Should i post anything about MXS?

[Ninjeff]

for those who read other forums, im sure you've read about whats going on. Should i post for a discussion here? The other forums are making my head hurt with the teenager babble and incoherent bits of info and thread vomit.
This situation seems to be an important issue for the community, as it should be. That being said, i dont want to beat a dead horse. Still, i respect the opinions of AO's members more than i do any other sites.


Wanted Mod approval before starting a conversation about this.

[Tao]

for those who read other forums, im sure you've read about whats going on. Should i post for a discussion here? The other forums are making my head hurt with the teenager babble and incoherent bits of info and thread vomit.
This situation seems to be an important issue for the community, as it should be. That being said, i dont want to beat a dead horse. Still, i respect the opinions of AO's members more than i do any other sites.


Wanted Mod approval before starting a conversation about this.

Well you got my curriosity. What is it about?

[CKY_Alliance]

Ye, MXS? ...I'm confuzzled...

[Ninjeff]

About the legal...erm...actions levied against Pacman of MXS Scenario games LLC out of Texas.
Pretty important stuff for those who pay attention to the "personal" side of the industry. Lots of really bad things accured, and just about NONE of them are family friendly.

That being warned, here are links to the information as i have found so far. For those who attend scenario games in the south east produced by MXS this is info they should all be aware of.

This guy 10-shot wrote the ebst summery ive found yet, its on specops
http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php?showtopic=116312

And there is another parallel discussion on the same forum.

[Ninjeff]

Ye, MXS? ...I'm confuzzled...


MXS is a scenario production company. the put on scenario games in the southeast. BIG ones too. I beleive they were in charge of hosting the Camp Blanding MOUT games (not sure on that)

[Dark Side]

Viper took up the last Blanding game. MXS held the one before it.

[Ninjeff]

ahha. Thanks for the clarification.

[Tao]

I see. So basically someone is trying to smear a person's reputation (along with the company he is associated with) by bringing light on his criminal past.

So what if he did what he did. His crime was not business orientated which would be the only concern to do or not do business with him. He served his time and thats that. The legal system has had over 1000 years (yes 1K dating back to the Roman empire) to perfect not only punishments, but preventative measures. He has been punished and no doubt served probationary time and sanctions and treatment to prevent him reoffending.

I would be weary when meeting him, but he has paid for his crimes and as long as he has not continued to be a criminal he deserves a second chance. Besides there is the fact that refusing to do business with this company just because of HIS past hurts many innocents such as his wife.

[Pneumagger]

Wait, so quick recap (to see if I read correctly)...

a) Guy is charged and convicted of 3 sexual crimes.
b) Guy gets out and is a major part of a scenario paintball producer (MXS).
c) Someone whines about his past and he resigns, with his wife still in charge of everything (he's presumably very much in control behind the senes).

And the problem is? :confused:

[Jackel411]

Huh... Interesting read.

Not sure what to make of it all but I do belive MXS was around before 2000 which wouldnt make sense...

Dont hold me to that info in my ripe old age of 24 my memory isnt what it used to be.

[Ninjeff]

Hmm. Interesting.

I, for one, find it appalling, and would choose never to play a MXS scenario game.

I beleive these links are copies of the actual documents


http://www.box.net/shared/f38uziqcb4

Page 4 is what discusted me.

anyhow, i would find it to be an important bit of info considering how many minors play paintball. Not to say, or imply, anything.
Still, the more i read about it the more im amazed people are capable of some things.

I guess the logical part of me see's the argument "he paid his time...." etc. But really, i find it insanely disturbing that someone capable of such things is running anything, at all, related to the sport i love. Actually, the heck with that, i cant beleive someone like this only served 8 years of a sentence.

[warpig13]

Down here its been know for awhile....man I loved MXS games with a passion.....I mis T. Rev!

[Ninjeff]

I see. So basically someone is trying to smear a person's reputation (along with the company he is associated with) by bringing light on his criminal past.

So what if he did what he did. His crime was not business orientated which would be the only concern to do or not do business with him. He served his time and thats that. The legal system has had over 1000 years (yes 1K dating back to the Roman empire) to perfect not only punishments, but preventative measures. He has been punished and no doubt served probationary time and sanctions and treatment to prevent him reoffending.

I would be weary when meeting him, but he has paid for his crimes and as long as he has not continued to be a criminal he deserves a second chance. Besides there is the fact that refusing to do business with this company just because of HIS past hurts many innocents such as his wife.


Actually, what brought the whole thing to my attention was his disreputable buisness dealings with Viper Productions and some other, very buisness related things.

Posted by TB-thunderstruck on specopspaintball. TB apparently had some shady buisness dealing with the accused also:

The first is by Joe 'Jammer' Arcurio. It involves the fact that he bought 15% of MXS, when it was MXS Inc. The previous owner of the 15% had never seen a return on his investement, however due to the money that MXS was making, he felt he could facilitate change. He did, they folded MXS Inc, sold or gave the assets of the company to a new firm called MXS, LLC and defrauded Joe of his interests in the company. He has sued and it is still pending trial. They have drawn it out as long as they can with depositions and 4 different attorneys on their behalf.

The second is Patrick McKinnon suing Viper and Viper Paintball. Now in 1996 Patrick owned a field called BSG in Houston. Viper introduced him to scenario paintball at Wayne's events and Viper started Viper Paintball with Wayne Dollacks blessing. Patrick was a part owner by investing some radios that his dad had given him into the company. So at each event, he got 50% of the till as Field Owner and and then 33% of the net of what was left. So when Pacman sold the field at the next Viper event he got banned from the field because he threatened to hurt the new FO. He then tried promplty told Viper he couldnt do games at BSG since he was an owner. With the money situation and such, Viper asked Pacman to sell his share of Viper Paintball. Pacman did so and signed agreements that basically said that he and his got to play Viper games for free for life. In 2001 Viper had a house fire that destroyed his records. Patrick knew this, in fact we had a charity game for Viper to help him out. However it appears that after Viper announced he was getting Blanding and Pacman could not stop Blanding from kicking Viper to the curb, he chose to sue him for never buying him out and dared Viper to produce the contract or receipt that he had paid him off.

[trevorjk]

I mis T. Rev!


im right here :p

[warpig13]

im right here :p

A man not even his mother could miss.
:cheers:

[Glickman]

I see. So basically someone is trying to smear a person's reputation (along with the company he is associated with) by bringing light on his criminal past.

So what if he did what he did. His crime was not business orientated which would be the only concern to do or not do business with him. He served his time and thats that. The legal system has had over 1000 years (yes 1K dating back to the Roman empire) to perfect not only punishments, but preventative measures. He has been punished and no doubt served probationary time and sanctions and treatment to prevent him reoffending.

I would be weary when meeting him, but he has paid for his crimes and as long as he has not continued to be a criminal he deserves a second chance. Besides there is the fact that refusing to do business with this company just because of HIS past hurts many innocents such as his wife.

the thing is, whether conscous or not, every little thing we do, business-related or not, affects how we are seen and trusted as businessmen. Think of all the times you've been told that a weak handshake can kill an interview. Its only natural for people to believe how people manage their lives to how they manage their business.

i am not taking any side whatsoever, im just pointing that out.


the only thing ill have to disagree with is the whole 1000 years to perfect the legal system.

"67 percent of inmates released from state prisons... committed at least one serious new crime within three years."

again, i am not saying anything in regards to this specific case, just that the legal system is FAR from effective, let alone perfect.

[Tao]

Actually, what brought the whole thing to my attention was his disreputable buisness dealings with Viper Productions and some other, very buisness related things.

Posted by TB-thunderstruck on specopspaintball. TB apparently had some shady buisness dealing with the accused also:

The first is by Joe 'Jammer' Arcurio. It involves the fact that he bought 15% of MXS, when it was MXS Inc. The previous owner of the 15% had never seen a return on his investement, however due to the money that MXS was making, he felt he could facilitate change. He did, they folded MXS Inc, sold or gave the assets of the company to a new firm called MXS, LLC and defrauded Joe of his interests in the company. He has sued and it is still pending trial. They have drawn it out as long as they can with depositions and 4 different attorneys on their behalf.

The second is Patrick McKinnon suing Viper and Viper Paintball. Now in 1996 Patrick owned a field called BSG in Houston. Viper introduced him to scenario paintball at Wayne's events and Viper started Viper Paintball with Wayne Dollacks blessing. Patrick was a part owner by investing some radios that his dad had given him into the company. So at each event, he got 50% of the till as Field Owner and and then 33% of the net of what was left. So when Pacman sold the field at the next Viper event he got banned from the field because he threatened to hurt the new FO. He then tried promplty told Viper he couldnt do games at BSG since he was an owner. With the money situation and such, Viper asked Pacman to sell his share of Viper Paintball. Pacman did so and signed agreements that basically said that he and his got to play Viper games for free for life. In 2001 Viper had a house fire that destroyed his records. Patrick knew this, in fact we had a charity game for Viper to help him out. However it appears that after Viper announced he was getting Blanding and Pacman could not stop Blanding from kicking Viper to the curb, he chose to sue him for never buying him out and dared Viper to produce the contract or receipt that he had paid him off.


Well then that changes things. Too bad for the other guy in the second statement. In order for things to be inforcable by law it must be in writing since the contract between the two was an interest in land. The first thing I would have done is made sure that Pacman was taken off of the land title at the land title office once the contract was signed.

However this guy isn't apart of MXS anymore, so I wouldn't boycot this company.

[Glickman]

However this guy isn't apart of MXS anymore, so I wouldn't boycot this company.

heres the thing. Many other agree, that since his wife is now "running" it, he will be really controlling it from behind the curtain, and reaping in the wealth as he did before.

personally, I've never had a problem, or heard of a problem with MXS before this though. They are a HUGE part of scenario games though, so i guess its something to think about.

[Tao]

the thing is, whether conscous or not, every little thing we do, business-related or not, affects how we are seen and trusted as businessmen. Think of all the times you've been told that a weak handshake can kill an interview. Its only natural for people to believe how people manage their lives to how they manage their business.

i am not taking any side whatsoever, im just pointing that out.


the only thing ill have to disagree with is the whole 1000 years to perfect the legal system.

"67 percent of inmates released from state prisons... committed at least one serious new crime within three years."

again, i am not saying anything in regards to this specific case, just that the legal system is FAR from effective, let alone perfect.

Ah yes I forgot this was the American justice system. I don't mean to bash, but the US system is crazy. Encarceration with little effort at rehabilitation doesn't do anything. The US really could look at adopting either Canadian or European systems. At the very least it should save the country some money by not needing to deal with so many repeat offenders.

Anyway that was a bit off topic. My first statement is moot anyway since someone just said he has been upto no good since then.

[Tao]

heres the thing. Many other agree, that since his wife is now "running" it, he will be really controlling it from behind the curtain, and reaping in the wealth as he did before.

personally, I've never had a problem, or heard of a problem with MXS before this though. They are a HUGE part of scenario games though, so i guess its something to think about.

Yeah I realize he will still have influence. However his wife married him and is still married to him and if she does give her power in the company to himto use, I would give her a chance as long as she isn't a criminal or doing anything shifty. I admit it is a moot point what I would do since my dealings with MXS will probably be minimal anyway.

[wetwrks]

Um, i don't know about wherever he is but typically anyone who is found guilty of something like this has to register as a sex offender and as a result cannot be involved with a business dealing with minors.

[Ninjeff]

And i know its been reported that he never registered at alot of the scenario game locations they put on.

[AirAssault]

Of course being charged and convicted does not make a person 100% guilty. Not seeing any of the defense info or seeing court transcripts, we have no way of knowing. Also the man has done his time. No second chances in the USA anymore?

[MANN]

Of course being charged and convicted does not make a person 100% guilty. Not seeing any of the defense info or seeing court transcripts, we have no way of knowing. Also the man has done his time. No second chances in the USA anymore?

No second chances to someone who sexualy abuses someone. They are a sick (bleep), and deserve to die.

[Chrishew09]

No second chances to someone who sexualy abuses someone. They are a sick (bleep), and deserve to die.
Only God can judge, in God's eyes everyone is given many chances. :rolleyes:

[punkncat]

Its a shame that the paintball world is turning to this. I imagine some individual got their feelings hurt and decided to air some dirty laundry. I have to agree with pneumagger, in that I really don't see this changing anything....

Fellow made a mistake and apparently has served time for it. I have attended several MXS games and will continue to do so in spite of this "cowardly act" pointing out his stained past.
It really doesn't have any impact at all on his ability to put on one hell of a scenario game.

One thing that sucks about the net. Public information is easy to find and even easier to anon. post....Good luck to MXS.

[AirAssault]

No second chances to someone who sexualy abuses someone. They are a sick (bleep), and deserve to die.

Again, we DO NOT know the entire story. Being convicted of a crime does not mean you are 100% guilty of that crime. We don't know the entire story here. Im not defending him, simply saying how about we don't hang the guy without knowing ALL the facts. Hey, don't go play in the games if you don't want but find out ALL the facts.

[punkncat]

For what used to be known as a friendly online community, there sure are a good deal of AO'ers who are just ready to jump on and throw someone on the cross w/o knowing all the facts.

As I have been seeing posted around here lately...

"There are two sides to every story"

[mostpeople]

Of course being charged and convicted does not make a person 100% guilty. Not seeing any of the defense info or seeing court transcripts, we have no way of knowing. Also the man has done his time. No second chances in the USA anymore?


there is no defense info

he plead guilty

[mostpeople]

there is no defense info

he plead guilty



Heres the thing, hes a known criminal, he plead guilty afterall. And there is of course no question that it is him. So the question is, do you think that because he broke the law and served time for rape, that he should not be allowed to have a life after jail?

On the one hand, no he shouldnt hes an evil bastard and deserves to go back to jail for what he did because once a criminal always a criminal.

The flip side hes payed his debt maybe that changed him, and we shouldnt worry about it.

Im in the middle currently on this one...

BUT, I've heard other things that MXS has done which are illegal which are totally unrelated to this (other than the whole him being a criminal part). I will NOT talk about it because I dont know enough about it.

[Mike Smith]

Only God can judge, in God's eyes everyone is given many chances. :rolleyes:

Wrong.

We make multiple "judgments" each and every day. We decide to spend our money at the Shell station or the Valero station. We make a judgment on which movie gets our money and which one doesn't. We choose which store we shop at. We make those types of decisions each and every day.

I chose {a while back} not to give MXS or MXS, LLC any more of my money. Ever.

[AirAssault]

there is no defense info

he plead guilty


But there was an appeal, 2 I think. So there has to be.

[Thordic]

And people wonder why criminals have such a high repeat offender percentage.

Maybe its because after they serve their time everyone still treats them like criminals?

[craltal]

And people wonder why criminals have such a high repeat offender percentage.

Maybe its because after they serve their time everyone still treats them like criminals?


Amen.

Whether or not we find what he did deplorable, he went through our justice system and has tried to put his life back together. The slant I'm getting from this is that because he is a "sex offender" he needs to be hiding destitute somewhere. alienated from the rest of society?

We also don't know the circumstances behind this. I am in no way justifying hos criminal behavior, and I'm also not saying that our justice system will cure all offenders, but they guy seems to have turned his life around and as long as he keeps on the straight and narrow, I don't see any problem with him trying to make a living and supporting his family.

[blake20]

I'm not really opposed to anyone straightening out their life and going back to work. 2 things though. 1) I do wonder about having someone in charge of an event that caters to minors (both boys and girls) or even being in contact with children. I do not know if he is at the games at all but if my son or daughter were there that would cause me concern, especially if they were not with me. I am an old guy and I probably look at things like this with a different veiw as I would have when I was younger or many of you younger members. Just think if it was your child or your sister, or brother, would you take that chance with them??? Not me... 2) As for the money gained from all of us at the games, whose to say that the money that we are spending is not used to keep this man out of jail or even out of the court system. Unfortunatly money runs our criminal justice system examples OJ, MJ. Once again I'm not saying that the guy is a bad guy, but I do know that he has commited a type of crime that out system does not rehabilitate for. One thing MXS not for me, or my children.

[Chrishew09]

Wrong.

We make multiple "judgments" each and every day. We decide to spend our money at the Shell station or the Valero station. We make a judgment on which movie gets our money and which one doesn't. We choose which store we shop at. We make those types of decisions each and every day.

I chose {a while back} not to give MXS or MXS, LLC any more of my money. Ever.
What you are describing is choices, what what mentioned earlier was a judgment passed on another person.

[craltal]

He spent 8 years in prison. it's not like he tried to buy his way out.

The only thing I can see wrong is the registering issue, but there is no nation wide standard practice so

Also having read the threads over at spec ops and the response from "mother" it's quite a fishy set of circumstances that this information hits the web just as a bunch of people are suing MXS because they were banned from some scenario game.

[RvB Caboose]

Well since this thread has grown I might as well weigh in with my thoughts.

First off, I've never been to a scenario game and have never heard of MXS. Sending anonymous letters and posting such personal information is just plain wrong. Especially when the crime took place back in 1985. I know criminal records are in the public domain, but come on, whatever happened to common courtesy?

Patrick McKinnon has done nothing that would lead us to believe that he has committed any crimes since his release from prison. If anything, his creation of MXS and its nation-wide success shows that he has an interest in contributing to society, rather than being a criminal. Now I understand that there are bad apples- quite a few in the U.S., who keep going in and out of prison, but McKinnon's record since his release is pristine.

I also disagree that he should not be allowed to work with MXS because children attend their scenario games. Since when is rape synonymous with pedophilia? While they are not mutually exclusive we should see things the way they are, not they way they could be.

My sympathies go out to MXS for the loss of their founder.

[wimag]

all very easy to defend him on the internet for those who do... but how many would feel comfortable if he moved next door to your family ? Would you welcome him with no reservation or suspicion ?

He plead guilty, the reactions he will receive for the rest of his life will pretty much be based on that. Pretty simple.

[craltal]

all very easy to defend him on the internet for those who do... but how many would feel comfortable if he moved next door to your family ? Would you welcome him with no reservation or suspicion ?

He plead guilty, the reactions he will receive for the rest of his life will pretty much be based on that. Pretty simple.

That's not the point. He's not moving in next to me, he's trying to run a business. There's a HUGE difference between the two.

He pled guilty and served his time. He's kept his nose clean since he got out. Nowhere in that document does it state that there was a minor involved so all of the "child" worries are just people jumping to conclusions.

I'm not defending his original actions, but I'm trying to stem the lynching he's receiving over something that's in his past that only seems to be being brought up to try to smear him due to a non-related civil lawsuit.

[cyrus-the-virus]

all very easy to defend him on the internet for those who do... but how many would feel comfortable if he moved next door to your family ? Would you welcome him with no reservation or suspicion ?

He plead guilty, the reactions he will receive for the rest of his life will pretty much be based on that. Pretty simple.

he did his time and he's been clean since he got out. I wouldn't care if he moved in next door. Actually I think it would be pretty cool because I could maybe actually go to a big scenario.

Now if he had been in and out of prison for the same offences THEN I would have a problem with it.

BTW How did the topic of pedophilia come up? just because he has a sexually based offence against an adult does not automaticly mean he's going to start going after children....

[TheTramp]

Since when is rape synonymous with pedophilia?

I agree. I don't understand why are people insinuating that he would have an unhealthy/illegal interest in children?

[mostpeople]

he did his time and he's been clean since he got out. I wouldn't care if he moved in next door. Actually I think it would be pretty cool because I could maybe actually go to a big scenario.

Now if he had been in and out of prison for the same offences THEN I would have a problem with it.

BTW How did the topic of pedophilia come up? just because he has a sexually based offence against an adult does not automaticly mean he's going to start going after children....


I wouldnt trust him around my children

[craltal]

I wouldnt trust him around my children

*sigh* best to let this die before it turns into a political/ civil rights argument

[Mike Smith]

What you are describing is choices, what what mentioned earlier was a judgment passed on another person.

What I described was judgments on who received my money. I would not use my property {money} to help sustain a criminal, especially someone guilty of rape.

[maniacmechanic]

I read the whole thread & most of the thread on spec ops . Just answer me this how well do you know all the people on this forum or any other forum your regularly on ? How well do you know your neighbor 3 doors down ? How well do you know the people you work with ?
But people make judgements about other's actions based not on firsthand evidence but rumor and inuenido . I just don't get it . If you don't know the man and EXACTLY what ,when & where let it go . Personally Its none of my bussiness ,I have enough trouble running my own life let alone trying to run someone else's

[craltal]

I read the whole thread & most of the thread on spec ops . Just answer me this how well do you know all the people on this forum or any other forum your regularly on ? How well do you know your neighbor 3 doors down ? How well do you know the people you work with ?
But people make judgements about other's actions based not on firsthand evidence but rumor and inuenido . I just don't get it . If you don't know the man and EXACTLY what ,when & where let it go . Personally Its none of my bussiness ,I have enough trouble running my own life let alone trying to run someone else's

:clap:

[Mike Smith]

I read the whole thread & most of the thread on spec ops . Just answer me this how well do you know all the people on this forum or any other forum your regularly on ? How well do you know your neighbor 3 doors down ? How well do you know the people you work with ?
But people make judgements about other's actions based not on firsthand evidence but rumor and inuenido . I just don't get it . If you don't know the man and EXACTLY what ,when & where let it go . Personally Its none of my bussiness ,I have enough trouble running my own life let alone trying to run someone else's

What rumor and innuendo are you referring to?

Everything posted is fact. Read the court reports. Read the appeals court judgment. How much first hand evidence do you need before you accept the fact that Patrick is a rapist?

I do not understand you people that are defending him. You can see the evidence for yourself at http://www.worldoftb.com/ . It is all posted with links to the legal stuff.

[craltal]

What rumor and innuendo are you referring to?

Everything posted is fact. Read the court reports. Read the appeals court judgment. How much first hand evidence do you need before you accept the fact that Patrick is a rapist?

I do not understand you people that are defending him. You can see the evidence for yourself at http://www.worldoftb.com/ . It is all posted with links to the legal stuff.

I've read the documents. I don't condone what he did, but I don't understand why you feel the need to completely vilify him for something from his past that our judicial system punished him for and is satisfied. That fact that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with MXS. Show me something that says he committed a crime since his incarceration. Show me something that says he violated his parole or probation. Show me something that says he ANYTHING criminal after his sentence was served and I'll stop. Nobody likes what he did, but our judicial system believes he paid his debt to society. If you don't like it, move somewhere else.

As I said before, I don't want to turn this into a political or civil rights discussion. I truly believe that the recent spread of these documents is a ploy by some unscrupulous people who are trying to muddy the waters around their own unrelated legal case.

[Ninjeff]

i dunno. Im all for NOT burning someone at the stake for past transgressions. I support second chances.

That being said, ive read the court document, and i have one word for you

"drum stick"


I cant believe he only served 8 years. And i think it DOES have an impact on the current court cases. I think this prior says a lot about a persons mental capacity.

[MANN]

Only God can judge, in God's eyes everyone is given many chances. :rolleyes:

There should be no second chance as a free person to someone who did what he did (If he did it. Again he did plead guilty). What happens between him and God is his problem, and I believe we should help arrange the meeting. :cheers:

Any buisness who would associate themself with this kind of person probally carries some of the same charastics as he does. Who would work with/better yet marry someone who did what he did?

[maniacmechanic]

What rumor and innuendo are you referring to?

Everything posted is fact. Read the court reports. Read the appeals court judgment. How much first hand evidence do you need before you accept the fact that Patrick is a rapist?

I do not understand you people that are defending him. You can see the evidence for yourself at http://www.worldoftb.com/ . It is all posted with links to the legal stuff.

this is my last post on this thread . I don't care about MXS or PATRICK I defended NO ONE .
Answer this how well do you know anyone , other than family & lifelong friends . Fact is most of us nowdays don't know our neighbors unless we still live in the house we grew up in . Threads like this about the sport that I love just show the negative of it . Time to get back to my own bussiness

[warpig13]

How many of you guys have talked to Pacman before. An honest conversation at a dinner battle during his events?


He did wrong stuff, he DID HIS TIME, and thats that. Sure it looks bad on his record, but there is nothing else to be done. Face it, we all make mistakes and when we do we all want a 2nd chance, he is a nce guy and until you really know all the facts, no one can pass judgement. According to popular belief, some crazy Israeli who roamed the desert said "He without sin may cast the first stone."


So cast away people, becasue someone else is going to cast one right to your nuts and you wont like it at all.

[warpig13]

We make multiple "judgments" each and every day. We decide to spend our money at the Shell station or the Valero station. We make a judgment on which movie gets our money and which one doesn't. We choose which store we shop at. We make those types of decisions each and every day.


You dont pick the Shell over Valero becuase a Indian man works there. That would be a "judgement" call. You would be passing the judgment that since he is from around the middle east, he is no good.

There is a fine difference between convience and ignorance.

[MANN]

How many of you guys have talked to Pacman before. An honest conversation at a dinner battle during his events?


He did wrong stuff, he DID HIS TIME, and thats that. Sure it looks bad on his record, but there is nothing else to be done. Face it, we all make mistakes and when we do we all want a 2nd chance, he is a nce guy and until you really know all the facts, no one can pass judgement. According to popular belief, some crazy Israeli who roamed the desert said "He without sin may cast the first stone."


So cast away people, becasue someone else is going to cast one right to your nuts and you wont like it at all.

Would you feel the same way if that was your daughter/wife/sister/mother? I highly doubt that you would blow it off as "he deserves a second chance" if it was. Just a thought.

[wetwrks]

I also disagree that he should not be allowed to work with MXS because children attend their scenario games. Since when is rape synonymous with pedophilia? While they are not mutually exclusive we should see things the way they are, not they way they could be.

There are a number of laws that I disagree with but that dosn't change or negate them. The sex offender registration doesn't typically pay attention to what kind of offense the person committed. It states that if an individual is registred as a sex offender they cannot live within 2500 feet of a school, park, preschool, etc. A lot of them also state that the individual cannot work in a job that would deal with minors. This includes as a teacher, at an ammusement park, and in some states even a job that would take the offender into someones home (such as a repair man).

[Ninjeff]

How many of you guys have talked to Pacman before. An honest conversation at a dinner battle during his events?


He did wrong stuff, he DID HIS TIME, and thats that. Sure it looks bad on his record, but there is nothing else to be done. Face it, we all make mistakes and when we do we all want a 2nd chance, he is a nce guy and until you really know all the facts, no one can pass judgement. According to popular belief, some crazy Israeli who roamed the desert said "He without sin may cast the first stone."


So cast away people, becasue someone else is going to cast one right to your nuts and you wont like it at all.


Oh im casting stones. Read the report i linked to earlier.
Im sorry, but the "he who hath not sinned...." argument gets thrown right out the window when someone starts doing things described in the case. Maybe it would be different if i had violated someone with a drumstick, but i havent, i wont, and i wouldnt dare associate with someone who would. Nor spend any money at their place of buisness.

[ShadowFire]

I decided long ago to not give Pacman any of my money. My first experience with him was in 2003 at the SPPLAT game at EMR. Nothing really stood out but he just seemed arrogant and acted like a jerk. First impression probably jaded me to him in the future.

Second time I saw him he was a player at a game. He got into a heated verbal argument with a player on the other team. He had other members of Blitzkrieg as well as the scenario director yelling at him to stop and he wouldn't. The other player walked off the field and Pat continued to yell and scream and cuss long after the guy couldn't even hear him.

Third time was again as a player. I was dead in the hospital, after he came running through shooting everyone in the hospital (which he did apologize for) he got into a firefight with live players. One guy shot him 3 times with a pump from his hip to his armpit. He was carrying special paint that would cause Pat to lose his roleplaying abilities. After he finally called himself out he found one ball that was not special and bullied the ref into letting him keep his abilities. So he either kept playing on after he was hit with the non-special paint or just saw an opportunity and threw his weight around.

NONE of that compares with what happened in 1985. You can say he paid his dues, young and dumb, etc. I was young once, I'm guessing most of you were too. I did some stupid stuff, you may or may not have. But it takes a really unique individual to be able to do what he did. For the sake of the forums I will not post details but if you are interested follow this link. linky (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeID=10810)

Now, after reading the details of what he did to that woman, and if you think you can handle it, close your eyes and allow the events to play out in your head. Even if only half of what happened is true, if your stomach doesn't turn then I feel sorry for you. I'm man enough to say that I cried when thinking about what could possibly be going through her mind.

Yes he did his time and was released (even with probation he served less than half his sentence). But does that really change who he is inside? He may not ever do it again for fear of more time in prison but only God can speak for his thoughts and wishes. I know (hearsay of course) that he has been physically violent with other people since then and sexually inappropriate with a few women but stopped short of his previous behavior. Again, I have not personally witnessed these acts so take that as you may, but in 2 of the instances it came directly from the other party involved.

In this situation I choose to vote with my wallet. I have never had a problem with Diane, but I refuse to support Pacman. Even though he is no longer a part of the company, which I don't believe for a second, he still benefits from the company as it is the sole income for that household.

[ShadowFire]

Down here its been know for awhile....man I loved MXS games with a passion.....I mis T. Rev!


T-Rev (Texas Revolution) is a Viper production.

MXS does the Texas Throwdown but that's only been around about 4 years I think.

[craltal]

Oh im casting stones. Read the report i linked to earlier.
Im sorry, but the "he who hath not sinned...." argument gets thrown right out the window when someone starts doing things described in the case. Maybe it would be different if i had violated someone with a drumstick, but i havent, i wont, and i wouldnt dare associate with someone who would. Nor spend any money at their place of buisness.


No, the argument is still valid. You're talking about selectively applying the law, which is a violation of civil rights. It's the same coin that requires a teacher who sleeps with her 17 year old student to register as a sex offender. There is no grey here. He did his time and as long as he follows the requirements the court placed on him there's nothing that can or should be done.

As long as you don't live within the restricted areas a serial rapist could move in right next door to you and you can't do anything legally about it.

[ShadowFire]

That being said, ive read the court document, and i have one word for you

"drum stick"


I cant believe he only served 8 years. And i think it DOES have an impact on the current court cases. I think this prior says a lot about a persons mental capacity.

I think what says more about him is the fact that he actually petitioned the court to have those drum sticks returned to him along with the sheets and blanket that were on the bed when the cops came. Trophys?

[Ninjeff]

No, the argument is still valid. You're talking about selectively applying the law, which is a violation of civil rights. It's the same coin that requires a teacher who sleeps with her 17 year old student to register as a sex offender. There is no grey here. He did his time and as long as he follows the requirements the court placed on him there's nothing that can or should be done.

As long as you don't live within the restricted areas a serial rapist could move in right next door to you and you can't do anything legally about it.


And there should be grey area. THERE SHOULD BE. A teacher who sleeps with her 17 year old student, with his consent, or hers, i suppose, should be held WAY differently than someone who forces themselves, violently, upon another using tools of restraint and abuse.
Im not saying that according to law the former hasnt done something illegal, i AM stating that the said teacher should be held in a much different regard than this guy. Its the same (loosley) as the difference between manslaughter, murder 1 and 2 and so on.

[craltal]

And there should be grey area. THERE SHOULD BE. A teacher who sleeps with her 17 year old student, with his consent, or hers, i suppose, should be held WAY differently than someone who forces themselves, violently, upon another using tools of restraint and abuse.
Im not saying that according to law the former hasnt done something illegal, i AM stating that the said teacher should be held in a much different regard than this guy. Its the same (loosley) as the difference between manslaughter, murder 1 and 2 and so on.

That's where sentencing comes in, but not the sex offender registry. As long as both follow the law after their sentence and comply with the registry, they both should be able to try to live as normal a life as possible.

You seem to be getting riled up because you find the details of the crime heinous. You need to see beyond that at the bigger picture. He hasn't done anything illegal in the 22 years since this crime (albeit from the descriptions posted he may act less than gentlemanly, but if that was a crime most of us would be guilty from time to time.)

[Ninjeff]

No, i see what your saying.

really i do. I suppose it just comes down to the "severity" of the act. Thats what gets me.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

He hasn't done anything that he has been caught at or that others will prosecute for. That does not make him innocent by any means.

