"HEY TOM" New idea's for AGD?

[Automagsam]

Hey, i know you probably can't say alot, but if Tom or anyone else here could fill me in on any clues or hints on anything new and revolutionary coming out of the all powerful AGD think tank whether it be a gun or upgrades. I understand if you can't cause I'm sure it's all pretty much top secret. Well, if you can respond, that'd be great.

[__Phoenix__]

Nothing is coming rom AGD.
Not now, probably never again.

[Desega]

Tom's diggin up dinos now. He retired, why are you asking him what he's doing with the company if he doesn't run it anymore?

[HoppysMag]

truly great innovations are long gone. those days ended. now its all each companys next Wizbang idea. that will be poorly build, overpriced and marketed "To the exxxtreme!"

[bentothejam1n]

Tom's diggin up dinos now. He retired, why are you asking him what he's doing with the company if he doesn't run it anymore?
i think he does own part of AGD just not the inventory
feel free to correct me though

[Automagsam]

Yeah as far as I know he still does own it right, I'm not sure, I know however he would'nt let all his work just stop, with whoever is working on it, plus I'm sure he still steps in and says his word, it's like paul mccartney not making music, sure he can do his paintings and charity, but he can't walk away from the music full blown.

[Lenny]

AGD's not really going anywhere. Tom's out on his own adventures and Zupan isn't pressing it forward. They're just sitting.

It'd be kinda nice though for Zupan to troll the forums a little more...

[snoopay700]

I hope they come out with something new and innovative, even if i won't be able to afford it.

[AGD]

Yes I do still own AGD, Zupe owns the inventory and is selling things. It is certainly not clear even if we did make something that people would buy it. Look at the slug body threads where the screams for product are answered but the product remains unsold.

There is a ton going on in the industry right now with the whole NPS/PMI consolidation and yet another new round of lawsuits. My take on that is that its not worth any companies time to develop new products, its better to go sue someone for the money the old products are generating.

I am sitting back until I see ABSOULUTELY CLEARLY that there is a true demand for a product that is either unpatentable or I already have a patent on. That is a pretty small window to shoot for and unlikely to happen soon. The forum is unreliable for marketing purposes, a few people can make a big noise.

AGD

[PsychoBaller]

Still lovin' to post during insomnia hours aye Tom? Mind is a restless sponge in the wee hrs of the morn', haha.


I hear ya, and disappointinly agree, regarding most of what ya said above. What has happened to Paintball as we used to know it? Age of electros and lawsuits bringing the essence and comradery of paintball to an end?


But at least the Forum, in and of itself, is attempting to keep that AGD dream alive. Couple o nice Dealers and their products, small bits of AO Spirit found in selected pockets here and there.



-baller

[AGD]

Hey, they stopped making big block 442's and Chevelle's 30 years ago but they are still going strong in the small dedicated group that knows and loves them. You can't expect GM to make them again just because there is a dedicated fan base, but that fan base can keep them alive.

AGD

[Lenny]

Tom speaks truth!

If you want a new product, feel free to make it yourself. I'm not trying to be sadistic in any way, just realistic. The market really isn't going anywhere; and for AGD to make a new product that will only sell very limitedly is a waste of time and effort. I'm sure Tom still thinks about paintball and different little things he could do for the industry, but the industry would probably reject it and only a few people (overall) would respect it.

But like I said, feel free to make new stuff. You aren't the only one praying for it. Look at all the pneumags built because people are tired of waiting for DW or PTP. Look at the iMags and Spydermags. I have an iMag almost completed. I wanted one simply because I don't like the honkin' battery on the EMag, but I love my Automag enough to want it as my primary electro.

And that's all I gots to say 'bout that.

[trevorjk]

And that's all I gots to say 'bout that.

are you sure? :cheers:

[Lenny]

are you sure? :cheers:
Well, I was going to continue, but my ADD got the best of me and I lost my train of thought.

So, yeah.

[matteusz]

I think the new thing to make for paintball is a new GAME. One is which the focus is not on marketing, money, scantily clad girls and cable channel glory. So the old game really but made new. I just read an interview in which Tom was talking about classifications and competition based on the marker you use from back in 1994. Man I wish that would have caught on. Open class formula one (but still a group of guys who play for respect based on character and skill), stock class based on what paintball started out as and semi class with limited rate of fire, limited paint and an ever varying field setup (or at least one designed to force you to play by your wits and not based on your ability to wipe while sliding). The greatest thing anyone could give to paintball now is direction towards becoming a sport. I realize I am preaching to the choir but I can't help it.

It would be awesome if industry leaders would all sit down and agree on 3 guns that everyone could make and sell and that everyone would support via a new tournament format that would be tough as all get out to get into. The guns would have to be suited to the games (see above for what I am after in a game that would become a sport). Everyone making the same thing (go crazy with color, materials whatever but performance is limited by the guts which all come from the same specs) would greatly reduce the price. Everyone requiring its use in a tournament circuit that required a showing of honorable playing to get in and skill/ teamwork to get ahead would turn the industry on its head. The speed mountain would all of a sudden be a hill in a foreign and soon to be forgotten country. The skill mountain would quickly weed out the idiots and turn some heads towards what would emerge as true pursuit games. It has to come from the top down or it will take too long to emerge. If we all wait for market forces to drive the profitability out or the "sport" that paintball has currently shaped up to be thus returning it to its smaller and more honorable state it may never happen. The recurring surge on pump popularity is proof that there are honorable people around interested in a skill based game but teenage kiddies are too distracted by the naked chicks to come to the conclusion on their own that a game without an organizing body and rule making and enforcing entity will never be more than a weekend distraction.

The game has always been shaped by the guns (granted players have done the lions share in recent years of ruining things) and for the industry leaders to stop and read the writing on the wall and find a way to take the sport ruining idiots out of the equation would be the salvation of the passtime that I love. Show us how to get together and make something based on honor. Write it on the blasted guns for heavens sake. And then give us back the game that got you here. If the big guys could get together and do that I think all of us little guys would step into a long line of people anxious to create a sport out of the fiasco we have on our hands right now. Let the NPPL PSP whoever simply go on their merry way. Meanwhile quietly announce together with Bud Orr, and whoever else you can get to come to the table a unified league of sellers working to create a game (not a market that will create itself in the form of ticket sales and entry fees) based on a product so cheap and so simple that it leave the guy holding it with nothing to do but think about the game and train his tail end off working to compete against others doing the same in the true spirit of competition. A game based on the people holding the equipment not the marketing behind the electrode running the massive amount of paint being spewed at the bikini on the other end of the field.

I so should be in bed. How about you?

[spaz66777]

Like said above. I wanted a pistol and I like AGD so I saved up and got a Sydarm. I'm happy with that. I like the way it performs and feels when shooting it or just plain holding it. (mag love baby!)

I really don't see the general public coming back to mags any time soon. The main reason I made the Journey was that I played with a Phantom for a while and I liked th fact that mags could hit such high BPS mech and not need any batteries. I now own two mags and I am very happy with each.

Thanks Tom for making such good products and perfecting them with the Level 10, ULE triger kit, X valve, ULE body, Intelli frame, need I go on?

What more could AGD do? They have tried Electros, got some good threats. They have (IMHO) the best mech on the market as far as features go. They have advertised. They have been to major shows and event to display there products to all the "Tourny" guys. The "Now" market is Scenario paintball and they have met that market head on with the Tac-one. Spec ops has also made parts for the Tac-One and they regard it as one of the best Scenario markers on the market.

Again, Thanks Tom!

P.S. Yes I should be in bed. All-nighter with homework. Yay. Is it Spring break yet?!?!?

-Spaz

[BigEvil]

Hey, they stopped making big block 442's and Chevelle's 30 years ago but they are still going strong in the small dedicated group that knows and loves them. You can't expect GM to make them again just because there is a dedicated fan base, but that fan base can keep them alive.

AGD

Yup, but there is a strong dedicated aftermarket creating parts and such. Hopefully guys like Rogue, Tuna, and now Jay (sorry if I forgot anyone) can keep this ball rolling along.

[Automagsam]

Thanks Tom, and yeah you guys are right about all the after market stuff, it is nice to see such a huge fan base, and when we go to Paintball Sam's there is always someone with a mag, or someone commenting on how cool our mags are, it is like one big family. Yeah and the whole lawsuit thing, really ticks me and my friend off, but hopefully, with companies like invert putting out the mini, which if you haven't checked it out, this thing is pretty smart, anyways with companies like that it sheds some hope on the industry, but it also shows how much AGD changed the paintball world cause almost every where you look now you see guns that are using things AGD came up with, or just using the idea. I'm just waiting for Invert to get sued, cause it seems like other companies, and I won't name names but we know who they are, are trying to dominate using cheap tactics. Oh well I'll be with AGD's products till I'm being dug up by Tom in some field lol.

[turbo chicken]

Look at the slug body threads where the screams for product are answered but the product remains unsold.


I thought there weren't anymore ... guess i need to check again ...

[DSR75]

If anyone can point out where I can get a slug body, let me know. I know some people that would be really interested in getting their hands on some.

[captian pinky]

when is agd gunna sue someone for some money hahaha i love u tk

i own 5 mags now love them i will always have at least 1 or more in my arsenal

i think that we should start a new speedball tourny mech only only batteries are to hoppers thats it i think it would slow the game down alot and not only that bring mags back into the game because we are the only gun that can produce the bps without beeing electro so TK feel free to take this and go with it because i love agd i love mags and i love to shoot them and so do most of the people at pbc in sc i was at the field yesterday and counted atleast 10 +mags

[Coralis]

es I do still own AGD, Zupe owns the inventory and is selling things. It is certainly not clear even if we did make something that people would buy it. Look at the slug body threads where the screams for product are answered but the product remains unsold.

There are slug bodies laying around unsold ?? My tax return should be in soon have to look into this.

[snoopay700]

Yeah, the industry has really gone south, and i really wish i were old enough to play in the better days. Paintball is past it's heyday as far as being great, but it is in it's heyday as far as popularity and making money.

matteusz, you have a good idea, but most companies wont follow it and plus i like seeing growth, buth when all of the companies make similar markers (like it is now, AGD is still the only company that's just a little different) growth of the sport dies. I have actually been wanting to play pump for a while just to get back to the basics and not waste paint, and over all learn even more skill (my goal was to get a team together who could slaughter in speedball with talons). I mean i already get a lot of people out in 1-3 shots, but i'm still not as good as i'd like to be (i'll occasionally waste paint), and i'm tired of not having money for a good pump so i've decided to scrap my pnuemag idea for a bit and buy a talon and play with that, and alternate between that and my rt, so i learn how to use those tactics with that gun.

The industry is too far under in my opinion though, and i don't ever think it's coming back, but i really do hope that they bring back woodsball tournaments because i love woodsball (though speedball can be a rush) and would love to go into a tournament like that, but if they do they should restrict it to 200 rounds, but you can have as fast of a marker as you want. I view paintball like racing, woodsball is like circuit or road racing (not nascar) where you need to use more skill, speedball is like drag racing in which it's a rush but it doesn't take too much skill once you learn the basics.

Anyway, i really should've separated that post, it got pretty ugly because i didn't (actually i should do that now..) but yeah, paintball is definitely in a downward spiral and i understand you not wanting to come out with new products, because it's people like me who want new products, yet we lack funds. I really hope the industry looks up and smart parts goes out of business though, they are the worst thing to happen to paintball (proof here, curtosey of doc: http://www.vm68.com/stuff/smart_parts_is_evil.html ) and once companies like them are gone i think AGD can finally come out with new products without worrying and really change the sport for the better.

[tech-chan]

This thread made me cry...

[snoopay700]

This thread made me cry...
Yeah, but it's good because it'll save agd any trouble of a lawsuit and such until things get better, if they ever do, then things might start appearing from agd again (though in all honesty i can't imagine how they can improve on what they have). So basically the only way to have a hope of seeing anything from them is for companies like smartparts that care only about money and not about the sport to go down, and because of the stupid kids, like some of my friends who buy into the whole paintball hype and how it's possible to walk faster than 15 bps, i don't see those companies going down anytime soon.

[turbo chicken]

Now that i read it again ... about the slug bodies ... I think tom meant ... something like ... we made them and they didn't exactly fly off of the shelves at release ... it took a long time to sell all of them ... thus the "sitting on shelves" comment

[nathanjones008]

these are very good points airgun has made great products. they are near perfect. something i would like to see is some type of valve that would make your maker shoot further into the tank. cheap 200 dolla electos get over 1000-1200, shots easly out of a 68/45 . Out of my mag i am lucky to get 800. other than that the airgun products are perfect.

[matteusz]

Efficiency would be great. Now that I have had a little sleep and time at the park with the kid to clear my head I can see the point of my ramblings from last night even clearer. The idea is not to defeat the litigious imbeciles ruining paintball the idea is to ignore them let them go on their merry way and create something with the exceptions to the idiocy that will open up a whole new market. A producer driven tournament league with the goal of the game becoming the sport would not only contribute to the survival of paintball it would also create a new market (and the need to create a new product).

You make guys play take with paint soaked battle swabs for a year before they can graduate to pump play and 20 rounds and you will see some motivation to gain skill. The guys playing semi with 100 rounds would be demigods. The rest would fall into place.

[AGDRetro]

I honestly like supporting what many might view as a sort of Ma & Pa manufacturer. I would love to see AGD flourish but at the same time, I like the "what is that?" attention that my Mag grabs at alot of local fields. They already have so many great products, and part of why I love them is their dedication to providing the finest mechanical gun money can buy. Performance that comes from finely tuned parts and engineering as opposed to the programming on a circuit board is worth so much more to me. I have 2 Mags right now, and have seriously thought about building a 3rd one. Right now the only thing I can say I would really like to see come out of AGD is aluminum Classic valves...

Tom & the AGD Crew will move when the time is right :cheers:

[snoopay700]

Efficiency would be great. Now that I have had a little sleep and time at the park with the kid to clear my head I can see the point of my ramblings from last night even clearer. The idea is not to defeat the litigious imbeciles ruining paintball the idea is to ignore them let them go on their merry way and create something with the exceptions to the idiocy that will open up a whole new market. A producer driven tournament league with the goal of the game becoming the sport would not only contribute to the survival of paintball it would also create a new market (and the need to create a new product).

You make guys play take with paint soaked battle swabs for a year before they can graduate to pump play and 20 rounds and you will see some motivation to gain skill. The guys playing semi with 100 rounds would be demigods. The rest would fall into place.
Yeah, but as cool as that sounds, it seems like too much overkill for anyone to even think about picking it up, but i do like your idea, only they have paintbrushes instead.

[Dryden]

these are very good points airgun has made great products. they are near perfect. something i would like to see is some type of valve that would make your maker shoot further into the tank. cheap 200 dolla electos get over 1000-1200, shots easly out of a 68/45 . Out of my mag i am lucky to get 800. other than that the airgun products are perfect.
Given what I have read from AGD's responses to this in the past, you're not going to see it, because it is exactly the opposite of AGD's design of the Mag, and where the Mag would eventually lead in its next incarnation. The higher the pressure, the faster the recharge. I believe Tom commented a year or two ago that his ideal gun would operate at an even higher pressure than what's used today, but he knows nobody would buy it for the exact reason you've cited, and he probably couldn't make the loader/hopper to feed it without getting sued or paying somebody royalties.

This is the same discussion that's been kicked around re: Airgun for at least the last five years. TK could make the most innovative and groundbreaking paintball gear the industry has seen in the past ten years and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. Make a ULE body and offer it in five different colors and AGD couldn't keep those in stock.

[snoopay700]

Given what I have read from AGD's responses to this in the past, you're not going to see it, because it is exactly the opposite of AGD's design of the Mag, and where the Mag would eventually lead in its next incarnation. The higher the pressure, the faster the recharge. I believe Tom commented a year or two ago that his ideal gun would operate at an even higher pressure than what's used today, but he knows nobody would buy it for the exact reason you've cited, and he probably couldn't make the loader/hopper to feed it without getting sued or paying somebody royalties.

This is the same discussion that's been kicked around re: Airgun for at least the last five years. TK could make the most innovative and groundbreaking paintball gear the industry has seen in the past ten years and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. Make a ULE body and offer it in five different colors and AGD couldn't keep those in stock.
Hell, my mag's a gas hog anyway, and i usually get all day air so i can refill my tank after every game or two, unless i shot barely anything at all, so if he did make it i would definitely buy it, though a great marker does not one die hard fan make. If he could get a difinite number of people who were stoked on it and could get around the hopper difficulty then i hope to see something like that, because i truly believe that the world record for most cycles per second could be topped by him and maybe a few others.

[Dryden]

If he could get a difinite number of people who were stoked on it and could get around the hopper difficulty then i hope to see something like that, because i truly believe that the world record for most cycles per second could be topped by him and maybe a few others.
And that's exactly how it begins ...

AO: Make it Tom.
Tom: No. You guys need to buy at least 500.
AO: Make it Tom, we'll buy it.
Tom: No. You just say you will but you know you won't.
AO: No, we'll buy it. In fact, we're going to bug you about it every day until it's up in the AGD store.

(one year later)

Tom: OK. It's done ... up on the Airgun store.
AO: What, no colors?

:p

[snoopay700]

And that's exactly how it begins ...

AO: Make it Tom.
Tom: No. You guys need to buy at least 500.
AO: Make it Tom, we'll buy it.
Tom: No. You just say you will but you know you won't.
AO: No, we'll buy it. In fact, we're going to bug you about it every day until it's up in the AGD store.

(one year later)

Tom: OK. It's done ... up on the Airgun store.
AO: What, no colors?

:p
Haha, very true, and i'm not urging him to make it, i was just saying that i'd buy it and hope that when the industry levels out he'll make it, but who knows. Also, i don't normally care about colors, but xmags do look nice i will admit and i hope to own one someday.

What he could do is develop a new valve or gun or whatever for himself, show videos of what it's capable of, and then get 500 preorders or whatever, and of course people will have to wait, but it'll be worth it. Just an idea...

[zorrotmm]

I agree with much of what matteusz and others have said about the game. The arms race really kicked off with electros, and that's had a significant negative effect, but equipment manufacturers have run the sport since the beginning, and until that ends the game will never stop being focused on the equipment. The only way to change things is for new industry leaders to emerge that develop the sport with fields and game/competition formats that the equipment manufacturers don't have a hand in. Only then can the SPORT tell the MANUFACTURERS what to make, as opposed to the manufacturers telling the sport what to do and use.

I do disagree with one thing you said matteusz, although you're not the first to say it. Several people have suggested that we dictate what equipment people can use based on their time playing. The problem is that isn't realistic or enforceable. Nor would it be a good thing if it was. It would still breed elitism based on equipment, and we would be back at square one. And it would be counter productive to try and limit people in rec ball. However, what CAN be regulated and enforced is what players are using in organized competition formats. Much can be done there to make the playing field level. I think most would agree that the current equipment limitations are a joke. We don't need new stuff or better stuff anymore. We just need to give competing players equal access to the SAME stuff.

[Lenny]

Now that i read it again ... about the slug bodies ... I think tom meant ... something like ... we made them and they didn't exactly fly off of the shelves at release ... it took a long time to sell all of them ... thus the "sitting on shelves" comment
really ... what makes ... you think that ...

:dodgy:

[nate2k191]

man, tom's smart, and he made a great analogy to GM's old cars.

I love my mags, they're like vintage cars - im not dying for any new products, however, i would gladly welcome them, if the market ever allows.

[Automagsam]

If we can take anything away form this thread, I'd say its that, we together are all members of the AGD company, in our own right. The gun will get old, it will age but it will not go our of style, as long as we keep it that way. If we want to fix the industry, its up to us, to show that there are people who still do care, it is up to us to push for what is right, and not let other people walk all over us and tell us this is right or this is wrong. We are the future of the company, when we go away, AGD goes away, so let us stand strong!

[Ninjeff]

:clap: :clap:

[Stealthgerbil]

All we need is an e-trigger or a sort of 'kit' to convert an intilliframe to be an e-trigger and life would be good. Just keep making the x-valves and ULE-RT pros and people will keep using mags. It sucks that e-mag lowers aren't being produced anymore, because everyone knows e-mags are badass and it sucks that we cant buy them anymore :(

[JKR]

If we can take anything away form this thread, I'd say its that, we together are all members of the AGD company, in our won right. The gun will get old, it will age but it will not go our of style, as long as we keep it that way. If we want to fix the industry, its up to us, to show that there are people who still do care, it is up to us to push for what is right, and not let other people walk all over us and tell us this is right or this is wrong. We are the future of the company, when we go away, AGD goes away, so let us stand strong!

Since AGD solidarity is the topic at hand, lets all try to do our best to get someone we know to buy a 'Mag this year. Personally, I am going to try and convince my brother to get back into paintball and buy a 'Mag.

JKR

[Lenny]

Since AGD solidarity is the topic at hand, lets all try to do our best to get someone we know to buy a 'Mag this year. Personally, I am going to try and convince my brother to get back into paintball and buy a 'Mag.

JKR
My buddy is building an Automag. He was VERY interested in the Cerberus Airwalk and ordered one, and he's not even on AO. (He ordered it through me)

'Mags are still out there; being built, being shot, being sold, and being bought. Us AOers are not the only ones.

Just keep that in mind.

[snoopay700]

My buddy is building an Automag. He was VERY interested in the Cerberus Airwalk and ordered one, and he's not even on AO. (He ordered it through me)

'Mags are still out there; being built, being shot, being sold, and being bought. Us AOers are not the only ones.

Just keep that in mind.
No, we're just the only ones that matter ;)

[matteusz]

I agree with much of what matteusz and others have said about the game. The arms race really kicked off with electros, and that's had a significant negative effect, but equipment manufacturers have run the sport since the beginning, and until that ends the game will never stop being focused on the equipment. The only way to change things is for new industry leaders to emerge that develop the sport with fields and game/competition formats that the equipment manufacturers don't have a hand in. Only then can the SPORT tell the MANUFACTURERS what to make, as opposed to the manufacturers telling the sport what to do and use.

I do disagree with one thing you said matteusz, although you're not the first to say it. Several people have suggested that we dictate what equipment people can use based on their time playing. The problem is that isn't realistic or enforceable. Nor would it be a good thing if it was. It would still breed elitism based on equipment, and we would be back at square one. And it would be counter productive to try and limit people in rec ball. However, what CAN be regulated and enforced is what players are using in organized competition formats. Much can be done there to make the playing field level. I think most would agree that the current equipment limitations are a joke. We don't need new stuff or better stuff anymore. We just need to give competing players equal access to the SAME stuff.


Access to the same stuff is what I am all about. The time reference in my comments what meant to be an indication of the time is takes to put in the effort to gain skill. I think people should be limited on their equipment in order to increase skill. And visa versa if you don't have the skills you don't belong on the same hill as the guy who does. A real sport would not allow this so as to protect the players and the sport. A marketing driven game is happy to sell you the idea of skill in a box. It has been a reciprocal relationship. Teens hungry for success, acceptance, semi naked chicks attention etc. . . . blow their paychecks on equipment made by manufacturers racing to create the new thing. In the vacuum being left and tournament ball implodes rec players should come out of the woods and drag the game back to where it belong and make it a sport.

[snoopay700]

I just came up with an idea, and it doesn't even have to come from agd, how about a hot looking ULE body for the classic rt? I would kill for one of those, because i would get mine powdercoated, but i only have one body, and i'd prefer to keep it imaculate.

[Desega]

I'm glad TK cleared up my missunderstanding. I thought he was done with AGD. Now I'm happy.

[Lenny]

I'm glad TK cleared up my missunderstanding. I thought he was done with AGD. Now I'm happy.
I don't think Tom will ever truly be "done" with paintball. I mean, it's been a huge part of his life for so long. He's just doing some other stuff that he enjoys right now.

[thecavemankevin]

semi off topic here: does anyone have that pic of Tom from a WW2 scenario (i think) about 3-4 years ago i think where he was running with two sidearms, a welcome home mat sticking out the top back of his shirt? I think he was running across a bridge.

anyone remember that?

[turbo chicken]

semi off topic here: does anyone have that pic of Tom from a WW2 scenario (i think) about 3-4 years ago i think where he was running with two sidearms, a welcome home mat sticking out the top back of his shirt? I think he was running across a bridge.

anyone remember that?

##EDIT## look here!!! (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207384&highlight=d-day)

[nathanjones008]

:shooting: :dance: as long as they have parts kit for my ule rt i am peachy

[JimmyBeam]

##EDIT## look here!!! (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207384&highlight=d-day)


so you don't have to click

http://www.tomkaye.com/images/DDAY2003_lrg.jpg

[thecavemankevin]

##EDIT## look here!!! (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207384&highlight=d-day)


thanx man, been semi looking for that for a while now

[turbo chicken]

really ... what makes ... you think that ...

:dodgy:

Just trying to read into his comment ... i could be completely wrong ...

but When i first read his post It sounded like that still had slug bodies in stock ... which if i remember correctly is not true ...

whatever ... IDK ... that was just my interpretation

[skife]

Hey, they stopped making big block 442's and Chevelle's 30 years ago but they are still going strong in the small dedicated group that knows and loves them. You can't expect GM to make them again just because there is a dedicated fan base, but that fan base can keep them alive.

AGD


but they continued to make 442 until about 92-93 i think, they were turbo quad 4 motors with a 5 speed.

[don miguel]

Nothing is coming rom AGD.
Not now, probably never again.

you were right when you said this thread pops up every month or so.

