AO: Help me design a great gaming pc

[Steelrat]

Well, it's about time for my system to be retired. Pentium 4 2.44 with 512 megs of ram and a 128 meg video card just ain't cutting it anymore. I was looking at the big-name sellers (alienware, dell, etc etc) as well as some of the niche players (AAC, Falcon, Overdrive, etc etc) and I've decided that maybe building my own would save me some serious cash (the systems were heading over $5000 WITHOUT a monitor, yikes).

So, the challenge is (since I have never put a machine together) to decide what parts to get. From what I've read, the intel core duos are the way to go, as is an sli card setup. So, given a liberal budget (figure one step down from top end), can you tell me what parts I would want to buy for a rig, and how much it might cost? I'm talking soup to nuts here. If you think it needs a cooling system, add one in. I want to overclock (though I haven't the foggiest how to do it) so keep that in mind.

Thanks AO, lets see what you can do!

EDIT: Just as information, my current play list is BF2/BF2142, Dawn of War, and Company of Heros.

EDIT: IF I END UP BUILDING A SYSTEM YOU SUGGEST, I WILL SEND YOU A NICE BLACK COCKER-THREADED ULTRALIGHT BARREL AS A WAY OF SAYING "THANKS" Remember, I know NOTHING of what brand is best for each component, so specific component recommedations are a must.

[FlawleZ]

Well, it's about time for my system to be retired. Pentium 4 2.44 with 512 megs of ram and a 128 meg video card just ain't cutting it anymore. I was looking at the big-name sellers (alienware, dell, etc etc) as well as some of the niche players (AAC, Falcon, Overdrive, etc etc) and I've decided that maybe building my own would save me some serious cash (the systems were heading over $5000 WITHOUT a monitor, yikes).

So, the challenge is (since I have never put a machine together) to decide what parts to get. From what I've read, the intel core duos are the way to go, as is an sli card setup. So, given a liberal budget (figure one step down from top end), can you tell me what parts I would want to buy for a rig, and how much it might cost? I'm talking soup to nuts here. If you think it needs a cooling system, add one in. I want to overclock (though I haven't the foggiest how to do it) so keep that in mind.

Thanks AO, lets see what you can do!

EDIT: Just as information, my current play list is BF2/BF2142, Dawn of War, and Company of Heros.


Hrm. You have much to learn. First of all, you need to establish a set budget (if it even matters). Secondly, you might want to make sure you know how to build a computer since you said you haven't built one before.

With all the new hardware out, your most pivotal point from the "gaming" aspect, will be your video card. What kind of gaming are you referring to? If you want what's best, I'd reccommend an Nvidia 7950 GX2 in SLI. Granted, its very expensive.

Something else you should consider. We're looking at Microsoft's Vista being standard on current machines in less than a year. With Vista comes DX10. There are 0 video cards that are able to use DX10. Logically, if you can hold out for a little while, you should wait until the new Geforce 8 series and the new ATI X whatever series.

Some forums that might help:

Guru3D (http://www.guru3d.com)
DevHardware (http://forums.devhardware.com)


*EDIT* Doh! I didn't even notice your current selection of games. It appears you like first person shooters. Those games can be played on maximum settings with all the eye candy at butter smooth rates with many different systems. BF2 is probably the most taxing of the group, but even that game can be handled with "budget" gaming rigs.

[FlawleZ]

I realize now that my post above really focuses on the video card aspect (my specialty). Here's a short list of recommendations on the rest of your peripherals.

Mobo: Several options. Do your research and purchase a motherboard that will support your desired CPU, RAM, HD and Optical Drives, and has the options such as overclocking that you desire. Asus, MSI, and DFI are several good manufactures to list just a few.

HD: Bare minimum is a 7200 rpm. You might consider a 10,000 rpm from WD. 8 MB buffer seems to be standard. Size is up to your own personal needs.

CPU: Intels Core Duo seems to be quite the rave for now. They're actually fairly efficent unlike Intel's history of playing the numbers game. AMD's FX line of chips are VERY fast. If you're not aware of the differences between AMD and Intel's CPUs, don't be fooled by the processor speeds alone.

RAM: 2 GB is pretty much the standard for high performance gaming rigs. As time progresses, software will hog more and more system memory. OCZ, Patriot, Corsair, and Crucial all make quality products that usually overclock well.

Sound: Audigy. Period. ;) I think the Audigy 2 is the latest?

Optical Drives: DVD+R's are pretty standard now. Blu Ray is just around the corner from being mainstream.

PSU: Definitely controversial. You can't go wrong with an OCZ, Thermaltake, or Mushkin. Several options depending on the rest of your system. One of the last things you should take care of.

Cooling: A properly setup air cooled system is MORE than efficient for 99% of all computers. EVEN for overclocking. A good case is the foundation for your cooling system.

Case: Just personal preference. You will however want to pick up a well designed case for cooling so that sufficient air flow will reach your PC. MANY options here.



Hope this helps some and feel free to ask anything specific and I'll try my best to help.

[Steelrat]

Well, I know how to swap out parts in a PC, so I figure it can't be really too difficult to plug part A into slot B. I'm not 100% on getting the software setup, but I'd imagine that you just put it all together, load the OS, then load the specific drivers. It's overclocking that I'm not 100% on, unless there is some sort of utility for doing it.

My current system has lasted about 4 years, which aint bad, so I'd like to get a powerful enough system that it would last a few years. That probably means the 6700 core duo, 2 gigs of 1066 ram, 2 512 meg graphics cards in an SLI/Crossfire setup, etc etc. I was kinda hoping for specific part recommendations, like "ASUS NXXXX motherboard, 2 gigs Corsair XXXX ram" and so on.

As for setting a budget, I'd like to keep it to around $2000 or so, but I can go over if needed. I don't need everything to be top of the line, but close to top of the line is good.

Appearance items (lights, clear windows) mean very little to me. I'm more concerned with performance than looks.

Hope that helps narrow it down a bit.

[Glickman]

Well, I know how to swap out parts in a PC, so I figure it can't be really too difficult to plug part A into slot B. I'm not 100% on getting the software setup, but I'd imagine that you just put it all together, load the OS, then load the specific drivers. It's overclocking that I'm not 100% on, unless there is some sort of utility for doing it.

My current system has lasted about 4 years, which aint bad, so I'd like to get a powerful enough system that it would last a few years. That probably means the 6700 core duo, 2 gigs of 1066 ram, 2 512 meg graphics cards in an SLI/Crossfire setup, etc etc. I was kinda hoping for specific part recommendations, like "ASUS NXXXX motherboard, 2 gigs Corsair XXXX ram" and so on.

As for setting a budget, I'd like to keep it to around $2000 or so, but I can go over if needed. I don't need everything to be top of the line, but close to top of the line is good.

Appearance items (lights, clear windows) mean very little to me. I'm more concerned with performance than looks.

Hope that helps narrow it down a bit.


are you rendering insane amounts?
if not, dont bother with sli or crossfire and just head over for a single card setup

Personally i would recommend a XFX like this one:
XFX PVT71JYHE9 GeForce 7950GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP ExTreme
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-150-189-02.JPG
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150189

[Steelrat]

My machine is purely for web-surfing and gaming, thats it. I'm not sure what you mean by "rendering" as I thought that games required some rendering. In the past, I've bought on the tech curve, and as a result my systems have been outdated pretty quickly. On BF2 i have it set at the lowest setting, and still my fps would make anyone cry. I still rock though :shooting: Thats why I want to be AHEAD of the curve, and buy a machine that might be overkill right now with what I play, but will still handle stuff well a few years out.

I'm not opposed to a single 512 MB card, but I don't want to stick myself in a dead-end power-wise.

[kruger]

I have a dual card set up that I just built about six months ago. It is ancient tech now.

Here are a coupla bullets for you:

If you go Dual card, then buy the biggest PS that you can afford that is designed for Dual vid. cards.

One 7950 card will out perform two 7800 card in SLI.

The hardware is the easy part, as you say, just plug slot A into socket A, the hard part is the software and drivers, they can be a pain in the rear.

For motherboard selection, go to the manufacturers web site and check in the forums. They ususally have sections dedicated to trouble shooting the boards. You can get a good feel for what people have had trouble with and what they did to fix them. You can save yourself a lot of headaches just by cruisin' thru other peoples problems. Personally, I like the Asus boards, but to each his own.

Overclocking is not really necessary in todays processors. The ability is there, but with the clock speeds that are availble, why do it? Tweaking the speeds for optimum is a good thing, but overclocking can be dangerous.

Cooling is a major concern in todays machines. Look for a case that will allow you to have good airflow thru it. as stated above, there are many out there, again, read reviews on the cases to see what real world results people have. More fans are not necessrily better, just louder. And, you have to take the noise factor into account also. Think about listening to that box O' fans day in and day out. A coupla big fans are better than a bunch of little fans.

Dont build a computer for upgradability, you never do it. Buy the best, latest that you can afford and it will last you a long time.

The new Vista and DX10 are going to render your present computer (as far as games are concerned) usless. DX10 is NOT backwards compatible. But, as also stated before, the game programers have not started to impliment DX10 into their software yet. So, the games that are out now will smoke on a new system. You will have to get a DX10 compatible Vid card when you want to upgrade.

Personally, I would hold off on the Blu Ray drives for a while, they are still new and kinda pricey, if you feel that you need on, then you can add it later.

Hardrives are bigger and faster than ever. Buy a Raptor 10k for your Operating system, makes for a faster startup and running. Buy a couple of larger drives for all your other stuff. I recommend that you have one hardrive to install all your games, and games only. Partition it off to make several smaller drives. That way when you have to defrag a drive, it wont take three days to resort thru a tera byte of data.

Def get the Audigy. 5.1 suround sound is plenty. You really dont need the 6.1 or 7.1. It really makes the games come alive.

Get a monitor that has a fast refresh rate. You are playing games and you want your display to refresh as fast as possible. Dont want skewing or tearing of the rendered display. Might miss that crucial head shot in a pinch. If you can, I would recommend a CRT display, not the flatpanel. The reason is because that you can get killer deals on 20 and 21 inch displays right now and they offer outstanding resolutions. THe flat panels are getting better, and I have one. But, to get a great one that is big enough, usually costs some bucks. Price a 20 inch panel, then price a 21 inch CRT.

All of these suggestions are geared toward the gamming machine and any machine that is a good gamer will literaly fly at most everything else. Hope this helps.

[Glickman]

heres a great setup expecially if you wanna break into overclocking


http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/10/10/cheap_thrills/

its pretty much a E6400 (2.1) overclocked stable to 3.0 and beyond. theres no reason to go beyond 3.0 really. Anyway, i would base your rig off of that article like i did and you wont be sorry

[tribalman]

first off, get a big case. i'm talking a thermaltake armor or a full tower case. see cpu cooler for reason. it's big. it can fit in a lanboy (have it in my second gaming/lan case) but it's a tight fight and wires will sometimes get caught in it.

i'll go through by the specs i would reccomend. they aren't the absoulte best, but it's a few steps above what i have, and my rig is great to my standards.


PSU, if you are going at least 550. if you are going dual 7950's, which i don't reccomend caues the drivers dont work too well and there are serious problems in some games up to and including full system crashes, or even a single 7950 try and find a 600 watt. also, i don't reccomend a modular PSU. it seems like a good idea, but i have more wires now than on the old one i had and it's a bigger pain routing the cables now.

my personal preference on video cards is the evga 7900 gt ko superclocked.

CPU, amd fx 60. you don't really need dual core unless you are doing stuff like gaming AND ripping a cd/dvd/cdr, burning cd/dvd/cdr, or just typically running more than 2 heaving cpu processes. with my xp 3400+ i have no problems running dual monitors along with a game such as fear or half life with full options and other programs like clock (i get lost in games very easily and lose track of time), aim, icq, and itunes. i still get great framerates.

CPU cooler, Zalman CNPS9700 along with a good thermal paste. throw away the stuff they ship you. anything is better than that garbage.

RAM, 2 gigs of Corsair XMS memory with as tight of timings as you can find. try and get 2 sets that are the same timings . mine are close, but not quite the same so i can't OC them and there is a little bit of a drop in performance, barely noticable, but it's not running as fast as if i had the same timings.

sound card, i just use the 5.1 sourround on my MOBO with creative 5.1 speakers and it's great!

speakers: creative's are very good. logictech's are ok. haven't had experiance with any others....yet.

MOBO. ASUS kn8 sli 32 deluxe is good. it's what i use. it's pretty stable if you want to OC, even it's just a bit. if you want to get something else, make sure on both channels it's 16x and 16x. some sli boards will have the main video card running at 16x and the other at 1 or 2x. if you don't wanna SLI get something that is still 16x on the main channel.

cd drives, just use old ones. i'm still using my 8 year old dvd player and cd burner. i reccomend 2 drives. it's just my preferance, up to you.

hdd: see above. if you do want new drives. seagate and western digital are the only way to go. maxtors kind of have a rep of being hit or miss. mine were all misses. seagate and WD are very good.

to me there is no reason to get a PPU(physics processing unit). it's first run hardware, about 3 games use it. not worth it yet.

if you like your CRT keep it. if you get an LCD display get one with at MOST 8ms responce time. you will get wicked image tearing. it's even notice able at 8ms. i say get atleast a 19 inch.

for a first timer, i reccomend not building it on carpet, or you standing on carpet. static is a punk. always touch a peice of the frame of the case before really touching your CPU to install. make sure your hands are clean when installing anything. dust and oil will do the same thing as static. try to avoid touching the pins on the CPU or the contacts on the RAM and video card. spread thermal paste evenly and over the whole CPU. corner to corner. try to tie wires together and route them out of the way of fans and from blocking air flow, good air flow is a must. if the temps get too high you will damage things. i'm kinda tired and very angry (see other post) so if i forget anything, please forgive me. hopefully someone else will fill in any holes and give more insight. GOOD LUCK!! work slowly and carefully and everything should be ok.

[Glickman]

i would definately go core 2 duo. the prices vs the performance you get is definately worth it.

not to mention it being the best chip out there right now as well as still being extremely affordable

[WaffleBaron]

Look for reviews on the motherboard you choose too see if SATA2 is more of a pain than its worth. The extra speed is always nice but not if its problematic or if the cost differential for your drives pushes your price too high (although it shouldn't).

[FlawleZ]

Good advice from everyone so far. Keep in mind you will get better image quality from a NICE CRT than an LCD. LCD is actually inferrior technology. Its just nice to have a small flat panel instead of a bulkty monitor.

[Banshee23]

Ok here we go:

MB: Asus P5B-E - $158 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131070

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 - $220 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004

Memory: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 - $280 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145034

HD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB - $95 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140

Heatsink - Scythe SCNJ-1000 - $40 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185122

Fan for heatsink: Antec 120mm tri speed fan - $14 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835129033

Sound - Use the onboard sound or here's the current top of the line: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic - $107 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102188

CD/DVD - LITE-ON Black 16X DVD+R - $33 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106019

PSU: - OCZ GameXStream 700W - $160 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341002

Video Card - eVGA GeForce 7950GX2 - $495 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130023

Case - Whatever looks good to you :) My personal favorite manufacturer is Antec: Antec Performance I P180B - $115 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129017

So, approx. $1700 before tax & shipping. You can find a few of these items a little cheaper at various different sites, but for simplicity I just used Newegg. You should be able to overclock the E6400 with this board to 3.2ghz+ fairly easily (You should hit over 3.5 unless you're really unlucky). As an alternative you can get the E6600 for $315 which have 4mb of cache instead of two. Doesn't make much of a real world difference in testing but I'll throw it out there anyway. Unfortunately any video card you buy now will only be midrange at best in another year & a half. DX10 is coming, but if you don't plan on switching to Vista than it's a non-issue as XP won't ever have DX10. Any new games coming out for the foreseeable future except for Halo2 will be backwards compatable with DX9 as they would be excluding 90% of potential buyers if they didn't ;). I wouldn't worry about DX10 for awhile. If you are worried about it than reasonably priced cards should be out by next summer.

You're going to need to buy some Arctic Silver 5 for the heatsink. This isn't an SLI motherboard, for Intel & SLI you would need a Nvidia chipset MB which don't overclock anywhere near what the Intel MB's do right now. And SLI is almost always extreme overkill unless you game on a 24" LCD at native resolution. Core 2 Duo is the way to do right now - they're priced very good & they're much better performers than the AMD chips right now. (I've had AMD for the last four years, but Intel finally came out with something worth buying :( ) They spank the AMD FX chips and are much cheaper to boot... And yes, you're going to want dual core if for nothing else than future apps/games that are optimized for dual threading. For the hard drive, the Seagate 7200.10's are almost as fast as the raptors but cheaper, cooler, & quieter. The Ninja heatsink is just about the best air cooled HS you can buy right now. For the sound, I use onboard because it doesn't matter that much to me (sounds good, not too much of a processing hit). The X-Fi is the latest & greatest card - The Xtrememusic version is the base card. You can get the Platnium version for $30-$50 more, it's the same exact card but comes with a module for the front of your case to plug stuff into. It's convenient but probably not worth the money. The PSU is more than enough for everything in here & is quite popular right now in the gaming world.

Hmmmm I think that's it. :) This is a beast of a PC if you really want to spend this much. It'll last quite a while, you might end up upgrading the vid card in two years if you want to stay at the high end (unfortunately that's how things work in the GPU world). If you're ok with mid-range performance in a few years though you'll be fine.If you have any questions just ask :)

[Steelrat]

Thats exactly what I was looking for, thanks! I'll pour over the list there. That's actually less than I was looking to spend.

Do you just use that silver crud to stick the heatsink right to the processor?

Out of curiosity, why does everyone seem to favor nVidia over ATI?

[FlawleZ]

Thats exactly what I was looking for, thanks! I'll pour over the list there.

Out of curiosity, why does everyone seem to favor nVidia over ATI?

It's just kind of the crowd we have here. There is a HUGE ATI following as well. Also, all the long time 3DFX fans swapped over to Nvidia once they bought 3DFX out. Nvidia tends to have the more powerful card out sooner, while ATI is always playing catchup.

[Steelrat]

So, how exactly does one overclock? Is it in bios, or is there a utility you run?

[Steelrat]

Now I would just need a monitor suggestion. I'm running a 19" gateway I had back from, geez, I can't even remeber when. I used it when Starseige:Tribes first came out, if that means anything to you ;)

I'm thinking LCD, but only because I want something that takes up less space, and I want it to be 20" +.

[FlawleZ]

Thats exactly what I was looking for, thanks! I'll pour over the list there. That's actually less than I was looking to spend.

Do you just use that silver crud to stick the heatsink right to the processor?

Out of curiosity, why does everyone seem to favor nVidia over ATI?


I'm glad you found what you were looking for. But honestly, several of us could have picked out parts for you and tell you what to buy but we didn't. We didn't because we wanted to give you insight and helpful suggestions so that you can make an educated purchase through your own research. Its much more rewarding to build a system that you look into than just some cookie cutter machine someone tells you you should get.

[FlawleZ]

So, how exactly does one overclock? Is it in bios, or is there a utility you run?

Both. But the right way to do it is in the BIOS. Please do some reading here:
www.overclockers.com

[Steelrat]

I'm glad you found what you were looking for. But honestly, several of us could have picked out parts for you and tell you what to buy but we didn't. We didn't because we wanted to give you insight and helpful suggestions so that you can make an educated purchase through your own research. Its much more rewarding to build a system that you look into than just some cookie cutter machine someone tells you you should get.

I didn't intend to denigrate the suggestions you had made. Nor do I intend to purchase exactly what he suggested. But I was looking for a whole-system recommendation to start with, that I could then alter based upon any research I did. Keep in mind I work 60+ hours a week, and have 3 kids, so I don't have too much time to spend sifting through the mountains of information out there ;)

I'm fairly sure I DON'T want the 1gig video cards, as I see an upgrade with DX10 in the future anyways. I like his suggestion on the hard drive, and I had no clue that the nForce chipsets didn't overclock as well as the intel ones. Glickman's post about the 6400 had pretty much made my mind up about getting that chip, anyways.

Will I need to buy some cables too, or do they come with the various components?

[kruger]

While I will agree with most of what has been posted as a suggestion for you, I must offer you some more advice. I also have a P180 Antec case. They are really good cases for the EXPERIENCED builder. You will have some problems dealing with the power supply in this particular case. The power supply has its own little area at the bottom of the case with its own fan. And there lies the problem. The fan is very close to the power supply and leaves very little room for cables. I have a modular power supply and it was a pain in the rear to get the cables so that they did not interfere with the fan. I had to do a little customization on the power supply tunnel to make things work. I love this case, but it can be a pain if you get the wrong Power supply. Also, because of the the layout, you are very cramped if you decide to go the dual Vid card route. Again, it is because of the power supply cables. The second vid. card slot is right above the acess slot for the power supply cables and makes for a very tight fit. It also reduces the amount of airflow across the vid cards. And, like I said, I have a modular PS so I dont have to worry about all the extra cables that I am not using, and it is still very cramped around my bottom Vid. card. With this case, you would have less trouble if you got a modular PS.

[FlawleZ]

I didn't intend to denigrate the suggestions you had made. Nor do I intend to purchase exactly what he suggested. But I was looking for a whole-system recommendation to start with, that I could then alter based upon any research I did. Keep in mind I work 60+ hours a week, and have 3 kids, so I don't have too much time to spend sifting through the mountains of information out there ;)

I'm fairly sure I DON'T want the 1gig video cards, as I see an upgrade with DX10 in the future anyways. I like his suggestion on the hard drive, and I had no clue that the nForce chipsets didn't overclock as well as the intel ones. Glickman's post about the 6400 had pretty much made my mind up about getting that chip, anyways.

Will I need to buy some cables too, or do they come with the various components?


Understandable. Sounds like you've got the foundation for an awesome rig. Beats mine ;).

[Banshee23]

Thats exactly what I was looking for, thanks! I'll pour over the list there. That's actually less than I was looking to spend.

Do you just use that silver crud to stick the heatsink right to the processor?

Out of curiosity, why does everyone seem to favor nVidia over ATI?

No real reason for Nvidia over ATi, the 1900XTX 512mb card from ATI is a great card. It's the fastest single card solution out there right now. But the 7950GX2 is faster in most cases, as it should be since it's two cards sandwiched, not one. The 1900XTX is around $400. Or if you plan on upgrading in a year or so just get a 1900XT (ATI) or 7950GT (Nvidia). Both a little under $300 and work great for current games. They should both handle new games fine too until you decide to switch to a DX10 board.

Yep you use the silver paste between the cpu & heatsink, there's instructions at arcticsilver.com on how to apply it. The heatsink clamps to the MB after you apply the paste, the thermal paste doesn't hold it by itself :) As for an LCD screen Dell just came out with a slimmed down version of their 20" widescreen LCD for under $300. It's a nice monitor.

As for the P180, the PS being under everything doesn't always work great as kruger said. Besides the issue he mentioned I've seen some power supplies with wires that are too short to work in this case. Not sure if the PSU I listed has that problem. Antec makes a bunch of other cases in the traditional style, you just have to pick one. Thermaltake also has some nice cases out there, alot of which are very similar to antec designs :)

Oh, and all the cables you need should come with the components.

[kruger]

I will try to address a coupla things that you mentioned.

The Artic Silver is a heat sink compound. What it does is provide a medium for the heat from your processor to transfer to the heat sink and get it away from the chip. Heat is the major killer of electronic components. It is not a glue and there is a proper way to do it, if you can beleive that :D

Any component or card that you buy will come with their own cables or connectors. The mobo will come with an asortment of cables and connectors that you may or may not use, depending on what your set up is.

As far as monitors go, if you have the room, then I do suggest that you get a CRT, not the flat panel LCD. The CRT's do present a much better display and have a wider range of operation resolutions. And, like I stated before, you can get great deals on 20 and 21 inch displays. 20 and 21 inch LCD's will make you cry as to how much they cost. And they will have an inferior pic quality compared to the CRT, relativly speaking. The LCD is good for most things, but gamming is the true test of a dislpay and a system. And, you are building a game machine? right?

Overclocking is not an exact science. It is a trial and error thing. There are guides on what and how, but no guide that can cover every configuration of system out there. So, check out some of the links that were posted, google for more. The more that you know about overclocking, the better prepared you will be to react WHEN your system crashes, and it will crash trying to find that magic tweak. Heat is the biggest problem with over clocking. The faster you drive a component or system, the more heat is generated. You have to have your cooling ducks in a row if you want to overclock. So, knowing the proper way to apply the Artic Silver has gained a bit in importance now. Evacuating the heat from your case is also is important to overclocking. So the case design has also gained a bit more importance. That also includes the fans that you pick. You can go huge and fast on the fans, but the trade off is noise. Not a problem, but is will bother you over time. There are big, slow fans that move a lot of air, but were designed to be quiet. Look for those. Antec makes a line of fans that are efficient and quiet, but so do others. If I have made you a little bit afraid, then good. I am not saying that you should not overclock, I am just trying to make you aware of the fact that you can destroy components in your system, if you go into it very deeply and not really know what you are doing. If you only get one useful thing from my post, then I hope that it is a desire to reserch overclocking before you make any radical changes in your bios. There are systems that have been overclocked to unbeleivable levels, and it can be done. But, their systems were designed and built to acheive these levels. And, most piece built systems can be overclocked safely to some degree or another, its just that that degree is a variable, depending on everything in the system that you build.

Most of what I post is my own personal experience and opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, as you should from any forum posts. There are nuggets of useful information in any forum, you just have to decide which ones are useful to you.

[kosmo]

Actually, the ATI 1950XTX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102044) thoroughly beats out the 7950 in most games, in addition to being cheaper and having better image quality. See here (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTE0NCwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0) . Theres plenty of other articles out there confirming it, if you feel like looking. Id go for some different memory also, as Corsair likes to charge extra money for their name being on it. These sticks (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227139) are cheaper, and if you do the mail in rebate, theyre quite a bit cheaper. With the buck fifty you just saved going that route, you can get a raptor drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136033) . Throw your OS and games on here, and use the other HD for storage. Loads way faster than a 7200 rpm drive. Definitely get the sound card and some decent speakers, tis well worth it. The sound card will also increase your fps over onboard audio, in addition to sounding better. Also, the hulabaloo about LCDs not being good is ommunist propaganda.Widescreen (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-5123) is the way to go. Every now and then youll run into a game that doesnt naitively support it so the image is a bit stretched, but its been a boon for me in fps games like CS to increase my field of view. Oh yeah, while Im on the subject, EA is a bunch of (insert expletives here) for repeatedly putting out crappy, glitch filled games that dont natively support wide screen.

As for over clocking, its done in the bios by raising the FSB of your processor. Its darned near impossible to do damage to a processor by overclocking it until you raise the voltage too high. All an unsuccessful overclock will do is make your computer crash more frequently.

[tribalman]

overclocking as stated before is both. for the cpu it is typically done through the BIOS. it's really easy. just step of the timing. i really don't reccomend going balls out and go for insane speeds. i don't oc more than 20mhz, and i go in steps of 3-5 depending. so what you do is increase the speed, restart and run windows, then run some programs to put some stress on the computer and guage what's going on. check out this other thread with good programs and more advice.http://www.automags.org/forums/search.php?searchid=980399
check out super-pi and cpu-z for system testing and stats.

with the video cards now the manufac. is actually giving the end user the program to over clock. it's as easy as running the program and moving a slider or typing numbers. once again take small steps and test the new speeds after each adjustment. with video cards DON'T increase the core more than 15-20%. the core doesn't OC very well. usually the memory gets better speeds, but there are exceptions.

as was stated by someone else, cooling is a must. really check out the CPU fan i mentioned earlier. it's the best, although big, cpu cooler out there.

*addition* people typically like nvidia more cause they got the double card working better. while single card stats are about the same, it's up to you. SLI beats the pants off of Crossfire. btw, SLI is what nvidia calls it while ATI calls it Crossfire. different names for the same idea.

[Banshee23]

Actually, the ATI 1950XTX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102044) thoroughly beats out the 7950 in most games, in addition to being cheaper and having better image quality. See here (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTE0NCwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0) . Theres plenty of other articles out there confirming it, if you feel like looking. Id go for some different memory also, as Corsair likes to charge extra money for their name being on it. These sticks (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227139) are cheaper, and if you do the mail in rebate, theyre quite a bit cheaper. With the buck fifty you just saved going that route, you can get a raptor drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136033) . Throw your OS and games on here, and use the other HD for storage. Loads way faster than a 7200 rpm drive.

I forgot all about the 1950XTX :) There's way too many vid cards out there. I wouldn't bother with the raptor drive, they're annoyingly loud. The benches on the 7200.10 drives end up just below the raptors. So you get just about the same performance but without the noise, heat, & small storage space :) Yeah, corsair can be pricey. I just didn't have experience with the OCZ ram in the list so didn't want to recommend it in case it ended up being crappy (which it's probably not, OCZ usually makes nice OCable ram).

[SCpoloRicker]

Buy an Xbox 360?

/so went there

[Steelrat]

Buy an Xbox 360?

/so went there

I'm going to do that anyways, since I need an HD DVD player. But I like big (64 player +) multiplayer games, and the best the Xbox seem to muster is in the 20's. I play on Live with my Xbox already, which is fun, but PC games are my true favorites.

[FlawleZ]

I'm going to do that anyways, since I need an HD DVD player. But I like big (64 player +) multiplayer games, and the best the Xbox seem to muster is in the 20's. I play on Live with my Xbox already, which is fun, but PC games are my true favorites.

Ugh. Skip the 360, pick up a PS3. Have you checked into the specs comparing the two? The 360 is a bit lacking. What will be even more entertaining, is to see how much the 360 will pale in comparison in the future when developers and 3rd party support can fully take advantage of the power of the PS3.

Linux anyone? All bets are off. ;)

[Steelrat]

Ugh. Skip the 360, pick up a PS3. Have you checked into the specs comparing the two? The 360 is a bit lacking. What will be even more entertaining, is to see how much the 360 will pale in comparison in the future when developers and 3rd party support can fully take advantage of the power of the PS3.

Linux anyone? All bets are off. ;)

Well, I am pretty much obligated to buy the Microsoft product for various reasons. Here are some more reasons I like the 360:

-MS Live network is established and works well. I'm all about online play.
-I love Halo
-I hate Sony
-I prefer the movies on the HD DVD format right now. Serenity, anyone?
-No one has harnessed the full power of the 360 yet, so the whole argument about which is better is kind of academic at this point.
-I hate Sony.

[FlawleZ]

Well, I am pretty much obligated to buy the Microsoft product for various reasons. Here are some more reasons I like the 360:

-MS Live network is established and works well. I'm all about online play.
-I love Halo
-I hate Sony
-I prefer the movies on the HD DVD format right now. Serenity, anyone?
-No one has harnessed the full power of the 360 yet, so the whole argument about which is better is kind of academic at this point.
-I hate Sony.

Hrm. Interesting.

-I love Sony
-I loved Halo but grew tired of it after countless hours logged on the first game.
-HD DVD is nice, but why? You're going to spend a lot more money buying the add on for the 360 to play HD DVDs when Sony's PS3 will play Blu-Ray (which is superior) right out of the box.
-Of course the 360 hasn't seen its potential yet. However the PS3 DOES have the hardware advantage on paper. In reality, it doesn't matter what hardware you have, its the software development that really matters.
-I use Microsoft products however, Microsoft is arguably a Monopoly and they skimped on the 360's hardware just to beat Sony to the punch on the release date.

Only time will tell but I'm favoring the PS3 with it having more horsepower.

[Banshee23]

Hrm. Interesting.

-HD DVD is nice, but why? You're going to spend a lot more money buying the add on for the 360 to play HD DVDs when Sony's PS3 will play Blu-Ray (which is superior) right out of the box.
-Of course the 360 hasn't seen its potential yet. However the PS3 DOES have the hardware advantage on paper. In reality, it doesn't matter what hardware you have, its the software development that really matters.
-

The movies on Blu-Ray don't look any better than they do on HD-DVD... And the game demos that have been shown for the PS3 don't look any better that the 360's games (which are still on DVD9). The only thing it's got going for it is the higher storage capacity that HD-DVD which means longer cutscenes (just what current games need...). And from everything I've read it seems to be that the PS3's GPU and CPU won't perform much better that the 360's if at all? (I've actually seen speculation that the Cell now might end up underperforming the 360 cpu's). I don't see much reason at this point to shell out the insane amount of cash Sony wants for the PS3, it's just not worth it at this point.

[Indi86]

I was in your same posistion about a year ago and wanted a computer that was ahead of the curve. I was also trying to determine if I should build the computer myself or have someplace build it for me. I discovered www.monarchcomputers.com and found that they were able to give me a built computer with a 3 day burn in and warrenty for $100 over the price of just parts on newegg. I am sure members in the other posts have made great suggestions for parts, so I will not comment on that.

[kruger]

Indi86, that is not a bad price to build a computer. However, building a computer is kinda like building a Mag. You get to pick all the parts, force them to work together, and have the satisfaction of fraggin' the bad guys with it. It is not necessarily the destination, but the trip that is the adventure here. There are lots of ready built gaming puters out there that will just scream. But the satisfaction of doing it yourself is all part of it.

[FooTemps]

Wait until after march... hardware won't suck as hardcore (have you seen the new DX10 card!? IT HAS ITS OWN WATERCOOLING STOCK AND NEEDS TWO MOLEXES!!!)

[Recon by Fire]

I got my new gaming PC in and loaded my favorites: DoW; BF2; BF2142....and even Company of Heroes. Even with the settings turned up to high, she performs like a champ. No fears that the 450w power supply wasn't good enough for the SLI-video cards, it does just fine with no difficulty. System was assembled and benchmarked and came out OK, so all is good to go!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/PC1.jpg

...with NEC flat panel 19" and Logitech goodies all around.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/PC2.jpg

Even came with a nifty night-light!

[FlawleZ]

I got my new gaming PC in and loaded my favorites: DoW; BF2; BF2142....and even Company of Heroes. Even with the settings turned up to high, she performs like a champ. No fears that the 450w power supply wasn't good enough for the SLI-video cards, it does just fine with no difficulty. System was assembled and benchmarked and came out OK, so all is good to go!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/PC1.jpg

...with NEC flat panel 19" and Logitech goodies all around.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/PC2.jpg

Even came with a nifty night-light!

What are your specs? What video cards are you running?

[Recon by Fire]

Intel Pentium D 945 3.4GHz Dual Core 64Bit
ASUS P5NSLI Motherboard
2GB DDR2 533Mhz Memory
256MB GeForce 7600GS PCIe (x2 SLI)
250GB 7200RPM Harrd Drive
DVDRW/CDRW 16X
Raidmax X-1 Case


I kept "behind the curve" and kept the cost down under $900.

[Steelrat]

Aw, screw all this. I'll just buy a Dell.

[jenarelJAM]

Intel Pentium D 945 3.4GHz Dual Core 64Bit
ASUS P5NSLI Motherboard
2GB DDR2 533Mhz Memory
256MB GeForce 7600GS PCIe (x2 SLI)
250GB 7200RPM Harrd Drive
DVDRW/CDRW 16X
Raidmax X-1 Case


I kept "behind the curve" and kept the cost down under $900.
Wow, just about an hour ago, I was talking to my friend, and we put together a computer that would have been for me, using almost exactly those components.
I think total, it came to $1200, including tax, shipping, windows xp media center edition, and a widescreen monitor :P

I think it was a 300gb hd
And the case was only $100 with a $40 rebate
And the Vid card was a 7600GT
Oh, and we knocked down the ram to 1gb to save $100 or so. Otherwise :P

[ProX9]

Aw, screw all this. I'll just buy a Dell.

Someone hacked his account, ill send him a message on pbn.

[FlawleZ]

Wow, just about an hour ago, I was talking to my friend, and we put together a computer that would have been for me, using almost exactly those components.
I think total, it came to $1200, including tax, shipping, windows xp media center edition, and a widescreen monitor :P

I think it was a 300gb hd
And the case was only $100 with a $40 rebate
And the Vid card was a 7600GT
Oh, and we knocked down the ram to 1gb to save $100 or so. Otherwise :P

The 7600GT is FAR superior to the 7600GS. Well worth the money.

[FlawleZ]

Intel Pentium D 945 3.4GHz Dual Core 64Bit
ASUS P5NSLI Motherboard
2GB DDR2 533Mhz Memory
256MB GeForce 7600GS PCIe (x2 SLI)
250GB 7200RPM Harrd Drive
DVDRW/CDRW 16X
Raidmax X-1 Case


I kept "behind the curve" and kept the cost down under $900.

Not bad at all. What did the two 7600GS's come to?

[Indignant]

Someone hacked his account, ill send him a message on pbn.


whose? ryan's?

[Tracker]

Aw, screw all this. I'll just buy a Dell.


you might wanna look at monarch, www.monarchpc.com

they have some nice pre built gaming rigs, and your not having to put up with dells bull****

Tracker

[Recon by Fire]

Not bad at all. What did the two 7600GS's come to?


Together they were $220 of the cost. The GS has DDR2 while the GT has DDR3. I got mine from www.ecollegepc.com.

[tribalman]

Aw, screw all this. I'll just buy a Dell.

if you do get a dell, format that drive right away. so much garbage running and installed it just bogs the system down. my hp laptop was almost as bad. why is Lightscribe installed on a computer that doesn't have a lightscribe drive? darn cookie cutter computers.

[FlawleZ]

Together they were $220 of the cost. The GS has DDR2 while the GT has DDR3. I got mine from www.ecollegepc.com.

Not a bad price. The 7600GS is a good card. In SLI you shouldn't have a problem in gaming as you've already stated.

The 7600GT DOES have DDR3 over the 7600GS, yes. But there are much more distinguishing factors that make the 7600GT a faster card. For one, it has much lower latencies on the RAM. It has tighter timings, can overclock much better, and not to mention starts off with much higher core and memory speeds. There is actually a 7600GS offered with DDR3 memory.

[jenarelJAM]

I really need to upgrade my current vid card... we just got a new comp, which works decent for almost everything I use it for... but the vid card...
GeForce 6150 LE Graphics :cry:
I'm soooo tempted to upgrade it...

[FlawleZ]

I really need to upgrade my current vid card... we just got a new comp, which works decent for almost everything I use it for... but the vid card...
GeForce 6150 LE Graphics :cry:
I'm soooo tempted to upgrade it...

I would be too. What kind of gaming do you prefer? There are several affordable cards out there that will more than adequately play what you like. I'm still on a 6600GT and it has no problem playing any game and most on highest settings.

[ProX9]

whose? ryan's?

it was supposed to be a joke, because he wouldnt stoop that low, but no one got it, meh.

[Steelrat]

it was supposed to be a joke, because he wouldnt stoop that low, but no one got it, meh.

I got it.

However, I recently found out you are in Rochester, and you never even dropped a PM, even though I am less than an hour away.

Tool.

:p