Automag RT INSULTED!!!

[Raffizzz]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I speak very highly of my Automag RT, and
yesterday I showed it to my co workers, and today I overheard them
talking and laughing about it, insulting it by saying that it has passed
it's time!!!!, I know this classic piece is old, but is it that bad?
recently I asked for upgrade info, and you suggested to get the level 10
bolt upgrade, and that should do it for the RT. At this point I'm so
mad, that next time I go out paintballing with this guys, I want to make
a point. What else can I do to make this up to date. I'm in the Los
Angeles area, if anybody can help my customize it, hit me up.

Thank You
Raffi.

[Warwitch]

Well, you know most pb'ers only care that their gun can spit 145 BPS these days. If I have to hear one more word about "how fast my Ion is" im gonna go postal :shooting:

Remember, there is no substitute for quality ;)

[Rudz]

Drag em to an ao day, every ao day I have been too scares the hell out of refs and players, why? Mags aren't slow, mags aren't old, at tunaball the refs were astonished by how fast some of the mags ripped, mags always turn heads, most people refuse to believe mags have evolved to ule, dw, pnuematic, ult'd, electro'd, monsters, xmags and emags with xmod rip faces, mags aren't the stainless paint blenders anymore, mags are indestructable war machines, from pump, pnue, electro, mech, or EP, mags will continue to turn heads for years to come, because we still have our mags and they aren't going anywhere. Das untermag

[DaFin]

Time to share this experience.

For the record I have played a little tourney ball both stock class and open but not since 1993. The majority of my gear is/was the best of that era including my level 7 non-PF mag running C02 mounted vertically and a J&J hard chromed barrel and the pot metal (pre CF) single trigger frame.

That being said a co worker invited me to a private game amoung friends about a year ago. Now I had played 2-3 times in the previous oh ..... 5 years so I knew my marker still worked and where enverything was. So prior to the first game I heard things like "Dude, the Antiques Road Show called and they want their gun back". So there we are ... me, forty something and out of shape a friend and old team mate from the 90's with his ...you got it.... level 7 mag on C02, etc. we *walk* down the left tape, shoot out my co-worker with his Ion and four other people before wrapping it around and back door-ing pretty much everyone else on thier team.

Fear the mag. Respect the Mag!

Now since then I have the bug to play once again and now I have several mags some of which have ULE bodies, intelli-frames and level 10 set ups, I even bought an HPA bottle recently but I feel comfortable walking on to any feild, rec-ball or speed ball with any of those markers.

Old School...

[athomas]

Quite often, I turn my emag off to play against non-tourny players. Even then I often overpower them. I have no problems practicing Xball with my retromag. Yes, I can't get the consistent 15bps that the coach wants us to do when breakout shooting, but after the initial breakout, I don't suffer at all. Actually, I only lose about 3 - 5bps on the breakout. I love mags.

[Tao]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I speak very highly of my Automag RT, and
yesterday I showed it to my co workers, and today I overheard them
talking and laughing about it, insulting it by saying that it has passed
it's time!!!!, I know this classic piece is old, but is it that bad?
recently I asked for upgrade info, and you suggested to get the level 10
bolt upgrade, and that should do it for the RT. At this point I'm so
mad, that next time I go out paintballing with this guys, I want to make
a point. What else can I do to make this up to date. I'm in the Los
Angeles area, if anybody can help my customize it, hit me up.

Thank You
Raffi.

Get a flatline or other adustible regulator for your HPA tank and set it to 1200psi input. The make it rain with the reactive trigger :shooting:

[Warwitch]

Then make it rain with the reactive trigger :shooting:

You mean like Fat Joe..
http://www.musiqueradio.com/images/news/memyselfandi.jpg :eek:

[maglover728]

"Whoop their @55 sea bass" Play smart and have fun above all else though.

[Warwitch]

"Whoop their @55 sea bass" Play smart and have fun above all else though.


lol, I love that movie :rofl:

[AirAssault]

"Whoop their @55 sea bass" Play smart and have fun above all else though.


Actaully it's "Kick his @55 seabass".

[Dark Side]

Drag em to an ao day, every ao day I have been too scares the hell out of refs and players, why? Mags aren't slow, mags aren't old, at tunaball the refs were astonished by how fast some of the mags ripped, mags always turn heads, most people refuse to believe mags have evolved to ule, dw, pnuematic, ult'd, electro'd, monsters, xmags and emags with xmod rip faces, mags aren't the stainless paint blenders anymore, mags are indestructable war machines, from pump, pnue, electro, mech, or EP, mags will continue to turn heads for years to come, because we still have our mags and they aren't going anywhere. Das untermag


:hail:

[spectra260]

The classic rt may be a tad heavy and use alot of air but I think its one of the best looking and most fun guns made and the trigger is awsome.

Heres my Automag RT. I got lvl10 installed, intelliframe w/dye sticky grips and the flatline. I never chop and I can shoot fast enough and not waste tons of paint like I do with my angel. Def get the lvl10, play them and own them :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/Spectra260/AUTOMAGRTpic.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/Spectra260/AUTOMAGRT3Small.jpg

[50 cal]

I get the funny sneers when I break out my classic RT at local fields. The sneers and laughs change after the first rip. My RT with the output pressure jacked up a bit makes a crazy almost full auto burst. :)
Then I get the 'Mags are blenders" routine. With the Lvl 10, not one chop.

Past its time? I think not.

[Raffizzz]

Thanks guyz for all the support. :hail: I oredered the level 10 bolt, and I'm looking for a flatline tank, let me know where I can get it for a resonable price. and as far as the grip and triger upgrades which one should I get or just stick with the original one that's on there.?

[Raffizzz]

Thanks guyz for all the support. :hail: I oredered the level 10 bolt, and I'm looking for a flatline tank, let me know where I can get it for a resonable price. and as far as the grip and triger upgrades which one should I get or just stick with the original one that's on there.?


btw the place I ordered the level 10 bolt upgrade for 66.00 has it on backorder, they told me they will get it in 2 weeks. any other places that have it in stock for that privce or will match?

[Malystryx]

Themagsmith.com has them for $76, you might be able to talk them down. Actionvillage.com has them for $66 but out of stock. I'll keep an eye out for you, but your best bet is probably to search for a new (but owned by someone else) level 10 kit on the B/S/T forums here. Good luck with your search.

[Raffizzz]

The classic rt may be a tad heavy and use alot of air but I think its one of the best looking and most fun guns made and the trigger is awsome.

Heres my Automag RT. I got lvl10 installed, intelliframe w/dye sticky grips and the flatline. I never chop and I can shoot fast enough and not waste tons of paint like I do with my angel. Def get the lvl10, play them and own them :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/Spectra260/AUTOMAGRTpic.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/Spectra260/AUTOMAGRT3Small.jpg


The triger on your gun looks like a double triger, I have the classic single triger, what do I need to do to upgrade it to a double triger like yours, or if anybody has suggestions, at this point I'm very excited to do some changes on myjpg RT. see attached my RT

[Tao]

The triger on your gun looks like a double triger, I have the classic single triger, what do I need to do to upgrade it to a double triger like yours, or if anybody has suggestions, at this point I'm very excited to do some changes on myjpg RT. see attached my RT

You will need either a intelli frame, Y grip or Z grip. (or other aftermarket grips). You can just get any of these grips, you need ones speacially modified for the Classic RT. A Y grip will serve you well, but if you find a Z grip on ebay it goes more with the older RT :clap:

[Raffizzz]

ok guys I found this Intelliframes at AGD web store http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=1&categoryID=9 for 119 and it fits the RT, let me know if they have it any other place, or any better ones???

[captian pinky]

well since u have been out awhile there is a lot not much for the classic rts pretty much new frames triggers is as far as u can go but there are more aftermarket companies now than ever just look around ao especially at mag of the month

[mclaggan123]

raff i have an intelliframe thats in real good shape that i dont use. ill let it go for $85 shipped. let me know. i took it off my mag cause i got emag lowers. also check tunamart.com for any other mag stuff your looking for.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h215/mclaggan123/DSC01021.jpg

[ProblemKinder]

btw the place I ordered the level 10 bolt upgrade for 66.00 has it on backorder, they told me they will get it in 2 weeks. any other places that have it in stock for that privce or will match?

my local store has them :D

[ProblemKinder]

www.themagsmith.com
www.tunamart.com
www.lukescustoms.com

i could spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars at these websites...if I had hundreds of dollars that is.

ok, ditch the RT bounce thing. i'll admit it's really cool but alot of fields don't allow it, even for normal rec ball. (i played primarily at velocity, in san diego). get the ULT and keep putting shims in until you get the reactive thing, and then take one shim out. get your gun in peoples hands. when they feel how light the trigger is for a mech gun, they'll be impressed.

level 10 is a must. go to the level 10 thread to see how to tune it. or just send it to tuna he'll have your gun firing at 110%.

I personally recommend the Y grip. I have one Y grip and two Z grips, and I LOVE the Y grip. the Z grips aren't as comfortable, I just have them cuz...well there was only 400 made! and I have 2! :D

you don't really need a flatline unless you wanna do the RT Bounce thing.

then www.gruntbull.com or http://www.aplusanodizing.com/index.html will get your gun looking sezzy.

after that find somebody to mill my slug body for me :ninja:

[Runamok]

I love it!!!!
I own a {4} classics with some mods and My first "Baby"{classic lvl 7 w/114 3000 Air America Armageddon. weights 30 lbs} And I can rain 15 BPS with an 18volt revvy. I love eating up the newer electros because they won't believe this game is based on skill and not on rate of fire.
One case one kill is NOT my way. Now to be fair I got a RT pro custom ..AKA ule with X valve ULT and a Halo that will scream I just can't reload it fast enough. And just for fun a stock class Phantom. They hate being shot by a bush. If all comes togather one day I'll walk on with a pump Mag and embarrass a few people. Live by these words " Age and Cunning will over come youth and speed" Mod up your RT because we used to rule this field and will again!! I'm living proof that dinosaurs once reigned supreme.
Runamok

[Runamok]

By the way the Ul trigger running at 900 psi will do wonders for your trigger pull. A Freak or other barrel system is a must for accuracy and air economy.

[ProblemKinder]

I love it!!!!
I own a {4} classics with some mods and My first "Baby"{classic lvl 7 w/114 3000 Air America Armageddon. weights 30 lbs} And I can rain 15 BPS with an 18volt revvy. I love eating up the newer electros because they won't believe this game is based on skill and not on rate of fire.
One case one kill is NOT my way. Now to be fair I got a RT pro custom ..AKA ule with X valve ULT and a Halo that will scream I just can't reload it fast enough. And just for fun a stock class Phantom. They hate being shot by a bush. If all comes togather one day I'll walk on with a pump Mag and embarrass a few people. Live by these words " Age and Cunning will over come youth and speed" Mod up your RT because we used to rule this field and will again!! I'm living proof that dinosaurs once reigned supreme.
Runamok

30 lbs?? :rolleyes:

[FiXeL]

Play your co-workers and show them what an old, outdated gun can do. No mercy for cowards!! :headbang:

It really pisses me off when somebody tells me my gun sucks because it's an antique.... BPS doesnt matter at all.. It's what you do with it that makes you, not the gun. I love mags, and it will be hard to shoot anything else.

[redmagik]

Raffizz...I am 40 yrs old and play with a BIG scenario team...most play with smarts parts guns...one of our sponsors....I got picked up for the team while playing with an old micromag RT fro proteam products...they are not made anymore. I often have kids ask what it is. I also have a level 10 and ULE trigger. they freak when I go on the speedball field and tag them off the break...ticks em off. I run an Apex or Stiffi barrel, TSA frontman loader, gas thru stock and an 88/4500 tank on remote. Needless to say...I and my teammate with his flatlined a5 own our section of the field. Don't let them discourage you...just get out there, own em, and do the MAG community proud!

[ProblemKinder]

Play your co-workers and show them what an old, outdated gun can do. No mercy for cowards!! :headbang:

It really pisses me off when somebody tells me my gun sucks because it's an antique.... BPS doesnt matter at all.. It's what you do with it that makes you, not the gun. I love mags, and it will be hard to shoot anything else.

well, BPS does matter a little bit. imagine what a buh-gillion balls per second, PLUS good aim and tactics would do for a person! :ninja:

mechs FTW! :headbang:


EDIT: did they move this? i could have sworn it was in the tech forum...oh well this seems more appropriate in Paintball Talk anyways =]

[Tao]

raff i have an intelliframe thats in real good shape that i dont use. ill let it go for $85 shipped. let me know. i took it off my mag cause i got emag lowers. also check tunamart.com for any other mag stuff your looking for.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h215/mclaggan123/DSC01021.jpg

Unless your gun was an RT classic, your frame will need to be modified to fit his gun. Sorry to shoot the offer down, but it needs to be pointed out.

[Tao]

Hey Raffizzz just to clarify. An "ultra light trigger pull kit" will not work in your classic RT. I just want to clarify that because there have been many suggestions to do it. Well this statement is not 100% true. Some of the last classic RT's apparantly can, and you can also get your gun modified to take it.

Basically the "ULT" needs there to be 2 orings in the bottom of your on/off hole in your valve. If you take the on/off assembly out and you see one small oring inside a larger oring in the bottom of your valve then you are fine to install the ULT. However you will probably only see the small one (sitting in a recess in the bottom of the hole), and would need the hole reemed out so you can fit in the double.

[shartley]

You know, I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone cares what someone else thinks or says about their marker. My RTPro rocked on the field and shot darts. And I NEVER had anyone insult it or anything else I was using. But you know what? No one ever insulted my son or his marker when he was using an old Spyder TLPlus either, or my wife and her customized TL Plus.

Maybe the issue is not markers or other equipment but people wanting to insult the PERSON and using what is handy to do so? The same as when folks insult someone’s car, house, clothes, etc. Most of the time it has nothing to do with any of the stuff, but about them personally and trying to make them feel bad.

So maybe folks need to stop trying to defend the things folks insult, but just enjoy them. Go play paintball with whatever marker you are using at the time. Have fun.

[TnDeathInc]

Remeber well highschool. for me it was around 20 years ago, it started in 6th grade. If you wasn't wearing Jordans or nikes or reebok, maybe even british knights, you were wearing "Buddies." Remeber all the girls wanting to wear guess jeans.

Its all about status. I for instance, like a goober load up my 4 mags get them from the bags along with the 1-2 higher end elctros i have and usually end up rocking with my olive green xvalved mag or my old faithful xvalved mini with the pressure cranked up to about 1000psi. The comments generally change to hey man is that an electro, can i shoot it. I can tell you i get uber thumbs ups from everyone who has been in the sport more than 6 -8 years, and a nose turned up at me from the 10-15 year old punks who got an ego or timmy for their birthday.

But with thier heads cocked back with their noses turned up it makes them way better targets. I usually end up letting some real noobs play with a couple of my mags.

either way its what you like. With a little money invested (xvalve, Ult, adj reg most imp.) and a tad of skill you can really keep up with anything. :shooting: :headbang:

[Raffizzz]

Unless your gun was an RT classic, your frame will need to be modified to fit his gun. Sorry to shoot the offer down, but it needs to be pointed out.

Thank you everyone, :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:
after doing some research. I found out that the rt classic intelliframe is different, so I went ahead and ordered one from aiirgun store. so far I've ordered the level 10 bolt, freak barel adpt, ntelliframe double trriger for regular RT. and now I'm looking into the ULE/ULT trigger, does antbody know if this is available for the regullar RT, and if is where to get it?

Thanks Raffi :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

[athomas]

The ULT won't fit your gun. The ULT only fits the mags that take 2 orings above the on-off top. You can have the valve on-off hole milled out to accept the ULT.

[Raffizzz]

The ULT won't fit your gun. The ULT only fits the mags that take 2 orings above the on-off top. You can have the valve on-off hole milled out to accept the ULT.


the on and off saftety on the trigger your talking about? cause that's the only on and off I see, the only other part I've checked so far is the bottom part of the valve where the triger push's it, and when I took it off, there was a O ring on it, and smaller o ring inside!!!!!????

Can someone post a picture showing the above of the on_off, 2 orings please

Thanks :confused: :confused:

just took some pictures of the bottom part of the valve

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x233/Raffizzz/148.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x233/Raffizzz/MYRT.jpg

[ProblemKinder]

the on and off saftety on the trigger your talking about? cause that's the only on and off I see, the only other part I've checked so far is the bottom part of the valve where the triger push's it, and when I took it off, there was a O ring on it, and smaller o ring inside!!!!!????

Can someone post a picture showing the above of the on_off, 2 orings please

Thanks :confused: :confused:

http://www.angelfire.com/anime/anime1084/paintball/xvalve.jpg

the first picture is just my x-valve. i drew an arrow pointing to the ON/OFF, it's the brass colored square thing. you can pull it out with your fingernails, sometimes you need a screwdriver to pry it out, but 9 out of 10 times fingernails will do. make sure not to bend the on/off pin.

http://www.angelfire.com/anime/anime1084/paintball/thumbnails/600x450/onoff.jpg

the second picture is a picture of my RT on/off (comes stock in an Emag/Xvalve) and a ULT on/off which costs like, 60 bucks or something, and the RT on/off O-rings. notice the ULT is a bit longer. these will both fit in a Emag/xvalve, but in order for the RT on/off to fit, it needs two o-rings (the black one inside the white one) to make up for the shorter length. the ULT is longer, and therefore will not fit with the o-rings inside. make sure if you replace your ON/OFF with a ULT, you keep those o-rings in case you want to use your RT ON/OFF later.

this of course is all assuming you purchase an X-valve. none of this applies to your valve. i don't have a RT valve otherwise i would use it in the pictures, this is all i have. (well, and my minimag valve)

i personally recommend going with the x-valve and ULT. it takes the RT effect out, but gives you a very light, very LEGAL trigger pull. tuning it is very easy. i just kept adding shims until i got the RT Bounce effect, then took one shim out. works beautifully.

[ProblemKinder]

also, if you look at the picture you uploaded there for us to see, take a look at the dark black/brownish oring inside the valve. the metal part around that oring is what needs to be milled out in order for a ULT to fit in your valve. I don't know who does that kind of work, but I know I would never try it.

[Tao]

the on and off saftety on the trigger your talking about? cause that's the only on and off I see, the only other part I've checked so far is the bottom part of the valve where the triger push's it, and when I took it off, there was a O ring on it, and smaller o ring inside!!!!!????

Can someone post a picture showing the above of the on_off, 2 orings please

Thanks :confused: :confused:

just took some pictures of the bottom part of the valve

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x233/Raffizzz/148.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x233/Raffizzz/MYRT.jpg

Unfortunately there aren't any pics readily available, but if you canget your hands on an x valve or even an old classic valve they have the dual oring at the bottom of the on/off hole. (note: valves on xmags or emags have a different centre oring)

[athomas]

Raffizzz :

If you look at your pictures, you can see that there is only 1 oring at the bottom of the hole where the on-off assembly fits in. It is recessed into the valve. In order for the ULT to fit, the entire assembly has to be at the same depth as the recessed oring hole. It won't fit until you have the valve's on-off hole machined to the correct depth.

[nathanjones008]

besides pimping out your rt you sell your rt and ue the money you would for rt upgrades and get a rail or a mini or fusion. It will be cheaper in the long run, rails need very little to NO upgrades. Make it easy!! :headbang:

[cyberave68]

I believe the point is to trick out the mag a bit and mow some co-workers faces so go for it... :shooting: :shooting: :shooting:
Make them regret taking bad about a mag... :cuss:

[Thotograph]

besides pimping out your rt you sell your rt and ue the money you would for rt upgrades and get a rail or a mini or fusion. It will be cheaper in the long run, rails need very little to NO upgrades. Make it easy!! :headbang:
Soory man but he's not looking for a way out, and anyways wtf? a rail needs ALOT of upgrades, or so all the cool kids down at the local shop would have you think, just to be half as good as a rt is out of the box... speed isn't everything... you gotta be able to maintain your gun, but that doesn't mean knowing how to provide a quick fix in between games (something I've NEVER had to do with me mags, ever).



The point of upgrading a mag is that once you upgrade it to your liking you don't have to do anything else to it and it just works... better than before (and trust me the products from agd actually do make your gun better, unlike many "ups" which really do nothing more than boost your perception of performance).

I'd say you are def on the right track Raff... just take it step by step and build your gun up until you feel satisfied with what it can do, don't settle for the latest bps 5000 when you can simply revive the legendary gun you already own and have it last ten times longer. I'd say a ult is one of the best things you can ever do to your mag... I've been thrilled to pieces with mine.

The other area I'd recommend you focus on would be supplying your rt with a good consistent air source, and while you're at it get a big tank. Then the lack of efficiency is a non issue. The flatline system from AGD is an excellent choice and is very similar to a mag and takes alot of the same orings etc, so it's very easy to maintain along with your rt.... other systems I recommend would be the dynaflow by centerflag, or maybe an older Air America Armageddon or Apocalypse if you are looking to spend less and still get the same results (they are a little heavier though) if weight is an issue then the dynaflow is your best bet (imo) plus they are only $75 rebuilt from centerflag.If you send in your bottle they'll swap it over for you and then you'll be in business.

Goodluck, hit me up on aim if you've got any other q's or whatever... goodluck!
:cheers:

[Bluemag321]

Dont worry about what other people think off your gun you bought it for a reason it doesn't matter if it can't spit 30+bps, they won't even allow it to be that fast you've got a good piece of history thats stood the test of time anyways it not the gun it's the player holding the gun.

[nathanjones008]

Soory man but he's not looking for a way out, and anyways wtf? a rail needs ALOT of upgrades, or so all the cool kids down at the local shop would have you think, just to be half as good as a rt is out of the box... speed isn't everything... you gotta be able to maintain your gun, but that doesn't mean knowing how to provide a quick fix in between games (something I've NEVER had to do with me mags, ever).



The point of upgrading a mag is that once you upgrade it to your liking you don't have to do anything else to it and it just works... better than before (and trust me the products from agd actually do make your gun better, unlike many "ups" which really do nothing more than boost your perception of performance).


No the rail doesnt really need much upgrades. I am am mostly( besides a better trigger, $25.00 and perhaps a barrel) satified with it the way it is out of the box. The mag is a good and reliable gun but, it is not the only good quailty gun out there! Yes i agree speed isnt all about paintball, i couldnt agree with you anymore, but with the rail you get more bang for your buck. Trust me i have looked up into upgrading my mag vs. the rail,( i havebeen shooting mags for 7 years). and the rail is much cheaper (or any gun around like unto it the rail)and you get more for your money. i have had my rail for 2 months now and 0 problems, i take care of it . If you take care of ANY gun it will take care of you.

but id the maker of this thread wants to spend his bucks on the rail than so be it. Its his decision, I am showing a alternative way for his situtaion. :shooting:

[Tao]

Soory man but he's not looking for a way out, and anyways wtf? a rail needs ALOT of upgrades, or so all the cool kids down at the local shop would have you think, just to be half as good as a rt is out of the box... speed isn't everything... you gotta be able to maintain your gun, but that doesn't mean knowing how to provide a quick fix in between games (something I've NEVER had to do with me mags, ever).



The point of upgrading a mag is that once you upgrade it to your liking you don't have to do anything else to it and it just works... better than before (and trust me the products from agd actually do make your gun better, unlike many "ups" which really do nothing more than boost your perception of performance).


No the rail doesnt really need much upgrades. I am am mostly satified with it the way it is out of the box. The mag is a good and reliable gun but, it isnt the only good quailty gun out there. Yes i agree speed isnt all about paintball, i couldnt agree with you anymore, but with the rail you get more bang for your buck. Trust me i have looked up into upgrading my mag vs. the rail,( i havebeen shooting mags for 7 years). and the rail is much cheaper and you get more for your money. i have had my rail for 2 months now and 0 problems, i take care of it . If you take care of ANY gun it will take care of you.

but id the maker of this thread wants to spend his bucks on the rail than so be it. Its his decision, I am showing a alternative way for his situtaion.


I don't know about you but if I did have even a minor glitch after only 2 months I would freak!!
Anyway buying another gun is not the point of this thread since that is basically what his buddies are trying to say. All he really needs is an adjustable reg like the flatline so he can rip paint faster than anything else on the field.

[speed_ga]

to be brutal honest about your situation.... nathanjones008 is right. Though the automag technology works and of good quality...it's way outdated. I mean research and you will soon find out that AGD hasn't improved there technolgy much. I mean....who hasn't gone electric yet?? They are a company that was on top of tourny level back in the day. Now days the electric craze has gone to great lengths and dominate the speed market. Don't get me wrong...your rt is a good gun and compares to some of the other mechanical guns. But your coworkers are in a way correct. And why upgrade a gun that even fully upgrade...wouldn't compare the quickness of the low priced...but high quality, light weight, and tourney approved electros! Then again it's your decision. Get whatever floats your boat. If your hard core into automags...this isn't gonna change your mind....but it's the honest truth. AGD in a year or so...is gonna be out of business....they are afraid to come out with anything new....even though they have great fan support...it's a shame...........


AGD!!! :wow: OPEN YOUR EYES!!! GET UPDATED!!!!

[speed_ga]

:tard:
Thank you everyone, :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:
after doing some research. I found out that the rt classic intelliframe is different, so I went ahead and ordered one from aiirgun store. so far I've ordered the level 10 bolt, freak barel adpt, ntelliframe double trriger for regular RT. and now I'm looking into the ULE/ULT trigger, does antbody know if this is available for the regullar RT, and if is where to get it?

Thanks Raffi :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

for all that money you spent....you could of gotten better technology...did you research some of the 400 doller range electros....

[nathanjones008]

speed_ga

to be brutal honest about your situation.... nathanjones008 is right. Though the automag technology works and of good quality...it's way outdated. I mean research and you will soon find out that AGD hasn't improved there technolgy much. I mean....who hasn't gone electric yet?? They are a company that was on top of tourny level back in the day. Now days the electric craze has gone to great lengths and dominate the speed market. Don't get me wrong...your rt is a good gun and compares to some of the other mechanical guns. But your coworkers are in a way correct. And why upgrade a gun that even fully upgrade...wouldn't compare the quickness of the low priced...but high quality, light weight, and tourney approved electros! Then again it's your decision. Get whatever floats your boat. If your hard core into automags...this isn't gonna change your mind....but it's the honest truth. AGD in a year or so...is gonna be out of business....they are afraid to come out with anything new....even though they have great fan support...it's a shame...........


AGD!!! OPEN YOUR EYES!!! GET UPDATED!!!!


lol :cheers:

[cyberave68]

to be brutal honest about your situation.... nathanjones008 is right. Though the automag technology works and of good quality...it's way outdated. I mean research and you will soon find out that AGD hasn't improved there technolgy much. I mean....who hasn't gone electric yet?? They are a company that was on top of tourny level back in the day. Now days the electric craze has gone to great lengths and dominate the speed market. Don't get me wrong...your rt is a good gun and compares to some of the other mechanical guns. But your coworkers are in a way correct. And why upgrade a gun that even fully upgrade...wouldn't compare the quickness of the low priced...but high quality, light weight, and tourney approved electros! Then again it's your decision. Get whatever floats your boat. If your hard core into automags...this isn't gonna change your mind....but it's the honest truth. AGD in a year or so...is gonna be out of business....they are afraid to come out with anything new....even though they have great fan support...it's a shame...........


AGD!!! :wow: OPEN YOUR EYES!!! GET UPDATED!!!!


You call that brutally honest? That's called a biased OPINION. Just cause you think mags need to update doesn't mean mags are outdated. Mags have been electro, just because they don't want to pay some other piss off company royalties doesn't mean they need to up date. Your electro wont work in 4-5 years. After all the repairs and parts and upgrades your in the hole for alot more, and stuck with a expensive paper weight(That still dont work!). His mag will still keep shooting while you out spending another $400 to get another AGG gun. The guy likes his gun that's why it bothered him that they were talking bad about it. I hope he gets his gun and gives them a few bonus balls for thinking you have to have an new electro just to play paintball. Oh wait that sounds more like you??? People are allowed there opinions but for the record i have spent more money fixing my 2 electros over the past 2 years that i could have gotten 3 or 4 Emags and just played paintball...

My 2 cents for tonight....

[Tao]

to be brutal honest about your situation.... nathanjones008 is right. Though the automag technology works and of good quality...it's way outdated. I mean research and you will soon find out that AGD hasn't improved there technolgy much. I mean....who hasn't gone electric yet?? They are a company that was on top of tourny level back in the day. Now days the electric craze has gone to great lengths and dominate the speed market. Don't get me wrong...your rt is a good gun and compares to some of the other mechanical guns. But your coworkers are in a way correct. And why upgrade a gun that even fully upgrade...wouldn't compare the quickness of the low priced...but high quality, light weight, and tourney approved electros! Then again it's your decision. Get whatever floats your boat. If your hard core into automags...this isn't gonna change your mind....but it's the honest truth. AGD in a year or so...is gonna be out of business....they are afraid to come out with anything new....even though they have great fan support...it's a shame...........


AGD!!! :wow: OPEN YOUR EYES!!! GET UPDATED!!!!

lol :rofl:

The AGD system (I mean the guts not the trigger system) is still way ahead of most guns. Guns these days have only low pressure above and beyond the automag which allows a few extra shots and is a bit softer on paint AT THE SACRIFICE of top end BPS performance (due to the slower recharge of the valves.

In a pure BPS race the auomag will probably outshoot any gun today in max BPS without shoot down. However this doesn't mean much.

The main thing is if a gun can support 20bps without problems (shoot down etc) after that is it easy to fix, is it reliable, is it easy on paint. The main feature which the automags are missing is break beam eyes, which you don't need with a warp feed anyway.

Besides electro guns are for tournament play, rec play is a little silly with electros unless all you are playing is speed ball.

The RT is just fine as is. At the most it could use an anti chop bolt which will let it handle any paint in and environment. It may still break some paint, but less that almost any other gun out there.

[speed_ga]

:rofl: you got me rolling...hahaha I've had a old style matrix that I have had since 2002 and it has never failed me or cost me more money. So whatever your doing to your electro gun can't be good for it.... Thinking a Mechanical Mag can compete with todays higher end is just the user being blind. Thats like if someone bought a Nintendo NES original and decided that it's the better built of todays gaming systems. Although the Nintendo worked for it's time...it's just a classic now and wouldn't have a chance competeing against the higher end market of the gaming industry. I'll change my opinion when AGD stops increasing prices of there old "CLASSIC" products and mabey design something more current.

i'd like to give a bow to all the companies that work around the clock to improve and invent new products for the paintball players! :hail: :hail:

And AGD gets this guy> :cuss: AGD just needs to grow up and produce something new...

[nevtangle]

but it's the honest truth. AGD in a year or so...is gonna be out of business....they are afraid to come out with anything new....even though they have great fan support...it's a shame...........


AGD!!! :wow: OPEN YOUR EYES!!! GET UPDATED!!!!
Do you know how many times I've heard this exact same thing? And guess what... Still in business!

And what are all these other companies coming out with that is so revolutioary? Electros? Those have been out for a long time. Ever heard of the E-Mag?

