It took less than 60 days.....

[punkncat]

For those of you following along....Our team has been overwhelmed with offers from "Ronin" who wish to play with us. Following our latest success at the last CFOA people just crawled out of everywhere suddenly interested in being a part of what we couldn't give away a few weeks ago.
Admittedly, we have a great deal going. Now that we are "in the spotlight" so to speak and doing well...not to mention actually doing it rather than talking crap...the capt of the team calls me the other day to have a talk.

With these new players offering their skills to the pot, we have more available players than slots on the roster. The capt has decided that in order to field the best team possible that there will be tryouts during the month. A test as it were for deciding who will be getting game time. This whole deal was started on the premise that we were free of performance pressure and the goal was to go have a good time. Evidently the small taste of success has completly done away with that ideal. I suppose it was me being nieve to think otherwise.

So the capt and a good friend of mine says to me..."Its nothing personal Old Man, but you better be prepared to buckle down if you plan on getting field time". I am now competing against kids 20 years younger than me for a spot on a team I helped create. Not so much a spot, but the ability to actually see time on the field at the CFOA. It was also broken to me that inspite of previous plans, Xball may be the next goal to play. Something that from the beginning I have expressed no intrest in doing.

For myself I have already found this schedule to interfere with my other paintball intrests, such as scenario play. I am missing a great event this month and will probably miss MOUT as well. Its really hard not to choose to go to the CFOA when the bill is being picked up by a sponsor.

I am not bitter or upset by this. Its a natural progression that was bound to happen. Its actually inspired me to get off my keester and start doing some serious cardio the past few weeks.
I have the skill set, but can never compete in size, speed and agilty with these youngsters. SO, I am just going to have to work on what I have. I guess I will see if I can cut the mustard and stick with it. If it turns out that I have become camp monkey and pod B, then I can always go back to what I loved before this experiance, and be able to say truthfully that I was part of a successful sponsored CFOA team.

I hope that through all these changes the team doesn't loose the chemistry that has been making it work. You can throw good players together, but that doesn't always result in performance unless everyone can get along and work together. I guess we will see at Tar Heel...

[BigEvil]

Damn. That would piss me off to no end. It seems to me that in order to stay in this game, it needs to remain a 'game' and not a 'sport'. I hope everything works out. I know that whole "VS 20 year olds" thing all too well. Thats why im hiding in the woods nowadays. :)

[mag_lover05]

Damn. That would piss me off to no end. It seems to me that in order to stay in this game, it needs to remain a 'game' and not a 'sport'. I hope everything works out. I know that whole "VS 20 year olds" thing all too well. Thats why im hiding in the woods nowadays. :)
true, my local fields are all speeball fields now, so i play in the woods. somehow, woods+classic mag and/or woods+phantom just seems way more fun then ballons and egos...

[punkncat]

Heck I love speedball and woodsball, but for different reasons. I like playing at the level offered in the CFOA because it brings back that feeling from so long ago. I am actually playing people with the same and better skills than I have. Makes it a challenge instead of just going through the motions with a bunch of rec ballers.
Woods has remained a challenge just due to the environment of the play. I mean being a six foot plus 240LB guy doesn't make it easy to sneak up on someone....

I guess what upsets me is this. The whole time we have been putting this together there have been three people there through thick and thin, myself included. We crawled, dug, scrounged, worked really hard to try and get people interested. This is before we even knew that we were going to be sponsored. So many of the other farm teams in this area were able to offer so much more than we could that finding quality people was quite a challenge. Consider the promises that all high school aged players hear. The pipe dreams a bunch of kids have about being a "pro/sponsored" team. Its got to get old. I am sure that its an empty offer made to them every day....

So we finally get it put together. We overcame that, put it all together, and NOW that we have actually done it, all these little bastards that haven't wanted anything to do with it up to now are knocking the door down trying to get on. I feel like the little red hen. We did all the footwork and they just want to latch on to the deal.

I guess it could be said that there was a loyalty issue as well. I am no fool. The capt is a matter of fact guy and he is going to do what carries him the farthest with this. And if I or anyone else on the team can't perform as well as another guy it would be bad for the team not to replace them. Buddies or not. Its not a matter of me or anyone else at this point being out. I will always have a place to some degree or another.It just amazes me how quickly everything we worked towards under the mindset we "were to have" changed to this. Makes my head spin.

[turbo chicken]

true, my local fields are all speeball fields now, so i play in the woods. somehow, woods+classic mag and/or woods+phantom just seems way more fun then ballons and egos...

balloons + classic mag/phantom aginst ego's ... eh kinda fun maybe on a good day

balloons + classig mag/phantom aginst classic mag/phantom ... almost always a good day of ball

Try and enjoy the ride while you can ... it's great news for the team.

[minimag03]

The team is just as much yours as it is your captains. Take what belongs to you. You could always coach them if they start playing xball.

[Paintchucker]

grow the team so that it is big enough to put two squads into tournaments.

Squad A could be the hard core gotta win players
Squad B could be the ones that are just playing for the love of the game.

having two squads also give you the ability to practice without the need for another team to practice against...

[Pacifist_Farmer]

The problem is see with the whole situation is:

Where were these people when the blood sweat and tears were being shed? These types of people always show up when a free ride (sponsored tournaments) is up for grabs. When you have nothing invested it is so much easier to destroy it.

[Lohman446]

For those of you following along....Our team has been overwhelmed with offers from "Ronin" who wish to play with us. Following our latest success at the last CFOA people just crawled out of everywhere suddenly interested in being a part of what we couldn't give away a few weeks ago.
Admittedly, we have a great deal going. Now that we are "in the spotlight" so to speak and doing well...not to mention actually doing it rather than talking crap...the capt of the team calls me the other day to have a talk.

With these new players offering their skills to the pot, we have more available players than slots on the roster. The capt has decided that in order to field the best team possible that there will be tryouts during the month. A test as it were for deciding who will be getting game time. This whole deal was started on the premise that we were free of performance pressure and the goal was to go have a good time. Evidently the small taste of success has completly done away with that ideal. I suppose it was me being nieve to think otherwise.

So the capt and a good friend of mine says to me..."Its nothing personal Old Man, but you better be prepared to buckle down if you plan on getting field time". I am now competing against kids 20 years younger than me for a spot on a team I helped create. Not so much a spot, but the ability to actually see time on the field at the CFOA. It was also broken to me that inspite of previous plans, Xball may be the next goal to play. Something that from the beginning I have expressed no intrest in doing.

For myself I have already found this schedule to interfere with my other paintball intrests, such as scenario play. I am missing a great event this month and will probably miss MOUT as well. Its really hard not to choose to go to the CFOA when the bill is being picked up by a sponsor.

I am not bitter or upset by this. Its a natural progression that was bound to happen. Its actually inspired me to get off my keester and start doing some serious cardio the past few weeks.
I have the skill set, but can never compete in size, speed and agilty with these youngsters. SO, I am just going to have to work on what I have. I guess I will see if I can cut the mustard and stick with it. If it turns out that I have become camp monkey and pod B, then I can always go back to what I loved before this experiance, and be able to say truthfully that I was part of a successful sponsored CFOA team.

I hope that through all these changes the team doesn't loose the chemistry that has been making it work. You can throw good players together, but that doesn't always result in performance unless everyone can get along and work together. I guess we will see at Tar Heel...

From experience with the same issues, though probably not the same level of success I will tell you walking away is the best thing. I simply have now offered to fill in on a good number of teams on an as needed basis, I find myself to get plenty of time and a spot in any tournament I want to go to. You have what those faster/smaller than you cannot have yet - experience. And its something that does not show in practice and drills.

[the123]

This type of thing has been going on a lot more lately. The older and bigger ballers have been pushed aside for the nimble soccer playing run-thru kids. Even though you may be a mass murderer on the field, if you are over 30 or anything over 200lbs. then you usually dont get taken seriously as someone a team would want these days. 5-6 years ago the speedball sport was still a little too expensive and out of reach for most teenagers. smart parts changed that.
today, i still play speedball only. i'm on a team of older guys avg age 30 (no where near the cfoa territory) and it works for us.. we do very well we're all murderers just a little more mature.
You could always throw the Rich Telford exception in at any time though.

