Low tax Vs High tax

[Raven001]

I don't know if anyone on this forum is interested but I saw report recently that compares countries with a low rate of taxation (like the US) VS countries with a high rate of taxation (like Sweden). I found the observations interesting and wonder what you all think?

http://policyalternatives.ca/documents/National_Office_Pubs/2006/Benefits_and_Costs_of_Taxation.pdf

[Mind'sEye]

Hard to know where to start. Briefly, it may be difficult to compare Scandanavian countries, which are no larger than a U.S. state to our massive federal government. For instance, unlike the Scandinavian countries, a large portion of our tax dollars goes to the military. Now, you could argue that those tax dollars have not always been used wisely over the years, however, the fact that the U.S. bailed Western Europe out a nasty situation in WWII and held the Soviet Union at bay during the cold war, would indicate that OUR country should retain a strong military force. When you compare something like foreign aid you also have to consider that the American people themselves are more giving than any other. They have retained their tax dollars and give to worldwide charities through churches and other non-profits. This direct giving tends to get directly to the intended destination more effectively than money given to another government or the UN to distribute. Perhaps the biggest problem our nation faces is a pop culture which glorifies violence, a get rich quick mentality, useless "pop idols", etc. The basics, such as education and hard work, still lead to success here if you're willing to apply them.

[personman]

tl;dr

[SCpoloRicker]

National Sales Tax.


/lawn, porch, off, etc.
//libertarian

[teufelhunden]

National Sales Tax.


/lawn, porch, off, etc.
//libertarian

The argument to that though is that it's a quite regressive tax; the "poor" spends a much higher percentage of their income overall as well as to survive. So, even if you cut out "survival needs" the poor will end up paying a higher average tax rate than the rich.

Further, are these only retail transactions? Because if so, count out a good part of corporate tax revenues; of which have been on the rise [as have personal, even with the Bush tax cuts].

[teufelhunden]

Oh, and on-topic;

I didn't read much of the link, I skimmed through the summary and it seems to be quite obviously slanted in a manner which will say "personal wealth = bad" and, for instance, says "everybody has medical care = good but we don't care if it's terrible". There's a reason our health care system is the best in the world and it isn't because the government is paying for all of it.

[dsrkd]

You should note that the report only refers to a Federal type tax rate. It does not include State income tax, State and local 'fees', property tax, excise taxes, sales tax, etc... The next time you recieve a local phone bill, take a look at the actual charge for the service and then look at the bottom line of what you are paying.

Also not defined is 'poverty level'. Poverty level differs dramatically depending upon the culture of the country. Here in the U.S. the average poverty level family has one car, two televions and at least one dvd player. Obviously that is a generalization but in no way can it compare to poverty in Kenya.

[SCpoloRicker]

Further, are these only retail transactions?

No.


Because if so, count out a good part of corporate tax revenues; of which have been on the rise [as have personal, even with the Bush tax cuts].

We're more in agreement than you probably think. ;)

[teufelhunden]

More than likely, I tend to fall along libertarian lines myself, I just can't bring myself to support the actual libterarians who run for office ;)

Supprting a semi-complicated tax structure is a bit self serving; a great deal of my livelihood depends upon it :) Easy taxes = no need for accountants [on the tax end]= :(

[Raven001]

I was hesitant to put this up for discussion as the report is 55 pages long, too long for most peoples attention span. I was however curious to see how americans would respond to the conlusions of the report. For those who don't want to read the whole thing, the summary is on page 7 and while it clearly finds the Nordic results superior to the "Anglo American" results, it does list where the later do rank higher.

I also think that to dwell on the difference in population of the Nordic counties vs America ingnores that the larger non Nordic European countries like France and Germany also score better than the Anglo American entries.

Now the main reason why I put this up is because I have always been curious why a significant number of Americans I have met are anti government (anti taxes as one example) but pro military (US of course :D ). Now the reason why I say this is because I don't understand how one can have a large military without taxes paying for it.

Just thinking out loud for now....

[going_home]

http://www.fairtax.org

The best thing we could do for ourselves and the country.
Send all the IRS employees to the unemployment line.
And pay no more federal / state income tax, no more medicare or SS.
Dont want to pay any taxes ? Buy used instead of new auto's and homes.

Before you flame the idea from all the rumors you have heard about the plan,
get the book and inform yourself on it:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060875410/bookstorenow57-20

[Mind'sEye]

Now the main reason why I put this up is because I have always been curious why a significant number of Americans I have met are anti government (anti taxes as one example) but pro military (US of course :D ). Now the reason why I say this is because I don't understand how one can have a large military without taxes paying for it.

