im sorry [Archive] - Automags.Org Online Forums

dawump

01-01-2002, 07:27 PM

I'm sorry, but this "No Hard Feellings stuff" kinda doesn't make sense to me. Forgive and Forget is a great way to live, but before we all have a group hug lets look at what has happened here.

Tom has been forced to glue himself to this forum for information, updates and damage control over New Years Eve and New Years Day. Imagine how that is going to feel? It's my perception that he takes his company very seriously - and personally. If I was in the same situation I would right now be VERY angry. I would probably have spent a sleepless night worrying about how to get word out to people, fearing that someone might get badly hurt, and worrying about the possibilities of lawsuites.

Yes, I agree that we should move on, but let's pause for thought first. Serious things happen when people play around with the truth. It sounds like ON NEW YEARS DAY the AGD staff have been trying to track this stuff down. Stores have been calling customers, and I bet some serious work has been going on to try to reproduce the problem.

That just plain sucks, and I hate the fact that Tom has had to go through it. It also isn't clear to me if this "honesty" is the result of a sudden desire to tell the truth, or the result of panic as things heat up and the deception starts to unravel.

So, Sorry for the rant. This isn't meant to be a flame in any way. I think that understanding the implications of things like this is important.

Keith.

Miscue

01-01-2002, 07:33 PM

I'm in perfect agreement with you. This is a terrible thing that has happened and I think most of us feel bad about it. This is about the last thing AGD needs. Just keep supporting AGD and hopefully things will wash out quickly... what else can we do...

Magsrule3

01-01-2002, 07:37 PM

No flame, but I dont think that was cool at all. You probally cost AGD a lot of time and money doing that. For spreading rumors that could cause serious damage to a company's reputation I think you should be banned if you arent already. I mean, Donggie was banned for spamming by mistake but this is far more serious.

shartley

01-01-2002, 07:42 PM

Agreed! (dawump)

If it was me, some people (and/or their folks) would be out some serious money and time... court time. Being grounded would be the LEAST of anyone’s worries.

Seems like too many are quick to pass out the "Good job for admitting it" stickers and gold stars of "Takes guts to step forward"... all that holds no water in my book, sorry. And if it was MY kid….. enough said.

But at least we can get the stress problem fixed. For the bolts being as new as they are, there should really be no problems anyway.. but there was. I am glad that it was not as serious (on a personal injury side) as what was thought, but am not happy that it went this far. Not happy at all.

MINIMAGMAN

01-01-2002, 07:42 PM

who deleted my post :mad:

<B>*I did. It was inappropriate, do not repeat.* -Miscue</B>
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Flamebo

01-01-2002, 07:46 PM

I'm sure a lot of damage was caused by this, and I'd hate to imagine what could have happened if this wasn't confessed to as early as it was...

Army

01-01-2002, 07:47 PM

Well, you members all know my thoughts of thieves and liars. Let it suffice, that Tom likely will not allow me to post any personal statements on this matter since I will not hold back any words that convey my contempt.

I am shaking with anger right now, because some dumb kid just cost AGD a lot of time, money, integrity, and standing amongst the paintball industry, not to mention a lot more gray hair for Tom, all because he wanted to "add to the hype".

I would love to slap his Parents.:mad:

Magsrule3

01-01-2002, 07:48 PM

I really want a Superbolt still, when do they expect to clear things up by? Are the original Superbolts with the foamies available for purchase?

p.s If he isnt banned I really recomend that he is soon.

Arman/XPM

01-01-2002, 07:53 PM

Well said.

Dawump - shartley,
I agree with you both completely.

Who knows how many visitors to this forum left with a whole new impression of AGD. And I will leave it at that.

irbodden

01-01-2002, 07:55 PM

Wow I am speechless, :mad: :eek:

What a relief for Tom though..

I knew something was fishy, luckily the kid fessed up, still like to reach thru my monitor and smack him though.

This one is for Tom's trouble, *SMACK* AND NO MORE LIEING!

magman1031

01-01-2002, 08:01 PM

Im sorry but all I can say is what the hell were you thinking? enough said.....

jah871

01-01-2002, 08:05 PM

its amazing what some people will do for bring attention to themselves. i also think he should be banned and if Tom hasnt already done so call his parents and let them know what is going on. i have a lot more to say but...

MrAirgunRT

01-01-2002, 08:21 PM

They know, believe me. Also, his parents aren't to blame Army, he is one of my friends and his parents are strict on him, they try to teach him right, and from what I knew b4 this incident is that they did a good job of it. Otherwise I totally agree with you, just smack him :)

Cha0tic

01-01-2002, 08:25 PM

ok guys, lets not start flaming. he admitted his lie, the recall has been reduced to a update, and i think this should be put behind us. i am angry too, very angry actually, but i think BONES is getting a good enough punishment from his parents. i know many probably disagree with me, but you have to put things behind you. i don't like to hold a grudge.

TRaGiKPhreaK44

01-01-2002, 08:51 PM

Im sad to say that ALEX was one of my friends too. I knew he was kinda wierd but I never thought he'd do something this STUPID. I hope he does get the punishment he deserves. After spending time with Tom and other Master Techs at ZAP this makes me feel like a bad person cuz he was a friend. O ya and so everyone knows... When talking about BonesisGod dont just say BONES, causes confusion. L8er

Magman425

01-01-2002, 09:02 PM

If Bonesis has a mag he should be stripped of it. Some people, some people.