[Jaan]

It makes me wonder what kind of value system is being fostered in paintball.

It used to be that playing sports helped people learn...well...sportsmanship. Turning your back on your team mates for the fast and quick buck isn't part of that. There's a cheesy southern saying that applies here: "You dance with the one who brung ya'".

I've had the same thing happen to me in real life where I worked my butt off building up something sucessful, and once I did the vultures started circuling wanting a peice of what I had. It happens all the time, but it doesn't make it right.

Why don't you start your own team with your own rules?

[LegumeOfTerror]

punkncat, your a beastly old dude. kick thier asses! :cheers:

[Pballwizz]

I can relate. Im only 17 but have been playing for what I believe is or is close to 6 years now. Now, Im not saying Im and old skool guy, but Ive been playing longer than most of the kids at my field. Now heres what gets me:

Ive always played for fun. Dont get me wrong...that mentallity has strayed from time to time, but it always comes to it: fun. So, to cut a long story short. after about 2 or 3 years, I stepped my game up to speedball/ tourneys. Then the new field opened up in my town. At first I was like, "Awesome! People will finally see what Im about!" (at this point I was one of the ONLY serious paintballers in my town) So thing went great. I eventually had my own little group at the field of guys whod be playing like, 2 years or so and had all Ions and stuff. They also had talent. I saw these guys rise throught the ranks and are now on a very successfull, well-know, team. Ive always been a bigger guy, and unlike those that just have the talent Ive had come mold it (and Im very proud of what Ive done and how far Ive gotten on my own) Thus, I was never picked up by the team. Although dissapointed, I wasnt bitter (aside from maybe the fact, that, even though Id been playing there 2 years starting the week after they opened..and offering to help as much as possible...I never got some much as a sincere thanks from the owner) What got to me though, was the fact that now these kids think they "ARE" paintball. That there so hot because they win big tourneys, get sponsors, and are locally famous. And they treat everyone like crap. Including me...the guy who used to hang out with them outside ofthe field, and even played a few tourneys with em. Now Im crap to them. Went to the field for the first time in a long while with another old player, and we didnt even get so much as a "hey, whats goin on guys". But the older guys who still play local and even had offers for the team, still give me respect, and I consider them good friends.

To me a real paintball player is a guy like you punkncat. Your aware enough to recognize these things, and I admire you for being so calm about it. It was angry when all my crap first started happening.

So basically dude, let the team go and do what they want. If you stick with em, have fun. If not, keep in mind, they're the ones who have forgotten their roots.

/rant

[Blazestorm]

What nobody realizes about paintball... every player overtime gets a paintball "instinct"...

You can't teach it or be taught it... you just get it... and you get it by playing a lot...

I will take an old-school player who's been playing for 15 years, who might be a bit out of shape, and not have the best "gun form"... over some spazball who has been playing for a year...

I watch these kids who have been playing for 2 years hop on D1 X-ball teams and think they're gods because they're playing so high up and doing decent, but you watch them try to play a local 5man rookie/nov and they get torn up because they're trying to play x-ball and the other team is still laning off break.

I don't even bother with teams anymore, paintball isn't the same with everyone trying to play national events.

Oh well, Good luck... I don't think it's worth it to fight for a spot... if I ever build a team, I better be on the playing roster until I quit... and I've only done that for local events :P

[punkncat]

punkncat, your a beastly old dude. kick thier asses! :cheers:

Thanks bro..... :cheers:

On a side note have you seen the announcement about MOUT?

End of May again...gonna be hot.

I can hijack my own thread....lol

[punkncat]

I very much appreciate the comments, insight and another point of view on the whole situation.

I guess I really have to step out of my own shoes for a minute to look at it more objectively. I am a 36 year old dude. I have a kid the same age as two of our players. I suppose it would be foolish of me to even consider that at the age of my capt (mid 20's) that I wouldn't be the same way. Its hard to stay grounded and humble when you are young. Everything is balls to the wall, 110% forward all the time. Things are learned generally in hindsight.

The whole team is proud and even a little head swelled. Its easy to get caught up in the whole thing and try to make it grow too fast.

