Questions for the marker whores/sellers

[punkncat]

So we all know that resale on everything (other than Mags) has become a joke. I wanted to ask of you folks selling what kind of trends you are noticing.

What markers other than a Mag seem to hold resale? Are there any?

How much of your investment do you see out of reselling your marker after say a year? Two?
For instance if you are buying a marker new for $1000+ what percentage of that will you actually get back? What about the $200 markers? Even take into consideration resale of purchased used markers down the road...

Do you think, given the actual resale on markers now, and the gutting of value by market forces, that high end or low end markers actually hold better value vs. initial cost?

Is there any reason to upgrade a marker anymore given that in most cases you cannot even sell the marker for the cost of the upgrades? Consider as well that most new markers come decently outfitted out of the box. That the standardization of HPA has corrected many of the problems that we upgraded markers to correct.

How do you see the current resale market affecting future new marker sales? Quality/high end sales? Is there any reason to continue buying new?

[Lohman446]

Today, you are not buying $1000 marker because it is better than a $400 marker in function, reliability, ease of maintenance, etc. You are buying it for prestige. You will probably take a 40 to 60% hit in value over one year. Kinda like buying a brand new car :)

[buzzboy]

From what I have seen most guns after being sold used once or twice retain that price. Say I buy a gun used. I could probably sell it for what I bought it for if I didn't damage it in any way. And this could go on for a while if the gun was taken care of.

I have that same worry about people not buying new markers. Really I mostly see tourney dudes and kids with parents to buy them stuff, buy new guns. Mostly I see people buying off of one of the major FST forums out there. In a way this could change how people buy guns.

[GT]

The only guns that I know of that you can get near new to new price on used are pumps and some of palmer's guns. I have not bought a new gun in years. If you want to protect your investment you can do a couple of things

1. buy cheap, new. A new 98 costs 120 bucks, used they go for 90-100. Stay under 500

2. buy used, but buy the last gen gun. Have you priced used angels latly?

3. buy new, but buy guns that are actually worth something. Usually these are guns that have not changed a lot through the years, palmer's, carters, phatoms, CCM.....

4. buy new, but buy through small dealers. I was suprised the price I got back from a few dealers for a new promaster. There is a NIB forum on pbn and it has tons of guys who are trying to move product. Hit one of them up for a price requiest.

5. buy used rare guns. Rare is subjective, and most guns guys think are rare are not. For example 1 of 1 annos doesnt mean its rare. 01-02 cocker is worth no more than 120 but a revenge will fetch the upper end of 4-500.

[Lohman446]

2. buy used, but buy the last gen gun. Have you priced used angels latly?



But if I buy an upped (TAGed, eyed) Angel LED (or whatever now) for $300 do you think its going to lose money by the end of the year? I think it goes back to your cheap thing, if your buying old enough cheap enough your not going to lose money either

[punkncat]

4. buy new, but buy through small dealers. I was suprised the price I got back from a few dealers for a new promaster. There is a NIB forum on pbn and it has tons of guys who are trying to move product. Hit one of them up for a price requiest


I am not sure if you have noticed, but most retailers are obligated to sell at a set price. Online or not, big or small.

Tippmann has been doing this for a while and NPS/PMI just started it not long ago.

Isn't it called MAP?


priced a used angel lately

Actually the inspiration for this thread. I just traded off my Angel G7, what was a $1K marker a bit over a year ago, for what amounted to about $450 in parts.
When I first got it I was offered trades for Karta's and less than 18 months later, had to give it away.
I should have seen the writing on the wall. This has been happening for some time. The paintball market is creating a trap for itself that is going to drive the entire new gun market in the ground.
How long will people cooperate in taking so much loss in their investments? I mean hell, to me loosing 60%+ of my investment after a year is disheartening.
I can remember a time not so long ago that it was lucrative to buy used equipment and do a little fix-er-up and make a profit. Nowdays even if you are GIVEN a good marker you won't get enough for it to make it worth selling.