P.S. AGD keep up the good work

Gecko

01-01-2002, 09:05 PM

ban him
thats great he came forward and he admitted it, but there has to be some reprecusions to his actions. Due to the nature of the internet any idiot can post how his bolt came flying out of his barrel and almost took his arm off. This could cause serious long term damage to AGD's rep, we all know how well the internet loves to excentuate the negative and forget the positive. I would not be surprised to see in another forum a story about how some kid got shot with a chunk of bolt 3 months from now. No matter how many people step forward and say this story is not true it will float around the net for years damaging AGD's rep. I don't see this kid adding anything to our online group of positive value.
Gecko

damageinc54

01-01-2002, 09:09 PM

You better ban this kid for what he has done. Im sorry just does not cut it. When you do something wrong you have to pay the piper. BAN HIM!!!! Punk :mad:

MJS1214

01-01-2002, 09:10 PM

ok alot of people will probably disagree with me but i think he doesnt deserve a punishment,however i have NOT,i repeat NOT heard the entire story behind this but i can partly piece it together and i think just him admitting it is enough,i know i wouldnt be able to admit it.And,i definately do NOT think he should be banned!!!!!!he made a mistake,he apologized for it,what harm was done by it?

AllAmericanMag

01-01-2002, 09:13 PM

PUNISHMENT: He has to eat the cracked superbolts...tuff but fair I think.

unseenunheard

01-01-2002, 09:15 PM

well i don't condone his lying but i also think that sometimes people forget that the internet is NOT a good source of information, in that anyone has access to the net and for this reason you never know who is writting what.
lesson for the day don't believe everything you read.
P S - i don't believe he should bare full blame, but these are just my opinions

damageinc54

01-01-2002, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by MJS1214
he made a mistake, he apologized for it ,what harm was done by it?

What harm was done by it??? Come on! Hundreds of superbolt owners getting ready to send their bolts back to AGD, AGD scratching their head as to what is wrong with their bolts, word traveling all of the forums that the superbolts are no good, damage to AGD's image. All of this because some kid wants to tell a lie like a 3 year old. I think that banning him is the least of what AGD should do.

rightsidefight

01-01-2002, 09:18 PM

is this kid baned?id really like an answer.he not only cuased agd a lot of time and money but he also cuased alot of people time and sme even money.what about the people that had to pay shipping to get there perfectly fine bolts to agd and now probably wont be able to play this weekend becaue some little kid had tofeel important and make up a lie.and to all of you people who are rewarding this kid.....he may have came out and confessed but thats not important.he didnt do it to feel good and b man.he did it so he wouldnt get caught later on and be in big trouble.im not trying to flame buti am so pissed right now i wish i could do something about this kid.what i want to know is what agd is doing abou this.are they takin legal action?if not why?that damn kid wasted alot of time and money that you shouldnt have had to spare.although all of this did happen i jus want to give 2 thumbs up to the whole crew at agd and tom for handeling this so quickly,proffesionaly,and seriously.ok im done now.

chris

irbodden

01-01-2002, 09:20 PM

To be honest, what kind of punishment is "banning" him? It's not our job or duty to punish him, we aren't his parents, nor do we even know who this kid is. I am sure this kid feels like "dog doo doo" for what he did and the result of it. We should be thankful that the Superbolts are infact safe, and allow little Bonzy-wonzys parents to kick the crap out of him. Enough said :rolleyes:

MJS1214

01-01-2002, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by damageinc54

What harm was done by it??? Come on! Hundreds of superbolt owners getting ready to send their bolts back to AGD, AGD scratching their head as to what is wrong with their bolts, word traveling all of the forums that the superbolts are no good, damage to AGD's image. All of this because some kid wants to tell a lie like a 3 year old. I think that banning him is the least of what AGD should do.

hey r u forgetting that the superbolts were already cracking??they were going to recall anyway werent they??

Nitroduck

01-01-2002, 09:31 PM

I hope Im not flaming but heres my feelings on this....While trying to keep my name calling to a minimum.

Bones, I hate to say it but you are a moron for doing this.

Do you realize the fallout you could bring, or have brought on the great company known as Airgun Designs?
Because of YOUR actions, you made a great company, and a great man (tom) recall ALL the superbolts for a period of time. Who knows how many shipped thiers to AGD? 1? 5? 50? 500? Its going to cost AGD ALOT of cash to get those shipped back.....Even at $1 a pop, it could have been used to further the progression of the Anti-Chop Eye, Emag production, Minimag production, ect. But its not because you did something very stupid, bring a slanderous accusation of a product being faulty and could cause great injury to a person or equipment.

You also need to consider the reprocussions of what you did. You forced Tom to recall them. Because of this, I've seen a few non-AO people talk about this. This can bring reprocussions on the Superbolt sales remendously. Now AGD could possibly have a reputation of briging half-cocked products to the market. Remember SP Impulses and the problems they had when they started out? They got tons of flames and fallout for the first few having faults and because of that, I am certain that thier sales were lower than expected...Don't you think the same thing can happen because of one mans slanderous accusations of a product actually causing harm can do the same?

Are you going to pay for return shipping for the people that sent thier bolts into AGD because of a lie YOU created?

Even though I don't own a superbolt, I thought the idea was grand. Yes, a few have had problems, but when someone creates hype about SOMEONE GETTING HURT it makes me very angry. What if someone were to copy cat you and claim thier <insert other gun> had a faulty regulator and causes a gun to spike and cause injury to someone. You really need to think about what you did and make repcompense for the actions you have partaken in. Saying that you lied is a start....But are you going to do more?

