Ethics question of sorts

[punkncat]

Team cpt. was informed today that a new member of our team owes, and has owned one of our "sub" sponsors money from an event he went to while guesting on their team. This money has been owned for some time, and no attempt has been made by said new member to repay the debt.
The sponsor didn't tell us this to try and get the new guy booted, just as a friendly heads up. He even stated that in no way was he trying to "tell us what to do" about the situation. He did mention it in an attempt to see if we could persuade him into settling the debt to some degree I imagine.

So, this new guy has talent. He could be a valuable asset to the team in that degree. Since joining us there has already been a money issue with him being unable to pay cash for goods at a practice session due to some , as he puts it, mixup with his card. He did settle the debt through a (paintball) goods trade to whom he owed the fees.

What to do about the situation really seems like a no brainer. My first instinct was to tell him to settle the debt with the sponsor or loose his position on the team. Its actually all we can do. We can't have people running tabs around on our name..not to say that he has, but the situation is possible. I suggested to the cpt. that we have him settle his debt, and make him cash then carry to any future dealings including drills, practice, etc. IE. IF he wants to go, he needs to pay the team cpt. for any expected costs before he loads up to go.

Is it worth taking a chance on the situation in order to utilize his field talent? Or would you just wash your hands of it, and search for another guy?

[SCpoloRicker]

I'm responding in a 'business-mode' sort of tone, so if I come across pretty aggressive, keep that in mind. :)

I think that it is very important for you to build and maintain the best relationship with your sponsors, especially if you have fairly strong ties (in the PB world :p ) with them already. I'd say that the outstanding debt this player has is already a problem for you.

I'd recommend giving him a fixed time period to make the debt right, and prove that he can contribute his (however decided) share of team expenses. It may or may not be worthwhile to partially support him, i.e. free/discount on paint, event fee, etc. I would want to see him maintain whatever you agree on for a few months before feeling comfortable as well.

If he does not cover his previous debt, I think that if you can financially afford to do so, your team should cover the debt your new player owes your sponsor. He's now on your team, and he reflects upon you.

I would never allow my budget to be spent on a team that has players that actively remove even more of my budget, let alone the lack of respect.

[Ninjeff]

hmm. interesting situation. Sometimes people fall on hard times, and need a boost to help them get by, Thats what friends are for......and it sounds like he tried to settle one debt fairly by trading for some gear.

However, if it seems a "habitual" thing i would say the only good thing to do, for the team, is boot him.

Sure, his talent may be an excellent asset, but one thing ive learned from being in bands for all these years, is that talent doesnt make up for "shadyness" in any sense. In other words, given the option, i will ALWAYS take someone who i can trust, over someone who has more talent. I can teach someone to be good with hard practice. I cant, however, teach them to be trustworthy.

In your case it would seem like getting rid of him would be the way to go before he soils the good name of your team. Sure, maybe you guys are good with him around, but if he starts owing people tons of money, people will stop trusting the team. And thats no way to pick up sponsers.

either way, maybe give him the benifit of the doubt but if he makes a habit of it.........

[madcrisis]

for me it would depend on howmuch of a debt and if the guy is dedicated enough. if he is going to stay with ur team. if the debt is to large id say find another player but if you can all pitch in for a teammate that can aid ur team and make the money back than go for it.

[CONFIRMEDKILL]

Ballpark figure of how much he owes?

[Lohman446]

Lets see, he has had financial issues in the past that he has not settled - directly related to PB. He has already had a "mix up on his credit card" that was settled by trading goods.

Unless you are ok with loaning him money as a friend - friend not teammate - ditch him now. No good can come from someone who cannot financially commit to the team. As you have detailed before this is becoming a "serious" team and requires a serious commitment both financially and in time.

[SummaryJudgement]

Money talks, business is business..........

If someone owes you money, shouldn't they be expected to pay you? I used to work at the field I played at to pay for my gear and paint. If he can't provide cash, is there anything else he can do? Can he sell some of his gear or dig a few ditches?

It also sound like this other sponsor is fairly nice about the whole situtation. Especially if the guy isn't putting forth any kind of effort to get things straightened out.

