Other blow forward type guns

[matteusz]

Ok so I am looking around at the many shiny guns out there and find myself caring less than I ever thought possible about looks and wanting to buy something with good guts. I know black dragun used to make a blow forward marker (and I shot one and loved it but for the discontinued factor).

Does anyone know of other guns that are blow forward designed? I have seen one or two but can't put my finger on them. Basically I am looking for mag type quality but perhaps another brand with better air efficiency. Anyone?

[custar]

The old ICD Desert Fox was a blow forward, similar to a mag in many ways. I don't know about efficiency, though. Foxes are nice markers, well made.

custar

[Lenny]

The BADGER!!!

Heh heh heh. I'm getting one!

[matteusz]

The BADGER!!!

Heh heh heh. I'm getting one!

Where I want one too! And I was hoping there would be something besides the SP8 and the Ion in production using this design. Maybe more obscure guns like the ones that seem they will never come to light here:

http://www.rexpaintball.com/com.php

Nice site but they haven't sold a single marker from what I can see. Anyone know of some decent guns out there that aren't overhyped electroes? Or have I found the only ones beyond the custom shops?

[Lenny]

Where I want one too!
Bacci over on MCB has a few he's having imported. I'm on his waiting list. I'm not sure of the cost, but I'm getting one regardless! I'm not even sure how many he's getting and how many he's promised away. I just made it known in the thread that I wanted one and he PM'd me telling me I'm on his list. So... *giddy*

Being the immense 'Mag fan that I am, the Badger should turn out to be a fun little gun!

[Rabbit]

Sheridan made a blowforward as well, the Equalizer I think.

[matteusz]

Sheridan made a blowforward as well, the Equalizer I think.


Right so it looks like all the other ones are antiques anyone wanna give me a tip on something mechanical and current besides a Palmers worth buying? Anyone?

[Automagsam]

I think the new invert mini might be blowforward, but I'm not sure.

[buzzboy]

Freestyles are essentially a mag with a solenoid+ram instead of a return spring.

[wjr]

Freestyles are essentially a mag with a solenoid+ram instead of a return spring.

You beat me to it.

And, I'm not really sure how many of these guns were made, but the armson semi is blowforward. Pics and details here. (http://www.haveblue.org/tech/armson/)

Then of course, there's a slew of british knock-off automags.

[warbeak2099]

Where I want one too! And I was hoping there would be something besides the SP8 and the Ion in production using this design. Maybe more obscure guns like the ones that seem they will never come to light here:

http://www.rexpaintball.com/com.php

Nice site but they haven't sold a single marker from what I can see. Anyone know of some decent guns out there that aren't overhyped electroes? Or have I found the only ones beyond the custom shops?

None of those are blow forwards. They're all just Black Dragun and Dragunfly clones. And what Dragun marker was a blowforward???

[Arstron]

Where I want one too! And I was hoping there would be something besides the SP8 and the Ion in production using this design. Maybe more obscure guns like the ones that seem they will never come to light here:

http://www.rexpaintball.com/com.php

Nice site but they haven't sold a single marker from what I can see. Anyone know of some decent guns out there that aren't overhyped electroes? Or have I found the only ones beyond the custom shops?

The rex markers are esentially the old Dragun and Odyssey markers. If that is the style marker you are wanting, I would highly recomend looking into the new fusion markers. They operate with the same idea in mind, but the fusion was built around the FASOR idea instead of just a modified spyder (like the dragun t1 was). Its very effeicent, has no LPR hose (air lines are milled into the body), really doesnt need any upgrades out of the box and only cost $375 new. The company that makes it has shown nothing but great customer service as well.

http://www.dangerouspower.com
http://www.fusionowners.org

[wjr]

The rex markers are esentially the old Dragun and Odyssey markers. If that is the style marker you are wanting, I would highly recomend looking into the new fusion markers. They operate with the same idea in mind, but the fusion was built around the FASOR idea instead of just a modified spyder (like the dragun t1 was). Its very effeicent, has no LPR hose (air lines are milled into the body), really doesnt need any upgrades out of the box and only cost $375 new. The company that makes it has shown nothing but great customer service as well.

http://www.dangerouspower.com
http://www.fusionowners.org


Arstron: AO's official Fusion salesman.

:p

[dave p]

i dont own any of the new guns, but i have been researching for the hell of it. its funny how history repeats itself, and how something that 'sucked' by everyones account is now good for some reason.

for instance this infinity marker and the fusion. they are this FASOR design. A BKO is the same design and it supposedly sucked. the real problem with the bko was the placement and style of the detent. the design works well. its just funny how you can repackage something and now its cool. and the infinity doesnt come with a low pressure reg. isnt this the reason impulses suck? i really think that these marketers are capitalizing on everyones short attention span.

the mini. i have seen the pics of the internals, and the operational diagrams, and while its not a mag in the strict sense, its very close to a mag for all intents and purposes. everyone is on board for this one though. but your average joe will say that mags are outdated and suck. and it looks pretty nice, but the machining of the internals appears to be no where near AGD quality. i dont doubt that it performs as advertised, and the price seems pretty good.

all i am saying is that it is funny how 'whats old is whats new'. im not bashing any of the above gear, i just want to know why these designs were once inferior and are now cool.

and for the record, i own a mag and a FASOR, and chose them specifically for what they are.

[snoopay700]

I think the new invert mini might be blowforward, but I'm not sure.
It is a blow forward, and from the guy's desrciption copies the level 10 bolt, only it has thepin hole in the body not the bolt (dunno if it acts teh same when it hits a ball, but it's supposed to make it go forward more gently, so it copies the level 10 in that aspect). I'm actually sort of let down to hear that the marker has trouble though, and they have to fix the problem, because it looked like a promising marker.

Also, i was already beaten to it, but yeah, the freestyle as well, but doesn't it use air pressure in place of a spring like the ion?

[wjr]

Here's a animation of te mini. (http://www.network54.com/Forum/9013/message/1166109506/Animation+of+how+the+Mini+works)

I'd say it's blow forward.


Also, i was already beaten to it, but yeah, the freestyle as well, but doesn't it use air pressure in place of a spring like the ion?

It would qualify as a spool valve, true. But apart from the springless part, it looks a whole lot like an automag.

Animation of freestyle (http://www.deadlywind.com/tech/marker_animations/index.html)

[snoopay700]

Here's a animation of te mini. (http://www.network54.com/Forum/9013/message/1166109506/Animation+of+how+the+Mini+works)

I'd say it's blow forward.



It would qualify as a spool valve, true. But apart from the springless part, it looks a whole lot like an automag.

Animation of freestyle (http://www.deadlywind.com/tech/marker_animations/index.html)
Ok, that's what i thought, i mean i know that it's the same as a classic mag pretty much, i was just making sure i was right about it being a spool valve and that i didn't misread the animation.

Edit: I was right about how the mini works, but it only copies the level 10 in it's way to slow down the bolt, it it were to actually pinch one it'd still blow through it, though i guess that'll probably never happen with the eyes.

[matteusz]

None of those are blow forwards. They're all just Black Dragun and Dragunfly clones. And what Dragun marker was a blowforward???


"the one" was blow forward (the rest were blow back). They even made a spyder "the one" kit to convert it to a blow forward marker. I can't believe it went by the wayside. Just goes to show you what consumers paintball players are.

[warbeak2099]

"the one" was blow forward (the rest were blow back). They even made a spyder "the one" kit to convert it to a blow forward marker. I can't believe it went by the wayside. Just goes to show you what consumers paintball players are.

No, the One was an electropneumatic spyder clone. It was not blowforward. It worked like a Raven Primal. The One kit and the Zip kit for spyders and electro mechanical draguns converted the gun into the same thing. Basically a low end Timmy.

The Mini has nothing to do with the function of an Automag. It is far different from an A.I.R valve or RT style valve. If you think by those animations that it is very similar or even the same, your technical knowledge is lacking.

[wjr]

The Mini has nothing to do with the function of an Automag. It is far different from an A.I.R valve or RT style valve. If you think by those animations that it is very similar or even the same, your technical knowledge is lacking.

Then how would you define a mini if it's not a blow forward?

[warbeak2099]

Then how would you define a mini if it's not a blow forward?

Oh it's a blowforward, but that doesn't mean it's a mag clone. It's a balanced poppit valve design. Much like the JCS King Cobra.

[wjr]

Oh it's a blowforward, but that doesn't mean it's a mag clone. It's a balanced poppit valve design. Much like the JCS King Cobra.


Who said it was a mag clone?

[warbeak2099]

Ok, that's what i thought, i mean i know that it's the same as a classic mag pretty much, i was just making sure i was right about it being a spool valve and that i didn't misread the animation.

Edit: I was right about how the mini works, but it only copies the level 10 in it's way to slow down the bolt, it it were to actually pinch one it'd still blow through it, though i guess that'll probably never happen with the eyes.

Right there. He also said that it copied the lvl 10 bolt somewhat. Again, Simon (Manike) has said time and time again that this is not true. The gun was designed independent of the Mag. The design of a Mag was not used when designing the Mini.

[matteusz]

Thanks for the responses. I am noticing everything with the exception of the mil sim ats stuff is electro? Anything like a mechanical fusion out there? I think I would order one today if there were.

[snoopay700]

Right there. He also said that it copied the lvl 10 bolt somewhat. Again, Simon (Manike) has said time and time again that this is not true. The gun was designed independent of the Mag. The design of a Mag was not used when designing the Mini.
You couldn't be more off. Note right after what you made bold i mentioned a spool valve, does the mini have a spool valve? No, and just so you know i was refering to the freestyle, the reg that it has is akin to the classic valve's reg.

As for the level 10 thing, i didn't know that he didn't look to it for inspriation, and i'm not going to claim that he did (i was wrong to just say it was copied) but it acts the same as the level 10 does in slowing down the bolt, and that was my main point, i was just observing that it was like the level 10 in that aspect.

[warbeak2099]

You couldn't be more off. Note right after what you made bold i mentioned a spool valve, does the mini have a spool valve? No, and just so you know i was refering to the freestyle, the reg that it has is akin to the classic valve's reg.

Sorry, didn't know u were talkin bout the FS. You're right there, the FS is very similar to mags.

[snoopay700]

Sorry, didn't know u were talkin bout the FS. You're right there, the FS is very similar to mags.
Yeah, i've never actually looked at the insides of one but from the animation the freestyle reg looks like the classic valve one sort of.

[Ydna]

Invert Minis aren't blowforwards. They're two-stage poppet designs.

To be a blowforward you need to use the air that will be used to fire the ball, to move the bolt forward. The Mini uses a poppet to release air, independant of the bolt. The bolt does get pushed forward, but it doesn't get there by the air in the ball.

For most intensive purposes, a blowforward has to be a spooler. Automag, Freestyle, Ion, Proto Rail, etc. Anything with a poppet is most likely something else.