Simple Leak Question

[Aslan]

I cleaned my gun up two nights ago and realized that when I pulled the trigger and held it, the gun would leak for about a second or two. It doesn't leak at all when the trigger is not pulled...and doesn't continue to leak for anything more than a second or two...definitely not a bad leak.

I have a classic valve, Level 10 installed. I've been seeing no performance issues...the only thing I've noticed is that the velocity is a little inconsistent when I go to chrono...+/-10...a little more inconsistent just after I adjust it down or up.

I don't think the leak is anything serious...the Mag has been performing great...just thought it was a little odd and thought it might be a simple fix.

Thanks! :clap:
:cheers:

[ta2maki]

Leaks when holding the trigger down, means the orings on the top of the on/off are leaking. Replace those and you should be set.

[Aslan]

thanks!

I've actually been thinking about dropping my retro valve on/off in it to see how it will perform. Maybe I can kill the leak problem and upgrade the reactivity in one move. :)

[Thotograph]

Dont think you'll get any reactivity out of that b/c reactive trigger is caused by the ReTro using gas at full input pressure to recharge the valve. The on/off pushes the sear (and your finger) back with force b/c the air expands as it rushes through the on/off. That's why the RT and X-valves have a tendency to heat up after a long string. The classic valve recharges with regulated gas and thus no reactivity can be achieved. It should, however, make the pull a little lighter.

Sounds like the reg seat could be swapped out as well... that is most likely whats causing the inconsistentcy over the chrono. Goodluck!

[Aslan]

Well, tonight I took the On/Off out and replaced it with the Retro Valve On/Off. The o-rings on the classic on/off seemed fine. I changed a couple of the on/off o-rings on the retro valve for good measure.

When I put it all back together I noticed 4 things:
1) The trigger did seem a little more reactive, a little lighter. Maybe it was just lighter and I imagined the reactivity.
2) The leak when I held the trigger back was still there...but a little shorter, maybe less than a second or a second.
3) As soon as I started to pull the trigger...it would start to leak. If I just sort of applied pressure to the trigger but didn't quite pull it half-way...it would leak a little bit...sounded the same as the leak when the trigger was completely pulled back.
4) I heard a faint leak down the barrel with the trigger forward.

:( :mad: :(

Now, I haven't messed with my level 10 o-ring since installing in late 2005. I know that most often you will need to move down a carrier over time...so I thought I'd take the opportunity to do that. I went from 1 dot/1 groove down to 1 groove.

Put everything back together...didn't hear the leak anymore. :clap:
There is still a very, very faint air sound...I guess you could call it a leak...but I think every marker I've ever owned has had that sound so I'm not too worried about it.

I pulled the trigger back all the way and the leak was now down to like a half second or less and I didn't seem to get that little leak when I first applied pressure to the trigger. :)

I'm still a little intrigued about these little leaks...but overall I think it's working good. Do you think by switching on/offs I might need to modify the sear lever...not sure if it's called the "sear lever"...it's the adjustable arm of the sear that the trigger pushes... :ninja:

I will keep an eye on it next time I have a chance to chrono it. I already replaced the reg seat, but maybe I need to go in there and lube it or clean it or something.

Thanks!

[athomas]

You don't need to adjust the trigger rod length.

A leak that occurs when you start to touch the trigger is an indication that there are too many shims in the powertube. Remove 1 or 2. If you are still getting leakage, then use the next smaller carrier size with the same oring.

Level 10 bolts will sometimes allow a brief leakage to be heard when you first hold the trigger back after you fire a shot. There is residual pressure remaining in the chamber but not enough to seal against the oring, especially if it is loose fitting. The pressure usually bleeds down or seals itself in a second or two. This is quite common.

[Aslan]

A leak that occurs when you start to touch the trigger is an indication that there are too many shims in the powertube. Remove 1 or 2. If you are still getting leakage, then use the next smaller carrier size with the same oring.


What's weird is I only have two shims in the power tube. I thought you had to have both shims. Should I go with 1?

[athomas]

You don't "need" any shims. The shims allow you to shorten the distance that the bolt has to move before it can vent air and reset in the event there is a blockage. In your setup, the distance may already be short. By adding shims you may be putting the oring too close to the vent hole which is allowing periodic leaking because the bolt and oring don't always sit perfectly in the same position every time.

[lunatickyle007]

take out all the shims and go a carrier size down

[Aslan]

Thanks!

I'll have to give that a try. I never heard of using less than or more than 2 shims...I thought they were necessary to the way the Level 10 works. I'll see if it's still leaking when I touch the trigger and try to remove a shim...then 2...then maybe drop another carrier size.

One thing I might have did when I went down a carrier size this last time was I might not have used the same o-ring. I'm not sure, but I think when I took it out of the power tube the o-ring flew off somewhere and I just grabbed another one. Maybe...I don't know. :confused:

[athomas]

If you used a different oring, then you should resize your carrier. Without any shims installed, use the largest carrier that doesn't leak.

I wouldn't bother even using shims unless you have a problem with the bolt not resetting after a failed shot. If the bolt chuffs (vents) at all, or if the gun shoots, then you don't need the shims. Bolt stick following a shot isn't fixed by shims.