What are the differneces in automags?

[varq]

Hi all, I am new to AO and would like to know if anyone can outline the difference between the diff mags (i am sure alot of newbs thinking the same thing)

XMAG EMAG RT Pnemomag etc etc

thanks

[Ninjeff]

wow thats a great question.

More so than any other gun (except maybe cockers) the automags are varied but all operate on the same basic tech.

There ar emony other guys on here that are tons smarter than myself when it comes to mags, but, basically:

Classic: Pretty much the bare-bones style mag. The mag in this form has been around 15 years or more, standard mechanical, semi-auto marker. Just because the tech is old, dont let that fool you. They have remained unchanged because, well, they WORK. extremely reliable and simple. Many many many upgrades and mods available. Cheap and effective, buy a new one today and i am possitive it will still be rocking faces 10 years from now. They are their name, Classic.

RT Mag: same deal, slightly different rail on the gun, only instead of a classic valve they use an RT valve (or x-valve). This uses the air from a shot to "push" or reset the trigger allowing for "bounce" or autofire if you sweet spot the trigger.

The x-valve is the "high end" valve on mags. Just as reliable as a classic valve....only better.

Pnuemag: er...i'll let someone else do this, i dont know much about them....

E-Mag: electronic mag, but unlike other electro guns, you can switch an Emag from electro to mech with the flip of a switch. This way your gun is never NOT working.
For me? An emag is my dream gun. Uber sweet.

X-Mag: ah the X-mag. This would be the "holy grail" of mags. Few were made, and you can expect to pay a good penny for one, but when it comes to Mags, and some would say markers in general, there is none higher.
Its pretty much an EMag on steroids. Or, as i call em, the Lamborghini of the mag world.

Again, im relatively new to mags myself (about 6 months) and im still learning, but im sure the wise sages of AO can answer any question you may have. And indeed, alot better than i could (or did)

_J

++ps, i have a awesome classic for sale...if your interested ;)

[JRingold]

I'll expand a little, and I'm sure there will be more "versions" that pop up...

To expand on the Classic, there was the Mini-Mag as well. Basically a Classic AutoMag with a slightly different body, a vertical ASA and an 8" barrel.

There was a Micro Mag, which has a unibody (Rail and Body in one part).

There are two versions of the RT. There's the RT Classic, which uses a Banjobolt, so the air is fed to the valve through a port in the rail. The RT-Pro uses either an X-Valve or a "ReTro" valve, which is basically the RT drop in for the Classic or MiniMag.

The eMag is basically an electronically actuated RT-Pro.

The XMag is an e-Mag, except with an Ant-Chop Eye, a aluminum unibody and a changeable breech.

[mag_lover05]

ive been into mags since 04 joined AO in 05, and ive had various mags, but i like the classic i have right now the best...it just fits me. dont know if that helped any.

[Ninjeff]

some one should post pictures of the various different kinds.....maybe ill get to that here in a sec....

I know pics always help me when learning

[C.J.]

Hi all, I am new to AO and would like to know if anyone can outline the difference between the diff mags (i am sure alot of newbs thinking the same thing)

XMAG EMAG RT Pnemomag etc etc

thanks

I was exactly where you were about a month ago. ;)

Here's the short, easy explanation that will let you figure out exactly what any given 'mag is that you're looking at.

There are "off the shelf" Automags that use particular combinations of parts and get certain labels - "68 Classic," "Minimag," "E-Mag/X-Mag" etc.

The AGD museum at Airgun.com is a good place to see some of those off-the-shelf 'mags.
Here's the marker gallery: http://www.airgun.com/museum/MarkerGallery.htm

...and the main museum:
http://www.airgun.com/museum/Gallerys.htm

What can be confusing for newcomers to 'mag-land is there are so many custom 'mags it's hard to understand what they all are. Here are the rules:

There are 4 main components to any Automag.

Rail
Trigger-frame
Body
Valve


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1/af895/paintball/AGD/Automag_parts.jpg

You can mix and match almost all types of each, with a few exceptions which I won't get in to mostly because I'm not familiar enough with them. I'll wait for a 'mag expert to chime in on those but I believe they're mostly centered around the original, 1996 "RT" model which was highly non-standardized. The new 2000 "RT-Pro" seems to use standard parts.

Air goes into the side of the valve on an Automag. You could run a remote directly to it with a QD fitting or, as you see most 'mags configured, you run either braided steel hose or macroline to either the vertical ASA (grip) and then to the bottomline or from the valve directly to a bottomline ASA.

*** *** ***

Something to add to the previous posts:
Only the "Classic" valve (68 Automag, Minimag, 68 Classic) can use CO2. Other valves REQUIRE HPA. Simple reason: the pressure drop created in the other valves is so great it liquifies gaseous CO2 and you freeze them - instantly.

Why design a new valve that does this? AGD (Tom Kaye specifically) wanted a valve that would cycle and recharge faster without shoot-down. They got it but the side-effect was the dependency on HPA. I'm a CO2 nut because I don't shoot much and can get away with a tiny, 3.5oz tank. A comparable tank in HPA would be 35c.i. which doesn't exist.

If you don't mind lugging HPA, you might prefer the ReTro or X-valve. Someone else can describe what these valves do to trigger pull - it's possible to make it reactive with a practically non-existant pull. You can't generally do that with a Classic Valve - or so I've read.

If you want to use CO2, you need to use an anti-siphon tank (or a 12-gram cartridge...but I digress) and it's highly advisable to use a PPS Stabilizer. Expansion chambers were in vogue for a while and some people still use them but I prefer to just keep liquid out of the system with anti-siphon and then regulate the pressure with the Stab'. (This is from PPS Blazer experience - my 'mag arrives Monday)

Hope this helps!

EDIT: added photo above. Here are links to YouTube videos of Tom Kaye dissecting a Classic Mag:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vehPc7vuK20&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d58lF4FGhA&mode=user&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eWM4GkI1PE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th0mG29aW2Q&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvme3R0g03w&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQnGpQYuvlw&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huoHWAt_2CI&mode=user&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEcQwpwcHt8&mode=user&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9Hll4jOOj8&mode=related&search=

[Ninjeff]

OH! And by the way. WATCH THOSE VIDEOS!!!!!!

Not only are they informative, but for me i gained an immense amount of respect and admiration for T.K. after the videos. Sure, they are old...(real old..lol) But the beauty of mags is that they never really changed. Sure, and update here, a new bit of coolness there. But all in all, what you learn in those videos will apply largely to every automag out there.

I marvel at my mag everytime i take it apart. Its shear genius how they were designed and there still hasnt been a gun made that can compare to the ease of owning an Automag.

Tom Kaye is one of the greatest forefathers of paintball. Most of the tech and industry largely wouldnt exist without his mustache.....

I mean brilliance...what i menat to say was "wouldnt exist without his brilliance." :ninja:

[gus13]

also don't forget that there are a ton of aftermarket parts that are Non-AGD produced that are here on AO. so you will see alot of vert frames and various rails on as well.
while I personally do not have/never used a pneumag the basic idea behind it (AO Sages correct me if I misinform) is to use air to cycle the trigger very very quickly.(I belive its alot like the 3way on a Cocker but makes the trigger "go")
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/3/8215043261.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5055736) (thank sTaLa for putting up the pic!) here you can get an idea how the internals of a pneumag works, and its all w/out any elctronics whatsoever. very cool, you'll also see some pneus with the lpr outside just like most electros have. several people on here are able to do this for you if you want one and your not comfortable doing it youself.

[varq]

Wow... thanks all for replying... so much to learn. I am sure i will start looking at upgrades once i bond with my tac1.

thanks :cheers:

[Coralis]

Nickel plated micromag with and aftermarket electric frame

(hyperframe)http://home.earthlink.net/~solrocoralis/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/hypermicro.jpg

[C.J.]

I was just about to edit my post when Coralis posted. ;)

The Micromag is, I think, the only Automag that combines the rail and the body. You'll see from the photo above, they aren't two seperate parts. (EDIT: OK! E-Mags and X-Mags seem to have combined bodies and rails too)

Micromags take Autococker threaded barrels and have a detent on the side of the body.

Micromags are just like any other 'mag though - they'll take whatever valve and trigger-frame you want, with the exception of the original RT which, as mentioned, used non-standard parts.

[shorty24]

I was just about to edit my post when Coralis posted. ;)

The Micromag is, I think, the only Automag that combines the rail and the body. You'll see from the photo above, they aren't two seperate parts.

Micromags take Autococker threaded barrels and have a detent on the side of the body.

Micromags are just like any other 'mag though - they'll take whatever valve and trigger-frame you want, with the exception of the original RT which, as mentioned, used non-standard parts.

Actually, the X-mag and SFL E-mag combine body/rail as well... :rolleyes:

[gus13]

Actually, the X-mag and SFL E-mag combine body/rail as well... :rolleyes:
and I was just going to post that as well :clap:

[trev_pbller]

Nevermind, I thought the karta was combined too....I'm glad to see newer members asking questions about these awesome guns. So many people I meet today that play paintball have no clue with they are, and it's a shame.

Good luck!

[Myzek]

So can you put a aftermarket E frame on a RT??

[JG2790]

Don't forget the PTP Micro E-Mag. Basically a Micromag with an E-Mag frame. Uses a combined rail and body.

-Jan

[mudpie]

Wow, so much information to digest. So I'm most interested in the micromag for its compactness and simplicity. But I'm an information/research junkie, so I must know more!
Much obliged to anybody who can answer more questions?
Is that a powerfeed I see in the pic?
Can it accept a Level 10 anti-chop?
Any pitfalls with the micromag compared to a minimag in terms of reliability, serviceability, etc.?

Thanks! I love this forum! :clap:

[Nick E]

1: Yes, that's a powerfeed. Also note the wierd looking thing on the side? I think that's an early detent.
2: Yes, it can accept level 10/lvlx. I think every AGD marker can(even original r/ts) except for field rentals and sydarms.
3: Not really. The tolerances on micromags are notoriously shady. Not really bad, but it can be annoying when you need an on/off pin that's shorter or longer because your rail is taller or shorter. They also tend to be more expensive, though just about as reliable.

PS: One thing, even if you antisiphon and regulate, you still won't be able to run co2 on a rt/emag/xvalve well. It's possible, but it doesn't work well and is hell on your o rings, no matter what you send it through first.

[Cryptkeeper]

I was wandering if you use N2 in all the guns is there a differance in accuracy between the classic vs RT vs emag vs Xmag assumeing all else is the same all but the valve. or is the differance only in the rate of fire

[C.J.]

I was wandering if you use N2 in all the guns is there a differance in accuracy between the classic vs RT vs emag vs Xmag assumeing all else is the same all but the air and valve. or is the differance only in the rate of fire

You're going to get a bunch of people telling you HPA is more accurate.

Accuracy is a function of consistency which is how your gas source will affect your marker

HPA is not inherently more consistent than CO2. HPA IS more consistent than POORLY MANAGED CO2.

If you know how to handle CO2, which means using anti-siphon and putting a regulator or two between the CO2 source and the AIR valve, it CAN be made as consistent as HPA.

I've done it, on two markers now. Both are the most accurate markers I've ever shot - ball on ball to 75'+, hitting masks at 150'. I can put a ball through a 2-inch crack in a bunker on the first try, running anti-siphon CO2 with either double PPS Stabilizers (Blazer) or a single PPS Stab' into the Classic Automag AIR valve regulator.

The reason CO2 got the bad rap was a case of people not understanding it. HPA is easy: fill bottle, screw it on, go. CO2 is liquid in compressed state. If you don't know what you're doing with it, you'll get liquid into the marker and you get inconsistent velocity which leads to poor accuracy.

[phizz]

warp right mag with x-valve
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/4/11014255448.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5275789)
my old z-body mag with a classic rail cocker threaded body that gives you a flatline effect
http://f10.putfile.com/7/19005271977-thumb.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=2991546)
sydarm. The agd handgun. Twist lock barrel
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/34823484952.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4262708)
minimag body classic rail. Classic 68 valve
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/32616423192.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4068925)
x-mag :( I sold it! interchangable breech, cocker threaded
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/26815184089.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3505287)
dallara body(right)cocker threaded and karta bodied (left) emag. both of which I sold too :(
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/26815184089.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3505287)
smae markers switched around
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/26813120595.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3504216)

[phizz]

my first emag basically your plain old emag, emag valve lvl10, twist lock body
http://x402.putfile.com/4/11316450493-thumb.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=2443420)
karta (cocker thread) with rt pro rail
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35220364577.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4292437)
q-bow with hyperframe
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/2/4902561982.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4805360)
q-bow without hyperframe. Tac one body, with a longbow stock
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/2618212989.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4616713)
micromag unibody no need for a rail, cocker threaded
http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/7/19414353410.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=3023722)

[griffin86@gmail.com]

My (Rt-ULE)Mag with X-Valve:
X-valve w/lvl ten bolt
Chrome ULE Body
DW Dallara Rail
Intelliframe
Viperblade Pro Trigger by RPG
Sp All American 14"
CP On/Off ASA
Dye Sticky3 Grips

<a href="http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5603411"><img src="http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15402274172.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

<a href="http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5603414"><img src="http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15402274255.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

<a href="http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5603407"><img src="http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15402274153.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

<a href="http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5603409"><img src="http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15402274171.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

<a href="http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5603412"><img src="http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/15402274193.jpg" alt="Click to enlarge"></a>

[gruntbull]

Remember the first time you were shot with an Automag? Mine was in 1995... aw that sucked (I got hit in the groin)

Anyways...
Great markers.

Classic- Old school, think bare bones.
Mini- old school but shorter
Micro- not as old but still old and shorter and smaller (integrated Rail/body combo)
E-Mag Electromag Battery pack as a foregrip, Electric Hybrid or Mechanical operation at the flip of a switch uses magnetic HALLS (correct me if I am wrong on the lingo) switch
XMag CNC E-Mag few were made

Some other notables:
SFL E-Mag Shocktech made these
Tac-One (body with Rail Integration System- Pictanny Rails)
Logic, Rogue, Tunaman, Cerebus, and a few others make aftermarket parts that are used.
Level 10 or LVL 10 or LVL X bolt, there is a video of someone using their tongue to show how light it is on the ball before firing... its like a small spool valve on the bolt that you adjust so that minimal pressure is forcing the bolt forward until the ball is completely chambered into the barrel (who needs eyes with a Level 10???) SWEET IDEA!
X Valve- HPA only HIGH PRESSURE around 800-900 is best (some even say more I believe)
Classic Valve- C02 or HPA high pressure is best

That may help a little, if I am wrong on something please correct gents.

[Lenny]

So can you put a aftermarket E frame on a RT??
Sure you can! Automags are one of the most easily modifiable guns out there.

Now, there are a couple of ways to do this:
1. Buy E/X-Mag lowers
2. Buy a Hyperframe
3. Get ahold of a Devilframe or Logic electro frame
4. Modify a Spyder frame to fit (or send it to Luke, he's famous for these mods)
5. Build yourself an EP frame (using a compatible board, or using an Ion board without the capacitor; Pneumagger and a few other can do this mod for you)
6. Build a pneumag (okay, so pneumags aren't electro, but they offer a VERY light and short pull comparable to electros; Pneumagger, CyberRave, and a few other do this mod also.)

Some of these are parts specific, though. E/X-Mags can run using a Classic valve, but not with satisfactory results; you'll want an RT valve of some sort with an EMag on/off or else you may run into issues.

The Hyperframe needs a bit of tweaking so it wont chew up the bolt. Either a tuned RT/ULT or a Hyper on/off.

The Devil, Logic, EP mods, and converted Spyder frames require a tuned ULT to function correctly. If you are using a Classic valve, you will need an RT on/off (RT on/off offer a lighter trigger pull than Classics without the fear of excessive short stroking).

The pneumag will operate using any valve or on/off, but, the heavier the on/off, the heavier the trigger pull weight. This is because the LPR will need to be putting out a higher pressure to trip the sear. Even with a heavy on/off, the trigger pull will still be obnoxiously light.



Remember the first time you were shot with an Automag? Mine was in 1995... aw that sucked (I got hit in the groin)

Dude! Me too! But in '98 for me. The first time I ever played, there were these two real cool black guys lookin' all rasta with thier dreadlocks and tie-died camo (seriously, camo colored ti-die shirts) and rockin' MiniMags. I had never played before and didn't think to wear a cup. First game, whack! Right in the gonads.

That sucked.