[Lohman446]

I am not sure if you have noticed, but most retailers are obligated to sell at a set price. Online or not, big or small.

Tippmann has been doing this for a while and NPS/PMI just started it not long ago.

Isn't it called MAP?

Minimum ADVERTISED price - they can sell at whatever price they want, they cannot advertise at low prices. Thats why a call is worth so much often.

[punkncat]

Minimum ADVERTISED price - they can sell at whatever price they want, they cannot advertise at low prices. Thats why a call is worth so much often.


Perhaps I am confused with the terminnology or misunderstood what I was told.

Local shop owner now sells everything at the same price it can be found online for. Noone can undersell him on anything he carries from NPS/PMI. He and they are obligated to sell at the same price lest they get their account pulled. He can mark it up if he wishes, but cannot sell BELOW the set price.

[GT]

Minimum ADVERTISED price - they can sell at whatever price they want, they cannot advertise at low prices. Thats why a call is worth so much often.


Correct :clap:

I can dig through my pms but I think the guys sent me a quote in the 230's.



Actually the inspiration for this thread. I just traded off my Angel G7, what was a $1K marker a bit over a year ago, for what amounted to about $450 in parts.
When I first got it I was offered trades for Karta's and less than 18 months later, had to give it away.

The intresting thing about angels is that they really havnt changed all that much since the days of the v6.



But if I buy an upped (TAGed, eyed) Angel LED (or whatever now) for $300 do you think its going to lose money by the end of the year? I think it goes back to your cheap thing, if your buying old enough cheap enough your not going to lose money either

I'd buy a stock angel, wait till the battery doest hold a charge or you loose your charger and then do the tag upgrade. In all the angels i have owned eyes were unneccasary as long as you had A) good detents, B) match the loader with the speed of the gun.

[GT]

Local shop owner now sells everything at the same price it can be found online for. Noone can undersell him on anything he carries from NPS/PMI. He and they are obligated to sell at the same price lest they get their account pulled. He can mark it up if he wishes, but cannot sell BELOW the set price.


He can sell below he just can't tell anyone.

[punkncat]

:
But if I buy an upped (TAGed, eyed) Angel LED (or whatever now) for $300 do you think its going to lose money by the end of the year? I think it goes back to your cheap thing, if your buying old enough cheap enough your not going to lose money either




I'd buy a stock angel, wait till the battery doest hold a charge or you loose your charger and then do the tag upgrade. In all the angels i have owned eyes were unneccasary as long as you had A) good detents, B) match the loader with the speed of the gun.


Why would you spend, what is it?, $400 on that upgrade when you can go buy one already done for $300? Or if you look around find an A4 or even a G7 for the 350-450 range?

Thats part of what I am getting at. If prices keep falling and value going down, services that cost the kind of money like pred-ing and Angel, how much longer will there be a market for it? Especially when you can go buy a BRAND NEW marker with eyes for $200?
How much longer will it be good buisiness sense to offer parts and upgrades for markers that cost less than the parts?

[punkncat]

He can sell below he just can't tell anyone.

IF he were to be discovered selling below, then he risks loosing the ability to deal with one of the only major vendors left.
Why would any buisinessman with half a brain put themselves in that position over a few customers?

I am not saying people don't do it. But where it used to be that you could search around and find a better deal, generally online, by and large MOST places sell the same things at the same prices across the board nowdays.

[RRfireblade]

Why would you spend, what is it?, $400 on that upgrade when you can go buy one already done for $300? Or if you look around find an A4 or even a G7 for the 350-450 range?

Thats part of what I am getting at. If prices keep falling and value going down, services that cost the kind of money like pred-ing and Angel, how much longer will there be a market for it? Especially when you can go buy a BRAND NEW marker with eyes for $200?
How much longer will it be good buisiness sense to offer parts and upgrades for markers that cost less than the parts?


It's been like that since the beginning , paintball is probably equal to or worse than computer technology.

