Zomg!! My mag performed flawlessly at SPPL

[mostpeople]

I was somehow able to hit full auto on the RT bounce from my x-valve + ult.. and it was amazing!!! I got it so good that I could just hold it for as long as I want (first time) and that was on the field!! Poor guy on the other end too, kinda got lit up.. but the balls were in the air nothing I could do.

Everyone was envious - all the ion runners were loving meh mag. And I gotta say I would never run any other marker for a tournament!

Heres to you AGD :cheers:

-most

[Chronobreak]

sppl was allowing an rt in run away mode...

and no one bothered to say anything/check guns?

i dont know if i should congratulate you or be angry... :confused:

[craltal]

Too bad it's illegal to use that in a tournament

[biojuggernaut]

Yea... The Rt effect is illegal in almost every tourney, legue, and is even illegal at most feilds for most regular day feilds.

[Lohman446]

I'm waiting for the people who despise ramping to praise this....

[mostpeople]

http://scenariochallenge.com/rules_full.php


Full Auto: If the host field permits full-auto mode for paintball markers, then the game shall likewise permit full-auto mode limited to 15bps on all markers.


All blowback, electronically assisted blow-back/blow-forward and mechanical markers are permitted so long as they shoot under 15bps. These classes of markers are permitted to use any hopper they see fit to feed paintball's into their marker.



Electro-pneumatic markers that use a pneumatic solenoid: (Angels, Matrix and all variants, Shocker, Ion, Nerve, Electronic Auto Cockers, ICD Bushmasters, Freestyle's etc…) shall not be able to use a force feed hopper or any other agitated hopper that has an advertised feed rate above 15 balls per second. (Note: see Paintball Marker and Loader Rules at the end of this document for a detailed listing.)


SPPL PAINTBALL MARKER AND LOADER RULES

Any marker not normally allowed at the host field
Grenade or rocket launchers firing multiple projectiles (shotgun rounds)
Any marker designed to fire larger than .68 caliber style paintball pellets
Any marker designed to fire smaller than .68 caliber paintball pellets (i.e. RAP 4)
Any paintball marker that has more than two barrels
Any paintball marker that has been ADJUSTED to fire or more than 15 balls per second. Markers that are capable of more than 15 bps are permitted however they must be set to fire at15 BPS or Lower
Any marker (at the discretion of an SPPL official or host field owner) that appears to be in an unsafe operational mode or condition
Any marker that the SPPL feels is unsafe or may violate one or more of the above conditions
Any electro-pneumatic* marker that is used in conjunction with ANY electronic force feed loader or with an advertised feed rate above 15 balls per second**
Important Note: Owners of purely mechanical markers, blowback and sear trippers may use any loader they choose.


So I went over to the SPPL website, and checked up on the rules (again). And basically found nothing againt RT's in the rules. Considering that just about every team had tippman RT's and the host field DID allow them - I dont understand how you can say it was illegal.

Heck I even showed it off to a REF buddy of mine before the friggin tournament and he said nothing, and I never got penalized. This is SPPL, not NPPL or anything like speedball. Oh and they didnt do a BPS test on me officially, but I did test it out to 12/13 BPS. Which is of course legal.

?

[craltal]

the rules state that full auto is alright as long as it's limited to 15bps or less. explain to me how you set your bps limit.

You don't have a "full auto" mag, you have a run-away mag. You may not see the difference, but the refs should have not allowed that gun on the field

[mostpeople]

I tested it, and it hit 12/13 bps.. and I tested it multiple times. Like I said also, the first time this ever happened to me (this runaway) was on the field.. i had never seen it before only heard about it.

plus people were running away on their tippman RT's all weekend, its fine in SPPL. Just cant do more than 15 - which I wasnt.

[craltal]

NO, IT IS NOT FINE, IT IS NOT SAFE>

You are describing a gun that is firing in an uncontrolled manner. Period. Just because the refs were negligent doesn't mean that what you are describing is permitted. An RT is capable of firing over 15bps.

