2007 Euromag

[andy@fatbobs]

So the mag is a mech and doesn't have a high BPS rate right?.....Wrong!!

Have a look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYEwRRK5NWI

[warbeak2099]

Wow a mech mag with a high input pressure causing mad bounce. No one has seen that before. Where can I run out and buy one of these "NEW" mags?

[neppo1345]

So the mag is a mech and doesn't have a high BPS rate right?.....Wrong!!

Have a look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYEwRRK5NWI

That is clearly digitally edited video.

Since WE ALL know a mechanical mag CANNOT shoot that fast.

/We still love you new guy.
//You'll learn.

[andy@fatbobs]

That is clearly digitally edited video.

Since WE ALL know a mechanical mag CANNOT shoot that fast.

/We still love you new guy.
//You'll learn.

Clearly!!

[behemoth]

CLEARLY you are full of lose and fail...

[warbeak2099]

CLEARLY you are full of lose and fail...

Agreed. Come back after 6 weeks on a strict diet of win and awesome. Excercise is required also.

[andy@fatbobs]

No one has seen that before.

Not in the UK that's for sure. We have been fed a diet of cheap electro guns for the last few years after AGD Europe closed. Mags havn't been imported into the UK for 4 or 5 years.

This is a vid we took today to try and convert the UK masses away from their leccys and onto something that is true quality.

Thanks for the welcome though lads,

[Chronobreak]

So the mag is a mech and doesn't have a high BPS rate right?.....Wrong!!

Have a look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYEwRRK5NWI

sure its fast, but its not allowed anywhere. so other than impressing friends and showing off the valves capabilities its useless.

but not a bad way to try and sell/hype/market mags, sounds like their selling good over there.

:cheers:

[andy@fatbobs]

sure its fast, but its not allowed anywhere. so other than impressing friends and showing off the valves capabilities its useless.

but not a bad way to try and sell/hype/market mags, sounds like their selling good over there.

:cheers:

The woodland tourny scene is just going through a revival in the UK at the moment, the accuracy and range of the mag's will dominate we just need to get the kids away from the spray and pray mentality. Putting the vid on our forum was to show these people what is achievable through quality rather than cheap electronics.

The sale of mags is going reasonably well, it's still winter and out of season over here but we are pleased with initial interest.

[behemoth]

Not in the UK that's for sure. We have been fed a diet of cheap electro guns for the last few years after AGD Europe closed. Mags havn't been imported into the UK for 4 or 5 years.

This is a vid we took today to try and convert the UK masses away from their leccys and onto something that is true quality.

Thanks for the welcome though lads,

So, the united kingdom has been cut off from the internet?

www.zakvetter.com

Its been around, its nothing new.

Its illegal during games.

There are other markers that posess a high quality.

Welcome to AO.

[andy@fatbobs]

So, the united kingdom has been cut off from the internet?

www.zakvetter.com

Its been around, its nothing new.

Its illegal during games.

There are other markers that posess a high quality.

Welcome to AO.

You seem quite hostile Behemoth, is there some reason for this.

[behemoth]

You seem quite hostile Behemoth, is there some reason for this.

Thats just how i am.

But, i dont mean to come across like that online.


I'm simply trying to illustrate that youre not special.

See you next tuesday mate.

[andy@fatbobs]

I'm simply trying to illustrate that youre not special.

See you next tuesday mate.

LOL, that hurts, my mother always said I was her special little soldier.

Are you coming to the UK on Tuesday,

[behemoth]

LOL, that hurts, my mother always said I was her special little soldier.

Are you coming to the UK on Tuesday,

No, i figured you'd get that, being english and all.


Apparently not. I better brush up on my cockney slang.

[andy@fatbobs]

No, i figured you'd get that, being english and all.


Apparently not. I better brush up on my cockney slang.

No problemo dude!!

[behemoth]

No problemo dude!!

whats the imput pressure to that mag? 1000?

[andy@fatbobs]

whats the imput pressure to that mag? 1000?

950, it's on a Smart Parts old style maxflo.

We don't use any mags like that, it's just for illustrative purposes.

[behemoth]

950, it's on a Smart Parts old style maxflo.

We don't use any mags like that, it's just for illustrative purposes.

Okay, so, if you dont use your mags like that, you just play with them in semi.

When, an electro can shoot like that legally...

You win how?

[punkncat]

I would like to point out to you that...


... the accuracy and range of the mag's

...is no better than any other standard marker with a quality barrel and paint, at the same velocity. The only barrel proven to increase range is a flatline or similar "backspin" tech. At teh cost of accuracy and actually being able to bust a ball on target.


I appreciate what you are trying to do/say. Understand there are many old school forum regulars here that don't fall for the hype any longer. Not all of us are as honery as we are coming off here, but what you said is noobilicious.

[behemoth]

I would like to point out to you that...



...is no better than any other standard marker with a quality barrel and paint, at the same velocity. The only barrel proven to increase range is a flatline or similar "backspin" tech. At teh cost of accuracy and actually being able to bust a ball on target.


I appreciate what you are trying to do/say. Understand there are many old school forum regulars here that don't fall for the hype any longer. Not all of us are as honery as we are coming off here, but what you said is noobilicious.

Oh wow, i missed that part.

Good thing, too.

[andy@fatbobs]

Okay, so, if you dont use your mags like that, you just play with them in semi.

When, an electro can shoot like that legally...

You win how?

Because people are obsessed with BPS. Trying to sell a mech which is double the price of an electro, on range an accuracy alone is fairly difficult although we are getting through to the more discerning player.

It's a bit like when you see vids for electro guns firing on unlimited ramp. We don't allow ramping in tourny's or walkon's in the UK, but these vids are very good adverts.