However, I am sure that some of you are very liberal when it comes to forgiveness and that's ok. However as much as you want to forgive others do not. If you can have your opinion then they can have theirs.

And for the record there is more to paying a debt then sitting in a 5x7 room with a bed and toilet, unless you want to consider time out a way to pay debts.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I am surprised I am about to say this, but...he has already payed his debt to society. Any such actions by outside sources (i.e. concerned citizen) is duly wrong.

However, that is also part of the punishment- living with a tarnished name forever regardless prison completion.

[warpig13]

T-Rev (Texas Revolution) is a Viper production.

MXS does the Texas Throwdown but that's only been around about 4 years I think.

thats what i meant, my apologises.

And as for MANN, my cousin has been raped.
And even though I am completely against God, I have made my share of mistakes.
I have no real ill will outside the fact that i know he is doing his time.

[SR_matt]

ok for all of those who have said they will never play mxs and think he is a terrible terrible person. ok ya what he did in teh past was bad but literally until 5 mins ago when i read the stuff i had nothing against pacman. he is a very nice guy, doesnt seem shady in the least (and i can pick out shady people pretty quickly). he has kept out of trouble since these charges and frankly i do not hold anything against him. the man made bad choices and bad actions in his past but he hasnt again so why does everyone feel after years and years that he is still a horrible person.

if you want to start digging into peoples pasts why dont we just make people wear scarlet letters again. you do a crime, you get punished, it shows up on background checks. you do not need to publish everyones bad actions, in a town near where i live they have a police report section listing peoples names and their charges every week and frankly all that accomplishes in public humiliation which is not a good way to punish and doesnt help the person at all.

for some "player" to go that far to put info into the hands of the sponsors they probably have an interest in hurting MXS's business

i have no problem with pacman and until i see different actions from him from what i have seen i will not change my outlook, im going to keep this in the back of my head but it will not harm my views yet.


"let he who is with out sin cast the first stone"
-matt

[Ninjeff]

Very forgiving group we have here on AO.

I could think of worse things to be. :cheers:

[nmib]

I love the individuals here saying "he was young, made a mistake and has paid his dues". You honestly have no idea how a criminal mind works and why the crime is committed. Then to toss the mind of a sex offender in the mix makes it even more confusing. There is a reason why we have them register as sex offenders and why this information is made public. They are highly acceptable to repeat offenses. And seriously you think the prision social programs helped him in 1985? *scoff*

If you are a RSO you can not work with kids in any means, this includes paintball. Not only has he broken the law, he has been breaking it. Who knows what other state laws have been broken, like in California if your a RSO and in the state for more than three days you must contact the local police dept. Im glad to see that important information on a rapist is coming to light, its a shame its 20 years later.

On a side note, Ive met Pacman in Texas. I thought of him as an USDA Grade A prick.

[craltal]

I love the individuals here saying "he was young, made a mistake and has paid his dues". You honestly have no idea how a criminal mind works and why the crime is committed. Then to toss the mind of a sex offender in the mix makes it even more confusing. There is a reason why we have them register as sex offenders and why this information is made public. They are highly acceptable to repeat offenses. And seriously you think the prision social programs helped him in 1985? *scoff*

If you are a RSO you can not work with kids in any means, this includes paintball. Not only has he broken the law, he has been breaking it. Who knows what other state laws have been broken, like in California if your a RSO and in the state for more than three days you must contact the local police dept. Im glad to see that important information on a rapist is coming to light, its a shame its 20 years later.

On a side note, Ive met Pacman in Texas. I thought of him as an USDA Grade A prick.


And I suppose you are an expert psychiatrist who has analyzed this individual and can give us an unbiased clinical opinion on his rehabilitation? Has he done anything close to repeating?

Like everything else, the RSO laws are a hodge podge and vary from state to state not to mention have only been a recent addition to the state law books across the country, in fact they are still being changed.

[nmib]

And I suppose you are an expert psychiatrist who has analyzed this individual and can give us an unbiased clinical opinion on his rehabilitation?

I am not. But being apart of the law enforcement community and working currently on a criminal justice degree I tend to think I might know a tidbit more than the normal user here when it comes to criminals. What do you do for a living? Public Defendant?

The fact of the matter is he is a convicted rapist of a minor. A RSO and has ran a company that caters to minors. There is nothing wrong with policing our own, saying your not welcome. Its a personal opinion that 8 years was to short and he should have fulfilled the complete 20. Think of the possible psychological damage that could have been done to the victim. For the rest of her/his life.

Its clear he made the decision and now he has to live with the consequences of being a rapist. These are the reprocustions of his action for the rest of his life. If you dont like the time dont do the crime.

[ShadowFire]

Ok, lets not get this too out of hand or it will lose credibility.

I do not know the age of the victim but since the papers state she was employed as a stripper I would have to assume she was of legal age in Oklahoma. So to call him a rapist is accurate, child molester not.

As for the registration, that is a legal flaw in the Texas judicial system (as far as I'm concerned). Texas law states that if you were convicted of a crime after 1970 then you must register. OK, his was 1985 what's the problem. Well, there's more that basically says if you finished your sentence (incarceration and probation) between Sept 1 1995 and Aug 31 1997 then you must register for 10 years, if you finish on or after Sept 1 1997 you must register for life. He was released from probation after only 9 months. So April of 1995 is when he finished his sentence.

So he has not broken Texas law by not registering. This was explained to me by someone in the Harris County sex offender task force. Whether or not he has broken other state laws I can not be sure of.

[craltal]

I am not. But being apart of the law enforcement community and working currently on a criminal justice degree I tend to think I might know a tidbit more than the normal user here when it comes to criminals. What do you do for a living? Public Defendant?

The fact of the matter is he is a convicted rapist of a minor. A RSO and has ran a company that caters to minors. There is nothing wrong with policing our own, saying your not welcome. Its a personal opinion that 8 years was to short and he should have fulfilled the complete 20. Think of the possible psychological damage that could have been done to the victim. For the rest of her/his life.

Its clear he made the decision and now he has to live with the consequences of being a rapist. These are the reprocustions of his action for the rest of his life. If you dont like the time dont do the crime.


Maybe I'd listen to you if you actually read the complaint. There is NOWHERE that states the victim was a minor. None of the 4 counts mention it. As for your background, it's obviously irrevelant since you jump to conclusions and make decisions based on partial information or worse yet, hearsay.

Unless you are in the judicial branch, your opinion on whether the punishment fit the crime is also just opinion and holds no weight when you don't even know the facts or bother to find them.

[Mike Smith]

The sycophants that are defending Patrick's rape amaze me.

Men do not rape women.

Sick perverts that impersonate men rape women. There are over 3 billion women on this planet. If you cannot convince one to go to bed with you and think you must resort to raping a woman, then do our society a favor. Kill yourself.

[Chrishew09]

How many of you guys have talked to Pacman before. An honest conversation at a dinner battle during his events?


He did wrong stuff, he DID HIS TIME, and thats that. Sure it looks bad on his record, but there is nothing else to be done. Face it, we all make mistakes and when we do we all want a 2nd chance, he is a nce guy and until you really know all the facts, no one can pass judgement. According to popular belief, some crazy Israeli who roamed the desert said "He without sin may cast the first stone."


So cast away people, becasue someone else is going to cast one right to your nuts and you wont like it at all.
Amen

[SR_matt]

The sycophants that are defending Patrick's rape amaze me.

Men do not rape women.

Sick perverts that impersonate men rape women. There are over 3 billion women on this planet. If you cannot convince one to go to bed with you and think you must resort to raping a woman, then do our society a favor. Kill yourself.

we are not defending his actions we are defending him as a person we know and a person we respect. i did not read through re reports and do not really want to, not necessarily of because who they are about but because i really am not in the mood to read a graphic account of sexual abuses. i do not know if the account talks about any substances he could have been on but he could have been which could have impaired his judgment (not saying that as an excuse but it could be a reason)

its easy to hate a man for what he might done if you do not know him but when you are part of a community with him and know him as a person it is not black and white for us to judge.

-matt

[Thordic]

But Tony, she was a ho-ah.

[Pneumagger]

I'll take "The Rapists" for $200.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

You really should come to the worldoftb.com and read the stuff that's there and not just the crap that I post, but the links that I put to it. That's the reality, the rest by anyone including me is just spin one way or the other. But to say that you aren't going to read it and you vocalizing your point is what gets on my nerves. You read it all (not just the paperwork regarding a convicted violent felon) but the rest of it and you say you know what, I don't care I am still going to support him and I am still going to give him another chance, then you will not hear me complain. I support everyone's right to a educated opinion, even if they don't agree with me. I also know that paintball players are some of the most fickle people out there, everyone wants to blame the industry for the problems, but the industry mirrors the players.

So don't make an arse of yourself but coming on here with your forgive and forget sermons when you haven't read anything and you don't know the man the way that I do. And if you don't know who I am, just ask, I will be glad to tell you since you certainly won't read up on me either.

[warpig13]

I'll take "The Rapists" for $200.

The day is mine!

[Lawrence TB Wright]

The day is mine!

Dude you are like 16! Never mind, puts things in a whole new perspective. :p

[craltal]

You really should come to the worldoftb.com and read the stuff that's there and not just the crap that I post, but the links that I put to it. That's the reality, the rest by anyone including me is just spin one way or the other. But to say that you aren't going to read it and you vocalizing your point is what gets on my nerves. You read it all (not just the paperwork regarding a convicted violent felon) but the rest of it and you say you know what, I don't care I am still going to support him and I am still going to give him another chance, then you will not hear me complain. I support everyone's right to a educated opinion, even if they don't agree with me. I also know that paintball players are some of the most fickle people out there, everyone wants to blame the industry for the problems, but the industry mirrors the players.

So don't make an arse of yourself but coming on here with your forgive and forget sermons when you haven't read anything and you don't know the man the way that I do. And if you don't know who I am, just ask, I will be glad to tell you since you certainly won't read up on me either.


I, for one, have read it. i am in no way defending his crime, but feel that airing it at this time was an unscrupulous move by someone. I also believe that he has a right to a second chance, which he appears to be doing. Personality issues aside, show me where he has done something illegal since '85. That was 22 years ago.

The paintball industry does try to cater to the players, and it seems that the target demographic is the "agg" kid or obnoxious professional wannabe. What we are experiencing is just the natural growing pains of the indusrty moving from the woods onto the airball field.

[blake20]

I don't know if you guys misunderstood what I had said about children. I read that it was an of age adult that he raped. I was not saying that he molested a child and through all the posts I don't think that I saw that anyone said that he did. All I was trying to get through is say I'm at a game with my daughter 16 years old and I get shot out and my daughter is in with this guy. I would not feel comfortable. I know the people that We play with very well. We watch each others children as if they were our own. Our kids range from age 9- 23. So when I say children, I meant my own, but that girl was someones daughter. I also agree with the point about not being rehabilitated. If you read all the Studies out there you will find out that this type of persons brain does not work like everyone elses. Psych 101. I don't know the guy, never met him and don't plan to.

[craltal]

I don't know if you guys misunderstood what I had said about children. I read that it was an of age adult that he raped. I was not saying that he molested a child and through all the posts I don't think that I saw that anyone said that he did. All I was trying to get through is say I'm at a game with my daughter 16 years old and I get shot out and my daughter is in with this guy. I would not feel comfortable. I know the people that We play with very well. We watch each others children as if they were our own. Our kids range from age 9- 23. So when I say children, I meant my own, but that girl was someones daughter. I also agree with the point about not being rehabilitated. If you read all the Studies out there you will find out that this type of persons brain does not work like everyone elses. Psych 101. I don't know the guy, never met him and don't plan to.


At a big scenario game, you have absolutely no idea who's around you or your kids no matter where it is. Imagine the possibilities at something like a D-Day when there are potentially thousands of people you have never met before. Personally, I'd be less concerned about the event promoter due to his high profile than I would some random person. I'm trying to scare anyone, just pointing out the holes in the theory.

I agree that the mental processes involved in doing something like that are not normal. Again, I'm not defending his actions, nor do I know anything about the situation that wasn't in the official records but it was the 80's and those of us who remember the 80's knows the excesses that were used. Nobody can say if he's been rehabilitated or not without examining him. Study result just show the results from a small group of people. There are always anomalies.

[blake20]

I know exactly what you are saying and I agree to an extent. My problems are with this type of person benifiting from the money from the game and potentially being a player. I'm not trying to say that everyone playing are good guys. We all know that they are not. But just that knowing that person is playing paintball with my kids or my friends kids really scares the H*** out of me. All I'm saying is that I'm not wanting to take that chance. Once again I'm talking from the father side of the fence!!

[david ciarcia]

how many young people look up to the promotor as a hero ? how easy it would b= to take adavantage of a young lady or guy . will it get reported ? 27 percent of rapists commit another rape ---- a vast majority of rape goes unreported due to embrassment --- imagaine a young lady gets raped at a game will she tell her parents due to the embrasssment or the fear that she will lose paintball as something to do ---

a the first shather game he was treated like a movie star big attraction for the young people we have around paintball

i believe in second chances but i also belive that some crimes will limit your chance in the future --- rape is one of those -- as many states dont allow you to work around young people after this --- i think we all need to take note

how do you even know if the person who presented all this , isnt another vistim of his -- the lawsuits that you all talk about have been going on for a while and suddenly this?


my personal feeling , is mxs gets no money of mine ever -- its the best statement i can make
i dont want to take a team to his event and explain to the parents of kids that where entrusted to be -- the leader of the event is a rapist

[craltal]

how many young people look up to the promotor as a hero ? how easy it would b= to take adavantage of a young lady or guy . will it get reported ? 27 percent of rapists commit another rape ---- a vast majority of rape goes unreported due to embrassment --- imagaine a young lady gets raped at a game will she tell her parents due to the embrasssment or the fear that she will lose paintball as something to do ---

a the first shather game he was treated like a movie star big attraction for the young people we have around paintball

i believe in second chances but i also belive that some crimes will limit your chance in the future --- rape is one of those -- as many states dont allow you to work around young people after this --- i think we all need to take note

how do you even know if the person who presented all this , isnt another vistim of his -- the lawsuits that you all talk about have been going on for a while and suddenly this?


my personal feeling , is mxs gets no money of mine ever -- its the best statement i can make
i dont want to take a team to his event and explain to the parents of kids that where entrusted to be -- the leader of the event is a rapist


by your numbers, there's only a 27% chance he'd do anything like that again.

I highly doubt the person who spread this was a victim of an assault. Why go to this trouble when filing a police report would put him back in jail? This smacks of a vendetta or attempt to smear his name for some nefarious reason completely unrelated.

[Lee]

the crime was disgusting. should have done at least the 20 years.

but, posting this up on various forums is unscrupulous at best. it is glaringly obvious that this is being done for someones personal gain.

if the woman that was raped ever saw these threads, wouldn't she feel like a victim all over again?

[Ninjeff]

Viper Games had, (has?) no part in any of this.

The only reason i posted it is because it seems to be an important issue. A very large scenario promoter is involved, and it seems to be an important thing, for me at least, to know this guy did this stuff.

[oldsoldier]

there is no defense info

he plead guilty


Are you kidding me? How much do you know about the legal system? Pleading guilty can prevent him from civil lawsuits, a longer sentence; there are several reasons why people plead guilty. And, on THAT topic....he did his time. Served it all. You all are passing judgement on someone most of you have never met. Do you know all the details? What if the individual who waspressing charges originally had an ulterior motive? What if she threatened to blackmail him, take money, or something such as that? You all pass judgment on someone like you are sitting all high & mighty. Look back on your OWN lives; have you lived sin-free? I'll bet not. I'll even one up that; I'll bet that, at least a good half of you have done something that you could be convicted as a felon for. Would you like someone bringing that up, 25 years from now? He isnt proud o what he'd done, he served his time, and moved on. Has he done it again? Nope, but everyone here is quick to hang him on something in his distant past.
Oh, look at Duke University. They were al "convicted" before any trial.Jumping to conclusions, based on the testimony of one person. You all make me sick. No wonder I hardly ever visit this site any more.

