unbiased poll

[FARMER00]

ok so i know this is the automag forum but i want an unbiased opinion for this
what is better/faster on semi and better quality i dont care about any of that ramping stuff i just want to know about stock semi, and quality

Smart Parts ION VS. Kingman (spyder) VS2

i know ur all gonna say get a mag but i already have one so i dont want any of that in this thread please thanks

[CKY_Alliance]

Are the Vs2's even out yet? Why not a rail or Mini, even a fusion? There are many "mid" end(price) guns out there.



But i will tell you now, the ion will be better, mainly because of it wont be near as loud as the spyder and will have less kick.

Most liklley...i havnt even seen the Vs2 in person.

[grEnAlEins]

I voted ion because of it's track record. I do not like them over any of my guns, but they are neat little markers, and they shoot paintballs. They are quick enough and seem to be reliable.

Why not a rail or Mini, even a fusion?
That is prolly your best be though... go for one of those, I would.

[mag_lover05]

Are the Vs2's even out yet? Why not a rail or Mini, even a fusion? There are many "mid" end(price) guns out there.



But i will tell you now, the ion will be better, mainly because of it wont be near as loud as the spyder and will have less kick.

Most liklley...i havnt even seen the Vs2 in person.


the spyder vs2's operate at the same pressure as the ion. so it wouldnt have any more kick and wouldnt be any louder.

[FARMER00]

well im just wondering because they are the only good electric for about 200. 250 in canada and teh pmr and mini and epiphany are all 460 in canada so i wonderend what was better of the even cheaper guns

[paint magnet]

Ions are very common and whatever kid who just had a birthday will have the latest Spyder (VR2), so go to your field and shoot them both before you decide. Also, get to know the differences in the internal workings of each gun. If you don't understand how it works, you'll probably want something simpler so you can maintain and troubleshoot it.

[grEnAlEins]

the spyder vs2's operate at the same pressure as the ion. so it wouldnt have any more kick and wouldnt be any louder.
doesn't kick have more to do with reciprocating mass though :confused:

[MoeMag]

Ions. Hands down.
The VS2 is a fast little gun… but its still a sear tripping, hard hitting, PITA to mess with springs to change velocity, cheesy spyder regs that don’t work, bad quality control, and my personal peev… Kingmann 9.8v rechargeable batt. They run on co2 as well as… any other gun capable of shooting 15bps. They freeze up. Its physics. If you want to attempt high end performance for low cost… get an air tank and an ion.

I H8 Spyder, mostly cause people think something is wrong with a mech spyder when they chop!?

Well… okay they keep the industry going and their paint is actually really good practice paint.

BUT!

There is no reason to get a VS2 over an Ion for any reason.

[CKY_Alliance]

the spyder vs2's operate at the same pressure as the ion. so it wouldnt have any more kick and wouldnt be any louder.

Timmies operate at a much lower pressure then a matrix, but the matrix has almost no kick while the timmy can (not always) feel like a shotgun...

[__Phoenix__]

the4 new spyders have the balanced poppets... so it's likely they'll kick alot less and be softer on paint.
As far as pur speed, the blowback will always win if you can get it the air.
The VS2 has no track record as of yet, so this goes to the ION.

Shoot both pick one. IONs are more customizeable from a performance standpoint... keep that in mind.

[d4m4don3]

I've shot the vs2 and the ion. The vs2 still feels like you're shooting a blowback gun. Granted it doesn't have the kick a normal kingman marker would have. If the Ion is all you can get then by all means. It's better than going with kingman, and the first marker I owned was a spyder. =)

[jenarelJAM]

the spyder vs2's operate at the same pressure as the ion. so it wouldnt have any more kick and wouldnt be any louder.
Mags operate at 800+ psi. Way, way more than the low pressure standards of today. Guess what. When I take my mag to the field, I get loads of comments on how quiet it is. More quiet than an Ion imo.
I don't have much experience with different markers and kick, but really, I don't understand why kick is such a big deal. I could see if it was messing up your trigger walking, or was making the balls fly all over the place, but pretty much everything these days has so little recoil that imo it's negligible.

[hs2000]

The Spyder will always have more kick because of that huge hammer that slams into the valve.

As much as I hated my Ion, I going to have to vote for it.

[punkncat]

The new Spyder is operating at a MUCH lower pressure than those of the past. That in itself should deal with most of the velocity issues common to the predecessors. Keeping liquid CO2 out of the marker has now become a bigger issue though.....

Spyders are super simple to work on and maintain. There is no real upgrade path beyond most of what has already been done. Maybe a good barrel?

The Ion speaks for itself in this price range. If you get one you can spend yourself into having had enough to buy a better marker from the get go....