[behemoth]

Because people are obsessed with BPS. Trying to sell a mech which is double the price of an electro, on range an accuracy alone is fairly difficult although we are getting through to the more discerning player.

It's a bit like when you see vids for electro guns firing on unlimited ramp. We don't allow ramping in tourny's or walkon's in the UK, but these vids are very good adverts.

Again,

RANGE AND ACCURACY IS ONLY AFFECTED BY THE PAINT TO BARREL MATCH, AND PAINT QUALITY.

an electro shooting 300fps and a mag shooting 300fps will go the same distance.

[punkncat]

Don....do you have a cousin in the UK?

[behemoth]

Don....do you have a cousin in the UK?

/high five.

[Niox]

Ok, I'm gonna stick up for a fellow Brit here even if he never got back to me on those vert feed modules :rolleyes: .

I have been on this forum for only a few days and already I have read countless (maybe 1 or 2 but I cant count that high) posts saying how AGD are slowly dieing and all they need is a good marketing team.

Well God bless Fat Bob's for having the guts to break the monotony and trend in the UK by re-introducing the Mag and trying to dispell the idiocy that most British ballers have that to be any good a marker bust need several thousand batteries, 412 circuit boards, rainbow coloured "Lax0r5" for eyes, be milled to high heaven and cost ££££'s to be any good. Fat Bob's have bought the Automag back to the UK and are trying to sell it mainstream as a serious tourney gun and thus generate profit for themselves and obviously AGD. In the present market in both the UK and the States there is a lot of hype and myth about everything and I even though it goes agaisnt Der Untermag Revolution; maybe he had to whip up some hype and myth of his own to make it more attractive to punters, I dunno, maybe he should have just shut up about being an AGD dealer and just left AGD in the relative darkness it is in in the UK.

So, until you are signing up to be an AGD dealer, until you are trying your level best to make their markers sell in a country with a great ignorance and prejudice against them I suggest you stop being hostile towards Luke and praise him and the Fat Bob's team for trying their damn best.

Oh and cockney is native only to London, contrary to common belief we Brits don't all live in quaint little villages drinking tea all day and say "what-ho old bean". York is a rather long distance from London or as we call it "oop no'th" and it has it's own accent.

Sorry about that people, not much winds me up but that just did. I'm off to drink some herbal tea and calm down now. Feel free to flame me and perhaps compare me to Don Miguel.

Much love... Oh and Chuff Chuff.

-Niox

[punkncat]

Ok, I'm gonna stick up for a fellow Brit here even if he never got back to me on those vert feed modules :rolleyes: .

I have been on this forum for only a few days and already I have read countless (maybe 1 or 2 but I cant count that high) posts saying how AGD are slowly dieing and all they need is a good marketing team.

Well God bless Fat Bob's for having the guts to break the monotony and trend in the UK by re-introducing the Mag and trying to dispell the idiocy that most British ballers have that to be any good a marker bust need several thousand batteries, 412 circuit boards, rainbow coloured "Lax0r5" for eyes, be milled to high heaven and cost ££££'s to be any good. Fat Bob's have bought the Automag back to the UK and are trying to sell it mainstream as a serious tourney gun and thus generate profit for themselves and obviously AGD. In the present market in both the UK and the States there is a lot of hype and myth about everything and I even though it goes agaisnt Der Untermag Revolution; maybe he had to whip up some hype and myth of his own to make it more attractive to punters, I dunno, maybe he should have just shut up about being an AGD dealer and just left AGD in the relative darkness it is in in the UK.

So, until you are signing up to be an AGD dealer, until you are trying your level best to make their markers sell in a country with a great ignorance and prejudice against them I suggest you stop being hostile towards Luke and praise him and the Fat Bob's team for trying their damn best.

Oh and cockney is native only to London, contrary to common belief we Brits don't all live in quaint little villages drinking tea all day and say "what-ho old bean". York is a rather long distance from London or as we call it "oop no'th" and it has it's own accent.

Sorry about that people, not much winds me up but that just did. I'm off to drink some herbal tea and calm down now. Feel free to flame me and perhaps compare me to Don Miguel.

Much love... Oh and Chuff Chuff.

-Niox


Beefing up hype that has both already been done, and determined to be illegal at any pay to play field, puts a target on you. Especially from people who are "in the know". Good luck with the marketing campain, but honestly I think you will find a similar reaction.

[REDRT]

. Mags havn't been imported into the UK for 4 or 5 years.



This last summer I called AGD because I was looking for a part that was late coming. Over the phone it was because they were working on a big order they were shipping to the UK. This is all I know...

[Niox]

Beefing up hype that has both already been done, and determined to be illegal at any pay to play field, puts a target on you. Especially from people who are "in the know". Good luck with the marketing campain, but honestly I think you will find a similar reaction.

I'm not saying it isn't illegal at every site far from it. I just think instead of flaming the poor lad you should be just pointing him in the direction of this (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=93751) explaining a little to him about why it is illegal and why it is bad and atleast praising him for trying his best to get AGD more noted in the UK.

I hate generalising paintballers in the UK, I really do as there are so many decent ones, but the buying public, to the best of my knowledge in the UK like that kind of stuff. Back when the ill fated Gizmos (or Guerrilla whichever you wish to call it) was still going they did a video of a Karnie doing 50bps with an illegal mod or some witchcraft. Show up to a field with that and I bet they will show you the door pretty quick, but Gizmos sales of Karnies increased with that video on their site.

Much love,
Niox

P.S - I know this will sound sarcastic but it isn't, I like the quip on "in the know", good one.
P.P.S - I'm gonna butt out now as I don't want to get in a flame war with any of you as I'm new here and I'm sure you're all very nice people and I'm a bit dense so I can't really have very good arguments with you all.