Everything new is perceivably 'better' and retails cheaper. Loses on new marker values are at least 25-35% per year or more. After 2 years old or less , your lucky to see 50% of the original value still intact. And that's mostly only on 'desirable' markers , others are worse.

The only true 'investment' is in education and not falling to the hype that a 2 year old marker is outdated and feeling the need to 'upgrade' for no real reason other than status. ;)

[Big Boy]

Guns that hold their value:

Mags
AKA
Palmers
Sheridans
CCI (mostly)

....that's all I can think of for right now.

[RRfireblade]

Guns that hold their value:

Mags
AKA
Palmers
Sheridans
CCI (mostly)

....that's all I can think of for right now.

In a nut shell , any marker that hasn't been replaced by newer and better versions. :D

I'd pull mags out of there tho , $800 retail on a new Emag and your lucky to turn it around the same day for 5.

[punkncat]

In a nut shell , any marker that hasn't been replaced by newer and better versions. :D

I'd pull mags out of there tho , $800 retail on a new Emag and your lucky to turn it around the same day for 5.


I would have to say that Mags fare far better than AKA in that list. At least with a mag you can part it and return a good bit of your original investment.
That is one marker that you can buy used and expect to get what you payed down the road. At least for now.

[Farnja]

In a nut shell , any marker that hasn't been replaced by newer and better versions. :D

I'd pull mags out of there tho , $800 retail on a new Emag and your lucky to turn it around the same day for 5.




But if you buy an Emag used for 500 you could probably sell it for 500 in a year...

[hmudd13]

I think some of the price drop on electro markers is due to the fact that a lot of people (first time E buyers) don't understand the whole board concept. :eek:
And are worried about buying a used and possibly fudged marker.
New, with warranty might look attractive over $400 without. :)

Although I did get a hardly used Evil Pimp(worth $800 new) for $300.
Seller said it didn't work and didn't know why.

2 new ball detents - $1
Bolt pin replaced properly in bolt - $0

Experience - priceless :clap:

[GT]

Why would you spend, what is it?, $400 on that upgrade when you can go buy one already done for $300? Or if you look around find an A4 or even a G7 for the 350-450 range?



You buy an lcd for 175, sell the battery and charger for around 75-100. Pred is 300, plus I believe you receive a warrenty with it. One of my rules is to not buy "custom" guns. It will never make "buisness" sense to put that kind of money into mods without keeping the gun for a long time. Besides you need to not pay retail, I think the board is only 150, then do the install yourself


IF he were to be discovered selling below, then he risks loosing the ability to deal with one of the only major vendors left.
Why would any buisinessman with half a brain put themselves in that position over a few customers?

No, the buisness man with half a brain stays in buisness. How are you supposed to be truly compatitve with map pricing? Service doesnt count for a dam thing anymore thus e-retailings bomb in sales. Price is key for survival for a lot of places right now. If NPS pulled dealers for what they know is going on they would not have anyone to buy thier products.

And its not just a couple of guys. Check pbn, do you think all of those dealers are selling at MAP, :rofl:


Mags
AKA
Palmers
Sheridans
CCI (mostly)

Mag resale is terrible, unless you part out. AKAs are turning into the next angel. If you really want to decrease depreciation then buy something that is a niche item. SFL mags, chord bodies, revenge, evos, any kind of pump....

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I would have to say that Mags fare far better than AKA in that list. At least with a mag you can part it and return a good bit of your original investment.
That is one marker that you can buy used and expect to get what you payed down the road. At least for now.

Bought an 04 Unmilled Viking with Tadao for $425 in November of 2005. In September of 2006 I sold the same gun for $425.

If you guy AKA markers used, then you will not have to worry about much depreciation.

This market thrives off of young adults, ranging from 14 to mid-20's, who find anything new is worth a few hundred dollars. If that means a new ano or milling scheme, they will pay for it. They have equipment and desperately want something new in a very short amount of time. Price it low to get the wanted equipment quickly. Also, respect from possessions on forums is greatly desired by this group as well.

[RRfireblade]

But if you buy an Emag used for 500 you could probably sell it for 500 in a year...

