Opinions

[Samurai-joker]

ok, first off i know that i am going to get teased, flamed, or what ever you want to call it. But, i must ask. This is an opinion post, so let's hear them (but in a respectful and courdious way).

What is wrong with the ion? Yes, i know, everyone and their uncle larry has one. But, as far as performance, do they lack something that other 1,000 dollar guns have? I think that they are probably the most customisible guns on the market. I personally don't think that they are made that cheaply, and if they are is it too expensive to upgrade them?

just a few questions i have. if you post something please explain. please don't be four and be like "ion are for newbs". all opinions are wanted. thanks for you time.

[CKY_Alliance]

Well around here the biggest problem is they are not mags and they are SP..two big strikes to most AO'ers..myself not included..


anyway..they are a very nice(kinda) entry level gun..and they actually are cheaply made and break very easy..some of the things ive seen break is a bit riddiculous..triggers, banjo fittings, feednecks..

By time you buy an ion and upgrade it you can save yourself some time and buy a used High end gun and save money while your at it..most of the time.

[behemoth]

2 of 3 shops i frequent have the ION MANUAL PDF Saved to the desktop of their computers, as well as a printed out version just incase.

What does that tell you?



Now, i cant say first hand, but from what it seems, they're junk.

[MoeMag]

I have sold hundreds of them (maybe in the thousands). I have gassed every one of them up and in all honesty only had 2 guns that were not fixable, at a very well stocked shop. So they work, and tend to be very reliable.

However...
They are NOT made well. The on off button is a sticker. The day when I had the front screw in an ion actually line up to the point I didn't have to loosen the other two frame screws to get it in was a rare one. They are not user friendly to their target market (nubs) to maintain (Aside from the ones that were absolutely blown away that it needs a battery to run). They don’t have LPR's, but I cant complain about that too much because shockers don’t either (I don’t shoot those either) and they are respectable guns. With the exception of the dynasty or other PL SP guns, SP does not have a 1k+ gun for that matter. Ions don’t have a "real" solenoid, don’t get me wrong it works fine but doesn’t have the efficiency or cycle rate that anything else with a MAC or Humphrey’s solenoid (a QEV helps a lot though). I will give SP credit; the ion made them a force to be reckoned with, along with any nub, or in my case a paintballer on a budget.

I loved my Ion. It never let be down, but it was obviously a inferior gun to its successors in my gun bag of a DM3, DM6 and 06 Ego. (The 06 I just gave to a friend for christmas)


2 of 3 shops i frequent have the ION MANUAL PDF Saved to the desktop of their computers, as well as a printed out version just incase.
.


HA! I have every manual for every gun I have ever carried.

But the ion manual is often very close.

[Samurai-joker]

well i won't lie i have one. the reason that i got one, was that i was conned into it. If the guy at the other end of the phone would have told me to buy a turd, and that it would shoot 18 balls a sec, i would have. That is one reason i don't shop at that internet store or site.

when i bought mine i had been playing for about three months. what's the first thing i did? took it out of the box, threw down the manaul, and aired that bad boy up. to my suprise something was leaking and took down my HPA tank for 3000 to 0 real fast. to make a long story short, blew the reg and had to buy a hose replacement kit. but, you have to agreed that it was user error not gun error.


are not user friendly to their target market (nubs) to maintain (Aside from the ones that were absolutely blown away that it needs a battery to run).

I think the reason that they got such a bad name is becuase of thier target market. again newer players that were more than likely sold by a salesman the gun. They did little research to get opinions on other products made by SP. They, as i did, didn't read the manual thoroughly (sp?). All they did was see the sight "HIGHEND MARKER ONLY $300" as i did. Then when the gun has problems becuase of user error it's all SP or the guns fault.


By time you buy an ion and upgrade it you can save yourself some time and buy a used High end gun and save money while your at it..most of the time

totally agree with you on that one.