[cyberave68]

:rofl: you got me rolling...hahaha I've had a old style matrix that I have had since 2002 and it has never failed me or cost me more money. So whatever your doing to your electro gun can't be good for it.... Thinking a Mechanical Mag can compete with todays higher end is just the user being blind. Thats like if someone bought a Nintendo NES original and decided that it's the better built of todays gaming systems. Although the Nintendo worked for it's time...it's just a classic now and wouldn't have a chance competeing against the higher end market of the gaming industry. I'll change my opinion when AGD stops increasing prices of there old "CLASSIC" products and mabey design something more current.

i'd like to give a bow to all the companies that work around the clock to improve and invent new products for the paintball players! :hail: :hail:

And AGD gets this guy> :cuss: AGD just needs to grow up and produce something new...


Ok so your gun still works lucky you. You hear a lot more people complaining about there electros going down and needing fixed. Not to many mags go down? Its like the energizer bunny, keeps going, and going. As for my electro? I keep my gear really well, and as for what I do with it. IT’S CALLED PAINTBALL!!! I don’t destroy my gear/equipment but my electro has failed me many times. That’s why I ALWAYS have a back up mag with me. As for a mechy keeping up with and electro. I have this little vid for you This is a mechy mag running a pretty high BPS...(Oh yea that’s right mechy's cant keep up with eletro's :tard: )

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/t0nnn/th_pneumag.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t272/t0nnn/?action=view&current=pneumag.flv)

Your right the guns are classic, but still perform great for there age... Also like I said before, AGD doesn’t want to pay ROYALTIES to some money hungry company that had to start by putting patents on how thing are made. I wouldn’t want to pay some stick it in your back side company money to develop an idea that everyone should be able to use. Look at the markers of today. Nothing really new is really being invented? One gun has done something a bit different. The Mini, and I think it’s kinda funny how it resembles a Emag? But that’s I different subject. As for most other guns, they are all the same inside, Ram, lpr, board, solenoid, and a million setting you don’t need. Most of them redesign there body style and call it new and improved. I don’t think that’s to much being developed... I agree that AGD should try to develop something new but that’s there company not mine... We may see the day or not but till then, WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN IF YOU’RE STILL NOT SURE??

[speed_ga]

Do you know how many times I've heard this exact same thing? And guess what... Still in business!

And what are all these other companies coming out with that is so revolutioary? Electros? Those have been out for a long time. Ever heard of the E-Mag?


Emag...hahahahahahaha what a joke...when was the last time they produced the emag. Here is a qoute straight from AGD's Store Emag although a good gun...you can't even purchase a new one.

"Custom E-Mag

Not available at this time."

They have not been avalible for forever. Even at that...have you ever shot a electro compared your mag. Don't even try to tell me that your trigger pull is shorter than an electro...because that's just outragous! lol and I better put this in here...i'm not talking about spyder electro's...try a same price range electro like the mini, rail, etc....

Talking about revolutionary.......the prototype page on here is a joke. The last prototype is from 2003...lol I could go on and on...but heres a posting from the AGD's official site homepage.
"After using 200 AGD Automags for field rental markers for the last 9 years at Foxwood Skirmish in Norfolk, England, owner Mike Mason has opened a second field at Plumstead just outside Norwich, and his choice for the only rental paintball markers at the new venue? The AGD Pro Classic!"

ok....since when does a company resort to bragging about being a rental marker at a paintball field. Why are they not showing you new product....improvements...and so on? Invent or at least reinvent the automag to improve and live up to the standards of todays paintball game. boo for AGD.....

And I know this has to come up or probley already has......If you can't Invent a new maker that someone else has a patent for a particular design....you have to pay royalties. Look at what the Mini has accomplished. They have a new design and don't pay a cent to smart parts. :spit_take

[Tao]

:rofl: you got me rolling...hahaha I've had a old style matrix that I have had since 2002 and it has never failed me or cost me more money. So whatever your doing to your electro gun can't be good for it.... Thinking a Mechanical Mag can compete with todays higher end is just the user being blind. Thats like if someone bought a Nintendo NES original and decided that it's the better built of todays gaming systems. Although the Nintendo worked for it's time...it's just a classic now and wouldn't have a chance competeing against the higher end market of the gaming industry. I'll change my opinion when AGD stops increasing prices of there old "CLASSIC" products and mabey design something more current.

i'd like to give a bow to all the companies that work around the clock to improve and invent new products for the paintball players! :hail: :hail:

And AGD gets this guy> :cuss: AGD just needs to grow up and produce something new...

LAMO!!!!!! I like this one: "i'd like to give a bow to all the companies that work around the clock to improve and invent new products for the paintball players! :hail: :hail: " Do you know what AGD brought to the industry. Do you know what "new" things are being made today? Well nothing. The pulse was as far as new inovation has come recently, but it was shot down by lawsuits (we will see if they are valid or not). Anyway all there is in todays market is "planned obsolescence". maunfactures today are making guns lighter with some other minor features. They KNOW how light they can make the gun, but instead of going straight there they take baby steps towards it so they can sell 05, 06, 07, 08, 09 models which get slightly lighter as they go.
Well mechanical AGD guns can compete with the electros of today with the right upgrades, which I admit are expensive. Also I don't know why you compare using nintendo since all but the orriginal system sucked even when they first came out :rofl:

Anyway if you hail those companies who inovate you can thank AGD for regulators, constant air (instead of 12 gram cartrages), high pressure air, , adjustable regulated HPA tanks, contributing to reasearch for barrel accuracy. Not a long list, but these things are HUGE. And they still were inovating, until the paintball environment changed from sharing of technology to trying to manopolize on it.

My stock emag can out shoot most other markers I have seen anyway :P Hybrid mode is still a way beter trigger system than anything out there. It doesn't take much to make sure it is a legal (pure semi) mode either :clap:

[speed_ga]

nice video...but why would u post that when you chopped a ball. :rofl:

[cyberave68]

It was a barrel break? I wasnt shooting it...lol

[Tao]

Emag...hahahahahahaha what a joke...when was the last time they produced the emag. Here is a qoute straight from AGD's Store Emag although a good gun...you can't even purchase a new one.

"Custom E-Mag

Not available at this time."

They have not been avalible for forever. Even at that...have you ever shot a electro compared your mag. Don't even try to tell me that your trigger pull is shorter than an electro...because that's just outragous! lol and I better put this in here...i'm not talking about spyder electro's...try a same price range electro like the mini, rail, etc....

Talking about revolutionary.......the prototype page on here is a joke. The last prototype is from 2003...lol I could go on and on...but heres a posting from the AGD's official site homepage.
"After using 200 AGD Automags for field rental markers for the last 9 years at Foxwood Skirmish in Norfolk, England, owner Mike Mason has opened a second field at Plumstead just outside Norwich, and his choice for the only rental paintball markers at the new venue? The AGD Pro Classic!"

ok....since when does a company resort to bragging about being a rental marker at a paintball field. Why are they not showing you new product....improvements...and so on? Invent or at least reinvent the automag to improve and live up to the standards of todays paintball game. boo for AGD.....

And I know this has to come up or probley already has......If you can't Invent a new maker that someone else has a patent for a particular design....you have to pay royalties. Look at what the Mini has accomplished. They have a new design and don't pay a cent to smart parts. :spit_take

I agree with the prototype page. it has just been left up there just for the history since there won't be anything new there until the environment settles dow a bit.

what is wrong with bragging about the rental market? This is marketing. Should AGD try marketing the latest and grates electro which would have to be better than the emag and half the price to compete or target a market shich only has a few companies competing in (tippmann, pirahna) rather than (SP, WGP, WDP, and on and on and on)

For the high end electro market, AGD supplies basic parts like the x valve which is STILL supperior to almost everything out there (some guns are just catching up), and market it to the consumer who customizes their own guns by building it from the ground up to suit their own tastes. It is still a small market, but it is empty and mostlikely more profitable than reentering the mainstream market. The theory is companies are "profit maximizers" AGD was never afraid to pay for tallent (engineers, etc) to help them be competitive. They are in the place where they can be the most profitable.

[nathanjones008]

Wow! One of the main reason AGD is still is business because it is prolly a 1-3 man show. There is marcy, and some tech dude. As far as i am concerned no one is hired to create ( with the exception of tom k decides to step in, but i do not expect it.

This is what i see, then are milking all the old products as much as they can to squeeze every penny possible before they go under.( selling old stock). :shooting:

[nevtangle]

Emag...hahahahahahaha what a joke...when was the last time they produced the emag. Here is a qoute straight from AGD's Store Emag although a good gun...you can't even purchase a new one.

"Custom E-Mag

Not available at this time."

They have not been avalible for forever. Even at that...have you ever shot a electro compared your mag. Don't even try to tell me that your trigger pull is shorter than an electro...because that's just outragous! lol and I better put this in here...i'm not talking about spyder electro's...try a same price range electro like the mini, rail, etc....

Talking about revolutionary.......the prototype page on here is a joke. The last prototype is from 2003...lol I could go on and on...but heres a posting from the AGD's official site homepage.
"After using 200 AGD Automags for field rental markers for the last 9 years at Foxwood Skirmish in Norfolk, England, owner Mike Mason has opened a second field at Plumstead just outside Norwich, and his choice for the only rental paintball markers at the new venue? The AGD Pro Classic!"

ok....since when does a company resort to bragging about being a rental marker at a paintball field. Why are they not showing you new product....improvements...and so on? Invent or at least reinvent the automag to improve and live up to the standards of todays paintball game. boo for AGD.....

And I know this has to come up or probley already has......If you can't Invent a new maker that someone else has a patent for a particular design....you have to pay royalties. Look at what the Mini has accomplished. They have a new design and don't pay a cent to smart parts. :spit_take\
And what are all these other companies coming out with that is so revolutioary? Electros? Those have been out for a long time. Ever heard of the E-Mag?

All that nonsense and you still didn't answer my question... :rolleyes: :tard:

[speed_ga]

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.

[cyberave68]

If you can't Invent a new maker that someone else has a patent for a particular design....you have to pay royalties. Look at what the Mini has accomplished. They have a new design and don't pay a cent to smart parts. :spit_take
Smart parts patent covers useing electronics to fire a marker... I'm pretty sure that Invert is paying the royalties...?? Isnt that why there was all the talk about a law suit???


ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.
Lightness of paintball markers---- Hmm ULE body, rails, Alum valves ok next???
Speed of paintball markers---- X-vavle can keep up with speed???
Paintball prices--- Hmm tough one, But what marker holds it value better???
Running of markers at really low pressure. ---Cockers have been running low pressure for years...

So none of what you listed is new????
As for the the mag, ever notice other guns copy the mag? Hall sensor on the Mini, forward battery pack, Ion--- single tube body design, that's been done? Its kinda hard to say that those things you listed are all new to the industriy of paintball. Yes they havent put anything new out but that doent mean anything????

