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View Full Version : Why I love Mags and my suggestions for AGD



Don Carnage
03-06-2007, 12:46 AM
I'm fairly new to the AGD family, and my biggest regret in paintball was that it took me years before I bought my first mag. I'm a rec/scenario player who loves being able to work on their own gun. Last summer, a field owner showed me an old 68 Classic he was selling for $75. I knew vaguely what an automag was, but had never used one. After testing it and seeing how quiet it was with almost no recoil, I gladly forked up the cash for a friend who didn't have the money at the time.

That same day I saw several other players with super-fast electro's cheating by flipping on full-auto or ramping when no one was looking, and several other people (mostly kids) receive the brunt of these people's desire to show off how fast their electro's could go. At that point I removed the e-grip from my A-5 and swore never to use it again. I never wanted to be one of those cheaters, or even accused of it. I knew I wanted to try a different gun and wanted something with no recoil, light weight, consistent, durable, and 100% mechanical.

Later, when I got home, I opened up the automag and was blown away at how disgusting the internals were. I'm sure the prior owner had never once cleaned it. The buildup along the bolt spring and inside the reg looked like mud. I was amazed that a gun that dirty could shoot so well with no problems. I also learned of AGD's star warranty and decided a mag would be my next gun.

I'm now the proud owner of a shiny new RT Pro with the ULE Trigger and the old Tippmann is officially a loaner. I rant and rave about how wonderful my mag is, and can't help but wonder why I never heard of such an incredible marker before. Being a mag owner is like being in some secret club. The few others I've met since I started using mine, all talked to me with an almost sense of brotherhood for knowing the 'secret'.

This left me again with the question, "Why don't I see more of these around?"

Many will say it's because most players are fickle and want only the newest bells and whistles of electro-eyes, 25+ bps, ramping, etc. And while that may be true to a good extent, I disagree.

The current mags, while non-upgradable as far as performance, lack the cosmetic options that many other markers have. While colored ULE bodies are a good start, whatever happened to the colored X-valves? I understand the costs involved in designing a new product, but an ano-job is cheap. Also, if AGD offered anno'd triggers that match the colored ULE body, they could sell them for $20 extra and have very little overhead cost.

It saddens me that the slug bodies are gone because that means so are Deadly Wind's custom bodies. It's kinda funny to think how much money I'd be willing to pay for a purely cosmetic part, but I'm not alone.

Lets look at scenario players. Scenario guns, for the most part, are as technically sophisticated as a VM-68. However they look like modern firearms, and for that they go for hundreds of dollars. Scenario players will pay cash hand over fist for fake magazines, silencers, weaver rails, bi-pods, and other gear that is only for image. Because of that, most manufacturers will gladly sell them junk markers.

The Tac-One is a good step for AGD. When Spec-Ops paintball made their 'custom' guns for the various types of players, they were all modified A-5's, save the sniper rifle. For that they used a Mag.

Most of us can agree that AGD needs a new mag body to update their image. I believe they need to take it one step further. Make 2 bodies (at least) and increase the accessory options. I already made the suggestion that I'd love to see a ULE Minimag body. (The scenario guys would love it) And there's another thread of some very good suggestions for new bodies for sleeker 'speedball' guns.

But why stop there?

What about a foregrip option on new guns? Throw them in the ano vat with the ULE bodies and triggers so players can have matching grips too. Why not made a long rectangular 'fake magazine' foregrip for anyone who wants a Tac-One? Most players don't have access or the know-how to anodize or mill their own guns. Don't assume that they'll have their parts anodized if they want them. Do it for them, charge a little extra, and then advertise that AGD is the ONLY paintball company that will color match your valve, body, foregrip, and trigger at the customer's request. Beat that, Ion.

As far as performance, the X-valve with Lvl 10 and ULE trigger is about as good as it gets. In lieu of demonstrating their newest performance upgrade, AGD needs to show off the incredible customability of their markers. I'd love to flip through a paintball mag and see an add with the newest bodies and a caption that reads, "Upgrades, we don't need no stinkin upgrades. Options, we got plenty of those."

