so i have to make a decision between cars

[wombo102]

basically ive got $4000 and i relaly want to get a new car with it. im either thinking a jeep cherokee or a volvo of some kind. only thing is i know nothing about volvo's i just think they look cool, and if i get a jeep im gonna try and make it huge to off rodeing in. so my questions are, can i make a volvo fast??? what would be the best volvo to get if i want it to be pretty quick and how are they on gas. and if i get a jeep is it terribly expensive to put upgrades on it (lift kits, tires, ect...) and how is it on gas??? but yeah thanks and peace.

[MANN]

Dont get the jeep. I dont know much about the volvo, but the jeep will always give you problems.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

How old are you? Do you have a regular job?

$4000, doesn't buy you much of either vehicle. All things considered making a jeep cherokee "huge to off rodeing in" is not the same as making a Wrangler an off road vehicle. Your looking at putting $4000 in parts into a jeep to actually make it an off-roader, especially a cherokee. Volvo's aren't fast, they are solidly built, except some years, and safe. You would be looking at a very high to high mileage older volvo.

Go buy a civic, you'll be able to afford the gas for that.

[doc_Zox]

why do you want to re engineer technology that experts have already properly designed?

get a car
drive it to work
earn money
buy a better car

IMHO, upgrading to some magazine's Walter Mitty fantasy spec is a fools errand.

$4k will get you a 1995 S70 with 80-100K miles
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ONLY-72k-MILES-AWD-XTRA-CLEAN-WARRANTY-i29_W0QQitemZ290115803866QQihZ019QQcategoryZ6462QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or a 2001 cherokee with 200K miles:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-JEEP-CHEROKEE-SPORT-4x4-4WD-COLD-A-C-1-OWNER-NICE_W0QQitemZ130116932908QQihZ003QQcategoryZ6281Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

or a 98 with 100K:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-JEEP-CHEROKEE-SPORT-4WD-4DR_W0QQitemZ140120778680QQihZ004QQcategoryZ6281QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[maxama10]

Dont get the jeep. I dont know much about the volvo, but the jeep will always give you problems.
Wrong.

However, I would not go for the Jeep, being that:
*Drink gas
*Upgrades expensive
*Youll get hooked

[gimp]

Spend 500 bucks on an old junker. Invest the rest of the money.

[olinar]

heres is what i am doing and is what i would reccomend as well. im getting a nissan 240sx. they can be had pretty cheap and can be upgraded very nicely. alot of them are used for racing/drifting. im just getting into the tuner scene and a 240 is a great starter car.

[AirAssault]

The biggest question here is why are you coming onto a forum and asking people what you should get? Opinions are like buttholes, every one has one and they all stink. YOU need to do the leg work and decide what YOU want. Now, that being said, you should get the best car you can for the money no matter how cool you think it looks or how "hot" some girl thinks it is. Many things you need to look at. How much is this thing going to cost you in upkeep, gas, insurance? You will get raped on the volvo as far as if anything goes wrong with it. They are some of the best cars on the road IMHO but, you have to pay to keep em that way. "Looking into an S40 awd as we speak" Honda, Toyota, and other smaller foreign cars are prob the way to go. Saturn's are good cars and will be light on the gas bill. Old saabs run like champs, but again, upkeep will cost you. Good luck.

[neppo1345]

Theres no point in upgrading either vehicle unless you have a second as a daily driver.

If you get into the tuner scene, you'll eventually break something and be out of a car till you can afford to fix it.

If you get into the off-roading scene, you'll break something (quickly; I know from experience) and be out of a car until you can afford to fix it.

I drove a jeep (wrangler) for two years.

I drive a saturn Ion now.

Once I graduate college (hopefully in 4 more years; it's a 5 year program) I'll have the money to have two vehicles and can buy another Jeep, but not until then.

[olinar]

everything said above should definitely be taken into consideration. money is always the deciding factor, as well as convenience. project cars need backups especially if they double as a daily driver. either way, its a very exciting experience but shouldnt be taken lightly.

[skife]

toyota > jeep

[Pacifist_Farmer]

toyota > jeep

useless without facts

[etjoyride]

toyota > jeep

Bwahahaha... well maybe in jumps....

[SCpoloRicker]

So, the choice is a) tuner volvo or b) off rodeing Jeep...

Uh, neither. Buy an old clunker.

/'02 Ford Focus
//spending money on cars is stupid, invest

[Lohman446]

Have to agree with Ricker :P

02 Taurus - less than a months pay :P

PS - DO NOT buy an 850 Volvo - likely all you are going to touch in that price range (unless you want the old 240 battle wagon), and I would be worried about any Volvo you can buy in that price range.

[MANN]

Wrong.

