Hot Off the MILL! Custom Extreme!!

[AGD]

AO,

Manike and John Sosta spent the weekend with an expensive mill and an even more expensive software package and started fooling around with designs for the Extreme. What do you think for a first try??

AGD

[AGD]

And another view, note we finally milled the battery pack!

[virus]

droooooool.........

nice..... but what ever hapened to the shortend battery pack.... i myself would like to see those comeback.... esp fer us rec ballers

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

Yeah i would get an Extreme over the SLF... if they made the shortened battery pack...the cylander shaped one. But nice a$$ job who was the miller who did that. Hrrm Tom think you can work something out with white wolf air smith and get a Ripper Extreme done cause that would make my day... Finally looks of an angel...ball chopping concistensy of a intimidator...fast rof of the RT... nice trigger of and angel...and also lightness of a Feather Light LCD = Ripper Extreme Emag.

[deded]

whoa, that thing is crazy lookin'... I hope the xtremes are ready by the time you go on the california tour! I can't wait to see/buy one!

[Butterfingers]

Lots of intricate details... im impressed.

Ever try milling the AGD logo onto the battary pack... That would be amazing.

[irbodden]

That gun will look HOT in a nice glossy black. I can't wait for more. :D

[shartley]

Very interesting… I am sure some will like it. I personally don’t like it at all.

Reasons:

1) I think it looks like the milling was done just to do some milling. Nothing more.

2) The upper body milling looks like it was done with little thought, again.. leading to my first reason.

3) The design looks like it is there to just take up space.

4) It looks like cave art on a spaceship.. just does not match the feel of the marker.

Those are just my first impressions and should be enough.

I personally don’t care how expensive the milling was, or how MORE expensive the software is.. the milling looks bad.

I suggest if they used such expensive stuff, that they should have went and looked at a few actual firearms and the milling and scroll work done on them first. Then picked a theme, and went from there. This is just awful. And I LOVE The Marker.. so that says something.

But again, I am sure some will like it… but I think it ruins the marker. I would not buy it.

[zvanut]

looks cool but too much goin on for me personally

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

The only thing i dont like is the X-Men decal in the middle of the battery pack maybe like a swirl going from the outside to the in...that would look nice.

[MajorDamage]

Sweet! Looks like an X-Men gun! :D!

ENDO!

[Dubstar112]

I sort of get the impression that AGD was just demonstrating what could be done to the marker itself, not everyone is going to like that particular design. However there is a design that is customizable to fit the user

[BradPalooza]

A for effort
D for outcome

Sorry Tom, it looks overdone. Maybe you can get some of the artistic types on AO to come up with a mill pattern.
-Brad

[BlackVCG]

Have to go with Shartley on this one.

I'm into taking the actual shape of the gun and curving it and cutting it down to add dimension to the gun's overall appearance. This, however, looks like art drawn on the body and out of place, for that matter. Mill the battery pack in a similar manner as PTP did, but perhaps in a diagonal fashion. Doesn't fit my tastes at ALL.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

The design will never be to everyone's taste, but we haven't just milled the design. We have removed 5 ozs off the weight of the std Xtreme. We have also milled finger grooves into the front of the grip frame & Battery pack holder, milled an area behind the trigger for your finger, so that you can shoot with one finger only if you want to.
We've also milled the cut out where the valve slides in, on both sides now, and we're just finishing off a blade trigger.

[paintballrulzs]

I don't like it. The patterns r not very great...I would have a contest here on ao. Have someone create a "doable" xtreme

[OhMyAMoose]

I think it looks ok but I really dont like it.... Now I think that you should mill the ADG logo onto the gun (the lions and all that jive) but that might be hard.

[FooTemps]

mt neck just went limp.... that is an amazing job and my neck is getting a cramp because it can only lean over to one side...

[zads27]

Hm.. well I guess it was only a first attempt...
I really dislike that kind of milling.. most sucessful milling designs are all more fluid looking, something that matches contours and flows from one part to the next.. look at the SFL, ripper cocker bodies, among others...

I'm with shartley on this, the milling was done just to mill it. The lines and such break up the overall look of the marker..
The battery pack looks half tolerable, because they matched the milling to the shape, somewhat.. but honestly, I wouldn't pay extra for that milling to be done on my own battery pack.

[ThePatriot]

Nice gun, a very good demonstration of the milling capabilities for a mag....and in the future i hope to see as many different brands of E-Mags as there are cockers.

[Shaft]

It's ugly. Get rid of it. I offer my custom milled aluminum gun disposal service. Send it to Rick Brand....

[Manuel_FZR]

hmmm ... I think, it´s much too much!
The Xtreme is a straight marker, and the design of the milling should also be straight ... not so playfull like this one.
I think, you should keep the feel of the marker and mill it that way - straight line; perhaps with rough tribals; not so small little ones ...
Look at the SFL - i think it´s a verry good milling!
This milling design is not my taste at all ... :(
It´s like VCG said: art drawing witch doesn´t belong to the marker.

To the good Points:
The fingergrooves are nice - the idea of milling the baterypack is nice (but another design) - the reduction of the weight is nice (make it even lighter ;) ) - and the milling behind the trigger for the finger is verry nice!

But it´s the first try ... so keep on!

[deweasel697]

I like what you did with the finger grooves and the trigger frame, but the milling design is ugly. I wouldn't buy it.

[DYE-BaLLeR]

what are u talking about?!!! that gun is peeerrrrrddddyyyyyyyy

[tranman]

Personally i think all the little milled lines looks cheezy, its like using a multi thousand dollar machine to do engraving, it needs more bold lines and curves not just little lines carved into it. Look at free-flow cockers and others and the angels out there, none of them have little lines carved into them.

[FooTemps]

I like the lines but if they made the lines more bold and carved so it gives a better look.

[Cha0tic]

i do not like it that much. for a first try, not too bad. but there is alot of room for improvement.

when i look for a nicely milled gun, it should have the excess weight off of it. i think there is a lot that can still be shaved off. i think it would look better anodized, but the lines just aren't in my taste. i like a more simple look with thicker carvings. the thin lines are hard to clean.

[Major Ho]

Enh...Not really liking it.
How bout geometrical chunks taken out of it instead of lil lines carved here and there?
More of a smoothed out look.

Just constructive critism, not being a lil smart mouth punk or anything...

[Bluntman]

Yeah I agree with the pretty much everyone else here, if you're gonna mill it do more then etching get some nice more 3d designs going on.

[manike]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the responses. We've been reading them with great interest. One thing I can say for sure is that the pictures do not do the milling justice.

Let me talk you all through what we have done and the features we have included and then you can tell us what features you like or do not like.

The point of a coloured and carved is to do something that stands out. This one was designed to hint at the new ACE being available and was designed on an 'Aztec Evil Eye' them. The pattern is designed to attract your attention, which I think it has, so that you may have overlooked other details and all the thought that has gone into this. The pattern is just one very small part of this design so please be open minded enough to look past that if you do not care for the actual pattern itself. (Everyone here who can see it in the flesh loves it... go figure :) )

The Pattern you see on the sides is designed around the sear hole on one side and the X treme logo on the other to look Aztec and like the old style Evil eye logo's. There was definitely a theme to this look. Some will like it some won't. We were trying very hard NOT to copy anything else on any other gun. It's too easy to copy some-one elses ideas and much harder to be original. There are some I definitely don't expect to like it. The way the pattern lines flow is designed to complement the upward shape at the back of the gun. The hose hole slot has been cut from both sides and leads the shape of the pattern and you can see it 'glides up at the top unlike the sraight hole slot on the standard version.

There is not soo much milling done at the top of the body dome as it is very thin walled here and the last thing you want is to break through or have very soft areas. (unlike some guns!)

It's hard to see from the pictures but the side of the gun is waisted down so that the bottom of it is just the width of the grip frame. The idea of this body was to make it as light as possible but still keep aluminium covering the valve. We didn't want to expose the valve like the SFL as again we wanted to be different. We have removed a huge amount of material and weight but still kept as much ally over the valve visually so that you can have it annodised :) The body is about 9mm thinner on each side of the gun, and to remove all this excess material is why you have the sear thread having to stick up and which is what lead to that 'Aztec' Pattern. We have done a completely smooth version also without the pattern. It's more simplistic and has a 'feather' type look about it. Would you guys prefer to see something like that?

The body is sloped down at the top to lead more gently into the barrel. It's very difficult to do this because of the shape of the original extrusion and does look better in the flesh. Ok That's most of it on the body that I can remember...

The front battery pack... Well have you noticed how very few people have attempted to mill it? bceause it isn't actually that thick walled. The logo in the middle which leads to the pattern is the 'x in a circle' emblem for the Extreme. We could very easily do AGD or what I was going to do for all of us AO'ers is make a battery pack with the AO logo on! (this will probably be available for your standard E-mags if you want but bug John and Jackie for that not me :) ) The front of the battery pack has slight groove indents for your fingers (in direct response to someones's comments on this forum).

The grip frame has finger grooves at the front. It has three so that you can use the top two and have two fingers on the trigger, or you can use three on the frame to hold the gun and one on the bottom of the trigger to fire it. In effect giving you the option to shoot like a single trigger gun, this was again in direct response to Panzerr's wishes about how he wants to fire his gun. With the grip frame you can also see the frame is milled behind the lower part of the double trigger. This is again so you have another option of how to hold the gun and fire it. You can even put your finger behind the trigger to block it if you want (A friend of mine does that) or you can just rest your finger there so it is again like a single trigger frame. The back of the trigger frame is taken even thinnner than the ULE frames (as on the SFL) to make it smaller and more comfortable to hold. The button recesses have also been cut back in deeper. (I tried to fit LCD sticky grips on like all the fantasy E-mags but just couldn't quite do it :( )

Please go through all of the features above and make note of which ideas you like and which you do not. Constructive criticism is appreciated but please try and give reasons and say what you would like to see not just that you don't like it. As you can see from the features I listed, a lot of the design thought has originiated from ideas of people on here. I'm always open to new ideas and want you want to see :)

I am trying to implement some ideas from the Fantasy Mag competition (one reason I wanted to allow hand drawings...) I'm already trying to find an STL or surface file of a Lion to get a Body machined like that. if anyone can find one on the net I'd appreciate it :)

I've just finished making a prototype blade trigger. It is a bit fat though but feels great :) Not sure if it's a serious idea though because it doesn't look quite as cool as I wanted it too... Pics later maybe. It's 2.00am and I need some sleep!

manike

[manike]

Just a quick note to add to some responses while I was typing mine. The lines are not just etching. Where the pattern is there is already a huge amount of material removed in a complex 3d shape to take account of crucial areas such as the bolt retainer and the sear screw. Maybe I'll take some pics as compared to stock for you guys to see. I think we actually took over 1/5 of the weight of the ally parts off!

manike

[Bluntman]

Actually, ignore my first post, this is starting to grow on me. Just like this rash I had once...

Actually I think it could use some color.

[mrhooie]

I agree with shartley - it's done just to do it...

But then again - my tastes differ from most..

I'd like to see something different - but I'm glad it's being done

[headcase]

I like everything below the body it's self(the battery pack milling, the changes to the grip frame it's self)

I also like the ideas for the body milling, but not the milling it's self. The milling patterns infront of the breach and behind it don't really fit, they look like they were squeezed in. As cool as the removable feed is, in this case it hinders the milling, at least with this style.

But then again, I would like to see it in person, because sometimes pictures don't do a good job telling the tale. I also would like to see a pic with the valve installed to get a better idea of the back of the marker, but I have a feeling that I would also like to see the body that is above the valve removed.

If it isn't asking to much I would love to see pics from different angles(straight down from the top, head on, tail on, and comparisons to the "normal" extreme. And if you have a streamlined one, that too. :)

[Tunaman]

This has to be the most impressive marker I have ever seen. Good looks and all the features too. Good work guys. Puts a real "hurtin'" on the competition!. Can't wait to see it in action..:D :D :D

[Cha0tic]

i'm starting to see what your talkin about manike. one thing i'd like to see is the trigger guard milled a little. how about getting it off the battery pack?

[DrEvil]

pure evil.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Originally posted by Cha0tic
i'm starting to see what your talkin about manike. one thing i'd like to see is the trigger guard milled a little. how about getting it off the battery pack?

How exactly would you like the guard milled? The battery pack actually attaches to the front of the guard on a dovetail so we can't remove that part... We could remove the upright you see with space either side of it, but I think that may look a little strange you'd have a very large gap in front of the trigger... You would then still have joining 'strap' from the frame to the battery but you wouldn't see any front upright other than the battery pack... I'll do a wireframe image of it so you can see what I mean and if it's what you want :)

I'm working on getting some more pics for you guys. Tomorrow I will do some showing it in comparison to a standard body.

manike

[Cha0tic]

i think that having the gap between the guard and battery would make the marker look smoother. i just don/t like the look of the trigger guard, and an enclosed gap batween the 2. maybe its just me though :)

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Originally posted by headcase
The milling patterns infront of the breach and behind it don't really fit, they look like they were squeezed in. As cool as the removable feed is, in this case it hinders the milling, at least with this style.

You are 100% right. The modules actually make creating a very different style to stock quite difficult. That's why with this you can see how the body is thinner than the modules before and after the module but then sweeps back out to come inline with the module. It's very hard to get a design which will work with all the different modules you guys may want on your guns at some point :) I have to make the body shape come back to fit the modules for warp (left and right), vert and future (trapdoor? powerfeed?) styles of modules. It is limiting.

I gather you like the 3D shape but not the pattern lines :) no problem we can just not run the pattern program :) makes it even quicker to machine. Would you want an overall smooth look to it or do you want stylised shapes to it?

The thing is most people are used to straight cut mill jobs (like the SFL which is very simple really) because that is the easiest to create. Making something with a 'morphed' 3D surface that is smooth and tangential is actually much harder to make and rarer. But in many cases looks less to the uninformed eye.

The body without the pattern is very different to stock (huge amount machined away) but at first glance you'd not notice it so much (you would when you picked it up).

Give me lots of feedback guys and I'll put it into action tomorrow :)

manike

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

I just sent a pic of a blade trigger to Tom (AGD). Hopefully he will get them up tonight so I can see your feed back tomorrow (geeze it's 3.15am over here :) )

It's a real rough prototype guys and I'm already making changes (I'm not overly fond if it yet...). I know it's too wide (from the side) but that's because of the magnet. I have an idea to make it look slimmer which we will do tomorrow. I'd like to know what you think of the overall style/shape of the face once the pics are up.

thanks

manike

(who just realised he is posting under John 'the midget' Sosta's ID :) )

[FaSSt]

The milling looks great with two major exceptions:

1. The line-designs. Ahem. Just leave these off, although design on the battery cover is kind of cool in a Celtic rune kind of way - a fascinating little dichotomy when on a high-tech electronic gun. The ones on the body are atrocious.

2. The slot for the valve looks uninspired.

Great job on some of the details like the finger detents on the battery, and on the grip (Although I would still lile someone to come out with some type of Sticky-like wraparound grip.

Kudos also for shaving off excess weight, as my chief complaint about my Emag is its weight. If I were to buy an Angel, I would buy a Fly model for just this reason.

As soon as you guys get this weight reduction thing sorted out on the Extreme, I am ordering an ACE equipped one from AGD Europe.

[irbodden]

I like the milling, I supposed I'd like to see it colored for sure, but are you guys going to do any of the normal milling designs? It doesn't remind me of the fancy Ripper of Fishbone milling that is so popular among the Angel/Autococker crowd, I'd like to see of that.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

The battery pack is a toughy because of how thin it is in places.

I take it's the celtic style you don't like. If it was just the extreme symbol left raised would this be better? Would you rather something else on there? Raised letters AGD? You can only sensibly cut 0.5-1mm into the metal in this area! So I don't have much room to 3D sculpt.

Ideas would be appreciated.

Irbodden Fish bone milling is actually very easy, but I really dislike it. It's just parrellel cuts. And even harder to clean :)

Ripper milling is very cool, but I have no intention to copy someone else work if possible. This isn't supposed to remind you of ANY other gun (paintball or not). Ripper milling is also very time intensive and thus very expensive (350$) on an Angel IIRC.

manike

[adlar]

I have to say that at first I didn't likethe "aztec" milling on the upper body. Then I realized that it was actually milled in 3D like a terraced landscape and not just etched as previously pointed out. It is starting to grow on me.

What I think:

The trigger frame is nice. I like the finger grooves and the indentation below the sensor answers a lot of people's concerns about gripping with three fingers and shooting with one(although we still need a good grip panel).

The milling is unique and eye catching, although I would like to see what else you have dreamed up as I don't like this scheme as well as others I've seen on different markers(this is of course just my taste, the milling is quite nice, just a bit more exotic than I prefer).

I like the fact that you don't seem to mill away the groove that the valve guide slides into.

I would be interested in seeing a design that stacks the Emag body over the battery pack(perhaps integrating the battery pack into the body(like on an angel, the original sleek design of the angel was pretty attractive), although this would require redesigning the sear and a bunch of otherthings I'm sure.

Great job guys!

[zvanut]

would look better w/ AGD milled somewhere :)

[Gecko]

Manike
Looks awesome, How long did it take you to draw that desighn up?
Gecko

[headcase]

Originally posted by Manike pretending to be John Sosta, AGD Europe


I gather you like the 3D shape but not the pattern lines :) no problem we can just not run the pattern program :) makes it even quicker to machine. Would you want an overall smooth look to it or do you want stylised shapes to it?


I really do like the idea of the pattern lines, just no how they look in the picture. If you look at the 2nd pic, the milling on the battery pack looks very clean with good sharp lines, but look at the body and the lines just don't look clean, on the battery pack it looks like a ruler was used, and on the body it was done freehand. I know it wasn't done by hand, and the illusion is caused by the body shape not being flat, but still it is the way it looks to me.

But I do like the look, it is very unique, and I think that is what the marker needs. I really want to see one in person, as well as a anno'd one. It is different than anything else out there, but it supposed to be. If I understand this is going to be offered along with the normal Extreme body, like the C+C Angels are. So if doesn't have to please everyone, if you don't like it, buy a normal Extreme and have it milled to YOUR liking. Isn't that a big part of the Aluminum body in the first place, more customization options?

I say do the first run of, say 250 or so, in this style....then do a run of the streamlined "feather" version of it, and by the those 500 markers are sold, I'm sure you will have had plenty of time to think up a new idea.

[slateman]

John Sosta, AGD Europe:

First off, I would like to say that it looks good. Not exactly to my tastes but it looks good. I think I'd like something with lighting bolts and some color. Just a thought;)

A few questions:

1. What kind/type of milling machine are you using? Go ahead and list a name, I don't know much about them but my uncle is a machinists mate in the U.S. Navy so I'll run it by him.

2. What type of computer/operating system are you using? I'm gonna take a guess and say its a Mac.

3. What software is it?

4. Will there be any way that the customer will be able to design his/her own milling?

Thanks,
Steven

[irbodden]

Originally posted by John Sosta, AGD Europe
Irbodden Fish bone milling is actually very easy, but I really dislike it. It's just parrellel cuts. And even harder to clean :)


That's what an electric toothbrush is for.. duh ;)

[headcase]

I forgot to ask, what is milled into the upper part of the trigger guard....It looks like "SS001" is it just a way to keep track of which version of the milling this is?

[Rooster]

While I don't like the design, as aztec is not really my thing, I think what this really shows is the milling capabilities of AGD Europe better than most things could. Comparing the detail to alot of designs I've seen, this is far and away much more complex. Personally id like to see some firearm type designs.

[Miscue]

I'm in agreement here...


Originally posted by shartley
Very interesting… I am sure some will like it. I personally don’t like it at all.

Reasons:

1) I think it looks like the milling was done just to do some milling. Nothing more.

2) The upper body milling looks like it was done with little thought, again.. leading to my first reason.

3) The design looks like it is there to just take up space.

4) It looks like cave art on a spaceship.. just does not match the feel of the marker.

Those are just my first impressions and should be enough.

I personally don’t care how expensive the milling was, or how MORE expensive the software is.. the milling looks bad.

I suggest if they used such expensive stuff, that they should have went and looked at a few actual firearms and the milling and scroll work done on them first. Then picked a theme, and went from there. This is just awful. And I LOVE The Marker.. so that says something.

But again, I am sure some will like it… but I think it ruins the marker. I would not buy it.

[Gecko]

Slate

1) Knowing Manike's fetish for 5 axis milling guessing a big HOSS or similar CNC mill
2)Normal laptop running i'm guessing win 2K
3)That was done with Tebis. Manike works for them, head rep in England i think. Very high end cad/cam suite used mostly in europe
4) It wouldn't be cost effective to run custom desighn, your better off going to a local machine shop to do personal milling.
Gecko

[magman007]

crazy europeans...... LOL j/k. ITs ok, il give it that. I just dont think it will fly with the rest of the paintball comunity. I agree with shartly also, but it does look nice. The milling just isnt my forte. I would also watch out using the X as your sign for the e-mag. It is just beging for a law suit, Stan Lee might not like that too much. THeres also X enterprises who you have to watch out for. The thing i thik would look cool os a big curvacious x on the body, starting on either side and expanding. I really cant explain what i meen. But i assure you it would look cool. Now all you guys gota do is the z gripped e-mag! nice job tho, and manike i will be pmming you soon about the zgrip for my cocker.

[Tbone]

The grooving done on the battery pack looks very nice. I didn't even notice it when I first looked. Definitly keep that in mind for the final milling.