[Tao]

Wow! One of the main reason AGD is still is business because it is prolly a 1-3 man show. There is marcy, and some tech dude. As far as i am concerned no one is hired to create ( with the exception of tom k decides to step in, but i do not expect it.

This is what i see, then are milking all the old products as much as they can to squeeze every penny possible before they go under.( selling old stock). :shooting:

Thats what everyone thought 5 years ago, but they are still in business. There is no way someone would be retarded enough to order a single year's woth not to mention years worth of inventory, so obviously they are still manufacturing.

AGD has a few more staff, but paying for staff doesn't = success. Contracting out marketers, engineers, other speacialist, or even the production of inventory are perfectly acceptable business practices. It only becomes economical to have these processes in house if they are never idle, which all that I have listed are (with inventory AGD makes inventory in batches, not as a continuous opperation).

Just because AGD doesn't market to the mainstream doesn't mean they willgo out of business. it is perfectly profitable to target niche markets or even the field rental industry. Wethere they are maximizing their potential is up to speculation for us and really only Dave Zupan can give us a definete answer. Yeah one of the main reasons why AGD is still in business is because they probably keep only necessary costs. Having a handful of people working for the company doesn't mean failure or success, neither does having 100 or 10000 employees.

[speed_ga]

Smart parts patent covers useing electronics to fire a marker... I'm pretty sure that Invert is paying the royalties...?? Isnt that why there was all the talk about a law suit???

The mini has 3 new patents for it's design. Smart parts doesn't have a patent like the one you mentioned above. Thats way to broad. That would be like toyota having a patent on cars that run off fuel.

[Tao]

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.

Ion revolutionized, by sacrificing quality and reliability for low cost and as many features as possible and I salute the success of it, but it is definelty not a high end marker.

I have to say in my oppinion weight and low pressure are irrelivant. Go to the gym. Low pressure has some advantages, but sacrifice performance. people believe some of the wonderful thing low pressure does, but many claims are unfounded.

Price is a big thing and this is probably the hardest thing for AGD to balance, but not impossible.

Speed of markers was revolutionized by AGD with the RT valve....

AGD took huge risks. They spent a fortune and alot of time developing the RT (Classic) which at the time was unusable because it required high pressure air at a time when there was only CO2, and everyone was sceptical of the safety of HPA thus it was never allowed anywhere near a field. AGD managed to push HPA into the industry and all the highend marers would have never been without this gambit by AGD.....

[nevtangle]

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.
So you're telling me that milling off more aluminum each year is revolutioary?

Are you saying that each year the ion shoots faster?

Making something cheaper isn't revolutionary in my mind.

[Tao]

The mini has 3 new patents for it's design. Smart parts doesn't have a patent like the one you mentioned above. Thats way to broad. That would be like toyota having a patent on cars that run off fuel.

Well that may be true, however as far as I know the mini uses the same technology for the trigger as the emag, and SP threatened the emag as infringing.

[cyberave68]

The mini has 3 new patents for it's design. Smart parts doesn't have a patent like the one you mentioned above. Thats way to broad. That would be like toyota having a patent on cars that run off fuel.
Yea i'd say your right on that but i dont have a copy of it. It is pretty broad and has run alot of small marker maker's out of buisness... I can only go from the other forums at hand on that disscution, as I didnt understand all the legal mumbo-jumbo to read and understand it... Yes i also mention the Mini as one of the new companys that did somethihg new but thats about it....

[speed_ga]

So you're telling me that milling off more aluminum each year is revolutioary?

Are you saying that each year the ion shoots faster?

Making something cheaper isn't revolutionary in my mind.

what i'm saying is that today's current and new products all have made drastic changes in paintball. The ion made it possible for poorer people to get into the sport and have a good quality gun that has more bps than what people had avalible before for that price range of 200.00. I should know because my first gun was a spyder tl plus. Even though I thought the world of it...playing against shockers, automags, angels, and autocockers...I was definatley outdated with my type of gun at the time(2001). Making something cheaper is revolutionary because it opens the doors to more people. It has helped the sport of paintball become more popular. Why do think the Model "T" was so popular? It was a revolutionary car because it was priced to sell. People saw the price and ditched there horse and buggy. Then cars became the main choice for transportation.

[cyberave68]

what i'm saying is that today's current and new products all have made drastic changes in paintball. The ion made it possible for poorer people to get into the sport and have a good quality gun that has more bps than what people had avalible before for that price range of 200.00. I should know because my first gun was a spyder tl plus. Even though I thought the world of it...playing against shockers, automags, angels, and autocockers...I was definatley outdated with my type of gun at the time(2001). Making something cheaper is revolutionary because it opens the doors to more people. It has helped the sport of paintball become more popular. Why do think the Model "T" was so popular? It was a revolutionary car because it was priced to sell. People saw the price and ditched there horse and buggy. Then cars became the main choice for transportation.
I have to say you have some good analogies for things…

[nevtangle]

what i'm saying is that today's current and new products all have made drastic changes in paintball. The ion made it possible for poorer people to get into the sport and have a good quality gun that has more bps than what people had avalible before for that price range of 200.00. I should know because my first gun was a spyder tl plus. Even though I thought the world of it...playing against shockers, automags, angels, and autocockers...I was definatley outdated with my type of gun at the time(2001). Making something cheaper is revolutionary because it opens the doors to more people. It has helped the sport of paintball become more popular. Why do think the Model "T" was so popular? It was a revolutionary car because it was priced to sell. People saw the price and ditched there horse and buggy. Then cars became the main choice for transportation.
Ok, I can agree w/ you on that...

[geekwarrior]

what i'm saying is that today's current and new products all have made drastic changes in paintball. The ion made it possible for poorer people to get into the sport and have a good quality gun that has more bps than what people had avalible before for that price range of 200.00. I should know because my first gun was a spyder tl plus. Even though I thought the world of it...playing against shockers, automags, angels, and autocockers...I was definatley outdated with my type of gun at the time(2001). Making something cheaper is revolutionary because it opens the doors to more people. It has helped the sport of paintball become more popular. Why do think the Model "T" was so popular? It was a revolutionary car because it was priced to sell. People saw the price and ditched there horse and buggy. Then cars became the main choice for transportation.


any other examples besides reducing costs? whats new and revolutionary since, say 3-5 yrs ago?

[Ninjeff]

Out of sheer curiosity, what the heck are you even doing here Speed_ga?
I dont mean to be rude, but, really...why would you come to an AUTOMAG site and try to convince people that AUTOMAGS are out dated? That seems a bit absurd to me.


Anyway, you seem to mistake "revolutionary design" in new markers for "change"


Making something lighter CANNOT revolutionize a sport. Period. It can change it...but REVOLUTION it is not.

Taking the sport from 12 grams, to constant air IS revolutionary. It allows people to play in a TOTALLY different way than before. Putting HPA on a gun is REVOLUTIONARY as it opens up the whole industry to making markers work differently. AGD invented some items that had to be out lawed from tourneys because they changed the game so much.

Ive been playing a long time, and i find it curious that there still isnt a marker as easy to use, as reliable, and as easy to tear down as an Automag. But then again, thats all opinion.....

So here is something. If mags are so out dated, how is it that they HAVENT come out with anything new in YEARS....and yet, are still making a profit with the same ol' "outdated" tech?? Year in, and year out AGD makes money.

Thats not opinion, or in the past. Thats FACT my friend.

I would love to see Dye, Smarty Parts or a host of other manufacturers stop updating thier product line...and still stay in buisness. I wanna see it. For the same reason i want to see Santa Claus....because i love witnessing the impossible, and i just dont think it could happen.

OH! And for the record, i have an E-Mag. And its faster than damn near anything else ive ever seen. Bring your new fangled electro and i'll bring an X-Valve......we'll see who is faster.

[The Obvious]

OH! And for the record, i have an E-Mag. And its faster than damn near anything else ive ever seen. Bring your new fangled electro and i'll bring an X-Valve......we'll see who is faster.
What makes it faster?
The noid limits it's ROF, By the way.
Mean to say, whoever can pull the trigger faster?

[Ninjeff]

No. Sorry. I should have been more specific.

Seeing who could pull the trigger faster puts the "human" element into the equation. Talking pure marker tech, jack the gun up on auto as fast as it will go, and i'll do the same with the X-Valved Emag, and see who gets more shots in. Just going on marker TECH, as far as i know the X-Valve is still the faster valve in the industry.


And actually, the NOID is a good point.....good point. Hadnt thought of that.

Right.

I'd use a mech mag then.

[The Obvious]

No. Sorry. I should have been more specific.

Seeing who could pull the trigger faster puts the "human" element into the equation. Talking pure marker tech, jack the gun up on auto as fast as it will go, and i'll do the same with the X-Valved Emag, and see who gets more shots in. Just going on marker TECH, as far as i know the X-Valve is still the faster valve in the industry.


And actually, the NOID is a good point.....good point. Hadnt thought of that.

Right.

I'd use a mech mag then.


Uhm. Putting both on full auto, the Emag will still be limited to the ballpark area of 22-23bps.

MECH, without the noid limitation, and I agree with you.

(I think you meant to say MECH, instead of TECH, right?)

[speed_ga]

Out of sheer curiosity, what the heck are you even doing here Speed_ga?
I dont mean to be rude, but, really...why would you come to an AUTOMAG site and try to convince people that AUTOMAGS are out dated? That seems a bit absurd to me.


Anyway, you seem to mistake "revolutionary design" in new markers for "change"


Making something lighter CANNOT revolutionize a sport. Period. It can change it...but REVOLUTION it is not.

Taking the sport from 12 grams, to constant air IS revolutionary. It allows people to play in a TOTALLY different way than before. Putting HPA on a gun is REVOLUTIONARY as it opens up the whole industry to making markers work differently. AGD invented some items that had to be out lawed from tourneys because they changed the game so much.

Ive been playing a long time, and i find it curious that there still isnt a marker as easy to use, as reliable, and as easy to tear down as an Automag. But then again, thats all opinion.....

So here is something. If mags are so out dated, how is it that they HAVENT come out with anything new in YEARS....and yet, are still making a profit with the same ol' "outdated" tech?? Year in, and year out AGD makes money.

Thats not opinion, or in the past. Thats FACT my friend.

I would love to see Dye, Smarty Parts or a host of other manufacturers stop updating thier product line...and still stay in buisness. I wanna see it. For the same reason i want to see Santa Claus....because i love witnessing the impossible, and i just dont think it could happen.

