Chopping balls (lvl 10, ult)

[Cleric]

Ok well, aside from my old 68 classic mag, I have no experience with other ones. I just bought a new to me one...it has X-valve, lvl 10, and ult. It was already set up how the previous owner was using it...i just gassed it up for the first time and it went pretty good except a few ball breaks. Mainly if i squeeze the trigger lightly it will do a 2-3 round burst and this is where the balls break...I'm guessing the problem is most likely too many shims...but I'm not certain. Also when just firing without balls if i held the trigger lightly i could get it to go auto on its own at like 15+bps indefinitely.

[flyingpootang]

Tune the ULT first.

For the ULT remove 1 shim at a time until the full auto stops.

For the L10 place a squigee 1/4" away from the front of the bolt and fire it. If it sticks forward add 1 shim until it resets. Just a note if you have more than 3 shims in total you may need to go to the next loosest carrier that dosen't leak while still using the same carrier o-ring (white)

All of my mags use a total of 2-3 L10 shims each

[Cleric]

ok theres only 1 shim in there, the bolt stops when i put something in there, and it slowly goes back...i gan hear a lot of gas leaking and it takes like 1 full second for it to go back

i read somewhere that you need at least 2 shims in there is this right or is it another problem?

[Cleric]

the gun never came with a ULT kit, just what was installed, i can buy a new one because theyre not that expensive

[flyingpootang]

Add 1 shim to the L10 at a time until the bolt resets. If you don't have a carrier kit you can only buy what you need from AGD. Call Roman and talk to him he'll advise you of the most common carriers. Did you remove one of the ULT shims yet to cure the full auto issue?

Also the ULT spacers are about 1/2 the size of L10 spacers. They are good to use for fine tunning...

[Cleric]

there was only 1 shim in there i just took it out and the gun still went full auto, but when i first pressed the trigger it wouldnt do a quick burst, but the power tube was also leaking

this is what was inside

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5469/0330072135vj0.jpg

should i buy another ULT kit?

[lasrsktr]

there was only 1 shim in there i just took it out and the gun still went full auto, but when i first pressed the trigger it wouldnt do a quick burst, but the power tube was also leaking

this is what was inside

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5469/0330072135vj0.jpg

should i buy another ULT kit?


thats not the ULT...

the ULT is the on/off... you were looking at the lvl 10..

[Cleric]

ok nvm im learning, the ult has 4 shims in it, im going to put one in the lvl 10 and try it out

[Cleric]

ok that fixed it, i have just 2 in the ult now, i will try 3 and see how it is, but im low on air and the powertube is leaking...i need to lube it up

[Cleric]

actually there were 5 shims in the ult lol

[Cleric]

ok with any less than 3 shims in the on/off it will only fire once then stop, with 5 or 4 in the on off it will break balls, with 3 in the on/off and 1 in the lvl 10 in will break balls, with 2 in the lvl 10 and 3 in the on off (the way i have it now) it will not break balls, but i can not fire fast, if i squeeze too fast the bolt will not come back all the way and it will make sort of a puttering sound, i can consistantly shoot it slow at like 3 times a second, but any faster it wont work, and the bolt wont re seat unless i completely let go of the trigger and wait for it


i did the carrier tests, the carrier and oring fit good and there are no leaks with no shims at all, with 2 shims a ball wont break but on normal firing the bolt doesnt go back properly...could it be a spring problem, i actually have 1 spring left over from my old mag, but also on these tests im not changing velocity, i have no way to chrono my gun unless i goto a field...



i plan on playing next weekend but if i need a parts kit i will have to order it as nothing by agd is for sale within a 24 hour drive from where i live...


i can goto a store and chrono the gun properly, right now if the bolt is not resetting correctly but everything else is fine should i just turn up the velocity?















edot: the spring that came with it was just the stainless coloured one, but i have an old spring from lvl 7 kit that is black and about 1/2 inch longer

[Cleric]

ok 1 more comment...

im low on air, only 1000psi, dont know if that makes a difference but the gun also stops firing when i try go fast, and if i turn up the velocity it will come back but it just has the same problem even with the velocity all the way up...

does this mean its a spring problem? I might try cut the biggest spring i have to make it a little smaller than the other one...either way I'm going to buy a spring/carrier/oring kit, i just want to get it working for next weekend













edit: with a weaker spring it was getting even more chuggish and wouldnt set the bolt back quickly with a squeegie in there, so i added another shim, now its better than it has been before, will fire decently fast no problems but if i try as fast as i can it will still get chuggish, and it will reset the bolt after coming into contact with something fairly quickly...a little less than half a second...how long should it take?

