Impulse and Angel Owners Need Your Help

[AGD]

Guys,

I need to know which of the two guns in the poll breaks less paint DOWN THE BARREL. We are not talking about chopping here we are talking about shooting super fragile paint, which one handles it better.

thanks!

AGD

[damageinc54]

They are both blenders. I do not say that to be a smart $$$. That is what I have seen on my own team. One of my team mates has an Impulse and it broke a lot more paint than my Bushmaster did. Another one of my team mates Cobra Angel broke a lot of paint also. I question how he had is set up though. A couple of my other guys have Angels that do not break nearly as much as his Cobra

[redrider87]

I do not know about the Angel but my Impulse broke about 5 balls in 10 cases last summer.

[Failure]

I also dont mean to be a smart alek but the angel I just bought hasnt broken a ball in 5000 shots. The blender rumor is just a rumor. The field that I play at has crappy condition team colors so it is more prone to chopping too.

[[NA]WARLORD]

I didnt have much problems with breaks on my "marker formerly known as IMPY" but i was using a vision and a freak if that says anything, i think i may have had 2 breaks out of 5 cases before i sold it. I would recommend an Impulse to anyone, if ya want a low grade electro, but a tall marker.... thats why i got rid of it..tehe!!

[sylver]

Hi all,

I must say that the Angel is one of the sweetest that I've been able to use in this respect. In a whole season I only chopped once and never had a ball break in the barrel due to a thin shell.

[dawump]

I can't vote here because I have no experience - but I would like to see the numbers, and can't see the numbers until I vote.

Could someone post the results so far, or could the poll be changed to include an "I don't know" so that others can see the results. I bet without an "I don't know" the numbers will be skewed as people will vote randomly just to see the results.

Thanks

Keith

[BlackVCG]

dawump- Just click on the "View Results" right next to the Vote button.

[dawump]

I guess it's duh-wump today.

KEith

[King Gabey]

I haven't owned an angel, but I own an impulse
and the only times I've broken paint was when
I flicked the trigger while the barrel condom was
still on. I've played it through about 5 or 6
cases of paint right now.

[IceCool32]

I've shot 3 cases through my Impulse, I've had one break down the barrel, But then again with was Sheridan type wal-mart paint, yeah.....So you guys can smack me now.


I'd say Impulse, I've seen my friends fly breaks more paint down the barrel then on the oppenent.

[Nitroduck]

I'd say Angel.

[DarkRipper]

Well, as a former angel owner I must say that the chopping thing is mainly found on poorly maintained guns... I rarely chopped paint on the 13 different angels I've owned (which include LED & LCDs, Dark, Adrenalin, stock, C&C, etc.).

I can't say the same for the impulse, I'm not a fan.

:)
DR

[Toxic Dave]

Wouldn't barrel breaks, and not chops/ breach breaks be more indicitive of barrel/ paint issues than gun?

I voted for Impulse, but then again I don't break much paint at all in any of my guns.

dave/ gz

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by Toxic Dave
Wouldn't barrel breaks, and not chops/ breach breaks be more indicitive of barrel/ paint issues than gun?

I voted for Impulse, but then again I don't break much paint at all in any of my guns.

dave/ gz

I'd think so too, Dave. This is why Propaintball tried to make their mod for angels, to lower the pressure exerted on the paintball to lessen chops/breaks.

I found that this is good in cockers, where the paint is chambered before firing, but in open bolt guns you have a little leeway...

Of course, this doesn't mean that you can use eggshell paint in a medium-high pressure firing gun. The pulse of air can still crush the paint if it's really fragile.

To be honest, I've found more issues related to the detent on angels as related to chopping paint than related to the bolt itself.

:)
DR

[x86assembly]

my angel has 77k shots on it, I would say about half was actual paint, and honestly I've never broken a ball down the barrel (cp set - matching paint size), but I have outshot the revy and chopped. If you have your angel properly setup, they will run flawlessly
the freeflow era mod was designed to reduce chops, much like the matrix's trinity mod. the stock angels bolt/hammer moves at 85-95psi, the ERA mod drops it by 20psi
also with the angel, you can adjust the dwell(valve-open-time) to compensate for thin/brittle paint.

[Toxic Dave]

I used to shoot both LCD's and LED Angels with Hellfire or Imperial through them and had almost no trouble at all, I don't think I've ever chopped a ball with an electro marker if everything was working(ball detents usually) If you have decent paint and a barrel roughly the same size as the ball you shouldn't have too much trouble with barrel breaks.

dave/gz

[i-luv-my-rt]

I've used both extensively and neither break paint. If you keep up the gun then they wont break paint. BUt that isnt what your asking.

