Terrorist in Jersey!! and they used paintball

[Mongoose]

I was just watching the news.
three of them lived only 20 minutes away :eek:
The news said that they practiced with paintball guns in their backyard!!
they where gonna attack Fort Dix!!

[Epic Fail Guy]

Would you feel differnetly if they used Airsoft gear?

[BigEvil]

You know.. Rudz has been in NJ since last Thursday.. coincidence? I dont think so...

[Epic Fail Guy]

You know.. Rudz has been in NJ since last Thursday.. coincidence? I dont think so...
I think Scott is onto something...

[Toll]

From what I heard it was about 10 guys with the inclination to attack an army base.

Boy would they be surprised when they learned the blue plastic barrels they were carrying with them were not very good cover at all.

[Ninjeff]

From what I heard it was about 10 guys with the inclination to attack an army base.

Boy would they be surprised when they learned the blue plastic barrels they were carrying with them were not very good cover at all.


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Thats funny. :rofl:

[maglover728]

Any chance of a vid link?

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Quick Quick teh Terrorists are coming!

[geekwarrior]

You know.. Rudz has been in NJ since last Thursday.. coincidence? I dont think so...


rofl

durka durka! allah ackbar!

[Mongoose]

You know.. Rudz has been in NJ since last Thursday.. coincidence? I dont think so...
:rofl:
maybe they where just practicing for the game at Fort Dix that doobie is hosting.

i just hope they got them all

[hmudd13]

As long as they can make babies, they'll NEVER get them all. :(

[AirAssault]

Hold on there partners. These people have been charged with a crime, they have not been convicted. I know as Americans we should hate these people because they have darker skin and names like Mohamed and practice Islam. You know we have been wrong before (wmd's in Iraq-Jessica Lynch saved with a daring rescue-Pat Tilman killed by enemy fire-), and our government tends to come up with fantastic claims that tend not to be so fantastic about groups of people (the Canaian citizen taken by the US and sent to be tortured, only to be proven NOT a terrorist). So before we get the lynch mob together, how about we let the real story come out, not just the one fox news is pushing.


As long as they can make babies, they'll NEVER get them all. :(

Yeah pure stupidity.

[maglover728]

Hold on there partners. These people have been charged with a crime, they have not been convicted. I know as Americans we should hate these people because they have darker skin and names like Mohamed and practice Islam. You know we have been wrong before (wmd's in Iraq-Jessica Lynch saved with a daring rescue-Pat Tilman killed by enemy fire-), and our government tends to come up with fantastic claims that tend not to be so fantastic about groups of people (the Canaian citizen taken by the US and sent to be tortured, only to be proven NOT a terrorist). So before we get the lynch mob together, how about we let the real story come out, not just the one fox news is pushing.



Yeah pure stupidity.


We should all be able to get behind this line of thinking! Where is your pride in the system, your pride in the goverment???

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/maglover728/4335_image.jpg

[AirAssault]

We should all be able to get behind this line of thinking! Where is your pride in the system, your pride in the goverment???

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/maglover728/4335_image.jpg

Nice picture.


LoL, pride in a government that lies to its people and sends our men and women to a place to secure another contries oil? I have pride in my country, and the people that stand up and try and make a difference. I have pride in the people that do their job, even if they dissagree with it. I have hope that someday some of the American people that have their head up their 4th point of contact will pull it out and figure out that when people lie, they should be punished. Then, maybe I can have pride in our government again.

[Tao]

Nice picture.


LoL, pride in a government that lies to its people and sends our men and women to a place to secure another contries oil? I have pride in my country, and the people that stand up and try and make a difference. I have pride in the people that do their job, even if they dissagree with it. I have hope that someday some of the American people that have their head up their 4th point of contact will pull it out and figure out that when people lie, they should be punished. Then, maybe I can have pride in our government again.

Amen! Most of us Canadians are behind you on that one :)

[Aggravated Assault]

.... I know as Americans we should hate these people because they have darker skin and names like Mohamed and practice Islam. You know we have been wrong before (wmd's in Iraq-Jessica Lynch saved with a daring rescue-Pat Tilman killed by enemy fire-), and our government tends to come up with fantastic claims that tend not to be so fantastic about groups of people (the Canaian citizen taken by the US and sent to be tortured, only to be proven NOT a terrorist). So before we get the lynch mob together, how about we let the real story come out, not just the one fox news is pushing.



Yeah pure stupidity.

pure left wing talking points.

lol

[AirAssault]

pure left wing talking points.

lol

No, my talking points. You see I don't need to have some one think for me. I can do that for myself. Give it a try, you might like it.

[Rudz]

yeah all the fun starts after i leave? wtf....

[geekwarrior]

pure left wing talking points.

lol

not so much...but this





a government that lies to its people and sends our men and women to a place to secure another contries oil?


is.

[Aggravated Assault]

No, my talking points. You see I don't need to have some one think for me. I can do that for myself. Give it a try, you might like it.

:rofl: my god. And you believe it too.

Thinking up that stuff yourself that is.

Have no fear, I knew what you were getting at before your next post....so before your NEXT post I'll go ahed and do a summary. Bush lied, people died. No blood for oil. The world hates the US. Bush was in on 9/11. The US tortures our prisoners. America hates all muslims.

Go call George Noory or Alex Jones. It would be more on topic than Paintball talk.

[BigEvil]

pure left wing talking points.

lol


QFT


Wake up people. The enemy is at the gates, and inside them too.

On Monday I took Rudz and Lornecash to see the giant gaping hole in downtown NYC where the trade center once stood. IF that isnt a big enough dose of reality then we are all screwed. Im not trying to insult anyone, people are entitled to believe whatever the hell they want to.. but the TRUTH is that this was a potential TERRORIST ATTACK planned against Americans ON American soil. Ideology, Right, Left, Up, Down, Backwards, or whatever should not cause people to be skewing the facts.




We should all be able to get behind this line of thinking! Where is your pride in the system, your pride in the goverment???


People should never be too fond of their gov't. We should however be extremely proud of the principles that our nation was founded on, the good that we have and continue to do in the world, and great American people. It is our duty as citizens to always keep our government in check.

[geekwarrior]

Hold on there partners. These people have been charged with a crime, they have not been convicted. I know as Americans we should hate these people because they have darker skin and names like Mohamed and practice Islam. You know we have been wrong before (wmd's in Iraq-Jessica Lynch saved with a daring rescue-Pat Tilman killed by enemy fire-), and our government tends to come up with fantastic claims that tend not to be so fantastic about groups of people (the Canaian citizen taken by the US and sent to be tortured, only to be proven NOT a terrorist). So before we get the lynch mob together, how about we let the real story come out, not just the one fox news is pushing.



circuitcity employee tipped off feds... (http://www.thnt.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070509/NEWS/70509011)

[Zone Drifter]

It is our duty as citizens to always keep our government in check.

There you have it.

[Ninjeff]

People should never be too fond of their gov't. We should however be extremely proud of the principles that our nation was founded on, the good that we have and continue to do in the world, and great American people. It is our duty as citizens to always keep our government in check.


Right, and i beleive what the ORIGINAL poster was saying was that these people should be innocent until proven guilty.

That IS one of the founding principles.

No left wing talking points....just good human nature.

[Southpaw]

Right all about the Oil :tard: :rolleyes: . What country do you think we (the US) imports most of our oil from? I guess you canadians should watch out because its YOU

[SCpoloRicker]

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2062/429trutheb9nx3.jpg

Wake up, sheeple! The truth is obvious is you open your eyes!

[Pyroboy597]

5 of the 6 lived in my town (Cherry Hill). They lived in a neighborhood less than half a mile away. One of their kids actually went to my highschool, but dropped out last week for some reason (maybe for his own safety.. i have no idea)

[Tao]

QFT


Wake up people. The enemy is at the gates, and inside them too.

On Monday I took Rudz and Lornecash to see the giant gaping hole in downtown NYC where the trade center once stood. IF that isnt a big enough dose of reality then we are all screwed. Im not trying to insult anyone, people are entitled to believe whatever the hell they want to.. but the TRUTH is that this was a potential TERRORIST ATTACK planned against Americans ON American soil. Ideology, Right, Left, Up, Down, Backwards, or whatever should not cause people to be skewing the facts.





People should never be too fond of their gov't. We should however be extremely proud of the principles that our nation was founded on, the good that we have and continue to do in the world, and great American people. It is our duty as citizens to always keep our government in check.

Yes there has to be a wake up call for people especially Americans that there is potential for terrorist attacks. I agree with Big E completly. But the wake up call is how US foreign policy has essentially created these threats. The US has stuck its nose into other poeple's business too often to suit their own purposes, and once the US's purpose is satisfied they leave.
Case and point:

Alquaiida (NOT spelled Alquaeda) was created by the US. When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan (before the communist fall), the US armmed Afghanistan to fight off America's communist enemy. When the soviets were defeated, the US pulled out since their goals were accomplished, leaving Afghanistan to pick up the pieces. The soviets were defeated by Afghanistani blood, and the US showed no gratitude to the Afghanistanis or responsibility for their involvement. Now all of Afghanistani generals had nothing left of their contry and each eneded up fighting each other for control. Each was furrious for being used by the United States and swore vengeance. One of these generals...warlords was Osama Binladin.