[buzzboy]

A spyder will always be just that...a spyder. It is just a regular old stacked tube blow back. So what if its LP. There is no possibility that a blow back can shoot over a certain BPS(something like high teens). Even though nobody would be shooting that on an ion anyways it is nice to know about because if two shots right next to each other are very close that will simulate a higher bps and possibly uncock the gun. An ion wouldn't do that.

Also the Ion is smaller, lighter and will have way more upgrades for it.

[FARMER00]

ok now to bring mags into play. would you recomend adding the 20bps hyperframe for like $200used somewhere or just buying an ion. i dont have money to buy a x or emag lowers so dont say it please

[punkncat]

A spyder will always be just that...a spyder. It is just a regular old stacked tube blow back. So what if its LP. There is no possibility that a blow back can shoot over a certain BPS(something like high teens). Even though nobody would be shooting that on an ion anyways it is nice to know about because if two shots right next to each other are very close that will simulate a higher bps and possibly uncock the gun. An ion wouldn't do that.

Also the Ion is smaller, lighter and will have way more upgrades for it.


This goes back to a long standing debate about what blow backs are actually capable of. Regardless of where you stand on the issue, a Spyder is capable of shooting at ROF WELL above "legal" standard, and actually well into the range of todays fast loaders.

Lets not forget the mechanical reliablity of a sear tripper. There are very few parts to break, or maintain. Emags are sear trippers......

[punkncat]

ok now to bring mags into play. would you recomend adding the 20bps hyperframe for like $200used somewhere or just buying an ion. i dont have money to buy a x or emag lowers so dont say it please

I would not mess with a Hyperframe any longer, unless you had planned on putting a morlock/etc inside it. They are aging and most by now are WELL used.

Might consider just looking into an RT/Xvalve and an adjustable air source. That will offer the speed you are looking for, although its legality in a tournament is questionable....

[don miguel]

kingman has great quality. my spyder never had any problems! unlike my mag :rolleyes: . spyders are great, ions are a little bit more cpmlicated internally (banjoes, board, spooler) but are manageable. spyders are user friendly :D .

[Triangle]

kingman has great quality. my spyder never had any problems! unlike my mag :rolleyes: . spyders are great, ions are a little bit more cpmlicated internally (banjoes, board, spooler) but are manageable. spyders are user friendly :D .



So long as you maintain and keep whatever marker you own clean, the problems it'll give you will be minimal.


I'd say go for the ION. You're open to bigger path to upgrade it, than you would have if you shot a spyder.

I'm an ION fan, I'm a Spyder fan, I like them both.

Have you gone into a shop to hold/shoot either of them side by side?

True Semi: Both will fire as fast as you pull the trigger. Any marker with an electronic trigger switch will do this.

[FARMER00]

Have you gone into a shop to hold/shoot either of them side by side?

True Semi: Both will fire as fast as you pull the trigger. Any marker with an electronic trigger switch will do this.
i havent held or used the VS2 but i have played with an ion and i thought of it very very cheap feeling like it would break in my hands

and for the semi question i understand it will shoot as fast as i pull the trigger but what has a small trigger pull

[don miguel]

i havent held or used the VS2 but i have played with an ion and i thought of it very very cheap feeling like it would break in my hands

and for the semi question i understand it will shoot as fast as i pull the trigger but what has a small trigger pull

farmer: true, they both have single triggers (not rocking) so they semi rof should be similar.

triangle: ions are upgradeable, but stock they aren't so great. the eyes do not see dark paint (that's a fact), and the barell, and feedneck are out there. the eyes are upgradeable and should be upgraded. the stock vs2 comes with more features. the eyes are similar to ion (not glowing break beam), but i have shot an electra w/ eyes and it didn't chop black paint (same eyes for both markers) but i could have been lucky. also the vs2 comes w/ a clamping feedneck, nice eye covers, forward sloped trigger (preference), on/ off, and deleron bolt. the barell should be upgraded. i prefer the vs2. :cheers:

[Warwitch]

the spyder vs2's operate at the same pressure as the ion. so it wouldnt have any more kick and wouldnt be any louder.


your forgetting all the other factors like reciprocating mass, porting, barrel lenght etc.

I also would go with the Ion betweent the two choices though. But I cant bring myself to buy anything from SP. They are industry bullies :cuss:

[$tevo]

i would take the vs2, i never shot either but im not a huge SP fan, and i like timmies.

[glickstue]

Timmies operate at a much lower pressure then a matrix, but the matrix has almost no kick while the timmy can (not always) feel like a shotgun...


You've been misinformed, the average timmy runs 80 psi for the the ram and somewhere around 300 psi for the popit valve while a matrix runs around 60 psi for the bolt and 130 ish for the spool. Timmy's are the classic example of the high pressure low dwell system while a matrix is the inverse, hence they're tenancy to be gas hogs.

