getting out of hand?

[Clint3240]

ok, guns are now shooting like 20bps...if they are shooting this fast now..what's it going me like in a year or two...I think this is getting WAY out of hand and there should be a limit on how fast a gun should shoot...its just going overboard. My opinion.:(

[OhMyAMoose]

I am sure we are reaching towards the limits on how fast guns can shoot. But ya never know... there could be guns that can shoot 50bps. who knows?

[Clint3240]

Originally posted by OhMyAMoose
there could be guns that can shoot 50bps.


thats my point..WHY?????

[wimag]

Because bunkers need a fresh coat of paint every 15 minutes.

[IceCool32]

Why you ask? Because people like you are too stupid to move out of the way once the first one or two hit you. Also, people like you whine constantly that your markers can't keep up. Face it. The market is converting to electro, which means faster and faster markers, for most people it's not all about the speed. I like my Impulse© because it's light and fairly small compared to many other markers I've seen on the field, and with the I-Frame it can keep up with Angels. Why you ask do people want 20bps? To push the standards of modern technology. That's why.

[Clint3240]

wow man you need to calm down...i have an impulse...what do you mean by people like me?


*edit* Do not attempt to circumvent the cuss filters. You agreed to not use bad language when you signed up here, we hold you to your word. Army

[IceCool32]

Hey,

Sorry about the *edit* Do not circumvent the cuss filters, or we'll tell your Mom! reply. But I meant, people like you that complain about the high end markers that shoot fast. There is no need to put a ban on markers that shoot that fast, especially when no loader can load that fast. I mean look at all the E-mag owners around here, where would they be if a ban was put on faster shooting markers? How about RT Owners?

[shartley]

What the BPS rate of a Marker is, in MY opinion, is all meaningless in the big picture. Do a search for Threads here on AO discussing how fast people can *actually* shoot, and you will find that just about *any* marker will do the same... it is more in the trigger and how fast the *user* can activate it, not the BPS rate of the actual marker. How so? There is noone that can even shoot close to 20 BPS manually, let alone in a sustained manner.

Sure there have been claims that a *few* people can shoot 13BPS (cough), but most admit that anywhere from 6-9 is about what most do without the aid of electronics.. and that is in a burst, *not* sustained fire.

I think it is more a *bragging* rights of the manufacturer, over the actual effectiveness of that speed on the playing field….. since it will not be seen anyway. It is sort of like owning an exotic sports car that will *do* 250MPH. That is all fine and well, but you will never *go* that fast. And believe it or not, most standard production cars will match your 0-60 speeds, and some will even beat them. But it is nice to have a car that *can* go that fast. ;) Same with Paintball Markers. And the marker alone has never won a single tournament. ;)

And since Full Auto is not allowed in tournaments, and in fact even at most fields anyway, when people show Markers going full auto and I see all the *oooh's* and *ahhhhh's* I sit and laugh. Big deal… you can pump paint through a fire hose too, but that will not help you in a game any more than having a marker that *can* shoot full auto at 13-20BPS.. but you *can’t* use it. Show me something that will help the average player increase his effectiveness in normal playing conditions, and I will be the first in line to give the praise…. But most BPS figures end up equating to BS figures in the end… but are nice to talk about.

The Warp Feed in my opinion is the player’s edge. It allows you to burst-shoot at whatever rate *you* the user can actually shoot at, and do so at odd angles. This combined with its reduction of your overall silhouette is more important than owning a marker that will (in a test environment in full auto) shoot 20 BPS.

Example: Put a Warp Feed on a marker that will consistently shoot 10BPS without chopping. Give that marker to a player that can consistently shoot 7-10BPS. That player can now shoot that 7-10 bursts from *any* angle. That player can also be assured that he/she will feed as fast as he/she can shoot. And their silhouette is also reduced!

However… now take a marker that can shoot 20BPS in full auto, and give it to a player that can shoot 7-10BPS consistently (in manual mode). Being that he/she can’t use full auto on most fields, he/she is still limited to his/her 7-10BPS…. No matter *how fast* the marker can shoot. And since he/she does not have a Warp Feed, they can’t shoot at odd angles… and they are still a good target for hopper hits.

But hey.. make up your own minds…..I am just saying that people should not be so worried about how fast the manufacturers can make their markers fire in testing. What you can actually do in realistic situations is what matters. As long as your marker can keep up with *your* abilities, *that* is what really matters. And I have found that most markers *can*….. and the triggers are the thing that actually increase your BPS, *not* the marker, since it is proven that most markers can fire faster than most people can shoot anyway (if properly tuned). So think of it *this* way… it will never be the marker that is slowing you down, and *that* is a good thing. :D

Hey, go have FUN! And don’t worry about the high rates of fire… Insurance reasons will keep legal speeds down anyway. ;)

[ronron2112]

its mostly for bragging rights.. but it is fun when you send a stream of 9 or 10, and they all hit your friend..

but shartly took all the words from my mouth

[oneshot]

but it is fun when you send a stream of 9 or 10, and they all hit your friend.. ronron2112

yes it is.

[ronron2112]

by the way.. if your worried about the BPS, then go play Stock Class, that way, you can never complane unless they start making a "pump assist"

[pumpamatic]

As always, Shartley made a good point. Yet even though many fields do not allow full auto, they don't always prevent the player from pushing buttons and changing back and forth.

[Magsrule3]

Hey clinton, you dont have an Impulse. You a have a spyder TL when I was you like a week ago. Stop lying.

