Rocking Trigger Frame For Mags

[G Squat]

So my boss is getting a waterjet in May. I'll have it available for use at any time. I was considering trying to make good on an idea I've had for quite some time. If you look at it you'll se its actually quite simple. I wouldnt be able to mass produce the full product, but I could come up with a bunch of rough blanks that would still need to be machined, drilled, tapped and so on. I just drew something up on paint real quick. Lemme know what you think or if its :tard: .

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l25/gsquat/Rockingtriggerdesign.jpg

[MANN]

are you wanting to make it mechanical or electric? You should look at the proline autoresponse frame if you are making it mechanical. That frame fired twice. Once upon pulling the trigger, and once with the release. As far as electrical I have seen spyder rocker frames converted into spydermags.

Have you considered pump kits?

[bentothejam1n]

i think i remember pneumagger saying that the waterjets dont have very tight tolerances... so it might be hard to get a quality product out

[G Squat]

It would be mechanical. Auto response triggers arent allowed at most fields. That type of firing mode is illeagal. It depends on what type of head you get on your waterjet. Even if, they're going to be rough. You'll have to clean it up will some milling around all the edges. Me, I'll just do everything by hand to make my prototype. I think it'd fire pretty fast though. Especially with a ULT.

[olinar]

the auto response is outlawed because one complete trigger pull and release equals 2 shots. same with the roching trigger from spyder. this would have the same problems i would assume.

[G Squat]

No, that is not the problem the rocking trigger for the spyder had. The prob with that one was that it has two switches, which is outlawed. This is mechanical. Wouldnt have a problem there. And it takes a pull for every shot to be fired. I'll have one done by June or July. I'll make a video and see if it brings any interest. Oh, I forgot to mention one of the coolest things would be that the trigger needs nothing but the sear to return it back to center position. The arms on the sear would balance everything out.

[olinar]

didnt know that, well then this is a great idea. is the prototype going to look just like the one pictured? i would opt for a 90 degree since it would be easier to walk it. but its just a prototype. so lets have you get it working before design ideas are thrown out right.

[viper-mayhem]

So my boss is getting a waterjet in May. I'll have it available for use at any time. I was considering trying to make good on an idea I've had for quite some time. If you look at it you'll se its actually quite simple. I wouldnt be able to mass produce the full product, but I could come up with a bunch of rough blanks that would still need to be machined, drilled, tapped and so on. I just drew something up on paint real quick. Lemme know what you think or if its :tard: .

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l25/gsquat/Rockingtriggerdesign.jpg
One of the biggest problems with walking triggers is having a small trigger guard, even in electro's. I like how big you have it in the drawing. If this works, let me know and I will probably buy one from you.

PS. I just noticed that you have 2 rods on the same arm. This would cause a push/pull effect which would cancel each other out.

[G Squat]

In reguard to trigger guard room.

1: There will be no hinge pin on the sear meaning I can set the trigger farther back in the frame leaving plenty of room in the guard. One of my hopes in making some of these is to make them fit with classic rails as well.

2: If the bull trigger is used (the one that looks like bull horns) your fingers wouldn't leave the realm of the trigger anyway. I see this trigger enabling someone to fire very fast. This trigger used with a ULT will make it feel twice as light.

The more I think about and work on this the more I'm considering making complete models. Need more input and responses.

P.S. The rods are not connected to the arm. They move back and forth.

[luke]

Your right about one thing, they are very fast.

http://www.lukescustoms.com/LCE-Rocking-1.JPG

[Ninjeff]

ive always been intrigued by the rocking triggers. never shot one, but i would like to. Im interested to see what comes of this. keep us updated.

[RRfireblade]

If it matters , def not legal.


Not withstanding , You'll need either alot of thro to keep it mechanical or it's going to be a fairly heavy pull with such a short fulcrum.

[matteusz]

I would love to get my hands on a couple of these in raw form. Once you have your design finalized and are ready to cut them let me know. You can shoot me a price and I will send you a deposit. I think something on the order of a modified response would be cool. A spring that would place tension on the sear and lighten the pull or something. Maybe a trip mechanism where the pull on each side of the trigger activates a pneumag setup. Now that would be wicked. I think the 90 degree frame would be more comfortable and could give you more room for the fulcrum length.

Also maybe stops above and below where the sear rods attach to the sear would allow them to move independently while still staying connected to the rod.

[turbo chicken]

Your right about one thing, they are very fast.

http://www.lukescustoms.com/LCE-Rocking-1.JPG

i hadn't seen this one yet ... that body looks hot with the frame ... should be in MOTM

[G Squat]

If it matters , def not legal.


Not withstanding , You'll need either alot of thro to keep it mechanical or it's going to be a fairly heavy pull with such a short fulcrum.

With a ULT it would obviously be no heavier than any other gun with a ULT. Not even because of the placement of the hinge in the trigger. I'm thinking of attaching rollers to the end of the rods to give it a smoother feel. And why wouldnt it be leagal. Theres nothing illeagal about a rocking trigger frame if its mech. So long as its one pull one shot which it is.

[RRfireblade]

With a ULT it would obviously be no heavier than any other gun with a ULT. Not even because of the placement of the hinge in the trigger. I'm thinking of attaching rollers to the end of the rods to give it a smoother feel. And why wouldnt it be leagal. Theres nothing illeagal about a rocking trigger frame if its mech. So long as its one pull one shot which it is.


Look at the pivot point on the trigger , it's half the size of the average double. Even with a ULT , mech mags (w/ double triggers) are not practically walkable. It's arguable that it is walkable at all depending on setup but regardless just barely even if so.

And the long standing rule on trigger operation makes that illegal period.

One "full swing" of that trigger thru it's full travel will produce 2 shots. The fact that is stops on the middle of the swing doesn't change that. It's nothing more than a response trigger that stops in between the first and second shots. ;) The topic of rockers goes 'way' back. It's well covered. :)

[G Squat]

So you're saying its illeagal because of where it hinges. Because on any other marker, you can pull the trigger at the top let it come back to starting position and then at the bottom of the trigger. Thats not illeagal. On the rocking frame one pull equals one shot. You can pull the top of the trigger or the bottom. If you continuously pull just the bottom of the rocking trigger you still only get one pull one shot. Thats why I'm REALLY not seeing how this could in any way be illeagal. The only difference between this and standard trigger frames for mags is the trigger hinge placement. There will be no bounce and no more than one shot every time you pull either the top or the bottom of the trigger. Just like on any other marker.

[viper-mayhem]

Look at the pivot point on the trigger , it's half the size of the average double. Even with a ULT , mech mags (w/ double triggers) are not practically walkable. It's arguable that it is walkable at all depending on setup but regardless just barely even if so.

And the long standing rule on trigger operation makes that illegal period.
Unlike walking a flatblades where you fingers are only tapping the trigger, rocker triggers are good for keeping constant pressure on both the top and bottom, hence, "rocking". As far as legality, some one needs to tell these refs that they are illegal because I seem to go up against them quite often on speedball fields.

[RRfireblade]

So you're saying its illeagal because of where it hinges. Because on any other marker, you can pull the trigger at the top let it come back to starting position and then at the bottom of the trigger. Thats not illeagal. On the rocking frame one pull equals one shot. You can pull the top of the trigger or the bottom. If you continuously pull just the bottom of the rocking trigger you still only get one pull one shot. Thats why I'm REALLY not seeing how this could in any way be illeagal. The only difference between this and standard trigger frames for mags is the trigger hinge placement. There will be no bounce and no more than one shot every time you pull either the top or the bottom of the trigger. Just like on any other marker.


I'm only going to explain it one more time , I really have no personal interest in you getting it or not so ;) . . .

Start with the trigger at rest , pull it in any one direction till it hits a stop , fires one shot , now from that 'stop' position move the trigger all the way to the other farther most stop position . . . . viola , another shot. That's 2 shots per one full swing of the trigger.

That's how the rule is interpreted , always has , rocking triggers go back a long ways. It's nothing new now nor was it when Kingman ripped it off.

Whether or not any given feild enforces any given rule at any time has ALWAYS been up to the field.

There's nothing in the rules of 'paintball' that says any field owner has to abide by any rules NPPL , NXL ,PSP or otherwise. Most do what they want based on thier customer base. That's business. Almost every field I've ever been to (talking hundreds at least) is in violation of 'rules' , standards and guidelines and in MANY areas , Federal and otherwise. Big shock I know. :)

[Beemer]

Almost every field I've ever been to (talking hundreds at least) is in violation of 'rules' , standards and guidelines and in MANY areas , Federal and otherwise. Big shock I know. :)

Not to some. Reminds of Chinese Down Hill from Hotdog the Movie. First the Rules..........

[buzzboy]

Not sure if anybody has said this yet but this trigger seems like it would work really well with the RT effect going. It would almost be bouncing it into itself double that of a regular RT effect.