Well around here the biggest problem is they are not mags

I am in the process of finding the cash and resorces to get one as we speek. can't wait. yes this does include selling my ion. lol.

i am not defending the ion just my opinions, and if it sounds like i am oh well. just hate hearing how everything that ever happened to an ion is SP or the gun's fault. no one wants to take into consideration user error or atleast most don't. that is what i love about this forum civil conversation on opinions.

[Dubstar112]

What type of operation is this using? Is it like a m98 with a single acting ram instead of a spring?

[BD_Paintball]

there is nothing wrong with the ion or sp

[Piranti]

For the price for a 'new' gun you almost cannot beat it. It will shoot 17 bps reliably stock. Since everyone has one there is a HUGE market for aftermarket parts and availability of them is extremely high. The main problems with it stock can be very easily remedied with a few choice upgrades.

1. Trigger - Easily replaced and are some very nice replacements.
2. Feedneck - Again a very easy and fast upgrade.
3. Regulator - Some claim it is a crap regulator, however it is probably one of the better regulators out there.
4. Maintenance - The biggest problem with the gun is maintenance and having to take it completely apart to clean from a chop etc.... however there are now a few options to replace the body with a Bolt Out Back (B.O.B.) body. Thus eliminating the need to disassemblethe marker for maintenance to the degree the stock body does.
5. Everything else everybody usually upgrades on any gun anyways, Boards, membrane pads, detents, rail/ASA, QEV's, bolts.

Also Lucky has this nifty thing with thier BOB body is that it is cocker threaded. Are also some aftermarket breaches that are cocker threaded.


As you can see the problems are easily fixable it just depends on what you consider problems after purchasing it.

[geekwarrior]

perhaps the ion has so many problems because it is mainly owned by new players and young kids who either don't know how to take care of a marker, or don't care enough to take care of it.

i had one for awhile, no problems. Soon will be picking up a friends as a backup, and have a lucky 5.1 on preorder. for as cheap as they are (135 used) why not?

[mobsterboy]

quit whining and buy a mag
:)

[Lenny]

well i won't lie i have one. the reason that i got one, was that i was conned into it. If the guy at the other end of the phone would have told me to buy a turd, and that it would shoot 18 balls a sec, i would have. That is one reason i don't shop at that internet store or site.

when i bought mine i had been playing for about three months. what's the first thing i did? took it out of the box, threw down the manaul, and aired that bad boy up. to my suprise something was leaking and took down my HPA tank for 3000 to 0 real fast. to make a long story short, blew the reg and had to buy a hose replacement kit. but, you have to agreed that it was user error not gun error.



I think the reason that they got such a bad name is becuase of thier target market. again newer players that were more than likely sold by a salesman the gun. They did little research to get opinions on other products made by SP. They, as i did, didn't read the manual thoroughly (sp?). All they did was see the sight "HIGHEND MARKER ONLY $300" as i did. Then when the gun has problems becuase of user error it's all SP or the guns fault.



totally agree with you on that one.



I am in the process of finding the cash and resorces to get one as we speek. can't wait. yes this does include selling my ion. lol.

i am not defending the ion just my opinions, and if it sounds like i am oh well. just hate hearing how everything that ever happened to an ion is SP or the gun's fault. no one wants to take into consideration user error or atleast most don't. that is what i love about this forum civil conversation on opinions.
YES!!! FINALLY!!! A MULTI-QUOTE FROM A FORUM NEWBIE!!!
Joker gets 2 cookies!

/randomness
//yeah, it's a petpeeve of mine.

[glickstue]

perhaps the ion has so many problems because it is mainly owned by new players and young kids who either don't know how to take care of a marker, or don't care enough to take care of it.

i had one for awhile, no problems. Soon will be picking up a friends as a backup, and have a lucky 5.1 on preorder. for as cheap as they are (135 used) why not?


I totally agree with you on this. An Ion will treat you as well as you treat it. Ions are not forgiving like spyders, you can't just toss it in a gear bag week after week and forget about it.