OH! And for the record, i have an E-Mag. And its faster than damn near anything else ive ever seen. Bring your new fangled electro and i'll bring an X-Valve......we'll see who is faster.

why am I here? I play paintball, I have owned a mag, and this forum is for paintball talk.

If they are making such a profit....why are they raising prices
Dye and Smart Parts are two companies that have taken something good and made it better. That is why they keep updating there product line and suppying the customer with new improved markers, masks, and so on.... The emag is not the fastest marker on the market....sorry to inform you of that. As for the meet with the xvalve....i'm there. Do you live close to fayetteville, ga? We can tape it and everything:) I personally would like to see the look on your face when I empty my hopper and I still see balls in your hopper. Sure AGD is making profit....but are they increasing profit since they were in there prime a few years ago....NO Thats why they have to do small production runs just to keep them supplied for a few more years. It's not just how fast a gun is, it's also how they feel these days. Try the Ul frame dye has come out and come back to me. Can you adjust your trigger in 3 different ways? I can:) I can adjust the stiffness of the spring, forward travel and back travel. The trigger even has a bearing in it to make it ohh so smooth.

Just realize that the automag is a good gun and will always be decent...but match it up with todays markers and it won't compare.

[Ninjeff]

I did, indeed, mix my words. I meant to illustrate the speed of the x-valve.


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[The Obvious]

I miss Zak a great deal.
The last time i called him, he was still in pain from his leg injury.
I hope he's doing alright.

[Tao]

What makes it faster?
The noid limits it's ROF, By the way.
Mean to say, whoever can pull the trigger faster?

The noid may limit its rate of fire but ONLY limits it down to mid 20s in BPS. The trigger system is allows youto shoot faster with hybrid mode than any othr gun out there.

[AmyM]

speed ga quote:
"We can tape it and everything I personally would like to see the look on your face when I empty my hopper and I still see balls in your hopper."
Are you for real? :rolleyes:
That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.
Let this thread die here...PLEASE! I can't take anymore...
Amy

[robnix]

why am I here? I play paintball, I have owned a mag, and this forum is for paintball talk.

If they are making such a profit....why are they raising prices
Dye and Smart Parts are two companies that have taken something good and made it better. That is why they keep updating there product line and suppying the customer with new improved markers, masks, and so on.... The emag is not the fastest marker on the market....sorry to inform you of that. As for the meet with the xvalve....i'm there. Do you live close to fayetteville, ga? We can tape it and everything:) I personally would like to see the look on your face when I empty my hopper and I still see balls in your hopper. Sure AGD is making profit....but are they increasing profit since they were in there prime a few years ago....NO Thats why they have to do small production runs just to keep them supplied for a few more years. It's not just how fast a gun is, it's also how they feel these days. Try the Ul frame dye has come out and come back to me. Can you adjust your trigger in 3 different ways? I can:) I can adjust the stiffness of the spring, forward travel and back travel. The trigger even has a bearing in it to make it ohh so smooth.

Just realize that the automag is a good gun and will always be decent...but match it up with todays markers and it won't compare.

Thank you for reminding us of our place. I'll take my mags and crawl back in the hole of obsolescence where I belong I guess....





















Oh who am I kidding...

Seriously, there's really nothing that most markers offer these days that make my toes tingle enough to get me away from my Emag, Tac One, and the T-Boarded Hyperframed Karta project I have going on right now.

Smooth trigger? My Emag trigger pull is shorter and smoother than any other marker I've tried. With the XMOD software on it, I get all the ramping modes needed, plus dwell and fix adjustments to really make it sing. It's a bit heavy, but it'll always shoot since unlike any other marker on the market, I can flip it into mech mode at will. Then again, it's still only about 2 lb 8 oz, so it's not like I'm lugging around a Tippy...

The Tac One I have is simply the best mech marker available. It's reliable, fast, and with the ULT in it has an incredibly light pull for a mech. Not to mention with a Q Loader on it it's low profile and makes it perfect for woods/scenerio games. Plus, Kruger's wood grips really make it a beautiful addition to my collection.

The Hyperframed/TBoarded/Karta project that I have going on will be super light. The last RT/Pro bodied mag like this I built weighed 1lb. 13oz. with a Stiffi on it, this one should be about the same. My favorite moment with the last one was when a ref asked me what kind of Schlocker it was. When I handed it to him and he realized it was a 'Mag, his response was that he'd never seen a mag that was that small, light, and fast before. :rofl: We held it up to a Schlocker, and found that it was smaller and had a lower profile...go figure. The Hyperframe with Lukes trigger was already fast, the next one with the TBoard should be as fast, and will ramp if you want it to...

So tell me again, what do new markers offer me that my 'Mags don't?

[Thotograph]

Wasn't this thread meant to help Rafizz with getting his RT to a level he's happy with? What happend man, any word? Had any good pball outings with the RT lately?

Speed ga, I think effective marketing has enslaved you and your thoughts. None of the so called "Revolutionary" innovations you've mentioned are even remotely revolutionary. Low pressure has been around since there was air pressure propeling paintballs, hell if you want to call something revolutionary look at the first mass produced spooler valve, the nova 700... that was a revolutionary product. It also sounded like a wet fart when it fired a paintball. The mag can be just as light as any other lightweight gun, and yet for the mag it is done without sacrificing it's rugged durability. Every gun makes a valiant effort to claim these so called "revolutionary" traits, but what, if anything has changed?

I applaud the marketing think tank that has blinded you from the truth :clap:

The point is you need to see that it's the skills which the user emplores that make him a good player. The equipment is simply there to allow you to perform at whatever level you wish to. Sure, a pmr rail may be an adequate gun to play some fast paced airball tourney until it's not cool anymore to do so, but if that's not what Rafizz or someone else has in mind then that's their own inclination. Who wants to argue with that? I think it's pointless. Are buying something better, or just a boost in self esteem? They all do practically the same thing, until they break... and then they don't do anything.

Do your research before you criticize AGD, look at the market, what else is their a need for? All of their stuff works, their upgrades actually do something to improve the performance, and they are surviving and staying afloat in todays hostile waters. Smart parts patent won't last forever considering it's so vague and non-descript. An electro pneumatically operated paintball gun is a concept, and AGD like many others has their own unique design... SP simply wants to patent the wheel. AGD has decided that (most likely) the cost of legal fallout doesn't outweigh the potential earnings enough for them to get involved. I think it's a major bummer but I don't fault them for their decision when there's far more sinister parties to blame.

Like my man Chuck-D said:

"Don't believe the hype."

Or wait, was that Flav?

[ProblemKinder]

The trigger even has a bearing in it to make it ohh so smooth.

http://www.themagsmith.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=74
http://www.themagsmith.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=4

[ProblemKinder]

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.

New: other than the former or the old

Revolutionary:radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.


making a marker slightly lighter than last years model is hardly revolutionary. :spit_take it might be "new" but it's not "radically new". same goes for all your above examples.

[The Obvious]

New: other than the former or the old

Revolutionary:radically new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.


making a marker slightly lighter than last years model is hardly revolutionary. :spit_take it might be "new" but it's not "radically new". same goes for all your above examples.

Then you'd agree that the X valve is not revolutionary?

[Ninjeff]

Sure would. But the design of the "mag valves" in general, was.

At least as far as i know.

[Thotograph]

The Xvalve was just a good idea that was long coming... however I agree with Jeff that the original RT design is still revolutionary... it'll always be ahead of it's time (imo). The X-valve is yet another indication that AGD commited to revising their products to make them viable in todays market without relying on gimmicks to keep them afloat.

[olinar]

i dont mean to rag on anyone but these internet fights are retarded especially when you guys are arguing over something that is chosen by preference.i mean anyone of use could go buy a new marker but why, they are all used for the same purpose and if what you have works why change it?

anyways im sure im not the only one wondering what happened with Raffizz and his marker of choice.

[athomas]

The mechanical mags aren't meant to compete with the electros. They were designed to compete with the other mechanical guns in the market and are still considered to be the best, most reliable mechanical marker out there. If I go to a big scenario game, its my retromag I take, not my electronic gun.

The emag was great in its day. It still competes. AGD chose not to continue the advancement towards electronic enhancements until the legal stuff got worked out. The biggest part of the market is with mechanical markers. That is where AGD chose to market their product, with less chance of legal interference.

[ProblemKinder]

Then you'd agree that the X valve is not revolutionary?

yes. the RT valve was revolutionary, the X valve was new. :D

[Tao]

Sure would. But the design of the "mag valves" in general, was.

At least as far as i know.

Yeah the classic ws revolutionary since it incorportated a regulator. The RT was revolutionary since it had such huge performance and hell it actually shot the balls at a higher velocity the faster you pulled the trigger!

[Tao]

i dont mean to rag on anyone but these internet fights are retarded especially when you guys are arguing over something that is chosen by preference.i mean anyone of use could go buy a new marker but why, they are all used for the same purpose and if what you have works why change it?

anyways im sure im not the only one wondering what happened with Raffizz and his marker of choice.

I think he got what he needed out of this forum. Most people were trying to push a ULT on him anyway which he can't use in his gun without some cutom work. I PMed him just to put that straight but he hasn't responded so he may not have been here for a few days.

[speed_ga]

All the so called upgrades for the mag have been around for forever. Why don't these upgrades come stock on the automags now? Tell me that. Even the most basic automag should at least be vert feed and have cocker threads. Why isn't AGD improving there products. I mean it's so hard to find mag threaded barrels these days...

[Ninjeff]

So, let me get it all straight.

The only thing you're upset about is the span of time between AGD putting out new parts. So, becaus ethere havent been any new developments in a few years, that MUST mean that the products arent as good.

Is that the logic?

Seriously, im curious.

[speed_ga]

the automag is a great marker(PERIOD...NUFF SAID). It makes me so mad that AGD and the people behind AGD are backing down from offering new designs and not showing the world what a great marker it is. Once you get big, other companies like smart parts are going to bug you with issues...but you have to overcome that and go around it. AGD could do that...but no! they want to stay in there little fox hole and hide. They want to mark there prices up, not produce anything new or improved their products. How hard would it be to advertise a lil more, change the body style a bit, and so on. I wish AGD would sell the company to someone that is hard working and has ideas for the future of AGD. I refuse to support a company that is headingin a dead end direction.

[nevtangle]

All the so called upgrades for the mag have been around for forever. Why don't these upgrades come stock on the automags now? Tell me that. Even the most basic automag should at least be vert feed and have cocker threads. Why isn't AGD improving there products. I mean it's so hard to find mag threaded barrels these days...
They do come w/ these upgrades.

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=368&categoryID=79

http://www.themagsmith.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5

You should find something better to do. You obviously don't know what you are talking about and are here trying to start trouble. Maybe find a girlfriend or something that better occupies your time.