[wjr]

With an RT tippmann there is an element of control there. That's not the case with your automag. The two cannot be compared.

[Chronobreak]

With an RT tippmann there is an element of control there. That's not the case with your automag. The two cannot be compared.

really?

ive seen both set in a manor in which pulling 1 shot was difficult to impossible without laying 2-3 more. and too easy to not fully release the trigger and let out more paint.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE..., though you may feel that your setup is more safe...i can assure it is far from what i personaly consider "safe"

[mostpeople]

But my hopper feeds 14/15 bps second anyways.. guys it was not doing more than 15 bps I garauntee that.. its impossible.

[mostpeople]

acually, more the the point, some guy was running 21 bps on a tippman A5 RT out there, it was crazy modded with qev's and the aluminum parts, and yet he still played with it.

[mostpeople]

Im just waiting for the hypocrits who love ramping to criticize bounce. ;) :rolleyes:

Maybe it already happened? :)


-Either way guys it happened once on the field, and the guy on the receiving end only got 4 balls, and I was lit up way worse throughout the weekend so, in the future I will be careful, but everything was legal and safe at this tournament. I am not that irresponsible, and trust me I would never on purpose light someone up or cheat. 3 refs checked my marker on multiple occasions, I did a BPS test multiple times and I never violated any of the rules.

[mostpeople]

Not in the SPPL.




That is simple. Just use a hopper that doesnt feed more than 15 bps.



Actually, his mag is not "run-away". Run-away refers to pulling the trigger and not being able to stop it from firing. Full-auto means you pull the trigger, it shoots multiple balls, until you let go of the trigger, then it stops.

as soon as I released the trigger it stopped firing, so it wasnt runaway i guess its just bounce right? Because it wasnt full auto, it was full-auto like..

[mostpeople]

By the way the "holding it as long as I want" comment was after the tournament, dry firing it.

I hit the full auto for about 7 balls, and thats what got my attention, I couldnt hold it until after the competition.

[mostpeople]

Yeah man, it was so quiet too! I could shoot people from maybe 100 yards away and they wouldnt even hear a thing! On one of the fields I was able to move up the middle (a swampy/tree covered area) and just pick people off on the paths to either side... I will never use another marker in a competition again. I am a mag-conver/cultist!!

[CKY_Alliance]

Actually, it is controlled in full-auto. When you pull the trigger, it fires, when you let go of the trigger, it stops firing.



I may be mistaken, but haven't you said in the past that ramping is not controllable?

[CKY_Alliance]

Not that I am aware of. One thing ramping is, is controllable. Its just controllable by a computer. If you can find where I said that, Id be surprised.

One thing I have said is that ramping, full-auto, bounce, runaway....doesnt require shooting skill. And since this is a shooting sport, it should require shooting skill.

Ahh yes that was it my mistake..thats why I asked.

[wjr]

really?

ive seen both set in a manor in which pulling 1 shot was difficult to impossible without laying 2-3 more. and too easy to not fully release the trigger and let out more paint.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE..., though you may feel that your setup is more safe...i can assure it is far from what i personaly consider "safe"

Really? I didn't think that was the case.

I stand corrected.

[jade_monkey07]

NO, IT IS NOT FINE, IT IS NOT SAFE>

You are describing a gun that is firing in an uncontrolled manner. Period. Just because the refs were negligent doesn't mean that what you are describing is permitted. An RT is capable of firing over 15bps.

first off he said he tested it at 12-13, yes rt can go faster but not if you dont have super high input pressure. my tac one only hits 13 if my hopper is moving things perfectly, if not its closer to 10. i cant believe your telling us that 13 balls per second isnt safe when some of the high end electros are running up to 25 if someone has the fingers for it in semi...

[Lohman446]

It always happens bro. Dont sweat it. And dont let any hypocrits who shoot ramping criticize you for shooting a bounce/full-auto marker. They are the same. These hypocrits just want to hold you to a different set of standards than they hold for themselves.

They want to convince themselves that their *technology* gives them an advantage that the mag didnt already have a decade ago with the mags *old* technology.

Some of the people criticizing you are the ones who shoot ramping. ASTM doesnt distinguish between a ramping marker, and a full-auto marker, and a run-away marker. To say your marker is unsafe also means they are saying ramping is unsafe. Anything that shoots more than 1 ball per pull/release is the same.
!


A ramping marker is shooting as it is designed and within parameters generally defined under certain rules. It is far more controllable.

A mag in bounce is functioning in a condition that is considered a malfunction by the manufacturer.

I'm not holding any different standards. You want to use a mag on bounce on the field, and can prove control over it, I could care less. But don't claim something that isn't so.

Did you chrono is such a matter that you considered the velocity climb associated with uncontrolled bounce? Before Im told it does not exist.


In fact it was always public knowledge (thats why SP tried to have it banned when the Shocker was outlawed). We quoted a chrono procedure from day one where you hold the trigger back, release and fire quickly to see the effect of velocity climb and take that into account. Runaway was never allowed in tournaments so velocity climb at those rates was not a factor.

AGD

Personally where I play the rule is simple. As long as your marker quits shooting when you let your finger off the trigger, and is not set to simple full auto (I would not consider sweat spotting "simple" full auto, and my opinion in that call probably matters) its allowed. However, there are penalties if you break more than 4 balls on a player in an single aggressive move.

So no, to those defending bounce and attacking ramping in the same post, I don't think I am being a hypocrite, but you might consider the definition of the word.

[mostpeople]

Yes I did their chrono procedure and chrono'd at 255, the limit was 280..

point is guys, I never just held full bounce on the field... I just had it happen for the first time. Once the game was over I experimented and found I could hold it..

but it was friggin awesome lol

[mostpeople]

Also I was just thinking, along with the SPPL rules, a q-bow is an x-valved automag, thus it has RT, and a hopper that feeds 56 bps... since its fully mechanical its allowed. Need I say more?

[mag_lover05]

wow, everyone jumped to conclusions... glad to hear you enjoyed your mag! and yes, a super RT on a tippmann is FAR more dangerous than your mag (sounded to be) because the stock RT fittings and hoses are 1/16th diameter and the super RT is 1/8th, therefore allowing (personal test on my 98c) 23bps sustained because of twice the airflow. yea, none of you will believe it, untill someone out there unleashes on you (i got penalized, therefore took it off)

[Russ]

Oh, and for the record for those who dont know....I believe in semi-auto only. Its the only true measure of our shooting skill agaisnt others.



AMEN to that! :)

[Lomarandil]

No No No..

You can't just tell us you were at the SPPL, and not say anything more..

How dare you, sir?

Lo

[mostpeople]

lol, ok yeah our team placed 8th, but thats because we got rocked by crosstown on game 1... they won the tournament last year, and this year.

Game 2 was literally dead even, and I was wearing the commander tape. We got airstrike, but the ref's did not call it the way I asked them to, and therefore it was ineffective. However the game was literally dead even but they won by 4 points.

The last game was on the woodsball field, and we literally shut the other team down, I got into the trench in the middle of the field and was able to pick people off left and right on the trails.. I had 14 kills that game. This is the game where my gun started making me really happy. We eventually took their base and held them in it for the rest of the game - while it was flying our flag.

:headbang:

[Lohman446]

I havent seen anyone attack ramping but defend bounce in this thread. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If ramp is allowed, so should bounce.




ASTM doesnt distinguish between a ramping marker, and a full-auto marker, and a run-away marker. To say your marker is unsafe also means they are saying ramping is unsafe. Anything that shoots more than 1 ball per pull/release is the same.

Its just a way for them to dog on the mag. Well, now you know that in any given situation the mag can keep up and/or exceed the super-markers of today.Wanna shoot strictly semi? The mag can keep up! Want to shoot ramp/full-auto? The mag can keep up! .