If you look at it, the world trade centre attacks was a very very small amount of blood in payback to Afghanistan for all the Afghani lives which were given to fight communism with no recognition for their sacrifices other than a wore torn country. The attacks on the World Trade Centre were awful, but it was a wakeup call for American's to see what the US has done to other countries. The way the US used Afghanistan to fight America's fights for them was way way way more awful than the tradgedy of the World Trade Centre. Unfortunately most Americans missed this wake up call :(

Even after the World Trade Centre tradjedy, the US still messed up their dealings with other countries. They invaded Iraq illegally, and then when the US seized power it did not care about keeping order immediately. There was chaos, the Iraqi culture was nearly destroyed. Cultural relics and sights were destroyed in the chaos. 2000+ year old artifacts were lost from museums. Other than Sadam Iraq was a very beautiful country with lots of sights to see.

Hopefully this can get some people to see the reasons behind some of these attacks, and realize that entire Terrorist movements have been born from the way the US has teated other countris and the lives of their people. :wow:

[Tao]

Right all about the Oil :tard: :rolleyes: . What country do you think we (the US) imports most of our oil from? I guess you canadians should watch out because its YOU

Lol bring it :rofl: We are the only country to has a succesfull win/loss record for wars with the US... we are 1-0 baby :dance:

[ThePixelGuru]

So, 10 or so people were going to attack a military base? Yeah, that would have worked. :tard: A handful of paintball-trained civilians vs. a whole base of boot camp-trained military guys. Sounds pretty one-sided to me. Shame that the reputation of paintball has to take another hit for this BS, though.

Side note to EFG: We really are legion, eh?

[madcrisis]

speaking of terrorism one of the biggest places that can be attacked is very local. ill give u a hint: its in philly. if they attacked this place i would be screwed and most of US. do u guys know where it is?

[BigEvil]

Right, and i beleive what the ORIGINAL poster was saying was that these people should be innocent until proven guilty.

That IS one of the founding principles.

No left wing talking points....just good human nature.

And I agree with you 200% on that. If there are found guilty, they should be taken to ground zero and beheaded with a rusty gurder from the WTC. Then, we should recall every one of our soldiers in Europe, and use them to protect the American boarders to prevent any more people from sneaking in. Just good common sence :cool:

But here is another interesting point. Should rights that are only guaranteed to Americans be extended to foreigners? That was not one of the intentions of the founders.

[WalkingTarget]

Lol bring it :rofl: We are the only country to has a succesfull win/loss record for wars with the US... we are 1-0 baby :dance:

For real, don't make us come down there and burn the whitehouse to the ground *again*; i mean last time we were good sports about it and gave you back the land you originally owned.

*steps outside to prepare 'beer for guns' sign*

[Tao]

For real, don't make us come down there and burn the whitehouse to the ground *again*; i mean last time we were good sports about it and gave you back the land you originally owned.

*steps outside to prepare 'beer for guns' sign*

lol I think that trade would work in the US; Canadian beer for guns. :rofl:

[Tao]

But here is another interesting point. Should rights that are only guaranteed to Americans be extended to foreigners? That was not one of the intentions of the founders.

Most countries do I believe. It should be a basic human right to be treated fairly until proven guilty.

[Ninjeff]

And I agree with you 200% on that. If there are found guilty, they should be taken to ground zero and beheaded with a rusty gurder from the WTC. Then, we should recall every one of our soldiers in Europe, and use them to protect the American boarders to prevent any more people from sneaking in. Just good common sence :cool:

But here is another interesting point. Should rights that are only guaranteed to Americans be extended to foreigners? That was not one of the intentions of the founders.


Well, therein lies the rub my friend. ON the surface one would say if they are NOT an American citizen, then they have less "rights" than those that are.

However, im of the opinion that we need to walk the talk. Play FAIR and take the moral high ground. If the end objective is to spread the "beauty" that is democracy we cannot pick and choose where we use our "standards". Give them a FAIR trial, presume innocence and play nice.

If, however, they are found guilty, they will pay the price. That way we can say, honestly,
"Hey we tried to play nice, we tried to play fair....we did everything with a high moral standard and respect for all humanity. Still, you decided to press the issue, now face the collective whopping of the U.S. military. Walk softly, and carry a big laser guided stick. :shooting:

I dont, in any way, agree with the current administrations use of our men and women in the armed forces. I think the current run of white house goons has soiled the true face of America. Lies lies lies and scandals, disgrace and misuse of our military powers does not a happy American make.

But thats neither here, nor there.


I wonder if those yahoos would have complained about "over shooting" when they attacked our base. Buncha whiners...... :cry:

:D

[maglover728]

QFT

People should never be too fond of their gov't. We should however be extremely proud of the principles that our nation was founded on, the good that we have and continue to do in the world, and great American people. It is our duty as citizens to always keep our government in check.


The founding fathers are rollin in their graves. This goverment is run on pay offs and shere
(-2sp) politics. Big goverment is what they ran from and what we have become. We are the policemen of the world and have our noses in everyone elses business. We have homeless on the street and a failling public education system, just look at my spelling in most of my posts LOL, this is not the vision of the men who died to make this country free in the begining.

I am not preaching:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/maglover728/wherewillyoube.jpg

But this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/maglover728/mybackyardtoyours.jpg

And hopeing every one remembers:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/maglover728/whywerehere.jpg


It is time to focus on America. Just America.

[WalkingTarget]

well, your gov't might start actually TRYING the people held in Guantanamo.... It's as illegal as all hell to hold people without charge, nevermind the fact the the american government has taken these people out of other countries to be held without charge. no wonder the world is pissed at the US, you invade, take prisoners despite international law and then act like you have the 'moral high ground'.

then there's the fact tht the US attacked Iraq without UN approval; and now that it doesn't like where things are going, they are trying to pull away. too bad, you broke it, you fix it!

I have to agree with the above statements, your founding fathers must be spinning in their graves, they rebelled against unfair taxes and imprisonment, now look at where your gov't is.

under the Bush administration;

- Constitutional Rights have been Suspended, Indefinitely
- Overthrown governments to install puppet democracies.
- Illegally Invaded Iraq
- Holding over 3000 people *that we know of*, without charge
- Over 3000 american service people have been killed, not to mention those of other nationalities in an unjust war over Oil.

Wake up and smell the ashes people.

America is a police state.

if you look the wrong way, you could be arrested. questionable past? same thing; from the middle east? 80% chance you have been wire-tapped. Your civil right to protest peacefully has been revoked, as with your right to privacy, free speech and liberty.

Way to go; i really enjoyed watching you all not just sit around and take it, but actually hold rallies to applaud your government's actions in neutering your rights.


If this made you mad, go ahead and flame me, but before you do; go out and actually research what's out there! Look at information from an unbiased source, just open your eyes and see the what's happening outside your own window, it isn't your president running the country, it's Haliburton, IBM, Microsoft, Shell, Exxon, CNN, FOX and other such companies.

[bornl33t]

If this whole thing was about oil, why is it that I filled up today for 3 times what it cost me before the war started?

I'm not going to flame you, cause I couldn't do the damage you just did to your own credibility.

[bornl33t]

Most countries do I believe. It should be a basic human right to be treated fairly until proven guilty.

Most countries, just like the US have a right and a wrong way to immigrate.
And being caught in the US without going through the proper channels is what?

So basically your right unless you are trying to say that America doesn't treat foreigners fair when they have been proven guilty?

[AirAssault]

If this whole thing was about oil, why is it that I filled up today for 3 times what it cost me before the war started?

I'm not going to flame you, cause I couldn't do the damage you just did to your own credibility.

The fact that it is about oil has nothing to do with the price YOU pay for gas. The real question you should be asking is this... Why are you paying record prices for gas, while the US oil companies are recording RECORD PROFITS? Do a little research, the war in Iraq is about oil. Google "production sharing agreement" and read up a bit. You may be surprised.

[Aggravated Assault]

.....the wake up call is how US foreign policy has essentially created these threats. The US has stuck its nose into other poeple's business too often to suit their own purposes, and once the US's purpose is satisfied they leave.
Case and point:

Alquaiida (NOT spelled Alquaeda) was created by the US. When the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan (before the communist fall), the US armmed Afghanistan to fight off America's communist enemy. When the soviets were defeated, the US pulled out since their goals were accomplished, leaving Afghanistan to pick up the pieces. The soviets were defeated by Afghanistani blood, and the US showed no gratitude to the Afghanistanis or responsibility for their involvement. Now all of Afghanistani generals had nothing left of their contry and each eneded up fighting each other for control. Each was furrious for being used by the United States and swore vengeance. One of these generals...warlords was Osama Binladin.