[punkncat]

I'm not saying it isn't illegal at every site far from it. I just think instead of flaming the poor lad you should be just pointing him in the direction of this (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=93751) explaining a little to him about why it is illegal and why it is bad and atleast praising him for trying his best to get AGD more noted in the UK.

I hate generalising paintballers in the UK, I really do as there are so many decent ones, but the buying public, to the best of my knowledge in the UK like that kind of stuff. Back when the ill fated Gizmos (or Guerrilla whichever you wish to call it) was still going they did a video of a Karnie doing 50bps with an illegal mod or some witchcraft. Show up to a field with that and I bet they will show you the door pretty quick, but Gizmos sales of Karnies increased with that video on their site.

Much love,
Niox

P.S - I know this will sound sarcastic but it isn't, I like the quip on "in the know", good one.

Thanks.... :ninja:

I am glad to see someone taking intrest in being a distrubutor there. I guess that waiting for overseas shipping kinda stinks. Mags are so reliable that its rare to really need help once they are right, but we are spoiled with several good dealers close by.

Marketing a mag is a tricky thing...I mean honestly, what can you say?

Mags
Just as good as they were 10 years ago.

or

AGD...we found aluminum 5 years ago....

It really is a challenge. The reputation really sort of speaks for itself. In a modern world of hype, there is nothing more to say.

[Phillips]

No, i figured you'd get that, being english and all.


Apparently not. I better brush up on my cockney slang.

You my friend are a tommy tanker :)
That IS cockney slang.

Mags..... quality , we all agree.
There are perfectly respectable markers that outperform mags, we all agree.
Not even 4% of the population speaks like a cockney idiot..... we all know.
Stop arguing it's only a good thing that we can acess automags through another outlet.
Yey lets all go balling.

[Niox]

You my friend are a tommy tanker :)
That IS cockney slang.

Mags..... quality , we all agree.
There are perfectly respectable markers that outperform mags, we all agree.
Not even 4% of the population speaks like a cockney idiot..... we all know.
Stop arguing it's only a good thing that we can acess automags through another outlet.
Yey lets all go balling.
Can you Adam and Eve it! A post from Phillips without widespread typographical errors! Next thing you know he will be having a shower AND using soap (he does pen and ink a bit). :eek:

Sorry that was a lot off topic, but hey, I'm ginger :tard:

[behemoth]

You my friend are a tommy tanker :)
That IS cockney slang.

Mags..... quality , we all agree.
There are perfectly respectable markers that outperform mags, we all agree.
Not even 4% of the population speaks like a cockney idiot..... we all know.
Stop arguing it's only a good thing that we can acess automags through another outlet.
Yey lets all go balling.

The cockney thing was a joke.

And i'll take the tommy tanker comment ;)

[minimag03]

I don't see the problem with a little hype used to sell mags in any country.

[y0da900]

Because people are obsessed with BPS. Trying to sell a mech which is double the price of an electro, on range an accuracy alone is fairly difficult although we are getting through to the more discerning player.

It's a bit like when you see vids for electro guns firing on unlimited ramp. We don't allow ramping in tourny's or walkon's in the UK, but these vids are very good adverts.

If you are getting through to people by selling them on accuracy and range, I hate to tell you, but those aren't the discerning players, they are just the ones buying the hype (read as lies) you are feeding them.

[Phillips]

It's a sales pitch, not the laws of thermodynamics.
I remember a Dye barrel that had a description as follows, "This barrels porting means never before seen accuracy and is designed for further range".
If you buy a marker without knowing all the details then you are partly responsible.
I wouldn't go out and buy a blade then complain it isn't as good as the Ego, I actually have knowledge of things before I purchase.

[CKY_Alliance]

The woodland tourny scene is just going through a revival in the UK at the moment, the accuracy and range of the mag's will dominate we just need to get the kids away from the spray and pray mentality. Putting the vid on our forum was to show these people what is achievable through quality rather than cheap electronics.

The sale of mags is going reasonably well, it's still winter and out of season over here but we are pleased with initial interest.



So you "market" the mags to them with a video of it bouncing like mad? Ummm...ye.

[AGDRetro]

Its nice to see what the valve can do, but it isn't anything new to the AO crowd.

If you want to make an impression on people tell them it is mechanical and pull a legal 14 bps... it is still VERY impressive.

[PsychoBaller]

950, it's on a Smart Parts old style maxflo.


Dang... your setup is a mixing of AGD and... ... Smart Parts ??


:nono:

[paintballfiend]

If what they are doing is increasing the sale and overall love of mags, I say let them.

[Chronobreak]

if you have a problem with their selling tactics perhaps you should suggest alternative ones instead of ridiculing them.

the mag "reliability test" on vetters site is also a great vid

[warbeak2099]

Mags are no more accurate nor do they have longer range than any other gun with the same barrel and paint, and same velocity.

That is just like any other mech mag with an RT style valve. There is no such thing as a Euromag.

Your marketing is just as hype filled as any company pushing "cheap electros".

Ramping is allowed in UK and European tournys. It's called Millenium.

Conclusion = you're full of it

/thread

[gus13]

alright, I've gotta say I can see both sides of this. FatBob is looking for a way to show the UK "kiddies" what a Mag can do by saying "Hey look at how FAST this thing can shoot!!" and all the UK Kiddies go, "oooooh, cool! I gotta get me one of those!" :rolleyes: but the problem is that what they see and what they will be allowed to do with it after purchase are two totally different things. Why not show the setup, explain what makes a mag so great,quality, reliability,comfort, accuracy(yes I said it!)warranty,etc. Then show a vid of someone shooting it in legal semi mode.even do some action shots from a tourney...nothing sells better than action dude! heck you could even go into AGD's illustrious history in the sport and tell people how far AGD helped to advance the technology Everyone who plays takes for granted, i.e. constant air, HPA, goggle systems etc etc, believe me the list goes on and on.
In the end I kinda think AGD would be above the hype of "Look at me, look at me! I've got a faster marker than you! (whether that person would ever be able to meet the markers true abilities or not - I mean do you know anyone that can shoot 30 BPS w/out bouncing or ramping of any kind- TRUE SEMI??) I think AGD has always been about quality and superb performance along with total reliability for years to come.
so why not show some integrity to the consumer and the product itself and sell it for what it really is, a great, reliable, and quality marker that is backed by one of the last survivors of the "old days"of this sport.
just a thought. :cheers:

