One of the better Cheating disscussions I've seen "over there"

[Pneumagger]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=32715967&posted=1#post32715967

This thread just struck me as one of the better threads I've ever seen on this topic. Surprisingly, it came from that other forum, nevertheless a worthwhile read. Be careful though, as threads on that forum tend to quickly spiral into a stupefying jumble of flaming and ignorance - so if you feel any symptoms of getting dumber, GET OUT! :ninja:

/it's a shame one of the few worthwhile posts over there are about how cheating plagues the sport.

[FlawleZ]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=32715967&posted=1#post32715967

This thread just struck me as one of the better threads I've ever seen on this topic. Surprisingly, it came from that other forum, nevertheless a worthwhile read. Be careful though, as threads on that forum tend to quickly spiral into a stupefying jumble of flaming and ignorance - so if you feel any symptoms of getting dumber, GET OUT! :ninja:

/it's a shame one of the few worthwhile posts over there are about how cheating plagues the sport.


Ya know, it is rather disturbing that cheating is so evident in the game we love so much. But in reality, cheating exists in EVERY sport and in nearly EVERY competitive event or gathering that we as humans take part in. It's just a fact of life. What we CAN do is develop better methods to make it harder to cheat. I know this is something taken very seriously at all levels of competition in our sport, but its obvious we have much work to do. The system MUST improve.

I haven't even read the thread yet but that's how I feel and I doubt what I read will change that.

[jenarelJAM]

Actually, I kinda find it disturbing how many people are <i>defending</i> wiping...
At least a few people have the right idea over there. I don't usually go on pbn, so I'm not sure how much better/worse this is compared to the usual mentality over there, but I've never been impressed by pbn.

[Pneumagger]

I started reading that thread expecting a bajillion people to be defending wiping as part of the game. There were alot more people than I though that stated otherwise. I was pleasantly surprised.

I personally feel you can never get rid of cheating in many sports, but you can change the image of cheating quite easily - as well as change the economics of cheating. I think that is one way paintball is a bit different and can never become "mainstream" - it's ability to passively condone cheating by letting it happen on a large scale and only attempting to punish those who are are not smooth at cheating.

[Ninjeff]

I think harsher penalties are in order. I think that instead of the kids learning from the "pros" that sucha nd so is ok, they should learn from US that such practices are shameful. I long for the day when i can hear some new player say
"Oh..dude..you like "Joe x Player?!? what a loser. I saw him cheat in such and so tourney."

Forced elimination of the team for the tourney, and a multi tourney elimination of said player for "x" amount of time. Monetary fines if nessesary also.

[mag_lover05]

Well, PBN isnt totally full of idiots... and its a great place to find any used pump gun.

However, i really do like that thread... I just hate the idiots over there that say "we all cheat. get over it."

[sixtoes1313]

Plain and simple- cheating is for jerks( im sure other words could be inserted) If the urge to win that great that you have to deny being beated by a better or luckier player than yourself? Its all part of the game. You win some you loose some. Cheating just throws off the balance and everything to come. Im tourny ball its kind of like one of those time travel things. Where if you mess one thing up in the past than a team win that maybe wasnt supposed to effecting everyone else down the line. I play recball only for the cheating factor because i think it'd be so stressful to try and compete where everyone cheats to win that it'd take the fun out of the game. And overall isn't that what paintball is supposed to be? DARE I SAY THE WORD FUN! :wow: Yep, not all about winning. I've had some great battles go on between me and another player and loose and still shake his hand at the end of it. Thats why i keep playing. Because most of the times there are still some good guys or gals out there who are honest about it. One time at our local feild we were waiting to be picked up and were let into the shop with the owners and refs and were just talking and they went on about how to cheat in the upcoming tournament! Talking about how to do dives on one side if you think your hit or how the shape of certain hoppers is so you can wipe with one thumb perfectly. All kinds of cheating stuff that just blew me away. I couldnt beleive that the people running the show support that crap! However they did say one thing that makes sense. " In current tournies you have to cheat to win. plain and simple"
Overall penalties wont ever stop wiping because people have their minds set in the wrong place. Its a decision every individual has to make in their minds whether to be a cheater or an honest person about it." Im honest about it and even if the ball doesn't break but i know it hurt a bit and hit a vital area ill call myself out. Because they hit me fair and square. my $.02

[turbo chicken]

Well, PBN isnt totally full of idiots... and its a great place to find any used pump gun.



yep that about sums it up ... but my friggin ID won't work ... i used to scan the BST's frequently ...

But cheating ... yeah ... justifies ... a bunker move and aiming for the nuts ... or instead of a barrel tag maybe a single point blank shot in the middle of the back between the shoulder blades ... and politely tell them to stop wiping on the walk off the field

It has to be done that way ... IDK if the start back to their old ways the next time at the field but I guarantee that they'll at least stop for a few games ...

[Badmovies.org]

I detest people who cheat and seem to encounter it just about every other time I play at a field. Most of the time it is something minor, like a kid in his early teens wiping. I have seen pretty ugly examples, like a person taking a hit, wiping, then running up and shooting the person who hit them at close range.

When someone does something that is dangerous to others or plain cruel, I address the issue. Been booted off the field a few times due to this, but I think it is the right thing to do.

