They should make an aluminum classic valve

[MuKen]

I think a lot of people prefer the classic valve, except for its noticeably higher weight over the x-valve. For one thing, it takes CO2 if you need to, and for another, I believe it is more consistent if you're not using an electric trigger.

Here's my reasoning, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. From the air pressure graphs AGD put out on their RT and X-valves, from the moment you release the trigger the chamber pressure spikes up, and then lowers back down due to the temperature increase and then cooldown from the sudden gas influx, before levelling off somewhere after the .2-.3 seconds mark.

Thus, the velocity you get will vary depending on your trigger pull speed, unless you stay below about 4bps. The only way to make it consistent at higher speeds is to have an electric trigger, and either be ramping or be using a capped semi such that you make the intervals between your shots very regular.

Conversely, the classic valve has no such temperature-based velocity spike, and will only suffer shootdown past 13-15 bps. Thus, if you are shooting a mechanical trigger, meaning

1) there's no way you can keep the intervals between your shots exactly the same
2) you're probably not exceeding the recharge of the classic valve

then the classic valve will yield higher consistency in a string than the x-valve. And even if you are using an electric trigger, I think a classic valve is usually still preferable, just so that your first shot will have the same velocity as the rest of the shots in the string. Besides, when using an electric trigger since the on/off is immediately released after firing the recharge of the classic valve is better. It should be easily high enough for any ROF you'd reasonably expect to use in a game.

Thus, I would rather shoot a classic valve most of the time, except that when I use one, my marker feels a little back-heavy. Hence why I think we should have an aluminum classic...

[thefool]

:rolleyes: nope not right at all

x valve has a much faster recharge, just more constricted airways that will freeze much more easially if frozen. It shouldnt be hard for them to make an aluminum classic vavle if there were to be a lot of demand for one.

[neppo1345]

I think a lot of people prefer the classic valve, except for its noticeably higher weight over the x-valve. For one thing, it takes CO2 if you need to, and for another, I believe it is more consistent if you're not using an electric trigger.

Here's my reasoning, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. From the air pressure graphs AGD put out on their RT and X-valves, from the moment you release the trigger the chamber pressure spikes up, and then lowers back down due to the temperature increase and then cooldown from the sudden gas influx, before levelling off somewhere after the .2-.3 seconds mark..

You do realize that to get into that .2-.3 second range (where there would be a noticeable difference) you would have to have two consecutive pulls that average around 50 bps.

Just Sayin'...

[punkncat]

Been there , said that, not gonna happen.

[MuKen]

:rolleyes: nope not right at all

x valve has a much faster recharge, just more constricted airways that will freeze much more easially if frozen. It shouldnt be hard for them to make an aluminum classic vavle if there were to be a lot of demand for one.

What was not right? I'm not talking about the speed of recharge at all, Im' talking about the fact that the x-valve does not have an 'even' recharge.


You do realize that to get into that .2-.3 second range (where there would be a noticeable difference) you would have to have two consecutive pulls that average around 50 bps.

Just Sayin'...

Uh? .2-.3 second range is two consecutive balls that average around 4bps. The entire time from 0 sec to .2-ish has constantly changing pressure in the chamber, so unless you wait at least .2-.3 sec between every shot, you will not get consistent shots. Thus, you'd have to limit yourself to < 4bps to get consistent shots, OR you'd have to shoot super-fast to stay at the top of the recharge pressure curve. The x-valve doesn't seem very conducive to just firing at a normal rof.

[nevtangle]

The x-valve shoots very well at any rate of fire. Any spike in velocity is not noticable at all. Have you ever shot one?

[Russ]

An aluminum Classic valve would cost the same to manufacture as an X-Valve, and would undoubtedly retail for what an X-Valve sells for...

...that said, which would YOU buy? The overwhelming answer is the X-Valve.

[rellikmok]

An aluminum Classic valve would cost the same to manufacture as an X-Valve, and would undoubtedly retail for what an X-Valve sells for...

...that said, which would YOU buy? The overwhelming answer is the X-Valve.

Aside from those people that don't have access to compressed air and only CO2. Or prefer the use of C02 to compressed air. :rolleyes:

[nevtangle]

Aside from those people that don't have access to compressed air and only CO2. Or prefer the use of C02 to compressed air. :rolleyes:
True but, the numbers would be so few that I can't see AGD making another valve. If I only had access to co2 I would just deal with the weight difference rather than paying the extra for an alum classic valve.

[warbeak2099]

True but, the numbers would be so few that I can't see AGD making another valve. If I only had access to co2 I would just deal with the weight difference rather than paying the extra for an alum classic valve.

QFT

[egb groupie]

This topic has brought up before. I believe it was TK that said once the RT/Xvalve were put out, all attention to classic valves stopped, as well as production. All the classic valves that AGD sells now on the pro classic, etc is just leftover inventory.