Vegeta

01-01-2002, 09:51 PM

Alright... heres my view:
1. It was childish of him to make it up.
2. It was man of him to admit it.
3. It was foolish in the first place.
4. It will cost AGD and Tom alot of money and time.

So he was an idiot that made a big ding dang mistake.
The person I feel sorry for the most is Tom. I remeber hearing him in the chat pondering over the superbolt problem at midnight on NEW YEARS. While most of you were watchign the TV or out at parties, he was here trying to figure all this stuff out.

(on a slight humor note, I have never head anyone "Downgrading to an Upgrade" ... heh...)

FooTemps

01-01-2002, 09:55 PM

Bones, you're an idiot. Maybe you should pay shipping for every bolt shipped back to AGD and maybe you should email everyone who owns an automag or has hear about the superbolt problem an apology.
That's a punishment. Let see, about $700 out of your pocket and about 4 months of your free time trying to find every person who knows about the problem and emailing them. I think this is a fit punishment. Banning someone does nothing.

Shaft

01-01-2002, 10:01 PM

Now what if something does happen?

What was this guy thinking?!?! I can't even conceive the motivation for lying about something like this. It freaks me out.

Magman425

01-01-2002, 10:02 PM

Why are people on this kids side. Oh wait but I forgot since he came forward about his lie he's a man, that's bs. Also if I were his parents I would beat the living crap out of him. I hope AGD takes legal action against him to stop any copy cat stories. If they don't I think there telling every other retard out there that it's alright to wreck AGD's reputation just so they can get there 15 min. of fame.

M-a-s-sDriver

01-01-2002, 10:15 PM

But what the hell.
I think ALL of you could learn a lesson from this.
Forums such as these are a form of entertainment. If you, or I view it as anything other than that, then you will learn hard lessons. Look how outraged and disappointed we are with this KID...yes kid... that he lied to you. You don't know him, he certainly does not know us, yet some of us here, including Mr. Kaye, whom I respect, believed something he said. The fact is, you can say whatever you want on these pages, and someone will believe it.
The only reason I bring this up in this manner is to hopefully disuade you from taking these things so personnally, as if you have been attacked by a friend. Unless you actually, for real, in real life know someone on the board here, I would urge you not to read things on this forum not as if it were gospel, but rather as a novel.
I personnally know only one person on this forum (MAUI PFB),and him I trust. I have no concrete evidence that anyone here is either who or what they say. You don't even know for sure who I am, or who ARMY is (hey, those could be pics of his uncle) or anyone else.
Maybe it would be nice if we did'nt help Mr. Kaye out as much as we think we should.

If that REALLY IS Tom Kaye...ahem.

So, I will have another beer, Do my Taxes, and become angrier with every passing moment.
Brent Jackson, PFB.

irbodden

01-01-2002, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by M-a-s-sDriver
Maybe it would be nice if we did'nt help Mr. Kaye out as much as we think we should.

Tom Kaye is very appreciative of our help, this is the first time something like this has happend, and to be honest I thought there was alittle something fishy with this kid. Had he not admitted it right away, I am sure someone would have figured it out.

Tom watches these forums for our input and ideas, and thats why he bought it and why he offers contests for us every once in a while.

Hopefully, this problem will not change the position we were once in to present with Tom new ideas and input on upcoming products.

spawnboy

01-01-2002, 11:29 PM

That is all this person did. He probably is being punished in many forms, this forum being one of them. But unfortunatly his biggest loss is the fall of support that this sport will have for him. His consience will remind him of what he did forever. Even if it was a big deal or not to some of us. I don't know Mr. Kaye. I didn't even own a mag for the 8 years I've been in paintball. But I have always drooled over the quality and craftmanship of the mag. It was like the holy grail when I started in 93; anyway my point is the good will prevail. Thanks for coming forward Bone*ead. I will meet Mr. Kaye, because I am the SPAWNBOY! You Bones may have slit your own throat.

Spawner

damageinc54

01-02-2002, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by MJS1214

hey r u forgetting that the superbolts were already cracking??they were going to recall anyway werent they??

Get you facts straight before quoting. The superbolts were only recalled because somebody had supposedly got hurt by one. That was the reason for the recall, not the cracking delrin. The recall has been called off because the kids claim of getting hurt was a hoax. Get it right.

toymyster

01-02-2002, 02:32 AM

MJS, he deserves to be punished!!! Whatever his reasons were for concocting a story like that, is irrelevant!! His "story" caused , or almost caused a major panic in a business during the holiday season, and he needs to be punished for what he's done!!! I'm 100% with Dawump, shartly, and the rest on this one!!! I mean, what were you thinking??? And I hope you learn from this for the future!!!

ThePatriot

01-02-2002, 04:45 AM

Ok, if someone could fill me in on what happened in a manner that wouldnt flame anyone or make anyone angry that would be great. I havent really been following AO and i saw this and now i am very curious as to what exactly happened.