I am gonna chill by for a minute. What is meant to be will be. My skills and place on the team have showed so far, and I would like to think that a lack of them would show as well. I am not by far the fastest or best on the team. But experiance and a cool head go a long way....

[LegumeOfTerror]

what mout deal you talking about?

[Lohman446]

I very much appreciate the comments, insight and another point of view on the whole situation.

I guess I really have to step out of my own shoes for a minute to look at it more objectively. I am a 36 year old dude. I have a kid the same age as two of our players. I suppose it would be foolish of me to even consider that at the age of my capt (mid 20's) that I wouldn't be the same way. Its hard to stay grounded and humble when you are young. Everything is balls to the wall, 110% forward all the time. Things are learned generally in hindsight.

The whole team is proud and even a little head swelled. Its easy to get caught up in the whole thing and try to make it grow too fast.

I am gonna chill by for a minute. What is meant to be will be. My skills and place on the team have showed so far, and I would like to think that a lack of them would show as well. I am not by far the fastest or best on the team. But experiance and a cool head go a long way....

Everyone has there own ability, and it is hard for people to understand that. The teams I play on understand that I am poor at being part of the plan, I am not the greatest shot, and I am not by any means fast. By the way, I don't dump paint either. What I bring to the table more than anyone else we play around with is that I will make moves that can totally change a game, an awareness of the environment, time, etc, and financial independence.

The last team I helped form - one player and I were for the most part financially responsible. We had an agreement that in theory protected us, in that I had 3 votes, the same as the team captain did. When it became apparent that the team was going to be more "competetive" than I wanted to be I made the comment that when they replaced me I understood that and I was replaced. Frankly I was not going to be at practice every week plus the weekends. Incidentally the other financial backer also backed out with me.

Moral - if you finanically support yourself, and bring anything to the table, you can find a spot to play. Last tournament I played with the #1 team on the field. It was very satisfying to roll my old team :) with the small, quick, replacement players. Yeh, he might have beat me to the snake, but there is no score for taking a position first :) .

If a team no longer offered what I wanted (which it sounds like this does not) simply walk away. You're 38, theres a big advantage to not having to bow to anyone for sponsorship. I no longer even look for it, the field owner is a friend, and I am satisfied with the prices I get on everything.

[mclaggan123]

does the capt have to compete to keep his spot? i started a team a few years ago and after two years i turned over capt to a fellow teammate. we had more and more people bug us to join our team and it was decided to have tryouts with the active team members included in order to field the best team. the capt tried to pull im the capt card and i dont have to compete for a spot. i told him i formed the team and hold the rights to the logo, website, and the contracts to our sponsors. i told him how can you ask another member that has been here as long as he has to compete if he didnt. i then made it known that if there were to be any tryouts then all members would have to tryout myself and the capt included. the funny thing is that the capt didnt make the cut. myself and the excapt are now coaches and alts for tournaments. it sucks getting old but even the best slowdown and have to step aside for the youth. i mainly play scenario now so i still have the balling fun that i grew to love but i can do it at my pace and my schedual. my advice to you think about whats best for you and have a good long talk with the capt and other founding members and see whats best for you and the team. if nothing else you can train the younger players to take your place and have the honor and sportsmanship that you have. good luck and let us know what you decide.

[68magOwner]

You have what those faster/smaller than you cannot have yet - experience. And its something that does not show in practice and drills.

I mean, yes and no. I agree that the MAJORITY of the fast/small/young kids out there today are not going to be as experienced as the old guys but, I mean, really, there are going to be PLENTY of exceptions. I myself am 19, ~5'9'', ~130lb, less than 5% body fat, plenty small/young/fast, and have been playing paintball for over 8 years, I have plenty of experience. Heck, I know a 12 year old who cant be more than 5ft tall 100lbs, who has been playing 4 years. Todays kids are smaller, faster, more agile, and more talented than some of the old guys out there, you just have to face it.

