BlackWater USA

[Triangle]

Who was it here on AO that they work/ed For BlackWater?

There's no need to post here, just PM me when you get a chance, please.
I've got a few questions, if that's alright.

[cowboy_00]

I've always wondered about groups like these...along with what are considered "soldiers of fortune" how can they be used by the military and what are the laws concerning them.


always kind of confused me. (sorry for the bit of threadjacking)

[Armory]

It's really a tricky thing but most of the time they're are contracted by the Govnerment that they are fighting in so they have alot of basic rules to follow. I was interested in joining BlackWater for afew tours but don't have real military experience...

[Triangle]

I wish that I could remember their AO name.
Was it Recon by fire?
Blah.

[Steelrat]

I thought you were leaving?

[Steelrat]

always kind of confused me.

Like ethical issues do.

[geekwarrior]

Like ethical issues do.

lol........keep hounding him :headbang:

[bentothejam1n]

http://automags.org/forums/member.php?u=10904

[Army]

I've always wondered about groups like these...along with what are considered "soldiers of fortune" how can they be used by the military and what are the laws concerning them.


always kind of confused me. (sorry for the bit of threadjacking)
Blackhawk, Dynacorp, SSR etc do NOT work for the US military. They are private contractors for private concerns. Often they work alongside US military personnel, but never for.

[cowboy_00]

Blackhawk, Dynacorp, SSR etc do NOT work for the US military. They are private contractors for private concerns. Often they work alongside US military personnel, but never for.


Do they still have to follow the Geneva Convention? are they different from regular military in anyway except they are contracted?

[Triangle]

Do they still have to follow the Geneva Convention? are they different from regular military in anyway except they are contracted?


The 1949, Third Geneva Convention (GCIII) does not recognize the difference between defense contractors and PMCs; it defines a category called supply contractors. If the supply contractor has been issued with a valid identity card from the armed forces which they accompany, they are entitled to be treated as prisoners of war upon capture (GCIII Article 4.1.4). If, however, the contractor engages in combat, he/she can be classified as a mercenary by the captors under the 1997 Protocol I Additional to the Geneva Conventions (Protocol I) Article 47.c, unless falling under an exemption to this clause in Article 47. If captured contractors are found to be mercenaries, they are an unlawful combatant and lose the right to prisoner of war status.

-Wikipedia

[cowboy_00]

so most all of them would be Mercs...like it was kind of assumed. but if they are unlawful combatants to begin with...then they never have to follow geneva convention protocols?

[IronCore]

so most all of them would be Mercs...like it was kind of assumed. but if they are unlawful combatants to begin with...then they never have to follow geneva convention protocols?
..umm is there such a thing as lawful combatants, like you say, "may I kill you?"
also which geneva convention are you referring to? the use of mustard gas?

[cowboy_00]

..umm is there such a thing as lawful combatants, like you say, "may I kill you?"
also which geneva convention are you referring to? the use of mustard gas?


well...what ive always thought was things like torture. but really i just dont understand the whole basis. and i guess the U.S armed forces are considered Lawful combatants? idk anything about it...thats why im asking people more intelligent than me.

[kruger]

And, as far as the Geneva Convention is concerned, only the good guys go by it. Do you think that the Taliban is really worried about what "rules of war" it breaks?

[IronCore]

well...what ive always thought was things like torture. but really i just dont understand the whole basis. and i guess the U.S armed forces are considered Lawful combatants? idk anything about it...thats why im asking people more intelligent than me.
ya thats a tough one, I dont think they have defined torture fully. If torture is to cause undue hardship to someone, pretty much everybody is quilty.

I think groups like blackwater is a security force that is hired by a private company to protect their workers that doesnt have a military asset, Im just guessing. If you mean mercs like they are there to kill poeple and get paid by the number of heads they bring into the table, then I think no.

[BeaverEater]

mercs are the same thing as hitmen. Mercs are hired "soldiers" to defend to attack certain objectives and are funded privately. They are often recruited to protect business investments in hostile lands.

[Triangle]

Well I'm glad that you are all so well imformed and have brought the bounty of accurate information to the table.

[Recon by Fire]

Okay mostly BS....

You may work for a PMC and be contracted to a company to provide security services but follow the trail and the funds typicly all come from the same place (US Govt). Govt gives contract to civilian company, that company hires the PMC to provide security, etc...we are all working towards the same goals.

You do have ROE's to follow, you aren't under UCMJ but you are NOT free to do as you please. I served with some contractors in Iraq who upon returning to the US were plucked from the plane by FBI and are now serving time in the federal pokey.

And sometimes the contracts are under direct military control; I worked one with DynCorp that we were under the direction of a US Army Colonel. He could fire us upon his whim if he wanted and you would be stateside in 24 hours.

Sorry, freash out of baby-killing cowboys :shooting:


:cheers:

[SCpoloRicker]

Well I'm glad that you are all so well imformed and have brought the bounty of accurate information to the table.

I work for Blackwater, so I'm really getting a kick out of a lot of these replies? :)

[cowboy_00]

Recon, so really they are goverment payed private soldiers? what are they primarily contracted for that the Armed forces can't do themselves?

and i dont mean to say that they are paid to do anything wrong or illegal i just dont understand them so i'm asking.

[Recon by Fire]

Recon, so really they are goverment payed private soldiers? what are they primarily contracted for that the Armed forces can't do themselves?


I wouldn't say private soldiers, security contractor is the best description IMHO. Your in a defensive mode not offensive, you are keeping places/people safe not winning a war. Most times it is not tasks that the military cannot do, it is more a case of not enough assets or improper use. But there are higher levels of protection services that the regular military assets may not be the best choice or trained for the mission. Example, our company was known for being the security detail for Paul Bremer, not the military forces. There are numerous types of contracts and missions, certainly more than I have involved with or exposed to, so again just my $0.02

[Recon by Fire]

I work for Blackwater, so I'm really getting a kick out of a lot of these replies? :)


Send me a PM or email, I tried yours but PM's are full and email failed.

[jenarelJAM]

And, as far as the Geneva Convention is concerned, only the good guys go by it. Do you think that the Taliban is really worried about what "rules of war" it breaks?
If the Taliban isn't part of the decision-making process, do you think they'll really follow the rules when they have every reason not to? Not that I agree with what they do, but look at it from their side. It's easy to call people good and bad guys, but remember, to them, we are the bad guys. People don't hate other people for no reason.

/end of dangerously close to political post...

[Steelrat]

Recon, so really they are goverment payed private soldiers? what are they primarily contracted for that the Armed forces can't do themselves?

and i dont mean to say that they are paid to do anything wrong or illegal i just dont understand them so i'm asking.

Just like you don't understand ethical issues?

[SCpoloRicker]

Send me a PM or email, I tried yours but PM's are full and email failed.

Thanks for the heads up on the PM box, email should be my sn (at) teh gmail. You may want to google my previous comment, though. ;)

[Steelrat]

Send me a PM or email, I tried yours but PM's are full and email failed.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAA

I work for PMs, so I'm really getting a kick out of a lot of these replies.

[Triangle]

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAA

I work for PMs, so I'm really getting a kick out of a lot of these replies.

I thought you were leaving?

[SCpoloRicker]

Don't you two go getting into a hissy. I couldn't pick one, so I'd have to kill both of you. ;)

[Triangle]

Don't you two go getting into a hissy. I couldn't pick one, so I'd have to kill both of you. ;)

Meh, I'll be outta here in a month anyway.
Show me yer' best Rick.

[Steelrat]

I thought you were leaving?

You first.

[Triangle]

You first.

Will you hold my hand?

[Steelrat]

Will you hold my hand?

I'll hold something, big boy.

[Triangle]

I'll hold something, big boy.
Then you'll need both hands, sugar pits.

[SCpoloRicker]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6603/owlstuffedsecks2qf.jpg

[Triangle]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6603/owlstuffedsecks2qf.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7538/owllolno2nx.jpg