I know the impulse is easier on paint. Running it at about 160 psi makes it this way. I've noticed that with brittle paint an angel's accuracy will go down while impulses will stay very good. Barrel has alot to do with it but not all. I would choose the impulse b/c of the very low operating pressure. Please tell me if my statements are wrong.

[JohnnyRotten]

15 cases of paint and no breaks on my Impy. The one time I remember playing with alot of guys, about 8 had Angels and about 10 had Imps (maybe 5 had the vision eye) there seemed to be about 15 breaks on the Angels and no breaks with the Imps, The store owner even switched his Angel for his Imp. Imps seem to be easier on paint.

[Tom Sparkman]

I have a 98 LED and my 2 friends have 2K LCDs and we use Hellfire (very fragile). They don't break paint down the barrel but they do chop, especially in FA or if the Revo batteries die (I've got a bad habit of not noticing that little red light...). You didn't ask, but 2 other guys that play with us can't use Hellfire (one has an Otto, the other an RT) - they prefer to stick with Marbs (my mags fav too).

Tom

[liigod]

well you gotta take into acount the difference between the angel internals. But i really dislike angels anway. But to be totally honest the impulse breaks less in the barrel with ultra brittle paint.

[Nitroduck]

There's one thing everyone needs to remember...............Stock , the angel comes with a smaller bore barrel , while the impulse comes with medium. Hence the impulse will usually break less paint down the barrel due to a person using medium bore paint........

[Chris]

I had 2 eclipse LED's, never had a barrel break in either, and only time I chopped was when I tried to shoot a hopper in Full Auto...made a purdy mess. I put about 5 cases or so through them.

-Chris

[rgertner1]

I have had 3 Angels in the past 2 years. A 2000 Dark Angel, a 2001 C&C Bonebrake, and a 2002 Stock Black. The only time I ever had a problem with breaking was when the gun wasn't setup properly.

I have broken less than 100 balls in 2 years and about 50 cases of paint. The Angel when setup properly, is a perfect marker.

[liigod]

REMEMBER GUYS, hes talking super fragile paint. WHich smart parts designs their guns for. Angels tend to blend the paint into a nice dripping out of the barrel effect.

[Dragoon]

I have owned an Angel in the past (a 2000 dark). But unless you have owned and used both for a good amount of time, how is it possible to really know which breaks more. It's hard to be knowledgeable and impartial on this vote.

Douglas

[Toxic Dave]

liigod;

Well since I used pretty much nothing but hellfire and Imperial both super fragile paint through nothing but angels in the past two years, as did a majority of my team, all without very much chopping your theory that angels "blend it into a nice dripping out the barrel effect" is incorrect. In fact Ground Zero won 2 major series championships using that exact combo.....it must not be too bad.

dave/ toxic/ gzs

[mac2k4]

i can't beleive this thread, good god, breaking paint has almost all to do w/ the paint to barrell match.
i have angels, impulse and shocker, lowpressure cocckers, stock cockers and no, the lowpressure doesn't make it break less, or shoot farther, or anything.
i've shot paint that was really thin(hellfire, ultra evil) through angels shockers, impulses, and even black dragons and it all shoots the same, but barrell and paint matching will effect alot, like trying to shoot medium paint out of a small bore barrell( you'll get breaks)

i'm dave, if angels are that bad, well i guess theres a lot of stupid people'eh? no gun is "better" than another its all preference.

[marc]

when i had my impulse, the stock barrel was to big of a bore and the paint would fall right down it. Then i got a freak. I only had the impulse with the freak for like 1 month, and i didnt notice any ball breaks

[Richter]

we noticed in chicago nppl that using thin shelled pmi evil advantage that our angels did not like the paint. We broke alot down the barrel. Our frontman with an impulse did not break a ball down the barrel.
i have also notice during pactice days when angels seem to be breaking paint but his impulse does not break paint down the barrel. I especial notice it this last december('01) when we went out to Grand Island NE to play with Poorman and some guys from warped. They were shooting thin shelled JT paint when it was a little cool outside. I notice a they had a few breaks down the barrel, Some people were sqeegeeing after a game. (all shooting angels) Our guy with the impulse though,... not a break.

[Richter]

we noticed in chicago nppl that using thin shelled pmi evil advantage that our angels did not like the paint. We broke alot down the barrel. Our frontman with an impulse did not break a ball down the barrel.
i have also notice during pactice days when angels seem to be breaking paint but his impulse does not break paint down the barrel. I really notices it this last december('01) when we went out to Grand Island NE to play with Poorman and some guys from warped. They were shooting thin shelled JT paint when it was a little cool outside. I notice a they had a few breaks down the barrel, Some people were sqeegeeing after a game. (all shooting angels) Our guy with the impulse though,... not a break. He shot some Jt paint taht ed gave him and diablo blaze for the day.

I am not one to judge what the breaks were from, Many of mine were from outshooting my rev on my angel. Also our front guy doesn't hose paint like myself. He usally snap shoots.

hope this helps

[pugsley]

tom i like ur guns....oh this wont break paint ever, remember u said that tom..at ccp about a month ago? yea u do...i grabbed ur gun(anti chop eye)i started shooting slow..like 3 a sec then i was like ok then stopped shooting then got ready and started rippin and the 5th ball broke then so did 6th and it kept breaking.....haha u should have seen toms face....tom in the challenge cup video u see me kill everyone in a 1 on 5 and hang the flag with an emag i like them but if u want someone to really test ur guns.ask me i test guns to the limit and i know alot about how electronics work i know how to program lcd's...i know alot...and if u really want someone to test your guns...email me at grandisone@yahoo.com.....i dont live too far from agd..i live in schaumburg...lmk...because i think i can help with your gun developments...and i can give u alot of feed back on ur guns...i love mags and i think u would find it useful to have me test ur guns

[pugsley]

my angel never breaks paint..its pugslafyed it rips...it is all the barrel selection u choose

[magic55]

one of my teamates has an impulse and the other has an angel and neither one breaks paint. they both preform very well on it just not as well as my matrix:D

[MINIMAGMAN]

well look at it from a technical point of view, i am not an expert so feel free to correct me.
IMPULSE-runs on very low PSI, which is why you can use C02 on it, because c02 has to be over 180 psi so it could freeze. Impulse with its low PSI input usually pinches balls and eliminates ball breakage in the breech with its vision eye. so the only problem with it if it chops balls, is its barrel.
ANGELS- i dont know much about these, i have shot them, and i think we can all say you cant chop a ball by shortstroking an angel, but they can outshoot revvie's and cause a chop, but if it had the vision eye like the impulse does, it wouldnt do that, so the only problem after that would be the bolt chopping the balls or the barrel.

[[NA]WARLORD]

I broke a few balls in mine (Impulse) and it had a vision eye, it was due to the balls being slightly out of round. It only cuts down on ball breakage, not eliminate it, dont buy into the B.S.

[Toxic Dave]

The difference between higher and lower pressure guns is the likelihood not to break paint in the breech and through air pressure hittign the ball hard. Obviously a gun running at 170 psi is much less likley to chop a ball or burst it through the pressure hitting the ball, than say a gun running at 400-700 psi, it's just basic physics.

As for CO2 not freezing below 180 psi, I dunno about that but my Impulse is all frozen up after a good game, but the max flow reg keeps out all the pesky liquid, and allows me to shoot lots and lots of shots every game!

As for gun never breaking paint with a vision eye or ACE of any kind that is indeed bs. They won't chop, but never break, yeah whatever.

dave/ toxic performance/ gzs

[pugsley]

tom kaye will understand what i said

[lonsch]

pugsley--- i was there the day you shot the ace. im the one you took the gun from. the gun you shoot had the wronge bolt in it and was breaking paint in the barrel. it never choped a ball. i was shooting it all night. that gun had a few different problmes too like the angel detent ball comming off. and a few under charged batteries.

[RSUAVE911]

I am going to have to go with an angel, I played with both markers. The was very smooth shooting and it never broke in my barrel but I was using good paint. I have shot an impulse and it chopped twice in the game which isn't too horrible, but the angel was still better.

[MINIMAGMAN]

As for CO2 not freezing below 180 psi, I dunno about that but my Impulse is all frozen up after a good game, but the max flow reg keeps out all the pesky liquid, and allows me to shoot lots and lots of shots every game!

thats what i said exactly the max flow reg lowers the psi below 180 so there wont be any liquid in the gun, i didnt say anything about the tank itself, the tank might freeze up everything around it, but the gun itself would be workin fine.

i think tom is trying to find out here is something that has to do with the vision eye, because hes in the process of making it and wanted some insight on whether it helps or not, am i right tom?

[Murdaki11]

i dont really think it that breaks the paint. Its the way the air hits the ball. Like operating pressure. Bolt has t a lot to do with this. im sure this has been said.

