All Downhill From Here?

[don miguel]

I was at boston paintball supply today and I was getting my minimag fixed (or trying to at least) and the guy there said that they don't carry AGD parts anymore. They used too but he said "ever since the company is going down hill, we stopped carrying thier stuff. They just don't make new products anymore, and are behind the competition". Luckily they had some spare orings in the closet and fixed my gun. but is that statement true, is AGD really going downhill? i hope not. ROCK ON AGD! :headbang:

[warbeak2099]

No that's not true. Use the search button, this same thread pops up every day.

[StygShore]

we wont call it down hill...

lets call it teetering at the top and not sure what direction they are going to roll...


with a backhoe slowly digging out the backward slide :)


Styg

[don miguel]

we wont call it down hill...

lets call it teetering at the top and not sure what direction they are going to roll...


with a backhoe slowly digging out the backward slide :)


Styg
true... so true...

[don miguel]

this company isn't going down is it, because I think the guy at boston paintball was telling the truth. he was saying how mags ar not popular (totally wrong) and how the company is run out of some guy's house. I think he was trying to talk crap about AGD so I would buy a better gun from him. i dont know.

[don miguel]

No that's not true. Use the search button, this same thread pops up every day.

i don't get what you mean can you explain?

[geekwarrior]

i don't get what you mean can you explain?

he means that people having been saying AGD is shutting their doors for a couple years now. There are lots of threads on here from newer members asking or saying this.

[don miguel]

he means that people having been saying AGD is shutting their doors for a couple years now. There are lots of threads on here from newer members asking or saying this.
oh ok. I was confused because the proshop people are dissing AGD and I was confused because the xmag came out and stuff, so they aren't really behind. proshop people can be misleding just to sell stuff.

[Maghog]

One thing's for sure, don't trust the guys at Boston Paintball, unless you like paying too much for used equipment their selling as 'new'
I went there a few times when I was starting out in paintball, only to stop going there after I learned that they will scam you any chance they get.

[Lohman446]

he was saying how mags ar not popular (totally wrong)


Are you honestly making the argument that mags are a popular marker when compared to others in the current paintball market?

[VFX_Fenix]

The end is neigh! 'Tis the twilight of an age! Repent ye sinners! REPENT!

You'd think if AGD guns were still really popular, I might see one occationally floating around. So far I think the only other person I've seen using an Automag in person in recent memory is Carbon when I met him at an NCCS tourny.

Personally, I like to consider AGD a "Dark Horse" if you will... something of a Cult phenomenon :rolleyes:

[don miguel]

Are you honestly making the argument that mags are a popular marker when compared to others in the current paintball market?
in my opinion, yes. I see 1 autococker for everey 5-6 mags. Autocockers are supposed to be pretty common. But I guess thier not. mabe this is different for places other than massachusetts.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b14/luisfabian/karnivor.jpg less popular than http://blake.prohosting.com/~edge1/guns_files/custom_automags.jpg

[dahoeb]

well...autocockers aren't really the that popular of a gun out there right now either, so you shouldn't really judge the mag too much compared to that one. generally speaking, mags really aren't that popular. like an endangered species, there are still a few places where the mag flourishes though. you seem to be lucky enough to live in one of those places.

[gibby]

I don't think AGD is going downhill...it's just stalled waiting for AAA to tow it back to the top. :D

[don miguel]

I think that if AGD realeased some unknown prototype, like a new valve, gun, or something, they could get back to the top of the market. I think mags are for educated players who are a little old school (not saying every mag owner is, especially ones with the awesome mods in the photo gallery) because mags are a fairly simple design, are easy to take apart, and repair. I think AGD will come out with a new product that will make them more famous. I will be sporting my new mag + warp at the 28 days after scenario at fox4. I hope to turn heads, and possibly make new maggers (if that's the right word for it).

[gibby]

I think that if AGD realeased some unknown prototype, like a new valve, gun, or something, they could get back to the top of the market. I think mags are for educated players who are a little old school (not saying every mag owner is, especially ones with the awesome mods in the photo gallery) because mags are a fairly simple design, are easy to take apart, and repair. I think AGD will come out with a new product that will make them more famous. I will be sporting my new mag + warp at the 28 days after scenario at fox4. I hope to turn heads, and possibly make new maggers (if that's the right word for it).

Honestly, I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for something new to come out of AGD. I think all they are doing is continuing their support to their loyal user base. I also don't think it's as easy as you think when it comes to creating something new and revolutionary. First, it costs a lot of money. I don't think AGD makes enough to fund something like that. Heck, keeping this forum online is a hit on their budget!

As for the "mags are for the educated" statement, I don't know about that. In fact, I would almost say that's a pretty ignorant thing to say.

Funny, I used to think just like you when I went out on the field. I felt compelled to "educate" others on mags but in the end, it didn't have much of an affect. I also shot a warped mag at one point in time too. Sure, it turned people's heads, but I don't think it sold them on it. Especially now where the trend is to see who can have the lightest and smallest set up? The warped mag just comes across as something bulky and heavy. Besides, the reputation of the mag will never go away unless AGD takes the time and resources to come up with something "new." I just don't see that happening any time soon.

I say, forget about trying to "educate" the rest of the pb world. Just go out, play, and have fun. Besides, if you really feel that your mag is above the rest, why reduce your advantage to the other player on the field by selling him a mag? :D

[Lohman446]

in my opinion, yes. I see 1 autococker for everey 5-6 mags. Autocockers are supposed to be pretty common. But I guess thier not. mabe this is different for places other than massachusetts.


ANd how many Shockers per mag?

DMs? Timmies? Ions?

[don miguel]

ANd how many Shockers per mag?

DMs? Timmies? Ions?
I do see a few shockers but to tell you the truth I have never seen a timmy anywhere but in a proshop. Dm's are too expensive and nobody around here has them, or that I know of.

[warbeak2099]

Idkn, you must live in the boonies, but mags are not popular. They are some of the least popular guns out there. Even cockers are more popular. What are you basing these observations on, what you see on AO lol?!

[don miguel]

Idkn, you must live in the boonies, but mags are not popular. They are some of the least popular guns out there. Even cockers are more popular. What are you basing these observations on, what you see on AO lol?!

I have been too four pantball parks in my life cape cod paintball, PNL, and fox4 twice. All of those times someone or two people had a mag(s), everyone else has angels or low end spiders. But everyone with angels "had" a cocker but upgraded too an angel. Since autocockers are supposed to be popular, I have not seen many at all. Only on websites, and a girl had a karnivor once at fox4. that is where I am basing my knowledge. mabe I doo live in the bonnies of massachusetts, but one question are you saying mag owners live in the "boonies"? If you are one you kinda insulted yourself. mabe thats not what you were trying to say?

[warbeak2099]

Well, upon clicking on your homepage it leads you to a woodsball team. There you go, you're playing at a woods field. Of course you aren't going to find all the most popular, latest technology out there when you play. Obviously mags, spyders and tippmanns are going to be the norm. You go to a speedball field and you will see a major difference.

Lol, I also find it cute that you guys use the field positions from spec ops. "dagger" lol...

[Recon by Fire]

"Going down hill" = here today, forgotten tomorrow paintball company?

I wouldn't bother to even listen to a store keeper's information like that garbage. They just want to push what they are selling and making money off of. Just another episode of "AGD closed it's doors" if you ask me.

[warbeak2099]

At the same time, there was some truth to it. AGD is in no way dead. They're doing fine in the scenario and rec market. But it's also true that Mags are not popular anymore. They are a niche gun like Blazers.

[Carbon]

agd, not going downhill. But certainly not going uphill either.

[benzy2]

There isnt anything left to do to the gun really other than maybe make it more efficient which would take a lot of work and money. AGD has its customers it needs to stay open. They have never been into all the advertising. They have never been about hype. And they will never become the must have new thing with that attitude. Its not a bad thing and I enjoy being the only person with a mag. They have a solid mech product. What else do you really want them to do. They have never came out with a new marker each year, tweaking little things like so many of the more popular guys. They know where they are and they are happy enough with it. They just reached the top of the hill and put it in park.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Ok, I also live in MA.

And nearly everyone here, besides you apparently, knows that the guys a BP supply lie like rugs. They exist to make money, and if you set foot inside their store your just a mark.

If you honestly never see a dm, cocker, timmy, or shocker at a field you must be playing rogue ball. At fox 4 for every Tippman there is at least one of the aforementioned. In fact there tend to be more Ion's than Tippmans. Last week I saw two mag's at the field, and one of them was in my bag.

AGD is not dead and as long as there are people who get angry at people who ask that question with looking to see if someone else has just asked it, it won't die.

Please do a little searching before you post stuff like this and the which is better threads, its all been beaten to death.

[don miguel]

There isnt anything left to do to the gun really other than maybe make it more efficient which would take a lot of work and money. AGD has its customers it needs to stay open. They have never been into all the advertising. They have never been about hype. And they will never become the must have new thing with that attitude. Its not a bad thing and I enjoy being the only person with a mag. They have a solid mech product. What else do you really want them to do. They have never came out with a new marker each year, tweaking little things like so many of the more popular guys. They know where they are and they are happy enough with it. They just reached the top of the hill and put it in park.
I do agree being one of the few with a mg, makes people ask questions about it.

[don miguel]

Ok, I also live in MA.

And nearly everyone here, besides you apparently, knows that the guys a BP supply lie like rugs. They exist to make money, and if you set foot inside their store your just a mark.

If you honestly never see a dm, cocker, timmy, or shocker at a field you must be playing rogue ball. At fox 4 for every Tippman there is at least one of the aforementioned. In fact there tend to be more Ion's than Tippmans. Last week I saw two mag's at the field, and one of them was in my bag.

AGD is not dead and as long as there are people who get angry at people who ask that question with looking to see if someone else has just asked it, it won't die.

Please do a little searching before you post stuff like this and the which is better threads, its all been beaten to death.
that is a very good, point, aI have been sold alot of overpriced crap at BP. Last two times I went to fox4 everyone there had a5's or 98's even speedballers. There were about four kids with angels, and I say a bunch of spiders and an ego. Me and 4 other kids had a mag. Thats how it worked. It probably differs from time to time, but I honestly dont think that mags aren't popular.

[warbeak2099]

that is a very good, point, aI have been sold alot of overpriced crap at BP. Last two times I went to fox4 everyone there had a5's or 98's even speedballers. There were about four kids with angels, and I say a bunch of spiders and an ego. Me and 4 other kids had a mag. Thats how it worked. It probably differs from time to time, but I honestly dont think that mags aren't popular.

Compared to other guns they aren't. They are niche guns like I said before. There isn't a terribly huge amount of people running out and buying them. There's a relatively small, but loyal customer base. Dye, SP, Tippmann, Kingman, NPS, WDP, all sell way more units than AGD. They are not popular compared to the other name brands. Capice?

[AGDRetro]

I have had alot of people show an intrest in my Mag (mostly starts with "what the heck is that!?") and while it intrests them the majority of players don't want anything oddball or unique. Many younger players only want to be the first among their friends to have the "new gun".

AGD could spend a ton on marketing and create a new body style every other month & hype the crap out what they have to offer... but they aren't Bob Long. Tom was never into selling us a bunch of BS, and that continues to be the attitude we get out of AGD. Personally I love and support it, as long as it keeps them in business. The fact that the Mag was originally introduced in '92 (am I off by a year?) and is still in production is a testament to its great design and reliability, where newer guns like the Impulse are out of production and I can't see anyone supporting those things a few years from now. The Defiant 2, there was a winner of a gun, so awesome it could only be produced for a year! Who is gonna have the parts to support that 2-3 years from now?

The Mag was designed to perform and built to last, and I really do not mind being the oddball at my field who has the same gun year after year, that continues to perform like new while other players dump more money into the "latest & greatest". The older it gets, the more heads it will turn!

[shartley]

Depending on where you are, Mags either sold well or collected dust. Depending on where you are, Mags are either popular or not. But even if they are not a rarity, they certainly are not the dominant marker on most fields.

There is a business adage that goes “If you are not moving forward you are falling behind”. This is very true. So now apply that to AGD vs the majority of marker manufacturers out there.

AGD has always been a niche market (and company) IMHO (and interested more in LE and Military sales than paintball imh), no matter how much AGD wanted to bust out and lead the pack. And simple “interest” at fields does not make sales. When a new player (for the most part) is faced with buying equipment they tend to go with popularity and what they can afford… as well as bounce that off of what they perceive they are getting for that price. And no matter how much diehard Mag users tout the benefits and value of Mags, the sale is getting harder and harder.

Now diehard Mag users may not like this (and argue to the contrary), but it is just as it is. And I feel that if AGD tried harder to produce what the customer base wanted as opposed to educating them and trying to sell them what they didn’t want over the years (and then blame the players for being ignorant) because that is what they had for sale, AGD may actually been able to give the other manufacturers a run for their money. And diehard Mag users (read : zealots) simply echoed the AGD mantra while bashing anyone who saw things differently.

Now with all that said, is the Mag a bad marker? Heck no! It is a GREAT marker. But it still remains a niche product IMHO even with their direction change to scenario and woodsball play. Can it bust out of that and become a mainstream marker? Sure, but not by simply selling the same marker with a few add-on parts. They need to show the paintball playing public that they have something that is both new and can compete (both in function and price) with other markers in its market base. And that does not mean simply on online forums, it means at brick and mortar stores and fields.

Of course there is NOTHING wrong with being a niche marker. Look at PPS. How many of their markers are sold at stores around the country? How many of their markers do you see in comparison to other brands on the fields? But you don’t see their users trying to claim they are something they simply are not. And you don’t see them (PPS) trying to claim they are anything other than what they are either. They have their niche and they are not only proud of it, but comfortable with it as well.

Why can’t AGD and Mag users be the same? You can’t have it both ways.

[don miguel]

Depending on where you are, Mags either sold well or collected dust. Depending on where you are, Mags are either popular or not. But even if they are not a rarity, they certainly are not the dominant marker on most fields.

There is a business adage that goes “If you are not moving forward you are falling behind”. This is very true. So now apply that to AGD vs the majority of marker manufacturers out there.

AGD has always been a niche market (and company) IMHO (and interested more in LE and Military sales than paintball imh), no matter how much AGD wanted to bust out and lead the pack. And simple “interest” at fields does not make sales. When a new player (for the most part) is faced with buying equipment they tend to go with popularity and what they can afford… as well as bounce that off of what they perceive they are getting for that price. And no matter how much diehard Mag users tout the benefits and value of Mags, the sale is getting harder and harder.

Now diehard Mag users may not like this (and argue to the contrary), but it is just as it is. And I feel that if AGD tried harder to produce what the customer base wanted as opposed to educating them and trying to sell them what they didn’t want over the years (and then blame the players for being ignorant) because that is what they had for sale, AGD may actually been able to give the other manufacturers a run for their money. And diehard Mag users (read : zealots) simply echoed the AGD mantra while bashing anyone who saw things differently.

Now with all that said, is the Mag a bad marker? Heck no! It is a GREAT marker. But it still remains a niche product IMHO even with their direction change to scenario and woodsball play. Can it bust out of that and become a mainstream marker? Sure, but not by simply selling the same marker with a few add-on parts. They need to show the paintball playing public that they have something that is both new and can compete (both in function and price) with other markers in its market base. And that does not mean simply on online forums, it means at brick and mortar stores and fields.

Of course there is NOTHING wrong with being a niche marker. Look at PPS. How many of their markers are sold at stores around the country? How many of their markers do you see in comparison to other brands on the fields? But you don’t see their users trying to claim they are something they simply are not. And you don’t see them (PPS) trying to claim they are anything other than what they are either. They have their niche and they are not only proud of it, but comfortable with it as well.

Why can’t AGD and Mag users be the same? You can’t have it both ways.
Thanks, that is a very educated awnser, and i personally really do like PPS markers, especially the double barelled typhoon. I saw one at a scenario game once, but the woman (I know I was shocked too, you dont see many weomen with paintball guns these days) that had it wouldent let me hold, or shoot it. She said it was a very good gun and scared alot of people. It was also semi automatic, she had two evo2s on it. The thing looked awesome. I think that if PPS and AGD joined forces that they could make a really cool and well designed gun. It would be like a blazer mag or something like that. :cheers:
http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/images/Higher-res/dbl.JPG
OH YEAH BABY WOO HOO!

[Lohman446]

It would be a panther...

[rkjunior303]

I've never had a problem with Anthony or anyone else at BPS..... I can see where they're coming from, though. AGD is severely a niche market now and when it comes to the masses, it's just not that common. Why stock something you may sell only a handful of parts for in the course of a year (or maybe two).. Ya knw?

[don miguel]

I've never had a problem with Anthony or anyone else at BPS..... I can see where they're coming from, though. AGD is severely a niche market now and when it comes to the masses, it's just not that common. Why stock something you may sell only a handful of parts for in the course of a year (or maybe two).. Ya knw?

QUESTION: is anthony the one that is always there with the we kill suckers shirt on all the time? I was there this saturday and he was giving me all this crap about owning a mag, like "those guns suck up too much air","they are so slow and dont keep up with the market", and he was trying to make me buy his last automag twist lock freak barell in stock for 53$ when the rest are only 50 (for other threaded guns). I have never had problems there in the past but on saturday, he really made me feel bad for spending my money on a mag. I really like my minimag but he kept putting AGD down. I found it wierd. I told him that Fox4 sercvices and sells mags, and parts (they used too until this saturday according too the guy at BP). But he says that "oh my buddies at fox 4 just stopped selling and repairing mags, mabe you should sell your mag and go for something like the new shocker". He was being annoying. When I asked him if he had minimag orings he charged me $1.04 for each of the two I had too replace, and said that was a good price too. I found that wierd. I kind of expected that because BP is a bunch of scammers (in my opinion) because they are the only Pb shop near me, so thats all I got.

[gibby]

Don...of course he's going to try to sell you something new. It's part of his job. Not to mention selling you something new means that you'll probably be in there buying new stuff to upgrade your new toy. But some of the stuff he says is true. Compared to what's out there now, the mag is a gas hog and although it might have the fastest recharge rate(RT/X Valve), achieving speeds that actually takes advantage of it is hard to do.

Also, back in the day when companies made twist lock barrels, the mag barrels were usually more expensive. Definitely more than the $3 difference with the other freak kits you saw at the store. As for the price of some of the parts you're buying, compare those with what's on AGD's online store.

Honestly, if you're going into a store nowadays talking about your mag, expect to hear otherwise from the store owners/employees/customers. It's nothing new if you're a long time mag owner.

[KC]

1) Xmags/Emags are no longer produced.

2) Tom retired from AGD

3) Deadlywind has stopped building bodies for AGD markers

4) Slug bodie no longer availabe

5) Colored X-valve no longer available

6) Replacement ACE no longer available

7) AO is paid for out of pocket by Tom (thanks) Not sponsored by AGD

8) Very few retailers stock AGD markers compared to years past

9) AGD europe is focusing on distribution/sales for "National"

10) AGD has not released a new marker or a major upgrade in the last 2 years.

Now I love my AGD Automags as much as the next guy but im not blind... And those of you who say agd is popular, i have not played with another automag (not owned by me) for the last 10 years. Spiders, 98s, a5s, cockers, angels, shockers sure, but NEVER another AGD gun.

I hope AGD does something to light the AGD fire back up in the marker, or yes, "it's all down hill from here."

[don miguel]

1) Xmags/Emags are no longer produced.

2) Tom retired from AGD

3) Deadlywind has stopped building bodies for AGD markers

4) Slug bodie no longer availabe

5) Colored X-valve no longer available

6) Replacement ACE no longer available

7) AO is paid for out of pocket by Tom (thanks) Not sponsored by AGD

8) Very few retailers stock AGD markers compared to years past

9) AGD europe is focusing on distribution/sales for "National"

10) AGD has not released a new marker or a major upgrade in the last 2 years.

Now I love my AGD Automags as much as the next guy but im not blind... And those of you who say agd is popular, i have not played with another automag (not owned by me) for the last 10 years. Spiders, 98s, a5s, cockers, angels, shockers sure, but NEVER another AGD gun.

I hope AGD does something to light the AGD fire back up in the marker, or yes, "it's all down hill from here."

I must question your response. Emags and custom emags are available. And if AGD dosent sponsor AO then why when you buy a product from them, why do they send you an "official member ship card to AO"? I got one when I bought my minimag, warp, and Ygrip. Now I have three. So correct me if I am wrong but what is the deal with the membership cards then? (I have one in my wallet). :confused:

[don miguel]

It would be a panther...
GRRRRRRRRRROWL!

[shartley]

I must question your response. Emags and custom emags are available. And if AGD dosent sponsor AO then why when you buy a product from them, why do they send you an "official member ship card to AO"? I got one when I bought my minimag, warp, and Ygrip. Now I have three. So correct me if I am wrong but what is the deal with the membership cards then? (I have one in my wallet). :confused:
E-Mags and X-Mags are not being produced, as in “made”. The ones you can order are from parts already produced. When they run out…. you get the idea.

AGD used to sponsor AO. AO is still the official Automags Owner Group Forum. AO is and always has been, the main marketing avenue and showcase for AGD. Thus the membership cards.

Although on the front page of the site it says:

Automags.org is the OFFICIAL Automags Owners Group. The site is owned and operated by Airgun Designs, and provides a place where players can come together and interact.
… from what I understand that is not quite accurate any more.

[don miguel]

E-Mags and X-Mags are not being produced, as in “made”. The ones you can order are from parts already produced. When they run out…. you get the idea.

AGD used to sponsor AO. AO is still the official Automags Owner Group Forum. AO is and always has been, the main marketing avenue and showcase for AGD. Thus the membership cards.

Although on the front page of the site it says:

… from what I understand that is not quite accurate any more.
Oh sweet thanks.

[SpecialBlend2786]

why do they send you an "official member ship card to AO"? I got one when I bought my minimag, warp, and Ygrip. Now I have three. So correct me if I am wrong but what is the deal with the membership cards then? (I have one in my wallet). :confused:

hahahaha
:ninja:

[11 Bravo]

So correct me if I am wrong but what is the deal with the membership cards then? (I have one in my wallet). :confused:

Whatever you do - DON'T lose your membership card! :eek:

[warbeak2099]

Whatever you do - DON'T loose your membership card! :eek:

I'm going to laminate mine...

[AGD-OfficeGal]

Hi guys--

AGD-USA pays to keep Automags.org online. ;)

Marcia
AGD-USA

[Arstron]

It would be a panther...

... I would love to see a picture of the panther, I wonder how it compared to similar markers today.

[eNder159]

straight from the horses mouth

[hitech]

And diehard Mag users (read : zealots) simply echoed the AGD mantra while bashing anyone who saw things differently.


I'm a "diehard" mag user and not a zealot. :nono: And I don't bash those with different opinions. :nono: The eMag was the best choice for me when I purchased it. It still does everything I want it to do, and does things I can't find in other markers.

[athomas]

There are a few mag users where I play. There are no autocockers. The majority of newer players who play speedball use Ions because they are cheap and fast right out of the box. The fact that I see a lot of people working on them to keep them going doesn't concern buyers. Other popular guns include Tippmans and Spyders. These are owned by woodsballers. The automag is considered a luxury gun by woodsballers. It is considered an entry level gun by speedballers. AGD is stuck in the middle. Perception is AGD's biggest prolem.

[SCpoloRicker]

I'm a "diehard" mag user and not a zealot. :nono: And I don't bash those with different opinions. :nono: The eMag was the best choice for me when I purchased it. It still does everything I want it to do, and does things I can't find in other markers.

C'mon, man, you can't respond to a Sam troll. ;)

[hitech]

Things are quite enough around here that I respond to anything I can think of a responce for... :rofl:

[Muzikman]

this company isn't going down is it, because I think the guy at boston paintball was telling the truth. he was saying how mags ar not popular (totally wrong) and how the company is run out of some guy's house. I think he was trying to talk crap about AGD so I would buy a better gun from him. i dont know.


Mags are not nearly as popular as they have been in the past.

When Tom was running AGD it could have been said that it was run out of his house as he seemed to spend more time there than at his house.
:)

[shartley]

I'm a "diehard" mag user and not a zealot. :nono: And I don't bash those with different opinions. :nono: The eMag was the best choice for me when I purchased it. It still does everything I want it to do, and does things I can't find in other markers.
I was not inferring that all diehard Mag users were zealots. I apologize if that is how it looked. My intent was to further categorize a certain user, more like a sub group.

[Muzikman]

AGD has always been a niche market (and company) IMHO (and interested more in LE and Military sales than paintball imh), no matter how much AGD wanted to bust out and lead the pack.

You must not have been playing paintball in the mid 90's. :)

[KC]

Your other post was already responded to with many of the answers to your worries. Here it is again:

My other post was flawed. That is why this one has different wording. Die hard AGD fans found ways of dumbing down and steping around the other post.

Here it is again in detail:

1) Xmags/Emags are no longer produced.

(you can buy a etach or a custome-emag but once they run out of lower ends thats the end.) A custom emag has the same upper end as a $350.00 rt. so at $1,000.00 the lower end cost the customer $650.00. IMO, the price tag is the reason they are still available.

2) Tom retired from AGD

yes he still posts on ao

3) Deadlywind has stopped building bodies for AGD markers

and after email communication with deadlywind they "doubt" they will build the karta again.

4) Slug bodie no longer availabe

Manufacturing issues (will find link) even if "out of stock" was true without deadlywind it won't matter either way.

5) Colored X-valve no longer available

(will find link)

6) Replacement ACE no longer available

AGD commented that they would have to buy 100 to re-stock them and they dont plan on it

7) AO is paid for out of pocket by Tom (thanks) Not sponsored by AGD

(will find link) quote was more or less "agd didnt aquire all my bills I still need to find a way to pay for ao" + all the AGD=tom threads about fees and banner space

8) Very few retailers stock AGD markers compared to years past

notice the NEW wording

9) AGD europe is focusing on distribution/sales for "National"

10) AGD has not released a new marker or a major upgrade in the last 2 years.

[shartley]

You must not have been playing paintball in the mid 90's. :)
Not as much as I would have liked. I didn't get into playing on a regular basis until after that... although I have been playing since the mid-late 80's.

[SCpoloRicker]

Not as much as I would have liked. I didn't get into playing on a regular basis until after that... although I have been playing since the mid-late 80's.

Muz's point is that from, say '93ish through around '97-'98, mags and cockers were the bees' knees.

[Pneumagger]

Backin 97, mags were the thing to have. You showed up to a field with a minimag, and you were picked first. period. They were all over APG magazines, and the RT was the stuff of legends. The RT was the gun that put nitro into the main scene. If the RT was merely a niche gun, nitro would not be where it is today.


And yes... I can see AGD slowly going the way of the dodo. Sure, AGD isn't closing it's doors. But it's not fighting to keep 'em open either. I would charactarize AGD as a once superpower turned apathetic.

[Tool-of-death]

Yup AGD is going down the toilet. The only reason that I see that mags are not popular is the fact that the fact that they don't get very good gas milage.

My classic valve weighes less then my friends ion and my frineds promaster, it's a hell of a lot more accurate and lighter than tippmanns.

Hell if the devil mag frame(or somthing simaler) ever got mass produced and AGD "somehow" made the gun get alot better gas effeciency I could see mags becoming mainstream.

But do to the lack of interest from AGD, and the lack of support from 3rd party manufactures I don't think mags will ever take off again.

It's just that simple.

[shartley]

Muz's point is that from, say '93ish through around '97-'98, mags and cockers were the bees' knees.
I didn't miss his point.

Of course that does not make the overall picture look any better though. ;) In fact it kind of supports the idea that AGD is indeed going down hill.

[Lohman446]

Is it downhill? I would not think so, not from here. AGD has reestablished there identity as a niche company. I think you see the bottom of the hill, if we are discussing purely terms of popularity.

[stop whining buy a mag]

I'll have a go at this one too...

I'd have to disagree with you on this one. You're throwing out a lot of if's.

Most of this stuff is being produced at the moment because of low demand. Low demand is caused by a smaller and smaller market.

I'd hate to offend anyone with this metaphor but AGD is like a cancer patient. They're still fighting (and have people helping them) but more than likely they will eventually lose. They can only hold on for so long.

[Tool-of-death]

I'd have to disagree with you on this one. You're throwing out a lot of if's.

Most of this stuff is being produced at the moment because of low demand. Low demand is caused by a smaller and smaller market.

I'd hate to offend anyone with this metaphor but AGD is like a cancer patient. They're still fighting (and have people helping them) but more than likely they will eventually lose. They can only hold on for so long.

Thats a good analogy. and very accurate but don't forget. some cancer pationts survive :)

[stop whining buy a mag]

I'd have to disagree with you on this one. You're throwing out a lot of if's.

I am throwing out ifs?Show me those ifs, please.



Which stuff? Usually stuff that is produced is done so because of high demand, or its not done.

How does that work?[/QUOTE]

Bah, forgot a "not".

When the market gets to a small niche, it's hard to produce some of the mag aftermarket products and sell all of them.

Lots of the aftermarket frames and whatnot only had batches of a 100 or so because that's all of a market there really is for them. For most people creating these, a small batch of 100 with an even smaller profit margin is just not worth it. Especially with the big headaches.

[REDRT]

Thats not true. Palmer Pursuit Shop and CCI have been doing it for years now. Why would it be different for mags?

Ive been doing it for a few years now, its not all that difficult.



Dye made more than 100, Benchmark did too. I know for a fact AGD made more than 100 Intelliframes & Y-Grips. Logic has said he made more than 100 of his vert frames, and I can assure you I made more than 100 of mine.

So, which 100 batch product are you referring to? And what were the margins on that product you are referring to?

Some people take a guess, and others have actual numbers. If you are guessing, Id say your guesses are wrong. If they arent guesses, please provide the actual data, I am very interested to see the numbers that verify your assertions.

Providing actual data to support them numbers goes both ways you know. :rolleyes:

[Tool-of-death]

Providing actual data to support them numbers goes both ways you know. :rolleyes:

What is your point?

[mobsterboy]

Providing actual data to support them numbers goes both ways you know. :rolleyes:

why would rogue go and state numbers that did not need to be known? Why show all your cards before seeing the flop?

[REDRT]

I'm sorry who appointed you all mighty rule maker Rogue? Wouldn't it be better if anyone spouting off numbers as gospel, automaticly back them up so there is some sort validity in the first place? ;)

[SCpoloRicker]

Laughing at you, not with you T-o-D

[Lohman446]

I don't know. Well it may be common its certainly not in the interest of showing the truth.

How much time would TK have saved if rather than demonstrating the lack of paintball spin he had told all the others to prove it. Or the magic box. Or... well you get the point. Sometimes disproving is done as an intellectual exercise and an attempt to educate, rather than just demanding proof to "win" an argument.

[stop whining buy a mag]

Thats not true. Palmer Pursuit Shop and CCI have been doing it for years now. Why would it be different for mags?

Ive been doing it for a few years now, its not all that difficult.



Dye made more than 100, Benchmark did too. I know for a fact AGD made more than 100 Intelliframes & Y-Grips. Logic has said he made more than 100 of his vert frames, and I can assure you I made more than 100 of mine.

So, which 100 batch product are you referring to? And what were the margins on that product you are referring to?

Some people take a guess, and others have actual numbers. If you are guessing, Id say your guesses are wrong. If they arent guesses, please provide the actual data, I am very interested to see the numbers that verify your assertions.

