Sexual Harassment... or not?

[Pneumagger]

Here's the hypothetical :rolleyes: situation involving a 21yr old male who enjoys paintball and a roughly 30 year old attractive female. Neither person ahs ever really spoken to each other.
Do you think this is sexual harassment?

Guy: [sitting at desk typing] tac*tac*tic*tac....
Girl: [enters] Hi.
Guy: Hi, how ya doin. [thinking: :dance: :dance: :dance: ]
Girl: Not bad.
...A short conversation starts about the office, weather, lunch menu, whatever...
Girl: So what do you thinking then?
Guy: Well, if I told you what I was actually thinking you would in all probability consider it sexual harassment. So I'll just say, 'nothing'.
Girl: [upset][leaves]

Well?

[MANN]

I dont agree with verbal sexual harrasment. If a woman asks a guy what he is thinking then she should be ready for a remark like that.

Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you.

[Pneumagger]

I dont agree with verbal sexual harrasment. If a woman asks a guy what he is thinking then she should be ready for a remark like that.

Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you.

But the guy never said or mmotioned anything sexual, offensive, demeaning, or otherwise.
For all the girl knows he could have been thinking she was ugly - or hot - or has nice tatas... she can't just assume something incriminating.

For example: When you ask a government official/worker/contractor what they are doing, and they say they aren't going to tell you - it's not being elitist or secretive, it's following the rules.

The sad part is I forsee the guy losing this one :(

[Glickman]

I dont agree with verbal sexual harrasment. If a woman asks a guy what he is thinking then she should be ready for a remark like that.

Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you.

personally i think no matter what kind of "manly man man" you are, someone could find words that would hurt you.

sexual harassment is tricky. you can be called out on it for merely insinuating, which this guy pretty much did. is it going anywhere in a court of law? highly doubtful.

so, its probably up to the manager's discretion. the funny thing is that if your the manager and are approached with a worker claiming sexual harassment, you have pretty much no choice but to take some kind of action, even if it is purely BS.

[koleah]

Thats the thing about sexual harassment:

If it can be considered sexual harassment, then it can be sexual harassment.

Anything you do (theoretically), from the tone in your voice to what you were doing with your eyes while you two were talking, could be considered sexual harassment. Including jokes (like this one, and like the one where I learned my lesson.)

So "the guy" should just watch out in the future.

Kolea

[PumpPlayer]

It's "yellow light."

If it went to court there'd be no problem at all but that doesn't guarantee safety.
There is a more tactful way to handle the situation - from both ends.

If I were the supervisor and it was reported to me, I would have to CMA and run things by the book. The sad part is that it would become a big deal over nothing. If the girl decided to push it, that is...

[turbo chicken]

If you have to ask ... :nono:

[MANN]

so, its probably up to the manager's discretion.

QFT

[behemoth]

I say things like that all the time.

(and youve seen me, that can be kinda creepy, eh? :P)

Just find her again, and be like "Im sorry, it was only a joke, i didn't think you'd get upset. I honestly didnt mean for it be taken that way. I hope theres no hard feelings."

If shes still pissed, good luck.

If she smiles, youre fine, but dont let your fiance-to-be know about it.

[MANN]

But the guy never said or mmotioned anything sexual, offensive, demeaning, or otherwise.


Guy: Well, if I told you what I was actually thinking you would in all probability consider it sexual harassment. So I'll just say, 'nothing'.

If the word sex is anywhere in the conversation it is probally considered sexual harrasment. At least according to HR (they are all women there)

[Pneumagger]

Saying you might Sexually Harass someone wasnt sexual Harasment.

Proposing to a broad isn't marriage.

Talking about robbing a bank isn't theft.

Telling someone you might kill them wasn't murder.

/Josh... I'm sexually harassing you.
//Also... this really is a hypothetical situation. I just thought about saying that line to someone today and it got my imagination running.

[MANN]

/Josh... I'm sexually harassing you.

:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

Finally I got sexually harrased.

No I agree completely with you. If it were my manager he would laugh, and nothing would happen. The women in our office (the ones WITHOUT chair arse, ie the women that look 130 behind the desk, and 230 standing up) are use to sexual harrasment, and usually know that most of us are joking around.

The problem you will have depends on if she pushes it/who finds out. Some people are anal about following procedure, and little events will blow up and require books of paperwork.

Kinda off topic, but one of the engineer techs was moving a desk, and cut his hand on a floursent lightbulb that he broke that was attached to the top of it. He was not wearing PPE which is according to Health and Safty required when movin a desk. After cutting it he went to his personal doc to get 2 stiches, and pain meds (he is a sissy). H&S found out about it, and it went up the food chain to the vice pres of the company. My/his manager didnt think much about a cut, and did not follow the"procedure" and got a ton of paperwork/slap on the hand about it. After it was said and done they said it cost the company ~5k for a small little cut that could have probally been fixed with some electrical tape around his finger.

Moral of the story: Its not what you did its who knows what you did/didnt do

[Pneumagger]

I was actually referring to Josh (behemoth)... but I'll take a 2 for 1 anytime :)

/Any other repressed Joshes out there?

[Ole Unka Phil]

Many years ago I had a female employee that was transfered under me that was a trouble maker from another division. I tried everything I could to not have her transferred under my supervision because I knew this. Her previous supervisors were deathly afraid of her and would not meet with her alone without another in the room. Well.... they saw transferring her to me as a way out of thier predicament rather than firing her so I ended up with her for exactly one part of one day. I was in her presence perhaps 20 minutes and always with a few witnesses.

Well she failed to show up the second day and eventualy I was hauled over to Human Resources where I was charged with Sexual Harrasment for Allegedly saying the word "S_H_E_T" (yea the Feces word) in front of her. And incredible long period of investigation it was finaly determined that I did NOT say it (remember I had witnesses every time) and that she had abandoned her job. Now... this all took like 6 months. For which time I was in limbo and was not allowed to discuss it with anyone nor was I eligible for any promotions, raises while under investigation. All someone has to do is "Accuse" you of something and your screwed for a period of time. Then, all the while, the accuser can talk his or her head off and make up anything they want but you can say nothing! So there is damage to your reputation going on all the while as well as a frozen period of your career. And in the end, if the whole thing is dropped, there is no public announcement nor any restoration of your reputation or public appology. You just are expected to move on and live with it.

Its not a pleasant thing to go through. Its something to avoid at all costs. And as you can see, even when your totaly covering your arse your still vulnerable to wild accusations. And it will damage your reputation no matter how honest and how rediculous it all is. And you can do NOTHING to prevent it except to keep yourself totaly clean. So watch what you say and do and hope for nothing like I went through.

Least you think I could have sued her in any way, your right. However she was so disturbed that any judge or jury would have concluded that she really did believe what she claimed happened. Even if it did not. And then proving damages is impossible. No one is going to admit they passed you over for a raise or promotion because of an accusation because then THEY Would be subject to disiplinary action. So your never going to get your superiors to admit that. So you screwed. All the way around.

[Lohman446]

Most companies (and I have experience with turmoil in a dealership I worked in down south, or at least dealing with the issues afterwards) settle sexual harrassment allegations quickly for a sum (in this case it was $50K) while never admitting wrong doing just to avoid the issue becoming public once an accusation is made unless they can disprove it. This is not a case of innocent until proven guilty, its a case of guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent.

The manager in question was never disciplined, frankly because everyone knew he had never done anything wrong, even though the company had paid damages.

[Pneumagger]

Unka,

How is the four letter fecal word in any way sexual, or harassment? Everybody Poops (remember the book from kindergarten). And last I checked... poop isn't sexually oriented.

So she filed a sexual harasment claim over a word that has no gender specific nor sexual meaning?

What a [five letter female dog word].

[gimp]

I'm gonna be in a lot of trouble if I get a new job in some office where you can't swear. I didn't realize you could get in trouble over it. It seems kind of childish.

[Ole Unka Phil]

Unka,

How is the four letter fecal word in any way sexual, or harassment? Everybody Poops (remember the book from kindergarten). And last I checked... poop isn't sexually oriented.

So she filed a sexual harasment claim over a word that has no gender specific nor sexual meaning?

What a [five letter female dog word].


According to Human Resources (I use the term Human loosely in this guys case) any word that is considered by the emploee to be offensive and represents a hostile work environment, can be sexual harrasment (assuming one is male and one is female). There is a difference between Sexual Harrasement for sex and sexual harrasement because, you don't like women or you don't think women are equal or some such as that. It all under the same umbrella of charge.