I would have considered the first part to be an attack on ramping, and the second a glorification of bounce.

And there is a vast difference between something operating in a way this is designed to be controlled and a malfunction that may or may not be controllable.

[p8ntbal4me]

In the real world of all things weapons: Bounce and full-auto are COMPLETELY different.

Like Rogue said,... each mode/fire has its measure of controllability over its usage.

The problem mags have is the effect the design on the valve to produce a "simular" effect to a common mode of fire we, as the world, call "full-auto".

In order to have "full-auto", the weapon/marker/gun must use a full "pull and hold" effect from the rest possision to the fire possision.

The problem with the players that dont do their homework is that they see the ease of "mechanical bounce" as "full auto". If you look how mechanical bounce works on a Mag, you can mechanically see that if you pull the trigger and hold it back with continued EQUAL FORCE (<----- this part is key!), then the gun will not bounce. If it does,... it jumps into another catagory of fire called "full-auto", hence bounce and full-auto do not share the same mechanics. They do share the same results for comparable ROF or speed,.. but one is not the same as the other.

Bounce requires a constant manipulation of the trigger assembly in order to achive the desired effect. Hence, now we have 2 types of bounce: Mechanical Bounce & Electronic Bounce.

Another HUGE annoyance over the "bounce" issue is the lable stupid or ignorant players whom do not continue to educate themselves past the tourney lables is how you define the term "bounce".

While I give credit to the people that know the differnce between "full-auto" and "bounce", there is still another level to be had. The battle over bouncing a trigger manually and electronically.

MY OPINION SECTION:
Players that can set their e-markers to use the "noise" in the trigger to bounce I feel should not be allowed to as most places set the standards. Players that use non-electronic markers should be allowed to mechanically modify their markers to shoot in a method that allows them to compete with the "other" e-markers speed.

I will use the local field to me as an example:
The rule is semi-auto. Nothing but semi-auto. No electronic bounce, no ramping, no full-auto, no auto response, no turbo. The shot buffer/multiplier must be 1.0 per trigger pull.
If one player has a Shocker, he must not beable to bounce the trigger. He can shoot any ROF he wishes.

Another player has an R/T Pro. Because his gun already inherantly has no ability to ramp, shot buffer, etc. these rules do not apply to him. He is allowed to bounce his trigger at any ROF he wishes. He however can not have a "run-away" gun as it is not safe and violates the rules of the field.

That section, again, is my opinion and the rules of where I play.
I personally agree with semi-auto for most cases on fields, except where the rules allow a bunch of idiot kids to set their guns into some ramp mode and use that, but a manual mag player cant bounce his trigger to keep up with the "ramping idiots".
I play where I play because the field sees the difference in bounce and full-auto. Guys that want to ramp but cant ALWAYS complain that Im bouncing my mag on the field. EVEN when I play pickup tourney ball as a stand in,.. and we are allowed to ramp at uncapped ROF,.. THEY STILL COMPLAIN! So that right there says to me that they either dont like the AGD marker out shooting their $1,800 EGOs, or they are just the same "tourney-clique-drone" that we all love to hate at the field every weekend we play.

Personally, I love bouncing my trigger and sending them running just because I know it makes them go crying to the judges. Last year in a big game 3 players I sent packing DRAGGED a judge over and showed him my gun. His reply: "Its a mag,.. thats what they do. Hes playing by the rules, you want to shoot like that, go get a mag."

I know the real world of weapon systems are not paintball. We try very hard to separate the 2. Problem with modes of fire is that we share them as a common bound. If its full-auto in a M240G machine gun,.. its full-auto in any paintball gun. If its 3 round burst on a M16A2, its 3 rounds burst on an WDP Angel LED. If its semi-auto on a M4, its semi-auto on a 2006 Shocker SFT. Modes that our sport made up currently as we know them, the real world would have to take into account if they used them.

[mostpeople]

Alrighty, went over and got a rule clarification, these rules were approved by the director of SPPL..


SPPL Generally Allowed Markers

All pump markers.

All non-electronic 68 and 62 caliber markers.

All Spyder and Illustrator based blow-back markers including those using the factory electronic grip frame.

All mechanical Autocockers, Automags and other purely mechanical markers.

All Tippmanns including those using response trigger (if allowed by host field) and all Tippmann factory electronic grip frames.

Mechanical markers using a response-style trigger (if allowed by field.)

Automags with Center-Flag Hyperframe.

Autocockers with Sandridge electronic conversion.

Full auto, response, turbo, and burst modes that are not within the disallowed list if allowed by the host fields rules.


The host field allowed it, it wasnt shooting over 15bps, and many people did it... the issue should be dead now.

[Arstron]

Alrighty, went over and got a rule clarification, these rules were approved by the director of SPPL..



The host field allowed it, it wasnt shooting over 15bps, and many people did it... the issue should be dead now.


The issue isnt you specificlly, this happens everytime somone brings up a bouncing automag. ;)

Horay for pump!

[mostpeople]

This is the last place I expected to see people hate on automags...

[p8ntbal4me]

The issue isnt you specificlly, this happens everytime somone brings up a bouncing automag. ;)

Horay for pump!


What pump u got boss?

I rock a GX-3 Sniper II (CCM pump kit)

[p8ntbal4me]

This is the last place I expected to see people hate on automags...


Its not a personal attack on you or mags,... its the fact of the RARE chance to see a mag allowed to bounce in a tourney, IMHO.

MOST cases of fields and events unlike the one you played in do not allow bouncing because of the problems now with e-markers.

Personally I think you did good on the mag community for running one on a field that a tourney was held. For that you should thank yourself!

The topic switched over to more of a fire mode and rule issue rather than what you may feel is "hate" for mags. Theres a few other threads like this on here,.. and the same people are in the discusion.

All in all Most,... you did good. No "hate" from me. Glad to see a mag on a legal event format,... now you have to make it a more regular thing!

[Arstron]

What pump u got boss?

I rock a GX-3 Sniper II (CCM pump kit)

Well I did just recently get rid of my phantom so I have been pumpless for awhile, but am in the process of building another stock class mag, just waiting on jay to get those pump ktis finished. ;)

[p8ntbal4me]

Well I did just recently get rid of my phantom so I have been pumpless for awhile, but am in the process of building another stock class mag, just waiting on jay to get those pump ktis finished. ;)


Slacker.

I bought a radio dog collar for him next time he gets out of line.

Simple press of a button and hes back in action!

[93civiccpe]

My 2 cents on this subject...

First, my background:
Player and paintball tech for the better part of the last decade.

My playing style:
Semi-only with bounce tuned out...


My thoughts on this topic:
I am fortunate to have a group of guys at a church I attend who go out regularly to play, and the majority of the time it is woodsball on a setup on private propery. Anyways, our rules were generally "anything goes" for modes, because you only have the air an paint you brought with you, so if you ran out of air/paint your day was over early. Some of us do haul scuba tanks out with us, so typically air isn't a big problem.

Anyways, we've had a lot of player use spyders with full auto or burst, and never had a real problem. You let go of the trigger and the firing stops. I have many mags, but I do not tune mine to go reactive. Probably because I am very conservative when it comes to paint and usually try to one-ball everyone. (I love taking a phantom pump against the team of electros and picking them off). Anyways, I've always made sure that anyone using a reactive marker have it set not to go to runaway.

Well, in the past we've had relatively no issues. A couple people getting overshot but nothing really bad. The last couple of times out, we've had some serious issues though. A lot of our younger guys with autocockers got e2's or e1's with the zero-b boards and had their ramping set up insane. Anyways, I watched a teammate two rounds in a row get shot, put his hands up and turn, and then still get hit with 10+ paintballs. I know a good bit of that is the shooters fault for not stopping soon enough, but the fact that some of their markers in ramping mode will throw 3 or 4 paintballs after you let go of the trigger is what bothers me about the ramping mode. That has caused the amount of people getting overshot to increase and a lot of tension (and almost a fight) at a field of guys who are usually very calm-natured and friends with each other.