However, I would not go for the Jeep, being that:
*Drink gas
*Upgrades expensive
*Youll get hooked

I know for a fact that the transmission in them are POS. I have had 2 friends that both had their trannys go out, and my family owns a transmission shop, and gets TONS of buisness from them.

That being said I would not buy a jeep cherokee. At least not an older one. (for 4 grand that is probally what you are looking at.)

As for volvos I dunno. never really liked the name.

[master_alexander]

toyota < jeep


fixed.

i would go with the jeep--im a jeep guy. i dont trust myself with a fast car. not because i would wreck it, but i couldnt afford a speeding ticket :). my friend let me drive his GT mustang, and, well... i hit 100 where im usally at 65. so jeep is my car.

also look into this: making a jeep an off-road vehicle... usally geared toward mudding or rock crawling. i enjoy both however for me, mudding was cheaper. get a small lift and some bigger tires (im running at 2 inch body lift for tire clearance from 33's) and you will be set.

[chettacheez]

You can make the Cherokee fast and have the best of both worlds. All you gotta do is stroke that 4.0l to a 4.6l

And MANN, the AW4 in Cherokee's are very stout, they'll hold up to just about anything. Its the same trans behind auto supras. I'd have to say your buddies were doing some dumb stuff with em.

If you maintain your jeep, they'll last forever. I know a few guys over 300,000 miles on the stock 4.0

[PyRo]

Figure 14-18 MPG around town with the Cherokee, probably 18-22 on the highway.
As far as offroading with it what do you want to do? A 1.5in body lift (don't go any higher on a body lift) is probably $150 and that should get you up to 31s. Any more that that is going to be a suspension lift which can get pricey. Figure around $400 for a cheap one, $650 for a decent one, and $1200 for a very good one. For anything under 3in you don't need to worry about much. Over 3in you need a transfer case drop (which makes the lift pointless) or an SYE and a new drive shaft. If you're running 33s you can probably get away with going very easy on it and keeping the stock axles for a while. Once it brakes though you're going to want to put in an 8.8 or DANA 44 at least. Larger than 33s and you are going to need new differentials right off the bat. You will also need a whole lot of stuff I forgot to list.

Overall the Cherokees are pretty good vehicles. People complain about gas mileage but compare it to similar vehicles and it's not bad. As far as transmissions go they go go bad like any car. I'd try and find a 5spd with an AX15.

What I would do is go pick up a late 80s, early 90s Cherokee for under or around a grand. Then what it does break you can afford to fix it and learn to do some work on it. Once you learn a bit then you can start doing lifts and such because if you're planning on paying someone to do the work for you you better have pretty deep pockets.

[chettacheez]

Figure 14-18 MPG around town with the Cherokee, probably 18-22 on the highway.
As far as offroading with it what do you want to do? A 1.5in body lift (don't go any higher on a body lift) is probably $150 and that should get you up to 31s. Any more that that is going to be a suspension lift which can get pricey. Figure around $400 for a cheap one, $650 for a decent one, and $1200 for a very good one. For anything under 3in you don't need to worry about much. Over 3in you need a transfer case drop (which makes the lift pointless) or an SYE and a new drive shaft. If you're running 33s you can probably get away with going very easy on it and keeping the stock axles for a while. Once it brakes though you're going to want to put in an 8.8 or DANA 44 at least. Larger than 33s and you are going to need new differentials right off the bat. You will also need a whole lot of stuff I forgot to list.

Overall the Cherokees are pretty good vehicles. People complain about gas mileage but compare it to similar vehicles and it's not bad. As far as transmissions go they go go bad like any car. I'd try and find a 5spd with an AX15.

BTW you cant body lift a cherokee, they're unibody.

I'd say, throw a LSD in the rear, 2 inch spacers, and throw on some 31's and go have fun. Thats cheap and enough to get you through just about anything and you wont be breaking things left and right.

[PyRo]

BTW you cant body lift a cherokee, they're unibody.

Opps, I got it confused with a wrangler there for a minute.

[master_alexander]

Opps, I got it confused with a wrangler there for a minute.

yeah.. when i was talking about my car i meant wrangler for the body lift.

a friend of my has a cherokee..

paging etjoyride

[skife]

Figure 14-18 MPG around town with the Cherokee, probably 18-22 on the highway.
As far as offroading with it what do you want to do? A 1.5in body lift (don't go any higher on a body lift) is probably $150 and that should get you up to 31s. Any more that that is going to be a suspension lift which can get pricey. Figure around $400 for a cheap one, $650 for a decent one, and $1200 for a very good one. For anything under 3in you don't need to worry about much. Over 3in you need a transfer case drop (which makes the lift pointless) or an SYE and a new drive shaft. If you're running 33s you can probably get away with going very easy on it and keeping the stock axles for a while. Once it brakes though you're going to want to put in an 8.8 or DANA 44 at least. Larger than 33s and you are going to need new differentials right off the bat. You will also need a whole lot of stuff I forgot to list.