[SR_matt]

i will also put out this little idea since we are trying to bash each-other with psych crap, if some one is of the type to be taken advantage of do you really think they are going to have the mind to go out, find history on this guy and email it to 25 separate places as a retaliation? IMHO i doubt that


i can list a lot of other people that i would feel a lot less comfortable around at a game that i have hung out with that could get away with a lot more than pacman.

again think of all the things you as an individual have done or let happen and just put up with it, it might not have been a rape but i bet almost every guy here could have been charged with "sexual harassment" more than once in their lives.

locally there was a field that was a competitor of a field i used to work at. the lady that was now running the field i used to work at had spread FALSE rumors of sexual abuse about him and got the field shut down. any one that would do this the way it was done was not to help others but to hurt MXS and pacman in a business sense.

-matt

[Badmovies.org]

Not quite enough background information for this particular case. However, if the state law is that a sex offender (of any kind) cannot be involved in a business or activity that would bring them into contact with children, then any complaints are a moot point.

Also, I'd like to say that I never have subscribed to "He did his time, his slate is clean." Wrong, society sticks them in jail as a way to deter them (and others who might think about doing it) from doing it again, to hopefully give them enough time to change, and also to remove them from society at large - so they cannot do it again.

If you committed a crime, you get to live with it. Don't like it that 20 years later people still label you as a rapist? Tough.

Nor do I ever give any credibility to "pleading guilty, even though he wasn't, was the smart choice."

[SR_matt]

yes but at the same time usually if some one is going to be a repeat offender they are not going to commit one crime every 20 years

-matt

[Ninjeff]

Are you kidding me? How much do you know about the legal system? Pleading guilty can prevent him from civil lawsuits, a longer sentence; there are several reasons why people plead guilty. And, on THAT topic....he did his time. Served it all. You all are passing judgement on someone most of you have never met. Do you know all the details? What if the individual who waspressing charges originally had an ulterior motive? What if she threatened to blackmail him, take money, or something such as that? You all pass judgment on someone like you are sitting all high & mighty. Look back on your OWN lives; have you lived sin-free? I'll bet not. I'll even one up that; I'll bet that, at least a good half of you have done something that you could be convicted as a felon for. Would you like someone bringing that up, 25 years from now? He isnt proud o what he'd done, he served his time, and moved on. Has he done it again? Nope, but everyone here is quick to hang him on something in his distant past.
Oh, look at Duke University. They were al "convicted" before any trial.Jumping to conclusions, based on the testimony of one person. You all make me sick. No wonder I hardly ever visit this site any more.


totally see what your saying. Except, dont you think your going just a"bit" over board? Im not trying to be confrontational, truely, but the last line really bugs me.

He bound and gagged a woman, forced himself on her MULTIPLE times, violated every place he could, physically assaulted her through torture and then proceeded to violate the individual with what was reported to be a "drumstick". As in the wooden tool you use to play drums with.
And your calling US sick?

Again, my friend, im not trying to be confrontational, or rile you up.....but the logic seems, well, backwards to me.
Surely, i have sinned a great deal in my life, i am no angel. I have skeletons. None of which would land a felony on me, and none of which could even come remotely close to what he did. Ive been raised to treat ladies like ladies. Who knows, maybe its different other places.

Did he serve his time? Sure he did. But the mind of such an individual that would not just force himself upon someone, but would do so through physical torture, gags, and restraints and the use of one musical tool is not the kind of mind that i would trust to be fully rehabilitated. You have to be one messed up individual to do those things. thats my feeling.
And, concurrently, my feeling is i want him to have NO part EVER in this sport. I dont want him to be able to run one of the larger scenario promotional companies in the south. Paintball is a buisness liek anything else. I wonder how Microsoft, Ford, GM, Heck even Burger Kings CEO would fare if this were to come to light on them. Or the promoters for the Super Bowl, or the promoters for the World Series? What about Budd Orr, Dave Youngblood or any other major buisness player in paintball? what if this came to light on them? what then?

[craltal]

Not quite enough background information for this particular case. However, if the state law is that a sex offender (of any kind) cannot be involved in a business or activity that would bring them into contact with children, then any complaints are a moot point.

Also, I'd like to say that I never have subscribed to "He did his time, his slate is clean." Wrong, society sticks them in jail as a way to deter them (and others who might think about doing it) from doing it again, to hopefully give them enough time to change, and also to remove them from society at large - so they cannot do it again.

If you committed a crime, you get to live with it. Don't like it that 20 years later people still label you as a rapist? Tough.

Nor do I ever give any credibility to "pleading guilty, even though he wasn't, was the smart choice."

Actually the laws usually state that anyone one the registered sex offenders list can't. due to the age of the crime and how everything played out (as well as how the laws are written), it sounds like there's a chance he doesn't qualify to be on the list so he wouldn't be held to the limitations.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Amazing that people who don't know him half as well as I do defend him as if he is being accused rather then having been convicted.

How's this for you, there are no less then 5 women he has mis-treated in some way (2 of which he drove out of the sport, another who cost him a field and 2 others who will remain nameless), mis-treated = sexual assault. However none of them will come forward because of the tripe you guys have posted defending him. What he did was indefensible, yet you make excuses for him.

That's ok, there are people who hate this country and some of you defending Pacman probably don't understand why? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds since this isn't about him or what he did, you have made it about who released it. Why does that matter?

If he hadn't done the crime it wouldn't matter. If he had admitted to it and sought counseling and truly tried to make things better when he got out of jail then thhings might be different. His Best Friend for over 7 years got on the internet to distance himself from a crime that he didn't know that he found heinous. His other best friend and former team-mate has done the same. You say the man has not comitted any other crimes, I tell you that you are wrong. No one will say or do anything because he either threatens to sue them or he knows that people like you will defend MXS or Pacman to the end just because you have been conditioned to do so. I pity you all and I pray that no one ever touches your life the way that he has touched mine.

[Mike Smith]

i will also put out this little idea since we are trying to bash each-other with psych crap, if some one is of the type to be taken advantage of do you really think they are going to have the mind to go out, find history on this guy and email it to 25 separate places as a retaliation? IMHO i doubt that


i can list a lot of other people that i would feel a lot less comfortable around at a game that i have hung out with that could get away with a lot more than pacman.

again think of all the things you as an individual have done or let happen and just put up with it, it might not have been a rape but i bet almost every guy here could have been charged with "sexual harassment" more than once in their lives.

locally there was a field that was a competitor of a field i used to work at. the lady that was now running the field i used to work at had spread FALSE rumors of sexual abuse about him and got the field shut down. any one that would do this the way it was done was not to help others but to hurt MXS and pacman in a business sense.

-matt

OK Matt.

You believe that pacman can intimidate vendors into not showing for other promoters events, he can spread rumors and lies about other promoters, and he can sign exclusive agreements with fields, intentionally keeping other promoters out, BUT if someone was hurt by mxs and retaliates against that predatory business tactic, then they are not helping "the public" but are unfairly hurting mxs.

Also, equating sexual harassment with rape is ignorant. "You got a HOT A__" is not anywhere near "I'm gonna tie you down and rape you".

Are you related to pacman?

[SR_matt]

you say that the business practices of pacman are different or worse than other prodders, im sure there are some out there that do not do that but the others ones besides MXS i have dealt with do it blatantly where MXS at least seems to do it a little more low key.

im not saying harassment is as bad as rape but ti is a step towards it.

Lawrence what the hell does people hating this country have to do with this, are you trying to use that as an example for something because if you are you came across sounding like an extremist "patriot" using "terrorism" to prove a point here that is totally unrelated, if your using it as an example please explain it better because it makes no sense.

no i am not related to him but i have friends who have known him for years and that is how i was introduced to him. i have never gotten even a slight feeling of him being sketchy and i normally pick up on that. i have never seen him be rude to anyone (kinda *****y when people broke safety rules but thats it).

al the people on my team and friend teams are not going to stop playing MXS because frankly this isnt really our business and frankly i think this was done to hurt his business not to protect anyone.

-matt

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Well that is your choice, however you may some of the only ones there. You can have your opinion that this was only done to hurt his business, but the fact is that if someone had this sort of thing in their past, why would they engage in the behaviour that he has over the years.

Name another major producer who does it? Name one that you know personally that has done it.... can you? I doubt that you can name much sine you are only 17 years old, I am sure that even you have been to higest level of scenario paintball with your inside contacts with the biggest names in the industry right?

Don't speak in speculation or through out that they all do it so it must be ok. Never mind, you think that he is ok now because he spent a few years in a cell. You do realize that all good behaciour means is that he didn't get into any trouble while he was there, right? Not that he became a better person? What has HE done for scenario paintball? He put on games and made money.

Blanding had scenario games before him.
So did other places, there were rules before MXS.
There were Charity events before MXS.

Viper approached Wayne and asked would he have a problem with Viper doing games out west. Did MXS? No, they tried to steal players and sponsors. They tried to hurt Wayne reputation and used hate and dissension to build MXS. I was there, inside sitting at their dinner table, were you? Do not pretend to speak that from which you do not know.

What did he bring to the picture but hate and confusion? When it was Wayne and Viper they worked together, and they still do or did you not come to the Wayne Dollack/Viper Paintoberfest game?

MXS is the sole reason for the Texas Scenario Community to have been destroyed. Think about this, Texas used to be the largest scenario scene after FL, now there are maybe 30 teams in Texas of scenario players. 30 for the largest state in the country? Where did they all go? Most will tell you that they were friends with MXS and Viper and were going to wait it out, however then they found other things to do and haven't come back. Everyone in Texas is devisive, the MXS Groupies scream you should come to our side it's better, the Viper supporters do the same and very few (like less then 70 players) play both. So it's why a game in Texas that used to be over 1000 can barely pull together 300 and thats with people coming from outside the state. And that was before this 'bomb' dropped.

You make it sound like MXS was the top company brfore this, they haven't been for awhile. They have lost field after field before any of these became public. Sherwood Forest in IN, EMR in PA, Wildfire in GA, CPX in IL, the list goes on and on of these 400 to 600 player games that MXS has lost due to their attitudes and business practices. Obviously you were not there when Patrick physically assaulted a player at his event not as a player as the promoter. Don't even get me started on his conduct as a player, were you on his team? No I didn't think so.

So while oldosldier may be screaming how we make him sick, you 5% can feel that way. the other 95% are sick not only at the crime that happened, how MXS has chosen to address it but also how you condone it by saying it doesn't matter.

And on the other thing, while there is nothing wrong with being a super-patriot, it was meant to say that some people who are saying that it is ok that Packman paid his dues are some of the first ones who go overboard on the patritotism of others. It was really a superfluous point.

[SR_matt]

everything i have seen pacman do here in VA have been great, Only 2 big names realyl come to VA regularly and MXS has changed VA from a state with a few teams to a huge scenario group now. you have a lot of bad personal stories about him, i can turn around to a good friend who has jsut as many positive ones. until i see him act differantly than he has acted at the games ive been at its going to be hard for me to justify having anything against the man.

and then also comes the point that by not supporting MXS you do not support pacman but you also do not suport mother, what has she done?
-matt

[Lawrence TB Wright]

She has been an active participant in the company called MXS, what you do not understand either do to age or lack on interaction is that they are two faces of the same person. It is a carefully built image of the 'bad cop' and the 'good cop'. If you feel sorry for Mother then you will be more forgiving of Pacman. For someone 'who just drives the RV' as he used to tout himself, he had more of a hand in MXS then you realize. He wrote the checks, he signed the checks, he handled the business end, he made the deals.

He made VA? Did you forget Black Cat? Spiro was the first promoter in VA, yet Pat and Diane came into VA and have started a promoter war there with Black Cat by going to same dates. Yes Black Cat has started fighting back the only way you can (you can only take the high ground so long before you lose business) but it doesn't stop the fact that MXS came into VA and split the players and this is a proven business ploy (I know I designed it with them).

But you can choose to do what you will with your parent's money I guess, however hopefully the more educated players will start to look at this and realize one simple fact. Who benefits from a divided player base? The promoter who doesn't engage in that behaviour to begin with or the one who uses the controversy of how everyone is against me to their advantage.

If you read my articles on my site you will realize that the psychology of it all has been 'beaten' into you. No matter what anyone says, it isn't MXS's fault and it people attacking them. No matter what the proof is, it isn't MXS's fault and it is people attacking them. And that's ok, you are being a good social experiement by making your choices based on what you have been conditioned to do. However as someone told me the other day, they have travelled the country to promote their field that MXS does games at, and he has had heard tons of stories from common everyday players in different parts of the country that say that they would love to come play their field but they will not give MXS their money. And that has nothing to do with me, this information or how it was released but has everything to do with how they treat their customers before this happened and since.

[SR_matt]

first off BC has proven to be a total jerk to most of the teams i play with, some of the biggest names wil not play at his games because of it. BC comes across a lot more shady than any one at mxs does to me. every BC game i went to there were issues: bad paint, story line was messed with by spyro substantially during the game, scores were substantially altered to make it "come down to the final battle" even when one side was doing much much better just so "every one is a winner"

i do understand how the company works im not stupid

third the "parents money" comment is out of line, just because i am 17 does not mean "mommy and daddy" pay or my playing, they have loaned me money to go play but i pay it back, i worked at a field for almost 2 years to support my hobby and have payed for everything myself. you are acting like because i am still "just a teenager" i dont know what is going on and i cannot think for my self.

how the hell am i being a god social experiment, i have not been conditioned to say its not MXS's fault i am saying this is a lot of crap that people are attacking him this long after and attacking his company. obviously a lot of you have issues with pacman and what ever that is your issue but plenty of other people have issues with the other producers for what ever other reasons, the reasons might not make sense to others but there is no need to basically tell them they are just being proving the point that you are right because they do not agree with you.

-matt

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Oh? Then tell me how Spiro 'manipulating' a game as you say compares to raping a woman in a heinous way? How does one compare to the other?

Have you been in the trailer when said manipulating happend? You sound like one of those players who thinks that there is no way anyone could get on over on me, so that person must have cheated.

The comment to your age is just that, you are the same age as my son and I would think that he would have done just about as much investigation into all of this as you probably have. You have been told what happened by others, people you look up to. You have been 'conditioned' with stories about magic trees and such, since I am sure you do not know Spiro.

Want a little history lesson? MXS invited Spiro out the first year that they had games to teach players across the country how to play games, I know he taught me. MXS acutally helped 'found' Black Cat because they knew Spiro wanted to produce games and Bob McGuire from the APL wanted to host games so he introduced them and Black Cat was formed. So LOL, MXS created their own competition, the only problem is when Spiro 'bit' the hand that made him, as so many others including myself have been accused of. When they found out that they couldn't control him, then well let's say the gloves came off. Spiro to this day will not go into a state that someone else is in (even if invited) because he didn't want it to happen to him. He refuses to come to Texas, even though field after field have tried to get him in the hopes that fresh blood might wake up the scenario public here. And he refuses unless MXS and Viper give their blessing. However, as I have been told by Viper he wouldn't have an issue, MXS on the other hand, not so much. Yet they have gone into several states where Spiro has been and tried to pull customers to him.

So how can you dislike or judge a man you do not know? Seems like it is the same thing you are accusing other of doing, the only difference, Patrick is a convicted violent sex offender and Spiro is not.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

And the field you work at in VA, could it be one that is the host of the MXS events there?

Just wondering. Why you may ask?

Because friends do not let friends play games run by rapist's and their families!

[Mike Smith]

you say that the business practices of pacman are different or worse than other prodders, im sure there are some out there that do not do that but the others ones besides MXS i have dealt with do it blatantly where MXS at least seems to do it a little more low key.

I've played between 50 ands 70 scenario games. I've seen multiple promoters.
MXS is the only one I will not spend money to attend.



im not saying harassment is as bad as rape but ti is a step towards it.

And stealing your friend's pen is a step towards jacking cars...
Dude, wake up.



no i am not related to him but i have friends who have known him for years and that is how i was introduced to him. i have never gotten even a slight feeling of him being sketchy and i normally pick up on that. i have never seen him be rude to anyone (kinda *****y when people broke safety rules but thats it).

I've known him and played his games and played against him for years.
He intentionally shot my son when my son was a clearly marked ref.
That's his character, his ethics, his honor.



al the people on my team and friend teams are not going to stop playing MXS because frankly this isnt really our business and frankly i think this was done to hurt his business not to protect anyone.

-matt

Well, if playing an ethical, honorable game is not your "thing"... OK.
I suppose there are other people like you.
Enjoy.

[ShadowFire]

What I find hard to believe is that the people defending him keep saying that who ever sent out this information did so just to hurt his business. Do you REALLY think that someone knew about this and just sat on it waiting for the perfect time to release it to the world?

I refuse to resort to thinking "poor mistreated Pacman" and moaning because some person found certified court documents that prove it was him (his own Mother sent a letter to the court). Instead, I would like to extend my sincere thanks to whoever sent these documents for alerting us to a dangerous FELON that has access to many different people and travels all over the country in an RV. I understand why you felt you had to send it anonymously and I hope that the people here and on other boards that have resorted to "shooting the messenger" have not discouraged you or made you think you did anything wrong.

[SR_matt]

lawrence, when a friend is the XO for a game and has kept records through the game of the missions completed and turned in and knows exactly how many points have been gained and then spyro comes out with a totally different number that is way off, yes i know he changed numbers.

frankly i do not care what your son would or wouldnt do, you do not know me, you do not know how i work or what i do. so just because im the same age as your son means pretty much jack.

how do i dislike a person i supposedly do not know? well when i see my mentor (who will never attack some one unless he sees some one he cares about threatened) almost get in a physical altercation with some one because of the way they have treated him and his players. the way the man comes across to me, and the quality of the product he puts out is how i dislike him.

the field i worked at, no it was to small, the lady started the rumors for nothing more than financial gain of her own because her field wad going down at the time.


mike you are out of line saying i play a dishonest and unethical game, sir i pride my self on playing always by the rules and pride my team on that




i am not thinking "poor mister pacman" i am just choosing to put this event aside and let my experiences with pacman be the deciding factor of what i think of him.


-matt

[ShadowFire]

mike you are out of line saying i play a dishonest and unethical game, sir i pride my self on playing always by the rules and pride my team on that

I don't believe he was referring to you or your team. You said you would keep playing MXS games and then Mike made his reply. Seems like he was saying MXS games aren't honest or ethical. Mike, if I'm putting words in your mouth feel free to correct me.


i am not thinking "poor mister pacman" i am just choosing to put this event aside and let my experiences with pacman be the deciding factor of what i think of him.

You must not have had enough experiences with him.

Granted, none of my experiences have been with him as a promoter. They have all been as a player and they are some of the worst examples of honor and sportsmanship I have ever seen. See my previous post for specific examples but I have seen him throw fits on and off the field, screaming and cussing at his own teammates and other players, cheating etc. You keep defending him, I have obviously seen more with my own eyes than the people you listen to have.

[Mike Smith]

l
mike you are out of line saying i play a dishonest and unethical game, sir i pride my self on playing always by the rules and pride my team on that
-matt

No I'm not.

I know Patrick to be a dishonest, unethical person. You are defending him.
It was a simple 2+2 assumption.

If you defend people such as Pacman, expect to be put into the same category.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Well Matt,

Your posts show me all I need to know. Have fun at the MXS game, and jsut make sure you drop any soap around Packman, he might have a flashback.

[craltal]

Well Matt,

Your posts show me all I need to know. Have fun at the MXS game, and jsut make sure you drop any soap around Packman, he might have a flashback.

I've tried so hard not to let the level of idiocy get to me, but the exchange I read from today was the last straw. Everyone has the right to their opinions, but personal attacks becasue soemone has a differing opinion than you do was the last straw. Nobody has the right to insult another for their opinion. If someone has formed an informed opinion, ie, actually had personal interaction then their opinion is valid even though it may be different than yours. The circumstances they witnessed may be completely different than yours, but doesn't make them any less valid.

You know, Lawrence TB Wright, your "I know more than you do" attitude is really geting old. While you're entitled to your opinion you really need to stop trying to shove it down our throats. I don't know anyone of you personally, but if you ask me Matt is acting considerably more mature than you are.

You jump to conclusions and insult others who don't share your opinion. Sounds like the "bullying" you accuse Pacman of. Calling someone you don't know dishonest and unethical because he holds a different opinion than you is moronic.

You claim there are "no less then 5 women he has mis-treated in some way (2 of which he drove out of the sport, another who cost him a field and 2 others who will remain nameless), mis-treated = sexual assault" yet where is the proof? Are there signed witness statements or affidavits saying these alleged incidents happened? Going around stating things like this could be construed as libel in case you don't know.

And as for you, Mike Smith, nobody is defending what Pacman did 22 years ago. Whether or not 8 years was enough of a sentence for the crime is a moot point since he did what the judicial system required of him. Just because I point out to you that you're being narrow minded doesn't mean I'm dishonest and unethical. In fact I'd say it shows that I can view a situation and evaluate it unemotionally. I'm not spouting nonsense like "stealing a pen is the gateway to jacking a car." I actually form my own opinions about others from evidence I gather myself. I don't insult you for holding the opinion that you have even though I do not agree with it.

An lastly, Matt, :cheers: I hope to meet you at a game someday. I'd be honored to play along someone who not only strives to be self-sufficient in terms of his play but seems to be smart enough to form his own opinions and have the heart to express it and defend it.

[Mike Smith]

And as for you, Mike Smith, nobody is defending what Pacman did 22 years ago. Whether or not 8 years was enough of a sentence for the crime is a moot point since he did what the judicial system required of him. Just because I point out to you that you're being narrow minded doesn't mean I'm dishonest and unethical. In fact I'd say it shows that I can view a situation and evaluate it unemotionally. I'm not spouting nonsense like "stealing a pen is the gateway to jacking a car." I actually form my own opinions about others from evidence I gather myself. I don't insult you for holding the opinion that you have even though I do not agree with it.


I have read several posts that seem to be defending or excusing pacman's rape conviction.

I know Pacman to be an unethical, dishonest person by direct observation and by eyewitness accounts from people I personally know. As you mature, you will learn that "like defends like", and it would be a fair assumption that someone defending a dishonest and unethical person is probably dishonest and unethical, either now or in the past. The fact that he raped and sodomized a woman "seals the deal" on pacman.


And my stealing a pen analogy was in direct response to Matt's asinine sexual harassment analogy.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

I've tried so hard not to let the level of idiocy get to me, but the exchange I read from today was the last straw. Everyone has the right to their opinions, but personal attacks becasue soemone has a differing opinion than you do was the last straw. Nobody has the right to insult another for their opinion. If someone has formed an informed opinion, ie, actually had personal interaction then their opinion is valid even though it may be different than yours. The circumstances they witnessed may be completely different than yours, but doesn't make them any less valid.

Sure thing, everyone has a right to their opinion. And if they make and educated opinion knowing all the facts then whether I agree with it or not, I will support thier right to do so. However for people such as your self and Matt to get on here and try to shoot holes in something you know nothing about, someone you have never been with on a personal level, and more is what brought about me even posting here. I will not sit by as you try to convince others that there is no need to read more, no need to gather the information and that they should just take your viewpoint and ignore this because of the way it was sent or how long ago it was.


You know, Lawrence TB Wright, your "I know more than you do" attitude is really geting old. While you're entitled to your opinion you really need to stop trying to shove it down our throats. I don't know anyone of you personally, but if you ask me Matt is acting considerably more mature than you are.

I am sure that you do, but then again you also think Pacman is an ok guy who should still be in this sport and people still giving him money. So pardon me, if your opinion of me really doesn't concern me or make me lose less sleep at night. For the first like 20 posts I didn't even comment, it was only after you and Matt and others started trying to twist the facts that I felt the need to provide the other side just as hard as you did, you don't like me being so harsh for one side, then maybe you should look at how harsh some of you have been on the other. As a matter of fact, I haven't shoved anything down your throat, that would be what Pacman did.


You jump to conclusions and insult others who don't share your opinion. Sounds like the "bullying" you accuse Pacman of. Calling someone you don't know dishonest and unethical because he holds a different opinion than you is moronic.

What conclusions did I jump to? Because I asked questions about him? Because I made assumptions based on his age and lack of experience? Once again, asking questions to quantify the value of someone's opinion is the hallmark of someone who is trying to make an educated decision. I mean just because Micheal Moorse says the US governement flew planes into the WTC, doesn't mean I have to believe that. Sorr, I look at who says what and why they say it, and I am for from moronic. Where did I insult him? You took insult because you are wanting to defend something or someone you believe it, I think that most would agree as verbose as I can be, I have no problem in being able to insult someone, if I so chose. Besides who did I call dishonest and unethical? Matt called Spiro Mamaligas, a well known game producer who has done nothing like this that, sure you aren't confusing posts?


You claim there are "no less then 5 women he has mis-treated in some way (2 of which he drove out of the sport, another who cost him a field and 2 others who will remain nameless), mis-treated = sexual assault" yet where is the proof? Are there signed witness statements or affidavits saying these alleged incidents happened? Going around stating things like this could be construed as libel in case you don't know.

I love internet lawyers who through terms around that they do not know anything about. There are certain things that make it not libel, Truth and Privalege. I simply chose not to release the women who have been assaulted, that does not mean that I do not know their names and if 'sued' then I would be forced to give them as my sources to prove 'Truth' which cannot be used for libel since the standard is Truth. I am not making heresay, everyone of these wome made these statements to me, or I was there when they told Diane, or I was there when it happened. So yes I am quite sure I know what libel and slander are, and this is a fine line that I walk, however I thank you for your concern but let's worry about you and not me, k?


And as for you, Mike Smith, nobody is defending what Pacman did 22 years ago. Whether or not 8 years was enough of a sentence for the crime is a moot point since he did what the judicial system required of him. Just because I point out to you that you're being narrow minded doesn't mean I'm dishonest and unethical. In fact I'd say it shows that I can view a situation and evaluate it unemotionally. I'm not spouting nonsense like "stealing a pen is the gateway to jacking a car." I actually form my own opinions about others from evidence I gather myself. I don't insult you for holding the opinion that you have even though I do not agree with it.

So what is this 'evidence' that you have gathered that has made you form your, it's ok for Pacman to be here and all you need to shut up and leave him alone? Please share, maybe you can convince the rest of us that you are right.


An lastly, Matt, :cheers: I hope to meet you at a game someday. I'd be honored to play along someone who not only strives to be self-sufficient in terms of his play but seems to be smart enough to form his own opinions and have the heart to express it and defend it.

His own opinions? I think I proved that where Black Cat is concerned he hasn't formed his own opinions, he took the word of his good friends who was the XO. And then I go back and read his posts and you think that? No, he agrees with your side and that is why you are so admiring of him. But hey, you guys get together and go play an MXS game. I am sure that there are some fields out there who care nothing but the fact that he hasn't hurt them personally and that they want to make money. Regardless of how their customers feel, and that is what is wrong with this sport today, it is a reflection of the consumers.

[phizz]

I see. So basically someone is trying to smear a person's reputation (along with the company he is associated with) by bringing light on his criminal past.

So what if he did what he did. His crime was not business orientated which would be the only concern to do or not do business with him. He served his time and thats that. The legal system has had over 1000 years (yes 1K dating back to the Roman empire) to perfect not only punishments, but preventative measures. He has been punished and no doubt served probationary time and sanctions and treatment to prevent him reoffending.

I would be weary when meeting him, but he has paid for his crimes and as long as he has not continued to be a criminal he deserves a second chance. Besides there is the fact that refusing to do business with this company just because of HIS past hurts many innocents such as his wife.

I agree.

[SR_matt]

ok so by being at games by black cat, seeing the amount the teams are completing of missions and then seeing the numbers not matching up closely to what ive seen personally, the records my XO friend had kept, or what any other players saw i couldn't possibly have any reason to say that he changed scores. thats real logical. hmm so when i see black cat pull another friend really close and say "i thought u weren't coming back" in a very nasty tone and then be really loud when he says "o it was great seeing you again" ya he couldn't possibly be two-faced at all.

just because i have not worked/traveled/ lived with some one doesnt mean i can't form a reasonable opinion of them, lawrence you just refuse to let anyone have an opinion of some one that is different than yours, its simple as that.

-matt

[Dark Side]

I have read several posts that seem to be defending or excusing pacman's rape conviction.

I know Pacman to be an unethical, dishonest person by direct observation and by eyewitness accounts from people I personally know. As you mature, you will learn that "like defends like", and it would be a fair assumption that someone defending a dishonest and unethical person is probably dishonest and unethical, either now or in the past. The fact that he raped and sodomized a woman "seals the deal" on pacman.


And my stealing a pen analogy was in direct response to Matt's asinine sexual harassment analogy.

I am neither defending nor condoning Pacman's actions!

Mike, TB, have you ever made a mistake? Did you do what was required of you by whomever to make up for it?

Your assumption is assinine in the first place. You are going off on others for defending Pacman because they have seen a different side than you have and you practically call them a criminal.

Like defends like when there is some benefit to be gained. Especailly if that like is criminal in intent.

I'm going to make a bet here. I will put money down that at least 85% of men and women over the age of 18 have sodomized or have had some form of sodomy performed to them. Look it up to see exactly what it is defined as.

TB, Before this, I thought you were a pretty stand up guy. Now by your own admission, you have told us that you were part of the bad business in MXS. You are saying no one should trust MXS because of the way they conduct business. You are just putting your self into that same circle. And lastly TB, if you have information about 4 other women being sexually mistreated, it is YOUR legal obligation to do something about it. Doing nothing is condoning the behavior that Pacman has supposedly exhibited.


Lastly, Matt I hope I get to meet you as well. You sound like a mature 17 year old. :headbang:

[Mike Smith]

I am neither defending nor condoning Pacman's actions!




Based on your post, I don't believe you.

[Dark Side]

Based on your post, I don't believe you.

I suppose I am a criminal then because "we" are the only ones that would defend such a man.


Way to go Captain America.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

I am neither defending nor condoning Pacman's actions!
Mike, TB, have you ever made a mistake? Did you do what was required of you by whomever to make up for it?


Sure I have, but some mistakes you never get to shake. You realize that as a violent convicted felon, he cannot get a job in the banking industry, the real estate industry, he cannot be bonded so there goes construction and janitorial, he could not even get a job as a clown at a company that rented clowns to kid's birthday parties. He can't own a gun, yet he carries and uses a handgun registered to Diane. I didn't make those rules society did, and I didn't commit the crime, Pacman did.


TB, Before this, I thought you were a pretty stand up guy. Now by your own admission, you have told us that you were part of the bad business in MXS. You are saying no one should trust MXS because of the way they conduct business. You are just putting your self into that same circle. And lastly TB, if you have information about 4 other women being sexually mistreated, it is YOUR legal obligation to do something about it. Doing nothing is condoning the behavior that Pacman has supposedly exhibited.

I have never hid the fact that I was in the 'inner circle' of MXS. I still think I am being a stnad up guy, I am trying to atone for my mistakes with MXS by not letting people be taken as I was. And if no one wants to conduct business with me because of my association with MXS from the past, then they have that right.

As far as legal obligation to force a sexual assault victim into the light? No, I am sorry that isn't a legal obligation, maybe a moral one, however the statements of people in this forum as others has led to some of the victims (who have read these statements) to say that they will never come forth because they do not want to be the subject of being called a liar and that THEY are ruining the reputation of a 'good' man, and you people wonder why I am angry about that? And BTW it was 5 women, and there are some others who have told me stories that they blew off sd harmless nothing till this came out, but you guys keep beating the bushes looking for something to try and prove that Pacman isn't a bad guy and deserving to stay in this sport. Even he didn't feel that as he turned tail and hid, just like he always does. They've circled the wagons hoping that this will all go away, you may be content to do that, however I am not.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

I suppose I am a criminal then because "we" are the only ones that would defend such a man.


Way to go Captain America.

No not a criminal, just misguided and misinformed. Still waiting on you to defend him going after a promoter for 'fixing' a game and comparing him to a convicted rapist?

NO?

Do I need to tell you the stories of MXS game fixing? Would you believe it? Probably not, yet your incredulity that I do not reciprocate is funny.