[Maghog]

There totally IS a use for full auto, it's called cover fire, and though that might be a foreign concept to some, in a woods ball game, it can be extremely effective.
Cover fire allows attackers to move up and eliminate players who are overwhelmed by the amount of paint coming at them.
I realize what the response to this could be, but let me just say that my friends and I use full auto under controlled circumstances, and don't allow unsuspecting newbies to get into it.
In that light, full auto, and the sky full of paint is a very difficult obstacle to overcome.
I like the challenge of going up against this, and when the playing fields are even, then you've got a fire fight on your hands that is unreal.
We have always had strict safety rules to accompany this style of play and have never had a mishap.

[Magsrule3]

Hey Maghog, I agree. Even though I don't have full auto as a feature on my mag I would still play against people who do. It really enchances your playing ability, because you learn to be conservative and to move at the right time. Although you can have full auto on a gun you could still cap it at say 12bps.

[irbodden]

Originally posted by Maghog
There totally IS a use for full auto, it's called cover fire, and though that might be a foreign concept to some, in a woods ball game, it can be extremely effective.
Cover fire allows attackers to move up and eliminate players who are overwhelmed by the amount of paint coming at them.

Yeah.. we use that "coverfire" thing in speedball too ;)



BTW- Clint I see where your going, but no gun can pump out 20 bps, nor will it ever in real game play IMO. By the time a gun can shoot 20bps, your shooting a 100% solid stream of paint, might as well play laser tag.. heh :rolleyes:

[Drizit]

shartly is right on most points, however it is possible to sustain 16+ bps rates of fire on some markers, for instance, on a properly setup Matrix you can slide your finger up and down the trigger, on every pass the gun will cycle 3 or 4 times, this is still semi, and no enhanced firing modes are used, it's just how the trigger is setup.

[irbodden]

Drizit, I am assuming your talking a Matrix with a Warpfeed and Halo, even that I doubt can keep up with 16 bps. I'd love to hear a sound byte of a Matrix shooting that fast, you dont own one do you?

[shartley]

Pumpamaticp
Very true, there will be cheaters… but they get theirs in the end.

Magsrule3
I think he was not saying “he” owned one, but was referring to IceCool32. It is all in how you read the post.

Maghog
Also very true. But you also bring up some good points. “You and your friends” use this in controlled circumstances. I would be willing to bet that this is also “not” done on a “Business Field” where they must carry Insurance. If it was, the Field Owners (in my opinion) are fools.

You see, what “we” do, and how responsible “we” are, is “not” the norm. And when making rules for the masses, you have to think about those who “don’t” use common sense, ethics of fair play, or care one bit about actual safety. Now add to that, that most Paintball Manufacturers are trying to get away from the “backyard” player image.. and it is clear that “full auto” is not a good thing for the Industry as a whole. And most manufacturers agree on this issue.

Yes, there “is” a use for it, but I don’t think it is worth it… and even more so because you can accomplish the same thing with well placed bursts, and use much less ammo that way as well.

And irbodden brings up a good point about the rate of fire being the equivalent of a solid stream of paint. I think most serious players will not find this “sporting” anyway. Heck, that is why we still have “pump” days. Paintball players will also help dictate actual playing rates of fire (in conjunction with Insurance Companies). So, I still don’t see it as a major issue… and thus no issue at all when just looking at BPS rates as a separate point of conversation, and worry.

And one more point… what people do in private is “not” what you can do in normal play, on normal fields, and in any actual tournament. We see this all the time with Cars, no matter how fast we can get them to go, the actual racing comities limit what you can run.

So, how I see it, that if there is enough interest, the Insurance Companies will allow it, and Tournament Organizers will go for it, you may end up seeing “classes” of games. Not just the “Player Classifications”, but the actual “type” of game being played. Just like watching off road racing, off shore boating, etc., you see several classes of vehicles being run on the same course… but they are actually only racing those in their same “classification” (which has nothing to do with “player classification”, but equipment). We sort of have that now, with Pump, Manual, and Electric…. But it could be expanded.

Oh, and more posts came in while writing….

Drizit
I don’t consider that being “unaided”. It is not a natural trigger pull. You are “fooling” the marker into shooting more than you are actually squeezing off. Can you imagine the Handgun Industry making such sloppy and easily “fooled” triggers? LOL You “set-up” the marker to shoot multiple shots per trigger pull.. THAT is still an enhanced firing mode.. just made by set-up, not a special “pre-made” (or manufacturer designed) mode.

You can also reverse your pressures and accomplish the same thing (but even better)… and “technically” it is still semi as well. See my point? Unless you are getting ONE shot for every pull, and your return pressure is LESS than your firing pressure, it “is” enhanced…. in some way. And enhanced firing was not what was being discussed.

I hope that made sense.

[HoppysMag]

speak with skill not volume. If you didnt hit what you are aiming at within the first 5-10 shots, go and practice.Whats the point of putting20 rounds a sec into a bunker where you know you aint gunna hit the guy? That is suppresion fire thats wasting paint. If you need to lay down fire wait until someone trys to move pelt there bunker with 5-8 balls and wait. Keep doin this and they will get the picture. ( note: these opions are bassed on my 5 years of rec ball. i have competed with some turny players on the rec field and it worked on them. But if you try this and get wrecked , dont come cryin to me)

[RSUAVE911]

I agree with hop.