In a tournament setting where everyone has ramping available, I think it is perfectly fine. But we've had to re-look at how we want to play because we have a lot of kids still playing with stock tippman 98's or mechanical spyders. The remarks we got last time was "I can walk it to 15 anyways, so it doesn't matter". My response was, and will always be, "then do it, and stop complaining". We played the last round out there with electro markers only being allowed in semi, and the reactivity tuned back on the mechanicals which were set up with an RT setup. And surprisingly enough we had one of the best days with the fewest complaints. We did catch 2 who had switched their marker to ramp and it was obvious.. you can hear when a marker ramps. They got sat down for a couple rounds and were told that if they did it again they were going home. No problems after that.

From my own experience, here's what I've found:

-Any RT marker in run-away is uncontrollable..
-A ramping marker can still throw a few paintballs after the trigger is released, so in my opinion that is not completely controllable, and can still lead to people being overshot.
-A properly tuned RT marker which stops shooting as soon as the trigger is released is no different than a full auto electro, as long as you chrono it using the methods described by a previous poster (and Tom Kaye) to account for the increase of velocity as it goes reactive.

Just my 2 cents..

[p8ntbal4me]

From my own experience, here's what I've found:

-Any RT marker in run-away is uncontrollable..
-A ramping marker can still throw a few paintballs after the trigger is released, so in my opinion that is not completely controllable, and can still lead to people being overshot.
-A properly tuned RT marker which stops shooting as soon as the trigger is released is no different than a full auto electro, as long as you chrono it using the methods described by a previous poster (and Tom Kaye) to account for the increase of velocity as it goes reactive.

Just my 2 cents..


Im not going to argue your point and opinions here, just wanted to clarify 2 small things (I know you ment them this way but it may read a bit different, bare with me)

-A properly tuned ASTM (sp?) standards marker mode of "ramp" will not allow the extra shots past the release of the trigger to the rest possition. <---- pretty much why TURBO is not allowed anymore due to the extra shots are honored no matter if the trigger was releases or not.

But in most cases like you said,.. they do give the extra because players crank the debounce up to an unsafe level.

The other opinion is yours,... and based on your post above,... your opinion of R/T to full-auto will work for you. Not going to argue your point of safety 93. :cheers:

[Pneumagger]

wow, everyone jumped to conclusions... glad to hear you enjoyed your mag! and yes, a super RT on a tippmann is FAR more dangerous than your mag (sounded to be) because the stock RT fittings and hoses are 1/16th diameter and the super RT is 1/8th, therefore allowing (personal test on my 98c) 23bps sustained because of twice the airflow. yea, none of you will believe it, untill someone out there unleashes on you (i got penalized, therefore took it off)

Actually, dicounting shear flow losses, if the diameter is doubled the flow area is quadrupled. And then there's the pressure differences that can result in Mag's having a faster ultimate recharge. But yeah, we get your point - and I agree that the way his mag apears to be was way safer than an RT Tippy. Those high bounce RT tippy's are tough to get single shots off with.

And also... I for one believe that NXL full auto is the safest of all "enhanced modes". It allows both the firing of 1 or 2 solo shots, as well as full auto capability. On a full auto, when you release the trigger the gun stops that moment. On a "ramping" marker (PSP, OMFG, # shots/pull added) the marker predeterminately continues to fire after you release the trigger - you can succinctly stop the gun, especially in some of these crazy "+15 per pull" cheater type modes. In short... it's easier to overshoot someone in assisted ramping versus full auto.