[ShadowFire]

I'm going to make a bet here. I will put money down that at least 85% of men and women over the age of 18 have sodomized or have had some form of sodomy performed to them. Look it up to see exactly what it is defined as.



You are probably right. Luckily, here in Texas it is not illegal unless it is engaged between same-sex partners (but that's an entirely different discussion).

The charge wasn't sodomy, it was FORCIBLE sodomy, read the files, he used intimidation and physical torture to force her to do the deed. Big difference.

[craltal]

Mike, age does not equate to maturity. Your "like defends like" argument sounds like a cop out to me personally. A mature individual doesn't jump to conclusions. (I am not questioning your opinions regarding Pacman, as you say you have first hand experience regarding his attitude towards other players.)

Lawrence, where to begin...

What facts did I twist? Nothing I said was contrary to the facts presented. Reread my posts before you start to say things like that. In fact you are guilty of jumping to conclusions with limited relevant information and then trying to ram your ideas down the throats of others who either don't share your opinion or don't trust your "information" due to the means you present it. My posts in this thread have been trying to point out that we are talking about two mutually exclusive things when we discuss the rape conviction and MXS's business dealings.

You do walk a very fine line with your "alleged" sexual assaults. You claim "Privilege" yet feel free to discuss it openly. By discussing it, you risk violating the privilege and open yourself and them up to legal action. Period, end of story.

You say you have had personal dealings with Pacman and that in those dealings, you were less than pleased with his behavior. I don't argue your opinion of him based on that, but it doesn't mean that someone else who didn't experience any of the bad things that you are claiming can't have a good or indifferent opinion about the guy. My opinion has always been indifferent in terms of Pacman. I have never met him, nor had any dealings with him or MXS. The only point I have ever tried to make in regards to the situation is that the rape charge is irrelevant to the operations of MXS.

Your vehement arguments do nothing to help your case in my mind. By resorting to personal insults it only makes me question your judgment. While Matt and I appear to hold similar opinions, I don't defend him because of that. I defend him because, despite his age, is acting more mature. His opinions are based upon his experiences, the same basis you have for yours. The fact that his experiences are on the opposite end of the spectrum from yours doesn't make either his or yours right or wrong, yet you feel the need to dismiss them because either they are not the same as yours, or because he is 17. I personally don't care which it is, but both are invalid.

I have no quarrel with either of you. It sounds like both of you try to live good lives. I don't question either of your morals or honesty, but don't think that it is fair for you to question mine just because I hold a different set of ideas. This country was founded on the idea that people with different ideas are free to express them.

[Dark Side]

No not a criminal, just misguided and misinformed. Still waiting on you to defend him going after a promoter for 'fixing' a game and comparing him to a convicted rapist?

NO?

Do I need to tell you the stories of MXS game fixing? Would you believe it? Probably not, yet your incredulity that I do not reciprocate is funny.

How stupid are you? You might read beyond the first line but you do not stop to think.

I said in really big letters so the people with a first grade education would pick up on it. I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM YOU MORON.


I don't care about the stories. I don't care about anything even remotely related to YOUR past dealings with him. Stop putting me in the same circle as you and MXS because I don't buy into your rant of being holier than thou to atone for your past.



Shadowfire, it was a point brought on by the misnaming of the charges by someone else. But go ahead and belive that I am defending Pacman if you want. It seems perception is truth around here.

[ShadowFire]

The only point I have ever tried to make in regards to the situation is that the rape charge is irrelevant to the operations of MXS.

Does the fact that he is a convicted felon change the way he runs his games? Probably not. His past has absolutely no bearing on his ability to produce a scenario game.

His past does speak volumes to his character. With the past experiences I have had (first hand) with Pacman, the revelation of his being a rapist is just the icing on the cake. Although there's WAY more icing than cake now.



Shadowfire, it was a point brought on by the misnaming of the charges by someone else.

So instead of correcting the initial person that made a mistake you chose to further propogate that mistake and try to misdirect people reading your post?

[Dark Side]

Sure I have, but some mistakes you never get to shake. You realize that as a violent convicted felon, he cannot get a job in the banking industry, the real estate industry, he cannot be bonded so there goes construction and janitorial, he could not even get a job as a clown at a company that rented clowns to kid's birthday parties. He can't own a gun, yet he carries and uses a handgun registered to Diane. I didn't make those rules society did, and I didn't commit the crime, Pacman did.


I believe the law also states that a gun cannot be in your posession either. And yes unlees you are Congress or a Sepreme Court Justice as a side job, I doubt you would have anything to do with laws. Thanks.

I believe there is a law as well that states if you have information of a crime and do not report it, you become an accomplice to that crime. So since you have intimate knowledge of the crmes he continues to commit....

[Dark Side]

So instead of correcting the initial person that made a mistake you chose to further propogate that mistake and try to misdirect people reading your post?

Yes. That's what we criminal types do. Didn't you read the like defends like section.

[craltal]

Does the fact that he is a convicted felon change the way he runs his games? Probably not. His past has absolutely no bearing on his ability to produce a scenario game.



thank you for supporting my point. That's the only thing I've been trying to say

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Whatever guys, the statements are out there, I am not going to get on here and defend them to you point by point, the people who read this see both sides.

You accuse me of being holier then thou and a bully(oh wait, and a criminal, a moron and a idiot) and then you get mad when I point the crayon back at you.

Works for me!

Say something else of substance instead of the same ole tripe that you have posted since this thing started.

[ShadowFire]

thank you for supporting my point. That's the only thing I've been trying to say

I won't dispute your point at all, but it's a sad state of affairs when that's as far as you look.

If OJ had been convicted in the criminal case (not civil) would you have gone to his football games?

If Michael Jackson molested those kids would you still buy his albums (assuming you did in the 1st place) or go to a concert?

In other words would you continue to support these people after they committed some of the worst crimes imaginable?

Same situation here. Patrick McKinnon used violence to force a woman to do things against her will. This was verified by doctors and tried by a jury of his peers. You haven't denied the fact that he did these things, neither has Pacman by the way. You just say it doesn't matter that he did them and you will keep giving him money.

I choose not to support a man (if you can call him such) that has the ability to do those types of things to another human being. There is something seriously wrong there.

[Dark Side]

Whatever guys, the statements are out there, I am not going to get on here and defend them to you point by point, the people who read this see both sides.

You accuse me of being holier then thou and a bully(oh wait, and a criminal, a moron and a idiot) and then you get mad when I point the crayon back at you.

Works for me!

Say something else of substance instead of the same ole tripe that you have posted since this thing started.

I've been posting for 2 hours or so. This started way before then.

I accused you of being Holier than thou, a moron, and an accomplice. You read into being an idiot and a bully. Since you know the guy so well and you know the crap that he pulls, do something legitimate about it.

He served a sentence for 1 crime. You know of multiple more that he walks free for. Getting on AO to tell people that he is a bad man and don't go to MXS's events does nothing. You don't want to go to the police for the women that have been mistreated; fine. Convince them to go as one group to get the slimeball back in jail. Didn't I read somewhere that he was paroled? Isn't it a violation of that parole to break the law? Doesn't that violation get you back in jail? How is this difficult to understand?

[craltal]

Whatever guys, the statements are out there, I am not going to get on here and defend them to you point by point, the people who read this see both sides.

You accuse me of being holier then thou and a bully(oh wait, and a criminal, a moron and a idiot) and then you get mad when I point the crayon back at you.

Works for me!

Say something else of substance instead of the same ole tripe that you have posted since this thing started.

Well excuse me for sticking by an idea.

[craltal]

I've been posting for 2 hours or so. This started way before then.

I accused you of being Holier than thou, a moron, and an accomplice. You read into being an idiot and a bully. Since you know the guy so well and you know the crap that he pulls, do something legitimate about it.

He served a sentence for 1 crime. You know of multiple more that he walks free for. Getting on AO to tell people that he is a bad man and don't go to MXS's events does nothing. You don't want to go to the police for the women that have been mistreated; fine. Convince them to go as one group to get the slimeball back in jail. Didn't I read somewhere that he was paroled? Isn't it a violation of that parole to break the law? Doesn't that violation get you back in jail? How is this difficult to understand?


I think he's referring to me calling him a bully for his treatment or SR Matt

[Dark Side]

ah.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

You know, LOL, I don't answer to any of you and you believe what you want. Since none of your choices really affect me since you don't play the games or promoters I do (everyone but MXS) and that works for me.

You guys stay there and I will stay where I am. :clap:

And Darkside, love how you came out to attack Viper in the MOUT thread. Awesome play Will!!!

[Dark Side]

You know, LOL, I don't answer to any of you and you believe what you want. Since none of your choices really affect me since you don't play the games or promoters I do (everyone but MXS) and that works for me.

You guys stay there and I will stay where I am. :clap:

And Darkside, love how you came out to attack Viper in the MOUT thread. Awesome play Will!!!

Thank you. I find a strong offensive makes for the action. You leave the enemy realing not sure which direction to take. Apparently I attack everyone here. Who knew? :shooting:

Edit: It's pretty damn pointless to put out a thread telling people that Viper is having another Blanding event when it is by invite only. Don't you think, wait nevermind you have proven yourself not to.

[ShadowFire]

Edit: It's pretty damn pointless to put out a thread telling people that Viper is having another Blanding event when it is by invite only. Don't you think, wait nevermind you have proven yourself not to.

Actually it's also been put out who the commanders are and their contact info, if you want a shot at playing the game drop them a line.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

You're right, you are so smart and so much the man in scenario, I am sooooo sorry that I crossed swords with you. I am beaten.... boo hoo guess I'll go rape a woman like Pacman so you can decome a defender for me.


By the way, that's sarcasm there yoohoo! :rofl:

[craltal]

You're right, you are so smart and so much the man in scenario, I am sooooo sorry that I crossed swords with you. I am beaten.... boo hoo guess I'll go rape a woman like Pacman so you can decome a defender for me.


By the way, that's sarcasm there yoohoo! :rofl:


Wow. you wonder why we are not respecting your opinions with posts like this one.

Showing a great amount of maturity here.

[Mike Smith]

Thank you. I find a strong offensive makes for the action. You leave the enemy realing not sure which direction to take. Apparently I attack everyone here. Who knew? :shooting:

Edit: It's pretty damn pointless to put out a thread telling people that Viper is having another Blanding event when it is by invite only. Don't you think, wait nevermind you have proven yourself not to.

Here ya go... Contact Mark “Mudguts” Cohea of “The Moles” and ask to be on his side. If you're good enough, he might pick you.

From what I've heard, most of the Texans & Cajuns will be on Hawk's side {CTU}.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Wow. you wonder why we are not respecting your opinions with posts like this one.

Showing a great amount of maturity here.


LMAO, since when did maturity win you anything here?

Try again, PAB, try again!

[craltal]

LMAO, since when did maturity win you anything here?

Try again, PAB, try again!

so you concede the moral high ground to me since I refuse to act like a rabid 10 year old. I can live with that.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Yep, you win!!! You like the other PAB's here have beaten me into submission. LMAO

:rofl:

Oh wait, I forgot, you have no morality whatsoever. So go on back to your MXS corner!

[SR_matt]

you are just adding to the reasons of why people stop posting here. i dont understand why paintball forums attract people that just want to argue all the time, i had tried to be on forums that were better than the rest but this is one reason i have really shied away from all of the forums i used to post on and move to places that are actually productive.

-matt

[craltal]

Yep, you win!!! You like the other PAB's here have beaten me into submission. LMAO

:rofl:

Oh wait, I forgot, you have no morality whatsoever. So go on back to your MXS corner!


Your personal attacks are really getting old. You question my morality based on the posts here? Wow.

Nothing I say will change the mind of someone like you. I'm finished dealing with someone who's so emotionally hollow that they need to resort to this sort of behavior to make themselves feel better. I'm done feeding this troll.

[Dark Side]

I am suprised this isn't locked yet. Mods must take the weekends off.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Um ever thought maybe they figure it is just your intent to drive such a pointless conversation simply to see the thread closed?

Troll? Morality? You really need to check the stones there glass house dweller. You attack me in the same way you accuse me of attacking you? Then you scream for the mods? You people have no problems judging me by what I have said.

Unlike most people I do not back down from a fight, you want to go over the top, I am down. You want to get in the mud, I am down. That's the beauty of being me! :headbang:

And if you think I am the reason people aren't posting here, try again. Then again you could look in the mirror at your own self righteousness before coming after mine.

[Dark Side]

Um ever thought maybe they figure it is just your intent to drive such a pointless conversation simply to see the thread closed?

Troll? Morality? You really need to check the stones there glass house dweller. You attack me in the same way you accuse me of attacking you? Then you scream for the mods? You people have no problems judging me by what I have said.

Unlike most people I do not back down from a fight, you want to go over the top, I am down. You want to get in the mud, I am down. That's the beauty of being me! :headbang:

And if you think I am the reason people aren't posting here, try again. Then again you could look in the mirror at your own self righteousness before coming after mine.

When did you happen upon telepathy to know my mindset so very well? Normally after things came this far, Beemer or Army would have shut it down rather than to let it continue.

You never did answer my earlier question. Here let me quote it for you, since you must have missed it.



He served a sentence for 1 crime. You know of multiple more that he walks free for. Getting on AO to tell people that he is a bad man and don't go to MXS's events does nothing. You don't want to go to the police for the women that have been mistreated; fine. Convince them to go as one group to get the slimeball back in jail. Didn't I read somewhere that he was paroled? Isn't it a violation of that parole to break the law? Doesn't that violation get you back in jail? How is this difficult to understand?

Please, I'd like to know yur answer.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

When did you happen upon telepathy to know my mindset so very well? Normally after things came this far, Beemer or Army would have shut it down rather than to let it continue.

You never did answer my earlier question. Here let me quote it for you, since you must have missed it.



Please, I'd like to know yur answer.

Obviously you want me to spoon feed it to you so you can pick at it rather then find it out for yourself. But here you go, I am feeling generous.

He was released on good behaviour, he served 9 months probation and was released from that, Whereas he moved from OK to Texas to live with his parents. The violations since then have been done to females, with his postion in the sport as a top promoter, they already felt no one would believe them. Most of them took their complaints to Mother, and she chose to side with Patrick who used a typical statement that either they wanted it or that they were lying. Some of them were then run out of the sport by blackballing them to the industry or other players, while others chose to either fight back in other ways (You figure it out, I aint that gracious). There is no parole or probation that he is on. He served time for 3 counts, he completed 2 of them and got out early on the other.

These women know about this, I have talked to them and none of them will come forward because of comments such as yours and the others here who want to give the benefit of the doubt to a man convicted of a crime not even the ones he comitted since them. What about that don't you understand? Your seeming support of the fact that he was found guilty and convicted yet you defend him or his ideals here makes other victims not come forth.

And I cannot and will not force them to. You don't have a daughter do you? Ever been touched by rape? I mean really touched, sister, mother, wife, GF?

[Lawrence TB Wright]

I work for Lawrence TB Wright; So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies.



You do? Where do you work for me at?

I'm really getting a kick at that!

[Dark Side]

Obviously you want me to spoon feed it to you so you can pick at it rather then find it out for yourself. But here you go, I am feeling generous.

He was released on good behaviour, he served 9 months probation and was released from that, Whereas he moved from OK to Texas to live with his parents. The violations since then have been done to females, with his postion in the sport as a top promoter, they already felt no one would believe them. Most of them took their complaints to Mother, and she chose to side with Patrick who used a typical statement that either they wanted it or that they were lying. Some of them were then run out of the sport by blackballing them to the industry or other players, while others chose to either fight back in other ways (You figure it out, I aint that gracious). There is no parole or probation that he is on. He served time for 3 counts, he completed 2 of them and got out early on the other.

These women know about this, I have talked to them and none of them will come forward because of comments such as yours and the others here who want to give the benefit of the doubt to a man convicted of a crime not even the ones he comitted since them. What about that don't you understand? Your seeming support of the fact that he was found guilty and convicted yet you defend him or his ideals here makes other victims not come forth.

And I cannot and will not force them to. You don't have a daughter do you? Ever been touched by rape? I mean really touched, sister, mother, wife, GF?

Yes I have 2 daughters. My wife before we met was raped. I'd kill the person that would harm them. Maybe that's why my wife never told me who hurt her.

Once again. How did I side with MXS? How did I ever give pacman the benefit of the doubt. Quote my exact words that prove this or stop saying that I did.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

I have 2 daughters, 15 and 7, my 15 year old plays scenrio paintball (She just won her first MVP and no I didn't give it to her). They both know 'Mr. Pacman' as they called him as he and Diane came over to my house for holidays and such. They also spent time with Patrick and Diane if I needed to run to town or such, and I had to sit down with them and ask some hard questions. And then some people on here want to just boil it down to I am out to get the man?

My mother was raped (Solved, the man was in jail, however he died a few days after getting out)
My wife was raped, (On base by a Marine, he was never caught, however the person thought of doing ate a bullet.)
My Best Friend was raped (her was unsolved as well)

So I see this as a personal affront to anything that is good in scenario paintball. This is beyond 'supposed' shaving points by a promoter.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Read this post and see if you can see where someone would draw a conclusion that even though you say you do not condone him, you are defending him.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=36615540#post36615540

[Dark Side]

I have 2 daughters, 15 and 7, my 15 year old plays scenrio paintball (She just won her first MVP and no I didn't give it to her). They both know 'Mr. Pacman' as they called him as he and Diane came over to my house for holidays and such. They also spent time with Patrick and Diane if I needed to run to town or such, and I had to sit down with them and ask some hard questions. And then some people on here want to just boil it down to I am out to get the man?

My mother was raped (Solved, the man was in jail, however he died a few days after getting out)
My wife was raped, (On base by a Marine, he was never caught, however the person thought of doing ate a bullet.)
My Best Friend was raped (her was unsolved as well)

So I see this as a personal affront to anything that is good in scenario paintball. This is beyond 'supposed' shaving points by a promoter.

I believe that to be true. Pacman is a POS for what he did. End of story for him. But we have an unresolved issue. Why do you believe me to stand up for what pacman did?

I started posting in this thread because you jumped on a 17 year old kid for believing what he does. He saw things differently than you did and I will not just sit idly by while it happens.

I don't know anything about a promoter shaving points or cheating or whatever might have gone on at any Scenarioor any other type of game. I've seen what I've seen at the games that I've been to. I enjoy playing the game in it's purest form. Would I love to go to an elite weekend? Sure but I doubt anyone here is going to pay for me, and I can't shell out the $250+ for a weekend. So saying if you want it bad enough you will pay for it, and calling the players who don't want to pay that much a bunch of newbs is plain assinine.

I do have a question that is bothering me though. Why leave your girls alone with a convicted rapist?

[SCpoloRicker]

You do? Where do you work for me at?

I'm really getting a kick at that!

LURK MOAR.

[Dark Side]

Read this post and see if you can see where someone would draw a conclusion that even though you say you do not condone him, you are defending him.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=36615540#post36615540

Basing your opinion off of perception is a foolish one.

Because I started the post with a "I neither defend nor codone" automatically makes me for him?

I believe "I neither defend nor codone" meant I neither defend nor condone. No where in my post did I say I was for the guy. I asked if you ever made a mistake? That might have been the closest thing you could misconstrue.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

I believe that to be true. Pacman is a POS for what he did. End of story for him. But we have an unresolved issue. Why do you believe me to stand up for what pacman did?

I started posting in this thread because you jumped on a 17 year old kid for believing what he does. He saw things differently than you did and I will not just sit idly by while it happens.

I don't know anything about a promoter shaving points or cheating or whatever might have gone on at any Scenarioor any other type of game. I've seen what I've seen at the games that I've been to. I enjoy playing the game in it's purest form. Would I love to go to an elite weekend? Sure but I doubt anyone here is going to pay for me, and I can't shell out the $250+ for a weekend. So saying if you want it bad enough you will pay for it, and calling the players who don't want to pay that much a bunch of newbs is plain assinine.

I do have a question that is bothering me though. Why leave your girls alone with a convicted rapist?

I didn't know he was rapist, see my point? This was all buried so that no one that was close to Patrick other then maybe Diane knew about his past. Do you pull background checks on your friends? No, but I will not leave my children with anyone that hasn't gone through that, you can rest assured.

As for the jumping on the 17 year old, he got into something like a big boy, he should have been able to handle it or not got into it. But he equated Black Cat to being worse then a convicted rapist because of a perceived wronging at a scenario event. That to me is inexcusable, since I know both parties (Pacman and Black Cat, personally). Joke all you want, but I know quite a bit about most of the people who are at the top of the scenario ladder. I have my issues with Spiro as well, but I am not about to let someone get on here and compare him to a convicted rapist. That's just wrong, no matter how you slice it.

As for the 'elite' weekend as you called it, that would be Special Ops with their $1500 to $2300 to play for 3 days and you wanted to bust on Viper for having a game for people who want to compete at a higer level then normal scenario play. It maynot be for you, you don't have to like it, but it is not the end of scenario paintball because he is doing it. To a lot of people the attacking of it comes across as sour grapes.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Basing your opinion off of perception is a foolish one.

Because I started the post with a "I neither defend nor codone" automatically makes me for him?

I believe "I neither defend nor codone" meant I neither defend nor condone. No where in my post did I say I was for the guy. I asked if you ever made a mistake? That might have been the closest thing you could misconstrue.


Wouldn't be the first time I was foolish. idiotic or moronic today, now would it?

You say you don't support him, but defense of people who do support him (very fervently) links you to said defense whether you say no or not. At least IMO, that better?

And yes I have made mistakes and if I was a promoter/producer and someone felt the need to bring them out, I would have to face them if I wanted to stay in the sport. Since most of you do not know Pacman, if you think him resigning from MXS is the end of this, you are sadly mistaken and you do not know the man at all. Read my column on owning copyrights and trademarks in this sport and other things involving MXS.

The simple fact is that this did not have to be buried, he could have already told people and overcame the stigma of what he did by facing the music, donating money to women's shelters and such. You can ask how do you know he didnt? Because I knew the man as close as someone can fvor over 4.5 years. I lived with him and his wife, I wrote games, storylines, cards, and helped them with their business (how to use P&L's and more). I built their computer network and I helped in other ways that I am not proud of. I have talked to Viper and Wayne Dollack about the harm I caused them and apologized to both men. They have chosen to forgive me and allow me to play their games. But the crime was bad enough, the way it is being handled by MXS and some of the scenario public is just as appalling.

[Dark Side]

I didn't know he was rapist, see my point? This was all buried so that no one that was close to Patrick other then maybe Diane knew about his past. Do you pull background checks on your friends? No, but I will not leave my children with anyone that hasn't gone through that, you can rest assured.

As for the jumping on the 17 year old, he got into something like a big boy, he should have been able to handle it or not got into it. But he equated Black Cat to being worse then a convicted rapist because of a perceived wronging at a scenario event. That to me is inexcusable, since I know both parties (Pacman and Black Cat, personally). Joke all you want, but I know quite a bit about most of the people who are at the top of the scenario ladder. I have my issues with Spiro as well, but I am not about to let someone get on here and compare him to a convicted rapist. That's just wrong, no matter how you slice it.

As for the 'elite' weekend as you called it, that would be Special Ops with their $1500 to $2300 to play for 3 days and you wanted to bust on Viper for having a game for people who want to compete at a higer level then normal scenario play. It maynot be for you, you don't have to like it, but it is not the end of scenario paintball because he is doing it. To a lot of people the attacking of it comes across as sour grapes.

Specops also gave away some of those spots for free if I read correctly. I misnamed it. The Oct Blanding event is still too expensive for me at this point. I did not bust on Viper for having an event at a higher level than normal play. I busted on him for advertising for an invite only game. You have very think skin if you feel that asking if you have to be bribed is busting on on person. The only person it should come across as sour grapes to should be Viper.

I never joked about anything dealing with a game or the promoters of them.

[SCpoloRicker]

Wouldn't be the first time I was foolish. idiotic or moronic today, now would it?

Probably not.


You say you don't support him, but defense of people who do support him (very fervently) links you to said defense whether you say no or not. At least IMO, that better?

Uh, no. And your english is terrible.

[Dark Side]

Wouldn't be the first time I was foolish. idiotic or moronic today, now would it?

You say you don't support him, but defense of people who do support him (very fervently) links you to said defense whether you say no or not. At least IMO, that better?

Yes, it at least gives me a reason for your actions today.



And yes I have made mistakes and if I was a promoter/producer and someone felt the need to bring them out, I would have to face them if I wanted to stay in the sport. Since most of you do not know Pacman, if you think him resigning from MXS is the end of this, you are sadly mistaken and you do not know the man at all. Read my column on owning copyrights and trademarks in this sport and other things involving MXS.

I do not know or have ever met ANYONE associated with MXS. I do not believe it is over. He will still receive money for MXS events.



The simple fact is that this did not have to be buried, he could have already told people and overcame the stigma of what he did by facing the music, donating money to women's shelters and such. You can ask how do you know he didnt? Because I knew the man as close as someone can fvor over 4.5 years. I lived with him and his wife, I wrote games, storylines, cards, and helped them with their business (how to use P&L's and more). I built their computer network and I helped in other ways that I am not proud of. I have talked to Viper and Wayne Dollack about the harm I caused them and apologized to both men. They have chosen to forgive me and allow me to play their games. But the crime was bad enough, the way it is being handled by MXS and some of the scenario public is just as appalling.

Nope he didn't. He could have stood up and corrected to the best of his abilities the errors he had created.

Edit: missed the {

[Lawrence TB Wright]

Uh, no. And your english is terrible.


Why thank you, would your prefer German or Spanish? Is that all you can find to question me about?

[SCpoloRicker]

Why thank you, would your prefer German or Spanish? Is that all you can find to question me about?

Well, I meant to imply that your line of argument is flawed.

[Lawrence TB Wright]

You implied that because my english wasn't up to your specs that my arguement is flawed.

OK

[Ninjeff]

.....


Boy, this thread took a turn for the silly.

[craltal]

.....


Boy, this thread took a turn for the silly.


Silly is not quite the word I would use to describe the tangent this thread took...

[Lee]

Silly is not quite the word I would use to describe the tangent this thread took...

amen. it's pattern with some people.

[ShadowFire]

I do not know or have ever met ANYONE associated with MXS. I do not believe it is over. He will still receive money for MXS events.

Dark Side, as you have said, you stepped up here to help defend a kid butting heads with the big bad TB (and that is a mighty big head to butt against :rofl: ).

All well and good but where do you stand on MXS? You posted earlier that Pacman is a POS and I wholeheatedly agree with you of course. You also said that supporting MXS will support Pacman. Should we as a community stand up and refuse to allow that influence into the top tier of our sport? I think so.

There was a fairly well known player here in Texas that was recently charged with posession of child pornography. Even though he wasn't producing it, his acts created a demand for it and furthered the exploitation of children. Acts against children, in my mind, are the only thing worse than what Pacman did. What's going to happen when he gets released from prison? I don't know, guess we will wait and see.

But at this point we do know what Pacman did and what he has done "for the sport" and I believe it is part of our responsibility to be sure his actions don't influence the game we love. In short, Pacman is not good for paintball.

[Dark Side]

Dark Side, as you have said, you stepped up here to help defend a kid butting heads with the big bad TB (and that is a mighty big head to butt against :rofl: ).

All well and good but where do you stand on MXS? You posted earlier that Pacman is a POS and I wholeheatedly agree with you of course. You also said that supporting MXS will support Pacman. Should we as a community stand up and refuse to allow that influence into the top tier of our sport? I think so.

There was a fairly well known player here in Texas that was recently charged with posession of child pornography. Even though he wasn't producing it, his acts created a demand for it and furthered the exploitation of children. Acts against children, in my mind, are the only thing worse than what Pacman did. What's going to happen when he gets released from prison? I don't know, guess we will wait and see.

But at this point we do know what Pacman did and what he has done "for the sport" and I believe it is part of our responsibility to be sure his actions don't influence the game we love. In short, Pacman is not good for paintball.

Where do I stand on MXS? Before this past week or so when this thread was opened, I knew nothing of pacman's past, good or bad, never hearing of him. I have heard of MXS, being that they put on games at Blanding, but beyond that nothing at all.

I believe that patrick should have his genitals torn from his person and fed to him raw.

I believe that dianne should not be allowed to ever set foot on another field.

I believe that MXS should cease to exist and all revenue that has been made by the company should be put into an account solely for the purpose of paying retribution to the women that have been hurt by patrick's misdeeds.

[Coralis]

All I'm going to say on the subject is that my wife and I won't be attending any of their events, I'm not taking the chance .

[Beemer]

I am suprised this isn't locked yet. Mods must take the weekends off.

Umm well no, no we dont. I have had my finger on the trigger since this thread started. I had a Great Fathers Day today with my Dad. Just catching up on this thread now. This is considered an open and self Governing Forum. I have had some PMs and e-mails on this thread. [self governing] I was close to a lock before you made this post. Should I lock it now??? After catching up it seems you and Lawrence CAN converse at some level. Locking a Thread is not always the best answer. When it is it gets it. I am always wrong and suck as a mod or so I have read, so maybe I should have locked it sooner, then again maybe not.

It took Lawarence this long to get out the real issue. That issue is he didnt have ALL the facts on his Compadres and is pissed at himself and now wishes all facts known. So be it spill the Facts. Although I think you could do it with a little more finesse and LESS rudeness to other members. The PMs I got were in reference to this also and I agree. Post your facts and your opinions and how you feel. Stop attacking with BS. Show some respect and you will get it in return. That goes for other members as well.

Lawarence.. I saw Army had to do an edit in the other thread on one of your posts. Remember you still represent AO here being a Mod in the other forum.

Darkside... As far as cookies go, Thank You for Serving. PM me an addy and I will send you a crate of any kind of Cookies you want. That should also help to cover some of TBs shortsidedness with his cookie remark. :cheers:

Peace Out

[TnDeathInc]

People are so hypersensative (sp?)

Sexual preadators are living nest door, driving your school buses, teaching kids in some places. Dont beleive me, look at your sexual predator registry. Hell there are two in my neighbohood, 45 in my town. OMG i need to move, get a life, heh,

[ViperScenarios]

That's true

With the state and feds keeping track of them that well, there must be reason to do so. Perhaps that goes for ALL of them.

[Dark Side]

Beemer, you have a PM.

[Ninjeff]

Well th thread seems to have gotten ok again.

I feel partly responsible because i found the original info (on another site) and posted it here for discussion regarding its impact on the sport, and as a "heads up" for some southern members should they need it.

Well, anyway, im glad the mods didnt lock it. We are all (somewhat) adults here, and hopefully can act accordingly.

[Dark Side]

If you hadn't someone else would have posted this.

Hopefully a truce of some sort has come to the thread.

[Mike Smith]

If you hadn't someone else would have posted this.

Hopefully a truce of some sort has come to the thread.

I don't know about a truce...

I've already stated everything I can think of about the situation.

[Thordic]

Basically all this thread boils down to is just about every chick in Lawrence's life has been raped so therefore he has a real hard-on for rapists.

We get it, Lawrence. But that makes your view skewed. Theres a reason that a judge would never let you sit on a rape trial.

Pacman's other personal faults are not the issue here. He may be an asshat but that doesn't mean he deserves this.

And throwing out other attacks without proof doesn't help either.

So kindly crawl back under whatever bridge/rock/house you were hiding under.

[Pneumagger]

I think one needs to take a step and look at the situation with controlled circumstances.
Say the situation had been the same circumstance of having a convicted sexual predator in the upper tiers of a scenario company. However lets also this man is a real stand up gentleman forthcoming about his wrongdoings, amiable, and a great all around guy (other than his past).

Ask yourself if he would be treated the same if his character were to be of an outstanding nature. It seems to me that people are overreacting to something they never saw coming and didn't expect about a man whose past they assumed normal. The answer isn't just throwing him out because of his past, and theres no law for him to advertise that his company is run by a sexual preadtor. LOTS of companies employ ex-convicts who committed sexual crimes. If you choose to boycott every company that does so, you're either a hypocrite or you never buy anything.