If you look at it, the world trade centre attacks was a very very small amount of blood in payback to Afghanistan for all the Afghani lives which were given to fight communism with no recognition for their sacrifices other than a wore torn country. The attacks on the World Trade Centre were awful, but it was a wakeup call for American's to see what the US has done to other countries. The way the US used Afghanistan to fight America's fights for them was way way way more awful than the tradgedy of the World Trade Centre. Unfortunately most Americans missed this wake up call :(

Even after the World Trade Centre tradjedy, the US still messed up their dealings with other countries. They invaded Iraq illegally, and then when the US seized power it did not care about keeping order immediately. There was chaos, the Iraqi culture was nearly destroyed. Cultural relics and sights were destroyed in the chaos. 2000+ year old artifacts were lost from museums. Other than Sadam Iraq was a very beautiful country with lots of sights to see.

Hopefully this can get some people to see the reasons behind some of these attacks, and realize that entire Terrorist movements have been born from the way the US has teated other countris and the lives of their people. :wow:


Good job. ;) You've totally upped AirAssault on leftie talking points.


*Edit - Man...Walking Target was pretty sharp on talking points too.
This is some good stuff. :rolleyes:

Edit 2 - Now that I think about it, Walking Target takes the cake. Alex Jones would be proud. In fact, I hope you got permission to C&P that stuff from his website. ;)

[AirAssault]

LoL, leftie talking points. Seeing as the majority of America doesn't want us in Iraq, i would call it an American talking point. "Dissent is the greatest form of patriotism" What crazy guy said that? It is our duty to question our government, however there will always be sheep, so you won't be alone.



Good job. ;) You've totally upped AirAssult on leftie talking points.

Edit - Man...Walking Target was pretty sharp on talking points too.
This is some good stuff. :rolleyes:

[Aggravated Assault]

LoL, leftie talking points. Seeing as the majority of America doesn't want us in Iraq, i would call it an American talking point. "Dissent is the greatest form of patriotism" What crazy guy said that?

Hillary Clinton?

[BigEvil]

I love the "War is about oil" crowd. If we were that oil hungry we could just invade Mexico.. You know what, even hypothetically if it is. SO WHAT? And if it is, then we need to just level that toilet of a country and move our own oil rigs in there. If we are going to do it, then we should be doing it right, no? :p

As much as i despise paying the prices I do for gas, the whole reason that oil 'companies' are in business is to make a profit, NOT make it so that we can drive to the shore every summer for a reasonable cost. Supply and Demand, restrictive regulations, TAXES, transportation costs, and refinement all effect the price at the pump.

Speaking of refinement, when has the last time a new refinery was built in this country? Why is that?

And here is a homework assignment for anyone interested: Out of everyone who gets a cut of the price of a gallon of gasoline, who gets the BIGGEST percentage? Hint: They dont drill for it, refine it, explore for it, or anything else related.

Anyways... no matter what your side of any of these issues, EVERYONE allows this to happen. The same way we allow them to take a larger and large chunk of our money every year, the same way we allow them to raise tolls, the same way we allow more and more restrictive gun laws.. the same way we allow them to regulate more and more aspects of our lives... ect ect you get the point.

[AirAssault]

Hillary Clinton?

Thomas Jefferson.

[WalkingTarget]

First and foremost, There are/were several reasons for the war in Iraq, among those;

- Oil
- Economic Stimulation* (True! war is thought of as a factor that simulates the economy and prevents recession)
- Public Image**

* War tends to stimulate economy and development, for this reason, it is believed that the United States has entered into many conflicts to prevent recession/inflation reactions in its own economy; proof of this lies in the fact that before and during the early portions of the recent middle eastern conflicts economic trends pointed towards increasing inflationary rates and a medium to large recession.


** After bombing Afghanastan into the stone age (albiet that wasn't a huge move) it seemed like a hollow victory, none of the 'bad guys' were in chains or dead; what better move than to take out somebody they know is an evil SoB and show some concrete progress. (only problem being that when they did overthrow someone who *was* an evil SoB, they left the country in shambles)


As for my earlier post... well, what the hell do you think the Patriot Act is? it's certainly no protecting your freedoms; it specifically allows your gov't to hold people without charge indefinitely; it allows them to spy on you without just cause, in the right/wrong hands it can even be interpreted to deny your right to protest or gather peacefully or to critisize the government. (as critisizing the gov't is *obviously* a terrorist act). heck! there are rallies supporting your gov't almost every weekend, even as they snatch freedoms from you.


and as for Guantanamo, do your bloody research, it's just not people from the middle east they are holding there; people from many different countries have 'disappeared' into this and other secret prisons, and i'm sure guantanamo is only the surface of it all. Moreover, these people have been taken without extriditon or other means or expatriating them. meaning the US just walked in, took who they wanted, and walked back out. huh... sounds kind of like what terrorists do in Iraq; walk in, take someone, walk out and then post a video of their version of 'justice'

and yes, the fact that your government has taken Canadian citizens without extridition, then held them without charge absolutely enrages me.

I'm Canadian, and i will go to hell and back before i let my government take my rights away.

[geekwarrior]

http://home.comcast.net/~throughthewall/koolaid.jpg

[SCpoloRicker]

I'm Canadian,

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5738/owlorly5se.jpg

[Aggravated Assault]

Thomas Jefferson.

OMG. You are killing me. :rofl:



Here's a little something gleaned from the jefferson library:

Unconfirmed and Incorrectly Attributed Quotes
There are a number of quotes that we do not find in Thomas Jefferson’s correspondence or other writings; in such cases, Jefferson should not be cited as the source. Among the most common of these spurious Jefferson quotes are:

“Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.”
“We should build an aristocracy of achievement based on a democracy of opportunity.”
“An informed citizenry is the bulwark of a democracy.”
“Information is the currency of democracy.”
“A nation is as good as its values.”
There is nothing more unequal than the equal treatment of unequal people.”
“When the government fears the people, there is liberty; When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”
“I have nothing but contempt for anyone who can spell a word only one way.”
“I am a big believer in luck. The harder I work, the more I have.”

I included some others for future misquotes:

In other cases, quotes are often attributed to Jefferson but were actually said by others:

“Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.” (John Philpot Curran)
“Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither.” (Benjamin Franklin)
“That government is best which governs least.” (Henry David Thoreau)
“I am a revolutionary so my son can be a farmer so his son can be a poet.” (John Adams)

*edit
You see I don't need to have some one think for me. I can do that for myself. Give it a try, you might like it.

[Tao]

Most countries, just like the US have a right and a wrong way to immigrate.
And being caught in the US without going through the proper channels is what?

So basically your right unless you are trying to say that America doesn't treat foreigners fair when they have been proven guilty?

I think inb America only American citizens have the maranda rights: right to a lawyer, right to due process etc.

[Tao]

Good job. ;) You've totally upped AirAssault on leftie talking points.


*Edit - Man...Walking Target was pretty sharp on talking points too.
This is some good stuff. :rolleyes:

Edit 2 - Now that I think about it, Walking Target takes the cake. Alex Jones would be proud. In fact, I hope you got permission to C&P that stuff from his website. ;)

Thats neither left not right, that is fact.

[FactsOfLife]

http://maritimes.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/09/moonbat.png


need a huge friggin shovel to clean up the liberal guano in this thread.

[WalkingTarget]

I am neither left, right or up or down or sideways; I'm just looking at what I see, not taking CNN's and FOX's 'facts and proof' at face value.

I just look at the evidence presented to me and make my judgements based on that; the nice thing about facts is that they have no leaning to any particular party or viewpoint, they are truely unbiased.

Go to a media outlet other than CNN, FOX or their affiliates, the ammount of slant that this so called 'media' puts on events is astounding.

a good place to start is the BBC and other such international news agencies.

Edit: you may wish to start by looking into the $30 000 000 or so dollars that your government sent to Haliburton for paving roads in Iraq - only about 2 miles of road ever got built, that's $15 000 000 per mile.... *YOUR* tax dollars sent to a major oil company for work that was never done.

[Tao]

First and foremost, There are/were several reasons for the war in Iraq, among those;

- Oil
- Economic Stimulation* (True! war is thought of as a factor that simulates the economy and prevents recession)
- Public Image**

* War tends to stimulate economy and development, for this reason, it is believed that the United States has entered into many conflicts to prevent recession/inflation reactions in its own economy; proof of this lies in the fact that before and during the early portions of the recent middle eastern conflicts economic trends pointed towards increasing inflationary rates and a medium to large recession.

I'm Canadian, and i will go to hell and back before i let my government take my rights away.

War doesn't stimulate the economy. It did in the 30s because it gave jobs to unemployed people durring the recession. This was an enignma however. War drives up a country's deficit and drives up inflation. It drives up the countries deficit because it is littlerally throwing away its resources (bombs, ammunition etc) so there are less products being produced to trade with or for citizens to purchase. For example lets say the country worked normally paying citizens to refine goods etc, then all the products of the country were blown up. Now these citizens were paid and have say $2000 a month. Their money would hardly buy food let alone water since hyper inflation would make their money worthless. Sorta like Germany before WW2. An extreme example but it paints the picture.