[Pneumagger]

-Any RT marker in run-away is uncontrollable..
-A ramping marker can still throw a few paintballs after the trigger is released, so in my opinion that is not completely controllable, and can still lead to people being overshot.
-A properly tuned RT marker which stops shooting as soon as the trigger is released is no different than a full auto electro, as long as you chrono it using the methods described by a previous poster (and Tom Kaye) to account for the increase of velocity as it goes reactive.

Just my 2 cents..

You can control the ROF of a so-called "runnaway" mag with your finger or the pressure. Don't argue this - there is video evidence that proves your point wrong. Also, "runaway" refers a gn that is uncontrollably shotting and cannot be stopped. A reactive mag can be controlled to start, stop, or not do it all together based on how hard you pull the trigger. "Reactive mag" is a far more approprite term for bouncy mags than "runaway".

I do agree with you on added shot ramping though. That is in it's own class. I personally think that there are 3 main classes (each with subdivisions, of course) - pump, semi, ramping, full auto. IMO RT can either be full auto or semi depending on the user is employing it.

[craltal]

Fine, he "bounced." That said I still have issue with it due to the nature of how it's achieved. You are taking the mechanical operations and playing with them in a manner that it was not designed for, potentially leading to undue wear on parts which will lead to a failure of the deemed "control."

I give you kudos for not using it during the games and I'm not hating on mags or you. Obviously my opinion differs from some others here.

[mostpeople]

So we agree to disagree...


I for one however beleive that a sear designed to push the trigger back out, is designed to help it bounce - but again thats personal opinion.

[craltal]

So we agree to disagree...



agreed.

:cheers:

[turbo chicken]

those rules rock ...

simplified ... limit your feed rate thus limit your ROF ... best rule ever ... so bust out your old revy and go to town ...

[p8ntbal4me]

Fine, he "bounced." That said I still have issue with it due to the nature of how it's achieved. You are taking the mechanical operations and playing with them in a manner that it was not designed for, potentially leading to undue wear on parts which will lead to a failure of the deemed "control."

I give you kudos for not using it during the games and I'm not hating on mags or you. Obviously my opinion differs from some others here.


You cant put this label on the AGD R/T though,.... clearly stated in the promo video,.. it was AGD key point to the release of this marker. They state it many times in the video.

My opinion is that the designation between Mech-bounce and E-bounce needs to have different rules for different events. Bounce is bounce for about 90% of us. The rest that educate and wish to learn beyond the hype see different (again,... first part is opinion, second part is not)

Rogue:

I was reading a bit on the safety standards for the industry as far as insurnace guidelines. In reference to event promotion (not regular field use), modes of fire such as PSP, NXL, and Millenium were shown the support of these standards due to concent of the insurance covering the event, not the field. Do I have that backwards or something Im not aware of?

Edit: I believe this is where Wicked Air Sportz complaint about PSP/ramping comes in correct?

Just asking,.....

[RogueFactor]

Rogue:

I was reading a bit on the safety standards for the industry as far as insurnace guidelines. In reference to event promotion (not regular field use), modes of fire such as PSP, NXL, and Millenium were shown the support of these standards due to concent of the insurance covering the event, not the field. Do I have that backwards or something Im not aware of?

Edit: I believe this is where Wicked Air Sportz complaint about PSP/ramping comes in correct?

Just asking,.....

ASTM is a standards organization that set the safety standards for the paintball industry a decade ago. These standards do not include ramping modes. Not unless they have been recently, and secretly changed.

Having the consent of the insurance company is not the same as having ASTM consent. Insurance companies and fields can do whatever they want. They just open themselves to much larger risk, and liability, by not following the ASTM standards should something unfortunate happen.

[p8ntbal4me]

Okay everyone,.... I got to add some fuel to this fire cause its going to kill me and keep me up all night if I dont!

Follow this link here: PSP Rules 2007 (http://www.pspevents.com/uploads/Rules/PSP2007RulesGeneral.pdf)

Page 15 of 19.

Small print #53. The way that section reads,... bouncing is LEGAL in the PSP for mech markers with a cap of 15bps.