My wife an I have had a pair of Ions since their release and we both love them.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

I can't see that there is anything wrong with the ion.

It has many of the features of a "higher end" gun, with none of the cost. You can argue that it's designed or constructed poorly, but that is not the case. I'll bet anyone, that marketing sat down and said "high end for $300", which means every single feature on that gun was evaluated for cost effectiveness. If it would cost $.50 more to tighten the tolerance on that frame screw it wasn't done. I'm sure all of the possible failure modes were considered for product risk studies.

The last time I went out to play with my Ion I had more fun than I had had in over a year on a paintball field.


I will agree with everyone who has stated that it's target audience is the problem. These are the types of people who see pros throwing guns, and landing on guns during slides, and say "I bet my Ion can take that kind of abuse." Just not true.

I think upgrading an Ion with anything but a QEV, and maybe a new reg is money wasted.

[Lohman446]

2 of 3 shops i frequent have the ION MANUAL PDF Saved to the desktop of their computers, as well as a printed out version just incase.

What does that tell you?



Now, i cant say first hand, but from what it seems, they're junk.

I have a lot of Chevy / Ford / and Jaguar manuals here

I dont have a lot of Ferrarri manuals - its nto because they are better made

Its not a $500 marker, so its quirks become problems. The bolt stick in DMs when cold, thats a quirk, because there expensive markers. It also hurt the "exclusivity" of the sport. Frankly at one point the $800 markers were better than the $200 ones so one could gain an edge by being committed enough to spend more money.

[Pneumagger]

YES!!! FINALLY!!! A MULTI-QUOTE FROM A FORUM NEWBIE!!!
Joker gets 2 cookies!

/randomness
//yeah, it's a petpeeve of mine.


Whats

Wrong

With

Multiquoting
?

:D

[turbo chicken]

For the price of a used one ... i don't think you can beat it.

They work good enough for what you pay for them. I dad purchased one a while back and loves it. He has had no problems with it mechanically and he play weekly. But then again he is knowledgeable enough to trouble shoot and fix any issues that arise.

If I was ever to buy another electro i'd get a good ole spyder and throw a reg on it and call it a day. Because on pure semi mode i cant pull the trigger any faster on an expensive electro that i can on that.

[Pneumagger]

They are decent guns. They require a bit more care because it's all budget machining... but when they're working they're just like every other EP gun.

I think they get the bad rap because now you have over abundance of noobs and AGG kids with markers they never "earned" or "paid thier dues" for. These kids all act they are the most arrogant thing on the field now that they have a real electro.
Couple that with the fact that high end gun owners may feel secretly put off that this $200 gun works just as good as thier $1000 gun.

Back in the day, when people saw a nice gun (autococker, Angel, Shocker, RT Automag) they classified that player as good. Not because of the gun, but generally because a player holding that gun was experienced enough to invest $1000 in a marker - people didn't have mommy and daddy buy all thier gear like today. For some reason newbies think a fast high end gun makes them just as good... which legit "high end" players frowned upon. Then all the noobs with high ends decide to be lemmings to blend with the "experienced player" crowd and mock everything lesser than their own. You see it all the time on the Nation - Players with beginner gun "X" and defend it with all thier honor; they upgrade to another better gun and bash the hell outta thier once treasured gun.

I owned an ION once as my first electro. I liked it alot and I upped the crap outta it.
For what it cost, initialy, it was unbeatable. When I got done upgrading it I could've just got a shocker or Emag.

[GT]

for the price I would rather go for a promaster.

[paintballfiend]

for the price I would rather go for a promaster.

QFT

[paintballfiend]

The thing with Ions for me is that EVERYONE has one. Maybe that is why I like my mag even more, it's "rare", a mistery(sp?) to the other people on the field. The way I see it is that any gun can run well, it's all a matter of preference, except Viewloader and BE of course. :) I LOVE the way the Mini feels, and for a little more I could get some pretty decent used "high-end" guns. However, the Mini just feels better.

