07 Shocker

[punkncat]

Got to mess around with one today. Break beam eyes in very DM like covers. New Max Flow reg with a nut adjuster ala Ion, with Imp threaded barrels now. Comes stock with an HE bolt and a snatch grip. VERY nice anno. The trigger frame differes slightly, kinda Ton Ton-ish. The balance is quite a bit better. I look forward to seeing how these will be. Its about time SP did something new with their "flagship".

[Pneumagger]

meh, doesn't seem so "new". Ben Franklin says it's still cheapo aluminum and is no faster nor efficient.

Sounds to me like they added eyes and changed the barrel feednecks...to IMPULSE :tard: . Other than that, it's like buying an upped shocker. I'll bet they have LE Shockers in about a week that cost $999.

I would call it hardly new. But make no mistake, several new technologies and marketing words will arise from this innovation.

[punkncat]

meh, doesn't seem so "new". Ben Franklin says it's still cheapo aluminum and is no faster nor efficient.

Sounds to me like they added eyes and changed the barrel feednecks...to IMPULSE :tard: . Other than that, it's like buying an upped shocker. I'll bet they have LE Shockers in about a week that cost $999.

I would call it hardly new. But make no mistake, several new technologies and marketing words will arise from this innovation.


I think no faster is a forgone conclusion with anything you can buy right now. What matter does it make anyway?

Impulse threads are common among owners as the Impys and Ions both use them. It is somewhat funny when you consider that the owner of an Ion can throw the cost of a Shocker into it and have as nice a marker IMO. Now that the bugs are shaken out Ions seem to be pretty reliable...something I have yet to see with a Shocker.

No doubt though that SP will put the Hype spin on hard core so that we all appreciate the innovation they keep bringing to the sport.... :rolleyes:

[don miguel]

I caught a glimpse of one last weekend at BP, It looks sweet, but I like the 05 shocker (red) better. Just my opinion. :ninja:

[iambored]

where have you guys been? :tard:

[13thlegionnaireCapt]

this is just an attempt to sell more....
i have owned alot of shockers..
The only benefit to the new shocker is the H.E kit comes standard now(and should have because it was a AIR PIG until you got it or another effcientcy kit like a ndz stinger 3 or freeflow kit) and , the breakbeam eyes, not that it was that big a deal, because most shocker users upgraded to a better board due to the multi modes not on the "nerve" and not offered in the standard shocker unless you bought the blackheart installed from sp themselves for 100 bucks more. The aftermarket boards come with better eye logic anyway like a virtue or predator2 compared to a blackheart for sp.

the reg is just a ion reg with a new costume, and is not up to par with some of the better regs on the market, but may have some appeal to a newer kid shooting co2 as it says it will work with it, but i wouldnt suggest it, niods don't like the cold..lol

all the other stuff. like frames, bolts boltguides etc are compatable with the sft...just a marketing scheme, and not a new design, just an attempt to cut out the " custom" companies like tag sportz etc from doing the break beam custom installs etc..

and if you handle one, and have handled a pre 07 shocker , you will notice that the 07 is actually much heavier..and sp anno always was lacking (they say it is a more durable anno on the 07 but we will see), players just accepted it because the gun was a compact, light , simple shooter..

just my 2 cents..

[don miguel]

If you like the 07 shocker check this out:
http://www.firstcallpaintball.com/images/large/products/14-1-rlegion.jpg
THE RUSSIAN LEGION SHOCKER this gun is so sweet. Way better than 06'. :cheers:

[Shirow]

You sure do have to love smart parts. Gotta love their innovations, like those ugly body sleeves on Ions, those are pretty awesome. But wait, they also throw some half naked chicks around, put them both in a race car and then sue everyone to sell some cheaply made piece of junk for $1000.

Bitter? Perhaps a little. I'd like to take a 'shocker' to some of those guys though..

Sigh. I just got done looking at some X-Mag pictures again. SIGH.

[neppo1345]

You sure do have to love smart parts. Gotta love their innovations, like those ugly body sleeves on Ions, those are pretty awesome. But wait, they also throw some half naked chicks around, put them both in a race car and then sue everyone to sell some cheaply made piece of junk for $1000.