[speed_ga]

So, let me get it all straight.

The only thing you're upset about is the span of time between AGD putting out new parts. So, becaus ethere havent been any new developments in a few years, that MUST mean that the products arent as good.

Is that the logic?

Seriously, im curious.

Span of time....how about once every two years....lol AGD can't even do that. The products AGD produces are outdated....they are good...but outdated like I said. What if AGD invented the hat Christopher Columbus wore. And at the time everyone liked it, like the automag.
<a href="http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=columbaswn3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6825/columbaswn3.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a> <pic of hat
But AGD never improved it....now would you want everyone to wear this type of hat across the world for years and years and more years? No....

[speed_ga]

They do come w/ these upgrades.

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=368&categoryID=79

http://www.themagsmith.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5

You should find something better to do. You obviously don't know what you are talking about and are here trying to start trouble. Maybe find a girlfriend or something that better occupies your time.


what i'm saying is that why are they even still selling right feeds, and powerfeeds....? You shouldn't have to pay more to get the vert feed feature. It should come standard. Even the most basic gun like the Viewloaders that are sold at wal-mart come standard with a vert feed.....

[Ninjeff]

No offense, but of all your analogies that one is the worst one by far.

Hats have little to nothing to do with this. One is fashion, and the other is utility.

I would wager another analogy:

Lets say AGD invented the Chevy small block engine. And, in its day it ruled the streets.

They leave the design as is, and dont update it...for years. Would that mean the engine is out dated? Obsolete? Does it need to be updated? There are thousands of car and hot rod junkies that beg to differ. And the great thing is, that engine can still spank alot of engines today. If it was outdated and obsolete, why would so many people buy them?


The thing is, if you design something right the FIRST time, you dont need to change it a whole bunch later. Mags got the workings of the gun right when they made the valve design they made. They havent updated to guts in years...why? Because alot of the industry is still catching up to AGD. A soon as someone makes a gun as simple, reliable, upgradable, and maintainable as an Automag.

By the way, if your electronics go down on your super electro gun, can you switch to mech mode?

I can. :ninja:

[Ninjeff]

what i'm saying is that why are they even still selling right feeds, and powerfeeds....? You shouldn't have to pay more to get the vert feed feature. It should come standard. Even the most basic gun like the Viewloaders that are sold at wal-mart come standard with a vert feed.....


Is there something WRONG with power feeds? Last i checked they worked great.

[Hexis]

Hats have little to nothing to do with this. One is fashion, and the other is utility.


Well there's your problem right there. You think trends in paintball are not fashion.

[Ninjeff]

Well there's your problem right there. You think trends in paintball are not fashion.



Silly me! How could i forget?

[Tao]

All the so called upgrades for the mag have been around for forever. Why don't these upgrades come stock on the automags now? Tell me that. Even the most basic automag should at least be vert feed and have cocker threads. Why isn't AGD improving there products. I mean it's so hard to find mag threaded barrels these days...

The don't come stock so you can have a choice. The most basic automag CAN be vert feed and cocker threaded, you have the choice. They are imporving these products. You have a choice to be lightweigth and take cocker threads, or go for the old school look. You can have a standard grip, inteli grip, or y grip. How many guns come with a choice of grip frame???? Sure it is hard to find twistlock barrels these days, but the old style is an OPTION (The stock barrel is all you need anyway from my experience)

All but the pro classic come standard with an x valve which has the anti chop bolt and the best valve system in existance. This seems like an emprovement to me. The ONLY thing that guns theses days have over an automag are anti chop eyes and fancy software which are basically redundant. When using my x mag I have never had the level 10 bolt or the eyes need to kick in. Unless I was an idiot and didn't turn on my hopper or replace its batteries.

Heck you get more variety with choice with AGD when you buy a new gun.

[SCpoloRicker]

I would wager another analogy:

Lets say AGD invented the Chevy small block engine. And, in its day it ruled the streets.

TK has an alternate login??? :)

/pretty sure it was AGD that first made this analogy, no?

[Ninjeff]

TK has an alternate login??? :)

/pretty sure it was AGD that first made this analogy, no?


Really? Wow.

HA! Thats pretty cool. I was going to use a "hemi" as an example, but they stopped making those for awhile, and brought back a new "updated" version.....so i used the small block.

[Hexis]

All but the pro classic come standard with an x valve which has the anti chop bolt and the best valve system in existance. This seems like an emprovement to me. The ONLY thing that guns theses days have over an automag are anti chop eyes and fancy software which are basically redundant.

Depends on your definition of "best". For me there are two critical factors: Reliability and Consistency. Some of the other aspects: Speed, Weight and Size are all IMHO fully under control. The Classic and RT/XValve are two of the most reliable designs available. The problem with the RT/XValve is that it gave up some consistency for speed. The recharging off unregulated input is a great idea, but does have it's cost in shot to shot consistency.

So, there are other things that other designs have going for them over the Classic or RT/XValve. One of the design goals for the Mini was consistency.

[zenderfall]

ok to answer your question.

Lightness of paintball markers
Speed of paintball markers
Paintball prices
Running of markers at really low pressure.

All the above have revolutionized paintball in some way.


Revolutionary guns: Mini, Ion, Rail all have performance of high end, high priced markers at the low cost of 450.00 and under.

Paintball has come a long way since the automag and it seems as if automag sorda got stuck and decided to stop producing products. I'd rather a company die trying than to be a coward like AGD.

Sorry, my friend, but the revolutionary things in paintball are:
CO2 tanks, referred in the early days as "constant air" (late 1980's)
Nitrogen (pioneered by AGD)
agitated loaders
Electric triggers

All the things you wrote about are just results of industrialization, mass assembly, and simplification. They are HARDLY revolutionary, and are concepts that date back to the early 1900's with the mass assembly of the automobile.

The CO2 tank revolutionized paintball because people no longer had to carry numerous 12-grams with them and semi-autos were now effective. Without the constant air supply, semi-auto markers would outshoot their air-supplies and the reloading of air-cartridges would be too much of a drawback. Semi-autos would not be possible today were it not for some genius to get a CO2 tank and modify it for paintball use. Constant air CO2 tanks were revolutionary.

Nitrogen provided fast-recharging, consistency, and resistance to ambient cold temperatures. It allowed semi-autos to fire more than 10-BPS consistently without shoot-down and companies no longer had to fight freezing, liquid-air changes and other undesirable CO2 properties. Supply companies need only machines to charge compressed air tanks and not supplies of bottled CO2. Nitrogen was revolutionary.

Agitated loaders reloaded guns as fast as their rates-of-fire allowed them to shoot. Without agitated loaders, we'd be stuck at a very low number for ROF. Either that or we'd have to have two-man teams with us shaking large hoppers in order to get ROF at a decent rate. With the advent of agitated loaders came also developments for the warp-feed and other designs to feed paintballs faster. Agitated loaders are revolutionary.

Electric triggers let computers fire for the players so they didn't have to work so hard to get the rates-of-fire they desired. They merged electronic with mechanical. The computer helps to fire the paintball gun while the player plays paintball. Electric Triggers are revolutionary.

WHAT IN GOD'S NAME DO Lightness, Speed, prices, and Running of markers at really low pressure have that make them revolutionary? JESUS. So your gun is lighter. It's cheaper. It's designers got more efficient with the air. These concepts are true for cars, planes, iPods, phones, Nintendos, just as they are for Paintball. They are not revolutionary concepts-they are progressions of industrialization and capitalism. You might as well say today's computers are cheaper, lighter, and faster than yesterday's computers. Are they "revolutionary" because of that?

So before you start talking about how revolutionary something is, do yourself a big favor and look the word up and find out what it means before you use it.

Paintball has not come a long way since the Automag. They still have air supplies, use air-pressure to fire, and have hoppers fed mostly by gravity. Paintballs are still spherical shaped. They still use biodegradable color dyes. Paintball guns have "sorda" gotten cheaper, and lighter but, as I said before, not technologically revolutionary.

[ProblemKinder]

All the so called upgrades for the mag have been around for forever. Why don't these upgrades come stock on the automags now? Tell me that. Even the most basic automag should at least be vert feed and have cocker threads. Why isn't AGD improving there products. I mean it's so hard to find mag threaded barrels these days...

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=368&categoryID=79
http://www.themagsmith.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=6
http://www.tunamart.com/?c=47&PHPSESSID=f6219b8948d53ec878ec8ba835816424

these are the 3 most popular sites used to purchase a mag, one being from AGD directly. they all offer guns that come STOCK with vert feed, and cocker threads. one site has the OPTION to purchase a minimag, but other than that, they all come stock with what you deem to be sooo important.

the most base mag, is probably the minimag, or the classic 68 which when they were first built, cocker threads and vert feeds weren't popular, that's why the most basic mag won't have them.

[ProblemKinder]

TK has an alternate login??? :)

/pretty sure it was AGD that first made this analogy, no?

if ninjeff starts talking about nascar, then we KNOW it's TK in disguise! :clap:

[Raffizzz]

I think he got what he needed out of this forum. Most people were trying to push a ULT on him anyway which he can't use in his gun without some cutom work. I PMed him just to put that straight but he hasn't responded so he may not have been here for a few days.

Sorry guyzzz I was out of town. I'm trying ot catch up with this thread. almost done reading it. BTW just got my intelliframe Today, and the lever 10 last week. :bounce: :bounce: ,

[trevorjk]

I think he got what he needed out of this forum. Most people were trying to push a ULT on him anyway which he can't use in his gun without some cutom work. I PMed him just to put that straight but he hasn't responded so he may not have been here for a few days.


i also PM'd him, now im going to walk him through setting up his LX :p

[Ninjeff]

if ninjeff starts talking about nascar, then we KNOW it's TK in disguise! :clap:


:rofl:

Nope...no nascar for me. Or mustache. Cant be TK without the 'stache. :ninja:

[Tao]

Depends on your definition of "best". For me there are two critical factors: Reliability and Consistency. Some of the other aspects: Speed, Weight and Size are all IMHO fully under control. The Classic and RT/XValve are two of the most reliable designs available. The problem with the RT/XValve is that it gave up some consistency for speed. The recharging off unregulated input is a great idea, but does have it's cost in shot to shot consistency.

So, there are other things that other designs have going for them over the Classic or RT/XValve. One of the design goals for the Mini was consistency.

With a good barrel to paint match I get a consistency of +/_ 5fps tops which I don't find to be that much different.

[Hexis]

With a good barrel to paint match I get a consistency of +/_ 5fps tops which I don't find to be that much different.