With that said, putting the most talented 5 kids on the field is NOT always going to get you the most wins. My team personally, have had pros guest with us who are arguably more talented than our "regulars" but, the fact that I have been playing with the core group of teammates for over 4 years means that we know exactly what to count on for each other, and each of us knows what the other wants to do before it happens. This leads to us being able to work together great with minimal communication so we can get things going faster than guys who really have to talk thigns out during games. I would rather play with guys who I am comfortable with than guys I thought may be marginally more talented.

I think the best thing for you to do would to keep drilling your fundamentals. Make sure you can play with your right and left hand with equal comfort and ease. Your snap shooting, running/gunning, and laning need to be on point. You dont need to be able to do rediculious superman dives, but, beign able to properly knee slide or maybe hip slide into a bunker would be a good thing. Focus on making SMART moves, not necessarly super fast moves. Keep your marker up ALL the time, no down time for running or reloading. I know guys in the CFOA like Matt Sossman (played for circus runaways last season, plays with gridlock now) who rarley if ever make big moves, yet, the guy shoots like 3 people every game. And George who recently (between last season and this season) had one of his legs amputated from the knee down and is still an amazing player. He played all last season barley being able to move faster than a hobble, and he was still a SOLID player who could do his job well because he has all of his fundamentals down. With his new prosthetic leg, he is more mobile and more lethal than ever.

I honestly feel that once you have your fundamentals down really well, paintball jsut becomes a real mental game. As long as you are in the right mindset to go out there and get what you need to get done, its going to happen.

[skife]

just saying man, you helped get the thing off the ground, you deserve your peice of the pie, correct?


just think of where all these kids we're when you were trying to get a team together.




Lohman, i feel the same way about being sponsored, i know one of the field owners around here and he usually gives me good prices on things.

[Lohman446]

I honestly feel that once you have your fundamentals down really well, paintball jsut becomes a real mental game. As long as you are in the right mindset to go out there and get what you need to get done, its going to happen.

I understand the exceptions that you consider. The last team I played on had myself (28), another player (35) who frankly is probably in better physical shape than 95% of paintball players, and one of the field owners sons (18) who fits the small, quick, agile definition. The 18 year old has more experience than either of us and we both have a lot. His dad has been playing / participating in the game forever and I have heard stories that the first times the kids played he had to carry the marker around for them because it was getting too heavy.

That being said, age tends to bring about a mental edge that is more than just experience (yeh, I worded it as just experience earlier). Not to say this always overcomes the advantages of physical fitness. I think I'm going to quit calling these the advantages of youth. Even though its harder for us older people we can still be small / fast / agile. I know these go away with age but we are not talking pro athlete level here. Even if we were, one of the great players on the Red Wings team is 45 years old. Before anyone gets upset, I don't consider pro paintball players to generally be in the same physical condition as the majority of major pro athletes.

Paintball, and other sports / games, are about testing skillsets. And you mentioned something often overlooked. Team chemistry. With the understanding that it takes professional athletes a long time with near constant practice to build chemistry it has to be understood that most paintball teams will not achieve good chemistry without at least months of playing together. A team leader on field can help overcome this, but how many teams have more than one or two guys on field that have the ability to lead effectively. Most don't have any who can do it in the spur of the moment to a degree to overcome lack of chemistry.

The funny thing with my old team is, although I may "gripe" about it we parted on my terms. I saw it coming and volunteered to go when they felt it was right. I was offered to head the "B" team if I wanted to and declined it. Technically I trademarked the logo for protection of the team and that is in my name (actually its one of the few assetts my paintball company owns). But there was no bitterness in the split, the fact of the matter is I still count every person who I played with on that team as a friend. We started a team as friends and when I was no longer on that team we were still friends - there was a week of being annoyed by it, but I got over it. You know this I'm sure. In the end, friendships are far more important than any aspect of this game.

[phizz]

Just my quick comment.

I think its a low blow to you. Also if your team is doing well now, why would your Captain try to change it? Doesn't seem like a very good Captains decision to me. I also 100% agree with Lohman446, team chemistry isn't something to be taken lightly.

I call foul on your Captains decision.

I would like to think that as a 31 year old who has played paintball since the days of the early pgp I still have something to offer over 18 year olds. A good sense of the game, use of angles, snap shooting, etc., all get better with practice.