Bitter? Perhaps a little. I'd like to take a 'shocker' to some of those guys though..

Sigh. I just got done looking at some X-Mag pictures again. SIGH.

Take the 'shocker' to some of those guys...ehh?

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Shocker-Poster-C12009849.jpeg

God...can't you guys/ladies ever get over the whole SP thing?

They make a good gun, thats why it sells.

They patented everything, it was a genius business move.

Youngblood does the same thing every year, I don't see you all ragging on him.

[11 Bravo]

If you like the 07 shocker check this out:
http://www.firstcallpaintball.com/images/large/products/14-1-rlegion.jpg
THE RUSSIAN LEGION SHOCKER this gun is so sweet. Way better than 06'. :cheers:

That is one of the ugliest things Ive ever seen. :wow:

[SnatchForFree]

Take the 'shocker' to some of those guys...ehh?

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Shocker-Poster-C12009849.jpeg

God...can't you guys/ladies ever get over the whole SP thing?

They make a good gun, thats why it sells.

They patented everything, it was a genius business move.

Youngblood does the same thing every year, I don't see you all ragging on him.

No they make a crappy gun but advertise good. All the kiddies want to be like dynasty and all the new people in the sport the first company they hear about is smart parts. And I'm nnot even gonna get started on the whole patent thing.

[neppo1345]

No they make a crappy gun but advertise good. All the kiddies want to be like dynasty and all the new people in the sport the first company they hear about is smart parts. And I'm nnot even gonna get started on the whole patent thing.

There sure are a lot of people who shoot those "crappy" guns.

If you can give me five good -justified- reasons why the shocker is so insuperior to other high end electronic marker., I'll admit that smart parts is an evil company, and their products are garbage.

[kenndogg]

at least they're actively out there promoting something "new." Tell me what has AGD done in the last two years? Nothing.

Personally I'm excited that I can get an 05 vision sft shocker new for only 550 bones. Gotta love those yearly updates. :clap:

[neppo1345]

at least they're actively out there promoting something "new." Tell me what has AGD done in the last two years? Nothing.

Personally I'm excited that I can get an 05 vision sft shocker new for only 550 bones. Gotta love those yearly updates. :clap:

NO...this is NOT a smart parts versus AGD thread.

AGD is doing their own thing. let them be.

[Shirow]

Take the 'shocker' to some of those guys...ehh?

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Shocker-Poster-C12009849.jpeg

God...can't you guys/ladies ever get over the whole SP thing?

They make a good gun, thats why it sells.

They patented everything, it was a genius business move.

Youngblood does the same thing every year, I don't see you all ragging on him.

There's nothing to 'get over' - it's not like they made a mistake to be forgiven.

I'm not saying their products are complete garbage - they're not. Why are they in the business though? For absolutely no reason other than financial gain. How anyone can have respect for a company like that is just beyond me, personally.

I mean, let's compare it to AGD since we're sitting here in the AO forums. The patent thing is not a genius business move, it's an obnoxious practice that is, unfortunately, on the rise - make money and attempt to stifle competition by getting issued broad patents that are really beyond the scope of what patents are designed to do.

If they really make a wonderful product, they wouldn't have felt the need to sue everyone around them. Can you see AGD doing something like that? Or AKA? Or hell, any other respectable paintball company?

Let's look at some of their innovations. An undeniably, cheaply built electronic marker in a fancy box with interchangable body sleeves for kids that just HAVE to have a red gun? Sorry, but that just doesn't do it for me. Why do people buy Ions? Because they are cheap, and they perform the minimum duties you require from a gun of that type. That's not innovation. Good marketing? Sure. Most 17 year olds will buy anything with a half naked chick on it that's spread across 3 pages of every magazine.

Ask yourself this:

Why do people buy automags? Is it the price, the advertising or the AGD website? No, it's because anyone that has any understanding or appreciation for engineering understands the quality of the product and the talent of the people that designed it.
Why do people buy Ions? Is it the price, the advertising or the SP website? It's one of the three. Nobody buys an Ion because it's a wonderfully engineered marker by a company headed by a personable guy with great engineering skills.