Overall the Cherokees are pretty good vehicles. People complain about gas mileage but compare it to similar vehicles and it's not bad. As far as transmissions go they go go bad like any car. I'd try and find a 5spd with an AX15.

What I would do is go pick up a late 80s, early 90s Cherokee for under or around a grand. Then what it does break you can afford to fix it and learn to do some work on it. Once you learn a bit then you can start doing lifts and such because if you're planning on paying someone to do the work for you you better have pretty deep pockets.



people run stock axels with supports welded in running 38"s in toyotas.

[SCpoloRicker]

people run stock axels with supports welded in running 38"s in toyotas.

With 22Rs. Making <150hp.

Honestly, if you're actually using the vehicle off-road with 38s, you're gonna need better axles.

I snapped my Dana 30 on 31s in my TJ. And it wasn't even that hairy of a situation.

[neppo1345]

With 22Rs. Making <150hp.

Honestly, if you're actually using the vehicle off-road with 38s, you're gonna need better axles.

I snapped my Dana 30 on 31s in my TJ. And it wasn't even that hairy of a situation.

Agreed.

Bigger tires = Bigger Brakes + Bigger Axles and so on.

[skife]

With 22Rs. Making <150hp.

Honestly, if you're actually using the vehicle off-road with 38s, you're gonna need better axles.

I snapped my Dana 30 on 31s in my TJ. And it wasn't even that hairy of a situation.

thats a dana 30.

these are stronger than a 44, and with a few mods people have said they can be as strong as a D60.

:P

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1218/rampia8.jpg

[SCpoloRicker]

Isn't stock basically an 8.8 ring? I mean, yeah, it's better than a D30, but "like a D60 with mods" sounds a lot like "My Ion is as good as your XXX, its upped to the max".

[maxama10]

people run stock axels with supports welded in running 38"s in toyotas.
Support what? Your axle shafts?

Edit: Even if you eliminated the toyota birfield joint and added chromoly axle shafts youd never get the strength that a properly set up D60 would have

Dana 60: (were talking about the 60/35 spline not the 44 /19 spline one)
Max load (SRW): 4500lbs,
Max torque short duration: 5550 Lbs.Ft. Continuous: 1500 Lbs.Ft. - these figures unconfirmed
Axle tube dia. 3.125", wall thickness 0.5"
Weight center section = 120lbs.

Weight, fully dressed single wheel front Chevy 60 complete, locking hub to hub 518lbs

Weight, fully dressed single wheel front Ford RC 60 complete, locking hub to hub 460-480lbs

Max steer angle = 40 degrees

Cover Bolts: 10

Diff cover 10-3/4 X 11-1/2"

Side gear spline24/48 pitch,30T 1.250 P.D.
Ring Gear dia.=9.750", tooth width 1.4370"
Ring Gear Diameter: 9 3/4"
Ring Gear Bolts: (12) RH Thread 1/2" X 20
Pinion Shaft Diameter: 1.625"

Pinion Splines: 1.2760" 29 Involute Splines
Carrier split, regular cut: 4.10 down / 4.56 up
courtesy of Pirate4x4.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Toyota 8.0 inch:
1.3” (major) diameter, 45/ 30-spline axle-shafts.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/129_0012_toyota_rear_axle_upgrade/index.html
interesting read
notice how they say standard D60 though, not heavy duty.

/has bent a dana 44 :rolleyes:
//isnt saying the Toy 8.0 isnt a good axle
///owns one :)

[etjoyride]

As far as jeep axles are concerned I'm going to add in that people commonly run up to 35" tires on a front D30 without problems (although i strongly suggest you use alloy shafts). The C8.25 rear is also known to be able to go up to 35's (again with alloy shafts). It also has a lot to do with how you drive. For example, I pretty much smash my gas when i drive (at least at times) which would make it difficult and possibly dangerous for me to run large tires on these axles, but some people can pull it off.

Also, as far as suspension is concerned, Rough Country, Rustys (don't suggest) and a few other makers make some decent 3ish or so inch lift kits for at or under 500.

Also, i'm not sure if this is allowed, but here is a link to a GREAT JEEP forum www.jeepforum.com

[PyRo]

Go to Jeepforum.com and tell them you're going to get a rough country lift and run 35s with stock axles. You'll get laughed right off the boards :)

[skife]

Go to Jeepforum.com and tell them you're going to get a rough country lift and run 35s with stock axles. You'll get laughed right off the boards :)


go to pirate4x4.com and ask any question what so ever and they will be rude to you and tell you to search.

[maxama10]

go to pirate4x4.com and ask any question what so ever and they will be rude to you and tell you to search.
Agreed. Even in the noob friendly section.

[skife]

i stick to greatlakes4x4.com and yotatech.com