[Desega]

you were right when you said this thread pops up every moth or so.
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:dBfYD0txbwSLbM:http://www.freeimage4u.com/images/moth.jpg

[[NA]WARLORD]

Hey, they stopped making big block 442's and Chevelle's 30 years ago but they are still going strong in the small dedicated group that knows and loves them. You can't expect GM to make them again just because there is a dedicated fan base, but that fan base can keep them alive.

AGD


Actually, GM still makes those motors, just not the cars they went into.

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/454CI425HP-Off-Road-Crate-Engine-with-Iron-HeadRoller-Cam-12568774-P17C54.aspx
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/ZZ454-Crate-Engine-440-HP-with-Aluminum-Heads-12498777-P799C54.aspx


You can find just about any motor in crate form as long as the manufacturer doesn't offer it as a motor in their current line up of vehicles. Same holds true for Harley's. I agree that Mags have a strong following, I buy and sell them frequently, as a matter of fact, 2 weeks ago, I bought 2 Mags for 100.00 from a local shop (shop owner and techs had no idea about them), tuned them and tripled my money back on them. I have one I'm working on now and the money earned will go into finishing my Pnuemag.

I fully support AGD and always have. We may be a small group in this vast sport, but loyalty goes a long way and speaks for itself.

[FlawleZ]

Hey, they stopped making big block 442's and Chevelle's 30 years ago but they are still going strong in the small dedicated group that knows and loves them. You can't expect GM to make them again just because there is a dedicated fan base, but that fan base can keep them alive.

AGD


Not to intentionally contradict Tom's analogy, but another comparable situation was the Nissan Z.

The Z car was produced from 1970-1996 in America ('99 in Japan). In the mid 90's Nissan realized the market was dying for ~$50K sports car. The SUV craze was hitting strong and people really questioned why they should buy a 2 seater sports car when they could have a fully loaded Suburban for the same price. As sales dwindled through the 90's the 300ZX met its demise on American soil in 1996 and Nissan decided to cease production of the Z car completely as the market no longer held a viable option for what had become of the Z.

In 2003, Nissan reinvented the Z again. Going back to the roots of the car (240Z), the 350Z offered more for less and is now currently the best selling sports car in the world. What changed? Nissan went back to the original idea that made the Z what it was. Affordable performance.

Now, this can relate a couple of levels but I like to look at as AGD invented the 68 Classic which revolutionized the competitive scene in the mid 90's. As AGD progressed with its development of markers, so did the market. With the invention of the Emag/Xmag, the mag had reached the pinnacle of performance, and rightfully so. With the performance and quality, it was also slapped with a price tag to match (1990-1996 300ZX Z32TT>Corvette performance but ~$50K :nono: ) With lawsuits and unethical marketing tactics, the E/Xmag finally peaked and sales dropped. Thus leaving in roughly the same position a few years ago as we are now.

As much of an intellectual powerhouse that AGD is, I fully believe they are capable of developing a gun to revolutionize the competitive scene today. But just because they're capable doesn't mean they will or it would even be a logical investment.

[Sammy Sandbag]

WARLORD"]Actually, GM still makes those motors, just not the cars they went into.

442 isn't a motor...... Those links you have are to a 454.

442 was a package (four-barrel carburetor, four-speed transmission, and dual (2) exhausts)

[[NA]WARLORD]

442 isn't a motor...... Those links you have are to a 454.

442 was a package (four-barrel carburetor, four-speed transmission, and dual (2) exhausts)


I know what a 442 is, it's made by Oldsmobile based on the Cutlass. It also had a 455 c.i. engine which was based off that same block. So, essentially, its the same engine.

[Sammy Sandbag]

WARLORD']I know what a 442 is, it's made by Oldsmobile based on the Cutlass. It also had a 455 c.i. engine which was based off that same block. So, essentially, its the same engine.

True. I was just following up Tom's point that the car itself is no longer in production.

[Swampy]

Hey, they stopped making big block 442's and Chevelle's 30 years ago but they are still going strong in the small dedicated group that knows and loves them. You can't expect GM to make them again just because there is a dedicated fan base, but that fan base can keep them alive.

I understand that TK. But GM shifted in another direction and came out with something new. I might be called a heritic (SP?) but TK's orginal design is dead. It had a good run something like 15+ years pretty much the longest lasting design out there. But I feel AGD should move in a new direction weather making detents or frames upgrades for other companies to producing a whole new marker.

By the way just because a auto manufacture stop making a car/truck they still have to produce parts for said car/truck to last ten years. Worked in the Supply Chain for MOPAR for a few winters.

[G Squat]

I agree with swampy. I say look at the forums here and look at the popularity of say... a pneumag. What if AGD were to produce a ready to go, new bodied, railed, pneu-framed automag. How could a gun that shoots just as walkable as any electro, has the anti-chop capabilities of the lvl 10 (which my recent thread shows just how many people have never chopped a ball with the lvl 10... some people who shoot guns with eyes cant even say that), and all with no batteries not sell like mad. That is assuming its reasonably priced. I understand this sort of thing may cost a lot to make, but it seems like AGD just needs to go for broke. It doesnt even have to be exactly that. Just something that shows obvious popularity not only among AO's, but across the entire PB universe.

What about the warp feed. A huge hit that got crazy for a little while but not exactly on spot. Its a little cumbersome and unsightly. I always thought it would be cool to somehow have the paintballs come forcefed up through the foregrip with the feeding system located somewhere in the rear. Nothing but a detent on the top.

