Teach me Diesel...

[marctheshark0404]

If anyone could give me Pros/Cons of diesel that would be great! Im thinking about buying an older diesel truck, but dont know much about them. I've got around $3500 to spend. Thanks!

[billybob_81067]

Pick up either an old 12v Cummins in an early 90's dodge or a 6.9L diesel in the mid 80's fords... they're both basically bulletproof. You may have a hard time finding an older cummins though because the 12v ones are popular for swapping. They're actually a better engine than the newer ones. The 6.9 won't be as much of a powerhouse as the cummins, but then it's not turboed either. Plenty of folks have slapped a turbo on them and really woke them up that way.

The 7.3 pre-powerstroke is also a good engine, but you need to make sure the previous owner maintained the SCA levels in the coolant or else the block may have suffered from cavitation leaving pinholes in the cylinder walls.

The 6.9 didn't have this problem because the cylinder walls were thicker (a 7.3 is a bored out 6.9).

You may be able to pick up an early powerstroke or 94 and up body style dodge for that price, but it'd probably have to be pretty beat up body wise.

I'd stay as far away as possible from the chevy 350 diesel. It's basically a 350 chevy gasser engine with an injection pump and diesel heads... Just not built heavy enough to be a diesel block. I have heard that the newer chevy diesel (6.2L I think) was an alright engine. not a powerhouse by any means, but quite reliable and good enough to get the job done.

I've got an old 85 F-250 with the 6.9 diesel in it that I got for free, and I've got it running, but haven't had a whole lot of time to mess with it. It had been sitting for years and my father in law bought it just for the pickup bed to replace the bed on his pickup. Paid a whole $200 for it and took the bed off and then gave the rest to me. The starter was completely shot. A new starter later, some fresh diesel with a couple quarts of ATF added in for some additional injector pump lubrication and a couple huffs of ether and it fired right up and ran like a top. I've probably only put 10 miles on it since then mainly because I never finished fixing it up like I wanted to and it's been sitting in our shop for the past two years.

Now I've got a 6x6 that needs an engine, transmission, and cab and an 85 F-250 with a good engine, and transmission and a decent cab so I'm thinking I'll combine the two. ;)

[billybob_81067]

Oh and pros to diesels are that they generally have better pulling power, get better fuel mileage when compared to a similair powered gas engine, usually less maintainence on a diesel and they're built more durable for longer service life.

The only cons I can think of is that they're harder to start in the winter time so you've got to keep your glow plug system / heater grid system up to par and possibly plug in the block heater on real cold nights, and the fact that diesel now costs more than gasoline (which is utterly retarded).

[Lohman446]

Unless you are doing heavy towing pretty consistantly, or long mileage running do not buy a diesel truck. They are FAR overrated for everyday driving. Besides, I would be somewhat apprehensive about any $3500 diesel. Avoid the old Chevy diesels like the plague.

[maxama10]

Go to a parts yard find a nice detroit fix it and drop it into your pickup of choice... :D
Could always try a nice Cat engine...:]

Heh, my shop teacher just dropped a 4cyl detroit into his Ford F250 had to cut out a section of the firewall and do a whole bunch of other things I wouldnt be able to do.

/Detroit sounds awsome!
//doesnt know a whole lot about diesal
///knows diesal uses compession and glow plugs to ignite fuel/air combo
////do all diesals use an airbox at the bottom instead of air intake valves?

[skife]

things to know about diesel's :D

"it aint smokin, its broken"

they smell funny.

they make lots of noise and dont do much.

[marctheshark0404]

Ok, thanks for all the help guys. Looks like my car confusion just grew! Although, now im not looking at diesels that much, ive looked at just about everything! Jeeps, imports, diesels, trucks, What to get...theres just so many choices. I guess ill just wait for the right one, i should know it when i see it...

[Bear_Claw]

Go to a parts yard find a nice detroit fix it and drop it into your pickup of choice... :D
Could always try a nice Cat engine...:]

Heh, my shop teacher just dropped a 4cyl detroit into his Ford F250 had to cut out a section of the firewall and do a whole bunch of other things I wouldnt be able to do.

/Detroit sounds awsome!
//doesnt know a whole lot about diesal
///knows diesal uses compession and glow plugs to ignite fuel/air combo
////do all diesals use an airbox at the bottom instead of air intake valves?




Gotta help ya out here

The engine your teacher used is most likely an old 4-53 detroite TWO stroke Diesel. They VERY unique engeins and are far from a normal engein. These engeins and two stroke Diesels in general have for the most part dissaperead due to their fuel consuption and Emishions. The only palces their still commonely seen is in military vehicals, heavy equipment and Older transit and highway buses and that only cause these typse of vehicals have a tendancy to stick around for a LONG time..

NONE of the larger Diesels have glow plugs and many of the smaller ones dont either. Glow plugs are PURLY a starting AID and are not used once the engine is running. They are used as Diesel fuel is hard to ignights so glow plugs are used to pre heat the air in the cylinder to help ignight the fuel when its injected into the cylinder on the compreshion stroke.

And lastly Most Diesels still have intake valves just like a gas engein but a Diesels intake valves are for AIR ONLY. The fuel is injected Directly into the cylinder from the fuel injector (ALL DIESELS ARE FUEL INJECTED). The reason your teachers engein has what you call an air box (its actually a roots type blower AKA supercharger) is because the engine your teachers used is a two strok engein with holes circling the cylinder wall (liner) Mid way throue the pistons stroke. It gets it intake air though these holse rather than a intake valve. Because of this these engiens make MASIVE amounts of HP but lack the low end tq most aquited with diesel engeins.

IF you want any more info on two stroks or diesels in general feel free to toss me a PM. I Have had 3 Diesel vehicals myself and am a Licensed Diesel Heavy truck mehcanic for a living.

[p8ntbal4me]

I bought a new truck in 2005.

I wanted a Chevy but I had a minor runnin with the local Chevy dealer so I got very mad and took my money to a Ford dealer that day.

Anyways,.. I bought a 2005 F-350 Diesel.

All I can say is that I am not going back to a gasoline vehicle for a long time.

My truck is stock as it only is used to get me back and forth to work.
I dont plow with it either. I have pulled a few things with it, put alot of weight in it and I have been VERY please with my purchase ever since.

I have towed a trailer, with a Cubcadet 7620 series tractor (its heavy!), a sidewalk grader that I built (a small lawn mower with a grader blade under it), and a drag box in the back of my bed for the Cub Cadet.

I pulled up a very steep hill doing 40mph (speed limit was 30) with the OD on no problems. I was even picking up speed after my turbo kicked up a notch!

I dont get into the whole Chevy v.s. Ford thing because Im only interested in what looks and performes the best for my money.

Getting a diesel was the best thing in a vehicle I have bought.

I dont know alot about diesels or cars and such,.... but my HO would be to get a diesel. They are worth it.

[Lohman446]

I bought a new truck in 2005.

I wanted a Chevy but I had a minor runnin with the local Chevy dealer so I got very mad and took my money to a Ford dealer that day.

Anyways,.. I bought a 2005 F-350 Diesel.

All I can say is that I am not going back to a gasoline vehicle for a long time.

My truck is stock as it only is used to get me back and forth to work.
I dont plow with it either. I have pulled a few things with it, put alot of weight in it and I have been VERY please with my purchase ever since.

I have towed a trailer, with a Cubcadet 7620 series tractor (its heavy!), a sidewalk grader that I built (a small lawn mower with a grader blade under it), and a drag box in the back of my bed for the Cub Cadet.

I pulled up a very steep hill doing 40mph (speed limit was 30) with the OD on no problems. I was even picking up speed after my turbo kicked up a notch!

I dont get into the whole Chevy v.s. Ford thing because Im only interested in what looks and performes the best for my money.

Getting a diesel was the best thing in a vehicle I have bought.

I dont know alot about diesels or cars and such,.... but my HO would be to get a diesel. They are worth it.