[turbo chicken]

The way I see it is that any gun can run well, it's all a matter of preference...

^Why doesn't everyone realize this??

[iambored]

The way I see it is that any gun can run well, it's all a matter of preference, except Viewloader and BE of course.
Quoted For Partial Truth
The old BE's were decent

[Lenny]

(What's wrong with multiquoting)?
Nothing, it's just very few people use it these days (more from the forum newbs) and I'm glad to see someone finally using it!

[buzzboy]

What type of operation is this using? Is it like a m98 with a single acting ram instead of a spring?
It runs off a spool much like that of a shocker but a little bit different.

[bryceeden]

ok, first off i know that i am going to get teased, flamed, or what ever you want to call it. But, i must ask. This is an opinion post, so let's hear them (but in a respectful and courdious way).

What is wrong with the ion? Yes, i know, everyone and their uncle larry has one. But, as far as performance, do they lack something that other 1,000 dollar guns have? I think that they are probably the most customisible guns on the market. I personally don't think that they are made that cheaply, and if they are is it too expensive to upgrade them?

just a few questions i have. if you post something please explain. please don't be four and be like "ion are for newbs". all opinions are wanted. thanks for you time.


I have sold alot of them and the biggest problem(this has already been addressed I know) is the On/off button flat sucks. Basically other than that they are a pretty good gun they are definatly VERY cheaply made but for the preformance they are an awsome price, they are prone to alot of easiliy fixable problems like minor air leaks and stuff. Also when taking them apart to clean and lube you have to be careful or you can really mess them up but basically they are a good gun for the price. Also DO NOT GET THEM WET the boards fry real easy. But for the price I would reccomend them as a beginner gun, this one is going to get me flamed but you might also consider the Spyder VS2 or VS3 they arn't as customisable but they are alittle easyier to care for and in my oppinion the VS3 preforms just as well and is made alittle better. Just my 2 cents.

[bryceeden]

HA! I have every manual for every gun I have ever carried.



As do I, but I need some alot more than others(like the Ion and definatly the freestyle I hate that gun)

[iambored]

Well there is nothing wrong with the ion. I've educated myself since my last anti-SP post and have determined how childish it is to blame SP or the ion for the real problem of wipers and arogant brats.
The ion is a break-through, it lowered the cost of a mid-class marker considerably. But I would say that I've seen a few were the problems out of the box are just plain out unexcusible. Fryed soleniods, cracked frames, bad valves and these are noticable but overall they aren't that bad but with the market thats challenging it I wouldn't buy one.

[jenarelJAM]

I very much agree with both Lohman and Pneumagger.

Nothing is wrong with the ion.
The ion is a great marker for its price, it does its job well. Sure, there might be small problems with it(apparently the on/off button), but they're a cheap "high-end" marker. I think part of the reason that they won't be accepted into mainstream "high-end"-ness is because they're so common. There's definately a uniqueness factor in paintball. Last time I went to the field, I had people asking me left and right what my viking was. When I took my emag to the field, it was the same way. People look at "XSV" ego's and go "whoa, that's sick!" without a thought, just because it's a rare "high-end" and has some team's name on it. Not that it's not an awesome marker, but there is definately a superiority thing going on. The more money you spend, the more proud you feel about your marker. Exceptions to this rule, that I have seen, are: pumps, markers built from scratch, markers with custom work, where the owner doesn't spend thousands of dollars, ends up with a nice gun, and wouldn't sell it for anything.
I believe 100% in what pneumagger said about people stuanchly defending their current marker, and bashing it as soon as they "upgrade" to a marker that probably wouldn't make much of a difference. People will always see what someone else has, and want it, and forget what they have themselves. The grass is always greener on the other side.
I admit, I am somewhat under the sway of the "high-end" craze myself, but I actually like ions. Actually, I like stock ions alot better than "upped" ions, simply because it means the player is on a budget. The upped ion, to me, is the ion with a bunch of unneeded cosmetics (and I know there's more to it than that, but that's what it feels like to me).
As for what they "lack" when compared to $1000 markers... I personally bought both of my more expensive markers because they were supposed to be really reliable and easy to maintain. I haven't really had many problems with them. I went over to my friends house this one time and he had his ion sitting on his bed, in pieces, and we spent probably close to an hour trying to get the eyes hooked up and the gun reassembled. I guess he chopped. I understand there's an upgraded body to fix that, but all the upgrades you would need to do to get rid of the little things like that would replace over half the marker. Especially with the used market how it is, I'd rather buy last year's new model for $400.
Actually I want to switch to pump too, alot to just be different, save some money on paint, and really be considered "good", but only if I can prove it, not because I can shoot fast and get lucky shots. Putting myself at a disadvantage would make things so much less stressful, because getting shot out wouldn't be a "fair comparison," and shooting someone else would be sweet victory.