I'm not denying their ability to market well to their target demographic. That's never been in question. Does it make them a house of innovation and quality? No. There isn't a single SP marker that I have ever desired to own, even before this whole thing - they are all flash, bikinis and quick words.

The difference between AGD (of old, anyway) and SP is this:

I can see Tom and pals coming to work and slaving away over new ideas for the love of the sport and to be able to share their creations with other fans.

I see SP people coming, sitting in their cubes and trying to figure out a way to repackage the same gun for 07 by making it a different color and getting a new chick to take her clothes off for it.

Bear in mind that this is a subjective thing. Some people might respect that.

To me, I have no interest in buying a product from people that produce it for NO OTHER REASON than to generate revenue. Those types of companies don't have you or me in mind, they have your money in mind. They typically aren't getting it by being the best, they are getting it by trying to push other people out and convincing the public to buy their product through garbage advertising.

I don't think SP is the only company around to act this way, but they are definitely the top of a filthy pile.

Bear in mind I'm an opinionated :cuss: and you are perfectly free to insult and disregard anything I say. Sorry, but I just can't get excited over somebody posting information on a new Shocker at AO.

[lufkom]

screw smart parts....so wut agd hasnt come out with a new gun in a while. ive seen mags way faster then any shocker. not as light but still just lift some wieghts and ul be fine :]

[SR_matt]

There sure are a lot of people who shoot those "crappy" guns.

If you can give me five good -justified- reasons why the shocker is so insuperior to other high end electronic marker., I'll admit that smart parts is an evil company, and their products are garbage.

1-metal quality-crapy and inconsistant, resulting in crapy inconsistant anos
2-the guns didnt coem standard with eyes until what this year?
3-poor efficenty
4-spool valve guns always have problems with leaks
5-even members of dynasty said the sp guns they were shooting were turds and it is a fact they had to have multiple guns per player because they broke so much paint and malfunctioned so often they couldnt use teh same gun in mreo than 1 game befoer it needed to be fixed or cleaned.

so SP= nazis and their stuff is garbage :rolleyes:

but any way i will admit the ions can be good guns... once u have very few to no stock parts any more.
-matt

[neppo1345]

screw smart parts....so wut agd hasnt come out with a new gun in a while. ive seen mags way faster then any shocker. not as light but still just lift some wieghts and ul be fine :]

Easy Response: Go back to PBN.

Mature Response: Please try to broaden your vocabularly, you could have used much more descriptive language than "screw smart parts". Also, try to use actual words while in an argument. If you still choose to use 'english' in that manner PbNation may be better suited for your posting needs.

Sincerely,

Tim Britt

Edited to be mature.

[SR_matt]

why does everyone have to just come back with immature resonces like "STFU" or "go back to pbn" if you are going to argue any thing come back with facts or at least personal experances (which hopefuly are facts but probably will be argued against unless you han document what happens).

but seriously if anyone wants to argue be mature about it for goodness sake

-matt

[Shirow]

That is one of the ugliest things Ive ever seen. :wow:

Looks like it would be fun to clean paint out of.

[kenndogg]

1-metal quality-crapy and inconsistant, resulting in crapy inconsistant anos
2-the guns didnt coem standard with eyes until what this year?
3-poor efficenty
4-spool valve guns always have problems with leaks
5-even members of dynasty said the sp guns they were shooting were turds and it is a fact they had to have multiple guns per player because they broke so much paint and malfunctioned so often they couldnt use teh same gun in mreo than 1 game befoer it needed to be fixed or cleaned.

so SP= nazis and their stuff is garbage :rolleyes:

but any way i will admit the ions can be good guns... once u have very few to no stock parts any more.
-matt

1.SP touted a higher quality aluminum with the NXT models
2.should of been a given on the older models, actually I don't really see places that sell nonvisioned shockers anymore.
3.isn't any worse than dye's dm guns
4.properly lubing your equipment prevents this
5.don't really like dynasty...so the more misfortunes that comes their way, the better. :tard:

[neppo1345]

There's nothing to 'get over' - it's not like they made a mistake to be forgiven.