Fortunately for me, I had four other women working for me at the time. And they all went to bat for me. Because why? Because I treated them with respect and dignity and as equals. She, this trouble maker, did not realize that. She never gave it a chance. She was too unstable to know right from wrong. And so she decided to make up a big lie hoping they would put her in some do nothing job and leave her to do nothing. She was afraid to have to actualy do a regular job. She had managed to hide for years from it by scaring her previous supervisors so much that she thought she could do it again and panic set in and she went this route. She knew I would not back off and she knew I would not leave myself open to anything. However guess what? She managed to cause me immeasurable hardship with NOTHING but a wild accusation. So she was smarter than they though. Eventualy I won... but it was a heavy price to pay.

I got the impression that the Lady case officer in our Human Resources dept, at the time, was totaly against the actions that the male HR officer took with me. However I was lucky in that such a hearing and investigation HAD to go through our Cheif Operations Officer. And he had to do interviews and collect REAL testimony. The accusation, unsubstantiated, was all that was required of her to initiate it. So fortunately, all I had to do was go in and give them a list of all the people that witnessed all our converstations and walk back out. And this woman HR officer was the only one that ever appologized to me. But only privately and confidentialy. In fact she was the one that told me the case was dropped I had to go in there and demand to see the results. They would not release them. I was going to have to get a lawyer to get them. They told no one nor did they bother to even call my Supervisor and tell him it was found to be without merrt. I had to threaten them with legal action to get an answer. the Male HR officer... however.... can rot in Hell and so can the Biotch that got fired. Both of them. Do I sound bitter? ;)

But as far as I know I am the only person in history to have ever been charged wtih Sexual Harrasement for saying Chit....

My moral is.... work at work and keep the chit chat down. And don't give ANYONE ANYTHING to work with. Because it don't take much. You ain't there to be the funniest guy or the most liked guy. Shut up and work.

[don miguel]

hells no, "that 21 year old paintball loving male" just rushed it too quickly. for some girls, if you wanna
( :dance: :dance: :dance: :headbang: :wow: :headbang: :dance: :dance: :dance: )
on the first "date" (if that's what you wanna call it, even though you weren't dating) they get fraked out and think your a sketch. so take it easy, just let it come to you, if it takes too long speed it up. From "that guy's" status quo, I can tell he isn't too patient. ;)

[Pneumagger]

I'm now stupider for having attempted to decypher any meaning from that abomination of random coherance.

/I want my smartz back.

[Altimas]

hells no, "that 21 year old paintball loving male" just rushed it too quickly. for some girls, if you wanna
( :headbang: :wow: :headbang: :dance: :dance: :dance: )
on the first "date" (if that's what you wanna call it, even though you weren't dating) they get fraked out and think your a sketch. so take it easy, just let it come to you, if it takes too long speed it up. From "that guy's" status quo, I can tell he isn't too patient. ;)

Noone can ever complain about people making fun of DM after he posted this. I read it twice but apparently I dont speak :tard: and can't understand it.

[MANN]

hells no, "that 21 year old paintball loving male" just rushed it too quickly. for some girls, if you wanna
( :dance: :dance: :dance: :headbang: :wow: :headbang: :dance: :dance: :dance: )
on the first "date" (if that's what you wanna call it, even though you weren't dating) they get fraked out and think your a sketch. so take it easy, just let it come to you, if it takes too long speed it up. From "that guy's" status quo, I can tell he isn't too patient. ;)


ummmm. no. You are 15 you cant give sex/ sexual behavior advice untill youve done it.

[Kyle.Kimber]

I dont agree with verbal sexual harrasment. If a woman asks a guy what he is thinking then she should be ready for a remark like that.

Sticks and Stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you.

Sticks and stones will break your bones, but words WILL HURT FOREVER. -Best Scrubs quote ever.

[don miguel]

ummmm. no. You are 15 you cant give sex/ sexual behavior advice untill youve done it.

your right, I just watch opra too much. that's where I get the info. ;)

[maxama10]

Saying you might Sexually Harass someone wasnt sexual Harasment.

Proposing to a broad isn't marriage.

Talking about robbing a bank isn't theft.

Telling someone you might kill them wasn't murder.

