need help with my OLD mag

[Cytron]

I have a Automag (CF12664) that i havent used in a while.The other day i decided to lube it up and check on its performance.When i gassed it up i could hear a small hiss coming from the back of the regulator and when i shoot it sounds like its trying to suck air and makes a thhhoop type sound and the balls pretty much just fall out of the barrel...maybe going 3-4 feet.
The past few years of playing i noticed a velocity drop off and had to keep creeping my velocity up to play.
Does anyone have any tips on getting my mag back up to snuff? im ordering a parts kits and plan on replacing every possible o-ring on the marker.

ive had my mag for well over a decade and was hoping to get it going with out too large of an investment.


Thanks alot

[Smoothice]

Welcome to the AO family.

Any second now someone with a lot more knowledge then me will tell you exactly what is wrong with your gun.

Can you tell us more about your gun?

Classic Valve? Level 7 Bolt? Are you using HP or CO2?

[Cytron]

Welcome to the AO family.

Any second now someone with a lot more knowledge then me will tell you exactly what is wrong with your gun.

Can you tell us more about your gun?

Classic Valve? Level 7 Bolt? Are you using HP or CO2?


Heya and thanks,

Its a classic valve with a venturi bolt and i run co2.
the gun is pretty much stock and was used heavily for a good 7-9 years.

thanks for your help

[Tao]

Sounds almost like a lube problem. Have you been putting oil into the air supply? Also how is your srping/bolt setup? You aren't supposed to oil them, but I found that a bit of oil there helps with velocity problems.

[Smoothice]

Sounds almost like a lube problem. Have you been putting oil into the air supply? Also how is your srping/bolt setup? You aren't supposed to oil them, but I found that a bit of oil there helps with velocity problems.

You are supposed to put 4-5 drops of paintball gun oil into the asa. Then screw your co2 tank on and dry fire about 20 times. Do this with your barrel off.

[Spider-TW]

Any gas out of the back has to go through the reg piston, either the oring or the safety relief. Usually it's just the oring. The reg spring pack is greased and doesn't really get lube from the ASA oil technique. If you haven't done that oring yet, put it on your rebuild schedule after five years. :D Clean and re-grease the spring pack. Spring packs need love too. Clean the inside of the reg where the oring runs.

Pay attention how many turns you take to get the reg nut out and put it back with a couple less. Better to start on the low side. :)
Damaged Body (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214363)

I think if your reg seat was leaking by and overpressuring the reg piston, you wouldn't get 'blooper' balls.

[Cytron]

thanks for all the awesome feedback guys..

the only place i put oil in those 2 little holes that say Oil...other than that i didnt think it needed it,so i dont think it got into the air supply.

should i order a new spring pack assembly? or should i just clean and regrease it? Also what kind of grease do you guys recommend for this area.

ive ordered a new bolt spring and a mag o-ring replacement kit.


and,does anyone know if AGD is still offering a "trade-in" on vavles below #30,000 or am i way off on this?

thanks again.

[BigTrucker]

WOW I thought my mag was old! :D Mine is CF20983, i just keep thowing o-rings at it every few years just in case. :cheers:

[Tao]

thanks for all the awesome feedback guys..

the only place i put oil in those 2 little holes that say Oil...other than that i didnt think it needed it,so i dont think it got into the air supply.

should i order a new spring pack assembly? or should i just clean and regrease it? Also what kind of grease do you guys recommend for this area.

ive ordered a new bolt spring and a mag o-ring replacement kit.


and,does anyone know if AGD is still offering a "trade-in" on vavles below #30,000 or am i way off on this?

thanks again.

Technically you aren't supposed to oil the bolt since it will get onto the balls inthe breach and affect their accuracy. However like I said it can help if you have some velocity issues.

If your spring is rusty you can either lube it or replace it.

I use 3 in 1 oil or AGD autolube, but for the spring if you want to grease it use something that won't be knocked loose from air and get into the breach and barrel.

Yeah there are some holes that say oil, but that is actually secondary upkeep. primary upkeep is to put several drops of oil into your air fittings then take the barrel off (so you don;'t get oil init) and fire the marker dry about 10-20 times. For now drop 7 drops in, fire dry, then put 5 or so in again and repeat. Usually drop 2 or so every time you use it after that.

The parts kit should be all you need for years since it has all the orings and a new spring.

You can trade in your valve for $50 credit for an x valve. You could also get a level 10 kit ($85) if you feel like spending the time to tune it. I would recomend this is you have a level 5 bolt (I am not sure how to tell if you have a lvl 5 or lvl 7 bolt).

[Spider-TW]

You can trade any AGD valve in. I sent in one in the 4000s last year.

Any good bearing grease (lithium) should be fine. Shocker lube would work. The spring pack is carbon steel, so it just needs something to keep the moisture off of it and keep the spring washers moving freely on the shaft. You can get a spring pack new, but I would go ahead and clean it out and change out the old oring first. Pay attention to which end of the spring pack goes in first. I started to suggest which end goes in first, but I don't remember off hand. I always have to look. :confused:

A.I.R. valves need a little work to get up around something like 14 bps, but yours is a 'Classic' valve isn't it? They are much easier to get past 14 bps and make nice pneumags or electro-mags. TheMagSmith(.com) can do the x-valve program at a discount, but you will probably miss the stainless. ;)

[Nick E]

I thought air and classic valves were the same thing...

[Spider-TW]

Hi-jack: things you can do with your old AIR or Classic mag.... :D

They're mostly the same apparently. The names get interchanged a lot. This is one of my favorite threads...

20 bps classic (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=201202&highlight=bps+classic)

It is 'pump' in the above thread that suggests the ports are larger in the Classic valve than in the AIR valve.

and stick that together with this work from The Electrician...

high flow on/off (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197572)

You can see there is some 'evidence' that the classic can recharge faster than an AIR. It would explain why The Electrician was starting at 16 bps and trying to make 18 bps, while the first thread shows more than a couple people pushing 20 bps with just RT on/offs.

I missed my chance to measure an AIR back to back with a Classic. A change makes some sense, timeline-wise with the production of the classic and the more common use of HPA designs in mags. I would like to see some measurements though. :cool: I guess I could run some drill bit backs down through my classic, now that I think about it.

[Cytron]

thanks for all the help guys...

my parts kit is on its way and i hope that a few o-rings might be the problem.

i will update this is soon as my parts get here.


thanks alot for everyones help.

UPDATE: after stripping my mag and cleaning it a bit i got it to shoot a bit better..and i notice that when i gas it up i can hear a really small leak out of the back,,which goes away when i hold the trigger down...is this my regulator seat o-ring?

[Spider-TW]

It may be leaking out of one of the bottom outside on/off oring or the inside on/off oring, but not the top on/off oring. The reg always gets pressure, so I would think the sound may be coming from the underside at the on/off. Did you change and lube those? You might just relube and spin them a half turn if they are new. Becareful not to scratch the seal surfaces. :cheers:

[Cytron]

It may be leaking out of one of the bottom outside on/off oring or the inside on/off oring, but not the top on/off oring. The reg always gets pressure, so I would think the sound may be coming from the underside at the on/off. Did you change and lube those? You might just relube and spin them a half turn if they are new. Becareful not to scratch the seal surfaces. :cheers:


thanks..i think you might be right about the on/off o-ring.the on/off pin doesnt stick into place like it should..instead it slides out too easy.