AGD should look at whats popular in AO forums, take the modern luxuries and advancements of todays equipment, slam it with a little revolutionary sauce (mmmmm, revolutionary sauce) and show the PB community something new. And hopefully with the support of everyone at AO, it'll be enough to kick start AGD back into scene.

[ProblemKinder]

I agree with swampy. I say look at the forums here and look at the popularity of say... a pneumag. What if AGD were to produce a ready to go, new bodied, railed, pneu-framed automag. How could a gun that shoots just as walkable as any electro, has the anti-chop capabilities of the lvl 10 (which my recent thread shows just how many people have never chopped a ball with the lvl 10... some people who shoot guns with eyes cant even say that), and all with no batteries not sell like mad. That is assuming its reasonably priced. I understand this sort of thing may cost a lot to make, but it seems like AGD just needs to go for broke. It doesnt even have to be exactly that. Just something that shows obvious popularity not only among AO's, but across the entire PB universe.

What about the warp feed. A huge hit that got crazy for a little while but not exactly on spot. Its a little cumbersome and unsightly. I always thought it would be cool to somehow have the paintballs come forcefed up through the foregrip with the feeding system located somewhere in the rear. Nothing but a detent on the top.

AGD should look at whats popular in AO forums, take the modern luxuries and advancements of todays equipment, slam it with a little revolutionary sauce (mmmmm, revolutionary sauce) and show the PB community something new. And hopefully with the support of everyone at AO, it'll be enough to kick start AGD back into scene.


if I'm not mistaken, there is a patent out there, owned by somebody that is hampering the mass production of PneuFrames. somebody correct me if I'm wrong, or validate my statement if I'm right.

AO was created for the soul purpose's of giving us mag owners a place to go for techincal support and to give AGD R&D constructive feedback. I'm sure the technicians are reading every post of this forum while they figure out what and when they are going to do with the company.

[Mongoose]

if I'm not mistaken, there is a patent out there, owned by somebody that is hampering the mass production of PneuFrames. somebody correct me if I'm wrong, or validate my statement if I'm right.

AO was created for the soul purpose's of giving us mag owners a place to go for techincal support and to give AGD R&D constructive feedback. I'm sure the technicians are reading every post of this forum while they figure out what and when they are going to do with the company.


Yes i think your right.
if AGD came out with a p-mag they would be sued the very next day!
But i think the best part about AGD is that they were always ahead of there time!
And im having a blast building my own p-mags. Not to mention all the kids thinking i have the newest tightest shocker out there!!!! :wow:
BATTERIES ARE FOR GIRLS

P.S. Hey Tom are there any patents on building a body and rail that can house a LPR? or did smart parts claim that also.

I only drive a GM and only shoot a MAG
Goose

[Liquid Plummer]

What will drive AGD into a deeper state of stagnation is if they keep shooting their largest corporate customers in the foot.

When the Tacs converted to the new rail design, one of their biggest customers (Spec Ops) had no idea that one of their flagship products, and a decent source of AGD sales was now dead. Just by AGD changing rails. It seems minor, but when you're already a struggling company with only a couple of products that people even remember anymore why would you do something so ridiculous?

[Bigman]

I'm going to agree over the past year or so I've heard so much of interest into AGD mostly from the Tac-One what people see of the E-Mag and thier work for Spec Ops and yet here we are...
I was a strong support of AGD, beating the people back that where saying "Oh AGD is dead they haven't done anything in years..." knowing full well that there were still work at AGD. Yet here I am throwing in my towel, I've been expecting some signs of life from AGD even the up keep of its old lines and maybe cleaning up the E-Mag design abit, yet here I am. I rember the game where I first heard from Tom Kaye himself say that he was retiring, I was dumb struck but I understood, that was the begining. I was thinking that there would still be some life in the company. Then I see write ups about the Tac-One and E-Tac in 3 paintball magizines and I'm thinking "Hail to the King baby, AGD is back." Man have I been let down. Here he is one paintballs icons throwing in the towel faster than AKA, waiting for the market to turn around... I'll make this short, we fight for the Respect that the players should show AGD for AGD to turn around and openly say, we're done, just going to wait for the market to come around... When I myself want my own E-Tac and can't get it why should I defend a company that doesn't even fight for itself. WGP is on life support so they take a risk with a new marker that's comfortable to shoot, and keep pushing it even after the fan boys say it's ugly, they're still fighting. I'll leave you with a poem from Dylan Thomas about his dying father...
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

AGD place in the industry will be everlasting and what they occomplished will never be revoked but it's what you do when in the dying of the light that defines who you are.
Tom and all those AGD I love and respect you but nothing ever stops and the industry will continue to change and I as a player will evolve with it and stand out the coming implosion...
Good Luck and I hope you're time comes again, second chances are rare.
Sorry it wasn't short but needed to be said, atleast to me. Cheers, see you on the field.

[BigEvil]

When I myself want my own E-Tac and can't get it



Why cant you get an Etac? All it is, is an emag with a Tac-1 body..

..and not-for-nothing, it sucks, but TK and AGD are making the right move. (Right for them, wherever it leads to)

[Bigman]

Where can you get an E-Mag new?

[BigEvil]

Where can you get an E-Mag new?