Personally, I like the design because it's something out of the ordinary with specific goals in mind. Not just some carved piece of metal with slits in it. The "X" looks really nice too.

[ben_JD]

You guys did some quality work on that prototype, but my personal taste has always leaned toward simplicity. That's one of the reasons I was first drawn to the Automag.

I really like the look of the Extreme before the milling. It has clean, simple, classic lines and is functional. I wouldn't mind you slimming it down a bit and milling off some of the excess, but the intricate design on this model is way too much for my taste.

I REALLY like the little finger indents on the front of the battery, though.

[X-Plosive]

The milling looks like the design on Aztec pottery or something similar. I can see where you are going with the X men logo, obviously hinting at the "extreme". The triggerframe looks very nice. Any chance of seeing a single trigger for it any time soon? The milling is a little too much and ugly. It looks like a maze as opposed to a nice sleek body with milled indents etc.

[prikkaboo]

i dont really like the liney design. it seems more like a drawing or something like that than a sculpture. i would rather see some thicker lines and some three dimensional shapes like on dark angels and such, you dont have to use theyre designs, but that three dimensional feel is really nice. it seems like you have more like a sculpture than just something that had some lines drawn on. also with the thicker lines and more three dimensional ridges, they give you something focus on. with the little lines it feels too busy.

[deded]

do you think you could do something like this?


The agd logo might be tough.. but maybe you could just load it into the milling program or something.... that would be sweet. The little waves on the side aren't very cool, I was going for something that resembled an 'X'... but they look more like little spikes.

[Manuel_FZR]

addition to my first post:
I would like, that there is so much milled away, what is possible. Don´t look too much on the design! If it´s extremely milled, it will look cool by it´s own. A friend of me has a extemely milled cocker witch has no pattern or design, but it looks so great (and really everyone says it)... it´s verry minimalistic and martial!

[Bad Dave]

I think the milling would look better once annodised but also agree there is too much there, too complicated.

What impresses me is the sheer rate that this is being worked upon, look at how much work AGD US and Europe have done in the past year, I think they all deserve a pat on the back for that.

I think AGD logos are a good idea for the first run at least so people don't mistake them for angels. lol.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Originally posted by headcase
I really do like the idea of the pattern lines, just no how they look in the picture. If you look at the 2nd pic, the milling on the battery pack looks very clean with good sharp lines, but look at the body and the lines just don't look clean, on the battery pack it looks like a ruler was used, and on the body it was done freehand. I know it wasn't done by hand, and the illusion is caused by the body shape not being flat, but still it is the way it looks to me.

But I do like the look, it is very unique, and I think that is what the marker needs. I really want to see one in person, as well as a anno'd one. It is different than anything else out there, but it supposed to be. If I understand this is going to be offered along with the normal Extreme body, like the C+C Angels are. So if doesn't have to please everyone, if you don't like it, buy a normal Extreme and have it milled to YOUR liking. Isn't that a big part of the Aluminum body in the first place, more customization options?

I say do the first run of, say 250 or so, in this style....then do a run of the streamlined "feather" version of it, and by the those 500 markers are sold, I'm sure you will have had plenty of time to think up a new idea.

That was a really well thought out post. Thankyou. As you point out the lines on the body are harder because thay are mapping over a 3D surface. The shape of the body lines are actually dictated by where we have removed material, because we cut in as far as possible in some areas and modified the rear hose slot you get that pattern which kind of raises up at the back.

manike

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Originally posted by headcase
I forgot to ask, what is milled into the upper part of the trigger guard....It looks like "SS001" is it just a way to keep track of which version of the milling this is?

LOL :) It is SS001, I designed the gripframe modifications for my own ultimate custome machined E-mag which I am working on. AGDE liked the mods so much they want to run them on their C&C guns though so we used that grip frame when we started putting prototypes together.

SS stands for Simon Stevens (or maybe Super Series... ;) )

manike (Simon and Not John even though I have been posting under his ID).

[shartley]

Okay… after a bit of thinking.. I whipped this up for “what if” purposes.

I think you should take a key from the SFL but possibly take it a step further? I like simplicity personally, and I know you can kill a good concept by overdoing it. I feel that was the case with your first milling job.

I think this design might offer a bit more appeal to current customers. It also offers great “weight reduction” if done correctly. And add to that the possibility for some outstanding Anno Jobs. It will be easily recognizable as the Xtreme E-Mag.

I would consider purchasing one like this.
(Note: If this looks like work others have done, this was totally unintentional. I did not look at any other markers or fantasy designs while working on this.)

[Panzerr]

The frame being milled behind the lower part of the double trigger is a very nice feature! The general "cut" looks good to me, but I do agree that the Aztec pattern is a bit too busy.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Hi Wilke,


Originally posted by Gecko
1) Knowing Manike's fetish for 5 axis milling guessing a big HOSS or similar CNC mill

Not quite :) If we were using a 5 axis mill things would look very different... This is all done with just 3 axis.

It's actually a small but very effective MiniMill from Haas (a USA company). It will fit Extreme bodies on but not full size vehicle which is what I am more used to :)


Originally posted by Gecko
1)2)Normal laptop running i'm guessing win 2K

Yep it's my lap top with win2k and a 850Mhz processor. Still fast with our software but you should see the 2GHz machines run our stuff :)


Originally posted by Gecko
13)That was done with Tebis. Manike works for them, head rep in England i think. Very high end cad/cam suite used mostly in europe

Yes indeed :) I'm actually likely to be in the USA with it this year as we bring it to the good people in D&C at Dearborne.


Originally posted by Gecko
4) It wouldn't be cost effective to run custom desighn, your better off going to a local machine shop to do personal milling.
Gecko

It wouldn't be cost effective but I could do it. It would be damned expensive. If you need to ask how much you can't afford it :)

Good job I'm doing this for the love of paintball :)

The next prototype design should be off the mill some time this evening ;)

manike

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Originally posted by deded
do you think you could do something like this?


The agd logo might be tough.. but maybe you could just load it into the milling program or something.... that would be sweet. The little waves on the side aren't very cool, I was going for something that resembled an 'X'... but they look more like little spikes.

deded we could do that very easily. But it's not much different to stock is it? We can do the logo if AGD can find a .dwg file of it (I actually need it as .dxf, or iges, or catia or UG or....)

manike

[Dave]

Originally posted by deded
do you think you could do something like this?


The agd logo might be tough.. but maybe you could just load it into the milling program or something.... that would be sweet. The little waves on the side aren't very cool, I was going for something that resembled an 'X'... but they look more like little spikes.

I think this would be an Excellent idea-the smaller battery pack, the grooves in the battery pack, IF, you were also able to put a small indend or mill some type of groove at the end of the trigger guard for your thumb to hook inside the trigger guard when holding the battery pack, with your thumb resting right in the groove.

If anything I say it's hard to say if it looks good without the finished product, because just the basic aluminum mill looks 'rough', but through the anodizing, it may look a lot better. I think an Aztec theme would be cool, but definitely more 3D, and not so random with putting lines-like try to have a solid pattern your going for. But its a great start, I don't think anyone has done the aztec theme before...

When I picture the X-treme Emag, I picture the absolute Rolls Royce or Ferrari of paintball markers. Its the most advanced, most capable, best engineered, most durable, and hopefully, most classy. It's design has to reveal this. The 'most' of anything endures as a legend. I would like to see the X-treme become this. Your going to have make regular people( not mag connoisseurs, :) ) look at this marker and say "Forget Angels, forget Cockers, this is IT right here." As for design, I cannot recommend anything but to keep it stylish, graceful, and classy with a touch of finesse.

-Dave

[Vegeta]

Well... What would be really good, if you could make thsoe a bit deeper notches... then fill them with a clear/traslucent dark red/blue resin fill that would bond the the metal....

[Manuel_FZR]

... oh another pro: I like, how the body fits to the barrel! Verry good!
(I have to look at the marker longer time, to dicover all features ... )

But: I don´t like the "stripe" design at all ... it looks ugly. (wouldn´t buy it in "stripe" design) Use free fields with rough designs ... it looks much better! Also it´s the best possibility to reduce weight ... and I think, that´s the main reason of milling ... the look comes with the simplicity!

[Sledgehammer]

Shartley, that looks <b>awesome</b>!!! I want one of these!!!

[paintballer187]

nice, it is a pretty cool design but to fancy for my tastes.

[shartley]

Sledgehammer
For you, I have attached your very own E-Mag Extreme Custom Edition! Enjoy.

I don’t know who paintballer187 was referring to, but that could go for any marker, actually. I know the concept I whipped up would be too fancy for some folks, but it was just a concept. It can also be “dummied” down with the same basic milling style, just reduce or take away all the “ribbing”.

And I like the Extreme just the way it is too. But I thought it would be neat to take an idea inspired by the SFL and give it a PUSH onto the Extreme….. and then some. I really did not care for the first milling they did, so I couldn’t do any worse.

Heck, I know that none of my designs will even be used anyway… LOL But at least they can provide “idea” material.

[udtseal]

Shartley should work for AGD designing custom milling! THAT ROCKS! :D :D

[zvanut]

i agree w/ udtseal, shartleys looks very good :)

[headcase]

Shartley's Extreme--

The body is a more conservative style, while it doesn't look like any other marker out there, the design is very close to the SFL in looks, I don't beleve this is a good thing. Shartley did a nice job on it, but I personally think AGD needs to go off in their own direction.

BTW -- on the battery back I would center the logo, and get rid of those lines.

Just me

[shartley]

Thanks guys. As long as the pictures create dialogue that is what is important.

I like the last one I put on.. but why not show a variety? Heck, it is only to jog the minds anyway…

E-Mag Lightning:

[TITAN]

i dont like the milled trigger frame. it looks ugly and i wouldnt use it like a single trigger anyway i dont care for single triggers anymore

[AngelBoy]

Shartley's lightning design:

I think that design looks pretty sweet, although I'm not much of a person that goes for pictures as such, I prefer lines and teardrops, lol. See what they look like when they are completely cut down as far as they can possibly go, and keep the back part near the valve like Shartley did with the first one, that just caught my attention.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Do you guys want to see the valve or do you want to have it hidden by the metal which can be anodised?

We are working on several designs at the moment. One of which is definitely 'extreme'!

manike

[headcase]

I perfer to see the valve, after all it is what makes a "mag" a "mag". Plus you lose a little more weight, and everything looks good with polished stainless, and black.

[shartley]

I think exposing it looks very nice. With it covered, it just looks a bit “blocked” to me. With it exposed, it uses the valve as part of the “decoration” and brand identity.. IMHO. (ditto headcase)

[Mega Man]

well after what you explained about the new Emag manlike I think the only thing you should change is the X maybe like an eye (kinda like the lidless fire eye of lord of the rings except an AGD original design) and maybe some milling where the ACE will be like wavy lines or something growing from it.

[Manuel_FZR]

manike: My wish would be, to mille as much off, as it´s possible - so let´s see the valve! Not so much design ... this looks not so good.
Mill as much off, as it´s possible, and the minimalistic thing of marker, what remains, would look verry good without any design/grafics/pictures - I bet!
I think with the grafics/pictures/designs the marker looks like a little boy´s toy ... :(
I also don´t like shartleys Xtreme ... that´s not my intension of the Xtreme ... but this is only my oppinion!

[845]

The lightning one is nice but i don't care for the other ones.

[Flamebo]

Originally posted by John Sosta, AGD Europe
Do you guys want to see the valve or do you want to have it hidden by the metal which can be anodised?

We are working on several designs at the moment. One of which is definitely 'extreme'!

manike

Seeing some of the valve, but not all, like you've been doing looks great and cuts weight. Stick with it, maybe toss a few more ideas up here.

[TITAN]

i agree with manual_fzr. i want as much as possible gone but i want it to look just as good as the SFL i want it to be as light as possible but still have style. i also dont like graphics or pictures it just makes it look bad. i want to see the valve too.

also i dont want it to have that frame with the milled finger grooves and that recess under the sensor it looks really bad and i only use double trigger anyway. you should keep the regular style frame.

[tremis]

Show the valve. I agree with the reasons everybody else offered: a little more shaved weight, Looks good, brand recognition, ect. That grip out to be standard on every E-mag its just so darn nice. When I get my xtreme, I planned on having my own milling done, but I'll use that grip for sure. As far as the milling, less is more. I dont mean take off less material, I'm all for light, but simplicity is the way to go. I think milling should make the gun feel and appear lighter and to look more streamlined. Like an F1 car. If you follow F1,you may have noticed that when they changed the front wing rules, a few teams had some awful looking ideas (Jordan $ Benneton) oops I got off subject. Any streamlined is the way I would go.

Tremis

Oh yeah, Shartley, you should have entered those ideas in the fantasy contest, they're real nice.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Hehehe You said you wanted to see the valve... How about I do that and take off 5oz of the original 11.5Oz it started as... How light!

First one just came of the mill. First matching battery pack is under way...

I like that lightening one also and is actually a very similiar idea to the one that just came off the mill.

I wish modelling in 3D and milling was as quick and easy as photoshop :) but sometimes It's just a little harder working in the 'real' world.

manike

[damageinc54]

I like the finger grooves milled into the grip frame but otherwise I think the gun looks hideous.

[RSUAVE911]

Ok I really hate the milling job.

It kind of looks like some kind of aztec drawings, its definitely not look too good.

It should be more of body chunk millings.


More than just engraving designs into the gun.

Yeah I think someone said it, I think the logo should be engraved somewhere (battery pack).

I really love what you did at the end of the gun (where the valve would be. LOOKS REALLY COOL!!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! :) :) :D :D

[RSUAVE911]

Ok I really hate the milling job.

It kind of looks like some kind of aztec drawings, it definitely NEED SOME MORE WORK.

It would be more a lot better if it was more of body chunk millings.


More than just engraving designs into the gun.

Yeah I think someone said it, I think the logo should be engraved somewhere (battery pack).

I really love what you did at the end of the gun (where the valve would be. LOOKS REALLY COOL!!!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! :) :) :D :D

[Gecko]

Manike
I'm taking a cnc class next semester and hopefully will be able to steal some time on some of the schools brand new Haas machines. Curious about how long it takes you to draw up the desighns? I've been trying to think of how you run the patterns around the curves and come up with a blank on how to do it in Autocad......
Gecko

[paintbattler]

i think its a kool design but wont u think it wood be a little expensive? id say it will prob be way more than any angel out there..bout 2000-2200? i dunno im not an expert in pricing tho...

[Sledgehammer]

Shartley: Thanks man, that is <b>sweeeet</b>!!! (drool)

Manike: Valve exposed definitely!

[Manuel_FZR]

Originally posted by John Sosta, AGD Europe
Hehehe You said you wanted to see the valve... How about I do that and take off 5oz of the original 11.5Oz it started as... How light!

First one just came of the mill. First matching battery pack is under way...


manike

Take it all away ;):D ... and: no pics/graphics ... but style! ;)

[shartley]

Tremis
I could not enter into the Fantasy Contest because I was actually running it.

Also, all the work I show on AO (with the Z-Grips, these milling concepts, etc.) were whipped up in a VERY short amount of time….. (as in 10 minutes to an hour at most with VERY casual work.. mostly just sitting staring at the screen thinking and visualizing) the contestants had a whole month to work on their entries (and most only entered one)….. But thanks.

manike

I wish modelling in 3D and milling was as quick and easy as photoshop but sometimes It's just a little harder working in the 'real' world.(cough…. ) Nice redirection.

I know that the designs I put online are quite possible. I made sure I did not do something that could not be done, or would be unrealistic. And I have perfect faith that if you WANTED to, you could reproduce them.

How about this…. I make things done in Photoshop look easier than they really are as well. But it is the software I am choosing to use, and I know how to use it….. and you chose yours. Use the Force Young Jedi... ;)

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Originally posted by Gecko
Manike
I'm taking a cnc class next semester and hopefully will be able to steal some time on some of the schools brand new Haas machines. Curious about how long it takes you to draw up the desighns? I've been trying to think of how you run the patterns around the curves and come up with a blank on how to do it in Autocad......
Gecko

Hhmmm It's difficult to say and it depends on what you mean by drawing up designs.

There are two ways of doing this, one where you 3D model the whole thing and then cut the surfaces you have and one where you have the blank and visuallize in your mind what the toolpath you write will cut from it.

The two designs here are very much a mixture of these two processes.

I have another I am working on dubbed the Manik-E-Mag in which I have over 30 modelling hours so I have a perfect 3D model of it before I start machining. That one still isn't finished but that way I know exactly what it will be like before I start writing any NC code.

manike

[manike]

Originally posted by shartley
I know that the designs I put online are quite possible. I made sure I did not do something that could not be done, or would be unrealistic. And I have perfect faith that if you WANTED to, you could reproduce them.

This annoys me because you talk as if you know what you are talking about when you obviously do not. I would not tell you what it is possible with photoshop so please do not tell me what is possible in 3D modelling and milling. I suggest we both stick to talking about our respective skills. You make images and I will tell you if they are possible/feasible/cost effective.

I WANT very much to reproduce designs that are thought of by people here on AO but some are just not feasible or practicle for different reasons. All of yours so far fall into this bracket.

I did not want to say this because I do not want to stop you doing design images or working your magic in photoshop, but I do not want you implying that I am not working your images for any other reason than that they are not possible.

I will point out why your images so far are not possible and then hopefully you can think about such points when making subsequent ones.

Firstly they are not completely original. I will not copy or rip off anyone elses work. So far most of your images are based off the SFL design. I will not in any way replicate something that resembles this. It is not professional and I have no intention of doing such. I personally know the guys responsible for that design and it is their hard work. If you wish to work from already made designs may I suggest ones of a standard Extreme would be ideal or any AGD product or any images I have previously posted for these threads or the Fantasy E-mag thread.

Secondly and most importantly your designs are not feasible or machinable for these reasons:-

You are adding material where is none currently. We are not working from scratch we are maching ontop of what is already done. This makes your designs flat out impossible. The only real area of concern here is at the front of the guns in your design. But I get the impression if I tweaked your design then it would go away from your design intent and you wouldn't be happy...

You are creating positive fillets and body shaping in areas where to be able to do so on a current blank would break through the body. Not just through to the valve but through to where the bolt is. In your images you can colour over this, in real life we would be left with a large hole somewhere you do not want it. People may want to see the valve but I think very few want to see the bolt and spring.

Positive fillets can be made in several ways. You can make them with specialised tooling, but in a production enviroment like AGDE have that is a very silly and costly idea. If you make them with special tooling they are best done ONLY in a 2.5D manner, in most cases this looks very planar. If you try and 3D create surfaces from such a fillet they will look forced and you have major tangency issues. i.e. it will look crap in any view other than from the direct side. (designers can often make things look great from one view but have trouble making a 3D part which looks good from all angles).

At the front of your design there is not material to make a fillet with a specialised tool. It would need to be a freeform fillet of variable radiancy (as would the back one in all sensibility). This I can do very easily (if it didn't break through into the bolt and valve area which yours would...) But this is very costly to machine and difficult to machine to get a decent surface finish taking into account machine/tool/setup tolerances. As you machine a freefrom fillet which goes around a 90degree curve as yours do, then you have to pay special attention to how you machine them to get a satisfactory surface finish. This usually means cutting along their isoparamaters (edge boundaries if you like) and this results in costly machine time. It also results in toolpaths which are hard to blend with others cutting the rest of the body shape for the tolerance issues stated above.

Cutting negative fillets is much easier and quicker because you can use the shape of the tool and you can work over 3D surfaces. For instance your battery pack that I like is very possible. AGDE have no tooling that could cut it with positive rads from one level to the next in a sensible time frame. It is possible but the battery pack would be on the machine for a long time and so it is not cost effective or feasible. It would be possible to cut it with negative rads quite easily and although with standard tooling it would cost a lot to machine, with some almost standard tooling it could be done very cost effectively and from the side would look almost identical to the image you produced.

If we have to use non standard tooling or very long mill times this in the real world equates to very costly parts. This means the custom body milling would cost far too much for the market place we are trying to enter. This means it is unrealistic.

If you come up with concept images that are feasible then rest assured I will use them. After all that is what we are using this forum for. But I will not waste my time trying to create things which I can look at and immediately say will not work or will take too long and cost to much to machine.

Hopefully you will take those points and design something that is fantastic and quite possible.

manike

[shartley]

Manike
I would first like to say thank you for the response. Secondly I would like to ask that please try to use a little more tact next time.

But now I will address the issues you made.


This annoys me because you talk as if you know what you are talking about when you obviously do not. I would not tell you what it is possible with photoshop so please do not tell me what is possible in 3D modelling and milling. I suggest we both stick to talking about our respective skills. You make images and I will tell you if they are possible/feasible/cost effective.I know full well what is possible with taking material OFF of a chunk of material. And working in 3D is very similar. I have personally designed numerous things in a wide range of 3D Software as well. So, I guess that only leaves the “milling” issue. So I would appreciate it if you leave the “you obviously do not” off your statements. It only makes you look uninformed.

And..
And I have perfect faith that if you WANTED to, you could reproduce them.was actually a COMPLAMENT to you. There are many reasons why a person would not want to do something, but the fact that they “could” shows skill. You may need to rethink how you thought I was intending my comments.

You however, act as if the only thing I know how to do is work in Photoshop. I can tell you, as can MANY AO Members that this could not be farther from the truth. (As well as continual implications, by some, that I do NOTHING for the Paintball Industry or even care about it.) But I will leave it at that… yes it still bothers me.


I WANT very much to reproduce designs that are thought of by people here on AO but some are just not feasible or practicle for different reasons. All of yours so far fall into this bracket.

I did not want to say this because I do not want to stop you doing design images or working your magic in photoshop, but I do not want you implying that I am not working your images for any other reason than that they are not possible.BS.. I know of no other way to put it so bluntly.

I looked at the raw un-milled body and then at your fully milled one. Heck even a half blind person can see you removed more material than is need to do any of the designs I put online (minus the last one that was actually taking what you already did and smoothed it out and styled it a bit…. In the “other” Milled thread.). You may not be able to cut as deeply as the design concepts looked (in even the last one), but that is a Technical issue (as was discussed), but the outcome would be “close” in design to the concepts. And after all, since you have worked with design concepts before, you should know this all too well.

And even another member brought up the fact that you can take VERY small amounts off and it will still be a visual change even to the unaided eye. So…. Same design, less taken off… result, “similar” finished product.


Firstly they are not completely original. I will not copy or rip off anyone elses work. So far most of your images are based off the SFL design. I will not in any way replicate something that resembles this. It is not professional and I have no intention of doing such. I personally know the guys responsible for that design and it is their hard work. If you wish to work from already made designs may I suggest ones of a standard Extreme would be ideal or any AGD product or any images I have previously posted for these threads or the Fantasy E-mag thread.I am glad you would not copy or rip off anyone elses work. Neither would I. Being inspired by and expanding on an idea is not “ripping it off”. Look how many products are just expansions of other people’s designs or ideas. So, your comment about it not being “professional” is a bit aloof and off base to say the least. Are you are implying that because I admire (and openly say so) their design so much that I base a concept design off it, but did NOT copy it, is unprofessional?

The fact that you personally would not replicate something that looks in any way like their work is a personal decision.. period. And I respect that. However, I never hid the fact that I was keying off the SFL, in fact it was pretty much out in the open. I even SAID so.


Secondly and most importantly your designs are not feasible or machinable for these reasons:-Lots there, so I will not quote it all. However, you are wrong. I did not add any material where none was to begin with. I also gave no depth requirements for any of the milling. Again, please read my above comments again about the original block of material, and how much you already took off.

I also just looked at the images you posted in your new thread: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21581
And there is clearly enough material to do every design I posted (with slight changes) if care was taken.

Many of your issues were extra care, time, and expense issues. Honestly I don’t care about those, and should not when working up a “concept” graphic. They are only to spark ideas. I even stated that I did not think any of them would be used anyway. They were just to spark ideas… and that is all. And like I said, I tried to keep my concepts to things I felt looked good, and could be done….. or close to it. Again I am not the tech.

It is up to the Tech to determine how far a concept can go. You make this seem like a battle… and it isn’t. I posted CONCEPT graphics. I did not insult you. In fact, I complimented you. But your implications are quite a bit different, sorry. I did not rip off anyone’s work or ideas.

Oh, hey.. and isn’t this from a thread that has been moved on from? Left behind? Advanced to more recent developments? Aren’t we already on a different thread in the process? And I am personally tired of people holding every word I write to higher standards and scrutiny than any other member. Let it go for Christ’s sake. I was stating opinions…. This thread is a step in the WRONG direction. We were actually making headway in the “newer” thread on the milling process.

How about THAT for reality?

[manike]

Shartley I will use tact when you are able to listen to people who know better about something than you do and have the ability to admit when you are wrong. Until then then I will continue to point out where you are incorrect, and why I do not like your implications.

As far as most of the rubbish you posted above I continue to say you do not know what you are talking about. Prove me wrong. Design a body in 3D that can be milled in a sensible and feasible time period and it will be made. Until then stick to talking about what you know.

A thread does not die just because it hasn't been responded to for a few hours. Heck I have to sleep some time! :)

manike

[shartley]

Think what you want. You have a problem with me personally... period. And all this other stuff is BS. You will continue to "find" faults with my designs, and things I post, even if I was to walk up to you and hand you the finished product. It is almost like a game for some of you to find fault with anything Shartley does or says.

They were CONCEPTS.... get a grip. If they were meant as true working models, you (as a tech) would be out of a job. And this "prove me wrong" crap? I have done that time and again when people doubted me, but it never changes things here on AO. Some of you will continue to feel the way you do.... no problems here with that. Have at it.

Also have fun. No, I truly mean it with no sarcasm intended at all. I am now officially ending all contributions to your “milling project”… like you really needed (or wanted) them anyway, right? LOL You can take this as me picking up my ball and going home, or whatever, I don’t care. It is just not worth any aggravation on my part in the end. I thought I was helping AO and contributing to the idea of Membership contribution, but again, some of you want to make it into a personal issue… and that takes away from the project. So, I will remove myself from the equation.

[manike]

Originally posted by shartley
Also have fun. No, I truly mean it with no sarcasm intended at all. I am now officially ending all contributions to your “milling project”… like you really needed (or wanted) them anyway, right? LOL You can take this as me picking up my ball and going home, or whatever, I don’t care. It is just not worth any aggravation on my part in the end. I thought I was helping AO and contributing to the idea of Membership contribution, but again, some of you want to make it into a personal issue… and that takes away from the project. So, I will remove myself from the equation.

That really is a shame. And I mean it. I'm sorry you act this way when someone doesn't agree with you or proves you wrong.

If you come up with something that will work then I will absolutely take it further.

I do find discussing/debating with you is sometimes like talking about range to a 12yr old with a cocker...

manike

[shartley]

<---- reserving his comments. No place for them on AO.

[Dragoon]

Hmmm.... Guys lets just agree that you are both talented and end it at that.

As for my input:
expose the valve as much as possible
keep it simple and don't make it look too busy
remove as much material as possible

I would prefer to see something that had clean lines without a lot of decoration. A logo is good (AGD or a big X) that pertains to the marker, but I don't want to have to explain the design to someone. Let the custom mill shops do the really radical milling.

Douglas

[steveg]

Manike I'm wondering if maybe shartley intended those
fillets to be "inny" fillets instead of the "outty" fillets
that you are perceiving them as being. That being the case,
the reason for your objections to the design would be
reduced ???

[manike]

Dragoon

Thanks for your post you bring up some good points.


Originally posted by Dragoon
expose the valve as much as possible
keep it simple and don't make it look too busy
remove as much material as possible

I would prefer to see something that had clean lines without a lot of decoration. A logo is good (AGD or a big X) that pertains to the marker, but I don't want to have to explain the design to someone

Have you seen Dave's design? I think it is very much like what you are saying above.


Originally posted by Dragoon
Let the custom mill shops do the really radical milling.

LMAO this is custom mill shop work! Just because Tom posted the pictures does not mean these are the stock versions of the extreme for a whole model year or anything like that! That's why I was trying to do a few things that are very radical. These are not going to be high production items but quite limited edition versions. They may even be made to order!

manike

[manike]

Originally posted by steveg
Manike I'm wondering if maybe shartley intended those
fillets to be "inny" fillets instead of the "outty" fillets
that you are perceiving them as being. That being the case,
the reason for your objections to the design would be
reduced ???

At the front yes, but the front of the second gun has exactly that set up at the moment. It's just hard to see the fillet because it is in raw aluminium.

but not at the back at the back that high up it would make them even more likely to go into the bolt area unless they were very tiny fillets such as 1mm, in which case they wouldn't look like fillets just lines pretty much.