Plus, I like guns that keep their value...
$700 into an ion, I think you'd be lucky to come away with $400.
$500-600 into a mag or viking, several years go by, you can sell it for close to that.

[SR_matt]

ok here are my experances and views

the field i worked at when the ions were released, the guy that ran the field was one of the techs that went in to assemble the original run. i saw so many of the ions go down right after their release. if you are going to produce a gun or anythign for that matter do enough beta testing to make sure it works right.

kid that used to work at the field with me got an ion, took half the day to get it set up, walked onto the field. my friend and i looked at it and said "phssst smart parts" he responded with "smart choice" then his noid blew. he shot less than 100 balls that day and the reg was not set to high.

another friend got an ion and ended up basicaly rebuilding it totaly and replaced almsot all the parts. the gun did become decent but it still did not feel like a solid well functioning gun.


now a different friend has rebuilt an ion mostly and has a new board and all. it is pretty nice, it is very fast but it doesnt feel great still

so over all my dislikes are
-low quality
-ploopyness due to the spool valve type opperation
-smart parts buissness pratices
-it is made with out many upgrades and features that hmm magicaly SP developed the day after the ion was released. yet again if you are going to release something, make it good.

i have gotten to not look down on them as much as i did before but for the price there are many other guns i would rather have.

-matt

[FARMER00]

yeah they are decent guns but the main thing that people are forgetting is the
SMART PARTS MARKETING
when the ion came out it was in every magazine multiple times it was at every major event in every store and they had all the players that they own endorse it.

they are good guns but you have to remember the reason they got to where they were wasnt because of the cost or performance it was mostly because of the marketing and all the promotions about it. smart parts is by far the best in the industry for this.

its all about the marketing

[paintballfiend]

An Ion is like rap, they both are crap but the kiddies still love 'em.

[Samurai-joker]

well like i said i was talked into buy mine. At the time that i bought mine you had to pre-order and i didn't want to wait. so i called the shop and told them i wanted a vision impulse. he talked me out of that and then into the ion, with a month wait. i upgrades peice by peice. when i had a little extra money i either saved it to buy something expensive for the gun or bought something inexpensive. so i think with the price of everything today i have around 800-900 in the gun, including the gun itself. I think it is funny with all the expensive bodykits out there. personal opinion is that they are a waste of money. i have no cosmetic upgrades at all. but to each his own i guess. it's ok, nothing special though. that is why i have decided to get an automag ASAP. I just don't agree with all the richie's blasting the hell out of us poor kids who can't afford 1000's guns. ya i know get a job. well i have one and it's either play or save for an expensive marker. i would rather play then save. but it's all good.

[turbo chicken]

well i have one and it's either play or save for an expensive marker. i would rather play then save. but it's all good.

Im with you on that one ... that's why I went pump ... the money i save on paint is going tward various projects but nothing over 200.00

that's way better than playing once every 2 months!!!