As for lying....all I can tell you is, i can understand why he would do it, i exadurate things ALL THE TIME to people to make myself seem like the victim, this was done at a much higher level though(again im not sure exactly what happened, im assuming from i have read) I think he only apologized because he was afraid, i know i would be. Normally the comment he made would have been disregarded but because it was followed up and all this happened he freaked. Perhaps the authorities called his house asking about a superbolt injury for a report to file....who knows, his apology was not said because he was sorry, it was to prevent his arse from getting into a bigger web of problems...

hardr0ck68

01-02-2002, 05:56 AM

LOL i find this all very funny
LIKE NONE OF YOU HAVE LIED ON AN ONLINE FORUM...weather your one of the 180+ dopes that said you had an e-mag when there were only like 80 of them out on a limited basis, or tellin some story of grandure (i bunkered all of the all americans one day...they were gonna let me on the team but i declined) or if its in your sig, where you have 20 high end low production guns listed...there are only so many (C and C angels and free flow cockers out there, not everyone on the boards can have 2) this kid just told a lie that got out of hand....lord cut him a break. the real problem here in my eyes is that AGD has produced a less than top quality product. I know there trying to fix it, but they released it without enough testing...this is very unlike them, thats what upsets me i buy agd for the quality, not the flash or the ROF or anything else if there gonna start lettin quality slide for other stuff maybe its time i go angle like the rest of the known world... now lets all take a deep breat, relax out spinters, change our sigs (sorry but my #0003 bone-break, C and C, lcd angel is really a 1997 spyder with an x-chamber)and let the boy live down his friggin mistake....remember let he without sin toss the first superbolt!

PsychoMag

01-02-2002, 07:00 AM

this isnt a flame, but that was childish. The players and friends on this forum are here to make paintball a safe and fun activity for all, whether a rec. player, newbie, or touney player, the objective is safe, honest, paintball. What is to happen if an upset mother saw the recall? we all know the power of false information, especially when it could cause harm. Remember the rumor of the RT? I still hear today on the field about the RT being a blender, that rumor is years old. I know this information is on other forums and it needs to be corrected. It is a sad day on the forums for AGD again. Think about your actions and who they will affect before you act. Tom Kaye is one of the most dedicated members of the community and this was uncalled for.

::stepping down from soapbox in disgust::

just my $.02

Butterfingers

01-02-2002, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by hardr0ck68
LOL i find this all very funny
LIKE NONE OF YOU HAVE LIED ON AN ONLINE FORUM...weather your one of the 180+ dopes that said you had an e-mag when there were only like 80 of them out on a limited basis, or tellin some story of grandure (i bunkered all of the all americans one day...they were gonna let me on the team but i declined) or if its in your sig, where you have 20 high end low production guns listed...there are only so many (C and C angels and free flow cockers out there, not everyone on the boards can have 2) this kid just told a lie that got out of hand....lord cut him a break. the real problem here in my eyes is that AGD has produced a less than top quality product. I know there trying to fix it, but they released it without enough testing...this is very unlike them, thats what upsets me i buy agd for the quality, not the flash or the ROF or anything else if there gonna start lettin quality slide for other stuff maybe its time i go angle like the rest of the known world... now lets all take a deep breat, relax out spinters, change our sigs (sorry but my #0003 bone-break, C and C, lcd angel is really a 1997 spyder with an x-chamber)and let the boy live down his friggin mistake....remember let he without sin toss the first superbolt!

A mistake that very well could have cost AGD THOUSANDS to remedy. Not to mention lost sales from the bad rep. Now the superbolt recall will float with the rumors that cockers have more range. Do you know how long that myth has been around?

Ill give him a break when he pays for the losses that AGD incurred, aplologizes for the lost sleep and added stress that came during the HOLIDAY SEASON, and pays for a televison commercial and any additional marketing that will help AGD clear its name.

Sorry this isnt exactly a little white lie. This cost lots of people money, time, and stress.

So what you are saying is that if he committed fraud he shouldent be punished cause he apologized, sorry we live in the real world. We have real reprecussions for our actions.

tremis

01-02-2002, 08:54 AM

hmmmm....figures. If anybody read my posts in the thread about the recall, you'll know I'm not suprised. Nobody likes an " I told you so" so I wont say it.

(But I guess i already did:D )

Tremis

Webmaster

01-02-2002, 09:15 AM

I would like to say a few words to put things in perspective...

First of all - all of you are responsible for what you "say" and type on this forum. Believe it or not - what you do may effect other people on the forum.

While AGD did have problems with SOME of the superbolts - overall the product was doing fine. They could quickly replace what was broken and work to making it more reliable for all.

No one gets sued over a product that breaks and is replaced.

People do get sued if thier product injures another person. Lying about this is extremely vile in my eyes. Its akin to crying wolf or screaming fire in a theatre. While I know Tom takes everything with a grain of salt on here, he can not afford to when it comes to a safety issue. In terms a lawsuits etc, one must PROMPTLY respond to a safety issue to prevent both injuries and lawsuits.

What this kid did is I am sure illegal. I am not sure if its "lible" - but making false statments is a crime. And there HAS been people arrested for this in the past. I know of one case where someone made false statements on a stock forum and artificially drove up a bum stock so he could cash out. The was arrested and I think is serving jail time.

I dont know what Tom is planning to do, but this is WAY beyond a harmless prank. It cost real money in terms of resources and time. I dont know what good a lawsuit would do against someone whose most valuable possesion is a PlayStation 2.

But I do think this should all be an example for us - on this forum and in life. That what we do effects others and that we will be held responsible for those actions.

irbodden

01-02-2002, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by hardr0ck68
LOL i find this all very funny
LIKE NONE OF YOU HAVE LIED ON AN ONLINE FORUM...weather your one of the 180+ dopes that said you had an e-mag when there were only like 80 of them out on a limited basis, or tellin some story of grandure (i bunkered all of the all americans one day...they were gonna let me on the team but i declined) or if its in your sig, where you have 20 high end low production guns listed...there are only so many (C and C angels and free flow cockers out there, not everyone on the boards can have 2) this kid just told a lie that got out of hand....lord cut him a break. the real problem here in my eyes is that AGD has produced a less than top quality product. I know there trying to fix it, but they released it without enough testing...this is very unlike them, thats what upsets me i buy agd for the quality, not the flash or the ROF or anything else if there gonna start lettin quality slide for other stuff maybe its time i go angle like the rest of the known world... now lets all take a deep breat, relax out spinters, change our sigs (sorry but my #0003 bone-break, C and C, lcd angel is really a 1997 spyder with an x-chamber)and let the boy live down his friggin mistake....remember let he without sin toss the first superbolt!