[punkncat]

You've been misinformed, the average timmy runs 80 psi for the the ram and somewhere around 300 psi for the popit valve while a matrix runs around 60 psi for the bolt and 130 ish for the spool. Timmy's are the classic example of the high pressure low dwell system while a matrix is the inverse, hence they're tenancy to be gas hogs.

Your numbers for the trix are bit low, but the theory is correct.

[grEnAlEins]

i would take the vs2, i never shot either but im not a huge SP fan, and i like timmies.
there is an unbiased response :rolleyes: :p

[CKY_Alliance]

You've been misinformed, the average timmy runs 80 psi for the the ram and somewhere around 300 psi for the popit valve while a matrix runs around 60 psi for the bolt and 130 ish for the spool. Timmy's are the classic example of the high pressure low dwell system while a matrix is the inverse, hence they're tenancy to be gas hogs.


I thought the Gen4's run at about 1/2 that? Even so i was just reffering to the 80 psi..that the gauge reads, that's the only PSI any timmy owner refers too, that i know, and i am not all that knowledgeable about them. Other words i thought 80 was the PSI everything ran at..



How does the poppit run at 300 PSI when there is usually around 80 going into the vertical reg?

[grEnAlEins]

I thought the Gen4's run at about 1/2 that? Even so i was just reffering to the 80 psi..that the gauge reads, that's the only PSI any timmy owner refers too, that i know, and i am not all that knowledgeable about them. Other words i thought 80 was the PSI everything ran at..



How does the poppit run at 300 PSI when there is usually around 80 going into the vertical reg?
80 is the lpr pressure that the ram runs on. there is still ~280 or 300 psi through the valve that get channeled through the bolt to make the ball go from what I understand.

[minimag03]

ions are upgradeable, but stock they aren't so great. the eyes do not see dark paint (that's a fact), and the barell, and feedneck are out there.

How can the Ion's eyes not see dark paint when they are break beam? Since when has any Kingman barrel been better than any Smart Parts barrel? And I wasn't impressed with the Vs2's feedneck at all. I'd rather have the stock Ion's with o-rings. Just out of curiosity, do you ever stop posting and actually play paintball?

[grEnAlEins]

How can the Ion's eyes not see dark paint when they are break beam? Since when has any Kingman barrel been better than any Smart Parts barrel? And I wasn't impressed with the Vs2's feedneck at all. I'd rather have the stock Ion's with o-rings. Just out of curiosity, do you ever stop posting and actually play paintball?
Yes, of course he does... When else would his team have the outcome of victory :confused: :p

[FARMER00]

Yes, of course he does... When else would his team have the outcome of victory :confused: :p
because he keeps the bench warm for all the real players

[grEnAlEins]

because he keeps the bench warm for all the real players
HEY HEY HEY! HEY! Playing left out is almost just as good as right field :p
I was last pick on the playground, can you tell? :cool:

[warbeak2099]

Ion is way better stock. The VS comes with a crappy reg and it's way more complicated to tune/adjust. The electronics are cheesier and it's just a cheesy gun overall for like $50 more than an Ion. The Ion can also be made even better whereas the VS's design makes it unable to take aftermarket regs and I don't theink Damon at Scenario Dreams is making a new Tboard for the VS. The VS is just too little too late.

And don't listen to Don Miguel, he's just a Kingman fanboi. He thinks an Electra is the greatest gun in the world and it's better than a DM5 lol. Go with the Ion, it's the better gun. As much as I hate SP, the Ion is the better gun.

[grEnAlEins]

Don Miguel is the greatest in the world and better I.
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/3760/garycolemanob1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)What choo talkin bout?

:rofl: Sorry, I deleted some wurdz :p

[glickstue]

80 is the lpr pressure that the ram runs on. there is still ~280 or 300 psi through the valve that get channeled through the bolt to make the ball go from what I understand.


You are correct sir. :bounce:

[glickstue]

farmer: true, they both have single triggers (not rocking) so they semi rof should be similar.

triangle: ions are upgradeable, but stock they aren't so great. the eyes do not see dark paint (that's a fact), and the barell, and feedneck are out there. the eyes are upgradeable and should be upgraded.



Eh? :tard: Break beam systems don't usually worry about "seeing" the paint, the eye(yes there is only one) tries to see the transmitter. If it does it won't allow you to fire, if it can't see it's transmitter then it allows you to fire. Break beam systems don't work the same way as bounce beams so they don't have the same problems.


The logic works something like this:

Bounce beam

if (beam detected)
{
fire
}


Break Beam

if (no beam detected)
{
fire
}

The trouble with some bounce beams is that dark shell paint has low reflectivity.