Assault Weapons Ban, It's Back

[PyRo]

Apparently it was only unsuccessful the first time because the bill didn't go far enough. Now it is sure to prevent gun related crime.





http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1022




110th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 1022

To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 13, 2007

Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL

To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007'.

SEC. 2. REINSTATEMENT FOR 10 YEARS OF REPEALED CRIMINAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO ASSAULT WEAPONS AND LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.

(a) Reinstatement of Provisions Wholly Repealed- Paragraphs (30) and (31) of section 921(a), subsections (v) and (w) and Appendix A of section 922, and the last 2 sentences of section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, as in effect just before the repeal made by section 110105(2) of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, are hereby enacted into law.

(b) Reinstatement of Provisions Partially Repealed- Section 924 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in subsection (a)(1), by striking subparagraph (B) and inserting the following:

`(B) knowingly violates subsection (a)(4), (f), (k), (r), (v), or (w) of section 922;'; and

(2) in subsection (c)(1)(B), by striking clause (i) and inserting the following:

`(i) is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; or'.

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

(a) In General- Section 921(a)(30) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended to read as follows:

`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:

`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;

`(ii) AR-10;

`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;

`(iv) AR70;

`(v) Calico Liberty;

`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;

`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;

`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;

`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;

`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;

`(xi) M1 Carbine;

`(xii) Saiga;

`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;

`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;

`(xv) SLG 95;

`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;

`(xvii) Steyr AUG;

`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;

`(xix) Tavor;

`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or

`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

`(B) The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Calico M-110;

`(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;

`(iii) Olympic Arms OA;

`(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or

`(v) Uzi.

`(C) The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) Armscor 30 BG;

`(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;

`(iii) Striker 12; or

`(iv) Streetsweeper.

`(D) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a pistol grip;

`(iv) a forward grip; or

`(v) a barrel shroud.

`(E)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), a semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

`(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--

`(i) a second pistol grip;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a barrel shroud; or

`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.

`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip;

`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.

`(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

`(J) A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).

`(K) A conversion kit.

`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

(b) Related Definitions- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(36) Barrel Shroud- The term `barrel shroud' means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not include an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or substantially encircle the barrel.

`(37) Conversion Kit- The term `conversion kit' means any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a firearm into a semiautomatic assault weapon, and any combination of parts from which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

`(38) Detachable Magazine- The term `detachable magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that can readily be inserted into a firearm.

`(39) Fixed Magazine- The term `fixed magazine' means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm.

`(40) Folding or Telescoping Stock- The term `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds, telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a firearm.

`(41) Forward Grip- The term `forward grip' means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.

`(42) Pistol Grip- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.

`(43) Threaded Barrel- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.

SEC. 4. GRANDFATHER PROVISION.

Section 922(v)(2) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--

(1) by inserting `(A)' after `(2)'; and

(2) by adding after and below the end the following:

`(B) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm the possession or transfer of which would (but for this subparagraph) be unlawful by reason of this subsection, and which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.'.

SEC. 5. REPEAL OF CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS.

Section 922(v)(3) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `(3)' and all that follows through the 1st sentence and inserting the following:

`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm that--

`(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, level, or slide action;

`(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or

`(C) is an antique firearm.'.

SEC. 6. REQUIRING BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR THE TRANSFER OF LAWFULLY POSSESSED SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS.

Section 922(v) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(5) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer a semiautomatic assault weapon to which paragraph (1) does not apply, except through--

`(A) a licensed dealer, and for purposes of subsection (t) in the case of such a transfer, the weapon shall be considered to be transferred from the business inventory of the licensed dealer and the dealer shall be considered to be the transferor; or

`(B) a State or local law enforcement agency if the transfer is made in accordance with the procedures provided for in subsection (t) of this section and section 923(g).

`(6) The Attorney General shall establish and maintain, in a timely manner, a record of the make, model, and date of manufacture of any semiautomatic assault weapon which the Attorney General is made aware has been used in relation to a crime under Federal or State law, and the nature and circumstances of the crime involved, including the outcome of relevant criminal investigations and proceedings. The Attorney General shall annually submit the record to the Congress and make the record available to the general public.'.

SEC. 7. STRENGTHENING THE BAN ON THE POSSESSION OR TRANSFER OF A LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.

(a) Ban on Transfer of Semiautomatic Assault Weapon With Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after subsection (y) the following:

`(z) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer any assault weapon with a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(8) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(z) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.'.

(b) Certification Requirement-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922(w) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--

(A) in paragraph (3)--

(i) by adding `or' at the end of subparagraph (B); and

(ii) by striking subparagraph (C) and redesignating subparagraph (D) as subparagraph (C); and

(B) by striking paragraph (4) and inserting the following:

`(4) It shall be unlawful for a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer who transfers a large capacity ammunition feeding device that was manufactured on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection, to fail to certify to the Attorney General before the end of the 60-day period that begins with the date of the transfer, in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, that the device was manufactured on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.'.