I'll say that again,.. MECH MARKERS BOUNCING are legal with a ROF cap of 15bps!

If you dont want to go look at it,... here is the paste in:

53 The rate will be measured by the shortest time between two shots. Players whose markers have no electronic components and
fire no more than one shot per press and release of the trigger will not be penalized under 3.5. (If you have a mechanical marker
and your trigger is slightly sloppy, but you never fire faster than 65 ms between shots, you’re ok. If you have a mechanical marker
that sometimes fires faster than 65 ms between shots and your trigger is absolutely, positively, no-slop-whatsoever semi-auto,
you’re ok. If you have a bouncy trigger and exceed 15 bps you’ll be penalized.)

[Pneumagger]

those rules rock ...

simplified ... limit your feed rate thus limit your ROF ... best rule ever ... so bust out your old revy and go to town ...

That's not a bad idea. They should just have a 15bps tourney lock on the halos and then it doesn't matter what the heck kinda gun people are toting.

[Pneumagger]

Okay everyone,.... I got to add some fuel to this fire cause its going to kill me and keep me up all night if I dont!

Follow this link here: PSP Rules 2007 (http://www.pspevents.com/uploads/Rules/PSP2007RulesGeneral.pdf)

Page 15 of 19.

Small print #53. The way that section reads,... bouncing is LEGAL in the PSP for mech markers with a cap of 15bps.

I'll say that again,.. MECH MARKERS BOUNCING are legal with a ROF cap of 15bps!

If you dont want to go look at it,... here is the paste in:

53 The rate will be measured by the shortest time between two shots. Players whose markers have no electronic components and
fire no more than one shot per press and release of the trigger will not be penalized under 3.5. (If you have a mechanical marker
and your trigger is slightly sloppy, but you never fire faster than 65 ms between shots, you’re ok. If you have a mechanical marker
that sometimes fires faster than 65 ms between shots and your trigger is absolutely, positively, no-slop-whatsoever semi-auto,
you’re ok. If you have a bouncy trigger and exceed 15 bps you’ll be penalized.)
:confused: huh?

What about the Highlighted bold red part?

Also I'm fairly certain that an RT auto effect does not constitue a "press and release". That term refers to your finger's action pressing and releasing. In reality, you are continually pressing and the trigger is intermittently pressing back - there is no release anywhere when bouncing.

[p8ntbal4me]

That's not a bad idea. They should just have a 15bps tourney lock on the halos and then it doesn't matter what the heck kinda gun people are toting.

Good idea,.. no way to enforce it.

They have a hard enough time with PACTs on the field,.... could you imagine the technology investment it would take to check loaders?

I mean,.. look at it from how things are now.

You have caps on guns for 15bps,.. and the loaders are uncapped.
Even now, guns SOMEHOW increase in ROF durring play.

Flip that from gun to loaders,.... same thing is going to happen. The gun can be uncapped, and the loader SOMEHOW will increase ROF durring play.

Only way they are every going to stop this crazy cheating crap or "unsafe" gun issues is to make the penalties STUPID sufferage for anyone doing it. Im not talking like the PSP minor 15 point penalty per instance per game,.... Im talking 3 for 1 style penalties.

Do that a few times and get them hooked on it,.... they will wise up a bit.

Either that or change the rules to uncapped ROF like the ASTM supports,.. and re-live the semi auto rule once again.

[p8ntbal4me]

:confused: huh?

What about the Highlighted bold red part?

Also I'm fairly certain that an RT auto effect does not constitue a "press and release". That term refers to your finger's action pressing and releasing. In reality, you are continually pressing and the trigger is intermittently pressing back - there is no release anywhere when bouncing.


Same thing can be said for an electronic marker using the bounce ( trigger filter in the electronics ).

What I mean is CLEALY what they printed. All the red line says is If your ROF is above 15 your are illegal. That statement relates boucning triggers to a ROF cap. That would not have to be printed if bouncing your trigger was not legal.