Tippman releases an etrigger with a hall effect sensor.

[d4m4don3]

Will wonders never cease?
The hall effect sensor which is patented by AGD is now getting a little bit more popular.

http://www.68caliber.com/news/industry/story042445.php

[egb groupie]

Will wonders never cease?
The hall effect sensor which is patented by AGD is now getting a little bit more popular.

http://www.68caliber.com/news/industry/story042445.php

If my memory serves me correctly, the Hall Effect was well known before AGD adapted it for paintball use, and I think it might have been used in some kind of naval gun on ships. I think it would be more correct to say that AGD was the first to use the HES system in a paintball gun, along with compressed air etc etc....

[Warwitch]

Maybe they can pull a SmartParts move and get some royalties :spit_take

[Hexis]

The hall effect sensor which is patented by AGD...


Really? Which patent is that?

[nmib]

Maybe they can pull a SmartParts move and get some royalties :spit_take


:tard:

[CoolHand]

Hall Effect Sensors have been used for a long time (since the early '70's anyway) in industrial automation to sense positions in the travel of an air cylinder for instance, or to track the location of a carriage along a linear slide, etc.

They are just a magnetic proximity sensor, and were developed long ago for many other things.

IMO it's not a very good switch for a PB marker, too complex for no real gains.

The PB industry is headed for another period of gadgetry IMO, as all the major IP is locked up in three or four very broad patents, so no one is going to bother to inovate anymore. Just bolt on some more/new crap ano it a different color than last year, and go to market as "new and improved".

[d4m4don3]

If my memory serves me correctly, the Hall Effect was well known before AGD adapted it for paintball use, and I think it might have been used in some kind of naval gun on ships. I think it would be more correct to say that AGD was the first to use the HES system in a paintball gun, along with compressed air etc etc....

Sorry let us rephrase it then.

The hall effect sensor that was 1st adapted to paintball by AGD.


Although I remember someone postingthat PTP gave the Hall Effect patent (for paintball purposes) to AGD for the e-mag during its development. Yet I can't find the thread anymore. If I'm mistaken then by all means let me put on a flame retardent suit on before the napalms hit me in a flamefest. :hail:

Just wanted everyones thoughts on the hall effect going into the mainstream after AGD introduced it a few years ago.

edit:

Trigger Patent (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=9&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=hatcher&s2=forest&OS=hatcher+AND+forest&RS=hatcher+AND+forest)

PTP trigger patent #6,802,305 (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=9&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=hatcher&s2=forest&OS=hatcher+AND+forest&RS=hatcher+AND+forest)

Interesting thread that detailed ptp's developments on the emag and some patent info among other things. (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=185407)

[cyrus-the-virus]

I just find it ironic that the Paintball Industry largely rebuffed many features included on mags....until they put it on their markers.

HES...not cool, until Invert used it.
Hump on the back of the trigger frame...not cool, until the Timmy/Bob Long used it.
Battery Pack in the foregrip...not cool, until Invert used it.
Single Tube marker...not cool, until the Ion did it.

I guess from a technical standpoint, since innovation is all but gone, that its inevitable for these companies to adopt the only thing left....the stuff they said was 'not cool' just a few years ago.

kinda funny how that works ain't it?

Though I still dislike the "hump".... and I like optical triggers better...

[rkjunior303]

Single Tube marker...not cool, until the Ion did it.

i didn't notice the 2nd tube on the shocker - thanks for pointing that out.

[BigEvil]

i didn't notice the 2nd tube on the shocker - thanks for pointing that out.


Same thing only different.



They are just a magnetic proximity sensor, and were developed long ago for many other things.

IMO it's not a very good switch for a PB marker, too complex for no real gains.


Actually, they are ideal for eliminating the switch noise that causes markers to bounce. Then again, I guess there are too many people who like that sort of thing.

The real issue with AGDs application of the HES was putting it so close to another magnetic field.

[Russ]

Hump on the back of the trigger frame...


The hump was added in 1923...

...to the ever popular and timeless 1911, thus making it the 1911A1.

The Emag shares the "45 grip frame" with many markers and firearms

:)

[CoolHand]

Same thing only different.




Actually, they are ideal for eliminating the switch noise that causes markers to bounce. Then again, I guess there are too many people who like that sort of thing.

The real issue with AGDs application of the HES was putting it so close to another magnetic field.

That can be done in software quite easily and effectively, and by and large was. . . . . . until someone noticed that if you removed this you could make the marker shoot much faster than you were pulling the trigger. Empires were built upon switch bounce, not because it was in insurmountable flaw in the hardware, but because it was a convenient back door into ramping and FA.

You can make a HES bounce just as badly as an optical trigger, which can be made to bounce just as badly as a simple leaf switch. It's all in how hard you try to cheat. :ninja:

IIRC the HES was selected because it did not contribute at all to the feel of the trigger, therefore making the feel tunable to either extreme quite easily. Why they settled on a HES instead of an Opto Sensor is anybody's guess, but I'd wager that Tom had previous experience with Hall Effect Sensors from his other endeavors in automation and design, and as such went with what was familiar (and possibly more robust durability wise).