I was playing one day in January and one guy on the other team kept wiping. You would put multiple hits on him; he would duck down or run away, then be right back again and still playing. Last game of the day I finally got my chance. Charged him and just kept shooting him as he tried his "get away" and wipe trick. He finally crouched down and I stopped shooting him when I got hit. Probably hit him 40 or 50 times. At the end of the day he was showing some other guys that he had a lot of welts on his right side.

Anyway, I always suggest being harsh when you have to punish somebody for cheating at a game. If you wipe in a tournament, you should get thrown out for the rest of the tourney (at the minimum).

[robnix]

Anyway, I always suggest being harsh when you have to punish somebody for cheating at a game. If you wipe in a tournament, you should get thrown out for the rest of the tourney (at the minimum).

I look at it like getting a red card in a soccer game, your team should be forced to play one down for the rest of the tourney.

[SummaryJudgement]

Yeah, cheating is cheating. Make the penalty soooo bad that the other team members will jump all over someone if they cheat in any form (or get caught that is).

Plus there could easily be a full video review after every pro-game. And make serious penalties given even after it is all said and done.

Make the punishment so bad, no one will want to even try :nono:

[punkncat]

I love this "not good enough to win w/o cheating" mentality. It really shows how clueless those that truly believe that are. As I have said before, the problem isn't having the skill to win w/o cheating, its having the skill AND cheating to win. Unfortunatly it is a part of the sport that at least for the near future will not go away.

I have had to teach myself to play on the premise that anything I can't see might have bounced. I will call paintcheck, and hope a ref can see and properly call me, and hope I don't get called for playing on. Things happen too fast to take a moment to make sure you are hit or not. That hesitation will cost a game.

If I am playing a purely recreational game I have been known to call myself on solid hits. It really has a lot to do with who I am playing against, and what I think they would do.

[Railgun]

Let's face it. Wiping won't go away until the penalty for being caught is high enough to prevent it. For starters being caught wiping with a hand or a deliberate body movement should result in expulsion for the day. If it could be taken as an accidental movement then for the game. That'll make them think twice..... or get sneakier.

[hmudd13]

Well I read it, and now my head hurts :mad:

Some of the posters almost made me want to hang out there, with actually intelligent remarks.
But then............. I get a headache trying to decipher all the spelling errors. :tard:

[paintballwannab]

LOL "over there"

[geekwarrior]

I have to stay out of those discussions....i got the one on Angel owners closed because I got so disgusted with the "cheating is necessary, you're niave if you dont agree" mentality. Sad, as I thought Angel owners was more inline with AO.

[Don Carnage]

If I am playing a purely recreational game I have been known to call myself on solid hits.

Thank you for playing with honor. :headbang: We're a dying breed.

My wife got into paintball in ’96, years before I did. She then got out of it for a long time because the field she worked at had several tournament players who among other things, practiced cheating techniques.

Some tactics included sliding as a way to wipe, shooting a bunker right in front of you so you could claim the shot was your own splatter, or switching shooting sides, so when your arm and gun moved across you body, you could wipe without being seen.

I’ll agree cheating exists in just about every sport. But with paintball, it’s just over the top. I remember when someone showed me the ‘wipe feature’ on Greg Hasting’s Paintball game. I just about threw up. How can people whine that Paintball isn’t respected enough as a sport, and then openly admit to cheating?

The other thing that promotes cheating is ego. If some guy pays hundreds of dollars for their setup, they can’t stand the thought that a kid with a spyder or a rental might have gotten a good shot. It happens. I know that if a first-timer manages to hit me, I’ll miss the last few minutes of a game before the next one starts, and by not cheating, I just made that kid’s day. That might lead to that kid enjoying himself and getting into paintball regularly.

My only wish is that caught tournament cheaters will be kicked out of the tournament, and have their sponsorships taken away. Rec-ball cheaters should be stripped to their skivvies and used at chrono-station targets.
:mad:

[Pump Scout]

Thank you for playing with honor. :headbang: We're a dying breed.
Indeed we are. I'm one of those odd ducks today who would rather lose honestly than win by cheating. I've gone as far as to have all the people on my team (including family members) to sign a form that states very clearly that anyone caught cheating on our team will be shown the door immediately. Heck, I'd rather play short a person than play with a cheat.


I remember when someone showed me the ‘wipe feature’ on Greg Hasting’s Paintball game.
Now, that's something a little murky. I tend to view the GHTP thing as a way to introducing bounced shots, rather than flat-out wiping. I'd like to think that while programming the game, they didn't want to have a percentage chance of bounce for each hit, so they made it a user function. I like to think that, although I know that wasn't the intent. :tard:


My only wish is that caught tournament cheaters will be kicked out of the tournament, and have their sponsorships taken away. Rec-ball cheaters should be stripped to their skivvies and used at chrono-station targets.
:mad:
Definitely agree on that. I hear rumors that Markus Nielsen finally torqued off WDP enough to lose his sponsorship, but how long was he their poster boy? Seven years? How long has he been more known for his cheating than his playing? At least that long. A blatant cheat, one that cannot have been misinterpreted for anything other than a cheat, should be treated as harshly as possible. Then again, I'm also of a mind that the "big leagues" should adopt a NASCAR mentality when it comes to obvious equipment cheating. Bring a cheater board, the inspection staff confiscates it on the spot. A few weeks later, they could mail it back to the owner, cut in half. Send a clear message - DO NOT CHEAT, because it'll be expensive both financially and reputationally. Yes, I made that word up.