Do we need a military? Read history. Nothing has changed. Americans who oppose high taxes generally oppose expanding the re-distribution of their own money. It's very simple. If you can guarantee that a national health program will cost me less or no more than I presently pay, I will favor it. If it's going to cost me more, to pay for someone else, then I oppose it. It's MY money. I earned it.

[SCpoloRicker]

It is interesting that Americans, living in one of the least taxed economies in the world, tend to complain the most about how much they pay.

I'm not saying it's screwed up; it is. But considering the alternatives...

[teufelhunden]

It is interesting that Americans, living in one of the least taxed economies in the world, tend nto ***** the most about how much they pay.

I'm not saying it's screwed up; it is. But considering the alternatives...

I think that's probably a vocal minority type of deal. However, as it is, those who pay the most receive, in turn, the least. So, it's understandable why those in, say, the 28%+ tax brackets are put off, ya know? And, relative to much of our past, what we as Americans are paying now seems appalling.

[Aggravated Assault]

http://www.fairtax.org

The best thing we could do for ourselves and the country.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060875410/bookstorenow57-20
QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Least taxed? In the world? Compared to what other countries? I almost have a hard time beliving that.

I, myself would like to keep more of my OWN money.



/libertarian

[Rooster]

"Now the main reason why I put this up is because I have always been curious why a significant number of Americans I have met are anti government (anti taxes as one example) but pro military (US of course ). Now the reason why I say this is because I don't understand how one can have a large military without taxes paying for it. "

quite simply. We force adults to act like adults. If you don't work, you don't eat. There are two needs for social welfare: the case of children and the case of the severarly handicapped. That's it. Everyone else can live, or die, on their own merits as a functioning, adult, human being. We are weakening our species by dragging ourselves down to the level of our weakest members. If you are too lazy to work, you need to starve. Your influance upon future generations needs to be mitigated.

[billybob_81067]

"Now the main reason why I put this up is because I have always been curious why a significant number of Americans I have met are anti government (anti taxes as one example) but pro military (US of course ). Now the reason why I say this is because I don't understand how one can have a large military without taxes paying for it. "

quite simply. We force adults to act like adults. If you don't work, you don't eat. There are two needs for social welfare: the case of children and the case of the severarly handicapped. That's it. Everyone else can live, or die, on their own merits as a functioning, adult, human being. We are weakening our species by dragging ourselves down to the level of our weakest members. If you are too lazy to work, you need to starve. Your influance upon future generations needs to be mitigated.

QFT, +1, etc.

/Rooster! I haven't noticed any posting from you in a looong time!

[Aggravated Assault]

Two things got me thinking.

1. Why americans, who are in favor of a simple, fair, non-progressive system of taxation, would be considered anti-government.

2. This tax/military angle. Don't get it. I am wondering what our military budget looks like compared to: tax spending of our entire nation as a whole. To me, you can't just look at federal dollars. Your state collects a bunch of dollars from you too, with income taxes, property taxes, etc. Even down to your local city taxes. To just hold up a federal pie chart and say "this is where your tax money goes" is not the entire picture.

[NotKai]

Lowtax was funny like, five years ago.

Somethingawful sucks now.

All they've got left is Zach and Dr. Thorpe.

[SCpoloRicker]

Lowtax was funny like, five years ago.

Somethingawful sucks now.

All they've got left is Zach and Dr. Thorpe.

I see what you did there.

[Tunaman]

"Now the main reason why I put this up is because I have always been curious why a significant number of Americans I have met are anti government (anti taxes as one example) but pro military (US of course ). Now the reason why I say this is because I don't understand how one can have a large military without taxes paying for it. "

quite simply. We force adults to act like adults. If you don't work, you don't eat. There are two needs for social welfare: the case of children and the case of the severarly handicapped. That's it. Everyone else can live, or die, on their own merits as a functioning, adult, human being. We are weakening our species by dragging ourselves down to the level of our weakest members. If you are too lazy to work, you need to starve. Your influance upon future generations needs to be mitigated.Bravo! BRAVO!!!! Keep voting in the Libs and see how much MORE of your money goes to paying for the poor and others less fortunate. They will find or construe more "programs" to dispense YOUR money to others that dont have any. When is someone going to give ME something? I have been paying out my arse for 40 years only to see them building a new Hockey rink in the middle of the ghetto. Just what they need....
Get 'um outta there! :mad:

[SCpoloRicker]

I'd propose to amend that "Libs" to "fiscal idiots" as I believe it transcends party lines, and is more appropriate. ;)