[magsRus]

I'M WRITING IN CAPS BECAUSE I WANT THIS POST TO BE NOTICED

MY UNCLE BREAKS MORE PAINT IN HIS ANGEL LCD IN A GAME THEN I DO WITH MY VISION IMPULSE IN 4 MONTHS


ENOUGH SAID

[Phweedo.com]

Neither really imo.. I owned a Impy for 8months and didn't break a single ball, either in the breach or barrel. A few of my teammates use angels (2 lcd's and 1 led) and I don't even remeber the last time they broke paint.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by Toxic Dave
The difference between higher and lower pressure guns is the likelihood not to break paint in the breech and through air pressure hittign the ball hard. Obviously a gun running at 170 psi is much less likley to chop a ball or burst it through the pressure hitting the ball, than say a gun running at 400-700 psi, it's just basic physics.

As for CO2 not freezing below 180 psi, I dunno about that but my Impulse is all frozen up after a good game, but the max flow reg keeps out all the pesky liquid, and allows me to shoot lots and lots of shots every game!

As for gun never breaking paint with a vision eye or ACE of any kind that is indeed bs. They won't chop, but never break, yeah whatever.

dave/ toxic performance/ gzs

Not exactly, that is just another you guessed it SP myth. Air molecules are so small and light it wont break anything. If air pressure hitting the ball was the case the basic physics would tell us that if you picked ball up between our two fingers lightly it would crumble in our hands. Seemingly SP can't say anything true. It isnt physics it's carefully crafted deception.

Real physics is PV=nRT Pressure and volume are inversely proportional. If you double the volume of a container you half the pressure. And that increasing the volume to propell a ball in a low pressure gun will expose the ball to the same if not more air molecules than in a high pressure gun.

The real culprit is the G forces that the paintball encounters during accelertaion. AGD determined that low pressure guns have a longer pressure pulse (dwell) to allow slower flowing low air pressure to propell the ball to the desired velocity. Meaning instead of accelerating the ball at say 1000G's in the first 4 inches of the barel it accelerate the ball at 500 gs through 8 inches to acheive 300 FPS. That is true physics. The same effect can be achieved with a hypothetical 3000 psi gun if the pressure were released slow enough into the barrel. This is the reason behind the AGD powertube tip redesign a while back.

If you "gun dyno" a mag the in the barrel behind the ball pressure is actually less than 100 psi.

Dont say I didnt warn you about SP science, I have nothing against SP products, they work. But dont EVER EVER listen to thier reasoning. Historically they have been 100% wrong and probablity tells us that they will continue to be wrong. Its all part of thier low pressure high cost marketing strategy.

[Wat]

I played NEPL tournament paintball for 3 seasons. For 2.5 of them i ran an LED angel. Easily shot north of 20 cases. Never had a barrel break. I used the stock jacko then a 32 degree carbon fiber.

No barrel breaks...chops was a different story.

[Toxic Dave]

Butter;

The way I see it this; If I hit an object with 140 psi as opposed to 500 psi it will have less chance of being damaged. That's basic psyics, less force = less chance of my ball getting broken. You can figure out the size of N2 molecules if you want, but I KNOW that my Impulse breaks far fewer balls than my micromag. I suspect it has alot to do with the pressures contacing the ball, but you know what? it really isn't important to me what makes it happen, just that the results are good for me.

dave

[DaXtremeist]

watched an angel break paint down the barrel about 10 times. in 1 game using a Freak set. btw no flames cuz i have it on film. and the guy wich is on the team im on (Pure Adrenalin) even was pissed with the angel (bought me an impy after i saw that and hanet chopped in over a case of paint) had it since january 31'st

later

[Wat]

I have seen <insert any marker here> that <insert amazing, physics defying feat here>.

I have also seen <insert any marker here> that <choose 1 or more: chopped, hooked, broke, sliced, pureed> paint all day.

[MAGS own YOU]

My friend just got a used LCD Cut and Carved Angel. We wanted to test it to see if we could break a ball. I played 2 games with it, no chops. Everyone else played a few games with it. No breaks all day. The barrel looked like it had just been cleaned. The angel is definately my next gun. I thought the trigger on my gun was the shortest ever, NO! This trigger is the lightest ever. There are about 5-10 a angels at my field and about 15 impulses. I know my friend wont like me saying this, but they do break paint. They chop more than an angel and that is a fact. I think paint to barrel match would have to do with breaking down the barrel. Ive never broken down the barrel to this day, so im not sure what to even look for.

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by Toxic Dave
Butter;

The way I see it this; If I hit an object with 140 psi as opposed to 500 psi it will have less chance of being damaged. That's basic psyics, less force = less chance of my ball getting broken. You can figure out the size of N2 molecules if you want, but I KNOW that my Impulse breaks far fewer balls than my micromag. I suspect it has alot to do with the pressures contacing the ball, but you know what? it really isn't important to me what makes it happen, just that the results are good for me.

dave

Ok you didnt get it... thats not what im saying... please take time to read this post there is alot of concepts and information so please bear with me.