[iambored]

An Ion is like rap, they both are crap but the kiddies still love 'em.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[djslik]

Ions work just fine I bought my girlfriends little brother one as his first gun and he loves that thing. I'll be honest I shot his gun in stock form right along side my PM6 and my buddies Viking. We both agreed that the gun can keep up for the most part with our guns. Of course the cut and finish of the gun is no where close to the higher end guns and yes it does not have all the bells and whistles, but for some people that does not matter. Also I wanted the gun to be a learning experience for him, to be able to understand the workings of a pnuematic system and also to get used to tearing down and building back up a paintball gun. The things that need to be changed have been mentioned earlier and honestly it is no different than what most people will do to their high end guns I did it to my PM6 and my Automag. I think that some younger or newer players put too much emphasis on expensive guns and forget to look at the mechanics of it. I know there are some engineers and builders on this site so they can appreciate that the gun was designed for a specific purpose and in all honesty it does what is was designed to do very well, compete with high end guns and level the field. I've been tagged by Ions and I bet you all have too. I'm tired of people looking down on others because of their equipment, this sport is not cheap and just because you are not rich or your parents don't spoil you doesn't make you any less of a player. Sorry I just don't want new players to think that they need expensive stuff to be good, so many of my girlfriends little brothers friends have that attitude and I hate it.

[hmudd13]

An Ion is like rap, they both are crap but the kiddies still love 'em.

Ya but an ION won't make you a multi millionaire for being illiterate and sampling other peoples music. :rofl:

Out of the 90+ markers I have (15 of them mags) I have one ION.
I love it. I've never had problems with it.
The marker is easy to use, relatively cheap and fun to shoot. :clap:

my .02 cents

[PumpMag]

Approximately 1 year ago more or less, my teammates tried to "hint" to me that I need a new electro for a Semi Tourney.

My ELCD frame was acting up on my Mag, so they recommended the Ion. 2 or 3 of the guys had one already and tried to convince me to buy one since there was a special for approx $250 back then.

After more pressure, I basically said not for me. One teammate agreed to let me try one on the field. To make a long story short, it would not fire! My teammate ran back to me to get it to work and it still wouldn't fire (This happened while the game was in progress).

Well that made a really bad impression on me. So basically, a no for me.

Another thing was the plastic body! :tard: No thanks.

Early that year, I purchased a lightly used Emag for about 3 times as much money. This has been the Best high end puchase I made. What other gun has a switch to go mech when the electronics fail? :shooting:

Well, my teammates ended up buying higher end guns and now their Ions serve as back-ups. 1 guy uses it as a primary, but had repeated trigger problems.

My opinion before any marker purchase:

First Check - Then Try - Then Buy................. ;)

[gus13]

from what I've seen of them in use The ions aren't terrible markers however they (like any marker) have their issues. One I have is the fact that it takes five minutes just to turn the thing on... I don't know why but myself and a few of the guys on my team always have problems trying to find that button! another issue is ball breal my teammate always seem to be breaking in the marker... don't know why....oh wait yeah, user error....he never cleaned the darn thing! so basically the on/off button for me and a few other people I know can't seem to turn it on. other than that just the fact that I don't really like the look of it nor do I like the reg to ASA setup, with the elbow being where it is it seems to get in the way when you try to shoot left handed. Now I don't use an ion myself, this is just my observation with other people using them.

[nathanjones008]

i havent shot a ion. but i have seen other people shoot them. every noob on the feild has one. they are ok guns. lets all remember that when we buy one we give smarts parts power. i dont want to look 3 years down the road and see only smart part guns on the field. i love variety. it makes it boring world if every one shot smart parts. their business practices are walmart like. they basicly put AkA out of bussiness, they are screwing up AGD and many others in the paintball industry. i am not telling anyone how to spend their money. remember the way we give smarts parts power is our money. i amlost bought a ion a few months ago, but when i found out how they do theri business , i made a decision do not give them my money. i support any other company other than smart parts, their are many other companies out thier that are better than smart parts. they may be a bit more expensive but i think its worth it. :)