It drives up inflation because consumer goods aren't being produced in the normal quantities because a higher percentage of the countries resources are being devoted to military goods. Since there is less consumer goods than what would generally be available for purchase you get inflation as people have more money than the goods available to spend it on.

Just want to get this clear since I have hear some people say that the war in Iraq is good for the US economy. Well now the US has a balance of payments issue wich would scare the hell out of me if I were American. What is a balance of payments issue? The US needs to import more resources than it can export to pay for it. Since the US is the most productive country on the planet, having a balance of paymets issue is HUGE :eek:

[Lohman446]

I am neither left, right or up or down or sideways; I'm just looking at what I see, not taking CNN's and FOX's 'facts and proof' at face value.

I just look at the evidence presented to me and make my judgements based on that; the nice thing about facts is that they have no leaning to any particular party or viewpoint, they are truely unbiased.

Go to a media outlet other than CNN, FOX or their affiliates, the ammount of slant that this so called 'media' puts on events is astounding.

a good place to start is the BBC and other such international news agencies.

So the facts presented to you cannot be biased? If I control the information out of an area I can most certainly bias the facts presented. The fault is beleiving that the "evidence presented to you" is all the evidence, and thus that your opinion does not have flaws in it. Its a fault in most peoples methods of debate.

[WalkingTarget]

So the facts presented to you cannot be biased? If I control the information out of an area I can most certainly bias the facts presented. The fault is beleiving that the "evidence presented to you" is all the evidence, and thus that your opinion does not have flaws in it. Its a fault in most peoples methods of debate.


No one will ever have all the evidence; and not all evidence is unbiased;

however examine the Patriot Act for yourself and try telling me that it does not suspend rights granted you by your constitution.

Look at Guantanamo; who extridited these supposed criminals to this prison under which authority, moreover, if these are not american citizens and they are not in the United States; how are they to be imprisoned by your government without the permission of their own governments; never mind that almost all there are being held without charge.

[Lohman446]

No one will ever have all the evidence; and not all evidence is unbiased;

however examine the Patriot Act for yourself and try telling me that it does not suspend rights granted you by your constitution.

Look at Guantanamo; who extridited these supposed criminals to this prison under which authority, moreover, if these are not american citizens and they are not in the United States; how are they to be imprisoned by your government without the permission of their own governments; never mind that almost all there are being held without charge.

I never claimed it didn't. At the time most Americans were willing to give up certain freedoms for "more safety". Personally I would guess it just made legitimate certain activites that were probably already ongoing.

As to Guantanamo I would say that, historically, war has allowed for the holding of prisoners captured in relation to the battlefield.

For not being right or left, you seem to be pretty one sided on your questioning :P .

[bornl33t]

http://maritimes.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/09/moonbat.png


need a huge friggin shovel to clean up the liberal guano in this thread.

I second.

[t0nnn]

just found out they owned a pizza shop in my town ...and one of the houses that got raided is about 2 minutes from me :ninja:

[SCpoloRicker]

You know, a lot of you vocal conservatives seems to complain a whole freakin' lot about "liberal guana", "left-wing talking points", and various other dodges.

/conservative
//understands that statement goes both ways

[Tao]

I never claimed it didn't. At the time most Americans were willing to give up certain freedoms for "more safety". Personally I would guess it just made legitimate certain activites that were probably already ongoing.

As to Guantanamo I would say that, historically, war has allowed for the holding of prisoners captured in relation to the battlefield.

For not being right or left, you seem to be pretty one sided on your questioning :P .

To add in some facts about this:

War has allowed for holding of prisoners, but they have rights granted under the Geneva Convention.

However "terrorist" are granted no rights. I think their home countries can dispute if they are labeled terrorists or not, but I am not sure about that.

[WalkingTarget]

the very fact of the matter is, that they are either being held as war criminals, under which case they must be given certain rights which are currently denied them, or they are extridited criminals, in which case, they would have to have had an extridition hearing in their home country.

as it stands, the Untied States has no legal backing for taking these people as they are just being held in a prison without charges, even under the Geneva Convention, they need to be charged with something to be held such, and if they are Prisoners of War, they have not been informed as such, nor has the rest of the world.


As it stands, the United States just went into a series of countries to take these people and transport them to their own private prison.

To put it bluntly, the United States government is guilty of Kidnapping and Wrongful Detainment of over 3000 individuals. Even more, the 'hearings' are only occuring after a prisoner has admitted guilt to something.

so, it seems that these prisoners are being held indefinitely until they get tired of it and admit guilt to something. I wonder if you would put up with that if it were occuring on your own soil? How would any of you feel to be picked up by the police and thrown in jail, not even allowed your trial until you have admited guilt to some act that you may or may not have commited?


again, it's hard not to come to this conclusion, as that is what has and is happening right now, and there is no way to 'slant' the fact that this is occuring;

[Aggravated Assault]

Two things.

Let me help clairify (in bold) what you were trying to say earlier...




I just look at the evidence presented to me by other biased sources that seem to back up my way of thinking and make my judgements based on that; the nice thing about this way of thinking is that I can claim it as fact and say they have no leaning to any particular party or viewpoint, they are truely unbiased. Because I saw it on the internets


And a comment....


a good place to start is the BBC and other such international news agencies.

:rofl:

[Southpaw]

WalkingTarget the fact of the matter is they are NOT as war criminals but unlawful combatants. These people are NOT POW's I would suggest looking up what that means.

It is arguable that no european country could defend itself from a direct attack. You see you can spend all the money you want of feel good programs if you know your big brother will come and bail you out. Do you think we would be able to win a war like WWII today? What do you think would happen if we lost over 8,000 soldiers in one day?

[WalkingTarget]

WalkingTarget the fact of the matter is they are NOT as war criminals but unlawful combatants. These people are NOT POW's I would suggest looking up what that means.

It is arguable that no european country could defend itself from a direct attack. You see you can spend all the money you want of feel good programs if you know your big brother will come and bail you out. Do you think we would be able to win a war like WWII today? What do you think would happen if we lost over 8,000 soldiers in one day?


Unlawful Combatants

huh.

Well, in such a case they should be charged as such, but the fact of the matter is, most of the people rotting there were never involved in any combat, they were just kidnapped because they were *suspected* of terrorist activities.

And a PoW is defined as personel belinging to a military organization of a opposing force, weather or not involved in actual combat.

Get this through your heads, there are people in that prison who were picked up because your government suspected them of terrorist activities. they have not been charged because in many cases, there is NOTHING to charge them with.

the thing people are having a hard time seeing here is that the US government is NOT RIGHT.

In bold so people actually read it...

The United States Military is holding over 3000 people without charge in a private prison facility, violating both Human Rights and those gaurenteed by the Geneva Convention.


it is as simple as this, The United States Government CANNOT LEGALLY CHARGE ANY OF THESE PEOPLE. They lack the jurisdiction as they are NOT an international court body

and once more...

Most of the people in the Guantanamo Bay Prison Facility have been taken from their home countries without due process

Open your eyes! your government is commiting acts of terrorism!

[Lohman446]

the very fact of the matter is, that they are either being held as war criminals, under which case they must be given certain rights which are currently denied them, or they are extridited criminals, in which case, they would have to have had an extridition hearing in their home country.

as it stands, the Untied States has no legal backing for taking these people as they are just being held in a prison without charges, even under the Geneva Convention, they need to be charged with something to be held such, and if they are Prisoners of War, they have not been informed as such, nor has the rest of the world.


As it stands, the United States just went into a series of countries to take these people and transport them to their own private prison.

To put it bluntly, the United States government is guilty of Kidnapping and Wrongful Detainment of over 3000 individuals. Even more, the 'hearings' are only occuring after a prisoner has admitted guilt to something.

so, it seems that these prisoners are being held indefinitely until they get tired of it and admit guilt to something. I wonder if you would put up with that if it were occuring on your own soil? How would any of you feel to be picked up by the police and thrown in jail, not even allowed your trial until you have admited guilt to some act that you may or may not have commited?


again, it's hard not to come to this conclusion, as that is what has and is happening right now, and there is no way to 'slant' the fact that this is occuring;


It is a fact that America is holding militants (call them soldiers, terrorists, whatever) in detention centers from at least Iraq, Afghanastan (sp), and Pakistan. Probably more.

They were detained in actions deemed illegal in those countries. There is no need to request there country of origin give permission for them to be held for crimes in another country.

A strong argument can be made they are being held in accordance with the laws of the country they committed the crimes in.

So no, its not as easy as your great, "unbiased" viewpoint would have it seem. I'm not saying its right but for you to sit here and claim to not have bias, to be all seeing and judge only on the facts and not your opinions, is ludicrous as well. Simply being "not American" (be it Canadian or European) does not make you more enlightened. Sorry.

Just to recap: Im not necessarily condemning your arguments - I am calling you out on your condescending attitude. Your arguments may have some basis in logic, even if you do argue in sound bites rather than using logic. However, there is logic on the other side as well.

[FactsOfLife]

Unlawful Combatants

huh.

Well, in such a case they should be charged as such, but the fact of the matter is, most of the people rotting there were never involved in any combat, they were just kidnapped because they were *suspected* of terrorist activities.

And a PoW is defined as personel belinging to a military organization of a opposing force, weather or not involved in actual combat.

Get this through your heads, there are people in that prison who were picked up because your government suspected them of terrorist activities. they have not been charged because in many cases, there is NOTHING to charge them with.

the thing people are having a hard time seeing here is that the US government is NOT RIGHT.

In bold so people actually read it...

The United States Military is holding over 3000 people without charge in a private prison facility, violating both Human Rights and those gaurenteed by the Geneva Convention.


it is as simple as this, The United States Government CANNOT LEGALLY CHARGE ANY OF THESE PEOPLE. They lack the jurisdiction as they are NOT an international court body

and once more...

Most of the people in the Guantanamo Bay Prison Facility have been taken from their home countries without due process

Open your eyes! your government is commiting acts of terrorism!

yet another moonbat heard from. get back under your rock at DU.

[paintballfiend]

just found out they owned a pizza shop in my town ...and one of the houses that got raided is about 2 minutes from me :ninja:
New PSA:
"If you order pizza you are supporting terrorism."

*paid for by McDonalds, BK, Taco Bell, and KFC.

[Aggravated Assault]

Unlawful Combatants

huh.

Well, in such a case they should be charged as such, but the fact of the matter is, most of the people rotting there were never involved in any combat, they were just kidnapped because they were *suspected* of terrorist activities...




You know this? You've been to Gitmo? Inside Gitmo? You have knowledge of all the detainees there? You know that over half of them were never involved in combat? You know we havent "charged" any of them as being enemy combatants?

Thats a lot of stuff you know.

Better watch out...I bet Dubya is reading your profile and getting your ip as we speak.... :D

[WalkingTarget]

let dubya come... i've devised a clever trap that a 5th grader could figure out... he'll never get in

[paintballfiend]

No one's "facts" are facts, opinions are developed by someone elses opinion, and everyone is biased. So... the truth does not exist, just like there is no right or wrong, just perception.

[FactsOfLife]

let dubya come... i've devised a clever trap that a 5th grader could figure out... he'll never get in


And yet time and again, he manages to outsmart all the so-called "smart" liberals.

[Aggravated Assault]

yet another moonbat heard from. get back under your rock at DU.

NO! :nono:

We're having a nice discussion and trying to help this person out. Don't send him to the underground! He'll never be able to think for himself! :eek:








/btw target, j/k about the "think for yourself thing." ;)
//Really :)

[BigTrucker]

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2062/429trutheb9nx3.jpg

Wake up, sheeple! The truth is obvious is you open your eyes!
Umm the truck was scooped off and trashed. The driver was hauling Diesel fuel and that is what melted the bridge. I drive thew here every night. as for fighting for oil???? I mean come one if you think about it that is why we got draged into WWII Japan needed oil and we didnt want to give it to them. That war has been over for 60 years and we still have toops in Japan. Whats up with that???

[FactsOfLife]

NO! :nono:

We're having a nice discussion and trying to help this person out. Don't send him to the underground! He'll never be able to think for himself! :eek:








/btw target, j/k about the "think for yourself thing." ;)
//Really :)


lol everytime I read some snip from DU all I can think about is Obi Wan's description of Mos Eisley Spaceport.

[FactsOfLife]

Umm the truck was scooped off and trashed. The driver was hauling Diesel fuel and that is what melted the bridge. I drive thew here every night. as for fighting for oil???? I mean come one if you think about it that is why we got draged into WWII Japan needed oil and we didnt want to give it to them. That war has been over for 60 years and we still have toops in Japan. Whats up with that???

gotta keep the anime artists in check.

[BigTrucker]

I love the "War is about oil" crowd. If we were that oil hungry we could just invade Mexico.. You know what, even hypothetically if it is. SO WHAT? And if it is, then we need to just level that toilet of a country and move our own oil rigs in there. If we are going to do it, then we should be doing it right, no? :p

As much as i despise paying the prices I do for gas, the whole reason that oil 'companies' are in business is to make a profit, NOT make it so that we can drive to the shore every summer for a reasonable cost. Supply and Demand, restrictive regulations, TAXES, transportation costs, and refinement all effect the price at the pump.

Speaking of refinement, when has the last time a new refinery was built in this country? Why is that?

And here is a homework assignment for anyone interested: Out of everyone who gets a cut of the price of a gallon of gasoline, who gets the BIGGEST percentage? Hint: They dont drill for it, refine it, explore for it, or anything else related.

Anyways... no matter what your side of any of these issues, EVERYONE allows this to happen. The same way we allow them to take a larger and large chunk of our money every year, the same way we allow them to raise tolls, the same way we allow more and more restrictive gun laws.. the same way we allow them to regulate more and more aspects of our lives... ect ect you get the point. :hail: :cheers: Yes someone who get it :dance:

[FactsOfLife]

I love the "War is about oil" crowd. If we were that oil hungry we could just invade Mexico.. You know what, even hypothetically if it is. SO WHAT? And if it is, then we need to just level that toilet of a country and move our own oil rigs in there. If we are going to do it, then we should be doing it right, no? :p

As much as i despise paying the prices I do for gas, the whole reason that oil 'companies' are in business is to make a profit, NOT make it so that we can drive to the shore every summer for a reasonable cost. Supply and Demand, restrictive regulations, TAXES, transportation costs, and refinement all effect the price at the pump.

Speaking of refinement, when has the last time a new refinery was built in this country? Why is that?

And here is a homework assignment for anyone interested: Out of everyone who gets a cut of the price of a gallon of gasoline, who gets the BIGGEST percentage? Hint: They dont drill for it, refine it, explore for it, or anything else related.

Anyways... no matter what your side of any of these issues, EVERYONE allows this to happen. The same way we allow them to take a larger and large chunk of our money every year, the same way we allow them to raise tolls, the same way we allow more and more restrictive gun laws.. the same way we allow them to regulate more and more aspects of our lives... ect ect you get the point.


OOOOOH OOOOH PICK ME, PICK ME! I KNOW, I KNOW!

[SCpoloRicker]

Open your eyes! your government is commiting acts of terrorism!

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8630/429trutheb9cu8.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7155/429ev1su7.gif

The Truth is out There! 4/29/07 Never Forget!

[Aggravated Assault]

Umm the truck was scooped off and trashed. The driver was hauling Diesel fuel and that is what melted the bridge. I drive thew here every night.

:spit_take

/really, I nearly spit out my soco manhattan.









*edit - can i has a consipracy burger? :rofl: omgrofl

[BigTrucker]

Ummm okay. i can tell you think the moon landing was on a movie stage too. :rofl: your a neard and i can tell you have never driven on this bridge nor have been in the SF Oakland bay area. Homeless people had Hippies camp out thair all the time. this part of Oakland is next to the shipping docks and is not a verry good neighborhood so i am thinking that the hippies are to scard to camp out. the so called cuts is where they put the bridge section together. Your a neard. So strat looking for some new pics, O wait here is a thought...try looking up the local news story. Naaaa that makes too much sence. Here I'll do it for you and its even for the San Francisco Chroical, one of the most liberal paper out there http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/29/BAGVOPHQU46.DTL :D My bad you are from SF LOL you must take BART every where

[maxama10]

Ummm okay. i can tell you think the moon landing was on a movie stage too. :rofl: your a neard and i can tell you have never driven on this bridge nor have been in the SF Oakland bay area. Homeless people had Hippies camp out thair all the time. this part of Oakland is next to the shipping docks and is not a verry good neighborhood so i am thinking that the hippies are to scard to camp out. the so called cuts is where they put the bridge section together. Your a neard. So strat looking for some new pics, O wait here is a thought...try looking up the local news story. Naaaa that makes too much sence. Here I'll do it for you and its even for the San Francisco Chroical, one of the most liberal paper out there http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/29/BAGVOPHQU46.DTL :D My bad you are from SF LOL you must take BART every where


To be honest, I agree with you. I don't believe it was a conspiracy, but you're doing yourself and all of us non-conspiracy believers a huge disfavor. Your apparent lack of grammar and your misspelling are making us all look bad and taking away from our credability. If you want to be taken seriously on here, and I think most of AO will back me up when I say this, then take a few english classes and at least try to appear intelligent. :rolleyes:

/I'm sure I've made my own mistakes...if you really nit-picked. ;)
//Doesn't mean to be a jerk, just wants to be taken srsly. :)

[AirAssault]

NO! :nono:
We're having a nice discussion and trying to help this person out. Don't send him to the underground! He'll never be able to think for himself! :eek:
/btw target, j/k about the "think for yourself thing." ;)
//Really :)


What cracks me up is you come in here talking about leftie talking points, yet you don't add anything meaningful to the conversation. I can bring up many points where bush and his admin have lied, can you defend that? What percent of the American people are against the war in Iraq now? So how is it a leftie talking point? It's easy to say I think that way so Im right (bush does it all the time) but that doesn't make it so. Sorry buddy the days of bush killing our greatest without a check by the congress is OVER. It is time for some accountability, something the rebublican congress failed to do, and our tax dollars and soldiers lives were lost because of that.