You could do a convex fillet at the back but you would need to start much lower down the body (again concave would be better). You could also do it at the front but it would need to start of very sharp because of the material that has already been milled away (I'm trying to get blanks that haven't been milled like that so the front would be quite possible.)

I believe the idea of 'melting' the shape that Shartley mentioned implied rounding off the corners. Concave fillets leave sharp lines and edges.

The front I could get to be very simliar to Shartleys image the back is just not really possible. If I was starting from a larger block of material it would be though...

The image with all the angled lines would never look like that again because of all the material that has already been removed. You would not be able to get that visual effect as the lines went from the battery up to the body. You could do the body (it would look like another prototype we did, maybe I can get pics) but it would still have the lines as they go up coming out over the 3D surface (there is no way it can be planar and clean due to material already removed). This means the lines would look like they do on the Aztec body just without following the vertical shape at the front and back. It would just be the horizontal bits. Shartley could photo shop that up and see if he was happy with it. Of that I have no doubt.

manike

[manike]

Actually it would be more like the angled lines at the back of the body moved to the front. That I can do easily and should (?) be easy to photoshop for someone who knows what they are doing with photoshop (i.e. not me! :) )

manike

[steveg]

manike I take it than you are starting with already finished xtreme body's and not the raw extrusion ?

[manike]

Originally posted by steveg
manike I take it than you are starting with already finished xtreme body's and not the raw extrusion ?

Exactly! At the moment this is the situation and it is very limiting (and quite annoying at times to be honest).

AGDE are already looking to take steps to take this issue forwards.

manike

[Dragoon]

Originally posted by manike
LMAO this is custom mill shop work! Just because Tom posted the pictures does not mean these are the stock versions of the extreme for a whole model year or anything like that! That's why I was trying to do a few things that are very radical. These are not going to be high production items but quite limited edition versions. They may even be made to order!

manike [/B]

:D
Ya I guess I fell into the trap of associating you as an AGD designer. Sorry about that. As for limited quantities, I've been waiting for the Extreem C&C that AGDE said they would be doing. I'm looking for a very lite streamlined version of the Extreem. I'm looking to buy so keep me in mind if you have a body you'd like to sell (that sounds a little kinky...), prototype or otherwise.

Douglas

PS I do like Dave's version, but I would prefer something that's less flowing and organic. I like clean and crisp.

[manike]

Sorry I appear to be making more confusion. I do not work for AGD (almost did once but that is another story).

These are AGDE's prototypes for their 'Custom C&C Extremes'. They have the CNC mill but I am helping them with the designs and NC code programes (my real job is running a CAD/CAM company).

What do you mean by streamlined? I am putting ideas together for a pro version which would do something like that. Please do sketch out an image of what you mean on one of the images I posted up elsewhere. Feel free to post it in this thread or any of the other relevant ones :) I will find it.

manike

[gmag]

Thats a ridiculous implication. There is no place on AO for that crap.

[Dragoon]

Originally posted by manike
What do you mean by streamlined? I am putting ideas together for a pro version which would do something like that. Please do sketch out an image of what you mean on one of the images I posted up elsewhere. Feel free to post it in this thread or any of the other relevant ones :) I will find it.

manike

I took a look at one of the other bodies you did and I liked it a lot. I just trimmed off the back to fit with my desire to have the valve exposed and reduce the weight even more. I did a quick job in Photoshop. I'm not that skilled so I did not add the valve, but I'm sure you could picture it ;)

http://www.riversidewoodworks.com/files/modified_custom1.jpg

I'd buy this once it was anno'd.

Douglas.

[FooTemps]

That is completely impossible... How would the valve be held in? The extreme is just like any other mag and need to be held in by the screw. You could chop some off but not that much.

And...

Here's an idea if those feasible but off the wall designs could be custom ordered. "Radical E-Mag"

[Dragoon]

Or to smooth out the back a little add a simpler back end. This would help make the marker look less blocky, but still keep it simple, clean, and expose a lot of the valve.

Sorry about my rudimentory Photoshop skills.

http://www.riversidewoodworks.com/files/modified_2_custom1.jpg

[Dragoon]

Originally posted by FooTemps
That is completely impossible... How would the valve be held in?

Ahh.. yes. Some material would have to be left under the valve to take up the space of the standard rail and the thickness of the current SS body.

Douglas

Edit: There, added some more meat to the second pic.

[FooTemps]

Yeah, I forgot to add that too.

[Manuel_FZR]

Good Dragoon. That looks good. Make the material under the valve fit better to the gripframe.

[manike]

Dragoon that's pretty cool. One that I have in mind for a lightweight version was inspired by my Spearhead Cocker.

I'm thinking to take the body down as far as possible as soon as I can behind the feed stub without showing the bolt and then run along at the lowest level to the back and just above the grip frame kick up into a spoiler shape. Imagine it looks like a pickup from the side with a huge rear wing.
But the wing might not go right over the valve just up and around it enough to support it. The Valve would look like the tubes in the Spearhead or Spanky cobra bodies :)

manike

[Dragoon]

Your making me drool Manike!

Douglas

[Manuel_FZR]

manike: Would it be possible to take the body so far down, to show the bolt? For me, I think it would look cool, to see the bolt moving :D
Would this be possible?

[manike]

I think it is possible. I've seen an original mag like this, where there were cut outs in the stainless body. I'm not sure if it would hinder performance any if you got mud and muck in there. Maybe this is one to ask Tom?

How about the valve covered and a window showing the bolt? That is the great thing about these bodies we can do so many custom variations. I was discussing it with AGDE today and we will be able to custom build you a gun. If you want specific details they are prepared to do it. That's pretty amazing if you ask me!

manike

[Manuel_FZR]

Originally posted by manike
I think it is possible. I've seen an original mag like this, where there were cut outs in the stainless body. I'm not sure if it would hinder performance any if you got mud and muck in there. Maybe this is one to ask Tom?

How about the valve covered and a window showing the bolt? That is the great thing about these bodies we can do so many custom variations. I was discussing it with AGDE today and we will be able to custom build you a gun. If you want specific details they are prepared to do it. That's pretty amazing if you ask me!

manike

YOu have really infinitely possibilities with this bodies.
I think, mud would be a problem ... but I would only use this mag at sunshine :D :D
Could realy look cool ...
The valve coverd and a open window: could also look cool, but you know, I´m a light-weight fanatic, so I would just mill it all away till you see the bolt :D (but that´s only my opinion)

[manike]

I could mill a window to the bolt and then put perspex windows in there...

manike

[pballplayer13]

to complex hurts my eyes:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[FooTemps]

holy thread resurrection batman!

lol

[Python14]

Does it bother you at night that you resurrected a thread that was nearly 2 years old?

[pballplayer13]

no not at all but its weird I didnt even notice it was an old thread dont know how that happened......:confused: :confused:

[rikkter]

Originally posted by Python14
Does it bother you at night that you resurrected a thread that was nearly 2 years old?


2 years old? its a year old to the day. lol.

[Python14]

uh......January is not October dude. It just isn't.

[rikkter]

haha oops, man i'm tired:eek:

[Python14]

:)

[Gunga]

Die thread, DIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!