And about E-Rocking triggers. They are way cool. A guy at our field shows up sometimes with one and it is just fun to shoot. I would never buy one but if you hold the gun with one finger on the backside of the trigger frame you can tap the trigger lightly and it will go into full auto bouncing the two contacts back and forth. It shot fast enough to uncock the spyder.

[G Squat]

I'm only going to explain it one more time , I really have no personal interest in you getting it or not so ;) . . .

Start with the trigger at rest , pull it in any one direction till it hits a stop , fires one shot , now from that 'stop' position move the trigger all the way to the other farther most stop position . . . . viola , another shot. That's 2 shots per one full swing of the trigger.

That's how the rule is interpreted , always has , rocking triggers go back a long ways. It's nothing new now nor was it when Kingman ripped it off.

Whether or not any given feild enforces any given rule at any time has ALWAYS been up to the field.

There's nothing in the rules of 'paintball' that says any field owner has to abide by any rules NPPL , NXL ,PSP or otherwise. Most do what they want based on thier customer base. That's business. Almost every field I've ever been to (talking hundreds at least) is in violation of 'rules' , standards and guidelines and in MANY areas , Federal and otherwise. Big shock I know. :)

I appreciate the info and input. Thats why I started this thread. Reguardless I'm going to continue with my project. I've found that the way to best get things done is just to go ahead and do them. Times change and paintball certainly changes. Perhaps this is the beginning of one of those changes. Change is fueled by support and encouragement. We'll see what happens. Even if, its not a big deal. And yes, I know how fields are with their rules. I help run one. So by what you said even, it deosnt really matter whether or not this is leagal. Fields will allow it anyway.

[RRfireblade]

So by what you said even, it deosnt really matter whether or not this is leagal. Fields will allow it anyway.

That was why I said . . .


If it matters , def not legal. :)

I have fields here that are semi only still and others that allow RT triggers and never check for bouncing electros. It's a crap shoot at what they allow , that's a MAJOR problem in paintball and one of the things hurting it big time. It's not a good thing when parents and young players are afraid to play at the place that 'should' be the safe place to play but , that's a whole other discussion for people who actually care ( Me and Beemer apparently :D)

I sure wouldn't let that stop you from making it if you want. Sure didn't stop Kingman and they claimed to invent the dang thing :tard: . Not like you ever or will ever see any of them in serious tourny play. ;) You only need one finger nowadays.

I have a couple A/R trigger frames , they're fun to turn heads on the rec ball field , so is a nicely sweetspotted single trigger RT out running a Halo. :D Makes the electro kids crap their pants thinking your the old slow guy with the museum peice out on the field and then a hail storm of hurt comes their way . . . one handed. :wow:

Have fun. :cheers:

[d4m4don3]

Kingman didn't invent the rocking trigger, they licensed it from Leon Styles owner of Splat Factory in Brea, CA.

[RRfireblade]

Kingman didn't invent the rocking trigger . . .

Uh yeah. Thought we were clear on that but thanks for the recap. ;)

[hmudd13]

Your right about one thing, they are very fast.

http://www.lukescustoms.com/LCE-Rocking-1.JPG

How'd you do dat? :tard:
I'd like to see some info, or pics. Pretty plz. :D

[mostpeople]

I dont think it would work personally... and here is why.


Your rods attach to the sear very close to each other, and the pivot point of the sear is way up above them both. To work the way you want, it would have to attach around the pivot point.


nice idea though

[p_aint_fun]

How'd you do dat? :tard:
I'd like to see some info, or pics. Pretty plz. :D


Here's the only picture I have of it. You'll have to get Luke to tell you how he did it.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/415276.jpg


i hadn't seen this one yet ... that body looks hot with the frame ... should be in MOTM


I entered it once but it didn't even make the final vote... :cry:

[G Squat]

I dont think it would work personally... and here is why.


Your rods attach to the sear very close to each other, and the pivot point of the sear is way up above them both. To work the way you want, it would have to attach around the pivot point.


nice idea though

:confused: I'll say it one more time... THE RODS ARE NOT ATTACHED TO THE SEAR... read all posts before posting, :mad:

[TwilightG]

I know I'm digging this one up but I found it while searching for some Spydermag stuff...

Did you ever get a chance to fabricate this? Did it work? Fail? Still working on it?
Although there was a little bit of arguing in the thread, it still looked really interesting.

[snoopay700]

What's the point? a double is better, with a rocking trigger, the first shot is shorter but every consecutive shot is twice as big, so there's no advantage to one, actually more of a disadvantage.