I love how bush says its the dems in congress's fault our soldiers are not getting their money. They put forth a bill to pay and then some, bush vetoed it, not the dems in congress. So who is at fault? I know Aggravated, its the Dems fault. Maybe we can blame Bill Clinton too, what ya think?

[PISTOL_WRAITH]

To add in some facts about this:

War has allowed for holding of prisoners, but they have rights granted under the Geneva Convention.

However "terrorist" are granted no rights. I think their home countries can dispute if they are labeled terrorists or not, but I am not sure about that.


:nono: The Geneva Convention only applies to Uniformed Soldiers of the Opposing(sp?) Army. Any "soldier" not in uniform when captured is treated as a spy(ie. can be shot).

[Southpaw]

I can blame Clinton he thought the same thing as Bush LINK from CNN (http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/16/clinton.iraq.speech/) to quote Clinton "The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people," Clinton

[Tao]

:nono: The Geneva Convention only applies to Uniformed Soldiers of the Opposing(sp?) Army. Any "soldier" not in uniform when captured is treated as a spy(ie. can be shot).

Ah interesting... However the point is the US government is abusing people since technically the rules don't apply. Either way innocent people have been hurt. Sure the majority of the 3000+ people the US has prisoner are MOST LIKELY criminals in some way, but mistakes are made. The Canadian citizen capture and tourchured is a good example. Due process is to protect the innocent who get cought in the system by errors. It shouldn't matter if there are rules to follow these proceedures or not.

[Lohman446]

What cracks me up is you come in here talking about leftie talking points, yet you don't add anything meaningful to the conversation. I can bring up many points where bush and his admin have lied, can you defend that? What percent of the American people are against the war in Iraq now? So how is it a leftie talking point? It's easy to say I think that way so Im right (bush does it all the time) but that doesn't make it so. Sorry buddy the days of bush killing our greatest without a check by the congress is OVER. It is time for some accountability, something the rebublican congress failed to do, and our tax dollars and soldiers lives were lost because of that.


I love how bush says its the dems in congress's fault our soldiers are not getting their money. They put forth a bill to pay and then some, bush vetoed it, not the dems in congress. So who is at fault? I know Aggravated, its the Dems fault. Maybe we can blame Bill Clinton too, what ya think?


Wow, please tell me that Americans are not this stupid. Certainly you don't buy that one side is at fault and one side is blameless. Certainly you don't buy that the only thing in that bill funding.

[FactsOfLife]

Wow, please tell me that Americans are not this stupid. Certainly you don't buy that one side is at fault and one side is blameless. Certainly you don't buy that the only thing in that bill funding.

Let em howl, lets the rest of the world see how nuts the left is.

Next he'll be telling us that Bushco was complicit in 9-11, and set it all up so halliburton could profit.

[AirAssault]

Wow, please tell me that Americans are not this stupid. Certainly you don't buy that one side is at fault and one side is blameless. Certainly you don't buy that the only thing in that bill funding.

What? I have no clue what you're asking in your last question there. Sure there was pork in the bill, I suggest you go back and read the other appropriation bills, lots of pork in each of them but bush still signed em. bush back in 1999 suggested Clinton should have a time line and a plan for withdraw for our soldiers in Kosovo, why doesn't he follow his own advice now?


Let em howl, lets the rest of the world see how nuts the left is.

Next he'll be telling us that Bushco was complicit in 9-11, and set it all up so halliburton
could profit.

Hmmm, sitting in a classroom reading "My Pet Goat" after the first plane hit the WTC and doing nothing.... Sitting there even after he was told that a second plane hit the WTC and still did nothing, what would you call that?

[Lohman446]

Hmmm, sitting in a classroom reading "My Pet Goat" after the first plane hit the WTC and doing nothing.... Sitting there even after he was told that a second plane hit the WTC and still did nothing, what would you call that?

Put on a red cape or a spidey suit and single handedly stopped them? Please god tell me our system is not set up to fail if one person does not jump up. What could he have done, honestly?

I'm not defending either side here, but both sides are idiotic when they try to place all the blame on the other.

I'm trusting that you know, and are chosing to ignore that the controversial point in that bill was a troop withdrawal date. I'm sorry, thats strategically not a great idea. Now if it was a "if you have not won we will nuke them" date, it might not have had all the stategic problems :eek: :rolleyes:

[FactsOfLife]

Hmmm, sitting in a classroom reading "My Pet Goat" after the first plane hit the WTC and doing nothing.... Sitting there even after he was told that a second plane hit the WTC and still did nothing, what would you call that?

can I call em or what.

now that you've thoroughly discredited yourself better than I ever could, time for you to crawl back to the moonbat cave.

bet you also think the Fort Dix Six are the victims of a setup too don't ya.

keep ranting, you do more to show the world and this forum exactly what the average lib is like than I ever could.

[Aggravated Assault]

Ummm okay. i can tell you think the moon landing was on a movie stage too. :rofl: your a neard and i can tell you have never driven on this bridge nor have been in the SF Oakland bay area. Homeless people had Hippies camp out thair all the time. this part of Oakland is next to the shipping docks and is not a verry good neighborhood so i am thinking that the hippies are to scard to camp out. the so called cuts is where they put the bridge section together. Your a neard. So strat looking for some new pics, O wait here is a thought...try looking up the local news story. Naaaa that makes too much sence. Here I'll do it for you and its even for the San Francisco Chroical, one of the most liberal paper out there http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/29/BAGVOPHQU46.DTL :D My bad you are from SF LOL you must take BART every where


wow.

[Aggravated Assault]

What cracks me up is you come in here talking about leftie talking points, yet you don't add anything meaningful to the conversation.

I've been too busy laughing.

I did add some quotes for your reading pleasure and was having a meaningful dialouge with walking target about expressing himself better. I really thought we were making progress......

Ok, all seriousness aside.... What cracks me up is you're the one who responded to a comment (and a moronic post) and went off target, out in left field. No pun intended. (It's an old saying around these parts) All it took was "left wing talking points" and it was off to the races.

Don't pick on me, I just gave the response you were looking for. :)






So who is at fault? I know Aggravated, its the Dems fault. Maybe we can blame Bill Clinton too, what ya think?

I know you think you know what I think, but I know you really have no idea what I think.
(Thomas Jefferson)



J/k :D

[AirAssault]

Put on a red cape or a spidey suit and single handedly stopped them? Please god tell me our system is not set up to fail if one person does not jump up. What could he have done, honestly?

I'm not defending either side here, but both sides are idiotic when they try to place all the blame on the other.

I'm trusting that you know, and are chosing to ignore that the controversial point in that bill was a troop withdrawal date. I'm sorry, thats strategically not a great idea. Now if it was a "if you have not won we will nuke them" date, it might not have had all the stategic problems :eek: :rolleyes:

He is the president, he can scramble jets. He can put planes in the air to at least watch these planes. I guess My Pet Goat was to good to put down.

In 1999 bush thought it was a good idea for Clinton to have a time table for withdraw and a plan to exit. So if it was good for Clinton, why not bush? Your argument holds no water.

[geekwarrior]

Hmmm, sitting in a classroom reading "My Pet Goat" after the first plane hit the WTC and doing nothing.... Sitting there even after he was told that a second plane hit the WTC and still did nothing, what would you call that?


:rolleyes: how's the next movie coming along Michael Moore?


/laughing at your "i think for myself comment

[geekwarrior]

He is the president, he can scramble jets. He can put planes in the air to at least watch these planes. I guess My Pet Goat was to good to put down.

In 1999 bush thought it was a good idea for Clinton to have a time table for withdraw and a plan to exit. So if it was good for Clinton, why not bush? Your argument holds no water.


You know how many planes are in the air at any given time? which ones would you like them to watch?

[Lohman446]

He is the president, he can scramble jets. He can put planes in the air to at least watch these planes. I guess My Pet Goat was to good to put down.

In 1999 bush thought it was a good idea for Clinton to have a time table for withdraw and a plan to exit. So if it was good for Clinton, why not bush? Your argument holds no water.

You don't think the military can (and does) do this without direct Presidential authorization?

[Mongoose]

just found out they owned a pizza shop in my town ...and one of the houses that got raided is about 2 minutes from me :ninja:
We ordered pizza from there many times!!!!!!!!
it was called duka's pizza...then they sold it to tony sapranos pizza :eek: :eek:

[SCpoloRicker]

Oh man. BigTrucker, I'm basically an SF Bay native, been here since '86.

Listen, the Mossad is culpable for this attack on American soil. It's all a ploy to get us to attack Iran. The signs are all there!!

[Lohman446]

He is the president, he can scramble jets. He can put planes in the air to at least watch these planes. I guess My Pet Goat was to good to put down.

In 1999 bush thought it was a good idea for Clinton to have a time table for withdraw and a plan to exit. So if it was good for Clinton, why not bush? Your argument holds no water.

My arguments are strategic and not politcally motivated. It was a bad idea for both. Oh, look, my arguments - holding water. Nice sound bite though.

[Aggravated Assault]

He is the president, he can scramble jets. He can put planes in the air to at least watch these planes.

Thats right, but, if Bush puts planes in the air to watch the other planes, whos watching the planes that were sent to watch?

Who will watch the watchmen? :ninja:



In 1999 bush thought it was a good idea for Clinton to have a time table for withdraw.
So did Monica

[Southpaw]

Walking Target + AirAssualt=Collegeboy you might want look for posts here with that user you remind me of him.

EDITED after review Walking target needs some credit for this thread

[FactsOfLife]

AirAssualt=Collegeboy you might want look for posts here with that user you remind me of him.


well, there goes my day....

[Raven001]

Anyone wanna take a terrorist test?

http://www.pa-aware.org/who-are-terrorists/quiz.asp

[Aggravated Assault]

Ummm okay. i can tell you think the moon landing was on a movie stage too. :rofl: your a neard and i can tell you have never driven on this bridge nor have been in the SF Oakland bay area. Homeless people had Hippies camp out thair all the time. this part of Oakland is next to the shipping docks and is not a verry good neighborhood so i am thinking that the hippies are to scard to camp out. the so called cuts is where they put the bridge section together. Your a neard. So strat looking for some new pics, O wait here is a thought...try looking up the local news story. Naaaa that makes too much sence. Here I'll do it for you and its even for the San Francisco Chroical, one of the most liberal paper out there http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/29/BAGVOPHQU46.DTL :D My bad you are from SF LOL you must take BART every where



To be honest, I agree with you. I don't believe it was a conspiracy, but you're doing yourself and all of us non-conspiracy believers a huge disfavor. Your apparent lack of grammar and your misspelling are making us all look bad and taking away from our credability.

Thats not the only thing making you guys look bad.


You just can't script this stuff.... :D

[Ninjeff]

I really wish people would stop railing on the "left" or "liberals" or whatever. Seriously. There is a MAJOR difference between most "leftists/liberals" and people that spout conspiracy theories. Most of us here on the elft fully beleive that EVERYONE is at fault. It goes back back back alot further than Bush, and Clinton, and Bush Sr, and possibly even Reagan. Its not the left, or the right 100%.
the Iraq war is a bad situation. Period. One could use the argument "we shouldnt be there" but that is null and void. We ARE there. So what next? Well, thats the hot topic of the day as it were, and no body who has any type of brain in their head would pretend to know all the answers. Thats what SHOULD be happening on capitol hill, a discussion as to what the next step is. Instead, we get no discussion, just arguments and mud slinging on BOTH sides. All the while our troops are in harms way and in "limbo" until we get some civil educated discussion and an appropriate action plan for Iraq. Unfourtunately the world at war has no "pause" button to give us a breather. I wish the right would stop and listen to someone else for a second and i wish the left would quit being a whiny little kid who blames everything on everybody.

The worst thing to ever happen to this country is "talking points."

[WalkingTarget]

OK.

Someone here explain to me how Bush was justified in invading Iraq after the UN had said no and there had been no concrete evidence that there were any "WMDs"

this is a serious question, how was it right?

[SCpoloRicker]

Saddam was continuing to violate the cease-fire agreement stemming from the end of the first Gulf War. Saddam was also fairly notorious for, ahem, limiting opposition to his rule. Saddam had chemical weapons, and had used them before. Saddam had started mutiple conflicts with neighbooring states.

/didn't support the invasion
//doesn't mean there was no argument for it

[bornl33t]

OK.

Someone here explain to me how Bush was justified in invading Iraq after the UN had said no and there had been no concrete evidence that there were any "WMDs"

this is a serious question, how was it right?

First of all, loose the UN. They are corrupt to the bone and really have no say what so ever. Also look up "feel good politics".

Second of all, there were reports by MANY secret services that Iraq had WMD's, NOT just the US or Britain, Germany and France made independent claims that Iraq had WMD's. Why didn't we find any? Ask Syria, the CIA has released satellite photos of large military convoys driving into Syria the weeks before we invaded a second time.

And to help you out, WMD's where not the only reason we went in. So you can drop that point right now. Instead lets talk about genocide, aiding and abetting terrorist and funding international terrorism.


But here's food for thought, IF Bush is such a evil person and is deceiving America, and America is so set on those stupid WMD's, why didn't Bush plant WMD's for our military to find?

And just do you don't think I'm blowing smoke:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041028-115519-3700r.htm
http://www.2la.org/syria/wmd.html

and you can google for information on the UN.

[The Hellforger]

well the worst part of this whole war in Iraq is back on the home front. Of course troops are over in Iraq dieing (sp?) but everyone has to die sometime and when they took their oaths to join the military they knew the risks they were taking. I joined the Marines and I ship to bootcamp in 2 weeks, I may possibly see Iraq so don't try to bash me for my previous sentance. It's the moms back home that are killing the war, They say "I support our troops" and then they turn around and say "bring our boys home". If they really supported our troops then they would be with the troops no matter what, sending them supplies they need but the military doesn't provide. Then the Democrats sieze upon the womens wishes and use it to try and stop the war. This in turn drags down our economy because they have cut funding for the war. Look at the Great Depression and WWII, it dragged us out of a depression. we are headed toward a depression as anyone with a brain can see that. We need this war to fire up harder to bring us out.

[SCpoloRicker]

Look at the Great Depression and WWII, it dragged us out of a depression. we are headed toward a depression as anyone with a brain can see that. We need this war to fire up harder to bring us out.

Wow. You win one internet.

[WalkingTarget]

Look at the Great Depression and WWII, it dragged us out of a depression. we are headed toward a depression as anyone with a brain can see that. We need this war to fire up harder to bring us out.


First off, i would like to thank you for joining the USMC. That takes both balls, honor and a certain ammount of insanity ;) :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Keep your head down!



But you hit the nail on the head there with the why of the Iraq war. Yes, saddam needed to be taken out, yes they may have funded terrorism, however so did Iran and Syria.

The reason that the US went to war in iraq is because you *need* the war to stave off an economic depression; Iraq presents a war that while in a state of attrition, is not liable to create a serious attack on US soil, whereas Iran would be willing to launch everything they have at US soil.

[FactsOfLife]

First off, i would like to thank you for joining the USMC. That takes both balls, honor and a certain ammount of insanity ;) :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Keep your head down!



But you hit the nail on the head there with the why of the Iraq war. Yes, saddam needed to be taken out, yes they may have funded terrorism, however so did Iran and Syria.

The reason that the US went to war in iraq is because you *need* the war to stave off an economic depression; Iraq presents a war that while in a state of attrition, is not liable to create a serious attack on US soil, whereas Iran would be willing to launch everything they have at US soil.



/shaking head in wonderment...

[Aggravated Assault]

...there were reports by MANY secret services that Iraq had WMD's, NOT just the US or Britain, Germany and France made independent claims that Iraq had WMD's. Why didn't we find any? Ask Syria, the CIA has released satellite photos of large military convoys driving into Syria the weeks before we invaded a second time.

And to help you out, WMD's where not the only reason we went in. So you can drop that point right now. Instead lets talk about genocide, aiding and abetting terrorist and funding international terrorism.


right wing talking points




...and you can google for information...

QFT :(

[Lohman446]

OK.

Someone here explain to me how Bush was justified in invading Iraq after the UN had said no and there had been no concrete evidence that there were any "WMDs"

this is a serious question, how was it right?

The justification is simple, repeated and continuing violation of the cease fire agreement. As Ricker pointed out just because one does not agree with something does not mean everything the other side did is so obviously wrong. Your one sidedness, after telling us how unbiased you were, is astounding.

[Aggravated Assault]

You know, I kind of looked at his posts not from the angle of "I'm unbiased", but more like: "The sources I get my information from are unbiased"

(Ya, he was pretty condecending...but, we're working on that. ;) )

Already, with some meaningful dialouge, I see a softening of his demeanor. I can sense he wants to break free of one sideness! :D (J/k) (really :) )



OK.

Someone here explain to me how Bush was justified in invading Iraq after the UN had said no and there had been no concrete evidence that there were any "WMDs"

this is a serious question, how was it right?

This is a good (and loaded) question.