[StygShore]

At one time there was a poll put out by Tom, I think he asked if we wanted ligther triggers, or the ability to use CO2 on Xvalves. The majority chose lighter triggers.

Now that AGD is caterring more tot he scenario type of play, it might not be a bad option for someone to go ahead with the initial plans of makign a X-valve CO2 compatible.

tom you got those plans you wanna share with a 3rd party? Assumign it was just the replacement of a few internal parts.


Styg

[WalkingTarget]

honestly?

just use a classic valve then! it doesn't weigh that much.

i remember a certain somebody tried making Classic valves out of Titanium, only to find that there wasn't much of a weight savings, and while there might be a weight savings with aluminum... really, what's the difference? a few ounces?

then again, i prefer my markers to feel like they are durable and weigh something, not that they're gonna break if i look a them the wrong way. (i tend to be rather hard on my equipment :shooting: )

[AGDRetro]

I had posted a thread just like this maybe a year ago, and the response was the same and I was convinced that there was little to no point for AGD to produce an aluminum Classic valve. If you want to make you Classic lighter, hunt down a Diamond Labs or Shocktech back half and anodize that aluminum part to match your gun...

[phizz]

wasn't the hurricane back for a classic? I had one that I got with a bunch of used parts I bought. It was an aluminum back as I recall.

[cyrus-the-virus]

if you have the coin I'm sure AGD would make one for you.

I brought this subject up just a few months ago with the same results. It's been said dozans of times.

[wjr]

Didn't RRfireblade do something to x-valves to make them co2 friendly? I remember on a pump mag he made that had an x-valve and 12 grams, he said "co2 is not an issue"....

could be wrong though.

[cyrus-the-virus]

Didn't RRfireblade do something to x-valves to make them co2 friendly? I remember on a pump mag he made that had an x-valve and 12 grams, he said "co2 is not an issue"....

could be wrong though.

He did but it kills the X-valves ROF.

[KayleAGD]

There have been aluminum valves made. There were safety concerns after they were made and I had to send mine back :cry: .. The advantage of weight compared to the lifespan and the burst pressure of aluminum did not make it a desirable product for AGD in my opinion.

The cost to make should be less due to material and tooling.

[RRfireblade]

I've run CO2 on R/T/X's for years with really no problems. You don't have to do anything special but keep the ROF down and the liquid out.

My Pump mods are purley efficiency based and have , shown by on field reports and my own , just about double stock effieciency numbers. In extreme cases a little more than that but at the risk of reliability. The full compliment of those mods definately knock down the max ROF of the the valve tho.

[SR_matt]

i am confused how the "spike" in fps is not noticable supposedly. if i do chrono my gun the "correct" way for a RT/xvalve i get in the 270s but if i do chrono properly or shoot a string i start to hit up in the 290s

-matt

[nevtangle]

i am confused how the "spike" in fps is not noticable supposedly. if i do not chrono my gun the "correct" way for a RT/xvalve i get in the 270s but if i do chrono properly or shoot a string i start to hit up in the 290s

-mattThat was a little comfusing but I think I get what you are saying. You notice ~20 fps increase by using the rt chrono procedure? Wow, I usually see around 8-10 at the most.

What input pressure? Mines 850

[SR_matt]

ya 850 from a guerilla air tank,

thats on the extream side but i do get that jump.

o ya thanks for the correction on my post, trying to do too many things at one

-matt

[MuKen]

Well to be honest, I too am only seeing about 20fps spiking over the chrono which hasn't really affected my gameplay on the field (I just re-aim and compensate for the increasing velocity as I fire). It's simply a matter of being a perfectionist and wanting to know I'm getting rock steady chrono all the time. I don't like thinking I'm getting velocities that vary by 20fps whenever I'm shooting a string.

I don't like the classic valve, because the weight difference IS very very noticeable (I don't care what anybody's saying about it not being a big deal...). It's more a matter of what it does to the balance than how many ounces it's adding, but it's quite irritating. It's trigger pull is also worse, but I shoot with a hyperframe sometimes, and so would like to be able to use a classic in those situations.

It's a shame there isn't enough interest to actually do a run of them though. Sorry, didn't know this topic had been discussed before.

[SR_matt]

i dont have to much of a problem with the spike, infact i am fine with it because i normaly shoot more than 1 ball at a time (i prefer to tripple tap at least, jsut got in the habbit froma good freind, ironicly the same guy that got me to play pump). i play a lot of scenarios and since the chrono limit is lower than the safe limit any spikes are still safe, some times over the "field limit" but nothing much.

last scenario game i was rather annoied becasue i had to turn my gun down and it had been really really consistant before i had to adjust it then it went all out of wak, guess it had seated real nicely and got all consistant)

-matt