This "lie" involved the owner of a company, a team of lawyers, and a huge bill NOT some kid making up what he got for Christmas. Second, most memebers on this board are thruthful, for example Muzicman who "claims" to have the most ultra rare guns DOES. He's got a guncase the size of Texas filled with these pieces of paintball history. So before pointing the finger at everyone else, realize what a moron kid this is, and how much he costed AGD. It was a stupid thing to do, and I hope is parents are punishing him.

Does anyone know roughly how old this kid is anyways?

Dragoon

01-02-2002, 09:55 AM

Webby I agree with your post.

If someone did this to my company I would seriously consider a liable suit. Not to regain direct costs associated with the lie/recall, but to regain lost reputation by loudly and publicly exposing the culprit.

Douglas

cphilip

01-02-2002, 10:16 AM

Gee...darn it@! I am off for a day or so and don't get to exercise my pessimism...

I want to remind you that a few others jumped right on the band wagon on this one too reporting problems. I wanna see those too now.

Disgusting behavior...I am just plain appalled by this. I don't know what to say.

To all of us from AO I am so very sorry this happened Tom.

MrStrike

01-02-2002, 10:40 AM

There is one fallout that hasent been said about this issue. I think Automags.org has lost a lot of credibility with Mr. Kaye. (I assume)From this point on EVERY post Mr. Kaye reads there will be a small nagging doubt in the back of his mind asking "is this true or another lie?".
After reading this SUPERBOLT SAGA I too will be asking the same question on every post I read.

dawump

01-02-2002, 10:49 AM

If this was my company I would be sueing.. I wouldn't take it all the way to court, but I would take legal steps to create publicity so that the amount of exposure was GREATER than the amount of exposure created by the desception to turn this around to positive PR. I support AGD in doing this also.

Let's put this in perspective. The only person who has been "honest" here is Tom. To take the step of announcing a product recall based on the possibility of Injury or Death is a HUGE step for a company. It is the worst POSSIBLE scenario for any company, and for that reason many companies don't do it even when the risk is real. Just look at the Auto industry where there are many documented cases where calculations have been made which show that recall will cost more than the lawsuites, so they just sit on it.

So, what Tom did was a big-cahoonies step. It is disgusting that he had to go through this when the information wasn't correct.

It's also clear from the first message in this thread and others that AGD didn't just sit around reading this forum, they called this guy on the phone and got the facts straight. I think that in doing this they worked out that this was all bull.

For example, in hindsight look at the information in the original thread. From what we know about how the marker works what are the chances that the power tube pin ( or whatever it is called ) and the tip of the bolt sailed 35 yards? Pretty slim. This is much smaller than the barrel ID. Also, when Tom requested that the bolt be sent in this guy said that his friend disgarded it. Now what is the chance of that?

The damage is done though.

My vote would be to release the story. That would ensure that those who have heard about this already get the facts, and those that havn't get to see that doing stuff like this is dumb.

Keith

irbodden

01-02-2002, 11:14 AM

For a second, I thought pressuring APG and other paintball magazines to publish an article about this, but we are just bringing this kid more fame. I say drop the issue, and possibly spread the news that there was a misunderstanding.

Another thing, and I am going out on a limb here, did anyone notice all the guys who posted about a "broken" Superbolt, had under 100 posts? I know its not fair to say that a higher post count makes you a more honest person, but why hasn't anyone elses Superbolt cracked? I know Xzion got his at the tour, and thus had one of the first Superbolts, why isn't his broken?

My theory is that the first guys might have broken, and than the rest of the people cried wolf, expecting Tom to ship out a new Superbolt ASAP, and trying to get some free stuff. It *may* not be true, but I don't see why no regulars have had their Superbolts trashed. Infact on the night of the recall, in the chat, everyone was talking about how angry they were. How one guy has put 20k shots on his, and there is hardly a problem, another member commented on how is gun will not be complete with out his Superbolt, and why it was such an amazing upgrade. Before everyone makes up their mind on who's fault it is, we should find out more facts.

Vegeta

01-02-2002, 11:14 AM

They should ban him from even touching a computer for like 5 years. Hackers are punished that way if cuaght. They get cuaght touching a computer, even if its for a good reason, boom.. in jail again.

skipdogg

01-02-2002, 11:48 AM

What the heck is wrong with people.
This makes me sick. I feel terrible for AGD and for TOM!

My opinion is that YES the kid has learned his lesson... BUT as part of his punishment he should reimburse AGD for ALL money lost, and personally write a letter to EVERY AO member and apologize!!!!!!!!!!!

Magsrule3

01-02-2002, 12:26 PM

On this side of the sup-air field- Mr.Kaye, Rob, BlackVCG, and the rest of the AGD staff. On the dark side-bones. Remember gentlemen the refs will look the other way for you guys if you need to raise your velocity or put your Emags on full auto. But his talon is locked.

Thordic

01-02-2002, 12:27 PM

My comments on this issue will remain unsaid because I'm making an effort to behave. I pretty much agree with most people here though.

Webby - If you are talking about Jonathan Lebed, he's not in jail. As a matter of fact, he made out with around $750,000 even after SEC fines.

He lives in my town, used to be friends with my brother, I coached him in baseball for a few years, and his mother works with my parents.

damageinc54

01-02-2002, 12:28 PM

I bought my superbolt at the tour. I have only shot about 1000 balls with it. It did not crack but it did break paint like mad! I am hoping that is because it was too long. I have cut it down to the same size as the longnose bolt that came with my EMag. I have not used it since. It is rather cold in Chicago right now and I hate playing at CCP so I will not be able to really hammer on it until late February, early March. If I have problems with mine you will know about it.

irbodden

01-02-2002, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Butterfingers

Mine was the first report. My superbolt will be going back to AGD along with my broken charger and battary.

My superbolt cracked, there was no sleve flying out nothing but what I thought was bolt stick.

AGD does not send new stuff out unless they have youre CC number or the broken product has been returned. They give you 3 weeks to do so before they charge you for the merchandise.

You were also the first guy to report it, you *could have* inspired many guys to bluff the problem.

Butterfingers

01-02-2002, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by irbodden

You were also the first guy to report it, you *could have* inspired many guys to bluff the problem.

Maybe, but my problem was genuine and I reported it honesestly.

I cant help it if some punk kid decides to make it into a game of telephone.

:) :) :)

irbodden

01-02-2002, 01:19 PM

No, I know you had a cracked Superbolt, but when the punk kids saw you doing it, it may have caused them them to claim they too owned a cracked Superbolt.

damageinc54

01-02-2002, 01:35 PM

Irbodden, you are out of line trying to put this on Butterfingers. He had an honest problem and he reported it. If some punk kid decided to make a game out of it that is not Butterfingers fault. This is the first place I would have reported it too. That is part of why this forum is here.

irbodden

01-02-2002, 01:40 PM

How do you figure I am putting it on Butterfinger, I am saying once the problem was revealed, many of these guys had a copycat problem. Butterfinger did what's right, but many of the other problems I am SURE are "bs". I am sorry if I sounded like I was blamming him, but I don't see how you got that?

Hexis

01-02-2002, 02:00 PM

That's how it read to me as well.

irbodden

01-02-2002, 02:08 PM

Honestly, I cant see how it reads that way, because if I did, I would edit it.

I believe Butterfingers case was real, and the others could have bluffed or *maybe* telling the truth. I do not know, however I do infact doubt that all these problems are legit.

Butterfingers

01-02-2002, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by irbodden
How do you figure I am putting it on Butterfinger, I am saying once the problem was revealed, many of these guys had a copycat problem. Butterfinger did what's right, but many of the other problems I am SURE are "bs". I am sorry if I sounded like I was blamming him, but I don't see how you got that?

Dont worry about it irbodden, I didnt take any offense. I know you werent trying to blame me.

Punk kids making up stories has got all of us antsy today. Thats the problem they don't think before they act. Need to teach them a good lesson in empathy.

brian terry

01-02-2002, 02:29 PM

the kid was not lieing abought a tec going to his house tuesday i did go to his home ,and look at his gun ,thats all i can say for now guys....

fenris69

01-02-2002, 02:32 PM

slow down guys...there is a limit to this.
The kid buggered up good.
He's now getting nailed for that.
His parents may suffer additional problems because of this.
How shocking is this really? people lie all the time...this forum has been more or less free of this curse, but go checkout pbnation , tell me you don't want to lay the boot to some little weasel after about 10 min.
hey...it happens. I'm just thinking it's time to say "thank god it's a hoax" and get back to not expressing our collective righteous anger and/or flaming the turd. not like he'll be able to read this for about 6months :) (yknow...if he were mine that is)

OldSchoolMag

01-02-2002, 02:46 PM

Thank God it's a hoax.:)
When I get the cash, you better believe I'd have a Super Bolt in my RT.

Butterfingers

01-02-2002, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by fenris69
...I'm just thinking it's time to say "thank god it's a hoax" and get back to not expressing our collective righteous anger and/or flaming the turd...

But, lighting crap on fire is FUN!

Russ

01-02-2002, 02:56 PM

Well, thanks a lot BonesisaGod. You cost me return shipping, plus the neat foam envelope I sent the bolt in. $5.50 total. Now AGD will have to spend another 4-5 bucks to ship it back to me.

For cryin' out loud, BAN THIS KID! Set an example. He is a...

Well, 'nuff said

:mad:

irbodden

01-02-2002, 03:10 PM

Like I said before, banning him does NOTHING. I doubt his parents will even let him set foot near computer for years to come. Another soultion must be created.

XspyX

01-02-2002, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Webmaster
First of all - all of you are responsible for what you "say" and type on this forum. Believe it or not - what you do may effect other people on the forum.

For some reason I think I can realate to that...:eek:

Anyway, what this guy did was wrong. I'm pretty sure he is feeling pretty crappy right now. I know I would.

the JoKeR

01-02-2002, 03:23 PM

A lot of people sure are being nice under the circumstances. If the moderators weren't watching this thread like a hawk, you'd see what people really have to say about the incident. Overall, I'd say Tom and AGD in general have done more for their customers than any other manufacturer I've seen. How many other companies actually have the president on-line asking and actually USING feedback from their customers? Sure doesn't happen anywhere I've ever worked. How fast will Tom respond now and what kind of value will he put on the feedback from posters on AO now? This kid caused Tom not only a lot of wasted time, but probably a lot of money as well (product development, man hours, R&D in other areas, and the big one: lawyers). My opinion is that Tom's lawyers should seek some restitution from the guilty. Not necessarily money, but volunteer time with local shelters, etc to make up for it. THEN forgive and forget it. Kids will be kids, but they have to learn the hard way at times. Grounding doesn't mean squat and parents can't stop their kids from doing stupid things. I hate to think my kids would ever do anything like this....

pumpamatic

01-02-2002, 04:25 PM

I don't feel any bit sorry for this kid, but on some forums you see cases of this every single day. Granted, what he did was much worse. But still, places like PBReview, these people are either lying or have no care for anything they own.
I, for one, believe he should be punished by someone more than his parents. People definetely need to think of the consequences. With all these stories of the superbolt cracking, I thought AGD had really made junk. Guess most everybody was wrong.

zads27

01-02-2002, 05:17 PM

If I had a dollar for everytime people did dumb stuff like this, I'd be a very rich person.

If I had a hammer for everytime people did dumb stuff like this.. well, the mods don't want me to say what I'd do with the hammer...

Turbo

01-02-2002, 05:24 PM

Bones getting banned would be the least of the problems for him. Bones better just hope this doesn't cost him money if AGD takes legal action (if they can, and if they can I hope they do). This kid should be punished far worse than just getting punished from his parents or spanked or whatever they're doing to him. He should do some sort of work service and/or pay money to AGD for the problems caused by his lie. This just makes me disgusted that this was all started by a kid "who just wanted some attention."

HoppysMag

01-02-2002, 06:45 PM

un my eyes he shouldnt have lied and he better personaly write tom an opology letter and pray that tome dosnt take legal action.

Personally if i was tom i would call him in to meet me, tell his side of the story, have him apologize then hopefully, just say " Go now you are forgiven" and have some of his Chronies drag him out by his ankles.

-§on-

01-02-2002, 07:11 PM

Why would someone do that? Why did you have the need to lie about the whole story? Thats kinda put the Company of AGD down...You should be ashamed, very ashamed...

dio91

01-02-2002, 07:16 PM

i wanna read what this kid said. from what im skimming through, the superbolts are being recalled and some kid caused a lot of trouble by sayin he was hit with one? lemme know if im wrong cause i usually am. if you have the link to his story, send that too

thanks

dio

irbodden

01-02-2002, 07:23 PM

Basically, they WERE recalled, until they exposed his story as a lie. His fib has caused a rather large pain in the "butt" to many users.

KayleAGD

01-02-2002, 08:46 PM

Well everyone else seems to have flamed BONES so I will pick on the rest of you. If you get nothing else from all of this mess, this I hope you keep.
This forum has become a large part of Tom K and. Airgun in general. Tom spends hours every day reading and posting on here. He Is using this to get input from the outside world.In this case the information was bad. After seeing the results from the posts you should think about how serious Tom is about your input from this forum and post according to your true feelings about the products and services.
I guess what I am getting at is use this forum as a gathering place for paintball players and friends. Let Tom do his job and you do yours by feeding good information to the board.
Knowing how important the company and this site is to Tom it is a shame it was used to ruin his and his loved ones holiday. I wish there was a way to get it back but there isn't. We just need to make sure this doesn't happen again.

ok I'm done
Kayle Malcom

the JoKeR

01-02-2002, 09:06 PM

Well that just took away a lot of heat from the fire...:)

To help make up for Tom's bad holiday season, I'm donating my $.30 to him by purchasing a whole bunch of parts for my RT yesterday (which should be here tomorrow!) hehehe

FDB1

01-02-2002, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by irbodden
For a second, I thought pressuring APG and other paintball magazines to publish an article about this, but we are just bringing this kid more fame. I say drop the issue, and possibly spread the news that there was a misunderstanding.

Another thing, and I am going out on a limb here, did anyone notice all the guys who posted about a "broken" Superbolt, had under 100 posts? I know its not fair to say that a higher post count makes you a more honest person, but why hasn't anyone elses Superbolt cracked? I know Xzion got his at the tour, and thus had one of the first Superbolts, why isn't his broken?

My theory is that the first guys might have broken, and than the rest of the people cried wolf, expecting Tom to ship out a new Superbolt ASAP, and trying to get some free stuff. It *may* not be true, but I don't see why no regulars have had their Superbolts trashed. Infact on the night of the recall, in the chat, everyone was talking about how angry they were. How one guy has put 20k shots on his, and there is hardly a problem, another member commented on how is gun will not be complete with out his Superbolt, and why it was such an amazing upgrade. Before everyone makes up their mind on who's fault it is, we should find out more facts.

I would also like to add, that I have 10k cycles through my gun with my superbolt, and never had a problem.
I didn't even know there was a problem with it till i checked the site.

BlackVCG

01-02-2002, 11:13 PM

A few said they haven't seen everything BONESisAgod posted on this issue and I figure it'd set it in a little more for a few people to see how deliberate this lying was, so here I compiled from the earliest date his posts on the issue up to the "I'm sorry" thread. Added in a couple of AGD's questions directed to BONESisAgod to clarify the later posts by him.

Originally posted by BONESisAgod
Miscue and Titan, I totally agree that it needs time...well, i used to think that way until i got hit with one in a game. Luckily it was a long shot on my friends part and it nailed me right in the shoulder. It drew blood and left a big bruise but ill be fine. I know AGD tests their products before they hit the market but maybe they should make the tests a little more rigorous. Im just thankful i didnt get hit in the lenses or the throat (not to mention the privates)

Originally posted by AGD
Bones,

You got hit with a Superbolt from long range and it drew blood? Please give me the specifics on this. I need a lot of detail.