If they arent listed on the AGD site, they could be waiting on TAC bodies. Tuna should have them. He's the man. Come to think about it, he may be part machine too. I think Tom built him. I guess that would make him a "Tom-bot" :)

[Dark Side]

If they arent listed on the AGD site, they could be waiting on TAC bodies. Tuna should have them. He's the man. Come to think about it, he may be part machine too. I think Tom built him. I guess that would make him a "Tom-bot" :)

That maybe the direction the company is going....

[viper-mayhem]

AGD place in the industry will be everlasting and what they occomplished will never be revoked but it's what you do when in the dying of the light that defines who you are.
Tom and all those AGD I love and respect you but nothing ever stops and the industry will continue to change and I as a player will evolve with it and stand out the coming implosion...
Good Luck and I hope you're time comes again, second chances are rare.
Sorry it wasn't short but needed to be said, atleast to me. Cheers, see you on the field.
So where will you go. I am a diehard Angel fan, no matter what anyone says. I'll defend them all the way. Last week I became a AGD owner too. I believe I have the best of both worlds. Mech and Electro.

[Liquid Plummer]

Well, a simple thing would be to sell E-Mag lowers to those of us that already have multiple mag and can't see the sense in shelling out another $1200. I have a classic. I have a Warp Tac. What I would like is to have EMag Lowers. When I asked AGD to buy just the lowers I was told very clearly that it was not possible, nor would it ever be possible.

So, I now have to resort to buying lowers used instead of new from the company that made them.


New idea! Sell Loweers.

[skife]

WARLORD']I know what a 442 is, it's made by Oldsmobile based on the Cutlass. It also had a 455 c.i. engine which was based off that same block. So, essentially, its the same engine.



wrong.

442's have had everything from a 455 to a 4cylinder.

307's 400's

the first year wasn't even a 455, it was a 330 :P



everything you ever wanted to know about a 442 olds (http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/of442.htm#442%20Meaning(s))

[Swampy]

Well, a simple thing would be to sell E-Mag lowers to those of us that already have multiple mag and can't see the sense in shelling out another $1200. I have a classic. I have a Warp Tac. What I would like is to have EMag Lowers. When I asked AGD to buy just the lowers I was told very clearly that it was not possible, nor would it ever be possible.

So, I now have to resort to buying lowers used instead of new from the company that made them.


New idea! Sell Loweers.

I know what your saying but it won't happen considering the E-Mag is very self supportive. From a business aspect why part something that works. Its the only one I know of in its class to be different.

[Liquid Plummer]

Why not part it out if it's so different? There are a lot of mags out there that could use em, but their owners can get electros that are hyped as better for far less than a base stock E-Mag. Why not give current mag owners a chance at it. I think I mentioned this over at SO, but what really is the harm in it? It didn't kill Kingman to sell their lowers seperate from their markers.

[ProblemKinder]

won't they get sued if they make an electric marker?

[wjr]

won't they get sued if they make an electric marker?


No, I think not, seeing as how they still make emags.

On the subject of lowers, I really don't think they'd end up selling that many. An emag costs about $1000 from AGD. Lets say that $300 is the valve. $150 is the body. That leaves a $550 set of emag lowers. That's alot do drop on just an electronic trigger frame. You'd really be better off selling the gun you have and then buy a brand new emag. The price would be about the same.

[viper-mayhem]

if I'm not mistaken, there is a patent out there, owned by somebody that is hampering the mass production of PneuFrames. somebody correct me if I'm wrong, or validate my statement if I'm right.
You are right about "someone hampering pneuframes". Deadlywind had something in the works but because of Proteam Products patent infringements, they had to stop R&D work or risk litigation. It's on their website. Too bad, I would love to see a company mass produce this.

[Don Carnage]

So why dosen't Pro Team Products use their patent to make a Pnu-Mag frame?

[ProblemKinder]

No, I think not, seeing as how they still make emags.



are you sure? i couldn't find one on their website.

and don't brand new angels and DM7/PM7's cost over 1000? why do people always say E-mags are so expensive? (this isn't directed towards you wjr, it's just a random thought I had while replying to your message) if I was the kind of guy that would shoot an electro, i would have no problem dropping 1000 on an Emag, rather than 1200 on the new DM7 or whatever other high end electro i might want. just my .02 i guess.

[trevorjk]

So why dosen't Pro Team Products use their patent to make a Pnu-Mag frame?


ask RRFireblade. as he is the one that would best know ;)

that and he reportedly said that his boss (or something like that) said it would happen blah blah blah talkity talkity... you get the picture

[olinar]

agd has nothing they could produce. patents are being held for both a pneumag frame as well as electronic markers. agd no longer is making emags but they are selling their remaining stock. so that means the only thing they could make are mechanical markers which are the best there is as it is. the only thing i could see them making are even more cosmetic parts, such as bodies rails, new frame designs, etc. im sure they are capable of producing whatever they wanted but money talks, so agd has been silent for a while. hell, with tom as the head of agd still theyve got a hell of a fighting chance.

[SN toter]

cant AGD sue..I dunno...just about everyone? I thought I read somewhere that they patented the air valve and how it pertains to HPA or something to that effect? I might be totally off here, something I swear I read once. I know they have too much class to do that though, one reason I love em....

I WOULD like to see pump kits again though, I bet that'd sell with the pump uprising going on nowadays.