[ProblemKinder]

i agree. smart parts maxiflow? blasphemous... :eek:

[Niox]

Mags are no more accurate nor do they have longer range than any other gun with the same barrel and paint, and same velocity. [1]

That is just like any other mech mag with an RT style valve. There is no such thing as a Euromag. [2]

Your marketing is just as hype filled as any company pushing "cheap electros". [3]

Ramping is allowed in UK and European tournys. It's called Millenium. [4]

Conclusion = you're full of it [5]

/thread

[1] Yeah we all know that and if we didn't, I think we do now as that is the like the 3rd time it has been mentioned.

[2] Yes there is such a thing as a Euromag, it is in Fat Bob's online store labeled as a Euromag, it is a custom Mag built to Fat Bob's specification, if they want to call it a Euromag then it is a Euromag. You can also buy all the parts and turn your Mag into a Euromag.

[3] Really? You're probably right there bud and I think I might actually agree, maybe a better idea would be to demonstrate how indestructable the Mag is and doing a tourney legal RoF demonstration.

[4] Do you live in the UK? Millenium isn't the only tourney we have and to my knowledge very few if none of the other tournies permit ramping. Full auto is against the law here in the UK, ramping and alike are in the governments own words "a grey area". They have not said it is legal and have not said it isn't, they are waiting for a court case involving ramping etc so a judge may decide.

[5] Now this isn't very nice now is it :p


i agree. smart parts maxiflow? blasphemous... :eek:

Your sir are 100% true. Nuff said.

[andy@fatbobs]

I would just like to say thank you very much for the warm welcome that you have shown me on Automags.org.

Had I known it was a pissing competition then perhaps I would have posted links to my cridentials such as

www.ypc.co.uk
www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk
www.talkpaintball.com
www.nationalpaintballclub.co.uk
www.automagsuk.com

and then invited the halfwits who have posted to share their paintball cridentials.

As it happens I have just removed the link from automagsuk.com to this forum as I will not subject any of our customers to the abuse that I have received on here. Instead we have set up an Automags section within our own forum where we can filter out the idiots.

As I understood it, Automags.org was the best forum in the US, now I know it is no better than PB Nation.

I believe that the Automag is the best marker in the world, which is why we have started to import them into the UK, Fatbobs will continue to sell them in the best way that we see fit and in the way that has brought Fatbobspaintball.co.uk to become the UK's largest online paintball shop and to maximise sales in the UK.

We will no longer participate on Automags.org

[REDRT]

It is the American way to tick off world.

[txaggie08]

I would just like to say thank you very much for the warm welcome that you have shown me on Automags.org.

Had I known it was a pissing competition then perhaps I would have posted links to my cridentials such as

www.ypc.co.uk
www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk
www.talkpaintball.com
www.nationalpaintballclub.co.uk
www.automagsuk.com

and then invited the halfwits who have posted to share their paintball cridentials.

As it happens I have just removed the link from automagsuk.com to this forum as I will not subject any of our customers to the abuse that I have received on here. Instead we have set up an Automags section within our own forum where we can filter out the idiots.

As I understood it, Automags.org was the best forum in the US, now I know it is no better than PB Nation.

I believe that the Automag is the best marker in the world, which is why we have started to import them into the UK, Fatbobs will continue to sell them in the best way that we see fit and in the way that has brought Fatbobspaintball.co.uk to become the UK's largest online paintball shop and to maximise sales in the UK.

We will no longer participate on Automags.org

quie throwing you toys out of the pram and ignore the idiots... I know you have them on that side of the pond to, I've had the misfortune of meeting a few...

[Raven001]

I would just like to say thank you very much for the warm welcome that you have shown me on Automags.org.

Had I known it was a pissing competition then perhaps I would have posted links to my cridentials such as

www.ypc.co.uk
www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk
www.talkpaintball.com
www.nationalpaintballclub.co.uk
www.automagsuk.com

and then invited the halfwits who have posted to share their paintball cridentials.

As it happens I have just removed the link from automagsuk.com to this forum as I will not subject any of our customers to the abuse that I have received on here. Instead we have set up an Automags section within our own forum where we can filter out the idiots.

As I understood it, Automags.org was the best forum in the US, now I know it is no better than PB Nation.

I believe that the Automag is the best marker in the world, which is why we have started to import them into the UK, Fatbobs will continue to sell them in the best way that we see fit and in the way that has brought Fatbobspaintball.co.uk to become the UK's largest online paintball shop and to maximise sales in the UK.

We will no longer participate on Automags.org


Andy, you shouldn't get your shorts all tied up in a knot. Yes there are some real wankers on this site but they’re not all like that. That being said, you will get challenged if you make an outrageous statement like more the mag is more accurate or something to that effect. The non-wankers don't like ****e that can't be backed up with facts or evidence.

It's good to see that someone over there is actually interested in selling mags cause here in Canada, I don't think any retail store sells em anymore.

I am curious to know what makes your Euromag different from say a run of the mill RT?

[Niox]

Andy, you shouldn't get your shorts all tied up in a knot. Yes there are some real wankers on this site but they’re not all like that. That being said, you will get challenged if you make an outrageous statement like more the mag is more accurate or something to that effect. The non-wankers don't like ****e that can't be backed up with facts or evidence.

It's good to see that someone over there is actually interested in selling mags cause here in Canada, I don't think any retail store sells em anymore.

I am curious to know what makes your Euromag different from say a run of the mill RT?

To the best of my knowledge mate the main advantage of the Euromag over a standard RT Pro is the ULE body and rail, Ultra Lite Trigger pull and it includes a barrel ( I don't know if the RT does include a barrel or not).

Basically it is an upped mag, the reason it is not called a "Pimped RT" or whatever you think it should be called is because Fat Bob's asked AGD to make them a Mag to their specification to head up their new venture into the world of AGD. As it marked the return of the Mag to a European store and it is the store's flagship Mag I guess it makes sense to call it the Euromag, afterall it does sound more impressive than "Pimped RT".

Raven001, that was a good question and a very well thought out post that explained why he got abused, I bow to your wit and eliquence.

The next question I sense coming is "Why not an E-Mag?". To this I can only assume that Fat Bob's has identified that a mech with near electro performance is something of an oddity that will (and judging by sales it has) attract the customer purely for novelty.

Much love,
Niox

[warbeak2099]

Oh I'm so sorry we called you out on doing exactly the opposite of what Tom Kaye and the automag stands for. Now maybe it may seem to some people like we are having a pissing competition, but I for one really care about the automag and the house that Tom built.

It's not about hype. It's not about rearranging the parts and calling it an '07 Euromag. That's what the other companies do. I will not stand here and listen to you spout out drivel about how you are saving the automag. You're not. You're destroying the very basic values that AGD was built on. Honesty, integrity, quality, etc. You're not being true to the automag or AGD. You're just trying to snake some kids into buying a product. And while making money is part of any business, there is more to AGD. You are tainting that.

So call me whatever you want and call this forum whatever you want. But don't you dare tell us that all we are is a giant pissing contest. We actually care. We are honest here, we call it like it is. It may seem like we argue a lot, but that's because we get heated about this stuff. We care about AGD, we care about new players, we care about the automag. And you obviously don't. So I'm glad you won't associate this site with your business.

Good day sir.

[Lohman446]

I don't have an issue with the name - you have to name the collection of parts something.

But to state it has better accuracy and range than comparable electros? If we are getting into the hype of accuracy and range at least use a closed bolt marker...

[warbeak2099]

I don't have an issue with the name - you have to name the collection of parts something.

But to state it has better accuracy and range than comparable electros? If we are getting into the hype of accuracy and range at least use a closed bolt marker...

The name? It's called an RT ULE. Rogue can call his the Paradigm and whatnot because he puts his own custom parts on them. This guy is just repackaging stock parts from AGD. Call it what AGD calls it. Otherwise he's just as bad as the companies that hes "saving" AGD from.

[Piranti]

Is he bringing more people to AGD and a quality marker? Yes

Is he seling AGD Markers at a respectable rate? Yes, or so he claims.

Is he selling AGD markers in c ountry where they have nearly fallen off of the planet? Yes


Have any of you done this (the ones chewing him out?) NO, until then be quiet or offer only constructive criticism not outright attacks.

Rock and and bring back the Mags to your scenario/woodball groups. Looks like you are offering them at a reasonable prices too, which is even better.

Let not all be the tools alot of us have become, and be a little more welcoming to our friends across the pond.

[warbeak2099]

Reasonable prices? Do you know what those translate to in American dollars? That's almost $450 for a Pro Classic! Yea, he really cares about bringing the mag back. If he did he'd be doing it with the same values that AGD employs. Instead he's turning automags into Ions.

[punkncat]

I would just like to say thank you very much for the warm welcome that you have shown me on Automags.org.

Had I known it was a pissing competition then perhaps I would have posted links to my cridentials such as

www.ypc.co.uk
www.fatbobspaintball.co.uk
www.talkpaintball.com
www.nationalpaintballclub.co.uk
www.automagsuk.com

and then invited the halfwits who have posted to share their paintball cridentials.

As it happens I have just removed the link from automagsuk.com to this forum as I will not subject any of our customers to the abuse that I have received on here. Instead we have set up an Automags section within our own forum where we can filter out the idiots.

As I understood it, Automags.org was the best forum in the US, now I know it is no better than PB Nation.

I believe that the Automag is the best marker in the world, which is why we have started to import them into the UK, Fatbobs will continue to sell them in the best way that we see fit and in the way that has brought Fatbobspaintball.co.uk to become the UK's largest online paintball shop and to maximise sales in the UK.

We will no longer participate on Automags.org


So long as you, or your forum members don't come on spouting unbackable claims, there will be no reason to cry.

You must understand. Every few days some new forum member comes on and posts all the same crap. Oh mags are this and that, blah, blah... WE as a community don't wish to have our forums cluttered with a bunch of BS. Claiming that a mag is more accurate or shoots farther, look how fast it is with an illegal setup, etc. isn't helping us OR you. Now on the other hand if you wanted to say something like, one of the toughest markers on the planet...or wash it in a bucket of water...or some of the best customer service on the planet...you would have been recieved MUCH better.

All the luck with your new endeavor. Don't expect your brits not to see through the veil either buddy.

[Niox]

Reasonable prices? Do you know what those translate to in American dollars? That's almost $450 for a Pro Classic! Yea, he really cares about bringing the mag back. If he did he'd be doing it with the same values that AGD employs. Instead he's turning automags into Ions.

Yeah I know turning Automags into popular markers used by players at almost every level, what a daft idea... :rolleyes:

Also take into account shipping, taxes and customs. There is a reason we are called Rip-Off Britain and he can't help it. Also that $450 dollars for a Pro Classic is extreme to you but when you take a comparitive look accross the whole board of markers UK prices are generally higher. I can't comment on how much profit he makes from it all as I don't have anything to do with the store at all, I have only spoken to him over the internet for brief periods of time.


Oh I'm so sorry we called you out on doing exactly the opposite of what Tom Kaye and the automag stands for. Now maybe it may seem to some people like we are having a pissing competition, but I for one really care about the automag and the house that Tom built.

It's not about hype. It's not about rearranging the parts and calling it an '07 Euromag. That's what the other companies do. I will not stand here and listen to you spout out drivel about how you are saving the automag. You're not. You're destroying the very basic values that AGD was built on. Honesty, integrity, quality, etc. You're not being true to the automag or AGD. You're just trying to snake some kids into buying a product. And while making money is part of any business, there is more to AGD. You are tainting that.

So call me whatever you want and call this forum whatever you want. But don't you dare tell us that all we are is a giant pissing contest. We actually care. We are honest here, we call it like it is. It may seem like we argue a lot, but that's because we get heated about this stuff. We care about AGD, we care about new players, we care about the automag. And you obviously don't. So I'm glad you won't associate this site with your business.

Good day sir.

Some good points there bud and I'd say I agree with 87-95% of that. However I believe there is a thin line between saying it how it is and being needlessly hostile in the way you tell it like it is. As I've said before (I think, my memory is runnish) just being not nice to him and saying fine we don't want you in our family is not a very good way to put your argument accross, if anything it just gets people backs up and make them stubborn.

For GCSE English all those years ago I was taught to P.E.E, Point Evidence & Explain (yes that was from the same government as the 3 R's - Reading, Writing & Arithmatic). If you can be gentle in your criticisms but back them up with reliable evidence and a good explanation you will probably not only win the argument but actually make the looser learn something (all Carrot and Stick I suppose).

You can't say he doesn't care about the Automag, he has been playing paintball for 18 years, for 10 of those years he has used Mags, he didn't decide to become an AGD dealer to make a quick buck, he became a dealer because he loves Automags and wanted them back in the UK.

On a seperate note I showed that video to 2 seperate typical newbies to paintball in Britain.

Kid 'S' was shown the video with an explanation on what was going on and why it was illegal.

Kid 'M' was shown the video with no extra info.

Kid 'S' - "*Expletive* thats fast, shame it's illegal though but I'd still get one.

Kid 'M' - "Is that on ramping? Isn't that illegal at tournies?"

Now this is by no means a representitive study, or a scientific one for that but most people can see through this sort of hype.

I might tell him some suggestions on a more AGD ethically sound adverts for the Mags. The response on here is sort of expected, we all get passionate about anything we love and AGD has a special place in many hearts (mine included) as a caring and ethical company. Andy's means are questionable but the end is worth it. Lots of people on Fat Bob's forum are saying how pleased they are with their new Euromags.

Much love,
Niox

EDIT: Damn I'm a slow typer.

[SCpoloRicker]

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/4353/beerkitty4lv.gif

[Niox]

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/4353/beerkitty4lv.gif

Oh man a cat on beer. I... I just can't compete with that. :p

[warbeak2099]

I suppose you're right. I meant what I said, but the way I came across was a little hostile. It just gets me pissed when people start this hype crap. "Gun X shoots faster because we put a new body kit on it." "This gun is more accurate than anything else and it shoots farther". "Hey let's rearrange the factory parts on this gun and call it something different so noobs will buy it".

That stuff is what the other guys do. AGD has never done that and that's what makes them great. They build quality and they sell it with integrity. We just don't want someone tainting that.

[Niox]

I suppose you're right. I meant what I said, but the way I came across was a little hostile. It just gets me pissed when people start this hype crap. "Gun X shoots faster because we put a new body kit on it." "This gun is more accurate than anything else and it shoots farther". "Hey let's rearrange the factory parts on this gun and call it something different so noobs will buy it".

That stuff is what the other guys do. AGD has never done that and that's what makes them great. They build quality and they sell it with integrity. We just don't want someone tainting that.

Oh my god I have been dealing with numpteys for far too long!

I came on here fully expecting you to have ripped me to shreds but that was very mature of you. I know what your feeling on the integrity side of things and it does kind'a suck that in this day and age people still have to mislead about products to make them sell.

I for one am glad that AGD still has people like you who get steamed up about this and tries to stamp it out for the good of AGD and it's legacy. Most people will only defend gun X because they happen to be shooting its, next month when they have gun Y they wont be so bothered and no matter how hard companies try they cannot buy hearts, minds and loyalty.

Much love,
Niox, but you can call me Sam.

[warbeak2099]

Oh my god I have been dealing with numpteys for far too long!

I came on here fully expecting you to have ripped me to shreds but that was very mature of you. I know what your feeling on the integrity side of things and it does kind'a suck that in this day and age people still have to mislead about products to make them sell.

I for one am glad that AGD still has people like you who get steamed up about this and tries to stamp it out for the good of AGD and it's legacy. Most people will only defend gun X because they happen to be shooting its, next month when they have gun Y they wont be so bothered and no matter how hard companies try they cannot buy hearts, minds and loyalty.

Much love,
Niox, but you can call me Sam.

Sam,

I hear ya. I might not always shoot mags, but the best thing about them is the way AGD conducts themselves. With honesty and integrity that is. I'm actually looking at purchasing a Mini as my next gun. I'll probably keep the mag as a backup. But the point is, you don't even have to be addicted to mags to understand that AGD is a noble non sequitur in the industry. Hopefully this Andy character can sell his mags and still maintain that key factor.

Cheers,
Pete :cheers:

P.S. numpteys? Please explain!

[Lohman446]

in this day and age people still have to mislead about products to make them sell..

BS cop-out. I don't mislead about my products / services and do just fine... same as this business has done since 1953 - then again, not misleading and building a customer base is a long term business plan that does not always meet todays "what can you do for me now" mentality.

[Niox]

Sam,

I hear ya. I might not always shoot mags, but the best thing about them is the way AGD conducts themselves. With honesty and integrity that is. I'm actually looking at purchasing a Mini as my next gun. I'll probably keep the mag as a backup. But the point is, you don't even have to be addicted to mags to understand that AGD is a noble non sequitur in the industry. Hopefully this Andy character can sell his mags and still maintain that key factor.

Cheers,
Pete :cheers:

P.S. numpteys? Please explain!

A very english expression, the best way to explain it is to think of someone who is obviously wrong, everyone knows he is wrong and have tried to help him out but he just wont listen and just ends insulting those why try to help. Urban Dictionary -> Numptey (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=numptey&defid=1747637) I suppose Don Miguel can be a bit of a numptey. I wasn't calling you one Pete, it's just that lately I've gotten use to talking to lots of them and it made a refreshing change to speak to a proper human being and for that I raise a glass to you :cheers: .


BS cop-out. I don't mislead about my products / services and do just fine... same as this business has done since 1953 - then again, not misleading and building a customer base is a long term business plan that does not always meet todays "what can you do for me now" mentality.

I can't figure out if the "cop out" bit was aimed at me? If it was why would I need to make up BS to sell my products? I don't work for Fat Bob's or any other paintball company. I work at what you would call a general store on the checkout, it's not much but it pays the bills and feeds my paintball addiction.

If you think my comment was aimed at you, you are wrong. It was just a sweeping generalisation and one that I think rings true for most cases, thankfully there are exceptions and as I have already said AGD is one and rightfully so.

Much love,
Niox

[y0da900]

But the point is, you don't even have to be addicted to mags to understand that AGD is a noble non sequitur in the industry. Hopefully this Andy character can sell his mags and still maintain that key factor.



I don't even own a Mag, but I love them from a mechanical design and reliability standpoint. There was a thread elsewhere recently about our thoughts on why Mags aren't that popular today, and one of my general thoughts was that AGD would not lower themselves to telling outright lies, and rebadging the old as new with no real advantage, another reason I love them.

I'm not so sure he can maintain that key factor though, I PM'ed him earlier about what Chronobreak said, that those of us being critical should offer something constructive instead of just ridicule, and the answer I got back was a complete BS line about how they really are more accurate and shoot further (along with cockers). I normally wouldn't re-post this, but trying to feed me this AFTER I told him he was wrong and told him that I'm a mechanical engineer, so I'm not just blowing smoke, I got this:



The accuracy and distance statement is actually true.

It was eplanined to me once about the balistics of different designed bolts which give the ball more energy (can't remember weather it was potential or kinetic) the bolt does make a difference to range even at a given velocity. The mag with an x valve does have a greater range over an electro as there is much less drop off, so with a string of shots the mag will outrange an electro as the electro will sustain drop off and the mag won't, even when both markers are chrono's identically.

As for accuracy, the barrel does have a lot to do with it, but again so does the bolt and the air delivery to the bolt. I have used more or less every electro marker on the market, the mag and the autococker are both noticably more accurate with identical barrels than electro.s


I replied with more technical information and links to show him otherwise, but I doubt he will reply to it.

[SCpoloRicker]

yoda900, that's classic!

[Chronobreak]

well the distance thing has been tested and proven wrong many times over.

everything at the same fps goes the same distance with the same setup blah blah blah

however as far as accuracy....when reffering to consistency mags are pretty much still at the top ladder at shot to shot consistency. so when reffering to accuracy=paint to barrel match + consistency. mags are perhaps more accurate or as accurate as well as anything else.

:D

as i said before i would stress the outright reliability when selling them,waterproof design. weight(an all ule mag set up right as lighter than a mini)

also as for the video linked in aprticular, there are videos that show the actual downrange paint and VERY close/consistent groupings at those high rof's(e-mags,x-mags,pneumags,mechs-legal and non) that are no offence to you but much better in showing the guns capabilities and performance.

im glad to see more people selling mags, and more so more mags being sold :cool:

as for ideas you could mount a mag and atempt to bash it with an electronic(generic) gun and watch the gun just shatter on the mag :eek:

i have more ideas...lmk :rofl:

no more smoking for me :ninja:

[y0da900]

well the distance thing has been tested and proven wrong many times over.

everything at the same fps goes the same distance with the same setup blah blah blah

however as far as accuracy....when reffering to consistency mags are pretty much still at the top ladder at shot to shot consistency. so when reffering to accuracy=paint to barrel match + consistency. mags are perhaps more accurate or as accurate as well as anything else.

:D

as i said before i would stress the outright reliability when selling them,waterproof design. weight(an all ule mag set up right as lighter than a mini)


as for ideas you could mount a mag and atempt to bash it with an electronic(generic) gun and watch the gun just shatter on the mag :eek:



I mentioned that in the reply, which follows just for grins:




That statement is entirely inaccurate. An object travelling at 300FPS with the same mass, surface finish, and shape will travel the same distance provided it does not have backspin. The ONLY thing that could make it shoot further other than that would be to somehow disrupt the helical wake it leaves behind it, which induces a substantial amount of drag and causes what can be seen as the corkscrew effect that sometimes happens. There are theories on how this can be done, but rest assured, the Mag does not do this.
http://automags.org/resource/tech/tomstech/index.shtml
You should probably read through those, and do a search on here for some of Tom Kaye's old posts, AO used to be much better in the theory department in the Deep Blue section of the site. Per Tom, the inventor, the range statement is patently false.

As far as accuracy, that is also for the most part irrelevant, as regulation technology has become very very consistent with very fast recharge rates, fast enough that at shot speeds that a human can actually shoot in semi mode, there is little to no drop off, and at a very consistent speed. Any accuracy that is perceived in a mag or cocker is a result of the comfort of the person shooting it. Benchtests have been done by a number of people showing that with identical velocities, barrels, and paint, that no recent gun with a good reg is any more accurate or shoots further than any other. Anything else is perception.