[paintballfiend]

i havent shot a ion. but i have seen other people shoot them. every noob on the feild has one. they are ok guns. lets all remember that when we buy one we give smarts parts power. i dont want to look 3 years down the road and see only smart part guns on the field. i love variety. it makes it boring world if every one shot smart parts. their business practices are walmart like. they basicly put AkA out of bussiness, they are screwing up AGD and many others in the paintball industry. i am not telling anyone how to spend their money. remember the way we give smarts parts power is our money. i amlost bought a ion a few months ago, but when i found out how they do theri business , i made a decision do not give them my money. i support any other company other than smart parts, their are many other companies out thier that are better than smart parts. they may be a bit more expensive but i think its worth it. :)

:rolleyes:

[Lohman446]

i havent shot a ion. but i have seen other people shoot them. every noob on the feild has one. they are ok guns. lets all remember that when we buy one we give smarts parts power. i dont want to look 3 years down the road and see only smart part guns on the field. i love variety. it makes it boring world if every one shot smart parts. their business practices are walmart like. they basicly put AkA out of bussiness, they are screwing up AGD and many others in the paintball industry. i am not telling anyone how to spend their money. remember the way we give smarts parts power is our money. i amlost bought a ion a few months ago, but when i found out how they do theri business , i made a decision do not give them my money. i support any other company other than smart parts, their are many other companies out thier that are better than smart parts. they may be a bit more expensive but i think its worth it. :)

Tell me again how SP put AKA and AGD out of business?

[SR_matt]

SP got aka to stop makign vikings and excals and last i heard they still can not make any new markers, only can use parts that were in stock at the time of the cease and desist order came. and from what i rmeember and understand, even after the SP claim was revoked they didnt pick back up from all the bs they had to go through.

i still havent seen an 06 or 07 aka gun.

-matt

[Lohman446]

SP got aka to stop makign vikings and excals and last i heard they still can not make any new markers, only can use parts that were in stock at the time of the cease and desist order came. and from what i rmeember and understand, even after the SP claim was revoked they didnt pick back up from all the bs they had to go through.

i still havent seen an 06 or 07 aka gun.

-matt

AKA signed an agreement - they reached an agreement with SP that addressed there patent infringement. Tell me again how it was SPs fault AKA was in violation of patents? Although one might argue that the SP patent was overly broad I think oen would have a hard time arguing that at the base it was valid. Pneuventures did pretty well do all the work of the electropneumatic marker, and SP did buy PVI.

[SR_matt]

liek you said SP didnt own the pattent fully, there fore did not have the right to enfore the pattent in the way they did
-matt

[Lohman446]

liek you said SP didnt own the pattent fully, there fore did not have the right to enfore the pattent in the way they did
-matt

I said it might be argued it was overly broad.. I did not say I thought it was invalid in its entirety. I would say it did fully cover electronic switch activation by the trigger - which is how the Viking worked. AKA had the full support to fight it, they just did not have a leg to stand on.

[SR_matt]

yes but the amount SP had control of that pattent did not legaly allow them to sue any one.

-matt

[Lohman446]

yes but the amount SP had control of that pattent did not legaly allow them to sue any one.

-matt


What? Based on why? SP owned the intellectual property and had full ownership rights to protect and profit from it. The way people spell it out as they think it happened a two year old could have defeated SP in court. Hmm, yet somehow only WDP has even come close, and only that was joint ownership of the patent, not harming SPs ownership of it.

[SR_matt]

the paten was claimed by 2 parties that orignaly were in the same company, PVI, both of the parties had a valid claim on it thus a 50/50 ownership. sp claimed 100% ownership (which you need, as far as i understand it, to sue based on having a paten). the othert party that still had the paten was part of WDP, the only way the suits could have gone down correctly is if both parties tried to sue based on the paten.

if you noticed the lawsuits were reversed becasue SP did not have the full paten, infact they only had half of it.

either way the paten was to broad, patening of an "electronic paintball marker" is like trying to paten a "gas powered engine", there are so many types of fuels and engines its not legit.