I'm talking about the previous attempts at electronic mag frames like the one Coolhand did. Even look at the Devilmag frames. Yes, the Devilmag was popular but look at how long they are taking. To run a small batch you can't have a warehouse full of people doing them but they take a long time to do one by one.

I love mags and often encourage people to buy one when their Ion keeps failing them. But it would talk a blind man or a liar to go to a field and tell me that he sees mags on the rise.

[don miguel]

FYI airgun.com is selling everything at least 20% more expensive than other websites. EG- actionvillage minimag oring kit 11$ airgun.com 22$, action village xvalve 300$ airgun 350$

[stop whining buy a mag]

FYI airgun.com is selling everything at least 20% more expensive than other websites. EG- actionvillage minimag oring kit 11$ airgun.com 22$, action village xvalve 300$ airgun 350$

How much is Dye selling DM6's for on their site?

[FiXeL]

FYI airgun.com is selling everything at least 20% more expensive than other websites. EG- actionvillage minimag oring kit 11$ airgun.com 22$, action village xvalve 300$ airgun 350$

And your point is? Lots of manufacturers do that so they don't have to bother with selling them in small quantities. Sure, you can get parts cheaper at other stores, but they buy in bulk and get cheaper pricing if they do so. Look it from a sellers perspective: would you rather sell one part with 10% profit, or 20 parts with 5% profit? The effort of shipping and handling would be roughly the same, but you would gain more profit by cutting labour costs at a lower margin when selling in bulk.

Large shops can afford to buy large stocks, and offer them at a lower price..

[Lohman446]

It is in the interest, which is why its been commonly established. Truth starts with fact.

Your statement is ironic though. You say the interest of showing the truth is by way of making unfounded statements which lack the very thing you say you are wanting to show. :spit_take


Then that intellectual exercise and education should first begin with knowing how to establish an argument. ;)


Nobody is trying to win an argument yet. Just to have one based on facts. You cant "win" an argument if one hasnt been established. To disprove someone, you must disprove some sort of support, not their opinion.


I meant to seperate the two. Sure you can simply seek to disprove someone elses argument. Its an interesting intellectual endeavor.

Its is not mutually exclusive though to showing, with your own evidence, why you are correct. If I say that spiral porting makes the ball spin stabilize itself for added accuracy you can tell me to prove it all you want, ask for my facts and figures all you want. Or you can take a machine that spins the entire marker and ball together up to an insane speed, use a high speed camera, and prove that spinning a paintball does not stabilize it, so it cannot have an impact on accuracy. I know what TK would have done :D

[hitech]

I know what TK would have done :D

He wasn't trying to win any arguments. He had more opportunistic motives. ;)

[autococker04]

i am the only person that i have ever seen use a mag at any of my fields over the last 3 years

[mobsterboy]

I love mags and often encourage people to buy one when their Ion keeps failing them. But it would talk a blind man or a liar to go to a field and tell me that he sees mags on the rise.

mags are on the rise
:ninja:
:tard:

[don miguel]

mags are on the rise
:ninja:
:tard:
One day people might understand that rate of fire is not the key to winning paintball. I get made fun of because my mag can't ramp. I dont give a crap, Ive owned rampers plenty of times. AUTOMAG REVOLUTION!!!!!! :shooting:

[Lohman446]

One day people might understand that rate of fire is not the key to winning paintball. I get made fun of because my mag can't ramp. I dont give a crap, Ive owned rampers plenty of times. AUTOMAG REVOLUTION!!!!!! :shooting:


I've "owned" people with pumps, and Sydarms before. Does not mean that rate of fire is not a handy thing to have available when you want it

[warbeak2099]

One day people might understand that rate of fire is not the key to winning paintball. I get made fun of because my mag can't ramp. I dont give a crap, Ive owned rampers plenty of times. AUTOMAG REVOLUTION!!!!!! :shooting:

My mag ramps... I guess that means I'm not included in the revolution?

[don miguel]

I've "owned" people with pumps, and Sydarms before. Does not mean that rate of fire is not a handy thing to have available when you want it
I can see your point, ROF is important while bunkering or things like that.

[don miguel]

My mag ramps... I guess that means I'm not included in the revolution?
Unfortunately not. I think of ramping as an easy way to spray and pray. I do think ramping is cool. unless you are one of those people who put ramping to a cause by bunkering people, or aquiring multiple kills during a game, then I respect you. I do not respect spray and prayers.

[REDRT]

Unfortunately not. I think of ramping as an easy way to spray and pray. I do think ramping is cool. unless you are one of those people who put ramping to a cause by bunkering people, or aquiring multiple kills during a game, then I respect you. I do not respect spray and prayers.
Since I've updated Emag to ramp in early 05 I've found I use less paint overall. I credit this to being for more accurate and not trying to out do the players with the latest death cannon. I just play smarter when I can.

[don miguel]

Since I've updated Emag to ramp in early 05 I've found I use less paint overall. I credit this to being for more accurate and not trying to out do the players with the latest death cannon. I just play smarter when I can.

I like people that play with thier brains and not with thier boards, so good for you REDRT :cheers:

[warbeak2099]

Unfortunately not. I think of ramping as an easy way to spray and pray. I do think ramping is cool. unless you are one of those people who put ramping to a cause by bunkering people, or aquiring multiple kills during a game, then I respect you. I do not respect spray and prayers.

There is no correlation between ramping and spray and praying. Ramping simply makes the game faster paced and it makes it harder to move. It actually makes you have to think more about your movements and strategies. I think ramping is good for the game when regulated. Which is why I never ramp over 15bps.

[don miguel]

There is no correlation between ramping and spray and praying. Ramping simply makes the game faster paced and it makes it harder to move. It actually makes you have to think more about your movements and strategies. I think ramping is good for the game when regulated. Which is why I never ramp over 15bps.

good for you :cheers:

[PumpMag]

I've played with my Custom Automag since the early 90's for rec play. Then, for the past 2 years with my Team, Omega Sector, I've been shooting my PumpMag at the Old School Challenge, and now I shoot it for the NSA tourneys. It's always a conversation piece at the field. Vet players remember it, Refs love to chrono it, kids younger than the marker will ask "what is it?" with curiosity and wonder. At Huntington Beach NPPL March 2006, I used my my most recently aquired E-mag. In one-week from now at Orange County NPPL October 2006, i'll shoot my E-mag again......and I'll bring along my trusty PumpMag too.

The AutoMag is coming back -

Every time I shoot it.

[don miguel]

I've played with my Custom Automag since the early 90's for rec play. Then, for the past 2 years with my Team, Omega Sector, I've been shooting my PumpMag at the Old School Challenge, and now I shoot it for the NSA tourneys. It's always a conversation piece at the field. Vet players remember it, Refs love to chrono it, kids younger than the marker will ask "what is it?" with curiosity and wonder. At Huntington Beach NPPL March 2006, I used my my most recently aquired E-mag. In one-week from now at Orange County NPPL October 2006, i'll shoot my E-mag again......and I'll bring along my trusty PumpMag too.

The AutoMag is coming back -

Every time I shoot it.

I like your enthusiasm :cheers:

[PumpMag]

Hi guys--

AGD-USA pays to keep Automags.org online. ;)

Marcia
AGD-USA



See AGD does sponsor its players!

Hi Marcia. :)

[don miguel]

See AGD does sponsor its players!

Hi Marcia. :)
yeah I told ya (those who said AGD didn't sponsor AO) so!

[quasimorte]

From what i have heard AGD also has government contracts for training equipment as well as less than lethal weapons development. I am not positive of the accuracy of this but this is what i have been lead to believe in the past. so even if the consumer branch of the company appears to be stalled they are still developing and selling to government and law enforcement agencies.

[FeelTheRT]

WTF! Tom K retired?

i stopped playing for 3 years and nothing at AO has changed and it seems to be going down hill. I talk to some of my old PB buddies who all play serious tourny now and they all laugh when i mention AGD ... =[

[PumpMag]

WTF! Tom K retired?

i stopped playing for 3 years and nothing at AO has changed and it seems to be going down hill. I talk to some of my old PB buddies who all play serious tourny now and they all laugh when i mention AGD ... =[
My teammates used to snicker at my choice of marker too. But that stopped real quick at practice when they get shot in the head by my well known AGD marker. :headbang:

[Nick E]

I still think that they should go into some EP stuff. It's damn cheap, if you have the resources, and you'd lose the giant emag battery pack. And to hell with not folling the way of the rest of the market, advertise it! the smarter(and more loyal customers) would see right through it, but you'd still be able to attract the newer crowd who wants "fast, light, and EP!"
Just because they're still afloat now doesn't mean it'll stay that way for too long. I see one other person at my field with a mag, and a few of the refat the field and sales guys in stores have recognized it, said how they loved it, but got rid of it after it started getting hard to find parts and new stuff didn't come out. So I can see where they're coming from, but I still think mag's pwn face. We just need a better way to deliver the extreme speed and consistancy of the valve, out into the mainstream and onto the field.

[warbeak2099]

I still think that they should go into some EP stuff. It's damn cheap,

No it isn't. Especially with the SP/DYE/WDP patent holding situation. AGD would have to pay royalties that it can't afford. Also, R&D would be expensive for an all new, updated EP Mag. Besides, AGD is doing just fine with the rec/scenario market. They'd only lose money if they tried to get back into the tourny scene.

[RavishingEddie]

No it isn't. Especially with the SP/DYE/WDP patent holding situation. AGD would have to pay royalties that it can't afford. Also, R&D would be expensive for an all new, updated EP Mag. Besides, AGD is doing just fine with the rec/scenario market. They'd only lose money if they tried to get back into the tourny scene.

Yeah and I think they would also lose money from the fact that many AOers have found ways to turn their current mags to reasonable speed tourny mags IE: Pmags, Devilmags, Xmoded E/X mags. The need is not as great. The other thing is that they would need to go overseas and it would hurt for me to say that my mag is not built in the good ol USA :cry:

[warbeak2099]

What AGD could do however, is try to team up with PTP and actually get the damn Pneuframe out. They already have a prior business relationship with PTP, so no haggling or arguing would be necessary (or not as much).

[don miguel]

they need to bring back some old goodies like the zgrip, and they sould lower thier emag prices to at least 800$. (my opinion)

[Pneumagger]

Word on Ebay is that AGD is going out of business.

[warbeak2099]

they need to bring back some old goodies like the zgrip, and they sould lower thier emag prices to at least 800$. (my opinion)

Once again, there's a nice way to lose money. Very little people would go out and buy a Zgrip. Bringing back old things is stupid and bass ackwards. What they need to do if they want to refresh themselves is get something new going. Like an AGD/PTP Pneuframe. Otherwise, they're fine where they are.

[Arstron]

I would be happy with just new pump kits....