(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title, as amended by subsection (a)(2) of this section, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(9) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(w)(4) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.'.

SEC. 8. UNLAWFUL WEAPONS TRANSFERS TO JUVENILES.

Section 922(x) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)--

(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and

(B) by adding at the end the following:

`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or

`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'; and

(2) in paragraph (2)--

(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and

(B) by adding at the end the following:

`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or

`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

SEC. 9. BAN ON IMPORTATION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.

(a) In General- Section 922(w) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1), by striking `(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2)' and inserting `(1)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B)';

(2) in paragraph (2), by striking `(2) Paragraph (1)' and inserting `(B) Subparagraph (A)'; and

(3) by inserting before paragraph (3) the following:

`(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to import or bring into the United States a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

(b) Conforming Amendment- Section 921(a)(31)(A) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994'.

[PyRo]

Perhaps the worst part of this:

"`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'."

Basically the Attorney General would have the power to ban any firearm he saw fit.

[BigEvil]

Keep voting democtrat......


Even bad republicans are better than all democrat..

[Steelrat]

The woman has a poor history with bills, with most of hers never making it out of committee. Also, the bill doesn't have a co-sponsor yet. But with a democratic congress, its only a matter of time.

[PyRo]

The woman has a poor history with bills, with most of hers never making it out of committee. Also, the bill doesn't have a co-sponsor yet. But with a democratic congress, its only a matter of time.
Well people have said that should the bill make it to the floor they will vote for it. The bill being so overly restrictive is probably the best thing going for us. Anyone who votes for it will forever be labeled a left wing nut job. I doubt any republican will touch it, and I don't think any moderate democrat will either. I don't doubt however that they will try probably sucessfully to push through some sort of "assault weapons" ban. How bad it is going to be depends on what president they do it under.

[spwz99]

What I want to know is this: How many legally obtained assault rifles were used to commit a violent crime?

When will lawmakers realize that passing gun laws does not affect criminals, it only affects those of us who already choose to obey the law. :tard:

/rant

[bleachit]

"`(xi) M1 Carbine;"


lol

no really, LOL

[PyRo]

"`(xi) M1 Carbine;"


Steyr AUG
Don't those start around 2k for a used one? Not very practical for the criminally minded.

[bleachit]

"assault weapons ban", not very practical at all.

[Recon by Fire]

So let me see if I have this straight: Basically anything that is not a fixed stock, is semi-automatic, has a detachable magazine or holds 10 rounds will be a "no-no". Oh excuse me, tubular magazines that are .22 may hold any amount...ooohh, thank you your royal politicians for allowing us serfs the use of .22's!


I strongly believe we will see this bill come to pass. The question is how long will it be? They have the numbers to push this bill through. So we could see the effects of such a bill for likely 8-10 years? :(

Guess I will have to put a few things on my shopping lists:

Beretta Xtrema2 (semi-auto shotgun)
Saiga 12 (AK semi-auto shotgun)
AR (probably just a basic platform RR build)
.45 ACP high-cap pistol of some type (Glock, XD, etc...)

I already had a Springfield 1911A1 MC Operator (not to be confused with MC Hammer!) on my shopping list, but it looks like that would survive the new AWB anyway. My wife already stated "I guess I will be seeing some new guns arriving?" but added that's fine as long as I get a safe also (and get her something nice too!).



:mad:

[Steelrat]

Hell, there are still states that have to deal with the AWB. It's pretty clear that we will see another AWB in the future, time to stock up now. I already have about 70 AR mags stockpiled :shooting:

[djslik]

California still has to deal with the ban but, but we can still get our hands on an M1 come on are they serious if you are going to lug a freakin M1 around to do some crime more power to you those things aren't light or small. I have a yugo sks because of the collectors value so I'm pretty worried about this new law. It seems a little too constrictive though even for California, most people that commit big crimes here can get a hold of any gun they need and for the most part the ban does nothing to stop or hinder them and I know that from personal experience. I guess I should get my pistol grip shotgun for home protection before this bill comes to pass and maybe a desert eagle before those go away as well.

[skife]

in the land of the free, you can't have them because the government says NO!


i guess "free" is a reletive term.

[kosmo]

Friggen sweet! It wont be long before my giant tuff bin full of 30 round ar mags is worth something again!

[MagMan5446]

What do you think folks from these parts are doin with these guns? Collecting them? yeah right all of richmond and oaktown are collectors huh? Gun control isn't always bad and though we can always get our hands on just about anything, it's mostly just to send folks to prison, I think. Man I can go buy a grenade for like 100$...

few bad folks ruin it for everybody. actually lots and lots of bad folks.

where you from in the yay djslik?

[MANN]

Keep voting democtrat......


Even bad republicans are better than all democrat..