I'm not saying their products are complete garbage - they're not. Why are they in the business though? For absolutely no reason other than financial gain. How anyone can have respect for a company like that is just beyond me, personally.

I mean, let's compare it to AGD since we're sitting here in the AO forums. The patent thing is not a genius business move, it's an obnoxious practice that is, unfortunately, on the rise - make money and attempt to stifle competition by getting issued broad patents that are really beyond the scope of what patents are designed to do.

If they really make a wonderful product, they wouldn't have felt the need to sue everyone around them. Can you see AGD doing something like that? Or AKA? Or hell, any other respectable paintball company?

Let's look at some of their innovations. An undeniably, cheaply built electronic marker in a fancy box with interchangable body sleeves for kids that just HAVE to have a red gun? Sorry, but that just doesn't do it for me. Why do people buy Ions? Because they are cheap, and they perform the minimum duties you require from a gun of that type. That's not innovation. Good marketing? Sure. Most 17 year olds will buy anything with a half naked chick on it that's spread across 3 pages of every magazine.

Ask yourself this:

Why do people buy automags? Is it the price, the advertising or the AGD website? No, it's because anyone that has any understanding or appreciation for engineering understands the quality of the product and the talent of the people that designed it.
Why do people buy Ions? Is it the price, the advertising or the SP website? It's one of the three. Nobody buys an Ion because it's a wonderfully engineered marker by a company headed by a personable guy with great engineering skills.

I'm not denying their ability to market well to their target demographic. That's never been in question. Does it make them a house of innovation and quality? No. There isn't a single SP marker that I have ever desired to own, even before this whole thing - they are all flash, bikinis and quick words.

The difference between AGD (of old, anyway) and SP is this:

I can see Tom and pals coming to work and slaving away over new ideas for the love of the sport and to be able to share their creations with other fans.

I see SP people coming, sitting in their cubes and trying to figure out a way to repackage the same gun for 07 by making it a different color and getting a new chick to take her clothes off for it.

Bear in mind that this is a subjective thing. Some people might respect that.

To me, I have no interest in buying a product from people that produce it for NO OTHER REASON than to generate revenue. Those types of companies don't have you or me in mind, they have your money in mind. They typically aren't getting it by being the best, they are getting it by trying to push other people out and convincing the public to buy their product through garbage advertising.

I don't think SP is the only company around to act this way, but they are definitely the top of a filthy pile.

Bear in mind I'm an opinionated :cuss: and you are perfectly free to insult and disregard anything I say. Sorry, but I just can't get excited over somebody posting information on a new Shocker at AO.

Yes, they are in business to make money. Who isn't?

Yes, their advertising is amazing (Sex Sells). However, I can go back to paintball magazines from the late 90's and see girls half naked with a gun...most of those companies aren't around anymore. So SP must be doing something better than advertising.

Yeah, they might not come out with the newest technical innovations every year...but who does? The ion is amazing for what is. Simplicity. I also happen to know that there are some new technical innovations coming out for the ion, improving it to the point to where a friend put down his ego for one.

SP started out just like every other paintball company, including AGD. Making improvements for the love of the sport. They grew, and once you get so big, you have to start to act as a business. AGD would probably be the same way had it not been for Tom's morals (opposition to high ROF's and the likes (Tom...correct me if I'm wrong)).

You're correct, people do buy mags because of their quality, I won't deny that. They're the highest quality guns still available. It's like comparing a U.S. sniper rifle to an AK 47. They both kill people, neither necessarily does it better, but one is cheaper. Which one do you see more of around the world? The people who know guns take the Sniper Rifle (mag), those who want simply get the job done get an AK (Ion).

We're all opinionated. I won't attack your beliefs, only give you mine so you can see where I'm coming from.

-Tim

[BigEvil]

Kudos to them for 'freshening up' the product. Im not a huge SP fan at all, but they know how to move product.

Alot of people have been *****ing that AGD do the exact same thing with the Emag - refine it. While its not exactly the next step up in technology, it is enough to make people want them.

[SR_matt]

You're correct, people do buy mags because of their quality, I won't deny that. They're the highest quality guns still available. It's like comparing a U.S. sniper rifle to an AK 47. They both kill people, neither necessarily does it better, but one is cheaper. Which one do you see more of around the world? The people who know guns take the Sniper Rifle (mag), those who want simply get the job done get an AK (Ion).

We're all opinionated. I won't attack your beliefs, only give you mine so you can see where I'm coming from.

-Tim

no the ion is more comperable to an m16, finiky at times, made half form plastic, many versions that are not really different at all, it can do its job but its not a tank. an ak 47 is more like a tipman, u can put it through any thing and it will work just like an ak 47.
-matt

[neppo1345]

1-metal quality-crapy and inconsistant, resulting in crapy inconsistant anos - Bad batches happen.
2-the guns didnt coem standard with eyes until what this year? - What gun did?
3-poor efficenty - I give you the mag.
4-spool valve guns always have problems with leaks - 90% of guns on the market.
5-even members of dynasty said the sp guns they were shooting were turds and it is a fact they had to have multiple guns per player because they broke so much paint and malfunctioned so often they couldnt use teh same gun in mreo than 1 game befoer it needed to be fixed or cleaned. - I don't know anyone on dynasty...do you?

so SP= nazis and their stuff is garbage :rolleyes:

but any way i will admit the ions can be good guns... once u have very few to no stock parts any more.
-matt

Fixed

[SR_matt]

no nto bad batches that are random, i used to work witha guy that was a certified tech and had been around paintball for over 10 years. SP at least used to get AL from where ever was cheapest and what ever alloy they could get. hence why there were bad batches.

most e-guns have come standard with eyes for 2 years now

ok whoppie mags are around the same efficenty u wanted reasons teh shockers were bad, and also shockers run at half the psi as mags (dont start the LP is less efficent BS my friend has droped his old ST hookup cocker to 70 psi in the resevoir and not lost efficenty)

90% of guns have leaks commonly? really, the only guns on my team that have leaked in teh last 2 years were the spoolers (and my team mates and i have had cockers, angels, mags, phantoms, spyders, a pgp, sniper 2, timmies, trixies and shockers)

i dont know dynasty but i worked with and still see a friend that palys on mantis factory and i know a few people that write articles and take pics for many pb mags that have talked to and play with dynasty.

-matt

[grEnAlEins]

Alot of you guys badmouth shockers, Why? I own one and like it well enough. It has never given me any major trouble, it just needs alot of lube and even more air :p Throw in a new bolt kit and they are darn nice. That said, I do like other guns better :argh: The only thing nice about the NXT shockers is the break beam eyes. IMHO it is not worth buying a new gun just for that though, so I'll keep my "old school" ( :rofl: ) bounce beam shocker.

[neppo1345]

no nto bad batches that are random, i used to work witha guy that was a certified tech and had been around paintball for over 10 years. SP at least used to get AL from where ever was cheapest and what ever alloy they could get. hence why there were bad batches. - Once again, bad batches happen. You can't tell what will happen to anno after three months of use.

most e-guns have come standard with eyes for 2 years now - So have shockers. Yeah, you could get a cheap one without them, all that did was give performance to people who couldn't afford it. That cheaper niche was filled by the ion, so why make them optional anymore?

ok whoppie mags are around the same efficenty u wanted reasons teh shockers were bad, and also shockers run at half the psi as mags (dont start the LP is less efficent BS my friend has droped his old ST hookup cocker to 70 psi in the resevoir and not lost efficenty) Your point?

90% of guns have leaks commonly? really, the only guns on my team that have leaked in teh last 2 years were the spoolers (and my team mates and i have had cockers, angels, mags, phantoms, spyders, a pgp, sniper 2, timmies, trixies and shockers) - I never said that all spoolers leak, I was stating that 90% of the guns on the market are spoolers, and according to you, leak.

i dont know dynasty but i worked with and still see a friend that palys on mantis factory and i know a few people that write articles and take pics for many pb mags that have talked to and play with dynasty. - Any gun that has that amount of paint out through it on a weekly basis will break down. It's a fact of life, if you shoot 8,000 + balls a week, and don't maintain your marker, it'll break.

-matt

k

[mag_lover05]

does anyone else LOL over the fact that the 200 dollor ion has break beam eyes and is more efficient, yet costs less then used shockers?! and now that all the bugs are worked out ions are very nice guns. and im not goin to say "nice for the price" cuz they would still be nice if they cost more than they do... so why is shocker just now "catching up"

[wjr]

I never said that all spoolers leak, I was stating that 90% of the guns on the market are spoolers, and according to you, leak.

Are you sure about that? It seems like most guns use a poppet type valve.

To me there is nothing wrong with the shocker. SP may have "ruined" several companies, but who wouldn't have? I don't think it's fair to be angry at a company for trying to make money.

[neppo1345]

Are you sure about that? It seems like most guns use a poppet type valve.

To me there is nothing wrong with the shocker. SP may have "ruined" several companies, but who wouldn't have? I don't think it's fair to be angry at a company for trying to make money.

I was referring to guns that use any spool valve at all. Even if the main valve is a poppet.

[Shirow]

Yes, they are in business to make money. Who isn't?

Yes, their advertising is amazing (Sex Sells). However, I can go back to paintball magazines from the late 90's and see girls half naked with a gun...most of those companies aren't around anymore. So SP must be doing something better than advertising.

Yeah, they might not come out with the newest technical innovations every year...but who does? The ion is amazing for what is. Simplicity. I also happen to know that there are some new technical innovations coming out for the ion, improving it to the point to where a friend put down his ego for one.

SP started out just like every other paintball company, including AGD. Making improvements for the love of the sport. They grew, and once you get so big, you have to start to act as a business. AGD would probably be the same way had it not been for Tom's morals (opposition to high ROF's and the likes (Tom...correct me if I'm wrong)).

You're correct, people do buy mags because of their quality, I won't deny that. They're the highest quality guns still available. It's like comparing a U.S. sniper rifle to an AK 47. They both kill people, neither necessarily does it better, but one is cheaper. Which one do you see more of around the world? The people who know guns take the Sniper Rifle (mag), those who want simply get the job done get an AK (Ion).

We're all opinionated. I won't attack your beliefs, only give you mine so you can see where I'm coming from.

-Tim

Right, but it's the way you make money. Granted, I will never get over the whole patent fiasco, and that will permanently keep SP somewhere below my dirty laundry on the list of things I like, but there are moral companies that make money with good product and then the rest, I guess.

You can act as a good business or a bad one. Unfortunately, the bad ones typically succeed.

I will be honest and say that if the Shocker had AKA written on it instead of SP, I probably wouldn't be particularly opposed to info about it. I don't think I'd really be all that into it, but I'd have a different expectation of it.

[Shirow]

Are you sure about that? It seems like most guns use a poppet type valve.

To me there is nothing wrong with the shocker. SP may have "ruined" several companies, but who wouldn't have? I don't think it's fair to be angry at a company for trying to make money.

It's so easy to say that when it's had zero effect on you. Try to put yourself in their shoes. You create a wonderful product, some :cuss: comes along, starts throwing some garbage patent around and puts you out of business.

Would you pat them on the back and say 'I can't be mad, you're just trying to make money!'

There are legitimate, moral ways to make money and then there's the sleazy, get rich quick, morally corrupt ways to make money. Some businesses don't embrace both sides.

I mean, this is how they win. They do something that is undeniably awful, IMO, and then they get the community to believe it's just a cost of doing business. If more people would be opposed to this kind of behavior, it would stop. Unfortunately, most people want the new 07 model of whatever :)

[neppo1345]

Right, but it's the way you make money. Granted, I will never get over the whole patent fiasco, and that will permanently keep SP somewhere below my dirty laundry on the list of things I like, but there are moral companies that make money with good product and then the rest, I guess.

You can act as a good business or a bad one. Unfortunately, the bad ones typically succeed.

I will be honest and say that if the Shocker had AKA written on it instead of SP, I probably wouldn't be particularly opposed to info about it. I don't think I'd really be all that into it, but I'd have a different expectation of it.

Oh yeah, an honest question...how much does SP actually make from other companies using their patents? How much do DYE and other companies have to pay them? Just wondering, I don't really know all that much about IP rights.

[Marroonblooded]

Looks like it would be fun to clean paint out of.


No lie there, I can't stand the thought of ellusive paint... that gun would be a nightmare... :tard:


does anyone else LOL over the fact that the 200 dollor ion has break beam eyes and is more efficient, yet costs less then used shockers?! and now that all the bugs are worked out ions are very nice guns. and im not goin to say "nice for the price" cuz they would still be nice if they cost more than they do... so why is shocker just now "catching up"

totally agree except that IMO the ion as fugly, like the single barrel design but man, it is ugly... so maybe you pay more just for the cooler looking shocker (looks good to me), but then again not completly unlike what I fell in love with years ago, automags.

But still would not choose one over a mag, I am so in love my classic I can't get over it... and I am not a fan of excessive ROF anywho (somewhere btwn 6 and 9 is all I will ever need)

[minimag03]

Wow, I got to hand it to SP, they pulled it off. Does anyone know if the board is different now?

[Lohman446]

I mean, this is how they win. They do something that is undeniably awful, IMO, and then they get the community to believe it's just a cost of doing business. If more people would be opposed to this kind of behavior, it would stop. Unfortunately, most people want the new 07 model of whatever :)

I don't see the protection of intellectual property rights as "undeniably awful".

[Shirow]

I don't see the protection of intellectual property rights as "undeniably awful".

Neither do I. What I do see as awful is obtaining a broad patent that covers something that (IMO) should not really be patentable in the first place, then waiting for an opportune time to suddenly decide you want to start 'protecting' it in order to cash in.

If they wanted to 'protect their IP' they would have done it the instant someone 'violated' their patent. Instead, they waited to maximize the amount of money they could make out of it.

What PTP did to DW over the hAIR trigger? That's protection of IP. If they had waited until he had 100,000 of them made and sold to protect it, that's a little different.

It is, of course, a subjective thing - some people think that the patent pirates going around trying to strong arm companies into settling out of court for 200k because it's cheaper than spending 2mil fighting the court case are legitimate businesspeople. I personally think they are the scum of the earth.

[SCpoloRicker]

http://www.maj.com/gallery/mjjordan/TFshops/godwin.jpg

[13thlegionnaireCapt]

the board is still the "NERVE RAMPING BOARD"...SO ATLEAST THE AFTERMARKETCOMPANIES STILL HAVE A SHOT AT SOME BOARD UPGRADES....they could have included the blackheart , but want the upgrade dollars too...

[Lenny]

If you like the 07 shocker check this out:
http://www.firstcallpaintball.com/images/large/products/14-1-rlegion.jpg
THE RUSSIAN LEGION SHOCKER this gun is so sweet. Way better than 06'. :cheers:
No, you mean exactly the same as the '06 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '05 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '04 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '03 Shocker, right?

Please stop posting pics of every gun you talk about, we all know what they look like.

And please stop making outrageously retarded posts. Sit back and read for a while, and please, only post a response if you know your response is correct. Oh, and use the search button to answer your questions before posting a thread about them. It would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[SCpoloRicker]

And please stop making outrageously retarded posts. Sit back and read for a while, and please, only post a response if you know your response is correct. Oh, and use the search button to answer your questions before posting a thread about them. It would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/78/owlyarly4rd.jpg

[slateman]

No, you mean exactly the same as the '06 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '05 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '04 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '03 Shocker, right?

Please stop posting pics of every gun you talk about, we all know what they look like.

And please stop making outrageously retarded posts. Sit back and read for a while, and please, only post a response if you know your response is correct. Oh, and use the search button to answer your questions before posting a thread about them. It would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
Easy tiger. I believe he was just commenting on its looks. Frankly, I've never seen it, so I'm glad he posted it

[grEnAlEins]

No, you mean exactly the same as the '06 Shocker
Not really Lenny. SP did fix the three biggest problems...
1) Break Beam Eyes in E/NXT Shockers (nice)
2) New frames and triggers (no more insane trigger slop with the stock trigger {I would hope :p })
3) Better bolt kit (having the SP Turbocharger stock would make shelling out the cash for an evolve or new designz kit a bit tougher to do)

There is nothing wrong with the nerve boards. I like my Pred better, but it was not a bad board. The barrels are fine too. I think the new shocker would be darn appealing if I was in the market for a new gun. I am not about to buy one, but if I were, I would seriously consider one of these new shockers.

Now I should admit that I do shoot a Shocker now, and am NOT about to even consider buying one of the new ones. The only thing I want to see is TAG start making SFT style eyes again. Even that is not truely needed. And on another positive, the resale value of the 03-06 shockers is gonna shoot down and they will be dirty cheap. Sweet deal if you are looking for a new toy.

EDIT: and good point bout the pics in every other post :spit_take

[Lenny]

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/78/owlyarly4rd.jpg
Lol. I friggin' love those owls! But then... I'm not sure why... O RLENTE! being my favorite.


Easy tiger. I believe he was just commenting on its looks. Frankly, I've never seen it, so I'm glad he posted it
Ok, maybe this one was a poor example, but in the past he has posted pic's of Spyders, Karni's, etc. and damn near everyone knows what they all look like. It just takes up thread space and makes me feel less intelligent, like I have to be shown everything to understand what he's talking about. Like my 8 years playing count for nothing.


Not really Lenny. SP did fix the three biggest problems...
1) Break Beam Eyes in E/NXT Shockers (nice)
2) New frames and triggers (no more insane trigger slop with the stock trigger {I would hope :p })
3) Better bolt kit (having the SP Turbocharger stock would make shelling out the cash for an evolve or new designz kit a bit tougher to do)

There is nothing wrong with the nerve boards. I like my Pred better, but it was not a bad board. The barrels are fine too. I think the new shocker would be darn appealing if I was in the market for a new gun. I am not about to buy one, but if I were, I would seriously consider one of these new shockers.

Now I should admit that I do shoot a Shocker now, and am NOT about to even consider buying one of the new ones. The only thing I want to see is TAG start making SFT style eyes again. Even that is not truely needed. And on another positive, the resale value of the 03-06 shockers is gonna shoot down and they will be dirty cheap. Sweet deal if you are looking for a new toy.

EDIT: and good point bout the pics in every other post :spit_take
I understand what you're saying, but it is the exact same gun. I don't count improvements high enough to call something "new" based soley upon them. It's like the DM/PM series. The DMC has numorous improvments over, say, a DM3; but is it a new gun? No. It's just a modified version. Just because they add some modifications and add some more words to the title ("Russion Legion") does not make it a new gun.

And I do not doubt it is a good gun and, in some respects, better than the original Shocker. I too own an '03 style Shocker and it is a GREAT gun and I really do enjoy it. It's fast, light accurate, etc. So really, I do completely understand your points.

Also note he said "much better than the '06 Shocker," which is the exact same as every Shocker model produced by SP since '03.

And thanks about the pic comment :)

[grEnAlEins]

Lol. I friggin' love those owls! But then... I'm not sure why... O RLENTE! being my favorite.

I understand what you're saying, but it is the exact same gun. I don't count improvements high enough to call something "new" based soley upon them. It's like the DM/PM series. The DMC has numorous improvments over, say, a DM3; but is it a new gun? No. It's just a modified version. Just because they add some modifications and add some more words to the title ("Russion Legion") does not make it a new gun.
Lenny, that O RLYMENTE owl is my favorite too. In fact, it was my facebook pic for a long while.

I guess your right about it just being improved. In fact now that I think about it, I cannot believe it has taken them (SP I mean) four years to do this :rolleyes:

[wjr]

Off topic.. but where did the owls come from? What do they mean?

[grEnAlEins]

Off topic.. but where did the owls come from? What do they mean?
From www.orlyowl.com/
they mean http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=o+rly

[SpecialBlend2786]

I like the look of the stock NXT alot.

[SCpoloRicker]

From www.orlyowl.com/
they mean http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=o+rly

Not all of them. :ninja:

[bunny5]

http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/38000/shocker07bengal.jpg

Thought I'd livin' up the thread :D

[neppo1345]

http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/38000/shocker07bengal.jpg

Thought I'd livin' up the thread :D

God i hate the bengals.

But sadly, their colors look good.