That's true of pretty much any current marker , the question was pertaining to resale of New.

;)

[Samurai-joker]

I think personally thier is one reason

1. supply and demand.

prices high/quanity low


The market was unsaturated at the time, and there were more buyers than sellers



now you can get ump-teen differant types of shockers, dm's, eggo's, etc.....

more quanity, more companies competeing agianst each other. gotta compete some way.

[jenarelJAM]

I'd pull mags out of there tho , $800 retail on a new Emag and your lucky to turn it around the same day for 5.
New mags from AGD come with ULE lowers, xvalve, all the goodies. I could sell mine for $500 pretty quick if I wanted to I believe, but I'm in no hurry, and am looking for a bit more. Some of the older Emags go for sub-$500, but from AGD, you get the higher-end emag. And before someone comes back and says that AGD sells them for $999 on their site, remember that you've got to watch the sales...
And I was young back then, wanted a new marker for my first... Now I'm a bit smarter. Just a bit.

[RRfireblade]

New mags from AGD come with ULE lowers, xvalve, all the goodies. I could sell mine for $500 pretty quick if I wanted to I believe, but I'm in no hurry, and am looking for a bit more. Some of the older Emags go for sub-$500, but from AGD, you get the higher-end emag. And before someone comes back and says that AGD sells them for $999 on their site, remember that you've got to watch the sales...
And I was young back then, wanted a new marker for my first... Now I'm a bit smarter. Just a bit.

True but doesn't change my point.

Up to their full release , people could and were buying DM6s , PM6s and the like for full retail and turning them right around for full retail and occasionally a tad more due to the demand and availability. That's a common practice , same is true of people liquidating marker sponserships on certain markers. Like I said , we are talking about new marker resales. Go buy a new Emag for around 800 or so (average new retail) and put it back up for sale NIB and your going to lose $2-300 right off the top. Only a handful of markers where that's not the case , most of Big Boy list for example.

Not a slam on any of them just the truth.

[Ydna]

One thing I've definitely noticed as of late is that the scenario markers don't loose their resale...nearly not at all actually. For isntance go to ebay and see how many SP8s there are available, or TAC8 / tiberius pistols. I was in the market for both of those recently and came to the realization that the majority of people that buy them....keep them.

Interesting fodder for today's speedball gunwhore vs. scenario player contrasts...

[punkncat]

One thing I've definitely noticed as of late is that the scenario markers don't loose their resale...nearly not at all actually. For isntance go to ebay and see how many SP8s there are available, or TAC8 / tiberius pistols. I was in the market for both of those recently and came to the realization that the majority of people that buy them....keep them.

Interesting fodder for today's speedball gunwhore vs. scenario player contrasts...

I have to agree with you there.

[jenarelJAM]

True but doesn't change my point.

Up to their full release , people could and were buying DM6s , PM6s and the like for full retail and turning them right around for full retail and occasionally a tad more due to the demand and availability. That's a common practice , same is true of people liquidating marker sponserships on certain markers. Like I said , we are talking about new marker resales. Go buy a new Emag for around 800 or so (average new retail) and put it back up for sale NIB and your going to lose $2-300 right off the top. Only a handful of markers where that's not the case , most of Big Boy list for example.

Not a slam on any of them just the truth.
I didn't mean to sound like I was refuting your point. As soon as I bought the gun, it dropped $200 in price. I just thought $300 was a bit much, and thought I'd say so.

[jfreak]

As for speedball gunwhores vs scenario players, I think you are going to see the same thing happen. Scenario specific equipment offerings have really taken off the past year. Once the market saturates and the demand is met, used resale will drop way off on this stuff as well.

[PsychoBaller]

.
.
.

In all the years of playing paintall, the markers that have held up their Re-Sale value the best have been Palmer's stuff.

Markers are hand-built on a one by one basis; very sturdy and dependable. Also, as they are hand-built, they are usually custom orders that take some time. Thus, they are not produced as major factory runs... but kept in small amts.



:cheers:


-baller