[Cleric]

please can anyone help...i need to running by friday

do i need a new carrier, new orings, more shims in the lvl 10, more shims in the ult, new spring?

[Russ]

1st off, you need more air to continue testing

[athomas]

edit: with a weaker spring it was getting even more chuggish and wouldnt set the bolt back quickly with a squeegie in there, so i added another shim, now its better than it has been before, will fire decently fast no problems but if i try as fast as i can it will still get chuggish, and it will reset the bolt after coming into contact with something fairly quickly...a little less than half a second...how long should it take?It should reset almost instantly. If it takes too long to reset or if it is slow resetting after a shot, then your carrier is too tight. Use the next larger one with the same oring you are using now. Make sure your bolt spring is fresh, because that can cause problems too. Do all your testing without level 10 shims in place. Most of the time you won't ever need them anyway. Once you find the proper size carrier that is 1 size smaller than the one that leaks, you will be good to go. Then you can properly adjust your ULT for best performance. Increase the number of shims in the ULT until the valve goes full auto or gets very touchy on the trigger. Remove a ULT shim from the number used and your mag should work very well.

Remember, ULT shims are 0.005" thick and level 10 shims are .010" thick, so be aware of that when you are making your adjustments incase you get them mixed up.

[Cleric]

damnit i was just given the gun with shims already in it, i do not know the sizes...

like i said when i first got it there were 5 shims int eh ULT and 1 shim in the lvl 10, but it was chopping balls

i will have to order a shim/carrier/spring pack as none came with my gun



and before i buy the carriers i need to know which size mine is...it has just 1 groove on it, the next one smaller has the dots is there any smaller then that one?

[flyboy]

The one smaller is one dot only and there is a no dots, no lines too I believe. A dot represents a 1/2, a line is 1 whole, so 2 lines and a dot is size 2 and a half.

[Cleric]

ok, i ordered 2 springs, all the other carries, shim pack and oring pack...

anyone have advice on how i can get my gun to work this weekend, because the parts probably wont come in this week.

the only way i can ge the gun to fire good is by having it chop balls, so i might just have to do that carefully

[Sreetpunk00]

you could check if the detent is need of replacement ,and check if is screwed in to much i used a bit of teflon tape to adjiust the depth of it in the breach

[Cleric]

no i tried putting a ball half way in the breach and firing, it was breaking

[Cleric]

Ok, well 1 shim was .10 and the others were 0.05


I took them all out to find the right sizes, I put 4 0.055 shims on the ULT, 1 0.1 shim in the lvl 10 and another 0.05. With this setup the carrier is actually leaking slightly, but it comes and goes, with a lot of lube it goes away....the orings look very old anyway, so I will probably change them before i play...it wont chop balls and will fire at a decent 10bps ish before it starts to chug..this will be good enough to play on the weekend, and after that I can get it to work properly when the parts come in.

[flyingpootang]

If you have more than 2 shims in the L10 bolt you probably need to go to the next loosest carrier. With more than 3 shims it squishes the carrier o-ring and will give you a bolt stick or a slow return like your getting now. The carriers go in 1/2, 1 and 1.5 size etc....Make shure you use the same carrier 0-ring. If you use a new o-ring it will take @ 1000 rounds to break in and then you'll need to retune your L10 bolt.

L10 carriers:
Single dot = size 1/2
Single line = size 1
single line with a single dot =1 1/2
double line = 2
double line with a single dot = 2 1/2

1 L10 shim = 2 ULT shims

If your ULT for your trigger is going full auto remove 1 shim. Adding more shime will make your trigger lighter. Adding to many wil l= full auto....

Don't worry about being confused everyone started where you are now. Once your mag is tuned it will be very reliable. With the L10 you will not need eyes. I have no problem shooting 20bps with 0 chops..... :cheers:

[flyingpootang]

You don't need new springs. If your spring is lower than the tip of your bolt (uncompressed)then your spring is worn. Use the short gold spring. The red and longer gold spring will be better on the antichop, but the velocity may not be able to shoot below 300 fps. The spring and the velocity are like a seasaw. The longer the spring the more velocity is needed to unseat your bolt and your marker to fire.....