/Josh... I'm sexually harassing you.
//Also... this really is a hypothetical situation. I just thought about saying that line to someone today and it got my imagination running.


To my understanding, saying BOMB in an airport will get you arrested :p

same sorta thing haha

[slade]

Many years ago I had a female employee that was transfered under me that was a trouble maker from another division. I tried everything I could to not have her transferred under my supervision because I knew this. Her previous supervisors were deathly afraid of her and would not meet with her alone without another in the room. Well.... they saw transferring her to me as a way out of thier predicament rather than firing her so I ended up with her for exactly one part of one day. I was in her presence perhaps 20 minutes and always with a few witnesses.

Well she failed to show up the second day and eventualy I was hauled over to Human Resources where I was charged with Sexual Harrasment for Allegedly saying the word "S_H_E_T" (yea the Feces word) in front of her. And incredible long period of investigation it was finaly determined that I did NOT say it (remember I had witnesses every time) and that she had abandoned her job. Now... this all took like 6 months. For which time I was in limbo and was not allowed to discuss it with anyone nor was I eligible for any promotions, raises while under investigation. All someone has to do is "Accuse" you of something and your screwed for a period of time. Then, all the while, the accuser can talk his or her head off and make up anything they want but you can say nothing! So there is damage to your reputation going on all the while as well as a frozen period of your career. And in the end, if the whole thing is dropped, there is no public announcement nor any restoration of your reputation or public appology. You just are expected to move on and live with it.

Its not a pleasant thing to go through. Its something to avoid at all costs. And as you can see, even when your totaly covering your arse your still vulnerable to wild accusations. And it will damage your reputation no matter how honest and how rediculous it all is. And you can do NOTHING to prevent it except to keep yourself totaly clean. So watch what you say and do and hope for nothing like I went through.

Least you think I could have sued her in any way, your right. However she was so disturbed that any judge or jury would have concluded that she really did believe what she claimed happened. Even if it did not. And then proving damages is impossible. No one is going to admit they passed you over for a raise or promotion because of an accusation because then THEY Would be subject to disiplinary action. So your never going to get your superiors to admit that. So you screwed. All the way around.
since its far easier for a man to harass a woman than vice versa, women are given the legal benefit of the doubt. which is good, unless a woman decides to take advantage of that fact.

two years ago a girl accused a friend of mine of raping her, simply because she didnt like him. he went through all sorts of hell inside and outside of school for a year, completely ruining his life academically and personally... until they finally found out that the girl was lying. he was left to try to set everything back on course.

/you seriously got in that much trouble for saying allegedly saying something like that? my teachers say far more than that in class, not to mention the stories ive heard about guys who get summer jobs at auto body shops... which really IS sexual harassment, just against a male.

[slade]

To my understanding, saying BOMB in an airport will get you arrested :p

same sorta thing haha
remember, if you see your friend jack at an airport, don't say hi.

/worst joke evar.

[wimag]

I'm now stupider for having attempted to decypher any meaning from that abomination of random coherance.

/I want my smartz back.


considering you have to ask if your childish remark to a woman in a business setting would be construed as harrasment i would have thought you were aleady there.

[Pneumagger]

considering you have to ask if your childish remark to a woman in a business setting would be construed as harrasment i would have thought you were aleady there.

Stupid... it wasn't me.
Don't assume so much - you might mess up and sound intelligent.

[billybob_81067]

not to mention the stories ive heard about guys who get summer jobs at auto body shops... which really IS sexual harassment, just against a male.

I guess I'm missing something here? Painting, sanding and other aspects of body work is sexual harassment? EXPLAIN!

:)

[slade]

I guess I'm missing something here? Painting, sanding and other aspects of body work is sexual harassment? EXPLAIN!

:)
story from my tech teacher. kids would want a summer job and would find one at a local auto body shop. they'd want to learn about working on cars, but would spend half the summer sweeping up instead. if the kid ever complained, his boss would make a reference as to what he'd do with the broom if the kid didnt get back to sweeping.

[going_home]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/yourefired.jpg

YOU'RE FIRED !!!!!!!!!!

[going_home]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/yourefired.jpg

YOU'RE FIRED !!!!!!!!!!
YOU'RE FRIED !

[Triangle]

YOU'RE FRIED !
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/StaticKnight/NO%20U/NOU6.jpg