You are discussing a brand new diesel though, far different stories. For $3500 you are going to get an old diesel, probably not properly maintained, and run into the big negative side effects of a diesel - MUCH higher repair costs. The Chevy vs Ford thing is not a Chevy vs Ford thing as you think it is. My reasoning for telling him to avoid old Chevy diesels was based firmly on my experience in the repair industry. If you buy an old Chevy diesel be prepared to spend $1500 having the injector pump replaced, you will have to about every 100K miles or so, if not more often.

If I was looking at new(er) vehicles, and had a strong reason for needing towing capacity (as you seem to) I would strongly consider a diesel.

Again, if you do not have the need to haul or tow with it on a regular basis a diesel truck is not worth it.

I would avoid any diesel you can buy for $3500 unless you are qualified to work on them yourself.

[p8ntbal4me]

If I was looking at new(er) vehicles, and had a strong reason for needing towing capacity (as you seem to) I would strongly consider a diesel.

Again, if you do not have the need to haul or tow with it on a regular basis a diesel truck is not worth it.

I would avoid any diesel you can buy for $3500 unless you are qualified to work on them yourself.

I hear alot of times diesels are specific to mechanics and it take diesel mechs to fix diesels,.. not just a run of the mill mech? <---- no offence to you if anyone is a mechanic!

[Lohman446]

I hear alot of times diesels are specific to mechanics and it take diesel mechs to fix diesels,.. not just a run of the mill mech? <---- no offence to you if anyone is a mechanic!

I have two people (out of 7) in my shop that I have do anything but normal maintenance on a diesel. They are different to some degree, not ununderstandably different, but different.

[billybob_81067]

Skife, your quote should be "if it ain't smokin' it's broken"

Cause that's what diesels are supposed to do is smoke.

That's another pro of them too, is if you park in a parking garage or similiar structure you can usually smoke the place up real good before you leave. Especially if you start up on a colder morning. LOL Nice raw unburned fuel in the air burning your eyes.

I absolutely love the smell of diesels starting up.

Diesels are definately a whole different beast from gasoline engines, and then there's the different kinds of diesels which are whole different beasts as well...

6.9 and 7.3 earlier ford diesels use an injection pump
94.5 - current Powerstrokes use HEUI injection system
Cummins use an injection pump system
Have no idea what Duramax uses (never been around one)
Detroit's are 2 strokes and use some kind of funky injectors. (Need to research on Detroits some more because I'm getting ready to replace an injector or two in one of our Michigan loaders with a 3-53 in it. May also build a replacement engine for them with an old engine we pulled out of one of them.)

BTW 3150 and 3160 Cat diesels sound rediculously awesome when they're straight piped!

[maxama10]

My buddy has an old ford 7.3l powerstroke that he got for around 2k and it runs great. Trucks in decent shape too.


be aware that changing the oil requires much more than a gasoline engine( he uses several gallons, I wanna say something like 4 or 5)

Edit: his burns diesal when he starts it up so a cloud of blue smoke billows out... :D He said theres some part he needs to replace but is too lazy and cheap to fix it

[maxama10]

Also you might wanna check out these links

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel-two-stroke.htm
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel

[billybob_81067]

My buddy has an old ford 7.3l powerstroke that he got for around 2k and it runs great. Trucks in decent shape too.


be aware that changing the oil requires much more than a gasoline engine( he uses several gallons, I wanna say something like 4 or 5)

Edit: his burns diesal when he starts it up so a cloud of blue smoke billows out... :D He said theres some part he needs to replace but is too lazy and cheap to fix it

A cummins takes around 12 quarts whereas the 7.3 diesels take about 14 quarts. Of course that's more than double most gasoline engines. Tractor engines do take around 5 gallons and up depending on the size of the tractor.

[Swampy]

My little diesel expirence.
Cummins ISB is probably the best power for its cost.
Older 7.3's are tanks tag it with Ford's Manual Trans and its unbeatable.
CAT's last the longest out of any Diesel.
I was mowing around the Peterbilt dealership last year and heard/saw my first run away. Never seen Diesel Techs run so fast in my life.
By today's standards Gasser's and Diesels get about the same gas mileage and costs even out.