:rofl: :rofl:

so true so true. Glad to see your on the good guys side :cheers:

[BigEvil]

:rofl: :rofl:

so true so true. Glad to see your on the good guys side :cheers:


Evil on the outside.. soft chewie goodness on the inside.... :)

[Lenny]

Keep voting democtrat......


Even bad republicans are better than all democrat..
QFT. BigEvil FTW

[djslik]

San Jose what about you?

[MagMan5446]

vallejo what up man you like that mac dre?

[djslik]

Haha.......yeeeeeeeeeeeea....now I don't want to Hijack this thread so hit me up with a PM.

[Pneumagger]

RFTW :shooting:

/you can guess what the R is for.

Also, if i want an assualt rifle, I'll go find one - no big deal. Since when has the government been effectively capable of stopping somebody from doing something they really want to anyways.

[kosmo]

RFTW :shooting:

/you can guess what the R is for.


Uh, no. They lost. The house AND the senate.

[Ole Unka Phil]

I been warning you for a couple of months now.

Tragicaly the myth that keeps being portrayed in these whole things is that these do not have "Sporting purposes". Which indeed they do, but thats not the point. The Second Amendment does not protect Sporting. Thats not its purpose. The hope here by the proponents of this ban is that people will assume that the only real reason to have a gun is to Hunt. Which is in fact, not a right. It is a priveladge. The Second amendment is about owning a gun to protect yourself from others and against tyranny. Which these people wish to remove.

[Ole Unka Phil]

And now the counter punch!!!!!!

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1096

[PyRo]

And now the counter punch!!!!!!

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1096
I was hoping they were going to try and declare the NY assault weapons ban and CCW laws unconstitutional.
Anyone want to take bets on how quickly this bill gets shot down?

[PyRo]

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa092699.htm

Interesting link. Does a good job showing how gun laws widdle away the second amendment a little at a time.


My favorite.
1837
Georgia passes a law banning handguns. The law is ruled unconstitutional and thrown out.
1977
The District of Columbia enacts an anti-handgun law which also requires registration of all rifles and shotguns within the District of Columbia.

[calebh]

umm, anyone else notice theres a clause in HR1096 that would repeal the child lock safety act of 2005? not really up to date on gun laws, but that sounds a little bit re :tard: ed

[PyRo]

umm, anyone else notice theres a clause in HR1096 that would repeal the child lock safety act of 2005? not really up to date on gun laws, but that sounds a little bit re :tard: ed
It requires a safety lock to be included with every handgun purchased. It's a well meaning but useless law. Those locks are only a few dollars, if someone is going to use one they would just buy one. Giving them away isn't really going to encourage people in using them.

[FARMER00]

im a gun lover myself but i dont think anyone really needs a assault rifle, like were you americans actually allowed to hunt with them down there?

[nippinout]

im a gun lover myself but i dont think anyone really needs a assault rifle, like were you americans actually allowed to hunt with them down there?

Assault rifle is a misnomer.

Your everyday AR-15 is not capable of any mode of fire beyond semi-automatic.

The 5.56 is very popular for varmint hunting and competition shooting. The AR-15 and its variants are just 'scary' looking. The original assault weapons ban was entirely superficial. It did not restrict sales based upon anything but aesthetics. If it looked 'scary,' it got banned.

When the ban finally sunset, the streets were running with the blood of innocent children, right?

[PumpPlayer]

I like the pistols section where they ban all front-loaders with no exceptions.

FWIW, well over 50% of the "world-class" sporting pistols in use in various ISSF and Olympic disciplines are front-loaders. They only hold 5 rounds of .22 or .32 ammo but holy crap it's a front-loader!

[PyRo]

im a gun lover myself but i dont think anyone really needs a assault rifle, like were you americans actually allowed to hunt with them down there?
It's not a matter of needing it. We have a right to own them. The previous ban was pointless. It banned bayonet lugs for gods sake. Who has ever committed a crime in the US with a bayonet affixed to their weapon?



Oh, and what about competition shooting...

[Army]

im a gun lover myself but i dont think anyone really needs a assault rifle, like were you americans actually allowed to hunt with them down there?
AR15's launch a .224" diameter bullet. The Remington M700 bolt action hunting rifle can also launch a .224" diameter bullet. Can any rabbit actually tell the difference upon impact?

The launch platform makes no difference to the function of the bullet, nor the intention of the shooter.

Using your analogy: I like to swim, but nobody needs a swimming pool in the backyard to cool off. After all, many hundreds more children die in America from drowning, than accidental gunshots.

BTW, the firearms banned, are used in less than 10% of 1% of all firearms related crime in America.......................some crisis, huh?

[cyrus-the-virus]

No no one needs a "assult rifle", but then again no one needs a repeaster anyhow, I'm waiting for the man to ban any weapon the holds more than one cartrage.

If someone wanted a automatic rifle, they would get one. If you can poke your nose into the drug industry you can find someone with illeagle weapons.

[wjr]

Edit: I'm sorry. I didn't read the posts before me...