[A-Tach-One]

I figured the X/Emags used the HES sensor do to the marker having to function in both mechanical mode and in Electro mode while being easily adjustable. Just a thought. Im sure you could get an E/XMag to work fine in both modes with a micro switch but maybe this was an easier route. :) Dunno really.

[RogueFactor]

The hump was added in 1923...

...to the ever popular and timeless 1911, thus making it the 1911A1.

The Emag shares the "45 grip frame" with many markers and firearms

:)

I dont dispute the use of any firearm design. It must be noted that applying firearm designs to paintball applications has been considered "new and innovating" by the USPTO enough to get patents granted for such things.

The E-mag has 2 different frames, the non-ULE humped frame, and the ULE non-humped 45 style. The E-mag originally came with the hump styled frame. The ULE frame was an upgrade for e-mags, but came largely standard on X-Mags.

[BigEvil]

That can be done in software quite easily and effectively, and by and large was. . . . . . until someone noticed that if you removed this you could make the marker shoot much faster than you were pulling the trigger. Empires were built upon switch bounce, not because it was in insurmountable flaw in the hardware, but because it was a convenient back door into ramping and FA.

You can make a HES bounce just as badly as an optical trigger, which can be made to bounce just as badly as a simple leaf switch. It's all in how hard you try to cheat. :ninja:

IIRC the HES was selected because it did not contribute at all to the feel of the trigger, therefore making the feel tunable to either extreme quite easily. Why they settled on a HES instead of an Opto Sensor is anybody's guess, but I'd wager that Tom had previous experience with Hall Effect Sensors from his other endeavors in automation and design, and as such went with what was familiar (and possibly more robust durability wise).

I was pretty sure that someone somewhere said they went with the HES for its anit-bouncing characteristics, but oh well. (Especially with its added cost and engineering involved). :cheers:

[Russ]

IMHO, the HES is a "perfect" system

no moving parts...which means nothing to wear out, nothing to go out-of-adjustment. very light weight, simple and effective. :cool:

has anyone seen or heard of an AGD HES failure?

[thomas]

It must be noted that applying firearm designs to paintball applications has been considered "new and innovating" by the USPTO enough to get patents granted for such things.

It must also be noted that, based on what we've all seen within the Paintball Industry, the USPTO is not necessarily the best judge of "new and innovative."

[robnix]

The AGD HES trigger must be adjusted. Nothing complicated, but it does require it. It can go out of adjustment, but its not likely.

Until the Invert, the biggest complaint of the HES system was that it didnt give that 'click' feel, and was therefore not as good. How things change.

I prefer the HES system. I like the way the trigger stops when you pull it, it's solid and not a stop-click-stop. I can feel the difference even on very light microswitches.

[RogueFactor]

I prefer the HES system. I like the way the trigger stops when you pull it, it's solid and not a stop-click-stop. I can feel the difference even on very light microswitches.

Most who shoot Emag/Xmags prefer the HES. Its just interesting to note how HES is now the "Revolutionary technology" that Tippman has included with their E-grip. Also note that it has an External Selector Switch to switch between shooting modes...kind of sounds like the EMag selector switch.

If it is "Revolutionary Technology" as the 68caliber.com story says, it just goes to show once again how the Automag was ahead of its time.

Someone once said that they didnt think that Automags are cutting edge...Would these features that others are calling revolutionary make AGD markers cutting edge? :spit_take :rofl:

[robnix]

Most who shoot Emag/Xmags prefer the HES. Its just interesting to note how HES is now the "Revolutionary technology" that Tippman has included with their E-grip. Also note that it has an External Selector Switch to switch between shooting modes...kind of sounds like the EMag selector switch.

If it is "Revolutionary Technology" as the 68caliber.com story says, it just goes to show once again how the Automag was ahead of its time.

Someone once said that they didnt think that Automags are cutting edge...Would these features that others are calling revolutionary make AGD markers cutting edge? :spit_take :rofl:

Next thing you know, someone will announce their 'revolutionary' eyeless anti-chop system. :rolleyes:

[JH_]

Next thing you know, someone will announce their 'revolutionary' eyeless anti-chop system. :rolleyes:
Already happened. Kingman ACS bolts.

[robnix]

Already happened. Kingman ACS bolts.

Which begs the question, would you stick your tongue in it?

[d4m4don3]

Already happened. Kingman ACS bolts.

Didn't the acs bolt come out after the level 10?

[Beemer]

If it is "Revolutionary Technology" as the 68caliber.com story says, it just goes to show once again how the Automag was WAY ahead of its time.

Someone once said that they didnt think that Automags are cutting edge...Would these features that others are calling revolutionary make AGD markers cutting edge? :spit_take :rofl:

Put a little fix in there. :ninja:

Ya but then AGD always liked watching everybody else play Heinz as in Heinz Catchup :spit_take Then again what OTHER setup [valve] has an actual 3000psi rating? And thats underrated. Then again what other valve could take a 4500psi hit in case of a major tank reg failure? Then again AGD was the first with a tank reg safty incase the reg broke off the tank. I digress. I need my meds. :cheers: