AGD inline reg

[LegumeOfTerror]

i always wondered why AGD never made an inline reg that had the design and consistancy of the one used in the X-valve and made it available for other guns. i figured it be a way to open them up to the mass market again. just mill it in a visualing pleasing way and they would have a pretty solid product. any thoughts?

[warbeak2099]

i always wondered why AGD never made an inline reg that had the design and consistancy of the one used in the X-valve and made it available for other guns. i figured it be a way to open them up to the mass market again. just mill it in a visualing pleasing way and they would have a pretty solid product. any thoughts?

Sounds like a good idea.

[Chronobreak]

well the way the rt works it is needed at the chamber pretty much from what i udnerstand so im not sure if an rt like reg could be made for other guns...

as for a classic type reg, i believe there was some made for other guns, or osme early double reg'd mags

[Shane-O-Mac]

Well the X valve isnt readily adaptable to a vert set-up. And current vert regs recharge and perform every bit as well as an X-valve. But one of the first vert regs were basicly made for Cockers, which didnt have one for a few years, and that made the Cocker perform much better. That vert reg was the Uni-Reg by Air America, and that was essentially a classic mag reg made vertical. Many regs are of the same design. ANS is one that is a direct descendant. And it is the same design of the Early AA HPA systems, Uni-reg, Fred Schultz signature series, Raptor, Raptor Rex, and Apocalypse. The 'Geddon is a completely different design.

[RRfireblade]

The A.I.R. is really nothing special in terms of regs , it's how it intregates with the rest of the valve that makes the whole R/T/X valve what it is. On it's own , it's just a reg and not a particularly high flowing one for that matter. :)

[LegumeOfTerror]

thanks for the info, just a thought i wanted taken care of.

[WalkingTarget]

the thing that makes mags special is that the reg is integral to the rest of the marker.

unless i'm missing something in the diagram, you could simply replace the AIR reg on the valve with a bored out chamber and use a vert reg in place of the integrated regulator.

well, maybe not quite as simply as that, but i've heard tell that Palmers recently sold a mag in such a configuration, using a sideline reg in place of the integrated reg.


on that note though, what is the point? unless you are going for a mag with a psychotic, could never be fed, rate of fire, the built in regulator is ideal, especially given the size of it all.

[AGD]

The classic valve regulator is nothing special. It just needs to be close to the air chamber for maximum performance. The RT reg is a WHOLE different animal and I will bet 99% of you don't understand exactly how it works. It achieves way faster than normal recharge rates because of the delayed feedback loop to the reg piston. It is in NO way similar to a standard vert reg in terms of function or performance.

The sad part is it can not be removed from the valve system as a stand along setup. It needs the feedback loop from the air chamber.

AGD

[PsychoBaller]

The classic valve regulator is nothing special. It just needs to be close to the air chamber for maximum performance. The RT reg is a WHOLE different animal and I will bet 99% of you don't understand exactly how it works. It achieves way faster than normal recharge rates because of the delayed feedback loop to the reg piston. It is in NO way similar to a standard vert reg in terms of function or performance.

The sad part is it can not be removed from the valve system as a stand along setup. It needs the feedback loop from the air chamber.

AGD


Hey Tom, after our un-official placemat diagram discussion at the IAO 03' yrs ago (Hotel Lobby).... I think you should make a Regulator purely out of o O-Rings... :rolleyes: :D

Would be much lighter, :bounce:


-baller

[LegumeOfTerror]

even if you included a sort of air chamber in the foregrip reg? is there really no way to make it work?

[SlartyBartFast]

The classic valve regulator is nothing special.

Yet, it was the basis for the AIR America line of regulators, No?


Don't sell the classic short.

[RRfireblade]

You'll never get the same results you do as the valve as a whole package.

To simplify it as best as I can ,

The RT recharges as quickly as it does , and that's really all we're talking about here as flow rates from some other stand alone regs meet and/or exceed that of the RT nowadays , because it takes full tank (output) pressure directly into the dump chamber of the valve and then regulates it on the back end. No other marker takes that high of a pressure right into it's reserve chamber. Even if you had that chamber built into a stand alone Reg , you'd still be running LP out to the markers reserve/dump chamber which will never be as fast as the RT and Reg as an intregal unit.

[RRfireblade]

Yet, it was the basis for the AIR America line of regulators, No?


Don't sell the classic short.

True but it's still a very basic , HP low flow (small passage) design. For it's time , it was ground breaking to have a Reg intregal to the valve design tho. That's where the real magic was in it's day.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Yet, it was the basis for the AIR America line of regulators, No?


Don't sell the classic short.

Look 6-7 posts above yours..............lol

Also, the later AA secondary regs (Vigilante' and Messiah) were redesigend somewhat. And the seat and pin were optomized more for secondary reg use. And AA secondary regs were some of the best on the market, at the time............................ ;)

[Shane-O-Mac]

True but it's still a very basic , HP low flow (small passage) design. For it's time , it was ground breaking to have a Reg intregal to the valve design tho. That's where the real magic was in it's day.

And IIRC, AGD was one of the, if not the FIRST, to offer a gun with a regulator stock from the factory. And in hindsight, prolly the lowest actual (Dump chamber) operating pressure gun at the time also.

[AGD]

I should have patented that too..... :(

AGD

[madcrisis]

I should have patented that too..... :(

AGD

lol poor tom

but think of it this way would u rather be remembered as a legend or an *Poof* like smartparts

[WalkingTarget]

I should have patented that too..... :(

AGD


But you are Tom Kaye, Innovator, Legend

not The Gardener Bros. *be nice no name calling*


with any luck, this latest round of suing will result in their patents in a weakened state.
too bad they can't be nailed with anti-trust.

but you, you will always be remembered as the guy who brought some of the biggest innovations to paintball (how many companies had decent field strip methods before you?)

[Tao]

I should have patented that too..... :(

AGD

Hey don't worry about it, you did great things for paintball. Patents are really just a mechanism to trigger a lawsuit and don't let SP get you down :clap:

[paint magnet]

it was ground breaking to have a Reg intregal to the valve design tho. That's where the real magic was in it's day.


It would seem as though it's still groundbreaking to have a reg integrated into the valve. I don't know of any other markers off the top of my head which do so.



I should have patented that too...:(

Cheer up Tom, you're still a little higher on my list than the Gardners. If I had to think of an analogy, it'd be sorta like I'd let you name my firstborn child, whereas I wouldn't let Billy Gardner lick the dirt off my cleats.

[RRfireblade]

It would seem as though it's still groundbreaking to have a reg integrated into the valve. I don't know of any other markers off the top of my head which do so.



It's just not neccessary today or they would be doing it. Dual Reg'd HPA is the standard today. (Tank+1) Flow rates today are well more than you need as is recharge.

Back then you were talking about un-reg CO2 straight in the marker as typical.

[viper-mayhem]

Hey don't worry about it, you did great things for paintball. Patents are really just a mechanism to trigger a lawsuit and don't let SP get you down :clap:
This sueing crap will eventually come to an end. Harley Davidson did the same thing back then. Even going as far as sueing certified mechanics who started their own little shop and advertising the name "HARLEY DAVIDSON" anywhere in their shop. That was when you paid 5 grand more than MSRP. It forced other manufacturers to slightly alter designs to get around the patent and, low and behold, they made their design better after all. So Tom, think of this as a semi-retired - break, but eventually the market will come around needing your "expertice" again.

[WalkingTarget]

This sueing crap will eventually come to an end. Harley Davidson did the same thing back then. Even going as far as sueing certified mechanics who started their own little shop and advertising the name "HARLEY DAVIDSON" anywhere in their shop. That was when you paid 5 grand more than MSRP. It forced other manufacturers to slightly alter designs to get around the patent and, low and behold, they made their design better after all. So Tom, think of this as a semi-retired - break, but eventually the market will come around needing your "expertice" again.


I can't wait until all these 'Pro Tournament' players realize how often it's their hopper that gets hit, and say 'oh, wait a sec, what is this warp feed thingy?'

[AGD]

It's just not neccessary today or they would be doing it. Dual Reg'd HPA is the standard today. (Tank+1) Flow rates today are well more than you need as is recharge.

It is not necessary only because the front reg on most guns is NOT the final regulator. What people fail to understand is that the poppet valve does the regulating on all hammer valve guns. Spoolers are another story but run at so low a pressure different things come into play.

AGD

[skife]

unless i'm missing something in the diagram, you could simply replace the AIR reg on the valve with a bored out chamber and use a vert reg in place of the integrated regulator.




someone did that a few years back, i remember it, i dont remember who did it but it looked pretty cool.

anyone have pics of it?

[Chronobreak]

someone did that a few years back, i remember it, i dont remember who did it but it looked pretty cool.

anyone have pics of it?

pic man to the rescue

first here is the reg i think people are reffering to, as was i
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/kartakeeper/reg.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/kartakeeper/regthree.jpg

an heres the choped mag

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/kartakeeper/HM2-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/kartakeeper/HM1-1.jpg

--sorry i dont recall who they belong to

[skife]

i wish i could find one of those.

[paint magnet]

It's just not neccessary today or they would be doing it. Dual Reg'd HPA is the standard today. (Tank+1) Flow rates today are well more than you need as is recharge.

Back then you were talking about un-reg CO2 straight in the marker as typical.


I was thinking more for the sake of space...but I guess most markers have foregrips now anyway so that advantage is kind of lost.

[wjr]

pic man to the rescue

an heres the choped mag

--sorry i dont recall who they belong to


I'm pretty sure that's pneumaggers.

I had a similar cap made for me that I just sold in the B/S/T section.

Does anyone have an animation of an rt valve? Seeing an animation always helps me understand things better.

[MANN]

I'm pretty sure that's pneumaggers.

I had a similar cap made for me that I just sold in the B/S/T section.

Does anyone have an animation of an rt valve? Seeing an animation always helps me understand things better.

might I ask who made your cap?

[wjr]

A guy named Deus_Machina on MCB. He gave me a real good deal on it. Rainman can also make one for you.

[MANN]

A guy named Deus_Machina on MCB. He gave me a real good deal on it. Rainman can also make one for you.

just because i am too lazy to search right not/reading the paintball spin physics in deep blue do you happen to know what thread size it is?

[wjr]

Sorry, I don't. Are you gonna try making one for your barrel test?

[RRfireblade]

It is not necessary only because the front reg on most guns is NOT the final regulator. What people fail to understand is that the poppet valve does the regulating on all hammer valve guns. Spoolers are another story but run at so low a pressure different things come into play.

AGD

Oh dang , I was giving you credit for it first and Bud and Glenn had it all along. :D

[Geoff Call]

IIRC Air America (with Tom's blessing) made those HPA bottle regs, and a series of inline regs as well, which was so requested at the beginning of this thread, based off the classic mag A.I.R. valve. Also A.N.S. Gen-X2 regs are also pretty regularly available if you know where to look and they are basically the same design and have a reputation for being very consistent.

But the pages in my history book aren't as old as everyone else here...

Feel free to correct me:)

(Tom, Patents on all the stuff you created is purely hindsight, I'm sure Tippmann is kicking his own butt for not patenting the pin valve:) you didn't lose out as bad as them!)



Geoff Call
Paintball Charleston