Why is it that so many supporters of this kind of gun control do no one take fifteen minutes to educate themselves that the perpetrated assault weapons they want banned are semi-automatic, not automatic.

In my post I really didn't take one side or the other. I just didn't know that people hunted with what I though was a fully automatic weapon, and I didn't understand Armies analogy. That was all.

I really haven't taken one side or the other in the gun control debate. I can see where both sides are coming from.

[Army]

Umm... you mean to say that you shoot bunnies with an automatic assault weapon?

I'll admit that I don't know much about gun laws, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

And, does anyone else see something wrong with that analogy? I'm not so much following your train of thought there.
Obviously, you are not paying attention.

The AWB is ignorantly, yet purposely misnamed to get the most impact from people that know no better. An assault weapon MUST have the capability to fire, on demand, a small or medium power munition at fully automatic mode. Fully automatic means the weapon will continue to fire as long as the trigger is held back, or the feeding device holds ammunition.

The AWB does NOT control or address ANY actual "assault weapons".

The AWB does NOTHING about crime. It only stops LAW ABIDING CITIZENS from enjoying and exercising their Constitutional rights. Criminals, by their very nature, have no compunction to follow any law, which leaves the AWB to ONLY affect you and me. The USSC ruled back in the 60's (State vs Hayes), that felons are under no obligation to register any firearm they possess....because they are, by law, not allowed to possess any firearms. That would, ironically, violate their 5th Amendment right to not self incriminate.

Are you seeing the light yet?

Full auto weapons (REAL machine guns and assault weapons) have been regulated since 1934, requiring the application and payment of a tax to own or possess a FA weapon. FA weapons can easily run from the low $10,000, to well above a few million dollars to own....weapon of choice of criminals? Not hardly. Yes, normal law abiding US citizens can own and possess full auto weapons. The crime rate with legal FA weaponry? Two actual crimes, and two crimes committed by a FA owner, but no indication of any weapons used. If you are counting, that's only 4 since 1934, with many thousands of FA owners and weapons.

The swimming pool analogy shows that swimming pools are almost 10 times more dangerous than guns for children under 14 (CDC figures)...yet there is no legislation or outcry to stop their deadly use by anyone, even criminals.

I hunt with my AR15's. As an avid varmint shooter, I have built all my rifles as varmint guns. My AR's are no different is use or application. The bullet does not care where it came from, and the ground squirrels are too stupid to notice.

Hunting is the art form, not the implements used.

[PyRo]

Umm... you mean to say that you shoot bunnies with an automatic assault weapon?

I'll admit that I don't know much about gun laws, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

And, does anyone else see something wrong with that analogy? I'm not so much following your train of thought there.
Why is it that so many supporters of this kind of gun control do no one take fifteen minutes to educate themselves that the perpetrated assault weapons they want banned are semi-automatic, not automatic.

We need to start having a gun week in schools. Start with kindergarten educate them about guns and basic handling and safety. First or second grade take a class trip to a range and let them shoot some .22 short rounds from some single shot rifles. I bet that would save more lives by creating responsible educated gun owners then gun control ever has.

[CoolHand]

The one thing that baffles me most (and the one which I sinkingly suspect will be our undoing) is how so many people ask the question "Why do you NEED to do X?" when told that the federal government intends to ban "X" activity.

The point is not that you need to do it. The point is that you have a right to do so if you choose. The rights granted to us in the constitution are not conditional upon demonstration of a NEED. They exist and we may exercise them or not, at our own discretion. End of story.

If you people (speaking to those who rationalize the taking of freedoms) do nothing at all while the people in power slowly whittle away at your ability to do anything at all without first asking them permission to do so, you will wake up one day and suddenly realize that you simply have NO freedoms left.

Remember one simple thing and you will do well when dealing with any government - The government does NOT have your best interest in mind. It serves only one master: Itself.

[CRog075]

So when do they vote on this bill, or has it been voted on?

I was about to buy a Bushmaster XM-15 in about a month.

[PyRo]

So when do they vote on this bill, or has it been voted on?

I was about to buy a Bushmaster XM-15 in about a month.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1022

It won't go through. The democrats know that passing that will cost them congress just like it did last time. Expect something much less restrictive to go through though. Then something else and so on until they slowly implement this bill over a ten to twenty year time frame.

[Recon by Fire]

No no one needs a "assult rifle"


Just what is an assault weapon? To many people think of fully automatic weapons when this term is used, those are not the weapons being banned here.

Good thing we have the Home Shopping Network:

HSN AK-47 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FiGQ8LGpMs)

[Mind'sEye]

I bought an MAK90 in 1992 before they went on the federal ban list. I've had to register it with California DOJ in compliance with the CA "assault weapons" ban regulations. I don't really need it or the six 30rd magazines and 75rd drum either. Over the years I've taken this beast into our local national forest many times (with a 5rd magazine) and fired it in a designated target shooting area. It has provided me with many hours of pleasure along with my Dan Wesson .357 and my Colt Anaconda .44 magnum. I am not doing any harm to anyone so I don't feel the need to justify my enjoyment. I'm not interested in being noble, "socially conscious" or politically correct every minute of my otherwise thoroughly middle class life. I just happen to enjoy blasting away at targets and tin cans with loud guns. :)

[PyRo]

Click here for Gun Grabbing Poll (http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/PageServer?pagename=SRV_2007GeneralLegislativePrio ritiesSurvey)

I'm sure most of you know about the Brady's and their Assault Weapons ban and other rabid gun hating legislation.

This is a quick 5 question poll.

Spread the link around, and help screw with their data. (Not that they pay attention to data anyway)

But why make anything easy for the bastards?

[cyrus-the-virus]

I been warning you for a couple of months now.

Tragicaly the myth that keeps being portrayed in these whole things is that these do not have "Sporting purposes". Which indeed they do, but thats not the point. The Second Amendment does not protect Sporting. Thats not its purpose. The hope here by the proponents of this ban is that people will assume that the only real reason to have a gun is to Hunt. Which is in fact, not a right. It is a priveladge. The Second amendment is about owning a gun to protect yourself from others and against tyranny. Which these people wish to remove.

They don't wan us "little people" to be able to defend ourselfs when the chinese invade.

[spwz99]

Click here for Gun Grabbing Poll (http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/PageServer?pagename=SRV_2007GeneralLegislativePrio ritiesSurvey)

I'm sure most of you know about the Brady's and their Assault Weapons ban and other rabid gun hating legislation.

This is a quick 5 question poll.

Spread the link around, and help screw with their data. (Not that they pay attention to data anyway)

But why make anything easy for the bastards?

In the poll it says "there has been a significant increase in violent crime and homicide since the AWB expired." I want to see numbers that prove to me violence has increased proportionally more than any other year, regardless of the AWB being in place or not.

[cyrus-the-virus]

In the poll it says "there has been a significant increase in violent crime and homicide since the AWB expired." I want to see numbers that prove to me violence has increased proportionally more than any other year, regardless of the AWB being in place or not.
I voted :D

[Buff]

im a gun lover myself but i dont think anyone really needs a assault rifle, like were you americans actually allowed to hunt with them down there?

nobody needs sports cars, nice houses, nice paintball guns or computers either

[calebh]

It requires a safety lock to be included with every handgun purchased. It's a well meaning but useless law. Those locks are only a few dollars, if someone is going to use one they would just buy one. Giving them away isn't really going to encourage people in using them.
gotcha

[Target Practice]

Hahahaha, yeah, they can go ahead and kiss my ***.

Edit: We can't say ***? That's a load of crap. Ahwell.

[Recon by Fire]

Went to a gun show today and picked up my compulsory AWB ban purchase!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/CX-4%20Storm/DSCF0106.jpg
LOL, not quite assault weapon but still would be banned since it has a detachable magazine!

The dreaded, fearsome Ruger 10/22 in .22 Long Rifle rim fire! Oh teh noes!
What can I say, I didn't have one and they are nifty plinkers.

[PyRo]

Went to a gun show today and picked up my compulsory AWB ban purchase!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/CX-4%20Storm/DSCF0106.jpg
LOL, not quite assault weapon but still would be banned since it has a detachable magazine!

The dreaded, fearsome Ruger 10/22 in .22 Long Rifle rim fire! Oh teh noes!
What can I say, I didn't have one and they are nifty plinkers.
Is that semi-automatic?
Why do you need that other then to shoot people?

[CoolHand]

Is that semi-automatic?
Why do you need that other then to shoot people?

Because SOMEONE MUST stop the tin cans when they invade.

I cannot hold the line on my own people, you need to gear up and get out here.

I just saw a Pepsi truck cresting the road two hills over, that's at least 100 cases maybe more.

This is not a drill people, repeat, NOT a drill!

Remember, the only good soda can, is a perforated soda can. :ninja:

[Recon by Fire]

Yep, I am ready to defend my country from aluminum cans, both foreign and domestic :shooting:

Yes, the Ruger 10/22 is semi-automatic and the impressive rim-fire .22 long rifle cartridge! Shoot someone? :rofl: Only if you want to catch there attention or piss them off!

[PyRo]

Yep, I am ready to defend my country from aluminum cans, both foreign and domestic :shooting:

Yes, the Ruger 10/22 is semi-automatic and the impressive rim-fire .22 long rifle cartridge! Shoot someone? :rofl: Only if you want to catch there attention or piss them off!
My grandfather got a medal for defending the country from enemy coke machines while he was in the air force. This has apparently been an ongoing problem for a long time and it's time to do something about it.

I can't remember the story exactly. He was set over to check out a building I can't remember why. But he went in, couldn't get the lights on and kept hearing someone banging around in the back. He ordered them to stop and identify themselves a couple times and they refused. He fired a few rounds in that direction and the noise stopped. More guys showed up after the shots and they got the light on to learn he had taken out a coke machine. He got yelled at and they made him pay for the three rounds or so of ammunition he used but other than that they let it go. Anyway a few days later they had a little ceremony for him and presented him with a medal for defending the country from enemy coke machines.

[Ole Unka Phil]

I find it somewhat amusing... however also disturbing... that we has slowly repeated the concept that all weapons have to have a "sporting purpose" to be of any reasonble need. When in fact the Constitution nor the bill of rights nor any of the Federalist papers nor any constitutional deliberations were ever about "hunting or sporting". For some reason people forget that "hunting" is now a privelage and not a right. The RIGHT is about owning firearms for Defense. Both personal and constitutional defense. The use of them in Sporting purposes is secondary to the entire logic for owning them.

So when we hear these bans being proposed then we always hear the term "no sporting purpose" used to defend the action. When in fact its just not the real purpose of the gun anyway. However politicaly inncorrect they may think it is to say "I own this gun in order to keep my government in check and to protect my family from the criminals and marauding hordes after a natural disaster" it is the very truth. And should need no appology. It needs to explanation. It should need no defense to try and then define it as having a "Sporting purpose also".

However they all do. A AR15 makes a fine Varmit Rifle. And it makes a pretty decent Deer rifle too for our small Southern Deer with the right ammo and within the normal 100 yards. Many a one shot stop occurs with it. And an AK 47 make an even better Deer rifle. Its close to a 30 Caliber. They both make excellent target shooting rifles. And that alone is a sport. They both CAN be limited to 5 rounds whenever need be to satisfy local hunting regulations. They all can LOOK like "hunting rifles" (if you want to go by looks) with the simple switch out to wood stocks with checkering. It makes none of them any less deadly if used for defense. But then again... that SHOULD Be thier primary purpose and the rest is all recreational.

Lets get it out of our heads that something that these people are arguing has no sporting purpose immediately gives it some sort of evil nature. And that self defense and constitutional defense is not enough reason to own one. Because... it is. It does NOT have to have a sporting purpose. And the sooner that all Hunters (like most of us) realize that the better off we all are. Because if we keep trying to defend that line we are going to lose the basic right. And that is the basic right to keep and bear arms. Our hunting and target shooting sports are NOT the reason for the Constitutional second ammendment. They exist only as a side advantage from that.

there is a bill now introduced to remove all reference to the terms "Sporting Purposes" in all gun laws. Which is as it should be. To consider them different devides us as gun owners and then once devided we will be over run. This is the plan.

Crime has decreased signifcantly since the sunset of the first AWB. Simple fact is that it is about to go back up as many of the hard core criminals convicted in the 80's under much reduced sentencing laws are about to get out. And these are some really bad dudes and they coming up and out of prison every day now. They are about to be lose on the streets. And they could care less about gun laws.

Also... there are so few of these "Assault Weapons" used in crimes its all laughable. They are not the prefered tool of a crimial.

A semi automatic is a semi automatic the whole world round. The gun itself has no intent. It cannot commit an assault. The person behind the gun can. Wether it be with a single shot 20 gauge shotgun or a AK.

[bleachit]

I do not NEED any gun, then again who "needs" the freedom of speech? religion? to peacefully assemble? The freedom from unreasonable search and seizures? the list goes on. No one "needs" any of the rights guaranteed to us by the Constitution and its amendments. the "need" for them in irrelevant. the Right to have them is.

[Ole Unka Phil]

The first amendment is freedom of speech and assembly

The second amendment is there to garantee you get the first one.... and all that come after it! Mutsa been important to be second right?

[bleachit]

The first amendment is freedom of speech and assembly

The second amendment is there to garantee you get the first one.... and all that come after it! Mutsa been important to be second right?


QFT

[PyRo]

Doesn't everyone know the first amendment only covers muzzle loading weapons since that's all they had back then? Unless you live in NJ, then you can't even have those without a permit.

[bleachit]

the first amendment, to my knowledge, covers NO weapons at all. Unless you consider the media's ability to change the mind of the masses a weapon...

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

I must say that I feel totally normal around you guys. Can't say that for other websites.

My - NJ Legal for now - stash (I hope I piss off a Dem with this - lol)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/HOMELANDEFENDER/2003_0331TedsBigAdventure0003.jpg

HLD...

[Ole Unka Phil]

Doesn't everyone know the SECOND amendment only covers muzzle loading weapons since that's all they had back then? Unless you live in NJ, then you can't even have those without a permit.


:D

I tell ya what. If the Criminals and Militant extremest will confine themselves to Sticks and Rocks I will too.... but until that time... I am armed to the teeth! :wow:

[CoolHand]

:D

I tell ya what. If the Criminals and Militant extremest will confine themselves to Sticks and Rocks I will too.... but until that time... I am armed to the teeth! :wow:

Yah.