-matt

[SCpoloRicker]

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2112/workforhitlerpc9.jpg

[Lohman446]

the paten was claimed by 2 parties that orignaly were in the same company, PVI, both of the parties had a valid claim on it thus a 50/50 ownership. sp claimed 100% ownership (which you need, as far as i understand it, to sue based on having a paten). the othert party that still had the paten was part of WDP, the only way the suits could have gone down correctly is if both parties tried to sue based on the paten.

if you noticed the lawsuits were reversed becasue SP did not have the full paten, infact they only had half of it.

either way the paten was to broad, patening of an "electronic paintball marker" is like trying to paten a "gas powered engine", there are so many types of fuels and engines its not legit.

-matt

What lawsuit was reversed? A court ordered WDP and SP had joint ownership of the patent because of the two parties involved in PVI. In any case it gave WDP standing, not AKA. It was AKAs infringement of a patent that caused them problems, its not SPs or WDPs fault it happened. PS, I see joint agreements now involving WDP and SP, care to test that patent again?

[Triangle]

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2112/workforhitlerpc9.jpg

Sup Godwin?

[SR_matt]

What lawsuit was reversed? A court ordered WDP and SP had joint ownership of the patent because of the two parties involved in PVI. In any case it gave WDP standing, not AKA. It was AKAs infringement of a patent that caused them problems, its not SPs or WDPs fault it happened. PS, I see joint agreements now involving WDP and SP, care to test that patent again?
IIRC dye counter-sued, or sued after the fact SP becasue the some of the designs were already patened and that led to (IIRC) many of the suits SP brought to be thrown out.

i remember hearing something very close to if not exactly that in the last 6 months
-matt

[Lohman446]

IIRC dye counter-sued, or sued after the fact SP becasue the some of the designs were already patened and that led to (IIRC) many of the suits SP brought to be thrown out.

i remember hearing something very close to if not exactly that in the last 6 months
-matt


And Dye, WDP, SP reached an agreement. Hey, if the patents not valid, why is AKA not building new markers? SPs fault that they lost a lot of their brain trust? Sorry, AKA and AGDs problems, were there well before SP came into the picture, its just a convenient scapegoat for the fanboys.

[Lenny]

i havent shot a ion. but i have seen other people shoot them. every noob on the feild has one. they are ok guns. lets all remember that when we buy one we give smarts parts power. i dont want to look 3 years down the road and see only smart part guns on the field. i love variety. it makes it boring world if every one shot smart parts. their business practices are walmart like. they basicly put AkA out of bussiness, they are screwing up AGD and many others in the paintball industry. i am not telling anyone how to spend their money. remember the way we give smarts parts power is our money. i amlost bought a ion a few months ago, but when i found out how they do theri business , i made a decision do not give them my money. i support any other company other than smart parts, their are many other companies out thier that are better than smart parts. they may be a bit more expensive but i think its worth it. :)
You forgot one.

BOA. They killed BOA, too.

[cyrus-the-virus]

Me? I personally love the ion. I may not share the same love the the parent company but this is about the gun not the company right?

You can build (from scratch(with all after market parts)) and ion for about the same price as a shocker, maybe a bit more if you buy an expenxive trigger frame. and it will be comparable to all high end's today.

The stock ion is ok, not the best, but ok. It deffinetly beats a tippmann though. If you take care of your gun it will take care of you. Around here we can only use CO2 with HPA as a rarity. all the ions around here have been working flawlessly without any major problems.

not a very well thought out or typed post but w/e I don't have tiem for that :P

Just for the record I do NOT own an ion, I own a E-mag and soon a pump mag :D


And Dye, WDP, SP reached an agreement. Hey, if the patents not valid, why is AKA not building new markers? SPs fault that they lost a lot of their brain trust? Sorry, AKA and AGDs problems, were there well before SP came into the picture, its just a convenient scapegoat for the fanboys.

Really, what proof do you have of this again? AKA was doing quite well until SP, so was AGD.