Anyway, that's my rant. My only hope would be for AGD to succeed in having a mag in the hands of more players.

aqua_scummm
03-06-2007, 01:04 AM
Welcome to the world of mags :)

I agree they're awesome, but the company can do more to recapture some market share.

Anyways, enjoy! And get a job at AGD!

nathanjones008
03-06-2007, 06:27 AM
nice story! welcome to the family. :dance:

flyboy
03-06-2007, 08:27 AM
One of the things I like about mags is they can't really be made to look like an real fire arm without doing a lot of work. Mil sim is fine if that's what your into. But most mag owners want function over form so you won't see a lot of fake cheap plasctic hanging on them to make them look like an m-16 or an mp5.

neppo1345
03-06-2007, 08:43 AM
I love Rogue and his shameless plugs :)

One thing that alarmed me is how you automatically group people with electronic guns together with cheaters. It's a shame you feel that way.

Also, welcome to AO

RavishingEddie
03-06-2007, 11:13 AM
Well I am a guy that went from Scenario to Speedball and now I play both. All I have to say is that I almost made a big mistake by selling my ULE'd Emag for a shiny electro. From listening to my friends ranting of how this gun and that gun is so much better because of special eyes etc etc. So I went to the Pomona Paintball expo to meet the makers of the new electro that was to replace my Emag. I won't mention company names, but the thing felt like a friggin toy and the guy didn't even want to answer my questions he was like "So are you going to buy it or what?". Right there and then reality kicked me in the face and I came straight here and bought a Xvalve to replace the one I sold. Now the only way I will shoot another gun is if I become sponsored and they give it to me for free. My emag is really light with shadow rail, ule body, ULE emag frame combined with my Myth reg and Legionair tank. Not as light as an Ego, but light enough snap shoot against one with no problems. Also tunning the LVL 10 isn't that hard and when done right it will not chop at all. If you don't like the chuffing put a Velocity or Pulse and forget about it.

Dryden
03-06-2007, 11:34 AM
This left me again with the question, "Why don't I see more of these around?"

Many will say it's because most players are fickle and want only the newest bells and whistles of electro-eyes, 25+ bps, ramping, etc. And while that may be true to a good extent, I disagree.
There is no reason to disagree -- it is entirely true.

Look ... to each his own! Shoot whatever you think is best for you, but the bottom line is that players today don't shoot Mags because the Mag isn't "cool." Sadly, that's it!

Here was a post made on PBN in the Automags forum a few weeks ago by someone calling themselves "dm4baby":


Dye owns all markers period, however once being a very proud RT,E & X mag owner, I can say that AGD left us, meaning the customers. They are a failing company that refuses to keep up with todays market. What adg needs to do is keep the same valve design however market mags better. The need to redesign a new mag with an xvalve, have the air line run through the bottom of the frame instead of the side, and then add some awsome milling and looks and put a cool double trigger on.
So, here we have a player that first states "Dye owns all markers period," then goes on to list the reasons how AGD abandoned the customers. Unless I've misread, the failings of the Mag (and it's deficiencies when held up against, say, a Dye marker) are the external hose and the milling. :tard:

mag_lover05
03-06-2007, 11:50 AM
Ya hey Welcome to AO.

SummaryJudgement
03-06-2007, 03:14 PM
Ive come close to that too. All but the valve, since most upgrade the bottomline. Its called the Mini-Tac. Custom machining(body shortened in front and rear, dual detents), custom ano(all matching dust black), & RPG trigger.

http://home.earthlink.net/~roguefactor/MiniTac.jpg

The Mini-Tac Pro has all that, + dual RPG ReTents, Clamping Feedneck, and RPG foregrip

http://home.earthlink.net/~roguefactor/MiniTacPro.jpg

I did 8 of them, and in 2 1/2 months, I still have a few left.

That rail is awsome Rogue! Did you do it? Could/would you be able to do a one-off design in the future?

I think that's the nicest Tac I've ever seen :cheers:

jenarelJAM
03-06-2007, 06:57 PM
A shameless plug would have included a link to the Dealers forum thread.
So here you go :D
http://www.automags.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12

Don Carnage
03-06-2007, 08:49 PM
RogueFactor:
While you do bring up several good points, most of the aftermarket parts and bodies you named are no longer in production. If the average guy could still go out and buy a brand new Karta, or micromag, it would be different. Not everyone enjoys having to duke it out in Ebay for used parts because that's the only place you can get them anymore.

There are choices in the old twist-lock bodies, but then you have the issue of barrels. Most of the popular or newer barrels are not made twist-lock anymore. You can find some used ones on ebay, but not everyone wants to trust a used barrel. This in of itself intimidates people from wanting one of those 'dated' bodies.

The Paradgim Pro is a beautiful Mag. I agree, it's sleek and wonderful. I bought mine form the MagSmith in November. The reason I went there is I preferred a rail without holes because I had no intention of ever keeping the stock foregrip extender and sight hood. I also liked the ano'd trigger and foregrip.

The point of my original post (other than saying why I love mags) was that the manufacturer needs to update their design and image for the mass of players who are not using or aware of mags. In a market where other high-end guns are now sporting their '2007 Edition' that can out shoot the competition, speak 3 languages, and wash the car, AGD needs to do something to update their look. The ULE bodies haven't changed in years. I just think it's time for something new.

That's why I'm suggesting to go for the scenario market. A large chunk of scenario players want a mech-only gun. However, a DW Chord or a RPG Exile doesn't fit their image. I think the Tac-One needs an AGD-made little brother. If enough players start using mags, more aftermarket manufacturers will start creating their own accessories. This leads to more appeal, more guns sold, and more cash for our friend, AGD.

Flyboy:
True the current mags can't be easily modified to receive a stock. But look at the Spec Ops Longbow. They merely attached a stock using the screw holes that were already in the sides of the Tac One. I'm sure an industrious person can make a rail that accepts more of those accessories.

As for what most mag owners wanting more function over form, I agree. But I'm discussing marketing to a large crowd of non-mag owners that has the money, and very few options that aren't blow-backs.

neppo1345:
I'm not lumping all electro-users together with cheaters. I said those people that day did, and I didn't want to ever be accused of that. Because of that, I removed the electro-trigger from my gun and went shopping for one that didn't need it.

FARMER00
03-06-2007, 09:15 PM
Being a mag owner is like being in some secret club. The few others I've met since I started using mine, all talked to me with an almost sense of brotherhood for knowing the 'secret'.



that needs to be quoted and used in a sales gimmick or somthing, it is soo true

DSR75
03-06-2007, 10:40 PM
Actually it's very easy to mount a stock to a mag. Just look at mine:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d41/BIGCountry75/IMG_0390.jpg

Don Carnage
03-07-2007, 01:04 AM
Nice. Now that's what I'm talking about!

I understand Rogue. Afterall, I call myself more of a scenario player, but I went for the gloss black gun first. Other than my big regret that it took me so long to buy a mag, my second big paintball regret is I didn't join AO until AFTER you had closed the Chimera Frame preorder.

Looks like I'm going to have to go back to duking it out on ebay. :cry:

aqua_scummm
03-07-2007, 01:08 AM
It has been my long standing belief that AGD should release a stock proclassic with a tac one mainbody and a basic barrel, for under $300. I think it would produce great sales in the entry level to mid level woodsball community. Espescially with the promotion of the integrated regulator, since so few casual players know how a mag operates

don miguel
03-07-2007, 02:59 PM
woah, you have my first name kinda. are we related? good thread, but AGD hasn't and probably wont be doing much for new products anytime soon. Most mag parts as you see in the pics thread are aftermarket.

Don Carnage
03-07-2007, 05:36 PM
I figured as much, Don. But the way I see it, I can't gripe unless I actually give my opinion that they need the product update.



woah, you have my first name kinda. are we related?

Well, we coulld be related...distantly. You might remember me from Disney’s Tailspin. :argh:

wjr
03-07-2007, 06:46 PM
I admit that I haven't read the thread... but I have a sort of OT question:


...FESTUS body, IT/Extreme Depot Body, PBX body...

What's a PBX body?