I'm not defending "pacman" or any other predators here. What he did was pretty disgusting. I am simply bringing up the fact that society as a whole is hypersensitive to just about everything and plays the card as a cop-out to nearly every situation nowadays. If people don't sac up and quit whining about thier inconviences, things are just going to get worse for everyone.

[Zapp Branigan]

Let me start by saying I'm not supporting Pacman, nor do I condone rape or sexual assualt. I'm simply going to point something out.

Lots of people plead "Guilty" to crimes they haven't committed.

Here's how it works.

Someone accuses you of a crime. Police file a report. Send it to the Assistant D.A. who decides if there is enough to prosecute. If so, a warrant is issued.

Defendant is arrested. He goes before a magistrate who sets his bond amount. Bond amounts are pretty much preset for most crimes. If the defendant can post bond, he does so, and is released until his court date.

If the defendant can't pay his bond, or get a bondsman to pay it, he is then taken to county jail.

For a felony, he will sit in county jail for anywhere between 30 and 180 days, while he waits for the grand jury to indict him. The grand jury hears very little evidence. If the defendant can't afford a lawyer, he will get a public defender. The PD NEVER shows up at a grand jury indictment. Only the ADA shows up. the grand jury simply decides if there is enough evidence to try the defendant. If so, they indict him.

PD then goes to the ADA to see if they can plea bargain. PD goes to defendant and offers the deal. As a whole, every one of these deals requires the defendant to plead guilty. Whether they are innocent is not the point. the ADA gets a win, the defendant does less time than what a jury might give him, it's a whole "Bird in the hand is better than 50 years from the jury".

It all depends on the evidence against you. And in the case of rape, a lot of the time it comes down to one persons word against the other. the physical evidence is hard to prove, because whether sex was consensual is the point.

So you got some guy who has been sitting in jail for 4 months, who gets the following pitch. "Plead guilty and I'll give you 8 years, you'll only serve 4. Or go to trial. If you decide to go to trial, it'll be 8 months to a year before we have a court date. And if you lose in court, if the jury doesn't believe you, then the deal is off and we push for a full 50 years. Your choice."

How many people do you think jump at the deal?

I'm not saying this happened in this case. I'm simply saying this happens more often than most people think.

[ShadowFire]

Let me start by saying I'm not supporting Pacman, nor do I condone rape or sexual assualt. I'm simply going to point something out.

Lots of people plead "Guilty" to crimes they haven't committed.

Show me where he plead guilty?

Can you even appeal a guilty plea? "Oh I just remembered I'm not guilty, I would like to appeal."

A brief search through the posted documents and I found the jury verdict proclaiming him guilty. If you plead out you don't go before a jury.

[rabidchihauhau]

Only God can judge, in God's eyes everyone is given many chances. :rolleyes:


Well, excuse me for being an atheist, but with that kind of an attitude, Hitler would be running Europe.

God, as you understand him/her/it, will be judging in the AFTERLIFE and is welcome to do so. I live in the real world and have no problem with mere mortals, properly elected or appointed, from taking on that role...

[rabidchihauhau]

Again, we DO NOT know the entire story. Being convicted of a crime does not mean you are 100% guilty of that crime. We don't know the entire story here. Im not defending him, simply saying how about we don't hang the guy without knowing ALL the facts. Hey, don't go play in the games if you don't want but find out ALL the facts.


According to the court records he was 100% GUILTY.

If you want to discuss whether he got a proper defense, or whether the court went overboard, or if there was a very bad case of mistaken identity, that's a different issue...

[Zapp Branigan]

Show me where he plead guilty?

Can you even appeal a guilty plea? "Oh I just remembered I'm not guilty, I would like to appeal."

A brief search through the posted documents and I found the jury verdict proclaiming him guilty. If you plead out you don't go before a jury.

Hence the wording

"VERDICT BY JURY (filed Jan 21, 1986) SENTENCING April 4th, 1986:
guilty of count II, forcible sodomy: sentenced to 5 years
guilty of count I, rape in the 1st degree: April 4, 20 years
guilty of count III, forcible sodomy: 5 years"


I never said Pacman plead out. I was merely pointing out there are plenty of not guilty people that are also ostrasized because of the way the system works.

I apologize for not spelling that out for you.

Also, yes. Even if you plead guilty in a case, most states (Including Texas) will allow you to appeal within 30 days.

And ALL states allow you to appeal a guilty verdict upon the discovery of new evidence.

Although I do find it odd that he was sentenced in 1986, but his appeal wasn't shot down until 1992.

[rabidchihauhau]

Well since this thread has grown I might as well weigh in with my thoughts.

First off, I've never been to a scenario game and have never heard of MXS. Sending anonymous letters and posting such personal information is just plain wrong. Especially when the crime took place back in 1985. I know criminal records are in the public domain, but come on, whatever happened to common courtesy?.

If it were "wrong" we'd never have learned about trhe Watergate break-in, and ten million other things that we're better off for having known.

You are making the mistake of forgetting about the message and focusing on the messenger/method of delivery.

[ShadowFire]

Also, yes. Even if you plead guilty in a case, most states (Including Texas) will allow you to appeal within 30 days.

Thanks for pointing that out. I will be the first to admit I don't know all the laws (even in my state).

It still seems like your entire 1st post was meant to misdirect. You included "I'm not saying this happened in this case" but the entire post dealt with people who plead guilty for some reason. That did not happen in this case, he plead not guilty and was found guilty by a jury. The fact that some "other" people plead guilty to avoid a lengthy trial (or whatever) has no bearing on this discussion.

[Thordic]

If it were "wrong" we'd never have learned about trhe Watergate break-in, and ten million other things that we're better off for having known.

You are making the mistake of forgetting about the message and focusing on the messenger/method of delivery.

Thats a terrible analogy.

This is something that was dealt with by our justice system, bringing it up now is just airing dirty laundry.

[rabidchihauhau]

best one I could think of at the time.

Tell me, do you think the abu ghraib pictures 'just happened' to show up one day?

The point is that FACTS have a way of showing up and very often the best defense against them is to attack the messenger.

We can focus at another time on the character, motives and likley sexual predilictions of the source - but for now, I'd prefer to discuss the facts that were revealed.

[Thordic]

Again, you are talking about two different things.

Bringing crimes to the attention of the proper authorities so they can be investigated is one thing. That would be Watergate, Abu Gharib, etc.

Bringing up past crimes where time has been served 20 years after the fact is ENTIRELY different.

Thats more like when your gf/wife constantly reminds you of everything you did wrong 5-10 years ago. But 100x worse.

[Nudi]

best one I could think of at the time.

Tell me, do you think the abu ghraib pictures 'just happened' to show up one day?

The point is that FACTS have a way of showing up and very often the best defense against them is to attack the messenger.

We can focus at another time on the character, motives and likley sexual predilictions of the source - but for now, I'd prefer to discuss the facts that were revealed.

This is a direct quote from my post over on PBN. (www.pbnation.com) I haven't posted here in a while...lol...but I follow it a lot.

I really don't care about the source. I care about the information. You want to discredit the information because it came from an anonymous source? If that is the case, then some of you might need to consider the fact that you can't see the forest for the trees.

This isn't about the source. It's about the fact that one Patrick McKinnon is a convicted rapist and sodomizer.

Why do I say that? For several reasons. (This is the start of why I feel this is important to scenario paintball)

Because this genre of the sport touts itself as being family friendly. This genre of the sport touts itself as being self-policing of it's members (for cheating, lying, stealing, etc). And most importantly, this genre of the sport has more WOMEN and CHILDREN in it than the other genres.

I'm in the health care field. I wrote several papers on abnormal psychology. One was on (suprise, suprise) rapists. My personal history with rape drove me to want to know more about the 'why' of it.

And the things I found out:

(1) Next to the incest child molesters, rapists were second most likely to sexually recidivate (become a repeat offender).
(2) across several studies, treated offenders sexually recidivated at a rate of 19%, whereas untreated offenders sexually recidivated at a rate of 27%
(3) In terms of treatment, research suggests that adequate treatment would need to address general crime issues as well as sexual crime issues, to ensure that rapists do not reoffend.
(4) In fact, it has been noted that "rapists share more characteristics with the general criminal population than do child molesters."
(5) Since rapists engage in a variety of criminal behaviors and have high recidivism rates, they are difficult to rehabilitate effectively.
(6)Sex offenders often victimize more than one person, and there are usually multiple victims before an offender is caught.

If anyone needs my 'sources' I'd be more than happy to let you have them.

Why is the above rhetoric important? Do you think there were aggressive sex offender programs in Oklahoma during this time?

Most studies point to the fact that treatment of sex offenders spans the person's lifetime. As there is no Patrick McKinnon registered as a sex offender in Texas (loopholes in Oklahoma and Texas laws), I'd say it's safe to assume there has been no long term treatment/follow up or even monitoring.

So, just for arguments sake, let's say one Patrick McKinnon is an untreated sex offender. 27% chance of repeating. Sorry, it's just not an acceptable risk to me.

And that's what it gets down to: Risk. I chose to err to the side of caution.

Now for this forum I add:

As a consumer, I have that right. The information is out there and the truth of the matter (since some of you seem to think this isn't the Patrick McKinnon of MXS fame) will reveal itself in it's time. You can chose to believe it or not, and when the truth comes out there will still be people who refuse to believe. You can chose to support them or not. It's your right as well.

I just don't want to give my money to a KNOWN convicted rapist and sodomizer. And before you go there, I probably give my money to people all the time who are convicted felons. But I also know where every sex offender lives within a 100 mile radius...I chose to not support them either.

See, it's not that every woman in TB's life has been raped. Just the important ones...

His mother. His wife. And his best friend: me.

Judge me. I don't care. I have the right to stand up for what I believe in and fight against that I do not.

[rabidchihauhau]

Again, you are talking about two different things.

Bringing crimes to the attention of the proper authorities so they can be investigated is one thing. That would be Watergate, Abu Gharib, etc.

Bringing up past crimes where time has been served 20 years after the fact is ENTIRELY different.

Thats more like when your gf/wife constantly reminds you of everything you did wrong 5-10 years ago. But 100x worse.

Ok, forget the analogies.

I believe that sometimes 'ratting' can be a good thing, if the information disclosed is of actual benefit. I can think of all kinds of circumstances in which anonymity is legitimate in such circumstances and an equal number of situations in which the information is of past actions but might have a bearing on the future.

Actually, don't forget analogies, here's a paintball example:

You know that so-and-so and his team regularly practice cheating techniques because you used to be on the team. You left because you're an honorable player. Now you're at an event and so-and-so's team is attending. You go to the head referee and rat them out. They haven't done anything. All of their "crimes" are in the past. Your information is heresay and probably emotionally biased.

You know what? I may think you're a rat, but as the head referee, I appreciate hearing about it. Now I'll watch those guys a little more closely. If you were to give me better detail, I'd watch for those specific things also. Will I penalize them for things they haven't done or things they've done in the past? No. They'll get the same treatment as every other team at the event. But you can be damned sure that they won't get away with any of their usual tricks should they decide to try and maybe, just maybe, the fact that they've been ratted out will cause them to behave a little better.

In regards to the specific case - thank goodness it was a paintballer doing the ratting in a paintball setting. Now we know. Can you imagine the mainstream press getting ahold of this? I don't care on what pretext as in and of itself the old crime is not news, but give the press red meat and they'll find a way to eat it.

[ViperScenarios]

The Dru Sjodin National Sex Offender Public Registry

http://www.nsopr.gov

"The silent sex offender can be just as dangerous as notorious neighborhood gang members, and because of this we must keep parents and communities informed and engaged."

"Sharing information with concerned citizens and parents is an integral part of our strategy to protect communities from these predators who wish to harm the most vulnerable among us.”

My gosh! Those dirty rats. What on Earth are they thinking?!?!? Those peoples' crimes were in the past, and they've paid their debt to society! :confused:

Sure is a LOT of tax money being spent to insure that everyone keep an eye on this type of person. Wonder if, perhaps...

* the government has reason to believe that monitoring of violent sex offenders is important

* the general, voting public, agrees with them

http://www2.ucsc.edu/rape-prevention/statistics.html

* In a study of 6,000 students at 32 colleges in the US, 1 in 4 women had been the victims of rape or attempted rape. (Warshaw 1994)

* In a study of 6,000 students at 32 colleges in the US, 42% of rape victims told no-one and only 5% reported it to the police. (Warshaw 1994)

That's nearly half of all rape victims that don't tell anyone that it happened. How do you know that the female teammate, or player you are sharing the bunker with, hasn't been victimized? According to statistics 1 in 4 women on the field have been. Now...the question is...by whom? Anyone you know?

I'd say that there is just cause for concern by responsible people... :(

[Dark Side]

[I]

See, it's not that every woman in TB's life has been raped. Just the important ones...

His mother. His wife. And his best friend: me.

Judge me. I don't care. I have the right to stand up for what I believe in and fight against that I do not.


That raises an eyebrow. Was he the one that hurt you?

[ViperScenarios]

Deleted

[ViperScenarios]

As is this one.

[Nudi]

No worries, Viper. It was, in this instance a legitimate question for several reasons.

The easiest to understand of course is it would explain why TB appeared to be so violently pursuing the topic.

I will answer your question, Dark Side, as I have nothing to hide (in this regard...lol).

We were, for a while, on the same team (Blitzkrieg). and I've been over to their home several times, as a guest.

So, yes he did 'hurt' me, but not physically or sexually. Feelings get hurt when a team splits and when you feel betrayed....or when you feel attacked, not only personally (he had some choice names to call me....one which rhymes with BUNT) but as a player (and that's a longer story to tell...and has no real bearing on this discussion.

Does that answer your question?

[ViperScenarios]

I humbly apologize. I took it as inferring that TB was the one that hurt you.

Dark Side, I hope you will accept my apology.

Posts retracted.

[Dark Side]

Viper, I never saw what you posted so no worries. I see that my post could easily mislead people now that I look at it again.


Nudi, that does answer my question. Sorry if you had to look twice to understand what I meant. I'm glad you did understand where I was coming from. I have nothing against why TB is violently pursueing the agenda. I agree with his reasons. The only thing that started me up against him was the misconstruement of a 17 year old kid's stance.

I believe TB and I are very much alike in the aspect that we have had people VERY close to us get hurt in a sexual manner. I also believe that we are very much alike in the fact of what we would do to said people if ever the chance arose. Read my earlier post on what I think of Patrick if you feel the need to know my thoughts. I think I surprised Shadow with them.

[ShadowFire]

I think I surprised Shadow with them.

In a good way.

[Zapp Branigan]

I have a question. I've read all the documentation a few times, and am trying to get some numbers to match up.

Pacman was sentenced on April 4, 1986.

His appeal was shot down October of 1992.

It's been said he only served 8 of his 20 years.

Which means he would have been released sometime in 1994.

He became a field owner of BSG in 1996. (Wonder where he got the money.... 2 years after getting out of prison)

Then, according to 10-Shot's summary (citing TB's info),

"Then 4 years after he is released he sells a paintball field for over 6 figures and starts a company [MXS]. "

So he sold BSG in 98? I seem to remember he sold it somewhere closer to 2000.

But I could be wrong. It happens a lot.

[rabidchihauhau]

I have a question. I've read all the documentation a few times, and am trying to get some numbers to match up.

Pacman was sentenced on April 4, 1986.

His appeal was shot down October of 1992.

It's been said he only served 8 of his 20 years.

Which means he would have been released sometime in 1994.

He became a field owner of BSG in 1996. (Wonder where he got the money.... 2 years after getting out of prison)

Then, according to 10-Shot's summary (citing TB's info),

"Then 4 years after he is released he sells a paintball field for over 6 figures and starts a company [MXS]. "

So he sold BSG in 98? I seem to remember he sold it somewhere closer to 2000.

But I could be wrong. It happens a lot.


Your timing disconnect may be due to incomplete memory, the difference between selling and actually transferring a business or the differences between stated intention and actual fact...

[CONFIRMEDKILL]

Original case, in case (http://wyomcases.courts.state.wy.us/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=10810) anybody wanted to read it....

[ShadowFire]

Original case, in case (http://wyomcases.courts.state.wy.us/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=10810) anybody wanted to read it....

Actually, that's the appeal.