I'm not even sure that getting it in writing would help much.

;)

[BigEvil]

Better get your .50 cals while you can.. theyre coming!!

[Ole Unka Phil]

This man fully supports an American Assault Weapons ban...

http://around-world.net/ASIA/PK/PK93.jpg


Go ahead and make his day.

[Recon by Fire]

Oh teh noes! It's an assault weapon!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/doublenot7/CX-4%20Storm/DSCF0109.jpg


Ready for soda cans and varmints! :cheers:

[PyRo]

Oh teh noes! It's an assault weapon!

Now it's a sniper rifle you must be planning to assassinate somebody. We need to ban sniper rifles and put people like you in jail!

[Ole Unka Phil]

watch this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2312508445846864220&q=bull****)


Caution: some bad language in it.

[CoolHand]

Yup, gotta love Penn & Teller.

When that show first came out (the series not that one in particular), I assumed they'd be a couple of Micheal Moore knockoffs. Boy was I wrong. I've watched nearly all of them now, and I can't say I've seen one yet where I was left with the taste of propaganda in my mouth.

They don't always fall on the same side of the issue that I do, but they certainly do present themselves in a concise and logical manner, while using swear words in exactly the same way I would have. :ninja:

It's refreshing to see free thought come out of Hollywood from time to time, it happens seldom enough to be a rare thing indeed.

[Mind'sEye]

Great show! However, the American people have long since been deprived of the firepower necessary to provide resistance against an all out U.S. Military assault. We're going to have to rely on the military's committment to the defend the Constitution from here on in. The tyranny we face today comes from certain lawmakers, courts and elements in the Media. They've started the onslaught with anti-gun laws, court rulings which favor the "victims", and tons of mis-information as part of their much larger agenda for radical social change. We face an enemy that we are forbbiden to take arms against. We need the Penn and Tellers of this nation to speak up and shoot back.

[PyRo]

Great show! However, the American people have long since been deprived of the firepower necessary to provide resistance against an all out U.S. Military assault. We're going to have to rely on the military's committment to the defend the Constitution from here on in. The tyranny we face today comes from certain lawmakers, courts and elements in the Media. They've started the onslaught with anti-gun laws, court rulings which favor the "victims", and tons of mis-information as part of their much larger agenda for radical social change. We face an enemy that we are forbbiden to take arms against. We need the Penn and Tellers of this nation to speak up and shoot back.
Look at Iraq and what just a few insurgents can do to the US military. If millions of people in the United States took up arms you would be surprised what they could do. Especially if part of the military sided with them and they procured planes, missiles, etc.

[Mind'sEye]

Look at Iraq and what just a few insurgents can do to the US military. If millions of people in the United States took up arms you would be surprised what they could do. Especially if part of the military sided with them and they procured planes, missiles, etc.

Maybe. I don't know. Who would supply us with the real problematic stuff like hand held SAMs, RPG's and heavier automatic weapons that are coming into Iraq from outside sources? Canada? In terms of the 2nd Amendment guarantees expressed in the Penn and Teller show, I think an armed uprising by "the people" is impractical. At the rate we're going, our freedom to bear arms will continue erode before it gets to that point.

[PyRo]

Maybe. I don't know. Who would supply us with the real problematic stuff like hand held SAMs, RPG's and heavier automatic weapons that are coming into Iraq from outside sources? Canada? In terms of the 2nd Amendment guarantees expressed in the Penn and Teller show, I think an armed uprising by "the people" is impractical. At the rate we're going, our freedom to bear arms will continue erode before it gets to that point.

Many of the "assault rifles" they're trying to ban now are better weapons then the Iraqis have. Heavier automatic weapons are in the hands of citizens, you can get a license and buy them, and their are thousands people own illegally. I bet we would all be surprised what would come out of the woodwork. Heavier weapons, missiles, even tanks and planes could come from defecting military or be captured.
Planes, tanks, etc loose a lose a lot of their superiority in an urban warfare environment especially when fighting in your own cities.

[Rooster]

The second amendment has nothing to do with sport shooting, its so we have the power to overthrow a corrupt government. That's why the democrats hate guns. They don't want individuals to have power over their government. They want the government to have power over its citizens.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

The second amendment has nothing to do with sport shooting, its so we have the power to overthrow a corrupt government. That's why the democrats hate guns. They don't want individuals to have power over their government. They want the government to have power over its citizens.

You know, somehow I really do not believe that every anti-gun Democrat is thinking "Uh oh! They might attack me with their guns! I bet a few million people are going to jump up and start shooting for no reason. Oh noes! Let's ban the weapons..."

No politician is truly in fear of an armed American revolt against the government. They have other, much more overt, reasons.

[CoolHand]

You know, somehow I really do not believe that every anti-gun Democrat is thinking "Uh oh! They might attack me with their guns! I bet a few million people are going to jump up and start shooting for no reason. Oh noes! Let's ban the weapons..."

No politician is truly in fear of an armed American revolt against the government. They have other, much more overt, reasons.

Which are?

:ninja:

[wjr]

You know, somehow I really do not believe that every anti-gun Democrat is thinking "Uh oh! They might attack me with their guns! I bet a few million people are going to jump up and start shooting for no reason. Oh noes! Let's ban the weapons..."

Wrong. That's exactly what I'm thinking. I live in consant fear of people with guns. And every year I attend the evil communist democrat convention and we talk about how we plan on controlling the people by taking away their guns.

[CoolHand]

Wrong. That's exactly what I'm thinking. I live in consant fear of people with guns. And every year I attend the evil communist democrat convention and we talk about how we plan on controlling the people by taking away their guns.

AH HA!

I frikin' KNEW it!

[nippinout]

Guess who just bought a new AR lower. :ninja:

:shooting: :headbang:

[MagMan5446]

(I hope I piss off a Dem with this - lol)


oh HAHA oh man those STUPID DEMS hahahahahahaha you're so funny HOMELAND DEFENDER. KEEP DEFENDING!!

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

oh HAHA oh man those STUPID DEMS hahahahahahaha you're so funny HOMELAND DEFENDER. KEEP DEFENDING!!

I guess it worked. :rolleyes:

HLD...

[Ole Unka Phil]

Guess who just bought a new AR lower. :ninja:

:shooting: :headbang:

I am dissapointed... they are cheaper by the dozen! :D

[bornl33t]

I am dissapointed... they are cheaper by the dozen! :D

Ya know, I wonder if we could set up a group buy through AO? <-- I'm being totally serious...

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

Ya know, I wonder if we could set up a group buy through AO? <-- I'm being totally serious...

I'm in as long as its one of these...

http://www.pof-usa.com/lower_receiver/lowerreceiver.htm I'll take one in the milspec version. :cool:

HLD...

[bornl33t]

I'm in as long as its one of these...

http://www.pof-usa.com/lower_receiver/lowerreceiver.htm I'll take one in the milspec version. :cool:

HLD...

Why that one? Educate me! I don't really care right now but want to know what justifies the price?

[PyRo]

Anyone remember the receiver with the skull and crossbones and Parley, Plunder, and Arrrrrrrr for safe, semi, full?
I'll get in on that if someone wants to get em made :)

[nippinout]

Anyone remember the receiver with the skull and crossbones and Parley, Plunder, and Arrrrrrrr for safe, semi, full?
I'll get in on that if someone wants to get em made :)

That was Tom Sawyer Mfg. Their engraving business was bought up by Orion Arms, but still in the Twin Cities. I emailed them on prices, but no return yet. Orion Arms (http://www.orion-arms.com/)

[HOMELANDEFENDER]

Why that one? Educate me! I don't really care right now but want to know what justifies the price?

Pricey because its machined from a single billet. Their design very strong and "overbuilt" . But it does have nice features such as a flared mag well for speed loading, and an integral machined trigger guard if preferred. Better than the standard fare? Performance wise - probably not. But if you like a higher quality build, then its the way to go. You probably won't see a guy pull up at the range with one, so exclusivity may be worth more to some. I like the very clean and precise CNC cuts that went into it. I usually keep my rigs, I never sell. So something like this for me would be on my list for an "Ultimate" style build up. I'd match this up to a billet upper from LaRue with a nice mid weight fluted 20" SS barrel. But thats down the road for me. :cool:

HLD...

[bornl33t]

Pricey because its machined from a single billet. Their design very strong and "overbuilt" . But it does have nice features such as a flared mag well for speed loading, and an integral machined trigger guard if preferred. Better than the standard fare? Performance wise - probably not. But if you like a higher quality build, then its the way to go. You probably won't see a guy pull up at the range with one, so exclusivity may be worth more to some. I like the very clean and precise CNC cuts that went into it. I usually keep my rigs, I never sell. So something like this for me would be on my list for an "Ultimate" style build up. I'd match this up to a billet upper from LaRue with a nice mid weight fluted 20" SS barrel. But thats down the road for me. :cool:

HLD...

I'd be up for one I suppose. The next problem is how are we going to get these all over the US without a FFL? We probably won't save much if we have to pay for shipping twice and 2 ffl dealers PER receiver. Any sugjestions?

[CoolHand]

I just applied for an FFL . . . .

:ninja:

[Ole Unka Phil]

01 or 07?

[Ole Unka Phil]

Ya know, I wonder if we could set up a group buy through AO? <-- I'm being totally serious...

Perhaps you could get someone to do us a batch of AR lower receivers with AO logo? :D

[CoolHand]

01 or 07?

01

Been wanting to get into gunsmithing.

Retail sales will be nice as well, to help fuel my various and sundry hobbies (all of which seem to have a ravenous appetite for currency).

[Ole Unka Phil]

Sweet. Let me know when you get it. I might send some work your way.