AGD

Originally posted by BONESisAgod
im not sure the exact name of everything but ill do my best. It was probably about a 35 yard shot. We were shooting in the vacinity of 300fps. The thing inside the bolt (the thing that hits the ball and the little metal stick) flew out. He had just filled his tank and was at about 4400psi. The sleeve on his bolt wasnt cracked but a small piece was missing. His field strip screw was loose and he was double shooting. He had a freak barrel on an RT Pro vert feed. A 68/45 Max-Flo tank. It was about 28 degrees outside. I dont know what else to say, what else do you wanna know?

Originally posted by BONESisAgod
I think that 1 major thing that made tom decide to recall was in a former thread (My Superbolt broke!?!) I said i was hit by the inner part of the bolt (round thing that hits the ball and the steel stick). If you are wondering if these things could kill its easy to see, just look at my shoulder. If i had my cam with me i would show the damage (bruse and small flesh wound). Good call Tom, I was hit less than a foot from my throat and eyes. VERY SMART!!!

Originally posted by BONESisAgod
it kind of feels like pumping a pellet gun up to about 20 pumps and shooting yourself in the arm from point blank. Trust me, it isnt pleasent. Plus, If it were someone else instead of me, there may have been a lawsuit. But im not doin anything that would put AGD in jeapordy of going out of business. ROCK ON TOM!!! By the way, try titanium instead of steel for a superbolt. Its 3 times stronger than steel with less than half the weight.

Originally posted by BONESisAgod
exactly, but i had never heard of anyone shooting out the metal tube inside the bolt. The only thing that saved me from a puncture wound was the thing on the tip of the bolt. Im just glad i was the one hit and not someone with a good lawyer, lol

Originally posted by BONESisAgod
Pro, they are fallin apart without warning and in some freak cases they are shooting delrin and steel at 300fps. I dont know about anyone else but i got hit.

Originally posted by AGD
Bones,

You need to make sure the guy that shot you with the bolt sends both pieces back to us for examination.

Everyone else say where you bought it even if it was AGD.

AGD

Originally posted by BONESisAgod
If im not mistakin he threw it away, but i dont know. If he still has it i will have him send it in, and if he did throw it away, i will draw a crude pic of what it looked like.

Originally posted by BONESisAgod
yea, i was out, the bolt was following a ball in the air. But to stay on the humerouse side, Tom, maybe you should start making paint in the shape of the insides of the bolts, those things are accurate!

Originally posted by BONESisAgod
To Tom's Lawyers-
Well, from a friend of mine who works at AGD, he told me that Tom's lawyers had kind of overblown what I said about my superbolt injury. Aparently they thought someone had gotten an arm blown off. Maybe I did make my injury sound a little more severe than it was, but I didnt lie about it. I got a bruise about the size of a dime and a small scratch that has already healed. There is only a small red trace of a scrape now and the bruise is gone. The only thing I have to remind me of the injury is a small cramp in my shoulder. I hope this clears something up and if you are one of Tom's lawyers, lighten up on him a little...

Thanks

TheBigRaguPB4L

01-03-2002, 12:54 AM

well everyone's saying that he should be banned. i know if i were that kid, i wouldn't ever post here again. and if i where his parents and knew about this(and i've been told that they do), i wouldn't let the kid on the computer either. but that's just me. i don't have any kids so i'm not going to go there but i still don't understand why this had to go on the way it did. these things happen. people have been saying that this is going to hurt AGD's rep but the way i figure, it could only help. Tom Kaye took action to quell any more incidents that could have occured due to one fabricated story that he was told from one of his customers. he didn't even confirm it or worry about the losses he would have to endure($$$) before he immediately took responsibility to right a wrong he thought he had commited. i don't know about anybody else, but i think that shows an extreme amount of responsibility and character. i think the majority of people would have been more worried about what it would have cost them than what could happen to other people. i just feel that this should exlempify how good AGD's customer service and their responsibility and respect they show towards their customers. so i say great job to a great company.

Russ

01-03-2002, 01:02 AM

Thanks for putting that together, BlackVCG.

That's a form of terrorism! :mad: Claiming personal injury and insinuating lawsuits. Pretty rotten of Bones, for sure.

I wish we could all just put this behind us.

Dubstar112

01-03-2002, 06:46 AM

Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that he learned his lesson already, and by coming forth he did us all a favor. I say just let him be, and get on with AO.

mountaindud

01-03-2002, 08:42 AM

Thanks BlackVCG for putting that together. I saw the last quote in a forum but it was closed and sent to thi one. It's just amazing that someone would lie like that not thinking that they'd get busted or that AGD wouldn't want the bolt back. But more importantly the extra work Tom and his crew have been doing. I think we've pretty much beat a dead horse in this thread. (Mostly people like me that rephrase everything that everyone else said) This is my last post here and I don't want to even look at this thread anymore. We're giving this little kid just (I don't know how old he is - I'm guessing 3) too much attention which is what he wanted in the first place. Bottom line I'm disgusted and that kid better just hope he doesn't find me in front of his bunker staring down my Lapco at my perfectly fine Superbolt from the best team of paintball marker/warp feed/compressed air/and UPGRADES!!! E.G. SUPERBOLT!!! manufacturers. (I was talking about AGD) Mike has spoken feel the power of the upgraded automag.