I much prefer the +/- 1 fps of a couple of my other guns over the same +/- 5 fps my emag sees. I think the most consistent I ever got on one of my mags was the minimag with a Whispering Death EC (who remembers those?) on a 20oz remote CO2 tank. That was +/- 1 in short bursts. It did have all the not so fun CO2 issues.

[Thotograph]

Ninjeff, maybe you could be the anti-tk and talk about F1... Lewis Hamilton is doing great! I hope he wins again this weekend. He's a phenom...

Although I imagine TK is an F1 fan too. I remember the old vids where TK was talking about how the crown point barrel was cut to the same kind of spec that the F1 cars use for ducts that dont create drag...

How'd the install go Rafizz?

[Tao]

I much prefer the +/- 1 fps of a couple of my other guns over the same +/- 5 fps my emag sees. I think the most consistent I ever got on one of my mags was the minimag with a Whispering Death EC (who remembers those?) on a 20oz remote CO2 tank. That was +/- 1 in short bursts. It did have all the not so fun CO2 issues.

Unfortunately it is hard to really see how consistent a mag is since it fluxuates so much with single shots (when chronoing). I always wanted to know what it does in a string, but it can't be that bad since I haven't noticed shots going any farther than the others.

[Ninjeff]

Ninjeff, maybe you could be the anti-tk and talk about F1... Lewis Hamilton is doing great! I hope he wins again this weekend. He's a phenom...

Although I imagine TK is an F1 fan too. I remember the old vids where TK was talking about how the crown point barrel was cut to the same kind of spec that the F1 cars use for ducts that dont create drag...

How'd the install go Rafizz?


Given my druthers i would talk for hours, and at great length, about MotoGP racing.

Now THAT is racing.

[Hexis]

Unfortunately it is hard to really see how consistent a mag is since it fluxuates so much with single shots (when chronoing).

Funny, I see that as the very definition of inconsistency.


I always wanted to know what it does in a string, but it can't be that bad since I haven't noticed shots going any farther than the others.

That's great, after a while in a long string, shot-to-shot consistency improves. That does not help for a short string of shots, where accuracy (aka consistency) is most important. If it's not every shot, it's not consistent.

[Tao]

Funny, I see that as the very definition of inconsistency.



When you are chronoing using the method to chrono an RT, since slight variations in the speed which you pull the trigger simulating rapid fire, changes the velocity so much. Anyway without simulating rapid fire you will shoot slow, but consistent.

[Hexis]

I'm very aware of the chrono-ing procedure for an RT based Mag. I'm also aware of why the valve ramps velocity. My ReTro valve has a serial number just over 500. I have used it and other Mags for a while now. Under the best circumstances none are anywhere near as consistent as some of my other gear, both electro and mech. Shot to shot consistency is simply not a strength of the RT design.

[athomas]

I'm very aware of the chrono-ing procedure for an RT based Mag. I'm also aware of why the valve ramps velocity. My ReTro valve has a serial number just over 500. I have used it and other Mags for a while now. Under the best circumstances none are anywhere near as consistent as some of my other gear, both electro and mech. Shot to shot consistency is simply not a strength of the RT design.Both my emag and retro mag have great shot to shot consistency over the chrono. They are usually within +/- 2 fps.

My classic mag is even better. It is usually bang on every time. The only time it fluctuates I suspect is when an inconsistent ball is shot.

[Hexis]

If you honestly think a RT valve only ramps 2fps during a string, you are measuring it wrong.

Face facts, the RT valve is not perfect. The design has a lot of great features. Consistency is not one of them. I'm not trying to say there is a perfect design. There are however, other designs that are significantly more consistent.

[athomas]

If you honestly think a RT valve only ramps 2fps during a string, you are measuring it wrong.

Face facts, the RT valve is not perfect. The design has a lot of great features. Consistency is not one of them. I'm not trying to say there is a perfect design. There are however, other designs that are significantly more consistent.No, I didn't mention shooting a string. It shoots single shots with repeatable consistency. It ramps in velocity like a retro vavle is known to do, but in rapid fire situations it doesn't matter, because at that time you can follow the string of shots.

[Hexis]

So you are saying it's consistent if you shoot single shots slowly? Or that the shots are consistent during a string, after the velocity ramps (and that's a different stable velocity than the single shots)?

Guess what, that's inconsistent.

Due to the valve design, an RT is not consistent. If it were, we would not need to chrono with a special procedure to simulate the velocity ramp during rapid fire.

WRT consistency there are significantly better valve designs that are consistent during single shots, during bursts and strings.

[cyberave68]

WOW where has this thread gone???? :confused:

Raffizzz hows the upgrades coming along??? Any pics of the new and improved RT???

[C.J.]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I speak very highly of my Automag RT, and
yesterday I showed it to my co workers, and today I overheard them
talking and laughing about it, insulting it by saying that it has passed
it's time!!!!, I know this classic piece is old, but is it that bad?
recently I asked for upgrade info, and you suggested to get the level 10
bolt upgrade, and that should do it for the RT. At this point I'm so
mad, that next time I go out paintballing with this guys, I want to make
a point. What else can I do to make this up to date. I'm in the Los
Angeles area, if anybody can help my customize it, hit me up.

Thank You
Raffi.

Raffi,

Would you laugh at someone for driving a Shelby Cobra? I doubt it - it's a classic and no slouch on performance.

The Automag is like a Shelby Cobra. Only an ignoramus laughs at a classic.

[athomas]

So you are saying it's consistent if you shoot single shots slowly? Or that the shots are consistent during a string, after the velocity ramps (and that's a different stable velocity than the single shots)?

Guess what, that's inconsistent.

Due to the valve design, an RT is not consistent. If it were, we would not need to chrono with a special procedure to simulate the velocity ramp during rapid fire.

WRT consistency there are significantly better valve designs that are consistent during single shots, during bursts and strings.If I shoot single shots, every shot is near identical to the previous shot. Its the single shots that matter. The one shot, one kill. That is where consistency matters. As long as I know exactly where my shot is going based on the trajectory I have chosen because I know my gun is going to react exactly as it alway has, I will make my shot. That is consistency.

[Hexis]

If I shoot single shots, every shot is near identical to the previous shot. Its the single shots that matter. The one shot, one kill. That is where consistency matters. As long as I know exactly where my shot is going based on the trajectory I have chosen because I know my gun is going to react exactly as it alway has, I will make my shot. That is consistency.

No, that is consistency if...

That's consistency under controlled circumstances.

You go ahead and believe that the RT is the greatest thing ever in all ways. I'll give up on trying to point out some areas where the design is not perfect. You go ahead and live the delusion. I'll continue to keep my mind open.

[athomas]

If shooting in a game situation is controlled situations, then what more could you ask for? And yes, I would put the retro/RT mag up against any mechanical marker on the planet.

[Hexis]

*Sigh*

I suspect you play paintball in a very different way from me and the people I play with. I find uses for single shots, bursts and long stings. I also find uses for both mech and electro guns. I like tools that work well in all situations.

[athomas]

When I aim at a target, I usually hit it. Is there any other way to play?

My style of play is aggressive. I play Xball on the east coast in the AXBL. The retro mag doesn't provide the kind of 15bps break shooting that I need as a back player. Its not made for that. Thats where I use my Predator Angel. When I play scenario ball or general games, I use the retro-mag due to its reliability and consistency. My Angel is consistent too. It just doesn't lend itself to scenario type play quite as well.

[Siress]

That's because you haven't put a predator in your retro mag... :ninja: Do it.

[RogueFactor]

When I aim at a target, I usually hit it. Is there any other way to play?

:hail:

[Hexis]

If you fire the RT while the air chamber is hot (high pressure) your velocity will be higher. If you wait, the air chamber will cool and velocity will drop noticeably. The faster you fire your RT the more consistent your velocity will be.

From: http://www.airgun.com/rtchrono.shtml

That's inconsistency.

Sure you can avoid it if you either shoot slowly all the time, or never stop firing.

[Ninjeff]

When I aim at a target, I usually hit it. Is there any other way to play?

My style of play is aggressive. I play Xball on the east coast in the AXBL. The retro mag doesn't provide the kind of 15bps break shooting that I need as a back player. Its not made for that. Thats where I use my Predator Angel. When I play scenario ball or general games, I use the retro-mag due to its reliability and consistency. My Angel is consistent too. It just doesn't lend itself to scenario type play quite as well.



Thats why i bought an EMag. :ninja:

;)

[Tao]

From: http://www.airgun.com/rtchrono.shtml

That's inconsistency.

Sure you can avoid it if you either shoot slowly all the time, or never stop firing.

If you set the input pressure to 650 or so you will get no velocity climb. This is the middle recommended pressure from the RT manual.

[commrad]

I get laughed at all the time, especially with my classic mag with, it has a black boo yaah, sanded (to be painted) classic body, an old diamond labs 8 hole reg that has faded to a purple color and a 8 inch armoson rifled barrel that has faded to a weird blue color. it shoots 5 bps reliably and no one laughs at the end of the game, in the rare instance they do I break out the X vlave mag with a hyper frame a T board with a cheetah halo :D then they cry

if they still wana whine about it being electric I throw my chrome 32 deg single trigger frame on and turn the pressure up to 1200 :D by then every one at the field wants to play with it

[Raffizzz]

WOW where has this thread gone???? :confused:

Raffizzz hows the upgrades coming along??? Any pics of the new and improved RT???

I'm done, level 10 is installed, and intelliframe double trigger is also installed, :headbang: I will post pictures Soon.

[Wicked_Silence]

Very nice. I own one of these 'ancient tanks' as alot of the new players around here call em. I'm always being told that I should grab an electro so I can fire more. My response to them is why? With a lvl 10 and the RT effect, I can outshot any of the newer guns out there. Tom Kaye once told a friend of mine at one of the IAO conferences that the RT effect at full auto will do 35 1/2 balls a second, and that is for a pure mechanical gun. No electronics at all. I'd like to see some of the newer guns even approach that amount of firepower without batteries.

[p8ntbal4me]

Drag em to an ao day, every ao day I have been too scares the hell out of refs and players, why? Mags aren't slow, mags aren't old, at tunaball the refs were astonished by how fast some of the mags ripped, mags always turn heads, most people refuse to believe mags have evolved to ule, dw, pnuematic, ult'd, electro'd, monsters, xmags and emags with xmod rip faces, mags aren't the stainless paint blenders anymore, mags are indestructable war machines, from pump, pnue, electro, mech, or EP, mags will continue to turn heads for years to come, because we still have our mags and they aren't going anywhere. Das untermag


Rudz,.... ur my hero! :D