You should consider things re-explained, and should also delve into the research further to see that I am not just feeding you a line of bull. There are a number of posts on AO and the Tinkers guild (http://www.network54.com/Forum/9013/), both of which have evidence presented by people with what you like to tout as your credentials (Simon Stevens - the head of R&D for NPS, Tom Kaye - inventor of the Automag, a number of engineers and designers, just some generally intelligent people).

[jenarelJAM]

If you need a list of reasons to buy a mag, here you go:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=652188

[skife]

Reasonable prices? Do you know what those translate to in American dollars? That's almost $450 for a Pro Classic! Yea, he really cares about bringing the mag back. If he did he'd be doing it with the same values that AGD employs. Instead he's turning automags into Ions.



$450 is like $40 less than what store.airgun.com sells the exact same marker for.
did anyone else notice this?

[Lohman446]

Im going to go back to the point that I really don't care what they call them. Noone called AGD out when the X-valve name was changed, and then changed back, and then moved again, and....

You have to call it something, and they are offering a package together and calling it something. Does anyone actually have a problem with that?

As to pricing. How many of you have ever dealt with trying to get something that fires projectiles at a high speed and rate of fire through customs into a country that doesn't even allow there Olympic shooting team to posess firearms? Guess what, there is going to be some cost involved. Not to mention it is my guess that paintball has far less playable areas (and players) in the UK then it does in the US, thus the laws of scale work against you. Once such considerations (and I am sure more) are taken into account do we really have a problem with the price?

Make the issues where you have them guys. If its the name you are being petty. If its the price I think you have not fully considered it. The issues that AO is going to have center around the claims of more accuracy and range. At least figure out where the issue of discussion is and don't make it a mass smear campaign against everything involved.

[warbeak2099]

$450 is like $40 less than what store.airgun.com sells the exact same marker for.
did anyone else notice this?

Not for a Pro Classic. A Pro Classic is $229 on the airgun store. But as it's been said, there are shipping costs and the like. Then again, doesn't AGD Europe make some of the guns over there?

And just when I thought I was overreacting way too much... we are shown that PM. Wow, disturbing.

[skife]

Im going to go back to the point that I really don't care what they call them. Noone called AGD out when the X-valve name was changed, and then changed back, and then moved again, and....

You have to call it something, and they are offering a package together and calling it something. Does anyone actually have a problem with that?

As to pricing. How many of you have ever dealt with trying to get something that fires projectiles at a high speed and rate of fire through customs into a country that doesn't even allow there Olympic shooting team to posess firearms? Guess what, there is going to be some cost involved. Not to mention it is my guess that paintball has far less playable areas (and players) in the UK then it does in the US, thus the laws of scale work against you. Once such considerations (and I am sure more) are taken into account do we really have a problem with the price?

Make the issues where you have them guys. If its the name you are being petty. If its the price I think you have not fully considered it. The issues that AO is going to have center around the claims of more accuracy and range. At least figure out where the issue of discussion is and don't make it a mass smear campaign against everything involved.


the x-valve name was changed?
musta been while i was not in to paintball for that 8 months or so.

[Lohman446]

the x-valve name was changed?
musta been while i was not in to paintball for that 8 months or so.

Lets see.. the X-valve has been known as (that I know of) the X-valve, the E-Maxx valve, the RT Pro (with the X superimposed under it?).. Just labelling and I don't think anyone cared.

[warbeak2099]

Lets see.. the X-valve has been known as (that I know of) the X-valve, the E-Maxx valve, the RT Pro (with the X superimposed under it?).. Just labelling and I don't think anyone cared.

They were trying to come up with a name for a new product.

This is not a new product. It's an RT ULE with a Tac rail.

[punkncat]

Lets see.. the X-valve has been known as (that I know of) the X-valve, the E-Maxx valve, the RT Pro (with the X superimposed under it?).. Just labelling and I don't think anyone cared.


As I know it was laser ingraved with the RTP(x), the XValve and just the X.

The E-Maxx was done for Tuna.

[Lohman446]

They were trying to come up with a name for a new product.

This is not a new product. It's an RT ULE with a Tac rail.

What would you call it? Its not really an RT ULE is it? Are you honestly upset that they are naming it something?

[Lohman446]

As I know it was laser ingraved with the RTP(x), the XValve and just the X.

The E-Maxx was done for Tuna.

So my example may break down. Was anyone upset about the Tuna-mag? It was just a mag with some special engraving and a special assortment of parts, maybe anno wasn't it? My point is this, we are making an awfully big deal out of the name and I doubt its where anyone's problem really was.

[y0da900]

And just when I thought I was overreacting way too much... we are shown that PM. Wow, disturbing.

After seeing how useful Manike quoting Jim Drew was on PBN after he threatened them if they didnt remove his posts, how could I not make that available to everyone? Not sure how believable recalling a PM would be potentially years after it's sent. Hopefully not as useful as looking at Jim Drew's comments, there are already too many people like that around to tarnish things.

[Niox]

Not for a Pro Classic. A Pro Classic is $229 on the airgun store. But as it's been said, there are shipping costs and the like. Then again, doesn't AGD Europe make some of the guns over there?

And just when I thought I was overreacting way too much... we are shown that PM. Wow, disturbing.

Hiya bud, AGD Europe went bust a few years ago because no one was buying anything.

If you manage to sneak your way onto the old AGD Europe website then look around at the prices on there, £425 for an RT. AGD Europe (http://www.airgun.com/Europe/products.shtml) .

Fat Bob's prices are inline with what we are for the most part paying in the UK, don't forget that the Classic Mags on Fat Bob's store do come fitted with a ULE body.