As mentioned before, if it's a one time screw-up, maybe just let things play themselves out. If it is a "habitual" thing he needs to be straightened out before he gets sued or drags the rest of the team down.

Just an opinion..........

[PumpMag]

You have to be up front with this guy and not let things slide.

He may be just taking advantage of your team's/captain's/sponsor's flexibility. Money is money. If he is behind, make him pay interest to see if he is serious about the situation and to "encourage" fast payment.

Just because he has exceptional talent should not force you to make special arrangements for his financial responsibilities.

In the long run, favoritism will tear apart your team. Other team members will notice this and you will have an "us" versus "him" situation.

Give him a deadline to man up for his dues. Talent can be replaced with new talent. You can teach a new teammate to be good with experience and patience.

"If you want to play, you have to pay."

[Dark Side]

You have to be up front with this guy and not let things slide.

He may be just taking advantage of your team's/captain's/sponsor's flexibility. Money is money. If he is behind, make him pay interest to see if he is serious about the situation and to "encourage" fast payment.

Just because he has exceptional talent should not force you to make special arrangements for his financial responsibilities.

In the long run, favoritism will tear apart your team. Other team members will notice this and you will have an "us" versus "him" situation.

Give him a deadline to man up for his dues. Talent can be replaced with new talent. You can teach a new teammate to be good with experience and patience.

"If you want to play, you have to pay."

Completely agree. Let him know where you stand. If he does not settle, boot him. Don't let your name be brought down by his actions.

[Tao]

Team cpt. was informed today that a new member of our team owes, and has owned one of our "sub" sponsors money from an event he went to while guesting on their team. This money has been owned for some time, and no attempt has been made by said new member to repay the debt.
The sponsor didn't tell us this to try and get the new guy booted, just as a friendly heads up. He even stated that in no way was he trying to "tell us what to do" about the situation. He did mention it in an attempt to see if we could persuade him into settling the debt to some degree I imagine.

So, this new guy has talent. He could be a valuable asset to the team in that degree. Since joining us there has already been a money issue with him being unable to pay cash for goods at a practice session due to some , as he puts it, mixup with his card. He did settle the debt through a (paintball) goods trade to whom he owed the fees.

What to do about the situation really seems like a no brainer. My first instinct was to tell him to settle the debt with the sponsor or loose his position on the team. Its actually all we can do. We can't have people running tabs around on our name..not to say that he has, but the situation is possible. I suggested to the cpt. that we have him settle his debt, and make him cash then carry to any future dealings including drills, practice, etc. IE. IF he wants to go, he needs to pay the team cpt. for any expected costs before he loads up to go.

Is it worth taking a chance on the situation in order to utilize his field talent? Or would you just wash your hands of it, and search for another guy?

Maintaining intergrity is much more rewarding that winning, at least for me. I would give him plenty of opportunity to prove himself, but if he goes without paying this debt I would suspend him from playing (note there is still that carrot as I did not say boot him). If he has had soe rough times and legitimately can't pay the debt at least for now, I would pay it onhim behalf (depening how much he does owe that is).

[DaFin]

My 2 coppers,

You need to nip this in the bud or it will grow like a cancer. Just imagine a family arguing over money. Unless your team is so good that sponsors flock to you an compete with eachother for you sign with them, you can't afford any bad press / ill will. You need your sponsors more than you need this palyer. Your team has an "internal credit rating" with your sonsors and if that get's too low, they will flush you. The amount of money is not important, that your vendor mentioned it to you IS important. This guy is hurting your "internal credit rating" with your vendors.

I would talk to this individual to discover the extent that he is in debt to your sonsors/team, make it clear that he is not to use his afiliation with the team for extending more credit. Most importantly I would work out a plan with him to set his accounts straight that is specific, attainable, measurable and timely and that if he does not follow the plan, he needs to go.

[Army]

Everyone pays up front. No pay, no play, no excuses.

If he can't front his part of the bill prior to the event, he doesn't go, no exceptions for anyone else on the team either. Soon enough, he will get the hint that personal responsibility comes first.