What im saying is low pressure tends to break less balls BUT not because of the reason you or smart parts provide.

Its not the physycal force of the molecules hitting the ball. You realize by the time the air even hits the ball in an automag volume has increased so much by the bolt moving forward along the powertube piston and filling the void behind the ball that it is only 60 psi at the breach? And residual pressure is less than 50 psi? These are measured results, quoting TK's Gun Dyno... Thats lower than an impulse.

Its also basic physics. PV=NRT. In an automag you have a fixed volume chamber charged at 350 psi. When the gun fires it seals off additional air. As the bolt moves forward the volume of the chamber expands to around twice its size. According to the ideal gas law. This means that pressure drops to half, 175psi. Operating pressure is already lower than an impulse before the air even hits the ball. As air moves through the bolt and fills the void behind the paintball the pressure drops even further.

There are alot more factors than low pressure that causes ball breakage. We cant just say oh it breaks less paint its gotta be low pressure, no there are a thousand more variables to consider.

Low pressure's advantage isnt the low pressure "impact". Its the moderate acceleration curve it provides. Im saying if high pressure was realeased slowly it would mimic the effect of the low pressure acceleration curve.

Bottom line: Pressure "impacting" the ball is NEGLIGABLE, however acceleration curve properties of HP vs. LP are SIGNIFICANT.

The energy of a high volume low pressure blast of air is equivelent to a lower volume high pressure blast of air. If it wasent low pressure guns wouldent be able to achive high velocities.

[lonsch]

butterfingers

you are right on track about everything you have said except that the mag has peak pressure of 90psi not 60. all guns have peak pressure below 100 psi because a ball will not make it out of a gun if the peak pressure is above ~100psi. so if you want to think of it like that then all guns are "low pressure" guns in a way.

[mac2k4]

i know what your sayin, and just tryin to prove a point, but to any body else that thinks a lowpressure gun is goin to make them play better, well they're wrong. if ya have a viking, angel, angel IR3, impulse or definat, all of them are high end guns and are built well enough that ya can pick up all of them, get the best FEEL for them and shoot them and be just as good, as if ya picked up a shocker, excalibur, cocker that felt the same.....

just play your game and don't worry.

[AGDmagman2001]

(Splat Max posting again under bro's name)
Every gun has there myths.

Cocker=breaks alot
Mag=chops
Bushy=blender(I shot a case of cheap, low grade field paint in mine, and not a single chop, and just one break in the last game)
Same applies with the impulse

and the list goes on, the only way to truly know is to either own one yourself and know what your doing, or know someone who you know knows what there doing.
The way alot of myths start is by people who don't know what there doing
Cocker-messes with everything, doesn't know what there doing
Mag-short strokes, doesn't know the trigger
Bushy-not using a rev in some cases, and outshooting the rev, can happen with all electros, and some mechanics

[mykroft]

Toxic Dave: The actual energy hitting the ball depends on valve dwell, given the same valve dwell, the same pressure hits the ball for a given velocity whether you are shooting an Excalibur@90psi or a Spyder at 800(assuming paint-to barrel match is the same). The operating pressure of a gun affects bolt force more than anything. That's why LP guns chop less. Only very high bolt force blows up balls in the breach. Non-foamy Mags sometimes do this with brittle pant, but blowbacks using stiff springs & heavy strikers are the usual culprits.

The Angel is worse for barrel breaks, given a stock barrel. They're about identical whith a Freak kit. This is mostly due to the Angel using a tighter bore barrel, and the step bore being tighter as well (IIRC The Infinity's tip has an id of around .698 vs an AA's .700)

[FactsOfLife]

Never broke a ball in my Vision Imp. Ever.

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

Angel, see my angel was on 323 FPS when i first got it. And i was to lazy to get the allen key set and lower it. And i filled the hopper up and started ripping on the trigger... shot just as good. Was extremely loud. But still shot good. No breaks on 4 month old team colors.

[Misery Machine]

Why would anyone go all the way back to February and dig this up?:confused:

[OldSchoolMag]

Seriously. I'm sorry, but I must follow through with our new rule - he/she who evokes ye olde thread gets the pie in ye face.

Ah, crap, I'm out of pie. Oh well.. next time, evil doers...

OSM

[Misery Machine]

I like pie!!!:D

[Will Wood]

WTF is with all the resurected threads?

[cris8762]

mmmmmmmmm.....pie:D

[rx2]

I ddidn't even notice the date that it was started. This revival of dead threads things really messes with things.