically accuracy (unless not rigged very well), so not sure it's really worth the extra cash for the longbow. Will get my phantom and have to see.....

lol, on a side note, a new guy's coming to woodsball with us next week, and is borrowing a gun from someone he knows.
says it's a tricked out tippman 98c with an e trigger and the guy says he can hit a 2 inch pattern every time at 100 yards lolololol will like to see that

dan

[evildead420]

IMO, you should look into a Q loader. there super tight and holds 100 rounds. if you have the money, Q loader has the right kit for what your style of play. ;)

[olinar]

roll yer own:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox/PB/tacmag03.jpg
its not even pump!are you some sort of a pro sniper or sumthin?

[doc_Zox]

for snipe huntin' i carry this mag:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//m1416.jpg

[jnjloo]

that's a mag????

[RedEyes]

looks like a classic mag with a stick feed. look on top of the mag and you'll see the gray mag body. props for that mag.

[doc_Zox]

looks like a classic mag with a stick feed. look on top of the mag and you'll see the gray mag body. props for that mag.


thats a mag!:
http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox/M1AGD/M1409.jpg

[warbeak2099]

Did you do that yourself or did you buy it from Extremesportandhobbies.com or RPG?

[Marroonblooded]

wow... looks like a sks or aka stock but the top stock/ muzle cover seems too thin to be wood which leads me to believe aftermarket... maybe not, just looks very thin for wood. I'm a fan,

The first time I shot my sks with a banana clip, went "full auto" via kick, I was about 14 and the kick literalyy caused me to pull the trigger, quite humerous/ dangerous but hot "dang" wjat a gun to shoot, big mamma joma bullets but hardly any kick and a hair trigger to boot!!! ( got mine for 99.00 straight out of a WWII crate and up'd to a full fiber glass/ plastic fold-in stock, bipod, and laser sight for an additional 150... what a buy!! Kinda makes paint ball look expensive!

Da ' man with a plan,
I'm outta here,
Thanks/ sorry,
Da Design destrict in Dallas had some sort of event with free wine and food!!!!!,
Coop

[doc_Zox]

i ebayed the standard ES&H M-14 set up and did the longbow mod myself

someone needs to buy this one for 90 bucks:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUTOMAG-68-AIRGUN-DESIGNS_W0QQitemZ320035937384QQihZ011QQcategoryZ16 048QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
before i do...

[jnjloo]

I was going to post a pic of my new phantom, but can't figure out how to post a pic........
(sigh) :tard:

[Philey-O-Fish]

I was going to post a pic of my new phantom, but can't figure out how to post a pic........
(sigh) :tard:

What you do is you get the picture on your computer. Be sure to remember where you saved it. Then go to www.imageshack.us and get it hosted. Imageshack will provide you a few lines of code, copy the second line with the large IMG letters. Come back here and paste it. It should work.

[don miguel]

that mag is really close to the PPS hurricane.
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/guns/hurricane-14-barrel.JPG
(sorry a little big) but your mag is way cooler, lookes like an m1 carbine. :wow: