Soo...about that Infiniti Legend...

[SpecialBlend2786]

I've been doing a little bit of research on it, look pretty awesome. Sure, it's a FASOR but from the video's that I've seen and from what the owners have said, it looks like a good deal. Has anyone here had any experience with it?

Thanks for your time, as always.

[don miguel]

Im probably completely wrong, but when I saw the infinity in splat magazine, it looked like an entry level marker. Im talking in the ion level of the social class. It didn't look too fancy. There wasn't much info on it, just about the threadless feedneck and the eyes. But now many spiders have eyes too. I wasn't too impressed. Mabe it really is a good marker and I could be totally wron wich I probably am. Heck I thought the bob long defiant was a beginner gun when I first started playing. How many BPS does it do?

[CoolHand]

Im probably completely wrong, but when I saw the infinity in splat magazine, it looked like an entry level marker. Im talking in the ion level of the social class. It didn't look too fancy. There wasn't much info on it, just about the threadless feedneck and the eyes. But now many spiders have eyes too. I wasn't too impressed. Mabe it really is a good marker and I could be totally wron wich I probably am. Heck I thought the bob long defiant was a beginner gun when I first started playing. How many BPS does it do?

I'm gonna tell you straight.

Once you cross the JABB line, there aren't really any "entry level" markers anymore.

A D2 will shoot just as fast as a DM9, or an AngelOne, or a Timmy, or a whatever. It's all the same anymore. You can "Pwn" people with an Ion just as easily as you can an Ego. Really.

There are things that are a little nicer on the more expensive markers, but if it's just the ability to shoot paint in the direction you ask it to, just about anything will do the job well enough that it's your own skill level that limits you, NOT the marker.

Honestly, IMO the upturned noses at the mention of the term FASOR is nothing but snobbery. The fact that the marker uses a spring, in no way limits it's ability to shoot paintballs effectively. I have never understood that snobbery that plagues the PB, though I suppose one need not look farther than the consumer's need to justify spending twice as much money for the same end result (other than "I just wanted it" that is).

[FlawleZ]

Very true. My words exactly.

[punkncat]

Sorry, must not be leetsp33k fluent, or whatever...maybe just not AGG enough.

What is?

FASOR

JABB


Thx

[CoolHand]

Sorry, must not be leetsp33k fluent, or whatever...maybe just not AGG enough.

What is?

FASOR

JABB


Thx

Sorry, I should have broken out the acronyms.

FASOR is a "super cool" new acronym brought about by one company or another to describe the air forward spring return type of electropneumatic marker. Think BKO or Sypder EM1. The acronym breaks out as Forward Air Spring On Return. Just like all other "super cool" made up acronyms they added in letters and words to make the resulting acronym sound "super cool" so they could use it in their marketing.

JABB is a term that sprouted from I don't know where. It stands for Just Another Blow Back, making reference to the fact that there are about 10,000 Spyder type stacked tube blowbacks out there, nearly all identical in performance and assembly.

[onedude36]

'so what new gun did u get?'
'I got a FASOR'
'like in star trek?'
lol. thats a funny acronym.

anyway, i didnt really like the one i shot. it kicked way too much, much more than i timmy i felt. It also sounded really gay, call me crazy but i think i can hear the spring returning the ram, although im sure thats not an important charicteristic in a marker....i really wouldnt buy one, though the trigger is kinda cool if your into that style of trigger...its really easy to 3 finger too. i really didnt find anything special about it, that I could pick out anyway. I duno, i guess it really didnt feel too solid. I think this gun is deffinately a try before you buy kinda thing.

[CoolHand]

'so what new gun did u get?'
'I got a FASOR'
'like in star trek?'
lol. thats a funny acronym.

anyway, i didnt really like the one i shot. it kicked way too much, much more than i timmy i felt. It also sounded really gay, call me crazy but i think i can hear the spring returning the ram, although im sure thats not an important charicteristic in a marker....i really wouldnt buy one, though the trigger is kinda cool if your into that style of trigger...its really easy to 3 finger too. i really didnt find anything special about it, that I could pick out anyway. I duno, i guess it really didnt feel too solid. I think this gun is deffinately a try before you buy kinda thing.

Well, I tend to agree. All the Air Forward/Spring Return markers I've shot (and I've not shot a Legend, just to be clear) have felt chincy, but I don't think that's BECAUSE it was a AFSR. I think it's just a byproduct of all the AFSR's being a mid to low price range marker.

I see no reason why you couldn't turn out a very high quality AFSR (Air Forward Spring Return - take that FASOR!) that didn't feel chincy. It's just a matter of market perception anymore, companies don't use AFSR systems in high ends because it is perceived by the market as being a system used only by "low-end" markers.

Honestly, a AFSR systems makes for a much simpler and easier to build marker. I don't see any engineering reason that they would automatically be "inferior" to AFAR (Air Forward Air Return) systems.

I should design a sealed gas spring type of AFSR and call it a AFSAR or a SARAF. It works for F1 cars, why not PB markers?

I'll put that on my list of crap to do. . . . . . . . . item #1,459,345,975,001

Just after making two clones of myself but just before world domination. :cheers:

[mag_lover05]

whats with all the electro markers?? they all do the same thing...

i see no problem with mechanical blowback guns. they always work. ive put my tippmann A-5 through hell and back and its never stopped working. same with my minimag.

the 2 workhorses in paintball if i do say so myself. not a big fan of the whole "1337" electropneuwhateversupercoollazerblasterlightningh owitzercannon.

i only own blow backs. neither have needed to be repaired or have had problems.

[Piranti]

Rather funny that folks posting that a FASOR is a chincy type of gun and feels cheap.........Umm a mag is a FASOR.........blow forward spring return..... :eek:

[Jackel411]

I got to handle one of the Infinitys in person.. There suprisingly big and have a horrid feel to them and for the price point its almost seems unfinished there are several sharp edges on the trigger and other parts as well..

Neat but not $700 bucks neat

[CoolHand]

Rather funny that folks posting that a FASOR is a chincy type of gun and feels cheap.........Umm a mag is a FASOR.........blow forward spring return..... :eek:

Only one guy has said that, and he is essentially a "tool box".

I said they don't have to be chincy, but that the market perceives them to be so.

Big difference.

Also, the Mag has a sear, so that's a totally different animal.

[rkjunior303]

Only one guy has said that, and he is essentially a "tool box".

I said they don't have to be chincy, but that the market perceives them to be so.

Big difference.

Also, the Mag has a sear, so that's a totally different animal.


OH NOOES!!!111!!!1!!

It's a SEAR TRIPPER FASOR!!! The HORROR :rolleyes:

[CoolHand]

OH NOOES!!!111!!!1!!

It's a SEAR TRIPPER FASOR!!! The HORROR :rolleyes:

Why do people always assume that different = bad?

There is nothing wrong with having a sear in a system, it's presence just makes it different from the typical AFSR electro.

Everyone needs to chill out and stash the roll-eyes guy for a while.

You're all getting to be like those hypersensitive protester chick cliche's that everyone expects to see at college. You totally flip out at anything you think even hints at bad vibes towards the mag, and honestly, it's begining to grate.

Don't be that girl. ;)

[Arstron]

If you are intrested in the Legend, take a look at the new Fusion. They are made similar, the legend does have more modes more adjustments on the board (the fusion has semi or ramping at 15 or 20bps.), but the fusion does use an optical eye sensor to detect trigger pulls like the Eblades and egos. The fusion also had a LPR where the legend does not, the Legend does weight a few ounces less though if thats your cup of tea. What sets them apart more is the Fusion is only $350 with new board going to be released soon. :cheers:

[SpecialBlend2786]

Hahaha, thanks Coolhand and everyone else for clearing some things up for me. I actually think the FASOR (or AFSR :P ) design is pretty neat. Maybe it wasn't looked upon very highly because it was always incorperated into cheaper designs and never built from the ground up. Now in the Legend and Fusion, looks like it's been implemented pretty well.

I only bring this up because I've been offered a fully loaded Legend for my Sonic Cyborg, and although I still don't think I'll trade or ever give up my borg, the Legend still caught my eye enough to consider it. It looks comfortable as hell without the lpr, and is supposed to get great efficiency.

The Fusion looks pretty cool too, but I like the look of the Legend better. I actually really like how it looks for some odd reason.

Any more opinions?

[don miguel]

I'm gonna tell you straight.

Once you cross the JABB line, there aren't really any "entry level" markers anymore.

A D2 will shoot just as fast as a DM9, or an AngelOne, or a Timmy, or a whatever. It's all the same anymore. You can "Pwn" people with an Ion just as easily as you can an Ego. Really.

There are things that are a little nicer on the more expensive markers, but if it's just the ability to shoot paint in the direction you ask it to, just about anything will do the job well enough that it's your own skill level that limits you, NOT the marker.

Honestly, IMO the upturned noses at the mention of the term FASOR is nothing but snobbery. The fact that the marker uses a spring, in no way limits it's ability to shoot paintballs effectively. I have never understood that snobbery that plagues the PB, though I suppose one need not look farther than the consumer's need to justify spending twice as much money for the same end result (other than "I just wanted it" that is).

Perfectly said, and I am sorry for being wrong in my statement. My spyder electra acs 05' w? rocking trigger could shoot much faster and as accurate ac my friend's DMC. I agree that it's how the paint exits the barrell that makes the marker.

[Lenny]

Perfectly said, and I am sorry for being wrong in my statement. My spyder electra acs 05' w? rocking trigger could shoot much faster and as accurate ac my friend's DMC. I agree that it's how the paint exits the barrell that makes the marker.
*sniff, sniff* Hmm... Do I smell sarcasm?










(That should have it's own owl :D )

[buzzboy]

Sure hope so Lenny, HP spyders uncock after a little over 15(or all the ones I have shot. One uncocked after 10)

[don miguel]

Sure hope so Lenny, HP spyders uncock after a little over 15(or all the ones I have shot. One uncocked after 10)

Does happen, but when I maxed out my egg2 with full batteries and full speed 28bps feed rate, I could walk the trigger about 18-20 bps. I had my spyder electra acs 05 w/ rocking trigger. It has two respawn points and anyone can walk it. It is so easy. And faster than a DMC in my opinion. :ninja:

[Head knight of Ni]

Does happen, but when I maxed out my egg2 with full batteries and full speed 28bps feed rate, I could walk the trigger about 18-20 bps. I had my spyder electra acs 05 w/ rocking trigger. It has two respawn points and anyone can walk it. It is so easy. And faster than a DMC in my opinion. :ninja:


nani/what/que/WTF^^?

Gun makes 0 difference as long as it is consistent. All that matters is the paintball and the position of the gun when firing.

[benzy2]

Personally I dont get the point of a FASOR. Many of the lower cost ones were setup poorly and had speed issues. Not a problem due to it being FASOR but just the follow through. There have been more than a few ungodly fast FASOR guns though. Still unless I am seeing the design wrong it will always be slightly limited compared to an identical full EP gun. The difference would be in the kick.

A normal full EP gun has only the weight of the cyclic mass to get moving to open the valve. The FASOR has to move that same mass plus compress a spring. There is no way to get around that, again assuming everything else is identical. For cycling speed to be fairly fast you would seem to need a high LPR pressure and a fairly stiff spring which both hurt kick. Now this may be on a much smaller scale in reality than I am thinking and they may have made the gun feel very very close to every other EP out there. Still it just seems like a mediocre design that will always start at a disadvantage. Again this may be smaller and smaller the better the manufacturer makes the gun but its something so easy to get around I dont see the point not to. Its not like the noids are a ton different in cost or like making a single acting ram is much cheaper than a dual acting ram. For the money they are asking I just dont see the reasoning behind buying one.

And for the record I havent used one. I would love to try it to get a better gauge on the differences of it between other stacked tube EP guns. Still I doubt even if it is great I would get it over say a used alias or such.

[Toll]

Does happen, but when I maxed out my egg2 with full batteries and full speed 28bps feed rate, I could walk the trigger about 18-20 bps. I had my spyder electra acs 05 w/ rocking trigger. It has two respawn points and anyone can walk it. It is so easy. And faster than a DMC in my opinion. :ninja:


Then you totally grabbed the quad damage and rail gun...Right off the respawn.

[kenndogg]

While the Legend does look promising I would be hard press to get this when one could get the Dangrous Powers Fusion for much cheaper. From what I understand both a FASOR correct?

also does anyone know if the manufacture of the Legend the same company that made the stock angel barrels for the older angels?

[SpecialBlend2786]

While the Legend does look promising I would be hard press to get this when one could get the Dangrous Powers Fusion for much cheaper. From what I understand both a FASOR correct?

also does anyone know if the manufacture of the Legend the same company that made the stock angel barrels for the older angels?

Well, I;ve been offered a Legend in a trade, which is why i'm asking.

And you're thinking of the Infinity barrels (which used to be called Jacko barrels)

The Legend is made by a different Infinity company, something to do with Warped Sportz LA

[nevtangle]

Well, I;ve been offered a Legend in a trade, which is why i'm asking.

And you're thinking of the Infinity barrels (which used to be called Jacko barrels)

The Legend is made by a different Infinity company, something to do with Warped Sportz LA
Yes they were designed by someone w/ Warped Sportz, Glen I think. Anyhow, a buddy of mine shoots one and loves it. He has a bunch of vids on PBN. He has been doing all the videos for the Legend. See if you can get any info over there. His name over there is Johnny05 or something like that. He is the man to ask. All I know is that they shoot really nice and are really efficient. Of course they are fast and light, like most new electro's.

Edit: here's a promo video I found the link to http://www.center50.com/videos/Legendpromo.wmv

[rkjunior303]

Why do people always assume that different = bad?

There is nothing wrong with having a sear in a system, it's presence just makes it different from the typical AFSR electro.

Everyone needs to chill out and stash the roll-eyes guy for a while.

You're all getting to be like those hypersensitive protester chick cliche's that everyone expects to see at college. You totally flip out at anything you think even hints at bad vibes towards the mag, and honestly, it's begining to grate.

Don't be that girl. ;)

jeez, can't a guy be sarcastic on the internet? :) i know there's nothing wrong with it! lol

[cyrus-the-virus]

Does happen, but when I maxed out my egg2 with full batteries and full speed 28bps feed rate, I could walk the trigger about 18-20 bps. I had my spyder electra acs 05 w/ rocking trigger. It has two respawn points and anyone can walk it. It is so easy. And faster than a DMC in my opinion. :ninja:

I want to see a video of you shooting 18-20 BPS, even with two swiches in your gun it's pretty damned hard to get above 15 BPS. Also it would be awsome if you did the video over a chrono...

Don can you show me pictures of your DMC and spyder electra? PM'em to me cus you seem to have quite a gun whore collection.

hell if you can show me ligit pictures of your DMC I'll buy it.

[MarkM]

Does happen, but when I maxed out my egg2 with full batteries and full speed 28bps feed rate, I could walk the trigger about 18-20 bps. I had my spyder electra acs 05 w/ rocking trigger. It has two respawn points and anyone can walk it. It is so easy. And faster than a DMC in my opinion. :ninja:


I too want to see the video for that especially seeing how the egg maxes out at 18 on a good day. I have one with the alledged super duper X board and I used it for one game and I went straight back to my (at the time) stock Halo. As I couldn't deal with skipped shots and I know my marker wasn't firing past 15bps so the egg was under performing if the hype figues were to be believed.

[thefool]

hmm two respawn points. That doesnt really make a difference does it? I mean its still a shot per trigger pull.

:P

[SN toter]

I've got to go with CoolHands original reply on this one. I'm just as effective with my Ion as I am with my Emag, its all in the player...mostly. From personal experience, the only different that I've noticed that is really worth mentioning between FASOR markers that I've shot and air return markers I've shot is a little kick - which can probably be cut down dramatically if a company would take the time and investment to investigate that issue...granted that little bit of kick can throw off a shot grouping a little bit but you shouldn't need 16 bps to hit something, if you do pick up a pump for a few months and work on your game, not your marker.

Now me, I rotate betwen an decked Ion, an Emag, and a Classic RT...They all do the trick and like I said above, I'm just as effective the one as I am with the other. Basically your best bet will be to try to get your hands on one at a field and play a game or two with it. See if it feels solid and if you like the overall feel and operation. You can take our words for it, but everyone likes different marker setups and feels and since its your wallet that this is coming out of, try it firsthand. Thats my advice, for whatever its worth.

[warbeak2099]

I too want to see the video for that especially seeing how the egg maxes out at 18 on a good day. I have one with the alledged super duper X board and I used it for one game and I went straight back to my (at the time) stock Halo. As I couldn't deal with skipped shots and I know my marker wasn't firing past 15bps so the egg was under performing if the hype figues were to be believed.

Seriously let's see you shoot a 20bps consistantly with a loader that can't feed past 15-17bps. Not to mention it's damn near impossible to shoot past 15bps consistantly. Oh, and an Electra without eyes would chop like mad at 20bps. The stock bolt sucks and the operating pressure isn't low enough to pinch paint. Sorry Don, wrong again.

Here's what happened. You were shooting 10bps, probably inconsistantly, and you got all hard because you can't judge speed.

[SpitFire1299]

Ive owned many guns.. mags, dm's, cockers, shockers, etc etc etc.

When you get up into higher level tournaments.. your gun NEEDS to be working flawless, and getting the job done correctly. Everything counts, no matter how small.. it just needs to get done right.

Ok, you guys compare an ion to a rocking trigger spyder. A spyder will chop in no time unless you would like to shoot extremely slow. Also the quality, feel, and respect for both guns differ.

Now when you guys say your ion will shoot as good as a dm6? You must play local tournaments and are not stacking 15 games in under an hour during a team practice to learn the true value of a paintball marker.

Just my opinion. :cheers:

[sniper1rfa]

hmm two respawn points. That doesnt really make a difference does it? I mean its still a shot per trigger pull.

:P

Makes it harder to spawn-camp him.

[CoolHand]

Ive owned many guns.. mags, dm's, cockers, shockers, etc etc etc.

When you get up into higher level tournaments.. your gun NEEDS to be working flawless, and getting the job done correctly. Everything counts, no matter how small.. it just needs to get done right.

Ok, you guys compare an ion to a rocking trigger spyder. A spyder will chop in no time unless you would like to shoot extremely slow. Also the quality, feel, and respect for both guns differ.

Now when you guys say your ion will shoot as good as a dm6? You must play local tournaments and are not stacking 15 games in under an hour during a team practice to learn the true value of a paintball marker.

Just my opinion. :cheers:

Just keep telling yourself that.

Whatever makes you feel better about buying that DM6. ;)

I've seen Ions crap out, I've seen DMwhatevers crap out, Timmys croak, Vikings lose their minds, Mags chop and get bolt stick at inopportune times, Shockers just refuse to work, Cockers have a fit, and Spyders go totally ape ****, and an RT Tipmmann literally violate itself on the field.

No matter what marker you use, it can and will let you down if you don't take care of it. You're not going to tell me that an Ion (a spooler with two moving orings) is much more sensitive to maintenance than a DM6 (a spooler with about 14 moving orings) is. I've seen both take a dump at bad times, and it can always be attributed to poor user care of the machine.

The fact is that PB markers now very rarely just "break" on their own. Even the electronic stuff is nearly always caused by user error or outright abuse.

You can argue fine little points all you want, but in the end with any marker above about the $200 range, those little points are just that - very little. Sure, it may feel better, or you may like it better, but that doesn't make it the best marker ever, it just makes it the marker you like the best. Which is fine, but don't go too far out of your way to sell the rest of us on it, just be happy that it's what works for you.

:ninja:

[warbeak2099]

Markers are certainly getting easier to tech and less complicated. Take the new Mini, no wires to break or crimp. Very little moving parts too. But if you don't do something as simple as greasing the damn thing, of course it will crap out. As Coolhand said, it can happen to any marker.

[cyrus-the-virus]

Just keep telling yourself that.

Whatever makes you feel better about buying that DM6. ;)

I've seen Ions crap out, I've seen DMwhatevers crap out, Timmys croak, Vikings lose their minds, Mags chop and get bolt stick at inopportune times, Shockers just refuse to work, Cockers have a fit, and Spyders go totally ape ****, and an RT Tipmmann literally violate itself on the field.

No matter what marker you use, it can and will let you down if you don't take care of it. You're not going to tell me that an Ion (a spooler with two moving orings) is much more sensitive to maintenance than a DM6 (a spooler with about 14 moving orings) is. I've seen both take a dump at bad times, and it can always be attributed to poor user care of the machine.

The fact is that PB markers now very rarely just "break" on their own. Even the electronic stuff is nearly always caused by user error or outright abuse.

You can argue fine little points all you want, but in the end with any marker above about the $200 range, those little points are just that - very little. Sure, it may feel better, or you may like it better, but that doesn't make it the best marker ever, it just makes it the marker you like the best. Which is fine, but don't go too far out of your way to sell the rest of us on it, just be happy that it's what works for you.

:ninja:

The ion has 4 moving O-rings. and I think the DM has 16. not counting any O-rings in the reg.

Ion > trix (well when the ion is fully uped(which still costs less than buying the latest DM))

[MarkM]

Seriously let's see you shoot a 20bps consistantly with a loader that can't feed past 15-17bps. Not to mention it's damn near impossible to shoot past 15bps consistantly. Oh, and an Electra without eyes would chop like mad at 20bps. The stock bolt sucks and the operating pressure isn't low enough to pinch paint. Sorry Don, wrong again.

Here's what happened. You were shooting 10bps, probably inconsistantly, and you got all hard because you can't judge speed.

I don't think you meant to quote me as your reply holds up what I was asking ;)