In my (sometimes not so) humble opinion, there were many fair arguments for staying out and many for going in. But, methinks, when it comes down to it, how does lowly ol' me, sitting in BFE central Illinois, just outside a 26acre beanfield, know the whole picture. I mean the WHOLE picture. Not just what the spin doctors puke out to us every night on tv, some kook website or "alternative" media.

Food for thought: What do you (and me) really, and I mean really, know? What is Fact...real hard Fact? What is opinion? Is it a point of view or someone's agenda? Who's flipping the bill to put that information in front of you? What do they stand to gain? What does the guys in charge know that 99.99% of the rest of us do not know? How would that affect your decision making, if you were the "decider"?

Bottome line is: I'm not sure how justified the United States was in invading Iraq.

Because the one fact I do know is: I know I don't know the whole picture.

[maxama10]

I really wish people would stop railing on the "left" or "liberals" or whatever. Seriously. There is a MAJOR difference between most "leftists/liberals" and people that spout conspiracy theories. Most of us here on the elft fully beleive that EVERYONE is at fault. It goes back back back alot further than Bush, and Clinton, and Bush Sr, and possibly even Reagan. Its not the left, or the right 100%.
the Iraq war is a bad situation. Period. One could use the argument "we shouldnt be there" but that is null and void. We ARE there. So what next? Well, thats the hot topic of the day as it were, and no body who has any type of brain in their head would pretend to know all the answers. Thats what SHOULD be happening on capitol hill, a discussion as to what the next step is. Instead, we get no discussion, just arguments and mud slinging on BOTH sides. All the while our troops are in harms way and in "limbo" until we get some civil educated discussion and an appropriate action plan for Iraq. Unfourtunately the world at war has no "pause" button to give us a breather. I wish the right would stop and listen to someone else for a second and i wish the left would quit being a whiny little kid who blames everything on everybody.

The worst thing to ever happen to this country is "talking points."
QFT

[bentothejam1n]

Bottome line is: I'm not sure how justified the United States was in invading Iraq.

Because the one fact I do know is: I know I don't know the whole picture.
QFT

[Ninjeff]

i am forever facinated by those who claim supporting the troops means supporting the war.

Listen, its like supporting your favorite football team. You can love the team, and love the players. Buy all the gear and wear team colored underroos. But as soon as the coach makes a bad call that could cost your team the game you find yourself standing on the couch yelling at your tv screen.

I think our coach, Pres. Bush and his "assistant coaches" really made a poor choice on this game plan. And indeed it could cost us the game... but that doesnt mean i dont still root for the home team. I just think we need a serious change of ownership.

[SCpoloRicker]

Have I mentioned "get off my lawn!" or how much I hate those darn kids these days?

/give me a reasonable argument
//oh yeah, well...
///HITLER CHRISTIAN FASCIST!!

[bornl33t]

The really funny thing is that Bush is the first president in history that has dealt with an attack on American soil, a MAJOR flood, a war and no support from the other party what so ever.

I think for the cards he was dealt he is a hero. He's not perfect but no one else could have done what he has done. The rest of you are just talk. I'm done here, I've seen no independent thinking or evidence of the claimed open mind.

[Aggravated Assault]

The really funny thing is that Bush is the first president in history that has dealt with an attack on American soil, a MAJOR flood, a war and no support from the other party what so ever.

I think for the cards he was dealt he is a hero. He's not perfect but no one else could have done what he has done. The rest of you are just talk. I'm done here, I've seen no independent thinking or evidence of the claimed open mind.

Ok, Air Assault and Walking Target are at the other end of the spectrum here...Tho their posts were articulated different, The attitude is the same.

Bush is a hero and pretty much done the right thing. Oh, don't agree? You're not an independent thinker and don't have an open mind and I'm not talking to you no more.

How can there be any meaningful discourse if one or both parties has no interest in examining the other sides arguments or ideas?

[BigEvil]

Ok, Air Assault and Walking Target are at the other end of the spectrum here...Tho their posts were articulated different, The attitude is the same. Bush is a hero and pretty much done the right thing.



While there are many of us that frequently drink from the idealogical Cool-Ail pitchers from both sides, right and wrong are not subjective or relative.

Many people have the notion, or at least act like, there is no problem, there is no 'war on terror' and that there are NOT people in the worlds looking to do us as much harm as possible. Many of these people use this for political gain, which only makes it worst. We can sit here and argue or discuss different view points on taxes, school reform, pork barrel project or whatever until we are blue in the face. However, there is one side of the argument that is ACTIVELY seeking America's defeat.

How can you have a rational discussion with people who can not even acknowledge the problem, OR agree that whatever course of action is taken should lead to victory?

I will repspect anyone opinions because in America we can think and say what we want (as long as your not Don Imus). However, just because people are entitled to them does not mean that they are not reckless and dangerous.

[FactsOfLife]

Ok, Air Assault and Walking Target are at the other end of the spectrum here...Tho their posts were articulated different, The attitude is the same. Bush is a hero and pretty much done the right thing.

Oh, don't agree? You're not an independent thinker and don't have an open mind and I'm not talking to you no more.

How can there be any meaningful discourse if one or both parties has no interest in examining the other sides arguments or ideas?

when the other side is OPENLY advocating the defeat of my country when it's at war, I'm done having a discourse with them.

Mostly at this point, I'm staying out of their way and letting them hang themselves with the rope of failure.

[paintballfiend]

...right and wrong are not subjective or relative.
:confused:
Que?

[SCpoloRicker]

...right and wrong are not subjective or relative.


:confused:
Que?

Oh lordy, here we go...

[Aggravated Assault]

While there are many of us that frequently drink from the idealogical Cool-Ail pitchers from both sides, right and wrong are not subjective or relative.

Many people have the notion, or at least act like, there is no problem, there is no 'war on terror' and that there are NOT people in the worlds looking to do us as much harm as possible. Many of these people use this for political gain, which only makes it worst. We can sit here and argue or discuss different view points on taxes, school reform, pork barrel project or whatever until we are blue in the face. However, there is one side of the argument that is ACTIVELY seeking America's defeat.

How can you have a rational discussion with people who can not even acknowledge the problem, OR agree that whatever course of action is taken should lead to victory?

I will repspect anyone opinions because in America we can think and say what we want (as long as your not Don Imus). However, just because people are entitled to them does not mean that they are not reckless and dangerous.


Yes, there is a problem right now with people on both sides being closed minded, but I left out what I think the bigger problem is. How we, not only get our information, but how we digest it, form our opinions and have a position on an issue.

Why do so many argue in "sound bytes" or "talking points"? Ok, so those guys got mad at me for saying talking points, but hasn't all of us heard em' before on both sides? And we're programed to go off when someone says a buzzword. It's like everyone takes whatever they hear at face value. If it's Jefferson qoutes or WMDs trucked over to Syria, don't matter, take it and run. Geez, there's a couple people who think Ricker's pushing a conspiricy theory about that tanker exploding...

I don't think all of those of the left are seeking our defeat, I think a lot are just repeating what they see - which is only the headlines. The summary. Reading the first couple of paragraphs and that's it. Got enough information to make my mind up. Some on the right are no better.

We as a society have a major case of ADD.

[geekwarrior]

so left wing wacos and right wing radicals :p

what is the US suppose to do about Iran (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/14/world/middleeast/14cnd-iran.html?ei=5065&en=3c9eea7cdf75deb3&ex=1179806400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print)

[Lohman446]

so left wing wacos and right wing radicals :p

what is the US suppose to do about Iran (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/14/world/middleeast/14cnd-iran.html?ei=5065&en=3c9eea7cdf75deb3&ex=1179806400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print)

Start on open and honest dialogue on the issue of Iraq first of all. Iran has stated they want to help - if we annoy Iran and then leave will Iraq ever be stable? It would seem to me we have a need to have them on board with the final solution in Iraq, whatever it may be, just so that it lasts. It leaves us a point to start communication, perhaps to work our way upward from being basically the den of all evil in their minds. More to the point, what can we lose?

[SCpoloRicker]

Geez, there's a couple people who think Ricker's pushing a conspiricy theory about that tanker exploding...

Clearly, this poster is in the employ of MJ-13/Illuminati operation spearheaded by Mossad/CIA/cointelpro. He's trying to detract you all from the truth.

4/29 Truth!!

[Aggravated Assault]

so left wing wacos and right wing radicals :p


Nah, The people who listen to the wackos and radicals. :)

Look at this whole thread. It started out about the "Fort Dix six" and paintball. A couple pages later it's about Bush reading "my pet goat" and scrambling jets on 9/11.

Air Assault brought up a good point on page one, but framed his first post around the opinions: america hates people because of their race and religion. The government has fabricated things before (so they probably are now). Government tends to come up with fantastic claims about groups of people. And lastly, we torture our prisoners connected with the war on terror. You know, crap you hear repeated all the time in the media.

Its ADD. When he thought his opinion was being attacked later, sticking to the actual topic was not an option. We're on to oil now. Talking points and buzzwords. Then everybody jumped in the fun :D

I was laughing my head off for awhile. :)